Here Today... Gone To Hell!

My question is if axl did ever reach out to any of the old group and in my opinion out of all the old guys i think izzy would be most likely just cuz of there longer history together do u think we would actually hear about it or would it be something that would probably be kept under wraps considering the new bandmates and maybe axl not wanting to have any of the current members to jump ship before an album is out and then have more delays maybe it sounds crazy on my part but i have this feeling like if axl did speak with any of the old group we wouldnt know about it atleast until CD has come out and these sessions are completed.

? , .

Yes.

Axl will never be the one to reach out; his pride and his ego will get in the way of that

mrsrose, I completely agree with that. If a reunion EVER happens, it will be the old guys approaching Axl about it. I'm sure they would have to beg Axl and apologize for past mistakes. Then we MIGHT see a reunion.

If CD is a failure or is never finished I could see a promoter offering the original line up alot of money to get back together in a few years.

It will happen eventually. It might be 10 years from now, but money talks and the longer CD stays in the 'finishing stages' the more likely it will become that the guys in the new band (well, minus Dizzy who knows that he is nothing without Axl) will get tired of waiting.

and that wont happen because in their minds (and many fans' minds), they didn't make any mistakes, so they shouldnt beg.



promoters are already willing to pay huge sums of money for the original five to reunite, they have been since the breakup.? duff and slash have both said so.

a reunion wont ever happen though, regardless of who is right or wrong.? theyve gone too far their separate ways.

I disagree.  I believe he would avoid this for the sake of protecting himself. 

"3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea." - Axl gnronline statement 8/12/02.

Axl Speaks regarding former GN'R members - 11/27/2002 Pepsi Arena Albany, NY, United States


"Now I was uh, perusing. I was reading all about my integrity, cause that's what I'm known for I guess---selling out my integrity. That's why I'm here with you now, cause I don't give a fuck I guess. Yeah, that's why we worked real hard at this, that's why these guys worked real hard at being in a band that they can get abuse for, because "they're the guys in the way of getting the old band back together." That's horseshit. I'm not trying to bum anybody out, but, you know, I was thinking about it. I'm pretty blunt so people get real pissed. And I haven't done a lot of talking on this tour. Ill shut up real soon don't worry. Y'know, I tried acting nice and that just ends up fucking me right up the ass.

in the same 'rant' regarding fan's claims that "The other guys, they have gotten over it and they're his friend now and they're willing to be his friend and he just needs to grow up." 
Axl's reply:
" I'm sorry. I'm a little bit more blunt. I mean Slash may sound like a De La Hoya, but he's the fuckin Vargas. That's just how it is. And just because he's got a bunch of guys agreeing doesn't mean shit. The truth is that they're a bunch of bad cops and I'm the fuckin Serpico and they can 'suck my dick'!

IMO he's hurt.... and anyone with a basic understanding of how human emotions work knows that is the root of anger... the anger you hear expressed in his above rant.

Regardless of what anyone outside of the situation thinks or assumes - Axl has answered this age old question outright (in his words bluntly).  I believe they have been a hinderance to his moving on with Guns N' Roses.. with his life's work.  Remember what he said at RIRIII?  "Regardless of what you have heard or read, people worked very hard, meaning my former friends, to do everything they could so that I could not be here today. I say f*ck that. I am as hurt and dissapointed as you..."

The lawsuit, I believe, was in the works and expected for some time.  There were legal wranglings behind the scenes long before which we would not be aware of.  Why would he reach out?  He's never denited their musical talents  I do believe he knows what they would be capable of together - but realizes that their potential could never be reached  because what he felt was a short-sightedness of vision and a lack of effort on Slash' part.  He's referred to this in the Burning Hills statement (the 'dive in and find the monkey' comment), and the gnronline statement (you can only do so many pullups).  So even though he's aware of the great potential, he feels it could not be reached with Slash.

In the gnronline statement he said that Slash left because Slash wanted control... and 'damn skippy' yes he himself wanted control.  In the RS interview, in the vein of a ship can't have 2 captains, he explained that there could not be two drivers in one car... and reiterated that he was always the one held responsible and basically that he would have to be the one in control.  Slash not being willing or feeling able to continue under this condition, left.  And for at least this, Axl was dissapointed and hurt. 

Would this ever change?  Would Slash ever feel able or be willing to create anything with Axl with Axl being the one in control?  Slash has in the past said that he would be willing to re-unite.  But has he ever meant that he would work with Axl being the one in control?  I don't think so.  He has made statements such as "if Axl got his head together..." being the only condition under which he would consider it.  Is Slash a bad guy for wanting to be in creative control or for not wanting to be in a band where he is not the one in control?  No.  Its a personal decision and one he made when he decided to stop working with Axl and left Guns N' Roses.  Of course, even if that be his right as a musician, one could understand Axl's feeling dissapointed, hurt, and angry that Slash made that decision.

Further adding to this would be Slash's reaction/ replies regarding the breakup in various public statements and comments in which he's painted Axl as the 'only one to blame' for the breakup. 

Its obvious with common sense to see that with both Axl and Slash wanting control of GN'R that neither is to blame fully and both are to blame equally if it's a given that either was as equally suited to be in control as the other. 

However, IMO, one who has more creative ambition and vision would be preferable as the captain than one who wanted to keep doing what they been doing since they were fifteen years old...  I'd rather someone who wanted to continue to creatively progress.

It's known that Slash objected to implementing an 'industrial sound'...   
Read what Slash said in the Metal Edge Interview "The inside story of Velvet Revolver" Dec. '04 (link: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=133:

"ME: There have been so many bands that people have thought would ?bring back rock? over the past few years, and now the same is being said about Velvet Revolver. Do you feel that responsibility, knowing how neutered the music industry is right now?

S: How neutered the music industry is is probably one of the reasons we exist today in the first place. It was just getting to be really tough, but for me, I never really changed throughout the years. I refused to conform to any of the industry?s standards, and when anybody tells me what I should or shouldn?t do, ever since I was fifteen and played guitar, I?ve learned to not listen...."

Funny thing is in the writing and recording process of AFD Axl has spoke about all various muscial influences he drew on. 
Mike Clink speaking about AFD sessions:  (great article btw. link: http://www.gunnertemple.com/index.php?act=39&code=12&view=40 (http://www.gunnertemple.com/index.php?act=39&code=12&view=40))

"How would you describe the sound they were after?

They wanted it to be raw, and they enjoyed the interplay of two guitarists, which is something that I've always loved. They would also talk about the records they liked, especially Axl. Axl came to rehearsals with cassettes--he listened to music constantly, and one of the bands he loved was Metallica. And Izzy was a Dixie Dregs guy. Slash was a Rolling Stones guy. Duff was a Misfits-style punk guy. and Steven enjoyed all of the above."

A quote from Axl included in the Rolling Stone's 50th anniversary of Rock issue demonstrates this:

(link: http://heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1070)

"G n? R survived on the kindness of strangers (even after deciding to sign with Geffen Records, the band met with A&R execs from other labels just for the free meals) and starting in the summer of ?86 labored seriously on Appetite. ?In one year I spent over $1,300 on cassettes,? Rose told ROLLING STONE, ?everything from Slayer to Wham!, to listen to production, vocals, melodies, this and that.? For the recording of ?Sweet Child o? Mine,? he noted, ?I went out and got some old Lynyrd Skynyrd tapes to make sure that we?d got that down-home, heartfelt feeling.?"

So Axl listened to Metallica and Skynard and "everything from Slayer to Wham" and tapped into them for various influences - yet AFD doesn't sound like an imitation of anyone does it?  Nor would the post UYI GN'R album be NIN.

No more than AFD was Metallica or Skynard or Slayer or Wham or ELO (another band Axl has mentioned listening to and garnering from.)

One in creating music has huge vision and the other just wants to jam / rock out.  The thing is IMO only one of these visions would have excluded the other.*sigh*

sorry for the long post - but what the hell...!  There is just so much that answers the eternally asked question about Axl and Slash's differences... why the split... And about whether they could/would work together again. 

I think Axl is the most creative and innovative guy, but he will always be asked to reunite with Slash. That's their destiny.
They are like Jagger/Richards.

Eva, I think Axl was hurt; but so was Slash.  Much as I love Axl, I understand why Izzy, Slash, & Duff all left.  Thing is, Axl was the one being unreasonable to begin with.  But even if he WANTED to play with the old guys again, he will never admit it.  For him, that would be admitting defeat.

Oh yeah Slash was hurt too (and still is). Axl likes to "demonize" Slash, but Slash loves this band too! The man would do ANYTHING to return in GN'R. He has this band in his blood, in his soul. Guns N' Roses is also his baby. Axl and Slash were the mother and the father of Guns N' Roses. Duff, Izzy and Steeven/matt were the brothers. It's already hard when you loose a brother, but when you loose a parent, it is almost impossible to continue. Things will never be the same without Slash. A parent can't be "replaced".

Well i wasnt even referring to a reunion i was just talkin about the possibility that they would just communicate and talk like for instance what happend with Axl & Gilby Clarke a couple years ago when he joined gilby for a couple songs wherever that took place.  I mean everyone says oh Axl wont go back to the old guys but is it impossible to think that he could approach them if an oppurtunity arose such as the gilby situation.  I mean personally speaking id love to see Axl & Izzy writing songs n making music to me they were the next Mick & Keith and being they do have a history preceding even GnR that that is more likely to happen then Axl speaking with the other guys who seem to wanna be more out there in the public eye making comments about who and who didnt write the songs for GnR Izzy is much more quiet which i like.

I forgot what year, maybe late 90's, 2000 but Izzy sent Axl some songs, which Axl liked;  Axl replied by having his lawyers send Izzy papers to sign over the rights to the songs to him only. 

A reply from the original Axl4Prez :)

Old GNR is done, gone, over.  There will be no reaching out.  There will be no Dr. Phil special where the word "closure" is used 100 times in 30 minutes.  For god's sake, Axl didn't want Slash in the same building he was performing in!  My advice for all who secretly pine for the reunion...don't hold your breath.  Slash and Duff can do their thang.  They'll do 2 or 3 more records (if that) as VR fizzles into oblivion...and Izzy will be enjoying his normal non-touring life.  Axl will get something new going at some point in the next 5 years...probably after VR has come and gone. 

-The original Axl4Prez...2004  :)

I dont think Axl likes the competition with VR so, who knows when his record will come out. I wouldnt think anytime soon.

Eva, I really loved that post.  I normally dont like reading posts on the ever long debate between Axl and the other band mates because it gets me really mad and defensive over Axl, but I read your entire post and I really liked it a lot.

 :)

That was one very long sentence! Periods start now!

This is our "When are The Beatles gonna get back together?" for our generation.

I disagree with the notion that a band has to have only one "captain".  There have been plenty of bands that have had two captains.  You don't need just one guy calling all the shots.  I think that's what Axl wanted.  I think Slash was in favor of a more Jagger/Richards, Tyler/Perry sort of deal.  In both the Stones and Aerosmith there were two main creative minds.  In GN'R there was 3...Izzy being a main creative mind as well.  I don't think for a second Slash wanted complete control of the band.  If he did why would VR ever have hired Scott Weiland as their frontman, and allow him to basically write all the lyrics on Contraband?  Scott is a very Axl-like frontman.  He's outspoken, he draws attention to himself, and definitely not a guy who would let Slash call all the shots.  Axl is definitely more of a control freak than Slash.  Of course Slash has an ego...a pretty big one too, but not nearly on the level of Axl's.  Axl wanted to change the direction of the band totally, and that's where Slash drew the line.  He was no longer Joe Perry to Axl's Steven Tyler, he was more like Chris Poland to Axl's Dave Mustaine.  The only difference is Mustaine can deliver and backup his control freak way of doing things...Axl, so far, has not.

Who's at fault really shouldn't matter.? They should reunite for the fans.? I have said before that the New GNR nor VR will never top the original Guns N' Roses.? That is why Chinese Democracy hasn't been released, and that is why VR isn't a household name (even though I give Contraband a thumbs up).

The best thing that could happen to music would be for the Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven to so into a studio for a month and produce an album.? Old school style like Appetite.? No horns, no background singers, no reggae, no Dizzy Reed.? Just the original band.? That would kick ass, and since they are all still alive, the only thing holding this back is stupidity and senseless pride.

Its not easy for rock millionaires to overcome their pride.

Also they aren`t the same people they were in 1987. They`ve gone off into completely different directions creatively.

It would be utterly shocking to see Axl ever reach out them, I don't think it's ever going to happen.  Even if they reached out to him, I still think he wouldn't do it.  I hate to be a downer but by everything I have read about the guy once your out, your out.