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Guns N' Roses => Guns N' Roses => Topic started by: odd1 on November 24, 2005, 10:04:58 AM



Title: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: odd1 on November 24, 2005, 10:04:58 AM
Hi.
Last weekend i was attending a party at my math-teachers house. We got pretty drunk and was talking about music.
Then he told me that he liked Axl Rose but that he thougt that his lyrics are very superficial. I said that I didnt agree and would show him evidence of the opposite. The week went by and I had forgotten all about it until today when my teacher laughed and asked if I couldnt prove that Axl made some great lyrics. (He actually compared Axl to britney Spears)
So do any of you have suggestions of some great GnR lyrics, articles about Axls Lyris and so on?


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Jonathan on November 24, 2005, 10:07:52 AM
Estranged.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Neemo on November 24, 2005, 10:15:57 AM
If someone is convinced about certain lyrics it'll be hard to sway them.? I like Don't Damn Me and Nov. Rain and Sweet Child and One In A Million.

Here is an exerpt from one of many articles where Axl defends his lyrics in OIAM. From the articles section of HTGTH.

Quote
RS - So far the song that's inspired the most controversy in the band's short career has been "One in a Million." How did you come to write that song?

Axl - "One in a Million" was written while sitting in the apartment of my friend West Arkeen, who's like the sixth member of the band. I wrote it at his house, sitting around bored watching TV. I can't really play guitar too well, I only play the top two strings, and I would write a little piece at a time. I started writing about wanting to get out of LA , getting away for a little while. I'd been down to the downtown-L.A. Greyhound bus station. If you haven't been there, you can't say shit to me about what goes on and about my point of view. There are a large number of black men selling stolen jewelry, crack, heroin and pot, and most of the drugs are bogus. Rip-off artists selling parking spaces to parking lots that there's no charge for. Trying to misguide every kid that gets off the bus and doesn't quite know where he's at or where to go, trying to take the person for whatever they've got. That's how I hit town. The thing with "One in a Million" is, basically, we're all one in a million, we're all here on this earth. We're one fish in a sea. Let's quit fucking with each other, fucking with me.

RS - The lyrics have incited a lot of protest, so let's go over them line by line. Let's start with one of the verses, "Police and niggers, that's right/Get outta my way/Don't need to buy none/ Of your gold chains today."

Axl - I used words like police and niggers because you're not allowed to use the word nigger. Why can black people go up to each other and say, "Nigger," but when a white guy does it all of a sudden it's a big put-down. I don't like boundaries of any kind. I don't like being told what I can and what I can't say. I used the word nigger because it's a word to describe somebody that is basically a pain in your life, a problem. The word nigger doesn't necessarily mean black. Doesn't John Lennon have a song "Woman Is the Nigger of the World"? There's a rap group, N.W.A., Niggers with Attitude. I mean, they're proud of that word. More power to them. Guns N' Roses ain't bad. . . . N.W.A. is baad! Mr. Bob Goldthwait said the only reason we put these lyrics on the record was because it would cause controversy and we'd sell a million albums. Fuck him! Why'd he put us in his skit? We don't just do something to get the controversy, the press.

RS - How about the next verse? Immigrants and faggots/They make no sense to me/ They come to our country/And think they'll do as they please/ Like start some mini-Iran or spread some fuckin' disease." Why that reference to immigrants?

Axl - When I use the word immigrants, what I'm talking about is going to a 7-11 or Village pantries - a lot of people from countries like Iran, Pakistan, China, Japan et cetera, get jobs in these convenience stores and gas stations. Then they treat you as if you don't belong here. I've been chased out of a store with Slash by a six-foot-tall Iranian with a butcher knife because he didn't like the way we were dressed. Scared me to death. All I could see in my mind was a picture of my arm on the ground, blood going everywhere. When I get scared, I get mad. I grabbed the top of one of these big orange garbage cans and went back at him with this shield, going, "Come on!" I didn't want to back down from this guy. Anyway that's why I wrote about immigrants. Maybe I should have been more specific and said, "Joe Schmoladoo at the 7-11 and faggots make no sense to me." That's ridiculous! I summed it up simply and said, "Immigrants."

RS - How about the use of the word "faggots"?

Axl - I've had some very bad experiences with homosexuals. When I was first coming to Los Angeles, I was about eighteen or nineteen. On my first hitchhiking ride, this guy told me I could crash at his hotel. I went to sleep and woke up while this guy was trying to rape me. I threw him down on the floor. He came at me again. I went running for the door. He came at me. I pinned him between the door and the wall. I had a straight razor, and I pulled the razor and said, "Don't ever touch me! Don't ever think about touching me! Don't touch yourself and think about me! Nothing!" Then I grabbed my stuff and split with no place to go, no sleep, in the middle of nowhere outside of St. Louis. That's why I have the attitude I have.

RS - Are you anti-homosexual then?

Axl - I'm proheterosexual. I can't get enough of women, and I don't see the same thing that other men can see in men. I'm not into gay or bisexual experiences. But that's hypocritical of me, because I'd rather see two women together than just about anything else. That happens to be my personal, favorite thing.

RS - How about gay-bashing? Have you ever beaten up somebody simply because of their sexual preference?

Axl - No! I never have. The most I do is, like, on the way to the Troubadour in "Boystown," on Santa Monica Boulevard, I'll yell out the car window, "Why don't you guys like pussy?" 'Cause I'm confused. I don't understand it. Anti-homosexual? I'm not against them doing what they want to do as long as it's not hurting anybody else and they're not forcing it upon me. I don't need them in my face or, pardon the pun, up my ass about it.

RS - The "One in a Million" lyrics about "faggots" who "spread some fuckin' disease" got G n' R bounced from an AIDS benefit in New York by the Gay Men's Health Crisis, one of the groups that was involved with putting on the show. How did you feel about that?

Axl - We're in no way associated with the Gay Men's Health Crisis, except that David Geffen is on the board of directors for the concert and he's the owner of our record company. We were asked to do this, and we wanted to contribute some money to help stop a deadly disease that's killing humans of all kinds. A friend of mine who's homosexual and was largely responsible for the record companies taking notice of us was upset about it because we didn't even get a chance to clear ourselves, to make good. AIDS is something very scary. The concert was something we wanted to do and felt it was important to do but we were denied the opportunity. We were even denied the opportunity to say anything about it. It was just publicly announced that we weren't allowed to do it because the Gay Men's Health Crisis wouldn't let us. I don't feel they have the right to deny the money and attention they would have gotten from us playing. It's pride, it's ignorant and it's childish.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Pandora on November 24, 2005, 10:26:11 AM
Coma, for chrissakes ! If that's not lyrical brilliance, I don't know what is.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Litti10 on November 24, 2005, 10:27:14 AM
who cares what they think about it u cant help them if they ar stupid


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Sin Cut on November 24, 2005, 10:30:14 AM
Hi.
Last weekend i was attending a party at my math-teachers house. We got pretty drunk and was talking about music.
Then he told me that he liked Axl Rose but that he thougt that his lyrics are very superficial. I said that I didnt agree and would show him evidence of the opposite. The week went by and I had forgotten all about it until today when my teacher laughed and asked if I couldnt prove that Axl made some great lyrics. (He actually compared Axl to britney Spears)
So do any of you have suggestions of some great GnR lyrics, articles about Axls Lyris and so on?
My world  :hihi:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Pandora on November 24, 2005, 10:30:27 AM
who cares what they think about it u cant help them if they ar stupid

They might also have that opinion because they haven't heard the right songs. But if they know them all and still don't like them, I agree there's not much convincing that can be done.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: conny on November 24, 2005, 03:55:52 PM
The Blues, his best lyric so far.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Evolution on November 24, 2005, 04:02:15 PM
Hit him with some "Yesterdays"


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: ppbebe on November 24, 2005, 04:14:59 PM
beat him with "oh my god". :D

Neemo the article almost has me lean to odd1's teachers opinion..... :-\ well it's an old one.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Gunner80 on November 24, 2005, 04:29:57 PM
Hi.
Last weekend i was attending a party at my math-teachers house. We got pretty drunk and was talking about music.
Then he told me that he liked Axl Rose but that he thougt that his lyrics are very superficial. I said that I didnt agree and would show him evidence of the opposite. The week went by and I had forgotten all about it until today when my teacher laughed and asked if I couldnt prove that Axl made some great lyrics. (He actually compared Axl to britney Spears)
So do any of you have suggestions of some great GnR lyrics, articles about Axls Lyris and so on?
He's probably a beatles fan. They all seem to have that kind of atittude.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: jameslofton29 on November 24, 2005, 04:54:34 PM
Definitely The Blues. Pure lyrical brilliance. I would also say Chinese Democracy, because of how its written in a way thats intentionally vague and could mean different things depending on who's listening to it. :beer:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Mr. Dick Purple on November 24, 2005, 05:02:18 PM
If your supposed teacher doesn't understand locomotive or estranged perhaps he has to be fix in the brain. And comparing Axl with Britney, that's way too stupid.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Chief on November 24, 2005, 05:48:26 PM
here are a few that i think are great:

Locomotive
Don't Damn Me
Estranged
Dead Horse
Bad Apples (i think)
Breakdown


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Nytunz on November 24, 2005, 05:58:45 PM
i would go for breakdown!!! Absolutly! If anyone says thats bad lyrics!! Then  :hihi: at them!
Also Estranged and Coma! Incredible lyrics!! And what about Civil War? !!

Show your teacher the lyrics to thouse songs, and he will be stuck!  : ok:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Lord Kayoss on November 24, 2005, 06:27:26 PM
If your supposed teacher doesn't understand locomotive or estranged perhaps he has to be fix in the brain. And comparing Axl with Britney, that's way too stupid.

Yeah, he obviously has something against Axl.  An ignorant comment like that would only come from someone who has a problem with him personally.

Could be the attitude, the no-showing, the rioting, the frequent disappearences.....name it.  As much as I admire Axl he does give people plenty of reasons to dislike him.

You're not likely gonna change his mind no matter what song you put in front of him.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: jimmythegent on November 24, 2005, 07:40:29 PM
Axl has written some great lyrics - lets not forget he's written a few clunkers as well though

Id suggest -

garden of eden
paradise city
sweet child o' mine
one in a million (although it can be taken as the mere rantings of a bigot, I like to interpret it as ironic social commentary)
breakdown


ones to avoid -

back off bitch
get in the ring
shotgun blues
outta get me


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: AxlsMainMan on November 24, 2005, 11:13:08 PM
Alot of you guys praise the shit out of Coma, musically I dig it but I see no brilliance in the lyrics really. Breakdown takes the cake for me, that song is sheer brilliance and if your teacher/friend can find something worthy of praise then he doesnt deserve a set of ears to hear music through. :P


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: disease51883 on November 24, 2005, 11:33:18 PM
I'm sure "Coma" or "Estranged" would blow your teacher out of the water. "Locomotive" or "Breakdown" would probably be acceptable too. I'd be cautious of showing someone the "If love is blind..." and "get down with your bad self" lines from those songs though, but that's a judgment call. For whatever it's worth, I actually know of a girl that read the lyrics to "Locomotive", was moved to tears, and became an instant GNR fan. "Coma" is my personal favorite though...


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 24, 2005, 11:59:01 PM
  First things first, you've got to realize this guy's probably never heard anything other than GNR songs played on the radio.  Estranged, Coma, Estranged, Coma and Estranged...okay, throw in some Coma.  I don't care what he says, he should be required to listen to both songs in completion three times each. 

  When he calls these songs superficial, tell him to suck his own dick, because you know he's busting your balls.   :)

Good luck  :peace:

PS  I'd throw Madagascar into the mix as well...totally non-superficial.   : ok:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Johnnyblood on November 25, 2005, 12:13:47 AM
Obviously Axl is more artistic than Britney, but I don't think his lyric writing is out of this world. If he didn't have such a unique voice those lyrics would seem very average. (Imagine Jack Johnson singing Estranged.) And like the guy before, I'll never understand the Coma fixation on this board. Slash is the best part of that song. The lyrics are serviceable, but in over 10 years of listening they've never grabbed me and shook me. I like writing that creates a whole separate world, but Axl's lyrics are pretty much confined to his relationships with women and his paranoia. As for the occasional foray outside those subjects, Civil War (if he wrote those words) and CD are good fit for the songs they are in, but the intellectual content of a dilettante. When Axl writes a song from a suprising point of view, or says something I've never heard or thought before, I'll change my thinking. Until then I focus on music and vocals.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: disease51883 on November 25, 2005, 12:21:28 AM
Well, I find a lot of his lyrics to be pretty earth-shaking, but of course, my life revolves around paranoia and women too.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Genesis on November 25, 2005, 12:47:30 AM
Civil War, Nov. Rain are all good examples of great lyrics. Another point: has any other band come out with different lyrics for the same song (Don't Cry, Org. and Alt. )? And released it at the same time?


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Carlos_f_Rose on November 25, 2005, 01:22:01 AM
I would never compare Axl with Britney, but some Axl's lyrics are deep some arent.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Gunner80 on November 25, 2005, 02:05:21 PM
The thing about GNR was, they wrote about what they went through in their lives, and sometimes the lyrics might have appeared superficial in nature.  Also, some people just like to rip on Axl.


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 26, 2005, 06:11:49 PM
  GNR fans come for the SCOM's, PC's, YCBM's, and WTTJ's...but stay forever for the Estranged's, NR's, and Comas. 

 :love:



 


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: odd1 on November 26, 2005, 07:27:07 PM
My teacher likes Axl Rose and Queen a lot, he think Axl is cool but not deep in the lyrics. ( he has just heard the hits )
The comparison to Britney was probably just to make me angry :rant:
I will still show him some lyrics to make him change his mind.
Thanks for the feedback :peace:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: HoldenCaulfield on November 27, 2005, 11:20:57 PM
Jinkies, print out the lyrics and let him listen to 'Coma', 'Estranged', 'Locomotive', 'Madagascar', 'November Rain', and 'The Blues'. Those will convince anyone with any sense that Axl's a genius...


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: FlashFlood on November 28, 2005, 12:00:31 AM
you got a one way ticket on your last chance ride
got a one way ticket to your suicide
got a one way ticket and there's no way out alive

and all this crass communication that has left you in the cold
wasnt much for consolation when you feel so weak and old
but if home is where the heart then there's stories to be told
no you dont need a doctor no one else can heal your soul

got your mind in a submission got your life on the line
but nobody pulled the trigger they just stepped aside
and they'll be down by the corner while ya
watch em wavin goodbye

and they'll be callin in the mornin they'll be hangin on the phone
they'll be waitin for an answer when you no nobody's home
and when the phone stopped ringin it was
nobodys fault but your own
and there were always ample warnings there were always subtle signs
and you would have seen it comin but we gave you too much time
and when you said that no one's listening why'd your best friend drop the dime
sometimes we get so tired of waiting for a way to spend the time

and its so easy to be social its so easy to be cool
ya its easy to be hungry when you aint got shit to lose
and i wish that i could help you with what youd hope to find
but im still out here waiting watching reruns of my life
when ive reached the point of breaking, its gonna take some time
to heal the broken memories another man would just to survive



i just typed those from memory they are probably wrong but they are sick nonetheless and pretty sweet


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: C0ma on November 28, 2005, 02:38:05 PM
Is anyone else curious about the first line of this thread:

Quote
Last weekend i was attending a party at my math-teachers house. We got pretty drunk and was talking about music.

Math teacher makes me think high school. No one calls a College professor a "teacher"........ an who in college takes "Math"...... Usually someone would say Discrete Math or Statistics or Linear Algebra.

Sorry to get off topic but I find it odd that this kid is getting drunk at his "Math Teachers" house. I have a feeling I am going to walk in to see a breaking news story about this "Math Teacher" being arrested for indecent A&B of multiple minors.

Back on topic.
I would tell him to listen to: Estranged, Don't Cry (Alt Lyrics), Breakdown , Deadhorse, then for good measure flash him a soundboard of The Blues. Then I would get out of his class room before he asks you to help him carry something to his car and we read about you in the newspaper.



Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: madagas on November 28, 2005, 03:24:26 PM
Coma-Locomotive-Civil War-  top shelf
Estranged, Oh My God, Breakdown, Don't Damn Me, The Blues, Garden of Eden, and Maddy    2nd tier

Axl grew alot as a lyric writer between AFD and the Illusions


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: jabba2 on November 28, 2005, 04:04:23 PM
Garden of Eden has lyrical brilliance?  Isnt that the video where Axls sticking out his tongue licking at the camera?  :hihi:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: madagas on November 28, 2005, 04:09:55 PM
It's very well written....read them. However, can't say the video was any good! :nervous:


Title: Re: I need Help to convince someone
Post by: ppbebe on November 28, 2005, 04:13:19 PM
It's very well written....read them. However, can't say the video was any good! :nervous:

I like it. Actually I prefer it to mega budget videos like the NR one.