Here Today... Gone To Hell!

US planning invasion, says Chavez

Venezuela's President, Hugo Chavez, says he is in possession of intelligence showing that the United States plans to invade his country.

In a BBC interview, Mr Chavez said the US was after his nation's oil, much as it had been after Iraq's.

But he stressed that any invasion would never be allowed to happen.

Mr Chavez has long accused Washington of being behind what he describes as a coup - claims the United States denies.

An attempt to unseat him three years ago was aborted.

The Venezuelan president was interviewed by the BBC's Robin Lustig in Paris, while on an official visit to France.

Asked why he thought the US was trying to invade Venezuela, Mr Chavez said: "We have denounced intentions.

"A coup happened in Venezuela that was prepared by the US. What do they want? Our oil, as they did in Iraq.

"We have detected with intelligence reports plans of a supposed invasion, one that would never happen. But we have to denounce it," Mr Chavez said.

Recently a US TV evangelist, Pat Robertson, called for his assassination. Mr Chavez said this would be "cheaper than invading Venezuela".

Mr Robertson's remarks were described by the US State Department as "inappropriate", and Mr Robertson later apologised for them.

'No threat'

Mr Chavez went on to describe the US as a terrorist government.

"It is an imperialist government, one that says it fights against terrorism but protects it. The US throws stones to Latin America.

"But apart from that, Venezuela is the world's fifth oil exporter, and we send a million and a half barrels to the US every day," he added.

"We sell oil to people. Another thing is our political differences that I wish could be toned down."

He also denied claims that Venezuela was a threat to the international community, saying that his country wanted open relations with the whole world - a multi-polar world - but "with respect".

"George W Bush should not have any reason to fear. If he does it is because he has a dark ghost in his subconscious," he said.

Controversial leader

Correspondents says the Venezuelan president has cultivated ties with other countries that have strained relations with the US - chiefly Cuba and Iran.

Washington officially sees him as an unfriendly head of state in South America.

Mr Chavez, 55, first came to prominence as a leader of a failed coup in 1992.

After being released from prison, he embarked on a political career that swept him to power in 1998, with a promise to transform Venezuela.

Relations with Washington reached a low when he accused it of "fighting terror with terror" during the war in Afghanistan after 11 September.

The situation hardly improved when Mr Chavez accused the US of being behind the failed coup to oust him in 2002, and of funding opposition groups.

The country's vast oil reserves - the largest in the Americas - have given it a strategic importance, but the US state department denies trying to overthrow the president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4359386.stm




Conspiracy theorists of the world UNITE!

Make no mistake, they will.  I really believe that half the posters on this site subscribe to infowars.com

Yeah, I think Chavez must have been hanging out too much with certain people from this board  :hihi:

Chavez must be getting some coke from Columbia, he's pretty paranoid!

Aren't you gonna use the report to moderator feature on your own post?

You don't find it offensive? How come?

And then you might wonder why we have a hard time taking you seriously when you complain......




/jarmo

Chavez is completely crazy.

I'm not wondering at all. I did it to prove there is a double standard, and I got the response I expected in the first place. And can you explain to me why anyone would find my post offensive when there are people on this board who express opinions similar to Chavez on a regular basis?

Comparing one paranoid leader to other paranoid people can be offensive. Nobody's the same.... :crying:


The only double standard there is that we will never start listening to a very small minority on how we moderate the board. If you don't like it, too fucking bad. And yes, I do think you're part of that little group.

Anybody who calls me "Gestapo" isn't gonna have high priority when they need my "help". Sorry, that's just the way I am.


Now, I'm done with you since there's nothing else I have to say to you.



/jarmo

Chavez is smoking too much of that Venezuelan Gold which he thankfully looks the other way when dealers ship it to the US.

Don't cry Jarmo! I didn't mean to offend you. In a way you're right. It's an insult to Chavez to compare him to people who say 'Bush and Blair are worse than Hitler and Mussolini,' since even he probably won't go that far. Then again, without naming any names, the comparison is a pretty good match for others.

Anyway, I have yet to see anyone actually speak up and say they are offended by me comparing them to Chavez...



I don't need your help. You can allow people to put up all the KKK symbols they want on your board. It doesn't make me look bad. If you don't find them offensive, that's your problem.


good

Who said that on this board ? The only place I've read that was in a thread you posted and if my memory serves me right you're currently citing Mugabe ... after being associated w/ Chavez (who for the time being is an elected leader) now we're being w/ Mugabe, Thank you very much !  :-X


Chavez isn't a very clear leader - I wouldn't be so pleased ! But saying the USA don't have anything to do w/ the last coup is, for me, a little hard to believe.  :P

The 'Bush and Blair are worse than Hitler and Mussolini' comment was in the following thread:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=23114.msg404791#msg404791
Other than that, I have no idea what you're trying to say here ??? If you want me to respond to something else you wrote, please rephrase it.


And when did I compare you with Chavez? ::)

You still want to go on playing little game ? Can I play too ?

Where did I say that you said you were comparing me with Chavez ? Nowhere ... I said that I wouldn't be pleased to be compare to Chavez ... Never said you were comparing me with Chavez ! Get it ?


And it wasn't the main point in my post ! But nervermind I'm pretty tired to argue with people that have no argument and who think they are clever enough to play semantics !  :P

I've already answered to that ! And clearly you missed the main point of my post ... so be it !  :P ::)

That's great that you wouldn't be pleased to be compared with him. Good for you : ok:

But who is the "we" in this statement:

Why do all political debate threads turn into posters attacking each other? Because if this kind of thing was face to face someone whould end up getting their ass kicked.

I'm sure the intelligence Chavez has is just as legitimate as the US intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons and was preparing to turn them against the world at any time.

Whoops!

Whooops! Looks like I was wrong when I said Chavez probably would not go as far as saying that Bush is worse than Hitler. Turns out he is actually on record saying the US is ?the most savage, cruel, and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world.?

There you have it folks. The Soviet Union, North Korea, the Third Reich, Mao's China ... NOTHING compared to the United States of America!

Here's the rest of this article with some interesting information about the developing relationship between Chavez and Iran:

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200510160626
Che, Iran and the Bomb
By Toby Westerman | The Conservative Voice

October 15, 2005 08:03 PM EST | Ernesto ?Che? Guevara is still remembered as a dashing revolutionary thirty eight years after his death on October 8, 1967 in the Yaro ravine in Bolivia.

Today, the dreams ? or nightmares ? of ?Che? live on in the actions of Venezuela?s Marxist president, Hugo Chavez, assisted by his Islamic fundamentalist and Asian Communist friends.

Venezuela was once friendly to the United States and a major U.S. supplier of oil. The name of the nation is now the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, in reference to 19th century liberator Simon Bolivar who advocated a united South America. Continent-wide unification of Latin America is a major project of Chavez. The politics and society of Venezuela under Chavez are increasingly Marxist, but the Bolivarian Republic, at least for now, remains a major oil supplier to the United States.

Chavez is an admirer of ?Che,? and occasionally addresses crowds wearing a T-shirt bearing the cult revolutionary?s image. Chavez also has decided to go nuclear, and develop atomic reactors for ?peaceful? purposes. He has the friends to help him do it. If Chavez is successful in his nuclear bid, atomic bomb capabilities will belong to a man who considers capitalism as ?savagery,? and describes the United States as ?the most savage, cruel, and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world.?

Venezuela is a member of the UN?s International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and is also the only member of the organization to support Iran?s contention that the world has no business investigating its nuclear conduct.

The mullahs who control Iran are grateful to Chavez and his regime for their support. Although the IAEA voted to bring Iran?s nuclear program to the attention of the Security Council, the Iranian government specifically thanked Venezuela for its support.

In turn, the Venezuelan ambassador to Iran, Arturo Gallegos, declared that the ?brother nation? of Iran would continue to receive ?unconditional support and the solidarity of the people Venezuela.?

Both Iran and Venezuela claim that their interest in nuclear power is only for ?peaceful? uses, but much of the world is skeptical. The United States has reason for deep concern, since both Iran and Marxist Venezuela consider the U.S. an archenemy, and there is substantial evidence that both nations support guerrillas operating against the U.S. and its allies. Venezuela is suspected of aiding Marxist guerrillas in Latin America, especially in neighboring Colombia, and Iran is reportedly aiding insurgents attacking U.S. and British forces in Iraq.

Chavez has eagerly pursued close ties with Iran. Following the July election of to the Iranian presidency of hard liner Mahmud Ahmadinejad, Chavez tossed diplomatic restraint aside and called Ahmadinejad directly to express his congratulations, and indicate his desire to visit Tehran for a ?comprehensive expansion? of cooperation between the Bolivarian Republic and the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Two months later, Iran and Venezuela signed a series of multi-million dollar business, financial, and technology agreements. Iran has also assisted Venezuela to develop the means to sell oil to China. In view of Venezuela?s ?solidarity? with Tehran, Iranian nuclear expertise will, no doubt, soon find its way to Chavez? Venezuela.

Iran may soon expand its ties with Latin America beyond Venezuela. The Brazilian ambassador to the Latin and Caribbean Group of Nations (GRULAC), Luis Antonio Fachini, is reported to have invited Iran to send representatives to speak to the organization, which is open to considering Teheran?s views on matters of mutual interest.

While Chavez is courting Iran, he is also cementing relations with another nation more ideologically consistent with Venezuela?s present Socialist course. Hector Navarro, one of the Chavez inner-circle, has referred to North Korea as a ?model? for the Bolivarian Republic to follow, and is prepared to exchange ambassadors with the Stalinist Asian nation.

During his recent visit to the Bolivarian Republic, the president of North Korea?s parliament, Yang Hyong Sop, declared his nation?s support for Chavez and his regime. ?It is very necessary to further strengthen the relations?between our two people?and ?face the conspiracies of our enemies,? Yang stated during a visit to Venezuela in late September.

North Korea has nuclear weapons, and friendship with the enigmatic Communist regime provides another source of technical support for his atomic ambitions. Since its founding in 1945 immediately after WWII, North Korea has been a determined foe of the United States, including the Korean War war from 1950 to 1953. A peace agreement has never formally ended the conflict.

Chavez? alliance with Iran and North Korea is potentially a very serious matter for the United States. It is time for America to understand these dangers, and rally democratic forces in the region.

Nothing new in there ... really ...

And don't be so surprised, it's an idea many south americans share ! The United States overruled democracies down there to put puppets dictatorships to remplace them. I'm speaking for Brazil but it goes for Chile (this one you can't deny) and Argentina ... So yes the United States are seen as an imperialist country and it difficult to deny it too.

I'm not here to defend Chavez, I'm not a Chavez fan but the guy was elected ... he isn't a dictator yet - so it's to early to make him look like the bad guy now that saddam's gone !  :P

No one is making Chavez look bad, but himself.

How is this that you never get my point ?  ??? :P

Yes and the USA has overthrown democracies and installed dictators in the middle east too.

People always seem to forget that when claiming we are "spreading democracy", and "fighting terror".

Probably because you don't have a point.

So childish you are.....

And it's back to personal attacks again. Imagine that .....

Where have we overthrown a democracy and started a dictatorship in the Mid East?

If I have stumped you , a personal attack on me is not really necessary thank you.

I guess Suddam was technically elected. :hihi:

If what I usually say doesn't make sense I wonder how did I pass a Master Degree on American Civilization ... It may be that french universities suck so much !
Maybe you want me to enlight things for you - to make them easier for you to understand ?

My point was -> Saddam is no longer around - Ossama nowhere to be found - then bam Chavez becomes the new bad boy thanks to Pat Robertson ! The man has been elected ! he guy's not a dictator yet ! And what he's saying is really no big deal - a majority of south americans feel the same.

I guess you'll keep on saying I don't have a point and what I'm saying is fuckin stupid - so be it ! it happens most of your posts have the same effect on me !  :-X

I didn't say your posts were "fuckin stupid," but if that's the effect my posts have on you, why do you keep responding ???

And no you don't have a point because almost nobody cares about about Pat Robertson, and Chavez has been making a mockery of himself long before Pat Robertson ever said anything about him.

Do you have a source to back up your claim that "a majority of south americans" feel the same way Chavez does? Somehow I doubt many south americans would agree the US is ?the most savage, cruel, and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world.?

Many politicians accross the world have been making a mockering of themselves for years ... It happens lately the conservative part of the American media are focusing  on Chavez ... He's been saying the same bullshit for years so why now ?   ::)

And for my sources - I was born in Brazil - twenty years of dictarship thanks to the American help and a debt Brazil has to pay back. So American imperialism in South America is something that is felt everyday.
I'm not saying south americans hate the USA it's quite the other way around but when it comes down to culture not imperialism. I wasn't talking about Chavez non-sense citation but about the idea of imperialism he conveys. He builds all his rhetoric around that he emphasizes it !

The conservative part of the American media is focusing on Chavez lately? That's news to me.

Frankly, I don't care where you were born. Obviously, you have no evidence to back up your claim.

Obviously, first hand observations ain't anough for you ! I really don't know why I get on having this conversation ! -  ::)
For the record next time you share one of your personnal experiences ... ie "I'm not American yet I'm from Eastern Europe" I'll think about answering "I don't care where you were born"  ::) :P

If I use my personal experience as evidence for what the "majority" of Easter Europe thinks, certainly do.

Rain is probably one of the smartest people on this board and is running laps around you.

 You just aren't smart enough to know it.

Funny how we're back to personal attacks again. You aren't smart enough is the best you can come up with?

Oh well, I guess I'm giving it a rest ! Too much energy waste for nothing ! Tchao, so long !  :P

Actually I thought this was the most witty comment in the exchange:


It is true, that is exactly what she was doing.? Re-read the exchange.? I am sure use of this kind of evidence is on your logical fallacy list somewhere.

He is on a list alright.....

I'm only answering to your post here because I have the feeling you are a clever poster in here (and I always have).
Ok you too are dismissing first hand observations and eventually I can even agree with that ! I know what was coming while I was writing it.
What buggers me is that - my point was that Chavez blahblah is actually not new and is widespread in South America because american Imperialism cannot be denied. And you don't focus on "imperialism in South America" but on "Chavez blablah's is widespread in South America" and I'm urged to proove that point but not using first hand observations - just internet links ... which I hope you will eventually concur is pretty difficult.
I thought, and I was wrong, that it was pretty obvious that people who suffered years of dictatorship - as in Chile, Brazil etc - wouldn't be kind while dealing with American policies.

chavez doesn't make himself look bad, but seems like this thread's poster tries to do just that.

It's called " disinformation" or "a mission to make someone lose all credibility"

And chavez does have oil, therefore, like every country that does, he is right to worry.

What "disinformation" did I post? I'm basically posting articles with Chavez's own quotes. It's his own words that make him look bad, not what I say? ::)

Can you say ad hominem?