Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In Axl's infamous "Dive in and find the monkey' fax ....http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/tr-19961030-fax.html ...
it states Duff as Mike 'Duff' McKagan

What was Duffs involvment do you think?
Did he approve/agree with these sentiments?

It's interesting from the perspective that it seems Duff was willing to stick it out longer than the others.

Why do you think this was?

Not only Duff, but Matt was in GN'R when Axl sent this fax. I don't know how they felt... It'd be great to ask them.

But Matt is/was/never has been part of the "GnR Partnership"

That is interesting, hmmmmm, all that says to me is that Duff forgave and forgot and Axl didn't

I'd heard of this fax
But I had never read it
Damned funny, I think!

Splash

/Mike

As is typically the case with "letter" formatting, I think the bottom right hand corner of correspondance is the "CC" area" (I'm trying to think back to High School Word Processing.....and that's a LONG time ago).  So, I think the intent was that the "letter" from Axl was CC'd to BFD and Duff, not that they were "signing" the letter or endorsing the sentiment.

Doesn't that part right there totally nullify Slash and Duff's lawsuit over the rights to the gnr back catalogue and decision making?

I knew it. But since Duff and Matt are in VR and friends with Slash, even Matt could be asked about it.

BTW what do you mean by saying 'Duff forgave and forgot'? Forgive what?

Chineseblues, no, not at all. It just shows that Axl had an eye on the partnership issues way back in the turmoil. He was on top of the game and was trying to make a statement that could possibly help him out in the future. ?:'(

No, coz even if they quit the band, they still wrote/composed the songs and are entitled to a percentage, whenever the songs are played.

That's not what I meant. Slash/Duff are suing for total control of the back catalogue by saying they are the only 2 entitled to it because Axl left the partnership at the end of 1995. But this fax shows it was slash who had left the partnership at the end of 1995 and not Axl.


But it does show Axl never left the partnership at the end of 1995.

Wonder why there's a question mark after the word "endeavors"?? ???

I'm going by the assumption that Duff and Axl were both pissed that Slash left GnR whie they were putting an album together, pure speculation on my part. I know I'd be pissed if I was left hanging in the middle of a job.


It's Axl's P.O.V. S&D are saying Axl left the GnR partnership and Axl is saying they left the partnership. And the court is trying to figure out who is lying. I only partially understand what is going on. It's really confusing, cuz, from what i understand, If S&D win then there will be 2 GnR entities, the orig which would be owned by S&D and the new incarnation which would be owned by Axl. So conceivably S&D could release a Rarity DVD by GnR but it has nothing to do with Axl's current lineup of GnR, but both would be official. To me that would be really fucked up ???

On the contrary it says Slash left the partnership then And Duff admit it back in 1995?

Axl didn't know at that point if GnR would continue to exist? just a guess

Pilferk is correct.
Duff's name is only on there
'Cause he was CC'd.

That's all that it means.
He sent to Duff, MTV,
And ol' Big FD.

Splash

/Mike

Wait a sec, Is he saying Sn D left the partnership?

 :nervous: :confused: I don't know anymore :confused: :nervous:

*runs away screaming with hands to ears* :hihi:

Wouldn't S&D need Axl to agree with the release of any "Rarity DVD" since, no matter what the court ruling would be, Axl will always be a part of the "partnership" that involves any material that would be in anything "GNR" that S&D could possibly release? ?It would be really hard not to notice the guy in the spandex n' bicycle shorts!!!? :hihi:

Correct I think. It definately says Slash left in 1995, whether Duff admitted it back then or not is unknown. But I find it highly suspect that he is saying Axl quit when he has to rely on Matt Sorum to tell him what happened at that time because he was so fucked up.

Correct. Axl is trying to show that Slash left the partnership. However, just because Axl says it, doesn't mean it is true. His fax is not a contract! It does show that Axl considered himself as a part of the partnership. One of the key documents we don't have is the one where S/D claim Axl gave them written notice that he was going to leave the partnership to start his own Gnr. Somewhere in 95-96 this document was given to S/d.

If this was the case, and Slash and Duff have the document, surely the case would be resolved by now? It looks like it didn't exist...if it had they'd have had him in court way before now. Also I don't think they would have bought up the court case if the material they had wanted to be released had been authorised! Shit I can't believe I'm being sucked into this discussion again, its a real headfuck!

The document exists and was/is brought up in the complaint. We don't know exactly what it says because we don't have it. Thus, there are probably conflicting documents as to who left the partnership and when they left. That is why the case has not been resolved or thrown out on summary judgement by the judge. There are issues of fact that a jury will have to sort out unless by chance they settle out of court.

Still it has his name on it.


Is it a contract? I feel like I've read it somewhere but could be I'm wrong.

They allege that Axl gave them formal written notice (which they provided to the court when filing the complaint) that he was leaving the partnership to start a new Gnr. They allege he left in the complaint, but we don't know EXACTLY what that document says because we don't have it. What they "allege" and what is reality is different. Just like what Axl "alleges" and what is reality is different. A jury will determine who left and who will have control of the old catalog going forward.

Honestly...
After all thoose years and the fact that all 6 original (till 93) line up members have left him, ?who gives a f... about Axl Rose!?
I don't! ?
Needless to mention how many people left him from his nu-metal band or how he went after Kurt after Nirvana was big enough to tour themselves and rejected his offer to join GNR/Metallica tour (which we know how it ended and what Metallica guys think of Axl). ?(For refference, ?see VH1 Metallica in their own words).
What to think of a guy who finds a person to replace Izzy in the middle of the tour, ?makes him learn 40+ songs in several weeks, ?makes an official concert video/dvd of him playing but despite all the money he makes from it, ?cuts the guy out after two years!?
NOTHING!
For me, ?Axl is a mentally f... up lunatic who is living in his own world!
REMEMBER! ?Non of the things above is made up, ?it is all TRUE, ?despite the fact how amazing it sounds like.

Oh bother it!


I still think I might have seen the document. And it didn't say that was to start a new Gnr especially. I must search for it. :-\

All his name being on there means, is that when the fax was sent Axl considered Duff to be a part of "his" partnership, and therefore cc'd him on it. Duff and Slash at that time could have benn on the same page in thinking that Axl had left the partnership.

Who knows............???

It is sad that this is what we have to deal with when following our favorite band. What would you do if they just toured and released albums....... what a bore.....

You must have meant it is pleasure..... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes but ieven if he did give "notice" to his leaving, this fax proves he did not act upon that "notice". It proves that he never left the partnership. All slash and duff are going by is that "notice", Im pretty sure they never said they have documents proving that he acted upon that "notice". Am I right in that assumption? ???

Correct. That is where their story gets a little frayed. Their actions or inactions show they left the partnership before Axl.  Axl carried on the business of Gnr-which wasn't alot from 1996 to 1999! Then, they collaborated in spirit on a live album and to block the GH.

If Axl formed the new band then Slash and Duff were employees of Axl's new entity. Both were out of the partnership of the new band at that point. The question is whether Axl had to resign his stake in the old band in order to form the new GnR. Slash and Duff contend that Axl's out clause essentially allowed him to take the name of the band with him out the door. It is difficult to know what Axl's position is b/c we haven't read his brief; but he will probably contend that the statement of intent letter that Slash and Duff claim to have isn't legitimate. In addition, he will probably claim that slash and duff quit willfully.

However, there is some evidence that Axl tried to get Slash and Duff to sign a new partnership agreement around this time in which his stake was that of the sole partner; slash made some comments about some legalities that Axl was waiting on him for. It is possible that Axl had designs on using his ownership of the name to press his sake as he sole partner and wanted Duff and Slash to sign off on the formation of the new Guns partnership.

But according to slash and co, Axl forced them to sign over the rights to the gnr name back in 1992. So why would he have to leave the partnership in 1995 in order to get control of the name?

From what I read in the Slash and Duff brief, the stipulation was that Axl could leave anytime with the name of the band but they claim he rescinded his stake in the partnership.

Axl was negotiating something with Duff and Slash in 1995. Both talked about some legality that Axl had put in front of them attached with a deadline.