Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was listening to "Thriller" of Michael jackson, all the legend around this album is about the? successive Top 3: Beat it- Billie jean- Thriller. Those 3 consecutive songs blow everything away. You can't resist, it's genius. The rest of the album is good, but what makes this album so legendary is definitelly this Top 3. It may be something to think about for the Chinese Democracy record. 3 consecutive songs that would blow everything away, just 3.

well there are two already The Blues and Madagascar im certain Uncle Axl has a lot more tricks up his sleeves and under his bandana

It should be stronger than the blues and madagascar. Altough they are great songs, beat it -billie jean- and thriller are better. Those 3 songs are incredible. They changed the world of music.

You make a very good point. The whole album doesnt have to be great for it to be considered a classic. To be honest, I dont even think it has to have 3. I think just one "earth shattering" song could resurrect his career. But keep this in mind: Axl is being held to a higher standard than MJ. All MJ had before Thriller was 'Off the Wall' and that old Jackson 5 shit. Thriller got unleashed on the world out of the blue, and it surprised alot of people.

i seriously think when these songs are released they will hit home to the non fans just like sweet child and november rain especially madagascar it is such a haunting clasical song

I have no doubt about it. But I think Axl has even stronger songs.

thats what i meant  :hihi:

Since Axl said there holding back the BIG guns, there most probably will be enough 'classics tobe' for a great 'come back'  :peace:

You mean 3 succesive singles like Jungle, SCOM, and PC. That is why AFD did so well-think about it. Three incredibly perfect radio rock songs. Great singles drive album sales. ;D

While I agree in the '3 strong songs to make an unforgettable album' concept, I also believe that the majority of the music listening world (yes, there are some that don't follow the ins and outs of the latest Santuary rumors, etc.) will look at Chinese Democracy as if it came 'out of the blue' and possibly (if it is also a strong album with at least 3 great singles) could 'surprise' many. Will it be Axl's 'Thriller'? I don't know. We'll have to wait and see.

Thriller was a HUGE success, but not just because of the good music. MJ's image(the moonwalk,the glove) and his innovative videos played a big part in the albums success. The song Thriller was the first 'epic' MTV ever played. It was a long song to begin with, and the video was like 15-20 minutes long. It was the most requested video on MTV in the early 80's. The album was definitely ahead of its time. It was so great, MJ could never top it. If Axl was to achieve 'Thriller' type success, he could fulfill his dreams to "bury AFD".

yeah...and "Thriller" sold over 50 million copies...HOLLY SHIT! :o? :o
Maybe Axl should call Quincy jones  ;D

or Paul McCartney! :D

To compare "Thriller" to "Chinese Democracy" is ridiculous; it is a near impossible wall to climb. Has any artist outsold "Thriller" in the last 23 years? No. "Thriller" is the best selling pop album of all-time selling 60 million records worldwide. It is certified platinum 27 times in the US. GNR's best selling album "Appetite for Destruction" is about 12 million records short of that.

Besides, "Thriller" has 7 top ten singles, not just 3.

However, if Axl is trying to write the next "Thriller", that might explain why it is taking so long.  :hihi:

"Thriller" was #1 during 9 month and 1 week in the American Album Charts. 37 successive weeks. That's fucking incredible. :drool: :o

What are you talking about?  Off The Wall was an amazing album.  It went to Number 3 in the US and sold over 7 million copies in the 70s, the same number as UYI 1 or UYI 2.  Noel Gallagher of Oasis reckons it's the best album ever made.

Thriller did was totally unique when it came out, perfectly blending pop, rock, R&B and soul as well as using amazing recording techniques and fantastic Quincy Jones production, it was just so far ahead of anything that it exploded on the scene.  But believe me, there were huge expectations on Micheal Jackson after Off The Wall, that's why he made such an effort with Thriller.  I mean the pressure was driving MJ mad before he realeased Thriller, there are many interviews where he stated that. 

Anyways, Axl has had this pressure on him before after not releasing a LP for 4 years after AFD...Then he released a little too much with the UYI albums...I wonder if he will do the same with CD to hedge his bets.  I hope that he just released one really great album with around 12 songs, 15 max, that are all killer with no filler!

I love this board, but I believe this may be a sign of the apocalypse:

We're now talking about Michael Jackson songs on here.

 :nervous:

We told Michael Jackson, don't you ever come around here
Don't wanna see your face, you better disappear
The fire's in our eyes and our words are really clear
So beat it, just beat it  :rofl:

btw Eddie VanHalen did the solo for Beat-It and didn't even get paid to do it!!! Check it out it's cool! (Thriller was my first album I ever bought :-[ )

When I saw gn'r in 2002 in London - Axl talked at length about chinese Democracy and seemed adamant that it would be at least an 18 track album - maybe more and that there were LOADS of songs gonna come out.  he also said that the songs they were playing live around then were assumed by press and public to be their strongest and the "new hits" - but he said "au contraire mon frere" and words to the effect of there was far more and better to come - which bodes really well!!!!

 8)

Maybe whaxl & Jacko should duet on a 21st century version of 'ebony & ivory'.

They could call it 'album delays & plastic surgery'.  :peace:

a few hits for an album might have been a mid 80s thingy, don't you think?

TOTALLY, it never happens anymore, it seems (to me) that bands and record companies just want 1 or 2 singles to get famous and sell records the rest is usually all filler.

That certainly wasn't always the case though, AFD and UYI's are prime examples

well good post man, but I think at this pace, Chinese Democracy needs 100% of excellent songs, anyway it is gonna fail ...

Carlos GMS said, "anyway, it will fail."  I don't agree with that opinion.  For God's sake, we have heard no studio tracks, none, zero, nada. 

3 good songs?  Trust me, the music will kick ass which makes this whole thing a success in my eyes.   :drool: :drool: :drool: I'm currently drooling over the prospects of clean studio versions of Maddy, IRS, and The Blues, that's 3 right there.  Don't even fuck with me saying those aren't great songs.  The music will be great...the marketing of this thing will be difficult.  Will the record-buying public forgive Axl for the lost years and the perceived Axl-caused break-up of the old band?  Will the record-stealing internet pirates screw with figures?  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.  I have confidence in W. Axl Rose.
   :peace:

there really aren't three songs like that since.. Not only classics but awesome music from a debut album..

As far as CD goes I have no idea what's on it. or what the big guns were and may be now so I say lets just wait and see before we start using thriller in refrence to CD. I also don't think rock songs are going to have the power that R&B or rap will as singles these days.. I doubt cd will be like an usher album from last year.. rock crosses very few but pop rnb or rap crosses many fans .. In america a rap album or single gets big in the c;lubs and every nationality buys these.. Look at how hollaback girl is doing.. 1,000,000 downloads(legal) That's because gwen has the marketing ability to cross over to every kind of music fan.. Rock usually doesn't have that same affect where blacks whites and spanish are all buying albums/singles.

Maybe Axl should duet with Enrique Iglesias...

no ricky martin.. hell run dmc helped aerosmith get back on their feet.. Nothing like J-Z n linkin park though.. Well didn't axl sing with shaq back in the day :hihi:

Axl should let Pharrell Williams produce the album. That would gurantee multi-platinum status, as everything Pharell has touched has gone platinum.

the name gnr is very well respected today.. No more of the back lash of grunge saying gnr was some 80's hairband so I think the name itself should get them back into it.. I wouldn't be suprised if a day of mtv was dedicated to guns n roses of old to introduce anyone who was in a coma..  This album should do really good just because of the name and how people view them as classic rockers..

Funny, I instantly thought the same thing.

The "triad" thing really does seem to be an overwhelming constant to "great" albums.

Think of any classic album and you almost instantly think of 3 great songs..boom, boom, boom.

Not that I'm a big Green Day fan, but their first three singles for American Idiot were pretty damn catchy. That is why it was so successful in relation to other recent rock albums. I'm not sure Axl has those radio friendly songs in him. He seems to prefer longer songs or songs with some form of profanity where radio won't play it. I thought the Illusion singles (I consider the Illusions more heavily Axl influenced) were weak in comparison to the other great album tracks such as Estranged, Locomotive, and Coma. Estranged made it to Mtv but not radio due to it's length (and the fact that Nov Rain already was on the radio). Whereas AFD'S three best tracks are the singles and were perfect for radio. Now, when I hear Merck mention "challenging and epic", radio friendly does not come to mind.

well, we know almost for sure that IRS for example is ca. 4-5 minutes long. chinese democracy, rhyiad and oh my god  are about 3 minutes long. maddy and the blues are ....5 minutes long (i`m not sure at the moment) and songs like prostitute will probably be around 5 minutes long ,too.

so there probably won`t be that much songs on CD that are more than 5 minutes long.
and i consider IRS very radio friendly. from what we`ve heard prostitute will be a killer song, too.
                                     i don`t think the succes of chinese democracy will basically depend on the quality of the music, because i think that it will be killer without a doubt, but on the promotion and how the press reacts because of the long time it took to come out and the new band.
 :beer:

But it's thinking like that, that will make CD a letdown. We have NO idea how prostitute sounds, we haven't HEARD shit.

Personally, I really don't give a shit how well it sells, I want to music to be good. Some of my favorite CDs aren't #1 sellers or even close, I love Days of the New & Candlebox just to name a couple. To me those 2 bands were fucking amazing, (and I personally think Weiland is great but if Travis Meeks would've sang for VR it would've been incredible) but with the exception of one single each both bands are virtually unknown (and broken up now i believe), but both bands have 3 albums each and I think they are all great. As long as the music is fulfilling to me personally, that's all I care about. I don't buy all the hype shit, "oh, CD will be the best album ever, it's challenging and epic" I'll buy the album and judge it for myself and I'll decide for myself about the EPICNESS of it. I like the music I like cuz I like it, not cuz you like it, or merck likes it, or 5 million who-the-fuck-evers like it. ya know what i'm sayin' : ok:

If a CD sells a bazzillion copies but it sucks balls, who cares, you will never listen to it again (eg i wish i would've never bought St Anger). I'd rather have a band with a small fanbase and amazing tunes then a band like Blink182 with shitloads of album sales but crappy music (of course its just IMHO)

It's all about the music not the money..... to me anyway

You're not alone Neemo. To me music is all about me! ie how I like it. :hihi:

I beg to differ. I said this in the other thread,

I gather from what Tommy said, (he didn't get a chance to hear all of the mixed songs cos he was pressed for time) The 6 the of pretty epics Tommy hadn't heard finished till then and managed to hear might be indeed quite long. (Then again You don't just have one go to check out the mind-blowing pieces you worked on.) Maybe they are the orchestral ones. He says A few of the songs are pretty epic in length and all the six are fucking huge epics.

Assuming NR is a regular epic in length,
how huge you think they are?  :drool:


Amen to that. :beer:

well     you missunderstood me i think. i don`t care if CD sells well or not. the only reason why the sales are important is that axl probably won`t release another album if CD flops and i think he needs "satisfaction".
i just wanted to say that CD will most likely feature a bunch of short and maybe even radio friendly songs.

but i don`t care if it sells well or not. just like to you , the music is the important part to me, but i think that the music AND the sales will be great.

and do you think i listen to gnr because it`s popular and 5 million " who-the-fuck-ever`s" listen to it, too??

interesting topic. here's some random thoughts...

1. creating three "classic" songs is much easier said than done. it involves luck and some things that are out of the artists control.

2. i'm guessing the direction axl is going will not produce mega-hits on the radio. just my guess. i could be wrong. ?

3. i think it takes more than three songs for an album to be considered classic. there were some hugely successful albums throughout the 90's (pearl jam, nirvana, no doubt, alanis morrissette, hooty, etc.). each of those had more than 3 hits on the radio.

4. AND most classic albums contain songs that, although never offical hits on the radio, are cult classics. (for example, i think it's so easy is one of the greatest songs ever made.) ?

it`s so easy was actually released as a single if i`m not wrong....  but you`re definitely right

No i didn't mean that and i didn't mean to sound angry on my post so i hope you didn't take it that way. ?:peace:

I'm just saying that everyone (well not everyone but alot of people) on here seems to think that the whole GnR Machine is based on money:

"the optimum time to release the album" (ie 2nd week of November)
"That they need a popular "image" to gather "new" fans"
"Radio Friendly songs"
"worrying about how well GH is selling, cuz apparently the success of that Piece of Trash is integral to the sales figures of the "impending" release CD"
"What songs they should play IF they ever tour again"
"How much Promotion time is neccesary to make it sell big"
"He needs (and wants) the best first day sales and 1st week sales of all time"

the list goes on and on and its quite rediculous, the more expectations you put on it the more disappointed you'll be.

If Axl wanted GnR to be just a money grab, I doubt he would wait this long to release something. (I would think more along the lines of an album every 2 or 3 years if it ws all about the money) that's all I'm saying.

With a time frame like we have been subjected to, I think, Axl wants this thing to be perfect (to him anyway) and when it's done I think he'll drop it whether It falls in november or january or on easter or on labour day. If it's good it'll sell, if it's not it'll flop, but I think all Axl cares about is that he's happy with it (I'm not saying that he won't want record sales mind you, I'm sure the more the better, but i don't think it's his #1 priority). and I also think he wants to show Slash, Duff, Steven & Izzy that he doesn't need them to make good music.

(This are my opinions only, not meant to be read as fact or like i know whats in Axl's head or anything like that, For all i know i could be totally fucking wrong about everything)

Iwould love to see how many albums of this album sell purely on the fact it is a new gnr album probably going to be marketed as first new work in 14 years or however many years it will be by the time it comes out?? This puppy can sell a million with a blank CD

The strength of an album is not in the singles, it's in the other songs that you don't here on the radio.  Look at how many hidden gems the Stones have or Zepplin. 

From what I have heard and seen at 2 New GNR shows, the new stuff had better get better.  The Blues, Mad, etc. are decent songs but not classic.  I don't think they will capture the attention of the masses.  I think we've all made ourselves believe that these new songs are great because it's all we've had for son long.  OMG, CD, and Silkworms are weak at best.

Well my friend AxlrOSEVen, what I meant was, that CD actually means more than only 2 great songs, you know the whole album should be excellent, anyway I love some of the new songs, but it took me some time to reach to point where I enjoyed them....     

Studio versions of Madagascar and The Blues really ought to do it.  :peace:

I don't know if its been said yet, but Thriller by MJJ was actually bigger than 3 Classic Singles.
Out of 9 songs issued on the record, 7 OF THEM HIT TOP-10 BILLBOARD.

"Wanna Be Startin Somethin'"
"The Girl Is Mine" (which was the 1st single of Thriller and hit #2 on the charts)
"PYT"
"Human Nature"

AFD is also more than three singles. Every rock fan who bought into the album knows that you can' just throw the record out after listening to WTTJ, PC & SCOM. Sure these other songs (like Its So Easy, Mr Brownstone, My Michelle) may not have charted, but they made GNR even more endearing to the fans.

MNR

I think the record in its entirety made GnR endearing to the fans. If I only enjoyed GnR for the singles, and well known tracks, I would be missing out on the truly brilliant stuff that goes unnoticed as it is from the fans. Killer tracks like Breakdown, or Coma make GnR endearing to me, not just the singles..

if axl wants this album to be amazing he much take the same approach the beatles did when making the white album.