Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Stuff like this makes me sick but at least people think the music was/is good.

How did you get involved in Guns N? Roses?

Nothing else had worked, so Geffen figured they?d send me in to talk to Axl after I moved to Los Angeles. We desperately wanted the new album for Christmas 1998 and I had a year to get it finished. Whenever anyone asks me about GNR, I think about Rutger Hauer?s line in Blade Runner: ?I?ve seen things you people wouldn?t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.?

No expense was spared; they were the biggest band in the history of the label and, even though everyone except Axl was gone, Geffen Records lived and breathed for another GNR album.

The Robin Finck/Josh Freese/Tommy Stinson/Billy Howerdel/Dizzy Reed version of the album that existed in 1998 was pretty incredible. It still sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in. If Axl had recorded vocals, it would have been an absolutely contemporary record in 1999.

People close to the project have since told me that I don?t know what I?m talking about, that the current version of the record in no way resembles what I heard in early 1999. That?s too bad.

Do you think that Chinese Democracy is ever going to come out?

I have no idea. Seven years ago, the record just needed a lead vocal and a mix. The last time I was at the studio was two days before my daughter was born. Last night she read all of ?Hop on Pop? to me. Some mysteries passeth all understanding.

 

I read this somewhere else, as well.  That's really sad.  Seven years ago, all CD needed was a lead vocal and a mix?  That's a hell of a lot of time, money, and effort wasted.  How many promises of a release date have come and gone? Pretty pathetic, really.  How much "perfection" does Axl need?  I think he's afraid to release anything because he has a fear of failure.

I just hope he still has all that stuff in the vaults and that he didn't erase it.  ???

Does anyone know who Billy Howerdel is?

Maybe Slash's statement that only two songs had vocals referred to this period of time.

why does it always come down to vocals.   I have read countless times 'The music is done, the vocals need some finishing touches' or something like that, whether it's the 98-99 album or the post-2002 work.

if axl only layed down the vocals.. Where the fuck was he when these albums were being put together.. he is the hold up of everything gnr.. Real shame the man can never get his shit together.. The money and time he has wasted, not only his but all the people involved who came and went..

He is in a perfect circle. He is a guitarist/tech person.

Because if the songs were to leak out, the wouldn?t have vocals and would be worthless. Also, the vocals could be on another track the guy did not know about.  I am sure he had them written down just not done yet. Don't forgot not to long after 1999 Brian May heard 2 or 3 albums of songs with vocals added. So Axl could have had the masters of the songs with vocals. It really is too bad because we could have had a new gnr album in 1999, 2002 and 2005 if Axl released all that material.  I hope someday we get a box set to hear all these songs that were scrapped.

That would be a cream dream. And also the ultimate "fuck you" to people who said Axl wasn't spending his time productively in his home

If ever proof was needed that it was Axl causing the delay....

Why can't he just record some vocals - again and again we're told the music's done but the vocals aren't done. I wonder why

He is a perctionist. Hell it took Brian Wilson like 30 years to finish Smile.

why do people keep using him as an example and always making excuses for axl rose..  Brian wilson was a fucking wacko and doing the material is not what took him that long.. That is also not a beach boy's album but this is a gnr album where tons of money has been wasted and people he hired as band mates have to sit on their asses waiting for him.. There's a  difference between a long awaited gnr album and an axl rose album .. Much more interest is in a gnr album that represents a huge succesfull rock group the other is just a lead singer of the band.. even though both bands are fronted by the same man people have more interest in a gnr project then an axl rose project..

So enough with axl in comparison to brain wilson...  The man is being a fuck up not coming through while he has his fan boys constantly making excsues to why he is never wrong or always delaying everyone in the world.. Maybe the hero of the day is just to chicken shit to release an album.. So keep using brian wilson or blaming ex members or whatever else it takes for you to get through the day instead of just saying axl rose is the one to blame regardless if he is a perfectionist.. He's so perfect he can't make his gigs on time..

be fans of his music or gnr but enough with the defending his every time taking move..

You really need to chill out. The true Axl fans accept Axl for Axl and don't bitch about his faults. Get over it already. I don't use anything to get me through the day. I live my life, listen to other music, and when CD comes out it comes out, I unlike you don't spend every day bitching and complaining its taking too long like you and a few others do.

As for defending his every move, the same can be said for the people like yourself who bitch at his every move, or about the album taking too long or about him not speaking to us about the album.

The biggest difference between fans like me and fans like you is, I have come to accept axl and how he is, after all these? years you would think you could do the same. He is never going to chance so why do you even complain about it?

Axl wants to make the best album possible. So when he feels its right, he will release it, how hard is that to understand?

Like everyone else doesn't do the same.. it's just this blind loyalty were the men on these forums are more then just fans they are like worshipers on the alter of axl.. I come here out of habbit and some new rumor to catch a laugh.. I just can't stand the constant excuses everyone gives to why he doesn't deliver..

see we are the normal people... The fans that actually get on their favs if they spend 14 years with no new material..  You people say you are NEW gnr fans or axl rose fans yet you act like you don't care if he ever puts anything out.. yet  you'll start threads about what new music will they play on their tour or those  lyric threads.. By the way axl doesn't move that's why we bitch.. Why be a fan of a man that never releases anything?? I ,mean shit would you rather sit there and say how many times you wet yourself listening to irs and how it's the best instant classic ever???

maybe you all rather talk about the same songs the rest of your life and dream that the massive recluse is going to rise from the pits of his basement to release the biggest gem ever recapture the world, sell 12 million albums and do a 3 year tour and drop albums every few years..  Well it's time to be realistic and stop sugar coating everything.. if it smelss like shit it most likely is shit..  A man that cowers in his house forever is not just going to magically appear one day and show up for shows and be all sociable..
At best I see the album coming out one day and maybe some kind of tour if axl can hack the three weeks then going back in his shell.. The man will not suddenly show up to all his gigs, or not throw some hissy fit if a camera enters the building... Sucha  bbad track record and people seldom change

Dave, "people like you" have been saying the same thing since 1997. Those excuses dont work anymore. Find a new one(if its possible). This is a very interesting article. Dont you guys see the similarities to what he said in 98-99 and whats going on now? Its articles like this that make me wonder if Chinese Democracy is the hoax of a madman. How many Led Zeppelin instrumental albums can you have without ever doing vocals? :hihi:

that's the thing you can be the biggest AR fan in the world just act suprised if someone says there was no vocals set down for an album that was supposed to come out. Say fuck that sucks for the guys who were in the bands.. maybe we would have had other artists in the band or at least samples of their work instead of songs possibly getting trashed..

I always read how it's the ex member's fault or this or that.. Can't anyone just say it's axl rose's fault.. This isn't the first time you have heard no vocals, or axl's sightings were few and far between,, Not only now but in the past as well with the old band..

Defending him isn't going to get you an invite on stage or a memtnion in the credits..

Find a new what? Excuse? Acceptance is not an excuse or didn?t you know that? You still cannot deal with it, and I feel sorry for you. ?My life does not depend on this album coming out like it seems to you and others that always complain its still not out. ?

You also should have read my post earlier about the vocals. Like I said around 2000 Axl had vocals on the songs since Brian May heard 3 albums worth with vocals? Axl also said this album he wanted the songs done first then he would add vocals. ?Also like I said its smart of Axl not to add the vocals to the songs til the last minute just incase they leak. You do know its possible to have vocals down for a song but not layered on the song yet right?

I am just curious the don't damn me demo, the estranged demo, the other UYI demos that don't have the vocals on them from those bootleg cds, do you really think Axl was not working on the vocals at that time or had them done but just on other track?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... dude come on, be real.  You are on here constantly, and like some one else mentioned discussing what kinds of songs will be played on the tour.  You defend everything Axl does (like with the Brian Wilson argument).  I sometimes wonder if you would go to the extra lengths you have here to defend your own family. 

you really don't see how you find any loop hole or possible way to defend his actions and why whatever he did was right.. ever see those women that are in abusive relationships that always stick up for their man.. That's what this is like.. Never can say he is wrong or that it's his fault, just try n find some way to explain how it's smart or the right way..


that's it in a nut shell.. Dave just needs to convince himself of these things..

Lets see I am a fan of Axl and guns n roses and I come here to talk about the band. I don?t come here to hear people complain about how they hate him or think the album is taking too long. If you really think that why are you even here?  Like I have said before Trent and Maynard take forever between albums also but you don't hear their fans bitching about it. Oh and don?t tell me that Trent does remix albums because if Axl ever released a remixed AFD with the new band you would be asking for his head.

The fact is with some of you no matter what Axl does it?s the wrong thing. If he doesn?t talk about the album or the old members i.e. the lawsuit you bitch he never speaks. If he gives a statement the album is almost ready but he is still tweaking you complain, he didn?t give any new info. If he talks bad about the old members like they do to him you bitch about that too. So the fact is whatever Axl does its always wrong for some of you. I just find it funny some of you throw a fit over this. Its like if you are tired of waiting, whats keeping you here? Why are you still waiting?

If I started bashing slash or duff or weiland on the VR side of the board like some of you on this board with Axl, you would be all crying for me to stop posting there because all I do is bash them.

I think vs. music sucks and is very medorice but you don?t constantly see me over their saying that and always crying why cant they make a good album now do you?

dave no one ever said they hated axl rose.. It's almost like anyone who sees the reality of the situtation is some kind of hater.. It's just a matter of saying hey we are fans stop jerking us around and deliver something already.. We have been teased and been loyal to say the least and a few words is what most of us had asked for to let us know what was up.. There comes a time to either shit or get off the pot.. No other group would keep their fans in the dark like this and treat their band mates the same too..

Did he mentioned cd in 1999 along with omg, did he say see you next summer with new songs, did he say round 1, did he say time to wrap this baby up?? he has given alot of info and details but never delivers so expect fans to be pissed.. Wha the fuck else do we come here for.. SOme of us have lived gnr already so the new stuff is what we would like..

Dude what the hell are you talking about.  I know of 3 of my good friends who complained about how long it took NIN to release a new album.  Just because YOU dont visit NIN message boards and read what people have to say or you dont talk to your friends about NIN does not mean the frustration isnt out there. 

Hahahahaha Axl would not release a remix buddy!  He plays rock and roll, and you know what, if he released a remix industrial album DAMN RIGHT I would be calling for his head.  Haha, imagine SCOM being backed by the beat for Terrible Lie. 

If you truly 'accept' how Axl is, then why do you still need to defend him?  If you do not care, then you should let us peons bicker amongst ourselves.  But you cant do that.  Dave, Axl is not going to say a future show "I want to thank all the fans that stuck with us through the past years.... especially Dave at Here Today Gone To Hell.  You were my inspiration for completing this album.  Thanks man, I want to meet you and become your best friend."  Let it go.  Let all of us who aren't up to your intellectual level to complain and argue. 

If Axl released a whole album of songs like oh my god, you would curse axl til the day he died. ?Some people would not mind but axl realized it might not be a good idea so he started over again. Nothing wrong with that.

As for the 2002 thing, I think if BH never left the album would have been released. They were all set to play rio, and I am sure they would have played new songs at that show.

You just ?need to accept Axl for who he is since if you have been a fan as long as most of us, then you know how he is and just deal with it. Its that simple.

Dave, do you really believe the Brian May comments? If you think May heard 3 albums with vocals, then you are as crazy as he is. Its an obvious lie. Several different people have stated that there wasn't vocals at that time. Brian May was just asked about Axl and GNR, so of course he's gonna say something nice about Axl and hype an album that needed less hype instead of more. Dave, I think you have to force yourself to believe some of the comments you make. We've had this same debate before, and its an unwinnable debate on your part. Too many people have contradicted these finished vocals on 3 albums statements you like to bring up. You just want to believe its true. Hell, I also felt the same. I figured the album(or albums) were finished in 1998-2000. I was wrong. Dave, as time goes on, I think you will finally see the light. It hurts. It'll take your eyes awhile to adjust to it. :hihi: What's it gonna take for you to believe the truth?

I do accept axl.. I would not have waited for anyone else in the music business like I have for him.. But lets say waiting is one thing and rediculous is another.. We're on the later part now


Maybe maybe not.. everyone feels different about this situation when it happened.. I knew they had about 2 months to go before this happened and one show they could have played it.. They never got new band members to fill his spot so that was the group you were going to get then or now.. You can also say the delays of cd is the cause of BH leaving, so....


You have to understand that if he released music at a decent pace even if I personaly didn't like that one there would be others to follow.. He's not sitting around caring if I liked that album.. if he had/s 3 albums worth of material it would be diverse so therwe would be likes n dislikes.. Just don't say well be glad it didn't come out because I wouldn't like it

I used to always go to NIN sites, message boards and chat rooms but after the fragile I gave up on Trent since it sucked. I even bought their last album hoping it would be good but it was not. ?As for Axl saying anything to me, I love hope people like you try and claim this. ?It?s a really poor attempt at wit and a failed one also. ?

As for me defending him, I am just pointing things out to the misinformed which a lot of the bashers here seem to be misinformed a lot of the time. It also gets old when the same usual suspects bring up the same things week after week. Its like you really should get some new material for a change.

Also I find it funny that when ever I posted about how MEH contraband really was, you guys bitched at me yet defending slash and duff is ok but low and behold if someone defends Axl they expect a post card from him.

Typical thinking of people like you.

The funny thing I find most about what Jim said was, it was pretty postitive what he had to say about the music part of the songs they were working on in 1999 but people like you turn that around and find a reason to bash axl because the vocals were not layered on the songs yet. Way to go to turn a postive thing into a lets bash Axl thread.
 : ok:

Enough of the whining about Axl not releasing anything. Don't you ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over and over again?



/jarmo

if that's how you feel then that's great dude.. if you hated contraband then that is your opinion.. I bet if axl did ygnr or slither you might love it j/k dude..

I am a gnr fan so I follow gnr this is what I want.. I maybe dislike 6 songs from the entire gnr catalog so I'm not some hater, I am just an annoyed devoted fan who is not some teen in that clouad anymore.. I use to sit there and defend axl tooth n nail, pics all over my walls.. When you are a fanatic you don't see clear nad you deffend past the point of sanity.. Start convincing yourself of things even joing forums looking for people like yourself.. A lot of people are still in the clouds and some of us are just realistic..

We all want the same thing CD but some of see clearer then others..

yeah I mean imagine a gnr forum with new music..

lets all be phonies and like it's wonderful

how about the people quoting the same bullshit and using the same excuses over n over, does that ever get boring.. 3 albums of material in 2000 but no albums yet in 2005 :D

If people would not keep bring up there is still no album which we all know then there would not be any no so called excuses right?

I understand but you have to at least understadn that some of us are here only for the album.. I am not here to play gnr trivia or search for bootlegs or trade things.. I am not here to talk about songs I have really talked about a lot already adn voiced my opinions on.. I just want the album as does everyone but my attention is geared mostly on that one specific..

I am about going to shows, hearing singles and checking out new videos.. That's me.. I get pissed when I hear the members giving very shady interviews and shit like that.. I rather be treated like a fan from the people we follow.. : ok:

Also I rather see axl before he's fucking ancient and before some band mate decides he's had enough..

Until the album comes out, there will be realistic comments on one side and excuses on the other. Which should be soon since there's 3 albums with vocals ready to go! :hihi:

As my first post, I must agree 100% with everything gnfnr2k has to say. None of us should complain about Axl. We should just accept him for who he is. If Axl decides to leave his band and his fans in the cold by not showing up to a concert (like in Philly), and not give the fans any response or any reason why he failed to show than tough luck! The fans who ended up sitting for hours only to be told to go home should not bitch! They should just accept it and not ask questions. If Axl decides he wants to beat up his wife and girlfriend then tough for them. They should just accept Axl for being Axl and stop bitching about getting hit. Hell, if they didn't bitch so much Axl probably wouldn't hit them in the first place. Stupid bitches. I LOVE YOU AXL!

Stuff like this makes me :drool:

And now it must be even more incredible with BH  Brain and Chris pitman.....

Well then, please come back when the album is out and you have something new to speak about instead of "it's not out yet  :crying: ".





/jarmo

Why don't the people who are here 'just' for the album 'just' check the website, as soon as details on it coming out are released the news will be on the frontpage of the site for you all to read....discussing it is just...well pointless...especially since there the same whiny discussions ones which have been around for years.

We all want the same thing: CD
But some of can see things in ways which some don't
It's called faith dude. ?;)
Fans like Dave, whose posts in this thread were fuckin amazin' btw : ok: and myself have faith in Axl and the new version of GN'R. ?Just like he said, we ACCEPT things as they are... or aren't ?- ?what sense is it to get frustrated over a situation which not only can you do nothing about, but which you know nothing about? ?In the absence of such knowledge your choices are faith or doubt. ?Belief or cynacism. ?Hope or despair. Positivity or negativity. Cheers or jeers.
The choice is clear. Anyone who can't see that isn't seeing clearly. ? ;)

Cool to hear that the matieral was so strong. ?All the great things we hear about the work that's been going into the making of this album, is promising for the eventual product. ? : ok:

complain about the album being out if thats what floats your boat.  just don't get pissy when others say what they have to say about it. 

and WTF does any of that BS you posted about have to do with the album  ::)

One can be a cynic but still have the F word...

It has to do with what gnfnr2k said about accepting Axl for being Axl and not questioning his actions or motives. Axl is our Fuehrer and we are the Gestapo. We should not question anything Axl does, just aceept them and take what is given to us. No complaining. If you complain...you get discipline! Do you like discipline!?

All this complaining about new music not being out is going to become pretty pointless relatively soon.  Of course, that's just my opinion, so please view it as such ;)

Rock on and all that,

-darknemus

how so? ?

faith = belief /cynic = non-believer
cynacism = ?hopelessness / faith = hope

the way i see it, either you have it or you don't.


Axl isn't anyone's god damn Fuehrer. ? lol!
What fucking discipline are you going on about?
What is your major malfunction? ?:rofl:

Why the fuck do I have to question Axl?
I have my own life to live.
No one ASKS much less FORCES you to give a shit what Axl does or doesn't do or why - as if you even knew what the fuck he is doing or isn't doing or why!  If you give a shit and it sticks in your craw that you don't know, that is your problem....
You can bitch all you want about it but what's your point?
That we should all be bitching little whining punks?
And if we're not then that means we're the losers?
Now thats fucking twisted man. ?
Axl is who he is and does what he does - yep Dave said that.
And what's your problem with that?
We should not accept him as he is? ?lol! ?So now you think you own the guy! ?And we're the psychos? ?::)

Why do people get pissed when someone eevry so often vents about the album?? Not everyone is as patient and understanding as others.. For some that have been around since day one in the gnr world are just trying to look forward without making up hypothetical setlists and what might be played on tours.. As a gnr community we complain some and it's only normal, we only want to move on and experience all the stuff everyone is calling mind blowing and amazing earth shattering etc.. We want to see the new guys have their day in the sun as well..

I may bitch but it's not because of the material or because I have anything against axl rose.. I have followed the man since 87 along with each changing of the guard in gnr.. I only bitch because I feel let down and some days for me personally it's harder to deal with and see the same people so overly positive.. Nothing wrong with being optomistic.. But not everyone is as sure as the rest.. Some of us enjoyed the new material, but not to the point where we are still playing those tunes on a regular basis so please understand I am looking for the newer stuff.
I just want to get out there (like we all do) and enjoy the fruits of the labor and get my tickets to shows and actually turn on thre radio and hear a new single..

I mean fuck I heard 92.3 K-rock the other day and a ny dj julie slater talked a few secs about new material before playing mr brownstone.. She was like I hear a few members are stil in gnr that have been working on material for years but it never sees the light of day.. Nowe she is a big rock dj in nyc and that little speech wasn't soemthing reassuring when you are expecting something so grand and sooner then later..


maybe I rub people the wrong way but you must see it from both sides.. I try to expres my feelings and not hold back.. I like people who say what;'s on their minds and are honest.. I am not a sugar coater.. I am not the one who resurected guns and gave subtle hints and numerous shows with hints and actuall statements that showed shit should have happened.. So everyone is different.. The realistic people aka the whiners may be annoying to some, but so are the people who act like hey it's going to happen and have no doubts in the world and almost act like they don't expect anything or care yet they devote their lives to 5-6 tunes that are like 5-6 years old..

As fans we deserve resepct.. I bought many new things from new gnr, supported them on their tour in 02, and defended axl many times on the vh1 boards after the vmas.. man has limits and those with a spine will feel lied to after a while and  get a bit pissed.. We deserve an update to say the least.

it's a gnr message aboard you can't agree with eevryone

I don't understand where all this is coming from. I am agreeing with you and gnfnr2k. We should accept Axl for who he is. If Axl is the kind of person who doesn't feel the need to explain himself for missing out on a show and leaving his band in the cold than we should accept it and get on with our lives. I really do not connect with these "fans" who are promised an album in 2005 yet complain when it doesn't come out. I mean which country do they think they live in? America? There is a reason why this album is called Chinese Democracy. Because a Chinese democracy would not be a real democracy. It would just appear as so on the surface but underneath it all, those who question or complain about the authority will be DISIPLINED by their peers. OR we can get along with these so-called "fans." Oh yes, I will get along with them. Then, I will hug some snakes...yes! Then, I will hug and kiss some poisonous SNAKES!  :)

as for agreeing with me and dave you're posts are getting more twisted by the minute

if you're looking for snakes you are in the wrong section of the board.  :hihi:

what's all this talk about discipline?  lol!
you into S&M or something?  lol!

mikegiuliana.....   I doesn't bother me if anyone wants to vent their frustration about the album coming out.  what irks me is when some fans accuse fans like dave or I of being up Axl's ass just because we're not frustrated.

Oh my God.? You're sick, you know that?? I just can't even believe you posted that or that I'm reading it, specifically, "..if they didn't bitch so much Axl probably wouldn't hit them in the first place.? Stupid bitches."? ? You scare me!

Anyway, I can accept Axl for who he is.? He's Axl.? I have no respect for him anymore.? Compassion, maybe, because he obviously has issues, but no respect.? If you want to pay money for shows that he either doesn't show up for or gets pissed and leaves, then all the more power to you.? (Actually, to see him get pissed & leave might be worth the money, because that's classic Axl!)?

Does anyone, other than a couple of us, see the ludicracy in all of this?? There were promises in 1999, 2002, 2005, and other times in between.? If, in fact, in 2000, Axl had the vocals laid down, then why did he not release it?? Someone said that "he wants to make the best album possible and when he feels it's right he will release it."? Come on...you could wait forever, if that's the case.? Like I said before, it's been 12 yrs.? It doesn't take 12 yrs to make a "perfect" album.? I still think he's just afraid to release it - fear of failure or something.? Admittedly, I haven't been one that's been waiting for this, but I was a huge fan of GnR (back in the day, of course).? But, for those who are, don't you feel, by this time, that you are being just strung along in the name of Axl's supposed "perfection"?

If he doesn't release CD, he will, if nothing else, go down in rock n' roll history as the "madman of rock n' roll".? ?I'm already beginning to think he is.?

Anyway, why do I post here, if I feel this way?? Because I loved GnR.? Axl's made this into a joke.? For those of us who feel this way, our opinion means something, as well.? (Plus, I love to see people get all freaked out about this.? Can't help it.)? ? ? ? ?

If you thought gnfn2k was a blind fanboy then you haven't seen nothing yet. ::puts on my Jack Nicholson Joker voice:: Wait'll you guys get a load of me. This board needs an enema!  :rofl:

Go right ahead.? Give it an enema.? You'd probably like that.?  :hihi:

Its slash is gnr under a different name I bet eva. What do you think? 4 of his first 5 posts are aimed at me.
What do you think?

axl rose gets paid to sit around, write poems and hire talented musicians to play them.   
the hardest part of his day is probably dealing with his label-  or avoiding dealing to his label.
in the mean time suntans- and pays someone $700 to braid his hair.
he put "oh my god" on a soundtrack to shut the suits up-  same with the tour and the vma's.  he got paid to go out on tour with these people and when he got bored with it he dropped it.     he'll do it all again sometime... maybe... if he feels like it-


or maybe we just have to wait till' the fellow dies?

Really surprising... Axl didn't completed the vocals by 1998? Slash didn't hear Axl singin' in the last years of GN'R since Axl was only sitting and saying 'I want this riff, I don't want this riff' - if he even appeared. Finck left because he was tired of working on instrumentals... The vocals weren't done by 2002,2003,2004 and you know, Richard said in 2005 that Axl was finishing the vocals. Again. So for those who believe that after Axl's death we'll hear CD: it won't be more than an instrumental album.  :-\

Officer Frank Serpico, as a music fan, don't you feel psyched out with the way he described the shits?
"sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in"
Come on, All your favs, aren't they?


Oh my darling why did you change? :confused:
What are you two doing here then? Stalking? Haunting the board?
Both of you sound pretty sick.


added to that, my bet is SIG is a kind of equivalent for 'club cookie', if you remember.

Oh really?  Where did you hear that? 


My problem with the 'positive' posters is that they are so 100% extreme on all positions.  What good has ever come out of being extremists in anything?  There is a happy medium to everything.  People are so sure about everything and when I ask for some kind of material to support what they say 99% of the time there is nothing to back up their claims.  It is all based on 'faith' in Axl.  It is all the gut feeling on the part of the people posting.  All I want is something to back up what they are saying. 

the same is true of the negative posters. Or rather, it's more true.

IMO would be the magic word. 8)

I don't agree but that's just my opinion.. I see someone like james lofton who loves the new band and says some cool shit about a few of the new tunes but disagrees with the time it takes and the actions or lack of them by axl.. He can be a perfectionist or take forever but there's nothing wrong with keeping the fans somewhat informed and allowing the band members to at least speak for him..

Yeah, remember I read an interview with him back in 2000, I think.
Axl asked him to help with 'computer programming' thing (sorry if it's unintelligible, I don't know the right english word for it).
He left because the whole thing didn't want to end.
Then he and Josh Freese became the members of perfect circle.

James, did I actually just read your post correctly? Brian May just lied about what he heard? Lied on purpose? Why exactly would he lie? Comments like that are unbelievably ridiculous. He heard what he heard...multiple albums of material with vocals. Finished, mixed vocals...maybe not, but I am sure there were vocals on the songs. May listened to the stuff in spring of 2000. Barber is talking about 1998-1999. David Wild from Rolling Stone heard 12 songs in Dec 1999. 11 had vocals, only Oklahoma was mentioned as an instrumental. The simple fact of the matter is Axl is a crazy fucker and most likely he has an absolute mountain of material. We may hear it one day, we may not. The only consistent thing we know about the material is that everyone who has been involved in the project speaks very highly of the music. Led Zep, NIN, and Pink Floyd is a pretty strong compliment. Wild said the 12 songs he heard sounded like Physical Graffiti remixed by Trent Reznor. Again, STRONG compliment. If Axl has a better record now than then, I will wait for it-not happily, but I'll wait .? :hihi:

maybe axl told me,  ever think of that?

Maybe as in.............no?

well  first....  axl`s cool

i think it`s pretty obvious that there are vocals recorded allready. we listened to oh my god, some studio cuts in a tour promo and the IRS demo. and i really don`t think that brian may is lieing. by the way brian may wasn`t the only person implying that there are songs with vocals existing.

the songs on the trunk cd for example had vocals...

we are all here to communicate with others about our views. ?my views shouldn't be a problem for you anymore than yours are a problem to me.

what is so extreme about saying i'm not worried about whether there were vocals recorded in this year or that year? ?why am I not worried? ?Because it's a safe bet that the album is not going to be released without vocals! ?you want me to back that up? ?Well, obviously until the album is released I can't prove that there's vocals for the album! ? Since the album is not released and no one here - not you or me - knows what's going on all that's left to consider is our opinions - out views - what we think - what we believe. ?Whatever it is you believe - it's not based on any knowledge. ?So what is that? ?How is it more valid than my 'faith'?
It's not. ?It's all open to interpretation... ? ?What's the problem with that? ?

I'm not judging anyone who has doubts about the album or what's going on with it and is worried about it. ?Considering how little we know it's understandable.

As I said - MY PROBLEM is with people who insult and make negative personal characterizations about me or dave or other fans simply because we express a positive attitude... ?that we believe something which can't be held in evidence at present.

Don't characterize me as an extremeist...? ?There is nothing abnormal about supporting an artist's endeavors.? My support of Axl and the new band isn't based on an extreme or abnormal premise.? People support artists' forthcoming work all the time... based on what the artist has produced to date, based on what the artist shares about his ambitions - people form opinions about what they believe to be the artists potential.? What is exteme about that?? What is abnormal about that?? So long as Axl hasn't given up - WHICH HE HAS NOT - then I believe he WILL accomplish his goals....? ?

Should I take this guys comments to believe that Axl didn't record vocals for CD as of 98 or 99?  I could.  Should that make any difference?  It wouldn't change that Axl has not given up.  Do I believe that it's beyond the scope of possibility for Axl to give up?  No.  It's possible.  I don't believe he will give up. However, I'm not denying the possibility that he could give up.  If I did deny the possibility that Axl could give up then I would be an extremist. 

I'm not vocal about my support because I want something in return... ?I am vocal because I believe its encouraging to others. ?And that is something that is obviously needed for the GN'R fan internet based community.

Call me a cheerleader if it makes you feel better. ?I believe in Axl and the new band and I'm cheering them on. ?If its annoying to anyone that really is just too fucking bad for them. ?They can come back when the whistle blows. ?No one is forcing anyone to watch the pre-game show. ?

I don't agree and that's not just my opinion. The negative ppl tend to state hearsay n imagination for facts. What's more, some of them keep bringing up the same BS that already got refuted again and again, just like a broken record or 'Number 9' by the Beatles (isn't it off White album? :hihi:).

As for the certain poster, I think you're wrong again.
Say it after you go through his posting history for a word anywhere similar to 'IMO' or for any coherency among his arguments. Or quicky, Read magadas post and his in this thread.   
Nothing personal btw. I'm aware of a bit of improvement in his recent posts.

This seems to be the original source: http://www.poptones.co.uk/index.php?/questions_of_doom/more/james_barber_record_producer_a_and_r_legand_and_the_man/



/jarmo

ah dave... i believe you are right.

now it all makes sense.

besides explaining why all of BabyGorilla's post have been addressed towards you it would explain his "gestapo" comment and all the comments about "Discipline" and the comment about the board needing an enema... ?SlashIsGNR was banned... and if BabyGorilla is the same person, then it would appear he is back under a different user name to stalk you some more and to call Jarmo a "Gestapo"

My post are aimed towards you because I am such a huge fan of yours. Everything you say makes so much sense. I think you, me, and Lollyzone should all make a pilgrimage to Axl's Malibu estate. What do you think? 

If you got nothing to add, please don't even bother posting.  : ok:



/jarmo

Eva, It is FINE to have a positive outlook on things.  But most of the time, Dave especially, has an unrealistic view of things.  For example (see I am using evidence) when we were discussing if old songs were going to be played on the next (if it happens) tour.  I did my own random sample of GNR shows from 1992, 1993, and 2002 to see how many songs were played.  It was between 16-19 songs NOT COUNTING intros, solos, etc.  Dave simply stated 20-25 songs on average each night.  Where did this come from?  It was a blind guess.

And even in this post, the person who mentioned that Axl released OMG and toured to appease the 'suits'.  I ask where this information came from as I have never heard that before, and I get a defensive remark.  I just wish people would actually put more factual evidence and thought into a post rather than their emotion. 

I always make an effort to see both sides of things.  I will always choose either side, but I ACKNOWLEDGE the other side.  Most of the time when a 'negative' comment is made by one of 'us', it is shot down without anyone even considering it.  Even when we explain our position, using past actions and quotes by current band members, using quotes from past band members, using quotes from past managers, roadies, and whoever, we all get shot down.  Sure some of the quotes conflict.  Everything is not going to be one smooth timeline where everything flows easily.  There are conflicting reports sometimes.

But it is ridiculous when we are attacked for wanting some factual evidence from you positive people to back up your claims.  Of course no one can look into the future and tell when the album will come, how many songs will be played on the tour, how long shows will be, when the album AFTER CD will be released.... but we can make an educated guess as to how things will play out, based on what we have seen and experienced in the past.  Axl and the new guys have said a lot of things in the past that has yet to come true.  Its hard to take their word on anything anymore. 

This is where the pessimism comes from.  This is why we, the 'negative' folks, want to understand WHY you feel a certain way.  And if it is based on pure emotion and gut feelings then I am sorry, but you should expect to be questioned about it.  Just don't get too defensive. 

I await your angry responses...

How do I have an unrealistic view of things when you are quoting a guy who heard songs back in 1998/1999? That was 5 years ago, you really dont think from that point to know Axl has layed down vocals? I could see if he said that in 2005 that he heard songs and axl didnt have vocals for then you can worry, but why even complain about this when it was years before MAy said he heard 3 albums of songs with vocals?  It does not make any sense. Like I said certain people here will take a totally postive statement about axl put a negative spin on it.

Now you ask where did I get my number of songs a nite from? Like I said it was just a guess but 20-25 songs seems like a good number since they always played around 20. The extra 5 come from extra songs since they prob wont have guitar solos or drum solos on the CD tour.

Like I said most of us have been gnr fans since 86/87 and we know how axl is, so why are people still complaining about how he is?

I think 25 would be tough for axl to pull off.. His high voice and the frequency of shows.. That's just me though, but on occassion where there are a bunch of days off the show can be extended..

20 will most likey be the  number of songs played each night, 25 was the high end.

i already said it's all open to interpretation.

you say you 'explain' your positions are based on past actions and quotes... and you demand that we explain ours
 
i already said


I believe that the album will be released because Axl has not given up.. and shows no signs of giving up.
you want to make an effort to see something... try to see that? : ok:

as far as me being unrealistic or extreme... I already said:




so I do recognize / acknowledge both sides.

This is off topic, but just for a minute.? What did I say that was "sick"?? Because I said I "love to see people get all freaked out about this"?? ?Is that "sick"?? Is that considered stalking?? In my own defense, here, this is a forum where people post opinions about stuff, and all of us have different ones.? Maybe I should explain myself better by saying that I like to read the different opinions that are posted about the release of CD and about Axl.? Some (and I'm only saying some) people, from either side of the fence,? get so defensive when it comes to these topics, and it's interesting - for all of us - or we wouldn't be here.? I don't think that's stalking.? Plus, what was said by BG was sick.? I can only hope it was a joke.? ? ?

It did not take Brian Wilson 30 years to finish Smile. He made the album in a year or two. It was withheld from release for 30 years because he had major personal problems.

I'd rather want a true GN'R record over anything else since GN'R is my all time favourite band, but you are right, I really like Zep and NIN. BTW I'll happy to hear new material from Axl if it sounds like Barber described.

But I'm not psyched to read this since there isn't too much hope that this info is still relevant. Axl could have changed the whole idea 1000 times since then, I don't know how much of the '98-'99 material will be on the album (in a very different form...) and last but not least I don't see a release date. I don't hype myself for things that won't happen.

well since we know nearly nothing, axl could very likely face the same problems. his past comments about "former friends" trying to hinder him from releasing CD and playing as gnr aswell as the whole situation point to that.

and one shouldn`t forget that after 98-99 new members joined the band, who had new ideas....

TO say the vocals did not get laid down because of pirating is a little crazy to me.  I mean you take the risk and lay them down at some point.  Otherwise it was just a bunch of  musicians being conducted by Axl.

Good point, PhillyRiot. If these gag orders ever expire, it will be interesting to see what the late 90's version of GNR has to say about what happened during that time frame. I know this project has always been under a veil of secrecy. But at some point in the future, some of the people involved are going to break the silence.

Not only that James, I would say that once Geffen puts their foot down and forces the release, alot of "scrap" songs from that time period could be released.

It took Michelangelo bloody 7Years to paint a wall of Sistine with 'the last judgement'.
The painting is magestic and truely earthshattering as seen now, but until finished and delivered it would have been no better than 'graffiti on the wall' of an incredible and pretty building. 8)


Giving continual disturbance to the certain object that you bear a grudge against, the band or the fan, shall be considered as a stalking act. it's even sicker if it's for a fun.
You say you used to like the band and not anymore because of the member changes, which would be fine if you didn't intrude it into so many threads irreverently. Your real motive in posting in the threads discussing  the band and the music you're uninterested in is now quite questionable. (I'm not talking about your posts in the threads on the old band or otherwise.)  It seems as if you're attempting to drag us to a fruitless off topic argument, like in this thread, which you're likely to go on about and I shan't anymore. Enough is enough.

To get back to the point of this thread:

"version of the album that existed in 1998 was pretty incredible. It still sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in."

Man, I would kill to hear that stuff.  If it really sounded like that, it would have been ground breaking.  Such a waste.

honestly, I agree with you chad...  all of that material not being released in one form or another is frustrating to me.  Unfortunately, with the exception of us hardcore fans nobody would be willing to pay big bucks for a bunch of demos and unfinished songs. 

I hope that some one leaks it out at some point. 

Everybody needs to just stop bitching.  I'm under the impression from Tommy's last statement and Richards last words that something is supposedly happening in November.  If this is true, we might here something soon.  But then again, Axl may change his mind on things (songs, a release date..etc), and we once again won't hear anything. 

All we can go on is that we "may" hear something before the end of the year.  All other stuff is pointless to argue over.