Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Some ignoramuses will tell you GN?R had only one good album, AFD. I think it is safe to say that the success of the ?Greatest Hits? proves otherwise. If fans, casual or not, only liked AFD, the GH would not being selling so well. Fans still care about UYI era material.

I understand the connection your trying to make.. but.. it doesn't work that way. People just buy Greatest Hits because its cheap.. and they know it will have all the hits. The true test of UYI's staying power is actually looking at its sales nowadays.. compared to AFD's....

Based off your logic I could say...

"Some ignoramuses will tell you GN?R had only one good album, AFD. I think it is safe to say that the success of the ?Greatest Hits? proves otherwise. If fans, casual or not, only liked AFD, the GH would not being selling so well. Fans still care about the Spaghetti Incident era material."

Just because theres songs from the spaghetti incident doesn't mean that people are buying GH for it.

Im not trying to bash you.. im just saying.. poor logic...

   -jack

You're not bashing me at all. But GH has three songs from AFD, two from TSI, one from lies, SFTD, and seven (one half) from UYI. My point is, if people only wanted SCOM and Jungle, they'd buy AFD, not the GH.

Songs like November Rain and You Could Be Mine have held up well I think.  However, the UYI albums overall have not stood up to the test of time.  I do think a remixed UYI would be sweet as hell though.

Hmm well its just.. the average consumer sees "Greatest Hits" on the case.. and goes "O! Greatest Hits! I'll buy that!"... its just a mental thing. If GN'R changed the GH track list to a more appetite styled one.. im sure it would sell equally well.

Also.. while it seems obvious to us that "Jungle" and "SCOM" are on AFD... not everyone knows that.. and I know I know.. "You could just look at the back".. but.. people are dumb! They see 5 different albums from GN'R and theyre not sure whats on what.. so they get GH.

So while its possible that people are getting GH for UYI material.. theres no real way to prove it.

They're not buying the GH soley for UYI songs. I just think it?s fair to speculate that people still want to hear those songs, or else they would skip GH all together and buy AFD

Lol ok point taken Nixon.  :beer:

Nixon is an excellent debater.

That doesnt prove anything at all. The only reason GH sold so well is because it was cheaper than CDs in the bargain bin.  The only way for your point to be proven is if GNR put out a GH cd without anything from AFD. I wish Interscope and Sanctuary the best of luck on that endeavor. :hihi:

CDs in the bargin bin are 1-5 dollars. GH is about $12.00. AFD is as much or less.

Here in CA it was 5 dollars. I dont know what the price of it is now, but in the first month or so of its release it was that cheap. Had the album not been so cheap, it would not have sold as well as it did.

GH was selling for five bucks? Really?

Yes it was. Every time I went to Best Buy, Circuit City, or some similar store that's how much it was. I'm sure it was priced so low to get big album sales. It worked. But I didn't buy it.

I think a lot of people who bought GH did so because they wanted all the singles (The videos they'd seen on MTV) without having to buy 5 CD's. I'll use my ex girlfriends father as an example here! I know for a fact he bought GH for SCOM and November Rain, just those two songs, and he knew he could get them here on one disc! People like that who aren't big fans of GNR don't really care for songs like 'My World', 'Locomotive' and more experimental UYI tracks, they see a package here that has all the 'big' songs on one disc for a cheap price and they buy it! It's as simple as that, I don't think it has anything to do with what particualar album the songs were lifted from.

As for why so many people love AFD but don't love UYI, that's kinda obvious, AFD is more accessible, it's a straight up rock n roll album and a great one at that. UYI covered different styles and was very experimental, therefore as one of my friends says it is/was a 'quality rollercoaster' in a lot of peoples eyes. I personally love most of the UYI records with the exception of only 3 or 4 songs, which is good for a double album.

I disagree. Most of the buyers didn't know GN'R and bought GH as an 'introduction'. Some bought it as a present for someone they think to be/want to be a GN'R fan. And there are collectors who buy everything that has the Guns N' Roses brand.

BTW although AFD is my favourite album, I think even the UYIs (and Lies) were quite good, and I can enjoy TSI, too. (Not SIDHY, Can't Put... etc. but some songs)

James, that is complete bullshit.  :rant: Sales like a 6 dollar cd happen for maybe one day. My Best Buy in Ga was selling it for 10 dollars. Just like any other new release. They start the price low in the first few days. Now, the Gh is like 12-13 dollars and the album is still in the top 50 on Billboard. Although I don't know you very well, I am quite sure your specialty is not retail and sales. :hihi: The album sold well because they are/were a VERY popular band and are semi back in style now due to all the VH1 programs etc. Don't cut down the boys just to be a dick. Pilferk, anyone with retail knowledge want to add something here?

It's always been $10.99 CND around here. I still never bought it cuz it wasn't endorsed by the band.

but i could see getting it if you didn't have any GnR albums. it was basically all the singles right? what more could you want if you were a 'new' fan ::)

I've never been a fan of GH's in general cuz if i like it, they make me wanna just go out and get the rest of the albums anyway :-\ I guess that's the whole point of them though. My buddy sells his old albums when GH's come out so he doesn't have as much crap laying around. Faulty logic IMO. For instance i recently bought 'Thankyou' by STP and now, after listening to it I've pulled out the STP collection to listen to the older albums. I still find it kinda sad that they are finished :'( Robert and Dean DeLeo are awesome musicians) I'm torn though cuz it's great to see Slash Duff and Matt back in action and STP was getting kinda tired & I'm looking forward to the DeLeo's new disc with the Filter singer if it ever materializes. (Hopefully it's better than the TalkShow stuff too :-[ )

November Rain alone proved that they were "good for more".

And the fact that the UYI's sold about 5 mill a piece ain't too shabby either.  Most other bands' "sophomore" outings never reach those numbers.

 ???  $5?  Here in Delaware, USA, I bought it in the first few days at $13.99, and I've never, ever, ever seen it at any store, Wal-Mart, the mall record stores, FTV, for less than $10.99.
Sorry.

And yes, this post is correct.  Without Patience, November Rain, KOHD, and You Could Be Mine, GH wouldn't have sold the same amount.   

Chinese Democracy is gonna tear shit up!!!   : ok:

UYI sold 7 or 8 million a piece.

Only the Americans think that AFD is "the" Guns N' Roses album. Outside USA, The Use Your illusion 1 and 2 were MUCH more successfull.
Guns N' Roses was an unknown band in the world until 1991 and the Illusion albums. They were famous in the USA before 1991...but only in the USA.

Outside USA, Most of people remember Guns N' Roses because of "November Rain".

Well depends on how you take it, they where a world wide phenomenon in the Illusion era but they where certainly popular before, I live in Peru and GNR was well known and got lots of radio play for Sweet Child and Patience and those songs where played at parties and stuff and im talking 1988-89 and 1990.

It would be interesting to see the UYI sales numbers per year past '94.? A solid guess would be dimished numbers from year to year.

On the other hand, AFD sales appear to stay steady year to year likely dwarfing the UYI's combined on annual basis.

Good for more than AFD? Sure.

Great for more than AFD? Questionable.

In this case using sales over time as a barometer, numbers probably give a fairly accurate snapshot of the bands lasting legacy and which album that can be attributed to.

  Aren't there other factors involved though?  AFD is listed right now over at Amazon.com for $9.98, and Illusion I is $14.99, Illusion II is $13.99.  Wouldn't a lower price equal more units sold?  I don't think anyone questions that AFD is pound for pound the best GNR item out there, but, the UYI's solidified their mark on rock n' roll and made GNR truly great.  Just the opinion of a Nov. Rain and Estranged fanatic.   :)    :peace:

The use Your illusion albums sold 36 million copies (worldwide).
20 million copies for Use Your Illusion 2
16 million copies for Use Your Illusion 1

They were both more successfull in the world than in the USA. Use Your Illusion 2 sold better because it's probably the best. (my favourite GN'R album also, ahead AFD)
For AFD, it's the opposite, it was more successfull in the USA and less in the world.

well duhhhh, The world is a bit bigger than the USA don't you think? :hihi:

and where are these #'s from? I just got the DefLeppard Rock of Ages and in it Dave Ling (Classic Rock and Metal Hammer magazines writer) it says in it that only 5 rock groups have ever had 2 albums to sell more than 10 million copies each in the world.

Zepplin, Floyd, Eagles, Van Halen and yes Def Leppard. Now I'm not saying it's gospel but why would he lie?

These sales figures come from Wikipedia

Album Sales (U.S. only)

Appetite for Destruction (1987) - 18 Million (15x platinum)
G N' R Lies (1988) - 4.7 Million (5x platinum)
Use Your Illusion I (1991) - 5,355,985 (7x platinum)
Use Your Illusion II (1991) - 5,435,447 (7x platinum)
Use Your Illusion I & II (1998) - 430,912
The Spaghetti Incident? (1993) - 1,290,849 (1x platinum)
Live Era '87-'93 (double album) (1999) - 729,370 (Gold)
Greatest Hits (2004) - 2,419,000 (2x platinum)

I don't know if he voluntary lies, but he is dawn wrong!
Queen, U2, Oasis, Guns N' Roses, Aerosmith, The offspring, the red Hot Chilli peppers, Metallica, AC/DC and probably some others (maybe Nirvana I think) have all at least 2 albums wich sold over 10 million copies worldwide.

Just think about it: Guns N' Roses sold 85 million albums worldwide...and 80 million albums without the GH and Live erea, just with AFD, Lies, UYI 1 and 2 and Spaghettits. So... I let you do your math.

Oh...and Oasis sold over 30 million records from 1994 to 1997...with just 3 studio albums at that time.

Again i'm not saying it's 100% true, i just read it then I read your post so i thought it was relevant. Where are your numbers from dude, so we can all read it.

Also Mr Ling must have some kinda concrete info cuz he's a rock journalist. and no offense but i'd trust his info before yours, unless, of course, you can back it up  :peace:

Not true at all
Im from New Zealand and Guns became huge through SCOM, PC etc.. basically Appetite and Lies
I think they gained somewhat wider appeal with the likes of November Rain etc.. however, the hardcore fans were starting to wain a bit by this stage

If what he said was poor logic then you must be lost all together.

The GH sales are consistent. They are cheap, therefore it sells. Get that.

With mostly UYI songs on the album, it does attract new fans and people alike to buy the album. Who buys a greatest hits album without knowing the songs? I'm not sure if I would do that.

Nesquick - Where are you getting worldwide sales figures and how can they be deemed even remotely accurate?

Just wondering.

I'm searching for my old sources. but you can find it on the internet. I remember there was a huge Top 100 album sales somewhere...it was several month ago.

I don't think the success of GH proves that at all.  People who don't know much about GN'R buy GH because it has WTTJ, SCOM, and Paradise City on it.  They're not buying it because Yesterdays is on it.  There are two kinds of people who have bought GH.  People who want to get into the band and have heard the Big Three, and obssesed fans like us who want to complete the collection.  I think its good that they are exposed to a lot of Illusion songs once they listen to it, but those songs aren't the reason people are buying the album.  And therefore GH does not prove anything except GN'R is still pretty damn popular.

Does anyone know the intergalactic sales of GN'R's entire catalogue? I thought I heard that "Use Your Illusion 1 & 2" did very well on Galifrey and Vulcan, but bombed on Scaro because Davros banned the sale of all GN'R albums, thus the Dalek's not being onto "Noember Rain" when the new GN'R played Scaro on the 2002 tour. Although the Cybermen are really into TSI era materia as GN'R play several songs from that album when they tour Mondas.

well ? ?the first posts on this topic were only addressed to the uyi`s , but don`t forget about gnr lies and the spaghetti incident.
it`s true that gnr wasn`t that big in germany or france for example before the illusions came out and those records were more succesful than afd here. my sister for example had all gnr albums except afd......... and those were the records, which got me into gnr. afd was the last gnr album i came to know.

and the price of 5 bucks, that jameslofton brings in every topic about the GH`s isn`t something that was normal. i actually bought the GH`s at amazon, but i went to a shop before and it was listed for 17 ?!!! that`s around 20 $ i guess.... and even at amzon it was 15?................ ?i don`t know how many copies it sold in germany , but i guess it was quite succesful though.

by the way ? you`re right richardnixon. if the casual fan would only have been interested in the three afd songs, he had bought afd.

My original point was not to show that the success of GH is proof that UYI has outshinned AFD in the mind of the public, but that people still care about those songs. Not to sound redundant, but I think maybe people missed that or misread what I meant to say, or perhaps I wasn't clear at first.

well i think you were quite clear ar first, but this could also mean that people still care about patience, sympathy for the devil and the tsi songs.... :peace:

I'm not trying to "cut down the boys just to be a dick". Its a simple fact that GH was that cheap here in CA for an extended period of time. Not just for one day. I cant speak for the rest of the world, but in my area it was bargain bin material.

Er.. ok the GH sales are consistent. Whats your point? Did I say they weren't? Im just saying to say "because GH is selling, it must mean people buying it for UYI hits" isn't logical. People are buying it.. because its GN'R... and its "Greatest Hits"... people tend to eat up GH packages.

Also.. many people buy Greatest Hits without knowing the majority of the songs. GH's are good gifts.. and if I wasn't a GN'R fan and I wanted SCOM.. I'd probably just buy the cheaper GH over AFD.

So please.. read what I said again.. I never said GH wasn't selling.. I just said theres no way to prove Nixons theory.

Also.. to the people who don't believe james.. I live in southern california.. and I remember seeing it for 5.99$... for a LONG time. I havent seen it recently.. but im sure its not much more expensive. To put that in perspective.. UYI and UYI 2 were both 20$ when I got them (20$ each). AFD was around 17 bucks.

    -jack

Its strange how people cant believe that a GNR album was that cheap, and that it played a big factor in the success of GH.

Alright, then I understand your point and agree. GN'R is not only AFD for the general public, they love NR, DC, KOHD and YCBM (and maybe some other songs) as well.

gnr is still known by many as a on ealbum band.. AFD is the album gnr is known for.. I love all the albums but that is casual fan to mainstreamers of rock..

This is more then most, they at least know wttj, PC, &  scom, and maybe NR

Another example is whenever there is a greatest album ever afd is always tops, many times the illusuions isn't even aknowledged yet other bands have multiple albums in the list..

Those lists, like SPIN and RS suck. The Hit Parader one was pretty good.

Yeah Hit Parader's was pretty solid. Bugs me that they always put UYI 1&2 in one spot. They had like.. 36? AFD #2?

Metallica #1... hmmm...

Right?

Although, it does appear to me that this is more of an American attitude. It seems to me that the Illusions were truly the albums that catapulted GN'R into worldwide mainstream success. Without the Illusion albums I don't think GN'R would've become such a worldly dominant band in the early 1990s as they were.

Without AFD, the Illusions hysteria would never have taken place. : ok:

Yes, I know that about the initial hysteria, but for the past years I've been looking at GN'R European chart entries for singles and the Illusions from country to country and it seems that as GN'R seemed to have become secluded in the U.S. by 'cooler' bands like Nirvana and whatnot their popularity in Europe, Asia, and South America soared way past AFD heights.

For example, look at this section of a report I researched and typed up for Mygnr:

1. Welcome To The Jungle
US Peak:7 UK Peak:24

2. Sweet Child O' Mine
US Peak:1 UK Peak:6 (remix)

3. Patience
US Peak:4 UK Peak:10

4. Paradise City
US Peak:4 UK Peak:6

5. Knockin' On Heaven's Door
US Peak:n/a UK Peak:2

6. Civil War
US Peak:n/a UK Peak:11

7. You Could Be Mine
US Peak: 29 UK Peak:3

8. Don't Cry (Original Lyrics)
US Peak:10 UK Peak:8

9. November Rain
US Peak:3 UK Peak:4

10. Live And Let Die
US Peak:33 UK Peak:5

11. Yesterdays
US Peak:72 UK Peak:8

12. Ain't It Fun
US Peak:n/a UK Peak:9

13. Since I Don't Have You
US Peak:69 UK Peak:10

14. Sympathy For The Devil
US Peak:55 UK Peak:9

Do you see the difference in chartings between AFD and Illusion singles both in the U.S. and U.K.?

Good point, and great research! : ok: :beer: I am in the US, so didnt experience GNR's influence around the rest of the world. Interesting how they were still big with TSI. Here in the US, TSI was dead on arrival.

Falcon, in a few Sanctuary press releases they talk about Gnr selling 80 or 85 million albums worldwide. Also, UYI's were certified 7 times platinum in July 1997. Not bad. They were still selling very strong right through the grunge era. I doubt they do that well now. :-\     RIAA

ION II 12/02/91 GEFFEN M (3) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION I 01/07/92 GEFFEN M (3) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES NOVEMBER RAIN 08/05/92 GEFFEN G SINGLE GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION II 10/12/92 GEFFEN M (4) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION I 11/02/92 GEFFEN M (4) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION 02/09/93 GEFFEN M (9) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION WORLD TOUR - 1992 02/09/93 GEFFEN HOME VIDEO G VIDEO LONGFORM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES G 'N R LIES 03/25/93 GEFFEN M (4) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION 03/25/93 GEFFEN M (10) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES THE SPAGHETTI INCIDENT? 01/26/94 GEFFEN G ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES THE SPAGHETTI INCIDENT? 01/26/94 GEFFEN P ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION WORLD TOUR -IN TOKYO I 05/13/94 GEFFEN HOME VIDEO G VIDEO LONGFORM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION II 09/13/94 GEFFEN M (5) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION I 10/18/94 GEFFEN M (5) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES G 'N R LIES 02/10/95 GEFFEN M (5) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION I 02/10/95 GEFFEN M (6) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION II 02/10/95 GEFFEN M (6) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION 02/10/95 GEFFEN M (13) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION 10/25/96 GEFFEN M (14) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION I 07/16/97 GEFFEN M (7) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES USE YOUR ILLUSION II 07/16/97 GEFFEN M (7) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION 07/23/98 GEFFEN M (15) ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES LIVE ERA '87 - '93 01/06/00 GEFFEN G ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES GREATEST HITS 08/18/04 GEFFEN G ALBUM GROUP Std
GUNS 'N ROSES GREATEST HITS 08/18/04 GEFFEN P ALBUM GROUP Std