Here Today... Gone To Hell!

New Orleans cops suspended for beating caught on video

Tuesday, October 11, 2005 at 07:33 JST

NEW ORLEANS ? Three New Orleans police officers filmed beating a 64-year-old man during a weekend arrest in the city's French Quarter were suspended and arrested on Monday.

Graphic footage of the brutal beating, aired on television, showed two white officers punching the African-American man while detaining him late Saturday.


The film later showed the man lying on the ground, his arms restrained behind him, his face and shirt covered in blood on a Bourbon Street sidewalk.

"They did him like Rodney King," said Frank Anderson, a 40-year-old African-American construction worker on Bourbon Street. "Those officers ain't no better than these guys who are stealing things."

The officers were suspended and arrested after commanders viewed the video footage of the confrontation, which ended with the 64-year-old man handcuffed.

"What is obvious is that our officers used more than the force necessary," acting police superintendent Warren Riley said after viewing the tape shot by a news camera crew who happened across the incident.

"To see this tape, it's troubling," he told CNN television.

The police officers were arraigned on battery charges in court on Monday and then freed on bail pending trial. The officers left the court with their attorneys who told reporters the men were innocent.

"We are endeavoring to ascertain why this encounter occurred at all," Riley said. "We will take swift and decisive action."

The beating victim, who was hospitalized and later released, was charged with public drunkenness, resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer. The man did not appear to struggle in the taped portion of the clash with police.

Riley cautioned against a rush to judgment however, saying that unseen factors may have been in play during the confrontation.

The officers allegedly also clashed with the camera man who filmed the incident.

As officers pounded the beating victim, a mounted police officer appears to maneuver his horse to block the camera shot.

Another police officer allegedly shoved the camera crew producer onto a parked car and reportedly cursed at him and shouted "I've been here for six weeks trying to keep alive. Go home."

Local police officials have said the stress of working through the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, exacerbated by personal loss and suffering, could have pushed some officers over the brink.

"Everyone's a little tense right now, that much is to be expected," said Wallace McGill, a 32-year-old New Orleans native. "But, if you are that tense, you shouldn't be out on the street. You need a leave of absence."

McGill and his companion, John Evans, were among the African-Americans in the French Quarter on Monday who were appalled, but not surprised, by word of the alleged police brutality.

"That isn't anything new," said a man with a complete set of gold teeth. "That's why I don't come out here at night. Next time, they'll take me for a beating and no one is going to get it on camera."

Anderson, who is from the state of Georgia, said he was already cautious about local police.

"I know where I'm at," Anderson said. "You have to watch your back anyway."

The New Orleans police department has been criticized for its performance in the wake of the hurricanes that lashed the city beginning Aug29.

Officers have been accused of looting, taking cars, desertion, and shooting dogs left behind by fleeing residents.

Riley defended the integrity of his department, saying that acts of sacrifice and heroism by officers abounded in the aftermath of hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

He said there were "a few bad cops like you have everywhere.

"That handfull of officers we have who have been involved in incidents that embarrass this police department, we want to weed them out," Riley said. (Wire reports)

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=351740

Fuck those guys....give them jail time.

I hope you're talking about all the looters, rapist and murders this tragedy brought out into the light.  I'm sure the man who was arrested and beated did nothing to warrant that level of force.  Let a jury who is presented with all the facts decide the outcome.  Rodney King got what he deserved and the jury decided that.  If these cops used excessive force, then they should be penalized.  But I'll be damned if I'm gonna focus my attention onto 2 cops rather than the criminals who constantly endanger the lives of the men in blue and citizens of New Orleans.

Rodney King?

The article interviewed someone who identified this beating the same as Rodney King.  People assume that King was just an innocent man, but he was a drug dealer high on PCP who attacked those cops - thus the beating was justified.  My point is that a jury who has all the information - not some partial video - should decide if these men are guilty.

Man, your gone waaay over my hed. i just wantedt oknow who he was.

 ???

Rodney King was a black man (yes, a criminal as mentioned above) who was pulled over by white police and some say beaten with excessive force.  It turned into a big racial thing in Southern California (I believe the media made it bigger than it was by repeatedly calling King "black motorist").  The officers were tried and originally acquitted of excessive force charges, leading to riots in many areas.  They were later retried on federal charges and convicted of some minor charges, I believe. 

OH. I think I herd about that on Opera one time.

cool. thanx :)

I'm talking about the police who took an oath to uphold, which the broke by beating that man.

So yea, fuck them, give them jail time.

Maybe we should sterilize all those black people.......that way the white cops would not have to beat them down like this.

Smart arse!!!

(http://tinypic.com/ehm0xv.jpg)

Haha! I'm bad.

yea, but I got it....so who cares...... ;D

Damn, you had me. ?I thought I was all nice, trying to help the slow guy. ? :)

The difference is, Rodney King was asking for it. This guy was just allegedly drunk or something, not doing anything too serious.

if that's your honest opinion i hope you do too.

Again, I don't know all the facts and am reserving my judgement until I find out more.  As I said earlier, if these cops used excessive force they deserved to be punished under the law.  However, this country and our media tend to distort what really happened in rare instances such as this and more people end up being harmed as a result.

What's that supposed to mean?  What do I "deserve".  Do I deserve to have the shit kicked out of me because I'm not a reactionary or because I don't share all of the same liberal opinions that majority of this board has.

no, but because you seem to take the "white" side in defense regardless, without knowing the case at all. you're quick to twist it around ain't you, blaming the "looters". why don't you attack the white "searchers" too.

Nobody deserves to be brutalized like King or this guy in N.O.  Especially by cops.  I sure would hate to be them if they get convicted but what are the chances of that in the South?

What white side?  I haven't seen the video yet so I don't even know if all the cops were white.  I don't know if the force was warranted in this case.  If it was not, then the police should be punished for thier crimes.  How is that taking a white side.  If I'm not mistaken, people of all race and creed were looting.  Please don't call me a racist because I don't hate the police.  If you have race issues, that's on you but I ask that you not in any way shape or form call me a racist or biggot, ecspecially when I've made it clear 3x now that the cops should be punished if they were guilty.  I only advocate leting the legal system work rather riot in the streets as has happened multiple times when a black person was assualted by police - justifiably and unjustifiably.

Sounded like a pretty "white" answer to me.  You say King deserved getting beat like that and then you said the media blows these cases out of proportion, the typical white defense.  These acts by the police can not be justified and those who try tend to be racists so if the shoe fits...

I think the public outcry will overshadow where it is taking place. I hope so anyway.



Right, but you sure turned around real quick and started talking about all the criminals in that city. Seems to me you were trying to overshadow the actions of the cops. I know you guys are used to changing the subject and all.....

You guys show outrage at 2 cops' actions following Katrina, and you show outrage at the way we SUPPOSEDLY treat prisoners of war in Iraq, but you show zero outrage at the looters and rapists after Katrina and zero outrage at the way Al Quada treats prisoners of war (i.e. cuts their heads off).  And then you wonder why it is hard to sympathize with your view points.  Maybe if you guys just once saw outrage in some of these more outrageous things other non leftist extremeists would see your point of view more clearly.  But when you condemn 2 cops without knowledge of context and then get upset when someone mentions the hundreds of looters and rapists, your opinions hold no weight for the rest of us.

I agree with Guns, let the legal system sort it out.  If they are guilty then they should be punished.  No problem with that.  In the same vein, all of those looters should be punished as well.  And I have no idea how you can see this as a black or white thing.  It is non-racial. 

I agree whole heartedly that these cops should be punished if they broke the law (and preliminary findings sho they did).  However, our legal system labels someone as innocent until proven guilty.  With the media, they destroy that and thus harm the rights and lives of real innocents.  As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye.  Why the double standard and why not let all the information come to light first?  If being objective and wanting more information before I advocate prison for two cops makes me a "racist" in your opinions, that's just more reason for me value your opinions even less.

Can you point me to the specific posts made where someone defended those, specifically, who were raping and looting in NO after the hurricane?

Or posts that specifically did not condem, or in some way condoned, AQ's treatment of prisoners by cutting off heads, etc?

Thanks.

Can you point me to the post where anyone who isn't labeled a conservative advocated  they be punished?? Kayne West anyone?:? ?http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22401.msg388034#msg388034? The debate had many people defending the looting and saying that police had bigger things to worry about than looters.? They wanted to turn a blind eye to those actions so they could keep the foucs on Bush.?


edited due to poor wording

it's interesting that people accuse others of taking the "white" point of view. i think that comment is racist.

i think cops should be given alot of slack when it comes to these situations. and there's plenty of blacks that agree with me.

cops have to make a judgement call in a stressful situation, when their life is on the line. but if it's completely obvious that they continued to strike someone unnecessarily when the criminal was subdued, then they should be punished.

but if a black cop is trying to arrest a white guy who's high on crack, and the white guy is fighting back, the black cop should be able to crack his skull with his stick to get him down.

Unfortunately for you....you made the claim, and thus the burden of proof is on you. ?You make a very specific accusation about defending people who raped and looted after NO or AQ members who cut the head off prisoners. ?

I'm not sure if you know...but I'm not Kanye West. ?I'm pretty sure SLC isn't either. ? As a matter of fact, I doubt he posts here (he doesn't strike me as a GnR fan) In addition, you said :

"As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye."

The phrase "you all" would mean you were addressing the people you were "speaking" to. ?YOU ALL get worked up and YOU all defend those. ?

So, again...you have any proof of that? ?Since you're addressing the readership of this board, and SLC in particular since he was the post that Charity responded to........

And that thread you linked? ?Nothing there about the looters, really. ?Not in the whole topic. ?No discussion at all. ?Certainly no one defending the looters, rapers, or AQ members.

Where did I mention AQ?  Don't confuse my post with Charity Case's please.  You all is a general term pointed at those reactionary members - no specific names were mentioned.  In fact, SLC said in the Katrina thread


I don't make it a point to argue with SLC regardless of what you think.  My point was and is that certain members of the board are sympathetic to looters which was shown in the post I cited above but jump to conclusions about one incident.

I'll admit that I was wrong in stating that no one other than "conservatives" advocated for the punishment of looters.? I stand corrected and part of my response to Pilferk was inaccurate.

Nope, because it's not proof. It's a slipperly slope.? ?Agreeing with her right to speak, or some of her ideology, does not mean you support every word she utters.

?In addition, you endorsed Charity's viewpoint with an agreement of sentiment and referenced the particular passage I addressed.? I assumed you meant all of it.? If I was incorrect, I apologize.


You agreed, in sum total, with his post and then levied the accusation of defense.

In addition, you all is a very specific term targeted at your audience. It's not, at all, general. Perhaps you should edit the post if you'd like to change it's meaning (now that you've been proven incorrect).


The post you linked doesn't, at all, show "that certain members of the board are sympathetic to looters ". ?I see one post POSSIBLY being sympathetic, but even that's a stretch. ?And it certainly isn't defending them, which is the claim you actually made in your post.

So, I'll clarify, since you seem to want to stick to the AQ reference, rather than address the actual point:

Please show me a post, anywhere on this board, that defends looters and rapists in NO, or anywhere else?

I agree, that those police officers should be punished for what they did.. But also, I think, the conditions should be taken into concideration. 1) That the police over there have had to work unbelieveably long shifts (some have had to sleep in their patrol cars,) since there are just not enough policemen, and  2) at least in the Finnish media it has been mentioned that the man had resisted arrest before the incident took place.

I know what they did was wrong, and there is nothing to make it right, but if you imagine yourself into a situation where you've been working really long shifts, and then there's a guy making your job a hell of a lot more difficult just because... It just might drive someone over the edge. I haven't seen the video, so I can't say how badly they beat the man up, so I can't say if this was the case. Just saying that it's a possibility, and if so - it should be taken into concideration when they're given their penalties.. The city is in a pretty tight spot at the moment. They lack fresh policemen since many have quit, and some have even commited suicides, and keeping the tired men out there is not really helping, but it's the only thing they can do.

Guns N' Rock Music...didn't you know that if you don't take the black guys side, without having any of the facts, that you are a racist.

Its the first rule of political correctness 101.    :hihi:


Sarcasm off

pilferk, all semantics aside, the point being made here is we come to this board and see certain members start threads that deal with specific issues like cops beating someone in NO or mistreatment of prisoners of war in Iraq. ?These issues often times have a relationship with or close connection to other more sinister acts that otherwise get ignored by the same people. ?

For example, I have seen plenty of discussion and outrage on this board over the mistreatment of prisoners of war by the US in Iraq and very little if no outrage or discussion over the way the enemy treats its prisoners of war. ?Why do you think that is? ?Why the inequity in outrage especially when given that what the US has done is basically hazing and the enemy is beheading prisoners? ?Why do you think certain people here would rather discuss the US's mistreatment and not Al Quada's beheadings og their prisoners? ?I can think of only one reason, to promote anti-Americanism. ?I would love to hear any toher reason you can think of. ?Maybe you will enlighten us.

On the acutal situation...I'm reserving judgement.

I've seen the tape, and it seems to start as the beating is already pretty much in progress/ the "incident" has already began. ?Given that....without having some more info, it's tough to condemn the cops.

That being said, I think they used excessive force, given the situation (I'm not a cop, though, so...). ?The guy is brittle as paper. I have to think they could have subdued him using a bit less than they did. ? Whether they should be severely punished depends on whether the force was warrented or not. ?If he resisted, they are within their rights to use force (and let IA decide if it was excessive or not). ? If not.....they should be punished.

Simple as that.

I'll reserve my judgement.  Remember, during the Rodney King incident, the media liked to skip over the part where Rodney (a very large man) was going after the policemen.  It wouldn't surprise me if they were leaving out pertinent information in this case too.  It happens all too often.

Why do I think that is? ?Because I think a conversation about the outrage of the way enemies treat our POW's would be pretty much along the lines of this:

God, I'm outraged

Yup, me too.

Oh yeah, me too. We should go in there and gut those motherfuckers who did this.

See how that goes? ?There's not a whole lot of discussion. ?I've seen the exact types of threads you want to see...they die quickly. ?It doesn't mean we're not all outraged. ?It means there isn't much point to the discussion because the overwhelming sentiment is going to be identical, or nearly so (unless Walk posts there, that is...and we get a good chuckle), so many posters will read that THEIR opinion has been expressed already and move on.

As for why you see more threads like this one...it's an easy answer. ?They promote discussion. ?It's the same reason you see more US political threads than, say, French or UK political threads.

If you want to see threads on those subjects (meaning AQ treatment of our POW's..not French and UK politics)...start 'em. ?I'll chime in with some healthy outrage and condemnation. We might be the only ones, though.

Sure we start threads on such issues. But such threads form about 1% of our total posts. However, u (and some others here) seem to post only in these threads. How come I never see u post in any other section?


The guy is 64 yrs old, for goodness sake. What is he going to do against 4 cops?

How about innocent until proven guilty.  Why are you so quick to condemn the cops without all the evidence?  What is your agenda?

IF he resisted arrest, the use of force was justified. ?The determination of "excessive force" is one best made by an independant member of the police department. ?Being a civilian, I look a the tape and think the amount of force used was excessive...but, the fact of the matter is...those cops are the ones risking their lives AND trained at subduing a suspect.

As I said, if the force wasn't justified, they deserve to be severely punished. ?If it was excessive, but justified, it's probably something best left to IA to deal with.

Because it's not the cops that got beaten up is it? It's not like he had a weapon or anything. If he resisted arrest, does it take 4 officers to beat him up and subdue him? Don't think so...

What other section is of interest? ?Please don't tell me that anything that happens in the GNR section is of interest. ?Only once in a blue moon is there anything to discuss. ?And the simple fact of the matter is that I rather enjoy the exchange here.

pilferk, your point is well taken and make sense. ?It just seems to me that certain posters get a kick out of being as anti-American as possible. ?I'm sure I'm not the only one who agrees with that. ?But as I said before, I enjoy the exchange here. ?It is good escapism during the day for 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there. ?I guess you are right that if we all agreed on a topic it would be over quickly. ?I just doubt that we woujld all agree on some of these topics that you think would have unanimous agreement. ?Maybe I'll start a thread one of these days and see.

Yeah, this just so happens to be a 'Anti-Bush, Anti-Iraq' board. Forget other sections. I don't see u post in other threads even. Telling.


That's exactly it.

Yes, SLC (lets call the elephant in the corner the elephant, eh?) likes to "stir the pot", in a sense.? Again, it's not Anti-American...it's that he likes (no matter what he might say) the exchange he gets here.? He posts things he knows will garner discussion (and probably a bit of what he knows will inflame the conservatives). :)

Again, we could all post articles about things we'd all agree on...but not only would it be boring, the threads would be dead quickly.

How about we get back on topic before the mods YANK us back.

An article in the paper this morning interviewed the victim and he said he was sober and just out looking for cigarettes.  He's a retired school teacher that was in NO to check on his house and possessions.  I'll agree that the police have been worked to death down there and they have not had time to collect themselves but it has been just as streesful for the residents too, so I don't think that excuse holds much water.

also, little has been said about the cop that attacked the press guy and cursed him out in a tirade.  The cops seemed bent on something....

oh boy...... ::). After all these traumas in this world, why can't God watch Superman more often? I got a serious question though. Would all of you still think these cops were jerks if they beat up a white victim, chinese , italian, puerto-rican instead of an african-american? That seems like it's the only reason you hate the cops because they beat up a black man.

Nobody said they hate cops.

Any man getting beat down by the cops I am against.....


Those on this thread say we should let the jury judge the police who did this. OK, the same should go for the person arrested. The jury should judge them, not the cops. They do not have the power to be the cop, judge, jury, and punisher all in one.

Fuck those cops who did this.

Keep in mind that the police actually have the right to hit people, if its necessary to subdue, arrest them, or for the officers own safety.  Most would rather not engage in fighting, because they get hurt too.  What a jury will decide is if the police used excessive force, that is, did what they did cross a line of what was necessary?  It certainly looks like that in this case, but unless you are on the jury watching the whole tape and hearing the evidence, you don't know. 

Most people only saw the same 10 seconds of the Rodney King tape and were lead to believe it went on and on in the same fashion.  Those of us who saw the whole tape actually saw a very different story.  That is why I believe the officers in that case were originally acquitted. 

Like I said, it sure looks bad for the officers involved.  And I hope they are dealt with appropriately.  But the simple fact that they were seen hitting someone doesn't make them guilty of using excessive force.  I haven't seen the entire tape yet, so I haven't made my own judgement, I'm just going by what I've heard. 

This guy is a 64 yr old elementry school teacher, that said he hasn't had a sip of alcohol in 25 years. Hey, even if he was out of line, did they really need to use that kind of force on a retired old guy?

Look at this guy....what a maniac!  :hihi: I'm suprised they didn't have to taser him too......

(http://tinypic.com/ei9gud.jpg)

They should have tasered him.  Then they wouldn't be in trouble.  Pepper spray works good too.  I'm all for taking out the bad guy with the least amount of danger to the police.  That doesn't mean I think they should beat the hell out of an innocent man.  But I have a hard time feeling sympathy for criminals.  The police might be wrong, and if so, they will be punished.  But I won't feel sorry for that guy.  No matter how sweet he looks.

You don't feel bad that the old man was beat down by two cops?

No not really.  What was he doing that they wanted to arrest him in the first place?  Because I'm quite certain he wasn't strolling down the street minding his own business.  I feel bad that a few cops who can't control their tempers make people think badly of all police.  That upsets me far more.

I thought arrest meant innocent until proven guilty? Just because he was arrested doesn't mean he was guilty, giving a green light for an illegal beatdown.

What if that was your Dad getting beat? Would you still stay the same thing?

First off, I didn't say he deserved it.  And I didn't say it was ok.  I just said I don't feel sorry for him.

My dad was a cop.  He doesn't put himself in situations where he's likely to get arrested.   And my entire life, my main concern was that my dad make it home every night.  And before anyone dare suggest he would beat anyone illegally, understand that he was an incredibly well respected officer in that community.  He's probably very bothered by this video and would disagree with me on this point.  He treated all people with respect, which is why he was a good cop and I never could be.  But for me,  what it comes down to is that a police officer's life is more valuable to me than a criminal's.  And I don't feel sympathy for people who get injured when they commit a crime.  I just don't.  Don't do anything wrong, then you don't have to worry about getting roughed up by a bad cop. 

I would have to see the video from the beginning

Cops have a dangerous job, my brother is a cop and he has been drug by a moving car down the highway at 50 miles an hour before


they risk their lives so I dont have to, so i say if they beat this guy, he probably deserved it.

most cops are good cops, some cross the line but when u are risking your life, I dont think I am the one to sit here and judge them.

I agree with Sterling here 100 percent.

Some of u on these boards are so ridiculous u make me laugh.

u dont know if a guy is gonna blow your head off when uwalk up to that car, u dont know if he is gonna stab u or what.

There are police academy rules

If a suspect resists arrests, u arrest them by any means necessary.

if he fought the cops, he got what he deserved.

most cops arent gonna beat someone for the hell of it.

If he hadnt resisted, he wouldnt have got beat.

people turn the video cameras on to capture the very end of things and it makes it look worse than it is.

Rodney King deserved to get beat worse than he did to be honest.

The cops are doing their jobs, they are under a lot of stress, and are dealing with a lot of dangerous people.

its easy to judge when u arent the one having to do the job.

I got all the respect in the world for cops and they shouldnt go to jail for this.

Is one guy getting beaten by a cop really national news anyway?  Local news for sure.  However, the only thing this story is going to do is inflame black people across the country.  Especially when the media doesn't report the WHOLE story.  Sometimes the media has to take some type of responsibility for what they deem national news.  Sometimes I think the media actually wants an open race war with the way they report things.

Yeah, it's the media's fault that the cops beat up an old man.  The way some of you guys rationalize a person getting beat is beyond me.  Nobody, regardless of color, religion, etc., deserves to get beat like this man or King.  When other officers are saying it was too much then you know it was, but yet some of you still defend the actions of cops.  Cops can't walk on water.  If it were a group of black cops beating a white old man what would you say? 

Some of u are so Naive


What if that guy was high on Crank or Meth?

guess what, he'd have the strength of ten men.

u werent there u dont know
U can watch part of a video and make a decision

thats bullshit.

other officers are tryin to cover their asses which is why they are sellin their brothers down the river.

if a cop beats someone, 90 percent of the time, its probably justified.

Im not saying there arent bad cops, but for 3 to do it in the open, i just believe the guy did something to provoke it.

Well if we know he hasn't been drinking for 25 years there are poor chances he was high on something.
And the guy was 64  :-X


I don't get it defending the cops to that point ... in Europe I guess that the beating on itself is blameworthy, guilty or not guilty the cops just don't have the right to beat up people.

That wasn't the point.

I think you are missing a point here.

Even if the guy was guilty enough to be arrested, then gave them a hard time, it STILL does not warrant that kind of beating. That is not how we are supposed to operate in America. A stike of force to take the guy down sure, but after that, does the beating continue?

And, once more, the guy is a retired 64 yr old man. I ask all of you how you would react if that was your Dad being beat down like that. Would you first say "Oh well, we should not judge the cops without evidence." The hell you would. You would be screaming foul from moment one.

So yea, am quick to condemn the cops. I can't imagine much that could justify their actions, sorry. Once the guy was down, it doesn't matter if he shot a cop, their job is to arrest that man and take him in. Not beat him to a pulp..... that is why we have a justice system. One of the things we claim divides us from the rest of the world? A police force that does not act with brutality and like it is the wild west when they feel.

If a man is fighting back that is different, but was he? Or were they just beating his ass?

And if the police were arrested....they must have been doing something right? I mean, that is what you are placing on the victim, can that not be applied to the police as well?

Those women wearing short skirts were provoking "it" too.....huh?

This pic was taken after the beating.... With the exception of the black eye It doesn't look like he took an "excesive" beating.

Untill you have had to subdue and handcuff a suspect you can't begin to understand what is necesary to achive that goal.

I just watched the beating again (two different shots). It was totally fuckin inexcusable!

Anybody you thinks this is ok is an ASSHOLE. Straight up.

This guy was standing still up against the wall, and then.....

They sucker punched this guy four times, then choked him and while he was be held on the ground they continued to beat him in the back head. A white woman came out of the crowd and said "he didn't do anything, he didn't do anything". The threatened to arrest her. The video is clear as day, that these assholes abused their power. Then they attack the camera man by pushing him against the car and yelling at him.

http://media.putfile.com/neworleanspolicebeating96

Anybody who backs this shit up is a total loser!

Apparently their supervisor did not approve: ?"The actions that were observed on this video are certainly unacceptable by this department," Riley said, and "To see this tape, it's troubling," he told CNN television.


This pic was taken after the beating.... With the exception of the black eye It doesn't look like he took an "excesive" beating.

Untill you have had to subdue and handcuff a suspect you can't begin to understand what is necesary to achive that goal.

Yea, take a look at the actual bleeding and the injuries sustained to his head. There is blood everywhere, and his eye is swollen shut.

So, let me ask you this: as long as the beating isn't excessive, then it is ok? Is that what you are saying?

What is wrong with you people?

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=19865

This video interview says enough. These two men who were relief volunteers witnessed the entire thing. They said the video did even show the extent of the beating.


**************



BRADENTON, Fla. ? Two hurricane relief volunteers said they were grabbed and shoved roughly by at least one federal official in New Orleans after they saw two police officers beating a man whose assault was videotaped by reporters.

Homeland Security officials said they were investigating the allegations.

University of South Florida students Calvin Briles and Mike Monaghan said they were walking in the French Quarter this weekend when they came across Robert Davis, whose taped beating was captured by an Associated Press Television News crew. An APTN producer was also pushed against a car by another officer.

"We couldn't believe it. ... It was just a bad situation," Briles, 21, told the Bradenton Herald.

When law enforcement tried to clear bystanders from the area, Briles said, "I want to tell somebody about this."

The Palmetto resident said that's when a man wearing a U.S. Customs vest grabbed him, threw him against a car, pressed his head against the hood and told him, "It's none of your business."

"I was just manhandled like I've never been before," Briles said, adding that another official also pushed him around. "They wouldn't let me say anything."

Monaghan, 22, of Bradenton, said he saw Briles' cell phone hit the ground as he was pressed against the car and handcuffed. Monaghan said he then tried to pick up the phone and a police horse "nudged" his head. An unidentified official grabbed him from behind and asked him why he hit the horse, he said.

Monaghan said he hadn't hit the horse but that the official handcuffed him, kicked his legs open and searched his pockets. He said he was let go shortly after, but Briles remained face down on the pavement.

Briles said officials listed a handful of charges he would face, including impeding a federal investigation. But no one read him his Miranda rights, he said. After checking for a criminal record, the officials let him go, he said.

"We felt violated," Briles said.

The two students returned to Florida and said they reported the incident to federal officials.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Marc Raimondi said Wednesday that "we take all allegations seriously." He said the Homeland Security Department's inpesctor general would look into the case.

Wade Thompson, the students' lawyer, said his clients had no additional comment when contacted by the AP.

The two city police officers accused in Davis' beating, and a third accused of grabbing and shoving the APTN producer, pleaded not guilty to battery charges and were released Monday. Davis pleaded not guilty to charges of public intoxication, resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation.

___

should those cops be punished?  YES.

should the laws be changed to give cops more leeway in these situations?  YES.

How so?

Leeway in what regard?

oh man dont you love democracy...or rather judging by that video, whats left of it... :hihi:

When we gonna hear when a black cop beat up a white guy, this shit pisses me off!!

Just to be clear on my point, I'm not saying that action shouldn't be taken against the officers, it should.  A jury will look at it and decide if it is excessive force.  To me, I would guess it is.  But I haven't seen the whole tape, I've seen maybe 5 seconds of it. 

I also now see that the man is claiming that he was indeed just walking down the street.  If that's true, then its outrageous and unacceptable.  I don't believe that for a second, but again, that's why he was charged with a crime and we'll see if he's found guilty or not. 

My point was only that I don't feel sorry for someone who gets injured when they commit a crime, particularily if the crime is against a police officer.  That doesn't mean I think the police should have leeway to beat the hell out of anyone who pisses them off.  And if they are bad cops, and they committed a crime, they should suffer punishment for it.  But no one will ever make me feel sorry for a criminal.  I believe too strongly in personal responsibility and suffering the consequences of your choices.  That goes for the cops too, if they committed a crime and lose their jobs or go to jail, I won't feel sorry for them either. 

I would only like to point out that "excessive force" tends to be a subjective term.  How much is too much?  Maybe its obvious it was too much in this case, I don't know, I haven't actually seen much of the tape.  But the simple fact that an officer hit someone doesn't make it a crime.

The other side of the story:

NOPD Lawyer: Tape Doesn't Tell Whole Tale
By ROSS SNEYD, Associated Press Writer
17 minutes ago

NEW ORLEANS - A police union official and a lawyer for officers accused in the beating of a retired teacher on Wednesday sharply disputed the man's contention he was brutalized during his arrest, which was captured on video.

Attorney Frank DeSalvo said the video shows a truncated version of the Saturday night arrest and he disputed details the video shot by Associated Press Television News appears to have captured, including whether the 64-year-old suspect was punched in the face.

"I see an incident of a man trying to be brought under control who doesn't want to be brought under control," DeSalvo said.

The man who was beaten, Robert Davis, pleaded not guilty Wednesday to charges of public intoxication, resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation.

Davis has described himself as a recovering substance abuser who has not had a drink in 25 years. His lawyer asked prosecutors to dismiss charges, but his trial was set for Jan. 18.

The two city officers accused in the beating, and a third accused of grabbing and shoving an APTN producer, are due to go on trial on battery charges a week before Davis' trial.

Davis' lawyer, Joseph Bruno, said the APTN videotape of the confrontation shows his client being brutalized by police for no reason. After the arraignment, however, leaders of the city's police union offered their own interpretations.

Police union officials described Davis as so intoxicated that he staggered down the street, stumbled into a police horse and became belligerent when officers intervened.

DeSalvo said police union officials had "broken the thing down frame by frame" and saw officers trying to bring under control an angry man. "He brought it on by his actions," DeSalvo said.

No tests for intoxication were administered following the arrest. In such cases, judges typically rely on officers' observations, said police spokesman Marlon Defillo.

The officers involved in the incident _ Lance Schilling, Robert Evangelist and S.M. Smith _ did not speak during the news conference. DeSalvo said Schilling and Evangelist hit Davis' shoulders, and he denied the arrest was as violent as has been portrayed.

"He clearly was not hit in the face," DeSalvo said.

DeSalvo also disputed Davis' lawyer's contention that Davis suffered fractures to his cheek and eye socket. DeSalvo said the injuries were scrapes caused when he was placed face down on the pavement.

The three officers have been suspended without pay. Lt. David Benelli, president of the police union, said the suspensions would be appealed, although that's been delayed by a city government stalled in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Davis did not speak to reporters after his arraignment. He has said he approached a mounted police officer to ask about the city's curfew while searching for cigarettes on Bourbon Street and a confrontation ensued with another officer.

i think policemen should be allowed to use more force than the law currently permits. especially when someone is resisting arrest. for example, if you show ANY resistance, cops should be allowed to club you over the head with their night stick three times.

good point. you hear about it occasionaly, but it doesn't sell as many newspapers.

there was a big story in philly a few months back involving a black cop abusing a white guy, but the story went away quickly. there's no political activists out there that will make a big issue of it.

no matter what color, i have little sympathy for criminals.

I think its funny how people can take the word of an old former drug addict over respected police officials, what does that say bout some of u?

SLC u need to stop looking at one side of stuff and jumpin to conclusions

thats what u do dude on everything

U never take the time to look at both sides of the story and THEN make a fair judgement

U see one side and jump on others who choose to wait to hear both sides of the story which is what u are suppose to do.


the photo of that guy isnt bad, I dont think he was beat that bad and if he was resisting arrest

HE FUCKIN DESERVED IT!

Loser, asshole call me what u will, but U arent down there tryin to restore order to a fuckin place that has been ripped apart now are u?

I just had two State Trooper friends of mine come back from New Orleans and they couldnt believe how out of control it was. Everyone jumps on the cops but this guy was obviously breaking the law, then he obviously resisted and kept resisting arrest.

People cant see past a 64 year old man, that is insignificant, U all act like old people arent capable of pullin out a gun and shooting u or stabbing u.

So who are u to judge anybody on how they go about doing their job?

U arent the one risking your livelihood and your life, they are, so maybe u should chill on who u call names.....

How bout that?

Cops know what they are getting into when they sign up.  It's not Andy of Mayberry out there anymore.  They have to be able to keep their cool, no matter the situation.  For better or for worse they sat the example are are supposed to uphold the law not twist it and bend it to fit their needs at the time.

Other Video:

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/october/ogrish-dot-com-new_orleans_beating.wmv

Shame on you.

You can clearly see the extent of the beating here. Not the cleaned up mugshot and next day picture all the aplogists want to hold dear for arguments sake. There is blood everywhere, all over his face, the ground, his shirt, pants etc. He has had the shit beat out of him. I like how the cop comes up and pushes his back with his boot as he starts to roll over to get his face out of the blood.

I guess that is when they gave him the resisting arrest with violence charge..... ::)

Lets see: AP reporter grabbed and pushed on a car, two relief workers handcuffed and pushed down (now testifying to federal authorities), a cop on a horse trying to block the camera man, people shouting from the crowd "he didn't do anything", and a tape of two cops beating a man in the back of the head, before, and after he is down. And people say I'm just taking sides without weighing all the evidence?  ::) Wake the fuck up. Even if he did resist arrest (which he was not), it is not ok to beat this man like this.

At this point I am just as disturbed that anybody could condone this as much as the act itself. And, this is the only board where I have seen anybody ok it.

Yeah because after all  here you are just one of those mean lefties !!!  :yes: ;D

I guess my opinion doesn't actually matters because I'm not an USA resident. But it scares the shit of me when people never question the police or ask for an extension of its power wherever it may be. In France Nicolas Sarkozy scares the shit out of me ! Extention of powers for the police or the army is for me the sign of a weak democracy.

i understand your point. you think it could turn into a slippery slope, and someday we'll all live in fear of the policemen.

but i'm worried about the slippery slope that has existed for years in the U.S. The one that protects criminals more than law-abiding citiznes. the one that protects criminals more than the cpos that have to deal with these low-lifes. The one that allows criminals to have no fear and taunt and disrespect cops because they know our laws permit it.

we need to give cops more flexibility to strike some fear in these bastards. and call me crazy, but i think giving cops more leeway to dish out some pain might even decrease crime a little bit. and they might get a little more respect in the streets. and to me, that would be a win-win.

Ok, your plan is to allow cops more freedom to beat people's asses.  Say that doesn't work.  What next?  How about some secret killing squads that go around and kill repeat offenders thus lessening the burden on the system? 

Going around with a fre pass to kick ass will win the police any respect.  Who respects a bully?  To get respect you have to give respect.

i didn't say give cops a "free pass". and i don't think anyone else on this board did either. so not sure where you're getting that from.

i did say "more leeway". and the reason i argue for more leeway is not to create a deterrant to crime (although i did point out that that could be an indirect benefit).

the reason they should be given more leeway is simply to allow them to do their jobs more effectively. and i am specifically talking about when people are resisting arrest.

it's funny, you are quick to criticize a tough cop by calling them bullies.....how about the low-life criminals that disrespect authority figures and resist arrest and fight back.....don't you consider them bullies?

The don't allow that because they know that abuse of power will take place. That is what is supposed to set us aside from other countries is our law system.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Police don't act as jury and punisher.

Excessive force should not be used except in etreme cases.

I saw an interview with this man and he asked "How was I resisting arrest or fighting back after being sucker punched from behind?"

He had a point. They hit him in the back of the head and then took him down and continued to beat him. I saw, at no point, where he was fighting with these men, or resisting arrest.

Standing facing the wall and turning back (if they had already told him he was under arrest) could be considered resisting arrest without violence. But that in NO WAY would constitute any type of physcial beat down. Not supposed to in this country anyway.

Sandman, so it's OK for the police to act out of control and to bully people because that's what the real criminals do?  Police are supposed to uphold a standard of law with procedures that govern this so abuses won't happen and you want to compare their actions to those of criminals to justify police actions?   I am not sticking up for accused criminals in any way, the man in this incident was and is not a criminal, the police were.  So, may I ask, who is indeed sticking up for the criminals?

Julie Jacks from Chattanooga Tn saw an escaped mental patient in his gown walkin down the street.

They had a APB out on him to pick him up if they saw him.


He didnt have a record, was unarmed, so Julie goes up and tries to be NICE and apprehend him friendly instead of doing what she was trained to do.


The guy wrestles her takes her gun out of her holster shoots and kills her.



If she had did the correct police procedure she'd be alive but because of left wing nutjobs like some of u on here, she tried to do things another way and it cost her her life.


U are trained that if someone breaks the law they go to jail and u get them to jail by any means necessary.

If they fight, u use whatever force to make the arrest.

I dont give a shit if it was a 100 year old woman, it doesnt take much to pull a trigger.


Police Officers risk their lives for u and they dont know u but they do anything that can be seen as somewhat questionable and people are ready to cut their throats.

I find this shit irritating


My brother is a cop and he was making a routine stop, when he got to the car he leaned in to get their license and they drove off dragging him down the highway

So those who criticize our soldiers, who criticize our police officers I tell u this

stay in your safe homes and criticize all u want

but if someone is breaking into your home Dont call the cops

If someone robs u, dont call the cops

Bad analogy.

First of all my family is military and I had an uncle who was a police officer on the northwest coast.

I still have family in government, and my wife is ex military, as is her father, and my father. I was born on a military base in Virginia.

So give that shit a rest already.

Second is that you ignore that the police were arrested and charged. Why was that D?

That is because what those police did was against regulation. We have laws in this country and the LEOs have to abide be them too. Don't like that? Then maybe you should go to another country and see how brutal those cops can be. When it's the wild west like that corruption reigns supreme.

Third, not once have I attacked our military. Nor has anybody else on this forum. In fact I defend them on a daily basis. Because I believe that they were used by our Prez for illegal and immoral reasons NOT related to defending this country.

Fourth and foremost if you are going to call anybody a "nut job" you had better have your goddamn facts straight. Don't come around telling me what I think and what I write, when it is false. Don't you ignore facts, laws,  adn rules that our society is supposed to abide by, including our LEOs, to call me a nutjob. Better look in the mirror and see if you are being honest first.

what the fuck does "act out of control" mean? that's kind of vague.

i think everyone has stated that those cops should be reprimanded for disobeying their protocals.

so everyone read this carefully.....those protocals SHOULD be changed. that's the argument i am making.

cops shouldn't have to tip toe around like pansies when they are making an arrest.

and as i've said before, i talking specifically about criminals who RESIST ARREST. when a criminal threatens the safety of a policeman, they should be able to use significant force to get control of that criminal.

why doesn't anyone care about protecting those whose job it is to protect us???

hilarious article from the Philly Daily News.

Don't like cops, till they need 'em

Anarchist-run Wooden Shoe Books (508 S. 5th) has been a place where one could buy pro-Mumia Abu Jamal shirts and other anti-police merchandise.

But when the store was held up on the afternoon of Oct. 7 by a man who claimed he had a gun, guess who was called to help?

According to the Philadelphia Police Department's report, an assailant flashed a bulge in his belt to a female clerk and demanded the store's money. She gave him about $200 in cash, and $40 worth of SEPTA tokens.

When we asked about the irony of an anti-police organization calling the cops when it's robbed, James Generic, a member of the volunteer collective that operates the not-for-profit bookstore, said, "It was the individual who was staffing when the storefront was robbed who called the police, since she was extremely shaken up and it was not the organization's decision... though we will support her in any way we can."

It's unlikely the store will press charges or pursue any further police action about the robbery.

Bah...nobody is saying all cops are bad.

These cops went over the line. Pure and simple.

The man wasn't resisting arrest in a violent fashion at all. He was just standing there and they beat his ass.

Quit trying to change it all around.

Give it up already. We all admit (except for D) that these guys should be punished.

Why would they beat someone who was just standing there? That doesn't make any sense.

nor does it make any sense that it took 3 trained policemen using violence to apprehend an unarmed 64 yr old...

how many people from this forum could hold down a 64 yr old all by themselves?

Some probably could and other would probable have their ass hand to them trying.



I think it's pretty funny that some are already saying these guys are guilty but isn't Innocent to proven guilty?


And I have yet to see were they have been found guilty in a court of law .



I'm not say that what they did was right  .And  truthfully I haven't read everything about this yet.

Did you not see the video? It is posted in this thread.

The man was standing against the wall, turned around a bit, and the let loose on him.

There really isn't much to defend.

AP Photo guy was slammed down by them, two relief workers were put in handcuffs when they cried foul....They are testifying with the federal agents now.

excellent point.

none of us were there, and no one truly has an appreciation for what's going on down there.

i think cops need to use different sets of protocals depending on the circumstances. for example, a random arrest should be handled carefully, but an arrest in the middle of near riots should be handled more aggressively.

it's a sad day when america gives up the innocent until proven guilty approach.

so, what do you think happened that wasnt caught on the video?...

well for one he certainly was no jackie chan, he threw no punches, i saw no gun, i heard no shots

i saw no other people there, certainly no other person was involved, he didnt resist being arrested

come on dude, supply us with something that may have happened that would merit that beating




I wonder where you were when we were discussing Guantanamo Bay

yo dude - your post makes no sense. read my fucking posts - i've said several times these cops should be reprimanded by their department.

not sure what your point is about Guantanamo Bay. but don't make baseless assumptions  about my beliefs.

on the first point, you say the cops should be reprimanded yet you say you believe in "innocent until proven guilty"...since that obviously doesnt make much sense i thought i would point out to you some facts about the video and that there is plenty of evidence to support guilt...which by my reckoning is something you have already observed

on the second point, the US law system obviously gave up its "innocent until proven guilty" 2 years ago since guantanamo prisoners are readily accepted as being guilty without proof...as i recall, in other threads werent you supporting the fact that people were being detained in guantanamo without proof of guilt? if so, then why should the "innocent until proven guilty" matter to you now?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/17/national/main563855.shtml

Great point.

I don't agree with violence, nor do I support cops using unnecessary force on civilians. You know that. I just think it's important to ask questions and investigate a situation, instead of taking it at face value. I have not seen the video, and I wasn't there to see the incident and what lead up to it. I'm just asking why three police officers would approach someone and start beating him up for no reason. If they did it to be malicious, then they should be brought to justice.

The video is on this thread.

let me clarify....IMO, innocent until proven guilty is a court of law issue. not a real life issue. therefore, it is obvious the cops used too much force; therefore, their department should punish them (they should get a slap on the wrist IMO). now, if that loser brings a civil suit (like there's any chance of that NOT happening), then these cops are innocent until proven guilty.

war criminals are a completely different topic. completely different system as well. still, i've NEVER stated war criminals should not be afforded due process of law.

i guess you are forgetting that many people facing trial are held in prison for long periods of time BEFORE their innocence or guilt is determined in a courtroom.

You are forgeting that those people are being held without being charged.

Big difference.

Their charge is understood.  And I'm not sure that the rules for prisoners of call for them to be charged with anything anyway.  If so, if it would make you feel better, we could charge them with jaywalking with an ak47.  It's irrelevant really.

Anyway, who concerns themselves with the treatment of suspected terrorist or suspected terrorist allies or former members of the Taliban?  If you think the majority of people in this country (not the vocal liberal majority but the real middle America majority) care about the treatment of prisoners in gitmo after seeing the beheadings of prisoners by Al Quada, then you are reading to much liberal media.   I don't know a single American that would waste 4 seconds caring about such a thing.

You are free to start with the "well we need to be better than them" speech, but keeping them alive and feed in gitmo is better than beheading them is treating them better IMO.


As for the cops, they look guilty for sure.  If they are proven guilty in a court of law, they should be charge to the fullest extent.

like i said, it's a completely different system. and i don't claim to be an expert on all the differences. but there are MAJOR differences. and to my knowledge, plenty of americans that have not followed the law have been investigated and prosecuted. as well they should.

well for example...beating up an innocent man is not a real life issue? and spending years in jail for no reason is acceptable to you? i speak from a solid moral POV where guilt is decided by the same method no matter what crime has been committed...you find that 2 methods (innocent until proven guilty, and guilty until proven innocent) in the same system are acceptable...i do not...

you're changing my words around, AND putting words into my mouth.

NEVER DID I SAY...."beating up an innocent man is not a real life issue".

NOR DID I SAY that both methods are acceptable in the same "system".

it's a waste of time arguing with someone who does this.

Many people were released without being charged after being held for months upon months.

It's irrelevant that somebody is held by the USA (who claims a fair justice system) without being charged? Huh?

 I prefer to follow the laws we set, not use them only when we feel like it. If you are going to arrest somebody and take them in, you must charge them and give them a trial. Not arrest them like some secret police, not charge them, not allow them a lawyer and beat them. Sorry, but while you obviously support that (since they are all "towelheads" to you anyway) I do not. And it goes directly what the America stands for.

Hlding people in prison with out being charge is wrong no doubt.

I remeber a few years ago a hacker named Kevin Mitchnik"I think that was his last name" was held for like 1 to 2 years without being formely charged .All because they thought he could launch nucs by using a telophone. so I believe he wasn't even alowed to us one.

amusing, lame reply indeed