Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I'm not saying that in a negative way, as I'm as die-hard of a GnR and Axl fan as any of you cock-knockers.

But all I'm reading is how Axl keeps fine-tuning and tinkering and adding orchestra and how the songs had an industrial sound and maybe the delay is cuz he's re-tooling them to make them sound modern in 2006 as compared to 2002, etc, etc, etc.

With all that rhetoric . . . the bottom line to it is it feels like people are saying Axl wrote a bunch of songs 10 years ago and has spent a decade working on them. Could this actually be the case?

I have no idea why the delay.  But are these "big guns" the only songs that Axl has left in his arsenal???? He can't just F*CKING release the 14 best songs he has RIGHT NOW, tour, take a break, then write some new songs?

Thats how most bands do it.

I don't know if I'm getting my point across. But when I just read the thread about CD being bigger than Appetite, it just annoyed me. Like Axl's musical career depends on this upcoming album and who cares if it takes him 3 more years to get his masterpiece done.

AN example would be how every time a band puts out an ablum they say "Ya, this is the BEST album we've ever done." Then 2 years from now, they say the same thing about their new ablum. I'd like a reporter to ask "Since you've said that about your last 8 albums, does that mean your first 4 albums actually sucked?"

Some fans have created this aura around Chine Dem and we have no idea about 90% of the songs!!!!

I think Axl could pick out the best 10-15 songs and release it, then write 20 more new songs over the next year or two and release those as well.  Chinese Dem doesn't have to define his career.

Unfortunately the time it took to get Chinese Democracy out is probably gonna define his career.  If it doesn't come out, same thing.

Kayoss is right.  Axl dug himself into a huge hole with CD. Regardless of how good or bad CD is, it will define his career.

I was thinking something along these lines, Groghan.  I'm thinking, once Chinese Democracy DOES come out, NOW WHAT??  25 years for the NEXT album??   ???

Axl doesn't just want to put out an album that sells a lot of copies and gets radio play. He wants to put out an album that will blow everyone away. I remember him saying that his goal with the illusion albums was to bury appitite by releasing something way better. I'm sure he is even more eager to have chinese democracy bury everything gnr has done in the past. He wants this album to make people forget all about the old band and accept the new gnr as the real gnr. Considering how good the old band was, this is something that is not easily done, so as a result it is taking a long time for Axl to produce the product that can do it. Just have a little patience.

I was also thinking, what if/when Chinese Democracy is finished, Axl listens to it, and says, "We need to do it all over again, it can be WAAAYYY better."  The vicious cycle continues...

He doesnt want CD to end up like the Illusions were people call it a masterpiece and Axl says he loves it, and 2 years later its outdated because of grunge and everyone says GNR are uncool. Basically hes afraid of it happening twice.

Good point there jabba... the UYIs were "masterpieces" for a short time.. and now they're just whatever to the public. I believe Axl is trying to create a timeless record.. (dark side of the moon comes to mind..) that people can listen to 30 years from now and go "wow." I could totally be wrong.. but this is what im guessing.

People bash Axl for not putting out a record.. when its clear that the earliest we could have had a record was 1998.. remember.. Tom Z. (?) said "The album the band had in '98 would have been a totally contemperary album".. so if Axl wasn't concerned with eventually being irrelevant.. he probably would have put out a "contemparary" record in '98... instead of giving us something "timeless" in '06... or '07.. or never...

You guys catch my drift? If Axl was just concerned with making a normal good album.. it would have happened a long time ago..

If the album is a success he'll feel justified so it'll take another decade or more to release the new album.

If the album is not a huge success ththen he'll give up the whole thing or will work even more on the next album.

I think weather is good or bad that would be the last GNR album, I had that feeling  :nervous:

Hello everyone,

Long time listner, first time caller :D

One thing that I seem to note from Axl fans is a tendency to put everything on a personal level to him,
What I mean to say is that the album Chinese Democracy as it is now is probably completely new compared
to the "late 90s" edition or even 2002 addition.  Chinese Democracy doesnt come across as an album so much as a project,
while many incarnations of the album may have existed and an increasingly large back catalogue of what could be never realised material
this (I believe) cannot be attributed (at least not fully) to Axl Rose's inability to write/be happy with a good song.

  So much as it can be attributed to continous change in circumstances, without being tied down to specifics since Axl announced chinese democracy, guns & roses split, several new line ups appeared (including among others Zakk Wylde, Navarro(?) etc), legal issues,  Buckethead  left etc.  These are not excuses so much as they are contributions to a continuing problem compiled possibly with some indecision on Axls part.

Nothing new here, just remind people of common held opinion

By the by who do you have to sleep with to see the vma pics  :-*

True. But let's face it, there are too much average songs on Use 1. Use 2 is much better, more bluesy, more sincere. Use 1 sounds metal too me, it's too heavy and overproduced at the same time. I've never liked this album, exept for November Rain (genious), DC, LALD and Coma. The rest is very "clich?". Contrary to Appetite, the hard rocking songs don't sound like Rock, but like Metal. The drums is too loud (izzy was right when he said once Sorum joined th band, GN'R didn't sound like a bluesy based badass Rock n' Roll band like the Stones, but like a heavy-metal one - I remember he said that in an interview) , Slash tone is too heavy (bad mix?), Axl's voice sounds "forced" on a couple of songs, like he voluntary exagerated the tone of his voice "don't dawn meeeeeee" (at the end). All these details hurt the record as a whole.

And One of the best first calls. I don't know about your second call tho.

Hey Welcome to the board Nevesis.  :beer:

And he didn't accomplish that goal. Way more experimental but not way better.

Someone said that Axl is trying to create a timeless record, a masterpiece, something like dark side of the moon. I agree but I think that could be a problem. What I mean is do you think other bands who have created 'Masterpieces' were TRYING to make a masterpiece?? I don't. I think these bands entered the studio and thought let's make a good fucking rock n roll album, and it then became a classic or a masterpiece. If Axl tries too hard I feel it may go the opposite way and sound overporduced etc or it just may never see the light of day at all.

I think Axl is such a perfectionist that hes looking to perfecting this cd to a point the perfection doesnt exist if that makes sence

turns out i can't spell appliged so ill just say thank you

...thank you! ;)

So is this Axl's LAST record? Are we going to have to wait 15 more years after Chinese Democracy for the next one to come out, when he's in his mid to late 50's?

Don't we all believe that Axl can create AMAZING music regardless. Meaning that if CD comes out next year, a 1 year tour, don't we have faith that Axl could sit down and over a six month period come up with an album's worth of quality music?

I don't have any doubt about Axl's songwiting talent? :)
"The Blues" is a proof.

Didn't Dizzy write The Blues?

what? Dizzy wrote the blues? didn't he write just Silkworms?
If Dizzy wrote "The Blues" then the guy is a fucking great songwriter :o

I read somewhere that Dizzy wrote the (piano) music, Axl the lyrics.

BTW as far as I know Dizzy and Chris wrote the music for Silkworms and Axl wrote the lyrics.

However other people here have been telling me Dizzy wrote the lyrics for Silkworms. 
:confused:

Whoever wrote them, I kinda like the words.

The way Axl introduced it makes me believe he didn't contribute much, but i'm probably wrong.

YES, Axl can write a new song, he hasn't forgotten how. When you write the kind of things he does, that's how you think. So it's always there.

yes, good post. when you are a musician that is pretty much everything to you and you can write songs , the ability is there. i've found that inspiration comes at strange times, you can't really force it, especially if you want to write a really good song or something that you are happy with.  a lot of the stuff i've come up with, i wasn't too happy with after a while, i always think it can be better and what not.

I think the new songs we've heard are just a glimpse into what is to come, and hopefully that will be sooner than later.

as for UYI , besides for a few songs that could have probably been put out as bsides or whatnot, i think overall, a lot of the music has stood the test of time. i hadn't heard it in a Long time and it was pretty refreshing when i put it on about a week ago.  Had the set been a bit more focused, i think it would have been better than Appetite, in many ways.  Looks like Axl is about to take it to the next level.. and I really want to see that happen!!

Im glad UYI is so packed. With just three studio albums, we need all the released material we can  :)

NO he cant, his pencil is broken.

what a fuckin thread, I think Axl can write songs and last I checked he was pretty damn good at it.

D I think u missed the point of the post.
Obviously Axl is a killer song writer.
The point is tha teverybody is acting like Chine Dec is going to be some epic masterpiece and who cares if it takes Axl 20 years to get it right, etc, etc, etc.
I just wonder if it's possible for uncle Axl to release the CD, go on tour, then pen 15 new songs for the next album in a NORMAL time frame . . . or, are we going to ahve to wait 15 more years for the follow up?

D pretty much hits the nail on the head. I was thinking of a way to articulate it as well as he did.. but.. it was late... and i was god damn tired.. so.. gimme a break.

The delay isn't because "Axl can't right songs".. how would he suddenly not be able to write good songs? you guys are just going crazy from the wait.. so every possible senerario is poping up into your heads. "What if Axl.. "  :hihi:

This isn't a diss to anyone who may believe the axl may have lost his song writing talent either. im just saying.. come on.. were really just speculating now.. making threads that don't really have any purpose. In any of the new songs we've heard has Axl gave a shadow of a doubt that he can still write? Hes just.. a perfection driven person..

Im convinced the album will be out.. and '06 is basically.. the last year he can do it without losing his core fan base.. so.. im not really freaking out too much. I'll have it in my hands "soon"  :hihi:

    -jack

P.S.
I believe that there will be a quick (at least in comparison to the gap between UYI and C.D... lol) sucession of albums released after C.D. But for the next "big" one.. (IF theres one)... we might have a long wait. Just not.. well.. 10 years. haha. 

My feelings exactly. The Blues is the only "new" song that makes me think CD could be a great album. I also love the song CD, but it isn't 'big gun' caliber like The Blues.

Is it just me or does "The Blues" sound like from the glory days, as well as modern?  ???

I feel the same way. The Blues sounds like it could've been on UYI, but the lyrics put it on a much higher level than any of the cheesy Illusions ballads.

I agree with the blues being an awesome tune, as far as the thread itself and puropse


1) I do think that we will have CD soon now , if that word still works in GNR land. ;)

2) I think that a wait between albums will be much shorter.(I really firmly believe , they have done enough recording for followups, minus those ever so annoying touch ups) but all the same I think and am confident, that after CD does come and hell it may not even be called CD,that after touring on it like axl once said, the next album will be released.

3) As far as big guns, IRS as far as what what said wasnt on that list nor the Blues, so if those arent big Guns than oh shit we are in for a hella of good time when this drops!

I agree, the lyrics take it to 'another level'

its a great song, huge potential i think, much moreso than the grossly over-rated Madagascar

im not sure its a hit single mind, but it could well be

what it really needs are some stellar vocals (studio)

I thought I was the only person who thought Madagascar was overrated. :hihi: I think The Blues has potential to be a hit, but if Axl has better songs, I think he shouldn't use The Blues as a single/video. In my view, The Blues is a very dark love song, kinda like an anti-love song. I dont know if it would go over well with the mainstream.

how silly, Of course  axl can write a song

U gotta look at it like this

1.Axl had to replace an entire band but had to find the RIGHT guys, u cant replace the original Guns with just anyone off the street, that took time.

2. Axl had to become familiar with the new recording technology: I hear Pro Tools is a bitch to master, so I say it took him a couple years to learn it masterfully.

3.Axl's record label was goin through a merger/financial crisis: RULE NUMBER 1 IN MUSIC INDUSTRY, U never release a CD under those circumstances, Prince released probably the greatest CD of his career "Emancipation" but it didnt sell well cause the record label went bankrupt and couldnt promote it.

Axl didnt want that to happen


This CD will be released when all the proper stars line up.

Some false starts happened,If bucket hadnt quit, I say we wouldve had the CD by now, just think, every year that goes by is a year we are closer.


To answer the thread All I have to say is this:

Listen to "The Blues",Or Madagascar", or IRS.

Question answered.

It's called conceptualising...it takes time.


Knowing what that man is capable of doing...it probably is the case.


Doesn't look like it...they're personal songs, and as personal situations evolve and change, then the need to change the songs also arises.


HE is not 'most bands'


The frightening part is that his whole career DOES depend on this album. Axl's image was frozen in 1993, and people see him now like they did then...a lot can happen in 13 years.

Another issue is the fact that he just couldn't get it right with the musicians he kept on hiring...be it chemistry, talent or whatever, he knows that when this album hits the streets, people are going to criticise HIM and not Richard Fortus, or Robin, or Dizzy.

IT's HIM and HIM alone, who will get the compliments, bashing and whatever may come off it.

Scary prospect.


Yes, but we know the man's track record, and its an impressive one, so logically, you hope for the best.


Oh, but it will. Its too late now to start making compromises and cutting corners. When this comes out, people will want to see 13 years worth of work in there, not 3, not 5, not 7...but 13.