Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In the DVD AXL ROSE THE PRETTIEST STAR, Axl's early band members talk about how Axl would get mad and angry and storm off, saying "Fuck You". There was one story about Axl getting pissed over something and quitting the band .......but he lived in the guitarist's house!!

i just find it funny that this guy was nuts from the start. he's real, maybe the only TRUE real star out there these days. Musicians and celebs seem really fake these days. Axl is real. Crazy then, Crazy now. Imagine Axl, circa 1992, walking into a celeb party in CA...all heads probably focused on him, and everyone in the room knew Axl Rose just walked in.

Axl is the real deal, he's a person with alot going on and has great ideas. He shares his life with us by the music he writes. That's gotta take alot out of a guy, and of course that takes time.  I really admire the guy for being himself and not a fake. Way to go AXL : ok: 

 :rofl:

Why funny?

I can't find anything too far from the truth or funny in what Luigi is saying there. 

haha

its funny cuz he may share his thoughts in his music, but he does not share his music with his fans ;)

Dude that just made my day, fucken comedy!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 : ok:

A touch of pathos?but is it that funny?  :confused:

I didn?t know it was your idea of fun that he does not share his music with you.

Axl was once a great rock star. Keyword: was. Fame and money took its toll and he went the opposite of the Cobain route. 2 rock stars, 2 different reactions.

But ONE HUGE (!!) difference!    Axl never had Courtney to hire someone to shoot him,  so that she could inherit all his money in case he decides to divorce her,  which he did.

yeah you hit the nail on my head with that post.axl is the realest guy around belive me.i just shake my head and say there goes axl going off again lol.just another axl blowing steam off.nothing anymore surprizes me about axl.sometimes i look forward to a good axl rant myself.

Axl's the true definition of a Diva---great voice (loud and booming), costume changes, and the tantrums to match.  He's great!  We all love to see him perform (the guy obvioulsy is gifted) and love the drama of his life.  He is very open considering somec elebs, but still knows when to draw the line (i.e. even at the height of fame, he wasn't on every talk show/magazine...he picked and chose the classy route). 
He's awsome...sure fame changed him a bit, but considering the amount of fame, money, women, drugs that were offered he still had his head on straight (relatively speaking)...just think of other huge celebs, and how they couldn't cope w/ fame (eg. Cobain, Jacko, etc...).  He was always a tyrant/fired-up red head, and I wouldn't change it for the world!   :-*

but thats just the point though....fame didnt really change him....

case point: Right when they were ready to leave Vicki Hamiltion's house to sign the record contract, Axl got pissed about his pants not being washed or pressed or something, and stormed off. they found him later on (they went out to search for him b/c they WERE LATE TO SIGN THE DEAL!!!!)

but when they found him, he was sitting on top of the Whiskey (i think, or a tower records store...some place, but he was sitting on TOP of the store)

always was crazy, he just "made it and got famous". i love it! whether axl was famous or not, he'd still being throwing tantrums. he just does it now in a mansion. imagine william bailey became like a teacher or something?!?!?! he'd be throwing kids out of the windows.

Besides Axl, I think Manson has been the last true rock icon.

Charles or Marilyn?????

throwing hissy fits and always wanting things your way doesn't make you a star..

We have a guy at work who if something doesn't go his way or if something is to difficult he gets like a baby throwing his tools and storming off pouting like a child... Needless to say eevryone can't stand the guy and pray that he isn't their partner

These are the kind of guys you have to walk on egg shells with, you almost can't be yourself because you always have to wonder if you say the wrong thing will the baby explode cause a scene then storm off

These people are primidonas and they suck to work with or be around.. They are alright when things are easy n smooth but beware when something is tough or doesn't go their way

Shirley!

Nah, I meant Marilyn.

I almost spit my Coke out when I read that one. Great visual.

that's if he showed up to class :D

Nah, you're not negative at all...

W23 AXL the 2 ;), I read an Izzy interview when he said that Axl had this same behavior since he was a kid, back in Indiana. Well that says even more. A shy little red guy with a lot of talent.

*Police megaphone voice* Sir put down the crazy pills and slowly back away from the vehicle.

And if Axl had died in '92, he'd have the same status as Cobain has now. If Cobain hadn't died in '94, who knows? Maybe he'd be selling 300,000 in 2005 albums like Pearl Jam.

its pretty incredible.....a pre-teen Axl getting pissed over things....just proves again how "real" this celebrity/star/rock icon really is. he's really the last true real rock star.


anyone know anything about the felt forum show in 88, in nyc?

I was at that show, fuckin great! : ok:

if axl had died shortly after the illusions came out he would have been known as a legend like joplin or hendrix..  Everyone would sit aroiund saying how gnr would have been the biggest rock band ever and so on.. Who would have thought 14 years later there would still be nothing but some rumors and some new group

its not only a shame, but quit disgusting, what has happened to the gnr name.

if axl doesn't want to do this anymore, thats cool,its his life obviously.....but he's kinda dragged this thing out, and in doing so, is hurting the legitimacy of the GnR brand. its become a joke to most people, except us.

on a side note, i dont really like Robin's intro to Paradise City. i do, however, really enjoy listening to, and playing, his intro from sweet child. but what was he thinking for the intro to PC???

I agree, he should shot himself in the head back in the early 90's, at least people would still have a positive impression of him and GnR instead of the laughingstock he's turned the name into

He hasn't really turned it into a laughingstock....he just hasn't turned it into anything. Which is sad.

Maybe one day we'll hear the album and we'll see what's what.

people still say that...and better yet, they all have their heads on them

I don't think Axl was ever destined to be the "voice of a generation" by any means, dead or alive.

Wrong place, wrong time...

Voice of a Generation or not...Axl has made an impact on millions of people, and generations

What, if any, would have been the right place and time?

I think if AXL would've died a few years ago he would be so overrated and I prefer him alive right now than dead living in dreams.  :peace:
I think that Axl is alive for the best for everyone of us even if his music doesn't trascend to the new generation I know it will be a great part of my life and music history.

dont let the whole nirvana/grunge thing fool you...just look at the GH sales and even the old album sales and that will tell you all you need to know about GNR/Axl transcending and impacting newer generations

Great question.

I'm not sure if there was a time when Axl/GNR could have forged that legacy considering the scene he/GNR emerged from and how the wild success manifested itself into overblown excess. 
When things become so big as they did with GNR, it gets hard to comprehend.  Things became larger than life and kids looked for something else they could grab a hold of, something more relateable to their everyday lives.

I agree. But at the same time people miss overblown pomp and rock stat excess. Besides Manson, there really hasn't been a great "rock star" (not anti-rock star) since Manson, and as much as I like him, he's no Axl.

to bad the last though will be of axl getting  a whole new band and tanking at the vmas... The best memory would have been if sftd was the last song under the gnr name.. They would have been from 1985 to say 1994 and it would had been some positive memories.. great bands break up and their music lasts.. No one expected gnr to last forever, sometimes I am amazed they got passed a few years.

It would be  a shame if you have a newer gnr with members that have been there since the late 90's to never have really done anything with the band... Sure there has been lots of things done behind the scenes but who will ever remember them except the die hards who checked sites or interviewed new members at their seperate gigs...

They hardly "tanked" at the VMAs. Tanking would be getting booed off the stage.

your talking as if GNr dont have some kind of legacy or didnt stamp themselves into rnr history. Watch that VH1 show "when metal ruled the world". They talk about the 80s hair metal scene and how overblown it got and then "out of nowhere comes this little band, guns n roses, and all bets are off". Gnr were different. They started a new trend a new look a new image. It last them until 92. In that time they sold millions and millions of albums. Released a double album. Set records. And in that short period of time they carved themselves out to be one of the GREATEST rnr bands that we will ever see. Did it get overblown at the end. Of course. But the band was young. They didnt get any chances to redeem themselves like many bands do. Instead of blowing their heads off they burnt out. And honestly there is a bigger mystique about Axl and what hes doing than WHat would Cobain be doing right now.

How did it bomb? You might not have liked how they performed and some people might not have liked how Axl looked but that doesnt mean they tanked. Listen to the crowd after the performance. They werent silent or booing. They were cheering.

I honestly love when I read this. If the GNr name is tarnished and no1 has positive memories of old gnr, how come the gh and old albums are still selling by the truckload? I know, I know, all the hs kids want the album to match the trendy shirts. If the name is tarnished why would promoters throw unimaginable amounts of monet for the old band to return? Why would promotors wanna book GNr to RIR every time?

Maybe in America GNR arent as appreciated as you would like but around the world, gnr are still top noth. Here we have bootleg djs trying to be funny. Axl is an easy target. But you know what...

He might have went to far in the 90;s with the shoes,tours,fur coats and all that....but where is the rockstar today? Where has he been since he left? Thats what RNR is all about. Being crazy, extreme doing WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT....WHETherR PEOPEL THINK ITS COOL OR NOT, WHETHER KIDS THINK ITS COOL OR NOT. O yea and they had the music to back it up

-

I meant how axl sounded then how later on the talk of the vmas was more about axl's looks rather then about music...




whoever said the gnr name was tarnished, I said how the last memories of gnr at least for me is of the vmas. I should have said the more die hards..
Of course the gnr name isn't tarnished do to the new band, no one knows the new band.. They sell good because gnr are now rock icons, classic rock will always live on.. afd is one of the best rock albums ever..

so then the public has positive memories of gnr

No I'm not.? I'm talking about Axl not forging a "voice of a generation" type legacy.?


Try watching to the end show, talks about the emergence of another band/scene that effectively shut down the Sunset Strip...


Different than what? Poison?? You might want to take a look at Aerosmith back in the 70's, GNR did little to update the look or the image...?


Pure speculation....

Anyway...None of this is meant to diminish GNR's accomplishments whatsoever.? That said, the fact of the matter is Axl is just not regarded in the same light as some (who'll remain nameless as to avoid all
mention of the "N" band).?

Get used to it, it's not going to change.

anyone who didn't see the vmas does.. That is the only event I know of that people saw who weren't following the gnr saga purposely. The people I speak of are people who knew I liked gnr or listened to their music and had some interest back during either afd or illusions...
 They all asked what happened, they had the picture of what gnr was with at least axl n slash..

I hate using any other band as an example but I also like metallica.. Just imagine if they were gone for many years and all of a sudden they closed the vmas and james hetfield had braides looking rapper like and kirk hammett was gone as was lars and there was some guy with a bucket on his head or another guy looking pale like a goth rocker type.. I would be like who the fuck is this, what happened to the band .. That is basically what people I knew though of it.. They'd claim to be metallica but most people would say this isn't them, it's just james and some random guys..

A question.

Who is the "voice of a generation" type legacy?

Somehow the title doesn't appeal to me.
From the sound of it, it would be quite a heavy burden for an artist who is to communicate with other generations as well.

A few come to mind; Dylan, Joplin, Morrison and Lydon to a lesser degree.  You can guess the other.

And I agree, it's a huge cross to bare

Falcon, I think Axl could overtake Cobain in mystique with another run of great albums. He does have an advantage of actually being alive-at least we think! :rofl: Of course, he has to do something. Also, the only mystique Cobain has left is with the US press, US alternative rock radio, and a handful of old, faithful fans in the US and maybe England. Axl still overshadows Cobain on a worldwide scale. You do tend to forget or acknowledge Gnr's relevance worldwide. They are simply a bigger band than Nirvana ever was. Facts are facts. :beer: It's friday-almost happy hour-get those Bucket pics up.

They are all still loved, however

Joplin, Morrison - RIP, buried with the generation.

Dylan,  Lydon    - Alive and kicking, has changed and are doing jolly well yet best known for the early/the first acts.

Axl would be on there too if he died at 27. When alive, many though Morrison to be a pretentious windbag. The "Soft Parade" album is chock full 'o strings, just like GN'R's "Bloated" NR.

By the way, the only voices of a generation in the 60's were the Beatles and Dylan. Hendrix would probably be third due to his influence on all things electric guitar. Joplin, Morrison, et al don't have ANYTHING on Axl. Axl defined the late eighties as much as Morrison or Joplin defined the late 60's. Dylan and the Beatles had masterpieces which extended throughout the decade. Morrison only had a three year run and Joplin even less. Axl's run was from late 87 to 91. And, yes, the release of the Illusions count because of the hysteria and publicity that surrounded the release of the record, the St. Louis riot and other mayhem that ensued up through the departure of Mr. Stradlin in Nov 91. The point where I wish the band would have broken up and called it quits.

That's your opinion and I'm cool with that, I'm sure you know what guy and the band it always come back to with the loyalists.  The inferiority complex is still prevelent...

Cobain defined the 90's or at least late 91 to 95. He was the voice of that generation. No questions ask. 8)

I love Nirvana, and this is in no way a diss, but the term "Voice of a generation" is a social construction. Something that egghead writers at RS make up. Why isn't Vedder or Reznor called "The voice of a generation." As a society, we like to label people one way or the other. If Axl had died in 1992, those same writers would be hailing the Illusion albums as a masterpiece and Axl an avant-garde genius. Case in point: When John Lennon's "Double Fantasy" was released, in Nov of '80, critics initially said it sucked, was too sappy, etc. Then after Lennon's assassination, those reviews were pulled and now the album is hailed as one of Lennon's finest albums.

As I've said many times before, one defined a movement, the other enhanced a scene near the end of it's run.?

I'll leave it at that? :yes:

Still working on the BH pix from Tuesday, the inevitable 'technical difficulties", damn it.

Richard, I get your point and agree. But, as Falcon said, Cobain defined the movement and certainly benefited from his death. Commercially Pearl Jam was about even with Nirvana, maybe ahead. But, critically, and critics do matter to an extent, Nirvana is way out front. Fuck, who really cares? They are all great rock bands. And the 90's shit all over the last 6 years. : ok:

his death didn't affect the status of the Beatles and Dylan and Lydon didn't die that young, did they? ;)

Yep I agree that the term "Voice of a generation" is a social construction.
I assume not everyone in a generation is of the same opinion with others.
Or rather maybe 'the voice of a generation' has never been in the majority of each generation.

Thanks god Axl hasn't been killed by the generation. :peace:
Join the majority early and make your friends cry your foes gloat.

Cock-Rock was nearing its end. If Nirvana hadn't been the band, it would have been someone else.

Axl is as every bit as famous and important as Joplin, Cobain, Morrison, and more so than J. Rotten.

Even thoug Izzy is cooler :smoking:

The Beatles and Dylan are an exception. Lydon isn't all that talented, yes, I said it.

Kurt Cobain killed rock and roll

change in music has nothing to do with greatness imo.. Smells like teen spirit is a terrible song, but it gets ranked higher then any gnr song, shit higher then just about any rock song ever.. I remember by the early 90's every rocker was doiong shit like More then words, and every rose has it's thorn.. people became so sick of these ballads and hair bands alike.. The overdone rock star was at it's annoying peak and people needed a change..
 nevermind just came out at the exact time when change was needed. kurt cobain just seemed like some regular shmo, maybe that's what kids identified with..? Needless to say the man killed himself shortly after the swing in music happened so he's now a legend.. probably would have faded like every band does.. Smashing pumkins, stp, alice in chains, soundgarden, etc. or been a lower seller as time went on like PJ.. Nothing was bigger then TEN and jeremy...

So if nevermind came out in 89 I think it would have quitley sailed into the sunset maybe going gold, illusions come out in 1993 they sell maybe  amillion each.. November rain switches slots with estranged and you have the opposite hits..

 To refute your point about SLTS:

It is hardly a terrible song. The fact that someone could create a simple song and have it be so incredibly infectious demonstrates how talented Cobain was.

I really think both Rose and Cobain are/were brilliant in their own right. Rose is a grandiose visionary, and a "star" if ever there was one. Cobain the opposite, and could express himself and make terrific music with the simplistic arraignments. Apples and oranges, no need to say one is more of a legend than the other.

I like nirvana songs but I agree that change in music has little to do with musical greatness.
People always get bored quickly. besides generational change is natural.

Yeah Lydon is English. He's talented. (a relief is that no one mentions Sid.) But is it about the talent?

Axl is more famous than Joplin or Morrison, man.

And Axl, Lydon or anyone above ground is more important than any corpse below ground.

No1 is disputing Nirvanas emergence. But at the same time, those bands were a dime a dozen. Nirvana hit it big. But Pearl Jam could have easiy taken that throne as well. IMO Pearl Jam is 100x better and should be the band of that whole genre. But liek Cobain, those types of bands dont liek the attention and relaities of being a rockstar/band. Hence rock is dead nowadays. SDO yes most of their music is great and changed the way, it also didnt have a long life span. Those bands didnt have balls like GNR. Whether you think any of the stuff Axl and GNR did was cool or not they stll had the balls to do stuff and do whatever the hell they wanted how they wanted. They didnt shy away from the light when they were on top. They embraced it.

I dont care how people compare Axl and Cobain. CObain will always have his 1 song number 1 on all lists because of what it did. But Axl will top CObain in all other lists. Cobain is only famous because he blew off his head. Not saying he isnt talented. Cause he def is. And im sure Nirvana would have had an excellent career. But like GNR they would have probably burnt out themselves.

No offense but that scenario wouldn thappen because James Hetfield or any1 else of that calibur wouldnt have the balls to do anything like that...braids included. Of course peopel will be saying its Axl and sopme guys or James and some guys. No1 knows who they are yet. They dont have an album out and GNr havnt been heard from in years. So why should they know or accept that? When the material is out they will be able to decide for themselves if they wanna accept what they see. Until then, any1 has every right to be speculative of the band.

Bingo.

Axl might not have started a new sound but he is just as important to rnr as Cobain is.

Famous? Yes, even moreso.

Important?? Not a chance in hell.

This horse is dead.

Guns N' Roses "Greatest Hits" is still in the top 60 and it came out a year-and-a-half ago. So obviously Guns N' Roses and Axl Rose are still very important and mean a lot to a lot of people.

Besides, "Important" is just a word. What is or is not "important" is a matter of relevance.

As for Axl "not being regarded in the same light" as Cobain, that too is subjective. Ever read the reader reviews at amazon? Those opinions and reviews are just as valid as the pretentious eggheads over at allmusic.com or RS.

Sadly Cobain's fame, lies in his Death instead of his music.

While his death sealed his place as a legend, that doesn't mean his fame lies in death. If he were still alive today, he'd be very famous.

Grunge has been dead since about 1994!

I would say without a doubt today in the usa kurt cobain is much better known and recognized then axl rose.. I think one's status has grew while the other declined.. Definetly more people today know nirvana here over guns n roses..

To me axl rose and gnr is more important then kurt cobain but as a society curt is the dominant force.. To many people gnr was another hair band but no one will say nirvana was just another band..


to me back when metallica cut their hair being heavy metal gods that was a bigger shocker then axl sporting braides.. Something like the black album to me was a shock and risky based on their first 4 albums..

it doesn't matter anyways I was only talking about people who saw the last axl rose public performance that were outside the gnr message boards and how they reacted in ?my case.

To repeat what I said before, GN'Rs greatest hits is still in the top 60 and came out over a year and a half ago. That makes GN'R "pretty well known."

Just look at the album sales....gnr did somehting right and mean something still to this day.

They are both on the same level. Cobain is considered much cooler than Axl here in the US. Worldwide, GNR own Nirvana. They were both huge bands though. How has Cobains status grown? His claim to fame is he blew off his head. ?Cobain made an impact with his new style of music but Axl has made an equal impact with the music he did.

WHat other hair bands from the gnr era seel anywhere close to what GNr does. And name 1 that hasnt done shit since 92 and is still very much relevant.

to me, leaving the music scene when on top, not being complacent with what you have, not letting the pressure of making up with your old band, making a new band with the same name, and releasing the album when you want to all adds up to a big risk and some balls to me


and im sick and tired of this grunge thing. I love the music. All of the bands I listen to are basically from the 90's. But its justs o overfukin rated. Grunge killed rock. There is no rock. Grunge is rock but with no fukin balls. There all pussy full of maggots hiding. Where are the rockstars. I could careless if peopel think Axl is nto cool. WHy because he lieks to be over the top? Who cares. When Axl had the world by the balls he faced it. The way he wanted. And when CD comes out he will again show why he one of the GREATEST all around frontmen music has ever seen.

I dont know how this thread reached the point to talk about Nirvana, but they guy is extremely famous because of his death. And musically speaking their music is really simple.

I really don't think guns n roses or axl rose left the music scene while on top.. No doubt their attendance was still awesome in 1993 but their demand dropped because of the swing in musical genre.. When I see a killer tune like estranged being all but forgotten struggling to make it and another single like sidhy doing terrible as with TSI which peaked at number 3. Gnr with estranged was getting beat by last dance with mary jane on mtv, sidhy was getting beat by mother from danzig.. Barely anyone knows TSI..


I never said gnr was a hair band I said the community sees them as one, not all but enough where there is comments.. Kurt cobain usually tops every rock list voted on by fans or rock critics so someone in the usa sees him and what he accomplished over axl or gnr.. No doubt they own his ass outside of here.
I think motley crue is doing a damn good job touring sales wise.. The king of hairbands bon jovi has done more then both put together since 1992 between albums sales or concert sales.. BJ could have five nights in one stadium and sell out all their gigs..


that's exactly why people loved it.. people don't understand we ended a decade of excess. the start of the 90's was a continuation  of the overdone 80's.. Change was needed..

yes it is selling great.. Why I don't know, there is no advertisements for the damn thing..  Great music.. Afd still sells awesome, maybe some people want it all without buying seperate albums ???

GNR were still at the top of their game. If they released an album in 95/96ish they would have been right on par with Nirvana and all the other top bands. Being that they released TSI and there was a lot of speculation on the future of the band thta kinda pushed them aside a little. but a follow up album and DEFINETLY ?tour would have done great.

You, I and everyone else here knows the reasons why Estranged didnt catch on. That song should have never been released as a single. Especially in the same period of NR. You cant put out 2 monster songs liek that in terms of length. Plus Estranged is not a radio type song like NR is. Also the video was over the top. That turned many people off.

Estranged is the greates dam song ever recorded. I dont care what any1 says. The lyrics, the music is so fukin amazing. I listen to that song every day. Its so amazing. The way Axl sings it and the way the band plays on it. When I first got into GNR I never really liekd the song. I thought it was boring and long. But as you get older, as you live life that song hits home. Its just not a radio song. U2 or Eminem can release that song right now and it wouldnt work well on the radio.

Let me see them put out an album of new material that matches what they did in their prime. And thats exactely what Ill be expecting from GNR when CD comes out. Not just a regular album that is supported by a well reconized name and old material. An album that will give the old material a run for its money. You cant bring up these bands because they are bands that are comfortable with their past and havnt tried new things. Im not saying its a bad thing. But its not what Axl/gnr are gonan do.

Gnr were never a band that stayed with a formula. Unfortunaltely that style and attitude might have broken up the old band but atleast whenever we get a new album it will be different from the last and more than likely it will be as good if not better than those albums.

Yep exactely. But what has the grunge era inspired exactely? Rock has been dead for years now...music is 1 big cycle. thats why the grunge thing is overated. yea change was needed and those bands provided it. But change will always be needed. But nothing has come out of the grunge era since they were big. Where are those inspirations? The hwole lets not be cool attitude is so boring and uninspiring. It doesnt get a rise out of people like Axl did. Axl is the type that you love or hate. And thats good because it provides motivation and inspiration for people who either liek him or hate him. What does CObain inspire? Since the late 90's its been pop and rap. music is 1 big cycle. bands like Jett, Darkness, etc had the right kind of mucis but no uniqueness. Maybe they are a product of the music business IDK. Everything is predicatble.

I am only quoting this because the answers are getting large.. I agree estranged is a great song, I love the lyrics and the guitar work..
They didn't not only have bad choice but it was because that type of song was not "in" anymore.. Switch november rain with estranged from 91 to 93 and they would be opposites.. MTV played the living shit out of NR, and the timing was right too... Start of the 90's was ballad central.. The people I hung with in 1993 had moved on past gnr, and yes there are a lot of trendy fuckers out there that also help make bands bigger then life.. Tons of posers that threw their gnr motley crue or metallica shirts out for nirvana pj stp ones. I also think because of the video for estranged with seemed like a lot of shit going to many ways.. it wasn't something the causal guy might get or want to sit to understand

it all ends with timing, estranged switch with november rain is a hit, novemeber rain in 1993 is a estranged

Whoever thought it was smart to release yet another ballad in 1993 with SIDHY was crazy

I can't tell you directly.. I really don't know.. When I see something as simple as the white stripes it reminds me of something like a nirvana..  To me grunge is rock anyways, just a little darker but it's all the same

Im not sure about that. You could be right but I just dont thing Estranged is a radio song. NR is an easy song to get into and relate to

agreed, that point in time it just didnt work. thats why it wasnt smart to release it. It was time to move on from the Illusion era and delve into newer things.
But the great thing about Estranged and almost all of GNr music is that it all stands the test of time. Those songs sound just as fresh and new now as they did when it  was big. Im 20 years old and have been a huge gnr fan for 5 years now. I had no business falling in love with gnr and the material. All my friends are into rap. To me the music will never lose its greatness.

anyways...Estranged is amazing :peace:

Well, I can.

The influence of that era was and still is the most impactful chain of events to happen to rock music since the punk movement in 1977.

Grunge changed the way bands were perceived, how radio was programmed, what bands were signed at what bands got dropped.

Grunge was to the Sunset Strip as what punk was to disco, what CBGB's was to Studio 54...

Simply put, it made bands that were considered cool uncool.

The personification of influence.

ZI was saying I don't know what bands today grunge has influeced.. I know the whole movement and how it changed the entire face of music at the time.. By 1994 I remember seeing greenday and the offspring all over the place.. You had your collective soul and candlebox then rage korn 311 and all those bands.. Foo fighters might have been insprired by nirvana :hihi:

Understood.

I was showing how inspiration/influence runs much deeper than meets the ear, some of the faithful here are either too young or to myopic (or both) to understand just how powerful that time was.

While the emergence of the Seattle scene did hurt GN'R, I reject the idea that Nirvana "killed" Guns N' Roses. Lest revisionists have there way, remember that in '93, Nirvana were having trouble selling out arenas in the US, while Guns continued to play stadiums.

In the final analysis, I really think Guns N' Roses killed Guns N' Roses. While GN'R were uncool amongst the hipsters and their flock of sheep in the 90s, had GN'R released an album at any time after '94, it no doubt would have been a hit. Like Aerosmith and Van Halen (before the lead singer fiasco) Guns N' Roses could have weathered the alt. 90s.

I agree, it's just too bad they didn't stay active.

Falcon, although you're one of my favorite posters on here and I have no problem with your last couple posts in this thread, some of the earlier stuff is crazy. It's hard to explain, really. I think your main flaw is that your "music historian" schtick comes off trendy sometimes. If MTV, Fuse, Rolling Stone, Spin, and all the usual suspects lauched a grand scheme to push Blink 182 for the next 10 years as cultural icons, musical visionaries, and the originators of the "sing in a voice that sounds like someone's pinching your nose" scene that shook the world in the early 2000's, you'd be the first person to fall for it. And you'd probably even beat everyone else over the head with the words "seminal", "important", and "relevant" a few thousand times for good measure.

I like Nirvana though. Good band.

Thanks.



Examples?


I only cite the punk and grunge movements in historical perspectives, you don't see me touting Rap/Eminem or Rap/Rock? and Linkin Park by any means, both shoved down our throats by "MTV, Fuse, Rolling Stone, Spin, and all the usual suspects" now do you?

So much for the "trendy" theory....


And some still don't understand the difference between those words and "big" or "popular"..


Me too.

Jeez... this has turned into another Gn'R vs Nirvana and Axl vs Kurt thing. ::)

Can we please stop. It doesn't fucking matter!! OK!!   :rant:

All that matters is when Axl is going to release Chinese Democracy! That is all I care about! I couldn't care less about what HAS happened! I care about what is GOING to happen! :beer:

I reject both ideas. GN'R is alive.
the one who killed oneself is Kurt. He is history.
He stopped his time early and hasn't advanced in anything since then. There's nothing cool about it.

Generational change necessarily takes place continually in living society/culture like Metabolism in living things.

Trend! vogue!


I can see the same thing, although on a smaller scale, happening right here in the GNR fandom.
That will make a great 'Chinese Democracy'. Hehe I bet Axl got his "music historian"  view as well.
Unfortunately while undergoing metabolic change alright, some of us are sorta like kurt in a sense.
'when your Great Wall rocks, you're out of time'

BTW My mama never told me that hair metal had been considered cool for once.  :hihi:
I figured it out that for its dead serious attitude, GNR stood out among/against the uncool bands just parodying 'the (then) old wave'.

Well, I have no interest in getting into a stereotypical HTGTH quote and retort war, but here are a couple examples:


That one?s debatable. Silvertide is an un-updated version of the Aerosmith. GNR was a completely modern version, and I don?t think you ever give them enough credit for being as unique as they were. Think of a stereotypical late-?80s/early-?90s hard rock/hair metal band. Now add a complete psychopathic contradiction of a frontman. Now add strong classic rock influence. Now add strong punk influence. I know you?re not a fan of much after 1988, but move to the Use Your Illusion era. Add the long epic rockers. Add the piano-heavy ballads. And if you?ll humor me enough to include the new stuff, add the industrial, electronica, and orchestral influence. Now when you look at the entire picture, tell me one band that?s the same as GNR? Want me to tell you one band that's the same as, say, Nirvana? I'd go with the Pixies. GNR's a band that shows their influences. Almost every band does though. It's not fair to act like they're completely derivative.


That downplays the GNR's influence. Axl's, in particular. While I don't disagree with Dylan or Lydon, popularity aside, to say that Axl was any less the voice of the late-80's than Joplin or Morrison was of their time is silly. And if he'd have died after GNR Lies, I'm sure you'd agree with me.


Important to who? The current shitty FM radio format? This is one of those occasions where you seem to put way too much importance in rock's current "chart-dominating" (*cough*) direction. And the "This horse is dead" type comment and smugish smilies don't help matters any. It's okay for people to disagree with you.


That raises an interesting point. Why don't you tout things such as the rap movement? In my opinion, it's been as ground-breaking and influential, or even more so, than the punk and grunge movements (particularly the grunge movement). Maybe it's just because rap doesn't appeal to you.

"Trendy" probably wasn't the best word I could have used. I was thinking of the scenester type folks that snub their noses at everything. The type of people that write for the aforementioned magazines. The type of people that think grunge was somehow more influential than rap. Fact-bending, history-rewriting, music fascists.

Half the time, I know I'm going to agree with your posts. The other half, I know I won't. But as interesting or well-worded as they're going to be, I also know they're going to be pretty much word for word what the average critic would say. "Voice of Reason" or not, it's okay to think outside the box once in awhile....

Sure it is, although the show/segment in question focused on AFD era GNR so I think the Aerosmith analogy is on the money.



Hardly silly, but that's your opinion and I respect it.


I documented the impact of that era enough, if you see otherwise, fine.


The "horse is dead" comment merely pointed out this thread was moving in a predictable direction that has been discussed more than once in the past.

And yes, it's okay for people to disagree with me.



I'm really not knowledgable as far as rap goes so my opinions on it are less than educated.? I'll leave those comparisons to people that have better insight on the genre.


Nice to hear you agree with me half the time, although I don't think you'll be confusing any of my opinions with David Fricke's anytime soon.


Yes it is.

This isn't the Bad Obsession section.

Topic locked.