Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Gunners,

I don't know if people have noticed this yet, but if you go to GNRONTOUR.com and look up 1993 setlists and go to the last GNR show at the River Plate in Buenos Aires and you look under photos, there was a recently added photo taken by Gene Kirkland. He adds in the caption that when he showed this picture to Axl in 1995, Axl tried to grab it from him, thereby tearing a part of the picture (you can see the tear).

The pic shows Slash and Axl talking backstage after they had just performed their last amazing show together (get the DVD bootleg). There seems to be a certain amount physical distance between the two in the picture. Slash looks all relaxed from the shower while Axl is still wearing his concert garb, smoking a cigarette and seems to be talking about something serious. The picture saddens me - it seems to show how Slash & Axl grew apart by the end of the UYI tour.

I don't know how to post this picture up on the HTGTH website, but I'm sure this will be of interest to many GNR fans (even for Axl fans - its one of his last pictures from the Live Era when he's off-stage).

MNR

Here's a direct link to the photograph:

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/3913/19930717photo107ka.jpg

Wasn't the Estranged video recorded after this show? Or was it recorded between the european summer tour and the Buenos Aires shows?

I wonder why Axl wanted the picture? ?Did he not like it? ?Why did he want to keep it or destroy it?

Questions, questions, and more questions... :)

I posted the pic on this board back in June @ http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=21589.msg354192#msg354192

I also sent that scan to John for his site and it's available in this site's pictures (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/pics/group.html) section.




/jarmo

The site: www.gnrontour.com

The picture:

(http://gnrontour.com/sets1993/19930717photo10.jpg)

Just guessing here, but I suppose Axl didn't like to be reminded of those times...

whos that in the far right?

It is sad, but at least they were still talking at that point.  Also, Will, I would agree with you, but Kirkland says that he showed it to Axl two years later, implying 1995, right?  So, if that's right, then Slash hadn't left by that point.  I think.

Ali

Looks kinda like Gilby

This picture is extraordinary. The first time I saw it, I though it was different from all the other ones I had seen of the band. The color (grey/black and white), the faces, the distance between Axl and Slash... it's... :'(

Officially, Slash left in october '96. But Axl clearly states in his 10.29.96 fax to MTV that Slash is not "musically involved in GN'R since april '94". So I think, in his mind, at the time the picture was shown to him, Slash had already left the band...

The video for Estranged was made after the tour. I believe this happened either in late July or Early August 1993.
It would have been impossible for GNR at the time to make the video for Estranged while on tour because they went straight from Europe to South America to finish it up strong.

Point is THIS PIC could very well have been the last PIC of Axl & Slash together.

What a Shame.
MNR

wonder what they said to eachother....

and yes, i guess it's possible that they didn't see each other during the making of estranged...

The picture is......WOW!

Are there any more pics like this one? I mean backstage and studio stuff, like unposed pictures where they are just playing an instrument, chatting or sitting/standing around NOT looking in the camera? I love those pictures!

Are there even any points in the Estranged video where Axl and Slash are together?

What about Since I Don't Have You?

It's been a while since I saw those videos, but I don't remember there being any scenese with both guys?

Dear Conspiracy Theorists,

Sometimes a photograph is just a photo...  I have the Argentina bootleg and Slash is wearing those same ripped jeans during the gig so maybe instead of their being some sort of "great distance" between Axl and Slash, Slash merely put a towel on his mop of wet hair so that it would dry quicker.  I know that's not nearly as exciting as reading between the lines but what I see is two men talking after a stellar performance, not to mention 2 and a half year long world tour.  If I could lip read photographs I'd tell you exaclty what they are saying.  While this conceivably is the last picture of Axl and Slash from the UYI tour, lets not forget that they made the "Since I Don't Have You" video after "Estranged" so whose to say that Gene Kirkland or Robert John didn't capture them together  on that shoot? 

If a person digs deep enough they can create a scenario that suits their need and if enough people buy into that conspiracy theory then unfortunately it becomes accepted as fact.  Case and point is that a great portion of American high school students believe Oliver Stone's JFK is 100% concrete fact while that's not the case.  Stone's JFK is pure fiction and has been proven as such but that doesn't change the fact that A LOT of people believe it to be true.  The same thing happens on these message boards.  One person comes up with a theory, a few more support and regurgitate it, and suddenly GNR history is being re-written.

Cool photograph, nothing more....

   

Isn't the distance due to the fact Axl is walking?

Remember 'The Omen'? when the journalist develops the photos and the one of the priest has a spear pointing down at his head? Kinda reminds me of that!  :o

Anyway, its a cool photo, albeit a dissapointing one if you read too much into it

 ?Very cool pic, great thread. ?What makes that pic so cool to me is the shitty wood panneling, fluorescent lighting, and Coca-Cola sticker in the background. ?It reminds me of a buddy of mine's basement! ?Can anyone here picture Axl feeling comfortable in such surroundings anymore??? ?I picture Axl nowadays in lamborghinis, mansions, etc. ?

 ?I think it's time for Axl to do what Rocky did in Rocky III, and that is, get back to his roots, train hard, drop a kick-ass album, and re-claim his rightful place on the throne as the fuckin' king of rock n roll!!! ?Anyone else agree???

I agree, Axl has to reclaim his throne, but he can only do it, with the company of his old friends.

By the way, that picture is sad, and at the same time is great, new ones of them must be snapped soon, come on AXL! what were you thinking, Slash obviously still loves GUNS, and the other guns too,? if Matt once said, what is with the piano, I say, What is with the bucket?? ?

Some day we will see the real guns n roses together again, and that day my friends, that day will be magical even more magical than Chinese Democracy.

By the way, there was love once between them, how can you forget that love? imposible it would be like forgetting a brother....

waitasec , rocky released an album?!

Axl's style was much cooler in 93. What happened? he needs to start hanging out with cool people again instead of earl the bodyguard, BH and Fortus.

well d-uh..what do you think put the rock in Rocky! :P

During the Making of Estranged video, Slash and Axl are clearly shown talking together about the album which would become known as the Spaghetti Incident; the scene they were filming was the one where Slash appears to float down Sunset.

This pic is interesting but I think people are looking a bit too much into it. 

hahaha , nice!!!  :hihi:

Wow, really cool pic. Haven't seen that one before... Looks like something out of a 60's B/W movie...  :)

I have the "Making of Estranged"on my computer and they saw each other and talked during the making. : ok:

Yes, they are talking about the title of the cover album, because Axl makes "" marks with his hands.

by the rainbow they mentioned TSI...

You know a lot of groups come n go for whatever reasons, but later in life they learn to accept their band member's differences and exist together.. SHame after all this time and with the demand for the real gnr that these guys can't just get it together and let the past be the past.... This time around would be a little easier being guys are sober and family men.. We all fuck up and over indulge in our youth..

Aaah!! No! Don't say that!!! :nervous: :'(

good call, you're absolutely correct...

Axl said that, but the others had a different story. Slash was still in the band in late 1996, it doesn't matter what Axl's saying.

BTW I wouldn't see too much into this picture. Sometimes there is a distance between people. Sometimes they're standing closer. That's it.

Interesting attitude.  :hihi:

Slash left to promote the Snakepit album in early 1995. Then he toured with the band.

He went back to GN'R after that but it didn't work out and he officially quit.

Maybe Axl knew it was over even before Slash started the Snakepit promotion and tour while Slash wanted to give it a final shot....  ???




/jarmo

when isn't something gnr related not looked into way to much :rofl:

Slash looks annoyed to me in this picture  :-\

pic of one of the best axe men and frontmen.. Such a shame.. Maybe axl was yelling at slash :o

If he had known it was over why did it take him another 2 years to send a fax? Why did Slash and Matt keep saying in 1995 and 1996 that Slash was still in the band and they were working on new material with a new guitarist? (In other stories: with Axl as a rhythm guitarist?IAs you wrote it he went back to GN'R. So he was involved. I think it's safer to say that Axl was angry of Slash and he wrote that bullshit in the fax. If someone asks him today, he'll probably tell a different date of Slash's leaving.

Jarmo,
You got some very interesting pics on that thread of rare GNR pics.
I still think that this pic is the most interesting BY FAR, considering the way things have gone down with GNR in the last 12 years.
I'm glad I could help people see this pic now, it deserves its own thread of discussion.

MNR

Because he's Axl?  :hihi:



I suspect there were some legal things going on that might have made it a bit more difficult.

Axl was probably angry, but I think he might have had a reason for saying what he did. Maybe Slash was more into doing Snakepit than trying to adjust to the GN'R situation? Axl saw that and knew it was over. Is that possible?



/jarmo

I dont see anything weird in this picture, you are all nuts....

Axl is just talking to Slash and thats it... I dont see why Axl should be sitting on Slash's lap in order to not seem "distant" in your eyes...  ::)

Holding hands would also work!  :hihi:



/jarmo

I bet Slash went like this--->  :drool: for Axl in the glam days  :rofl:

 :love:

I agree with killingvector, everybody is reading more into this photo than was actually there.  the two of them kept working together after this picture so it wasn't like a "parting glance" or anything.

......as you feel that you deserve to pat yourself on your back.

Some people are just to blind to see...

Look at their eyes and the body language. This is one of the greatest photos in rock history ever. It's a DOCUMENT. It says more than 100 promo shots.

This post takes the cake!
I would say it is certainly the most significant GNR photo I have ever seen.
I recall that there is no photo/promo photo taken of GNR after 1991 when they were shooting for the back cover for the UYI record. The band certainly grew apart over time and this photo indicates just how distant things were by 1993 between Axl and the group.

BTW, some of the GNR fans out here think that this pic shows nothing significant about GNR.
Obviously it did since Axl Rose took issue with the pic and almost tore it in half to take it and never have it for fans to see. This is the same Axl Rose who almost didn't put out the NOvmeber Rain video and the UYI records, thereby nearly denying us fans even more of our favorite band, much like he's been denying GNR fans the nu material.

MNR

i like it, whether what occured at the time was relevent or not, in hindsight its a great photo, cause it does look like they're distant, and slash looks like he's thinking, 'i don't need this shit anymore', even if he was thinking, 'should i fuck the blonde, or the brunette, or both'


rock n' roll

Why does it take the cake? Because the person agrees with you?

I read the caption and it says that Axl tried to take the pic and it tore as a result; it doesn't say that he tried to tear it in half so that fans could never see it. You are assuming that. I

i guess there are only a couple of pics on the internet of Axl between 1994 - 1999, And thats the mugshoot and the one were he has a beird and over his hair with a bandana??

I find the Vegas 1-1-1 pics of Axl to be much more interesting than this one.  The most significant photo of the band was probably one from their early days. As I said, it is interesting, but because they did work with each after this point, its significance is muted.



Wow, I didn't even catch this comment the first time I read your post.  I doubt very much you know what is going on behind the scenes with the new band, therefore, uneducated statements like this mean nothing to me.

nice post, i tend to think the same thing, although it could very well be a coincident...

Who is the photographer? Did he make any other GN'R photos? Does he have a website or a book out? I'd like to see more of his stuff...

The name on the caption is Gene Kirkland.
As far as I know, this is the only pic I know that I he took of GNR.
I assumed that Robert John was the official photographer of GNR.

MNR

I guess you haven't seen his web site then:
http://genekirklandphotography.com/port.htm




/jarmo

Thanks for that link.

It looks like Slash doesnt give a fuck what Axl is going on about, IMO

Look closer - it kinda looks like Axl is about to throw a cup of water over Slash :rofl:

I was just trying to explain why in my opinion Axl reacted that way when the picture was shown to him, nothing more, nothing less. As I and Jarmo explained, maybe he already knew it was over. We can't say for sure what he thought at that time.

A little contradiction against the 'Axl knew it was over' theory that after the Snakepit tour they tried out the Slash-Zakk Wylde collaboration. So I still don't see any proof that 'Axl knew it was over'... only some Axl-fans are trying to prove that Axl said the truth in his fax. (BTW I don't want to turn it into an 'Axl is a liar' thread, since - surprise - everyone lies. But some Axl/Slash/Duff/Izzy/Dizzy/Tommy etc. fans can't accept that their hero is only a human being.)

"I Spent A Week Jammin' With Guns N' Roses". Zakk Wylde to join GN'R?! (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=65)
Kerrang! 530 January 28, 1995


That was published before the Snakepit album was released and before Slash went on tour with that band.



/jarmo

I can only speak of 1995, I have several old interviews of slash and even watched him speak with kurt loder at the 95 vmas and he said something like guns is guns and he is working on snakepit and after that he will be back working on gnr related things.. basically when they need me I wil be there.. There was no indication that he was out or leaving or had left.. I really felt back then it was just some guys who needed a breather...

Yeah, Slash said he'd go back to GN'R and see what Axl had done while he was away.


I don't think he could see himself quitting the band. Maybe Axl could see GN'R continuing without Slash at some point.




/jarmo

But when Izzy came back for some weeks he wrote with Slash, Duff and Matt (and supposedly Axl). So Slash was involved. The person who seems to be involved the least is Axl. If you read the old interviews and articles (as you do), everyone's saying that the maximum of his contribution was sitting in the rehearsal room and saying 'I want this, work on it; I don't want this, forget it'. And hasn't written a line, hasn't sung a note.

It refers to late 1994

How much work towards the next Guns album did you expect the rest of the band to have done when you finished the Snakepit tour?

"When I left town, Axl and Matt and Duff and I had worked on new material. I hadn't heard Axl sing anything, but he was there while we were fucking around jamming.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=16

1996:

The mega-selling bad boys of late '80s, early '90s rock are back together rehearsing songs for their first album in five years.So says Guns N' Roses drummer Matt Sorum, on the phone recently from his Hollywood Hills home, right next door, he adds with a chuckle, to '80s bad girl Madonna.

"We're definitely getting geared up to do another record," says Sorum, who brings his all-star side band, Neurotic Outsiders, to the Warehouse on Sunday.

"We're already starting to make tour plans. We've got a possible tour starting in South America in January and then we're going to stop and finish the record and probably tour next summer."

But, Sorum adds cheerfully, the status of G N' R - which has so far survived a revolving door lineup (guitarist Gilby Clarke was the most recent exit, keyboardist Dizzy Reed is back in) ???, substance abuse problems, and notorious lead singer Axl Rose - could change tomorrow and "G N' R could break up next month."

But Sorum reports in the last week that Slash has been rehearsing with G N' R bassist Duff McKagan (who plays guitar in Neurotic Outsiders), Rose, Reed and "an anonymous guitar player" who may or may not be Clarke's replacement, and Sorum.

"It sounds like the band again. Everybody's in good shape and Duff's looking really good and healthy. It was good that we took the time off, because at the end of the tour Duff was one foot in the grave. I mean it was like we were all drugged out. We just all stepped back out of the whole rock and roll debauchery for a while and just sort of mellowed."



http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=89

Are Guns N' Roses back together in the studio as a band, or are you recording your various parts separately?
Slash Says: At this point in time we have only been collaborating together. But we have been doing mostly Axl's material.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=142

thats because Axl had a vision of what GNr should be trying next and he wasnt going to do anything until it got to that point. He wasnt gonna settle for snakepit type stuff if he didnt have that in mind. SO he wasnt gonna work on it.

I'm not saying Slash didn't come back at all. I know he did.  ::)

All I'm saying that maybe Axl suspected already in 1994/95 that it was over. Axl and Slash had different ideas of what the next GN'R record should be so Slash took the songs and did his Snakepit thing.

Then he returned and they still couldn't work out their differences. So he quit....


I guess this might be something that could be brought up in the lawsuits....



/jarmo

On topic with the picture, I saw the concert in Buenos Aires and they hugged and loved  :-* each other just before they went backstage, I doubt they hated each other right there.

Didnt Slash quit the band, after returning from the Snakepit stuff, because nothing was going on and he knew nothing was gonna go in the next years because Axl wasnt ready (be it lawsuits,personal problems,etc)??

I'm not sure I see any link between your post and mine. I was merely trying to explain why in my opinion Axl reacted that way, I'm not saying anyone is lying or whatever (I don't think I even used the words "lie" or "truth" in any of my posts). I don't see how reporting what I saw in a fax from Axl to explain his reaction turns me (or anyone else who tries to explain his reactions) into an Axl-fan who can't accept his "hero is only a human being." Explaining is not condoning. And again, I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just giving my opinion about this story.

Even though they tried out a Slash/ Wylde collaboration later on doesn't mean Axl didn't believe in it even then and thought it was maybe over. No one knows what he was thinking. Maybe he did believe in it, who knows? These are just theories, none of us absolutely has to be right or wrong.

It surprises me how alot of fans dont remember how Dizzy wasn't in the band for a period of time in 94-95. GNR were a 4 member band(Axl,Slash,Duff, and Matt). No reason was ever given concerning his departure, and no mention about why he came back. I always figured it was because they were gonna do a hard rock album and didn't need keyboards. When/If Axl comes back, someone should ask him about that moment in time.

I didnt know that, but a hard rock album, that had been like a come back to the gnr roots, another improved AFD. Great

Yeah, add it to the list of things we'll never get to here. :hihi:

well I think gnr would had did better in the mainstream back in the 90's if they didn't do so many ballads, basically went from estranged to since I don't have you.. A nice back to what made them big would had been nice.. Another jungle type song.. :drool:

Some people blame Slash and Duff, for trying to make the same music, and then, they got bored and left the band. But What else could the do, if GNR once used to be about nothing but the best Hard Rock ever. And how selfish can you be, to destroy a band of brothers, I mean, He could have gone Solo, remember he is "genious "but no, he prefered to have the rights and the name of the band and in 2002 sing Hard Rock songs, even Think About you, by Izzy and later not even opening the door to him.

cool pic, really sad that its the last pic of them straight after their final live performance togethor, That one needs framing.

pretty heavy speculations going on in here, lol.
I think Axl wanted to keep the picture for himself cos it's s good picture and cos it was taken the last day of the UYI tour....isn't that possible?

Well he could have just asked the guy for a copy instead of "trying to grab it"  :hihi: 

Whatever, it's one hell of a cool photography.

no no, the picture is so cool, Axl had to have it immediately! ;D

Better luck if someone asks dizzy... see what he says about it

Very cool picture.

I don't necessarily see a "rift" between them there... just two thoroughly exhausted rock stars... in desperate need of a vacation from everything.

Obviously Axl was screwing around with the techno sh1t as early as '91, but I have to believe that his initial hope was that the core band (Axl, Slash and Duff) would be able to reconcile and evolve together. That certainly would make his job a lot easier in trying to plow ahead with the GN'R name. I think things became irreconciable in 95-96 when Axl realized that Slash would NEVER evolve the GN'R sound as drastically as Axl thought necessary and would likewise would not make room for another quality guitarist... yada yada yada yada.... but I think all those conclusions had not yet been made in '93. If they were p1ssed and irritated with each other in '93... it probably had much more to do with being with each other all over the world for 2.5 years straight... Axl's ridiculous touring habits/demands... and the full feature productions the band's videos had become...

 :hihi: :hihi: Funniest post i've read today

Okay heres my thoughts on this pic:
1.there is a space between axl and slash
2.it looks like axl is yelling at slash and slash is just ignoring him or talking it all in and being very annoyed because of it
3.that was proabably the last glance of friendship between them, just because they worked together after the pic dosent mean they were still friends
4. axl tried to take it because he dident want anyone to see that pic because of it being the last glance o friendship between him and slash and that was a very emotanal thing for him.
again these are just my opinions.
                                                :beer: get wasted like slash n duff used to :beer:
                                                                            :peace: Black Out :smoking: