Here Today... Gone To Hell!

After the VMAs Axl said in regards to the release of Chinese Democracy "I wouldn't say soon, but it will come out".  Clearly the album was a long way from being finished at the time the tour launched.  The tour was poorly promoted and was titled after an album that didn't even have a tenative release date.  Looking back it was a very bizarre and illogical tour, I was wondering what people thought about it.  The only explanation I can think of is that Axl sensed the band was becoming restless and felt that the tour would somehow appease them as well as give them some paydays for their work on the album.  Any other reasons as to why it even happened?  Generally big time bands only do two types of tours, to promote an album that is about to be released or is release, or reunion types of tours where the band is no longer making albums regularly but still have a large fanbase that will come see them perform.  This tour was neither. 

I think u make some good points, i do have wondered - he does make it clear the album is a long way off....so why tour? Test the water?

I think the answer must be Axl is just nuts, i have tried to place some logic behind what he does but i'm at a loss.

I have ?my thougths but am so tired of saying it..

It was testing the waters/get out of the studio/stretch my legs tour.. A break from the studio so the guys could have a good time and see fan's reactions, & get the word out..

I believe thiongs were supposed to happen afterwards but never panned out..

dunno, i'm sure ppbee or some mods will paste a axl intreview for you where he says the purpose of d tour,
Funny tourtitle though ::)

If Axl did in fact explain the tour I'd like to hear it.  The tour ended disastrously and the band maintains it could have continued but it got shut down by Clear Channel for reasons that have yet to be explained, although one could guess that Axl's no shows at several concerts had a lot to do with the cancellation.

ops, i fucked up ;D

Slowly recapulatin, (did anyone notice that?) :-X

the modify feature... fun ;)

bingo...your now making sense

I swear to god that I emailed the promoter right after this happened, I was so angry how it ended after loving the msg show .. I never saved the email but the person told me they were canceling their tour buses and hotel reservations before the philly show and were not going to complete the tour.. I'm sure it was just some asshole from cc being stupid or covering their ass..
I have read from tommy that axl had the flu, but he was perfect in sound the night before as I witnessed him at msg up close.. I had read about a party with axl getting turned down do to a not wanting to take his fur coat off.. I've heard he was watching basketball instead of performing.. I have no clue what to believ, but I definetly think there is more to it then a flu, you can't have a riot three weeks earlier to only miss a show again (I know canada wasn't axl's fault but the results is no different) I think even if he was feeling sick he would have canceled the show really early before the fans gathered and became drunk and upset.. SItting through mix master and CKY can do that..

Hopefully one day we'll get the real asnwer, I've even heard (read by fans) that the money contract was in negotiation during the tour..

Regardless it was a huge let down to everyone.. Even if they had to go back adn record a little at least we would have had a tour that was a success.. The whole dealing with it was messy..

I had my doubts later why the vmas would flash "chinese Democracy" in lights during their closing of the show, then sell tons of CD stuff and name the tour CHinese d when they didn't have an album finished ready to go..

It's the past, just he lack of real info since is what is hurting the fans,...

I did it just for you, I have no problems with you I just didn't feel like arguing and figured I'd try your way.. :peace:

"These shows are important to us and for better or worse we'll be there."

And people say I should have expected a no-show in Philadelphia? ?WTF?

If I'm not mistaken there are still legal matters being sorted out between the band and Clear Channel and neither side is allowed to make public statements about it.? Certainly would be interesting to hear the reason for the tour being cancelled but it appears we'll have to wait.?

I know this is  old news but for some reason earlier today I was just thinking about all of this and it struck me as odd, the whole thing.? Good to hear some others offering their opinion on all of this.

WHywould anyone say that?? Axl was in tip top shape at msg, damn I was up close on teh floor, there was no reason for anyone to say that.. The man eve said he needed that, he seemed very at ease and happy.. He looked like he was finally comfortable and ready to kick ass the rest of the tour..

I sympathise to anyone that got screwed on dec 6th regardless of who was at fault

02 radio stuff:
Axl: "So there was a lot of challenges in bringing that together, but now everyone's pretty excited. Everyone got pretty excited doing the little mini-tour, and that brought us together more as an actualy band rather than a studio band, where everyone is kind of working separetely maybe even on the same songs. In little clusters here and there, but it's not the same thing as actualy being a stage and road band.

Ditch: You've really, you've... It sounds like really nurtured relationships with these guys, and the new disc "Chinese Democracy". Umm, do you have any idea when the fruits of those labours will come to harvest?

Axl: Uhh, sometime during the next year." ? ?:yes: uh NOT :hihi:

Or better, check the articles on this page, lots of intrestin stuff, I think there is a long audio interview with axl where he talks about this online now on mygnr.com (old 02 interview)

I`m sure part of the reason was to get the band out of the studio and be "a band" on stage for a tour and not a 1 show thing.

Also, Axl probrally wanted to let the mainstream know he was still alive and had a new band. Up untill then no one but the hardcore Axl/GNR fans knew what Axl was up to.

From the press release:

"These shows are important to us and for better or worse we'll be there. For those who've had my back and are down by us with even a modicum of understanding we hope to give you our best, and look forward to seeing you on this little intro jaunt."

---

Full information on the ?Chinese Democracy? World Tour dates is as follows:

AUGUST
Wednesday 14 ? Hong Kong Exhibition Hall
Saturday 17 - Japan Tokyo Chiba Marine Stadium, Summer Sonic festival
Sunday 18 - Japan Osaka WTC Open-air Stadium, Summer Sonic festival
Friday 23 - England Leeds Festival
Saturday 24 - Belgium Pukkelpop Festival
Monday 26 - England London Docklands Arena


I don't see Philadelphia mentioned there.

For the last time, he was talking about the August tour when he said that.


/jarmo

I kind of agree, it';s areal shame thought that the album wasn't ready.. How many bands get to close the vmas when making a comeback only to lose that publicity of a lifetime.. I don't think anyone would have ever thought it would have ended up this way, I'm sure all of us thougth during the tour we were going to have something soon..

I have 2 feelings on this matter, one I expressed and share the views of youngguner, ..

The second is why drag out a CHINESE DEMOCRACY TOUR when you have more recording to do.. I would have rather them take the few extra months and finished the album instead of waisting time on the tour.. The p[lanned a release, a video/single and then promoted a bigger tour and did it right when everything was complete..

GNr is not an ordinary band. They have and always will do whatver they wnat and how they want.

I agree with some of what you said. I have said a zillion times that the tour was pointless and if they wrere gonna do soemthing like that without an album out just do a quick major city tour.

Your questions are being answered by the bands actions. we agree that the band wanted to get out on tour and just jam. Maybe they decided not to wait because maybe, just maybe, they new it wasnt going to be ready{for whatver reason} for awhile. Have you thought of that yet?

I have thought about it, I just can't imagine that being they did that tour for cd that it could be so much recording left, something had to have gone wrong..

I know it's gnr and they can do whatever they want with the vmas, but they had to have a plan and some established material near completion, otherwise the whole entire thing was not thought out well, and frankly it was pointless.. All that 2002 vmas,cd tour has been forgotten by the average joe so to me it was a waste for the best interest of the band

The rio 4 statement was march, the band planned on playing lisboa in 2004, they were going to do more recording following the 2002 tour, BUT it ended shortly which should have given them a jump start to get more done..

As for BH's role in this mess who knows the extent of the damage, or how long this was going on, but also shame on axl or whoever monitors these sessions becuase someone should have recognized these problems early and got to the bottom of it.. The tour ended dec 5 2002, rio 4 release was last day or so of march 2004, the thing is what happened for 18 months??

um, reason for the cancellation?  ticket sales?  many old threads with some estimated numbers said that cc was barely breaking even or even losing money show to show, with the exception of the sell outs.  other artists whos sales are less than half of a venue are often cancelled mid tour, it happens.  the US is clearly not a friendly market to old names.  the UK and the rest of europe and the world thrive on gnr and older bands.  the US is buying more tickets to the latest american idol artist than a proven classic like axl.

Holy fuck, we are REALLY scrapped for new gnr news :o

- the tour was poorely promoted, I agree, definitely.
- going on tour without an album is a terrible mistake.

To get the band on the road.  Axl was going through a midlife crisis and decided he did want to be seen by the general public.  When he gets his act together and the music is done in his mind we MIGHT see GN'R come back out again.  If not that might be the last tour we'll see for a while.

In my opinion, it was just to get out of the studio and let the public know that Axl hasn't become a fat, bald new-age guru. There was no grandiose plan about releasing the album any sooner, depending on how the tour went. Who knows...

Look at the above 3 shows, plus MSG and Toronto - it seems like most of the people on this board registered due to the success of these 5 shows.  So there was at least good thing coming from the failed 2002 tour.

I just cant reconcile the contradictions stated about the album during 2002.  Axl said something about the cover art and tracklisting being completed! But then he also said you wont see it soon...  I dont know what to make of that.

That Axl's quite a tinkerer

Maybe the tour caused him to want to tinker with an (apparent) finished product.  Did being out & about on tour, instead of holed up in his mansion, inspire him to do some tinkering?

This topic has been pretty much covered.  After the Vma's, any hope for CD diminished. Axl clearly said that it would not be anytime soon. In lieu of that, the tour seemed to be a catalyst for the band to generate some chemistry and propel their subsequent recording. From what I understand, CD was being created in long jam sessions after which pieces were isolated and worked on independently by each player. I think the tour was meant to gel the players so that when they went back to work, the lightning of MSG or Toronto would move the recording new directions. Remember these guys had only done a few shows together before the US blowout. Pretty remarkable.

Axl 2001:

'See you next summer with a bunch of new songs'

I've come to the conclusion that the tour was basically a way to make some money and it didn't go as planned. Things started out on a bad note and that was that...I mean if you were "on the fence" about getting a 65.00 dollar ticket for the new GNR, Vancouver (the very first gig) certainly wouldn't have had one pulling out their wallet...know what I mean?

anyone ready for round 3? :yes:

To promote the band (not the album) and show that this band can play the fuck out the old songs!   :P

I can't imagine anyone being on the fence in regards to seeing a band they love or axl for the first time live in the states since 1993.. My floor seat was 75 dollars plus about twenty beers an other junk I bought.. I've spent like no money on gnr(End of days soundtrack, live era) for years n years so to spend ?a few bucks for one show was no big deal, the thought never crossed my mind.. I would have payed a hundred per ticket..

The tour itself was fucked up and everything was ran piss poor, but for me the money had zero factor..

I agree with most of your reasons for this tour (get out of the studio, gel as a road band, quick bucks, etc.) but above all I believe this tour WAS meant as a teaser to a forthcoming full blown tour for Chinese Democracy. I also think that tour was supposed to come about the following summer at some point, but many, MANY things seemed to go downhill from the point of the CD tour cancellation. It's a shame because of the momentum they had just started to gain (the VMAs, tour, a few interviews, etc.) but SHIT happens and unfortunately we, the fans, caught most of it.

The year following seemed to be in chaos as well with the seemingly sudden departure of Buckethead. Personally, I really enjoyed his playing at MSG, but if what Tommy says is true and BH NOT being around anymore is a good thing, than I'd rather it go in that direction. I really hope their chemistry as a band has gelled more because of BH's departure.

So, that brings us to late 2004, solo tours, solo albums, and still no word from Axl. Honestly, though, this summer ('05) is only two years off from when I believe they were ready to release CD and tour on it. I think with all the examples I've listed above, Axl & Co. needed to fully REBOOT the GN'R machine. They needed to give it some time as well. As they weren't yet ready to push ahead full throttle, they needed to go the other route and let time heal some of these fresh wounds before it turned fatal for the band.

All in all (long winded, I know) I think we WILL see a new album of new material from our favorite Gunners by the spring/summer 2005...and if I had to be specific, I think the February rumors just might turn out in our favor!

"I can't imagine anyone being on the fence in regards to seeing a band they love or axl for the first time live in the states since 1993..."

The 2002 incarnation of GNR was not the same configuration as 1993--the band "I love" is no more...get it?
If you're not an Axl worshipper\lover (which I'm not and never was, even from back in the day) then you do have to think about well, gee do I really want to see this new version of GNR...all I'm saying is if you were thinking of checking out the new version, Vancouver would have made me spend my money else where...I'm happy you got to see 'em...though : ok: sounds like you  had a blast : ok:

Well of course this isn't "GNR" like we knew, but most people here are just going to see axl, he could have hand picked any idiots to play and it wouldn't matter one way or the other.. I'm definetly not a worshipper like some crazy unhealthy people on the board, but the money it costed me was less then my old average bar tab, so it was no big deal.. I also wanted to catch him before he vanished.. Lucky I caught him the day before he did.. He's similar to marlon Brando, recluse who pops out every so many years then goes back into hiding never to be heard from..

I don't know about you, but I heard from Axl this year, a few months ago.

What did he tell you?

Shhhhhsh! estranged.1098, you big mouth. He said that was between us.




Seriously, what is that? You can always IM me if confidential.  ;)

estranged.1098 is probably talking about the letter we got concerning GNR not going to RIR

It was more than several months ago. Well it?s GNR time.

Oh the big few months ago, it was only said in march.. :D

i wanna know :drool:

bingo!

Yes but nothing has been said since... March closing in on mid november....

I really don't care if it was March 2004 or 2000. Axl said that we'll hear from him when the album is done and I guess I'm happy enough with that. Don't need him creating a diary to keep us "updated".

I know, it was just he said the recording would be taken to a new level, and hopefully would make a statement in a few months.. I know he said hopefully but that just means things might have not gone for the better.. I want to enjoy this soon.,..

yes "soon",  ;)

:-[  It could have been great!  Actually it was great in London!  Too bad it all didn't go as planned!

I love the london docklands gig, for whatever purpose... i digged it

Absolutley!!! I was at that show, it was the first time I had seen the new band and my first GnR gig since Milton Keynes in 93. The whole performance was absolutley fucking amazing. This is the reason why Im so positive about the future of GnR, cos the whole performance proved that GnR will bring back to the music world something that has been missing for a long time now!!!

lucky bastard, i still have the ticket they was supposed to do in norway 2001, never been at one :-\
he lost his pants at patience :rofl:

Yeh it was awesome! Shame you have never seen them live! However that should all change over the next few months when they tour!I have been lucky enough to see them 9 times would have been 10 but I had to sell my ticket to see them in Paris in 1992 cos I was skint!! I was stood at the Docklands show with a bloke from Israel and he had been to see the show at pukklepop (hope I have spelt that correctly!) and he said that was a fucking awesome show but that this one at Docklands was even better! He was right, Axl was on fire the whole night! He was really into it and seemed liked he was happy as fuck with the new band!!!!!

You too seem so.? :yes: and guess what? So am I.? :yes:

The 2002 tour had a good effect on us.

  :rant: as remarked below. ?;)

 :yes:
he even said they were going to go back to the studio after american leg of the tour

i think that legal issues that arose from the cancelled tour have to  settled to some degree before gnr can negotiate a favorable contract with another promoter for another us tour

we all say touring without an album is a mistake
but what about an album with no tour
the album needs to be backed by a tour
i don't think they are going to release an album without having the way cleared for a tour
and i don't think this is something they have been in a position for up to now
and perhaps for a while still
 
know what i'm saying
sure they can tour overseas
but as a business, I'm thinking, GN'R needs to set the record straight and be vindicated with regards to the legal issues that are ongoing regarding the 02 us tour, before they can proceed to 'do business' here again

there were TWO cancelled shows and two riots...
if GN'R is to be held legally liable for those then it would make any tour/promoter contract and insurance and all that kind of stuff very unfavorable towards them
GN'R is a business.... 
what has been going on since Dec 02?
I think they have been taking care of business
and when its all set straight they will resume

Give 'em hell Axl.  : ok:

being they were going to play rio 4 I think the legal issues might have been on the deline, and they must have had new songs because they weren't going to repeat with the same songs.. I wonder if just playing would have been better for the group in the way the 2002 tour helped them have a good time from the daily grind?

I can't wait to one day have about three hours to kill with silence and read the ultimate interview while listening to cd.. I want to know exactly what happened since kurt loder last talked to axl, I want to know when they finished the album ,I want to know what happened on dec 6th, etc etc etc..

not necessarily
legal issues here in the states with this countries hugest tour promoter and venue controller (Clear Channel) would not have affected plans to play RIR 4 Lisbon.  Not only because it is abroad but consider that Rock in Rio's promoter loves Axl and loves Gun N' Roses!  -- the BS here in the states wouldn't affect that - Roberto Medina wouldn't withdraw his invitation /slot for Axl/GN'R for anything

gnr booking agents, ticket buyers, bookers, hosting erc: true gamblers at heart ;)

isn't gnr banned from a radiostation beacuse of some trouble from 02?

That's very true but my point was they were most likely making progress with the album because they were playing a show for the first time.. They had to have something new, I doubt axl would have played those tired boots again..

Also everything they can't do is blamed on those suits, so it seemed like things might have been easing up.. WHy do rio to only go back into hiding again..? Things might have been on the decline simply because this is the first time since dec 6th that gnr as a group showed life..

Either way it's not a big deal, nothing happened and it's the same today as the 6th of december, the end of march, and the 23rd of november..

I happen to believe that the other rumoured European festival dates were to follow.


eh... well almost...
on dec 6 we did not know ANYTHING
and since the end of March we know that it IS coming  :yes:


Amen to that.
and I believe that it did also have a good effect on the band
It had to be really good for them to play and tour together...  that's when a band really becomes a band  : ok:

Ok, I know Axl doesnt follow any perceived norms but it was pretty random to tour out of the blue in 2002. No record to promote, not even a GH.

My theory is that most of CD was recorded after the 2002 tour and the shows were planned to let the band gel in a live setting before finishing off recording for CD?

Any other theories out there?

You basically hit it right on the head. Who knows how much of CD was done at the time but it I think Axl wanted to play the old songs for 1 last time{ for the most part} and also get the band out fo the sudio and see how it all works in a live setting.

Although the shows were good, in term of strategy it was a mistake: you don't go on tour without promoting anything. Plus, the band was totally different of what it used to be in the old days and people weren't interested. Only a great album supported by a massive promotion strategy (and I mean really massive - something ala Illusion erea) would bring people and save the band from a second split. I don't think the band would survive with a 2nd split. It would be the end. So CD is really important.

You're right, Madison Square Garden sold out in only 20 minutes. The Philly shows were sold out. Hartford was pretty much sold out, I was there. Boston and the London and Toronto shows were pretty packed. But, no one was interested.? ::)

I think the real reason why the shows that were only half filled or whatever were like that because people werent sure if Axl would actually show up cause of what happened with Vancouver, not because of lack of interest. And yes, the promotion was really bad too. I think I heard a radio ad once, and I never saw the tv comercial that was made.

yes but only in those big cities. The average crowd of the US 2002 tour was around 9.000 people (attendance) while most arenas were 15.000 people capacity +. Most of arenas were half and 2/3 full. Promoters were loosing money. Plus there were 2 riots. It became really complicated to continue the tour. But once again, it was a? problem of promotion.

It would seem that the negative reaction from the press to the 2002 tour may have had some bearing on the the continued delay of CD.  It's all speculation at the moment but it's not unreasonable to assume that if Axl was prepared to go on tour in 2002 he may have thought that CD was close to being finished.  The negative reviews and other problems that were associated with the tour may be the reason why we haven't gotten a release date.

That's one theory, the other is that he wanted to make some money to keep the record company off his back so that he could keep on working on CD without them hassling him for a release date.

Do I have to get AXL's quotes out all over again?!! Before the tour he said it was "time to wrap up the baby" and intimated that the record was done to www.gnronline.com, he showed the album cover to the crowd in Hong Kong, he told a crowd in Europe how many tracks would be on the record, he told a girl backstage at a show the name of the first single, and record stores had "Chinese Democracy" promos in their possession. The album was set to come out in December, 2002 at some point, folks.

What happened on that tour and overnight after the MSG show, no one can say. But by the time of the VMA's, Axl had decided that "soon" was not the word, and shortly thereafter descended back into his cocoon, to emerge only once since then with a letter informing us we'd hear news in a few months TWO YEARS AGO.

And I am generally an Axl apologist!

CD promos? never heard that - please elaborate?

There were a number of reports at that time that some record stores had received promotional material in the form of postcard-sized "Chinese Democracy" signs or display notices, if I remember correctly. I was pretty convinced at the time that several senior posters on this board had confirmed their existence, I suppose I could be wrong about that though.

The only postcard-sized promotional material I've come across is this :
http://gnrcollectibles.free.fr/html/misc/2002tourpostcard.htm

It's promotion for the tour. Is this what you're talking about?

as axl said in various shows( i think albany was one of them for sure) he just wanted to play something like a farewell to the old songs at that time and get the band out of the studio to have some fun. maybe it was also because chinesedemocracy was nearly finished, but imo axl planned to release it only until the day of the vmas. after that he wasn`t that positive about a release. it starts with " soon is not the word"...

well i think this was the main plan, but as some of you allready said it was strategically a mistake.

Yeah, I always thought it was strange how Axl seemed so positive about CD until the VMA's happened. I cant even imagine what changed his outlook. There was such a huge buzz after the VMA's, and he threw it all away. Could anyone have imagined that 3 years after the VMA's we would still be speculating about Chinese Democracy?

The VMA happened a thursday night I think. VMA's are always on Thursday. It was re-boadcasted the following weelk-end on MTV. The whole ceremony was a present for Axl and the new band, it was like "this ceremony is for you", Jimmy Falcon and the whole Staff at MTV were working for the GN'R apparition. we could thank MTV for that.? If Chinese Democracy were released the next Tuesday, it would have been the 1st week biggest sales ever. the buzz was massive during a couple of days. and then it was gone.

The 2002 tour wasn't a mistake, for the most part. Axl should have stuck to larger cities and Thursday-Saturday shows instead of doing these remote arenas in the middle of the week. Boise Idaho on a cold Tuesday night isn't too promotable.

But don't let the sour numbers dissuade you. For a band touring without an album to promote and almost no promotion backing the tour itself, GnR did very well in the big markets. Very well. If only Boise, Tacoma, Pittsburgh...and a few others weren't there to water down the numbers.

If the album was supposed to come out in 2002 why did Axl tell Loder that they would go back and do some more recording after the North American leg of the tour...which would have eneded in January 2003?

I truly believe the album was almost done and would have been out sometime in 2003/04. then the whole Bucket thing threw the plans off. And ever since..well...

Your right KV. They should have done a quick major city only tour. They would have sold out all the venues and owuld have had a more positive buzz in regards to attendance. DO that go back to the studio. Come back with CD....things could have been so much different.....

I pulled out the VMAs today. What a performance. They had the momentum. Then it went down the tubes.

FYI, that stuff was passed out to the street team for promotion.  I had (and might still have stashed somewhere) a bunch of it left.....

But I do know that at least one retailer had been told to have a circular ad promoing the release of CD in Dec of '02....but were then told, a bit later, to scrap it.

Because, by that point, they'd changed their minds (or, rather, I suspect HE had changed HIS mind) about the release.

My speculation, of course.

I think that, during the organization of the world tour, the plan was to release the album in Dec of '02..but by the time the US leg of the tour actually rolled around to happening, that plan had changed.  I also think CC was pissed about the change, because they had figured that GnR were going to have, based on what was said during the planning phase of the tour, a new album to tour behind.  I think that was the first thing that annoyed CC...no new album.  Then, the first riot happened, and they were even more steemed.  Then Philly happened and they just decided to pull the plug, fed up.

Again, all my speculation.

I think the 2002 tour was axl's idea of diving in and finding the monkey.  : ok:

Saul, I have a feeling that he didn't find it.  :D

"In the meantime rather than dwelling on the negative, Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further."

 ???

Booker, that statement still makes me laugh. Buckethead probably laughs so hard that his mask falls off from time to time. :D

yeah thats hilarious alright

That press statement is up there with the best of 'em alright

i think the OMG press release was possibly takes the cake though

I'm still trying to decifer that one. ???

yeah, its a bizarre one - he definitley sounds like a raving looney and lofty to boot

He does do a good job of building up the song in that one, though...

here it is

So here's the story behind this music
The chorus: OH MY GOD etc. deals with the societal repression of deep and often agonizing emotions - some of which may be willingly accepted for one reason or another - the appropriate expression of which (one that promotes a healing, release and a positive resolve) is often discouraged and many times denied. Emotionally the song contemplates several abstract perspectives drawing from personal expression as well as from the film (End Of Days) and its metaphors. The appropriate expression and vehicle for such emotions and concepts is not something taken for granted.

Musically the song was primarily written by Paul Huge over two years ago, with Dizzy Reed writing the musical hook of the chorus. Former member Duff McKagan as well as former employee Matt Sorum failed to see its potential and showed no interest in exploring, let alone recording the piece. When the demos were played for the new band, Josh, Tommy and Robin were as they say 'all over it.'

Once the opportunity was presented, the song was given priority in our recording process. As the verse, performance and lyrics were decided on, for us (that especially includes Interscope chairman Jimmy Iovine) the choice became obvious. We were more than pleased Mr. Roswell (the film's music supervisor) agreed! Our thanks to Arnold and all for the consideration - it is an association in which we have always felt honored.

Paul Huge, Gary Sunshine and Dave Navarro appear on the song as well as Robin Finck. Robin's part was written by Paul and extensively manipulated by our producer, Sean Beaven. Robin was not involved in the writing of the final recording though did participate in the arrangement. All lyrics were written by myself. Additional programming (jack boots, screeching tires, etc.) was by Stuart White.

The fight of good vs. evil, positive vs. negative, man against a seemingly undefeatable, undeterrable, unrevealed destiny, along with the personal and universal struggle to attain, maintain and responsibly manage freewill can be and often is frustrating to say the least. In America our country's constitutional right to freedom of expression gives us a better chance to fight for that expression than many in other countries enjoy. It can be a big gig, like kickin' the crap outta the devil!

Power to the people, peace out and blame Canada,

Axl

the tuesday after the VMA'S would have been a great idea.i still don't understand the whole touring with no cd.it didn't make sense.if only he released it soon after the VMA'S then it would have def been a top seller.even  new fans would have bought it.

Makes sense to me. It seems some North American gigs were apparently planned starting from September 2nd, the week following the VMA's. So far so good. Then, in early August, reports come in saying that gigs in Australia, Korea and Indonesia will take place between September 11th and 29th. On August 12th, two days before Hong Kong, Axl really started clearing the post-VMA plate, postponing all the said gigs. Tommy Pratama (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=486), the Indonesian promoter, said his gig ended up being slotted for Jan/Feb '03, following the rescheduled Australian leg of the tour. "Gunners had hoped to release the album in September but the record is now scheduled for November, according to Pratama."

Every time they rearranged the tour plan, they seemed to be heading back into the studio. At one point, Axl might've hoped pulling out a UYI, completing the record while on the road. In September, there was still a lot of buzz for a Christmas '02 release. And once again, on Nov. 24th, the day before a very much rumored unveiling of the first single (Catcher in the Rye), Dizzy says CD might come out during the summer of '03.

If all of this sounds kind of... mindboggling, I can wholeheartedly agree with Pilferk that CC must've been really pissed during the course of the North American tour. With an album in sight, they might've cut Axl more slack after Philly, but...
 

i found that pleasin to read.good letter.

 oho....very interesting. Hope this guy will not feature on any songs of the album. as a producer. Is he the guy behing the so called "industrial" mix of the songs? The production of "oh my god" was one of the weakest one I've ever heard.
if they want a good producer they should recall Mike Clink. That guy is a genius. Roy thomas Baker (queen) seems amazing too. Also who had produced U2 "archtung Baby"? because the whole production is sensational.

I always thought the "without giving away any details" part hilarious myself.  :hihi:

You're not gonna give away any details uncle axl?! But thats so unlike you!  :rofl:

Axl said that they would record after the 2002 tour. I dont think they ever anticipated a release during the tour.

"There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ?okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready."  Axl Rose, August 2002

Axl said that they would record after the 2002 tour. I dont think they ever anticipated a release during the tour.

If there was never any intention of having the record out during, or shortly after the tour then why was there so many hard feelings in Buckethead's regard to recording/rerecording from where they left off once the tour was cancelled.


That statement from Axl is almost shockingly similar to the one Tommy gave only a few months  ago where he mentions only a few loose ends being tied up (cover art, song selection, etc)

I think with respect to the new material and record  the band may or not have been ready to release following the tour... Axl (a) Took a huge loss to his ego and song writing abilities and as a result decided to shelve/scrap the majority of material that had been recorded so far (also causing Buckethead alienation), or may have as alot of reports have stipulated, simply and may still be going over what was recorded with a fine tooth-comb.
(b) Following the tour, Axl assembled the entire band back into the studio and recording was great until Buckethead quits also around the time the record company drops GnR from their payola. Axl is enraged but allows Finck and Fortus to promply finish the gap Buckethead left orAxl is so enraged Buckethead's material is shelved and - "This unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further." Robin and Richard will revolve off and on lead until the record is complete....