Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I'm not saying that we wouldn't like this band if it wasn't, but the name of the band does draw our attention.  It would probably be like "hey, i wonder how Axl's new band is doin on their album."  The frustration and demand for Chinese Democracy, in my opinion, wouldn't be as big of a deal.  Your thoughts?

I agree - i think it would be smarter for Axl becasue Gn'R the name has all the the baggage to do with the old band, simply calling it an Axl solo project would relive alot of the pressure on him as well as alot of the critisicm. To be honest im not really sure why he has kept the name.

i agree, why?

the cons outweigh the pros by a considerable margin IMO

I'd approach this with a much better feeling if he named it something other than GNR and I'm sure it would still be a success (provided CD is good mind)

Why not call the band Chinese Democracy? Just a thought, as it is well known now

Axl's Roses keeps a link with the past, but loses the GN'R baggage

If this was an Axl Rose solo it wouldn't interest me.
The chemistry thingy that occurs when the diverse individualities encounter with each other on music, which I hear on the music, is what attracts me to the band. :love:

About the band name, I wouldn't mind if it was Chinese Democrats or Guns n' Roses.
What's in a name? Whatever, Cool name please.

Because he wants to? 

I mean, he has ownership of the band name, why shouldn't he use it, if that's what he wants?

Maybe it's important to him, perhaps just as important to him to keep the name, as it is for some people to want him to drop the name and call it something else. 

Besides Axl started with Izzy the Guns N' Roses. People often say, it should be called Axl Rose solo, but should it really be called that way? The others left the band, they didn't broke up. Axl wanted Guns N' Roses to continue, the others abandoned the dream  :-\

thats fuckin' right n' dont let anyone ever fuckin' forget it!!!

If the dream was moving in a direction they didnt want to go or they were unhappy you cant really blame members for leaving. After all - it is unfair to ask members to stay in a band where there unhappy.

And as for giving up the name - i would have just thought Axl would have dumped the Gn'R name as a solo record would have got him more recgonition than one under the Gn'R - with the legacy still hanging overhead - at least in my opinion.

No, axl abondoned the dream by becoming a dictator and wanting everything his own way.
He alone killed GNR and to this very day is still digging the hole deeper for GNR by not doing anything after well over 10 years.
If he didnt use the name GNR then he could do what the fuck he likes and sing about fucking lawn mowers or whatever the fuck axl is into these days, but by using the GNR name he will fall flat on his face everytime.

He started the band, not the name -> Tracii Guns and Axl Rose did the name

I personally think that when Izzy left, he started "freaking out" with his best friend leaving him.  Dictator might be too strong a word...


I totally agree.  Axl's absence has tarnished the name, and it's not looking good for the future

I've never seen Axl fall on is face , I've seen him fall off stage. I think weather he calls it GNR or Axl Rose it shall be judged in the same manner.

Axl's desire to follow trends is what destroyed the band. Instead of sticking to what Guns did, or going in a brand new direction, Axl wanted to do a grunge record, and then wanted to do an industrial one when that got popular. That goal left us with nothing. So whenever Axl wants to blame someone for the demise, instead of blaming Izzy,Slash, or Duff, he should just look in the mirror. GNR had something special that each generation only sees once in a lifetime, and Axl threw it all away. Deep down, he knows this, and the wait continues.

I agree totally with this statement

Wrong. The others wanted GNR to continue. They just didn't want to follow Axl's dream. They wanted to stick with the Guns N Roses dream.

I would fallow Axl even if he dident use the GNR name! He have always been a musical inspiration to me! So Axl!  :beer:

Yeah, right. ::)
You know Slash wanted to do It's Five O' Clock Somewhere with Guns N' Roses, right? He wanted to be a fuckin ac/dc, he didn't want to move on...

 ?Seriously...changing the name would be the dumbest thing Axl could do. ?(yes, I know, you can enter your, "No, not releasing an album with new material in over 10 years is the dumbest thing Axl could do...oh yeah, that's what he's done. :( )

 ?I think there was a thread awhile back that asked for new names...no offense to everyone here, but there is no better name than Guns N' Roses. ?It represents everything "Velvet Revolver" tried to rip-off from GNR in a nut-shell. ?You've got the hard-rockin "Guns'" songs to go along with the "What's with the piano?" Roses' songs...and every so often the individual songs have that mix within. ?Gun is to Revolver as Roses are to Velvet. ?It's a nice formula that Weiland and the ex-Gunners utilized. ?That's just how I see it. ? : ok:

 ?BTW, not to beat a dead horse, but dammit, someone's got to say it. ?I'm glad the old band disintegrated. ?Look how god damn pathetic some of these bands got when they just went too long. ?Axl's a breath of fresh air. ?A god damn artist willing to take a fuckin' risk and evolve. ?If you honestly think Axl Rose was going to do a grunge or electronica album, you're a moron. ?Axl can sing. ?Can I imagine Axl incorporating different sounds into GNR's music? HELL F'IN YES! ?Do you think the fellows in the band were receptive to Axl's ideas? ?Umm, no. ?Can I imagine Axl may not have used the most effective tools of persuasion to get the old band to grasp his new vision? ?Umm, yes. ?Just sit back and relax, there will be a new Guns N' Roses album coming out at some point in the next 5 years. ?Do I see an imminent release date on the horizon? ?Hell fucking no! ?Half the young people I talk to think Axl is either dead or in an insane asylum. ?I am not making that up. ?The marketing machine will have to get rolling before the release...or Axl will be widely considered a failure (not by me) but by the press and mediocre sales...and I don't see Axl allowing that to happen. ?Until you see an interview with the reclusive one in Rolling Stone, don't hold your breath.

Sincerely,
Axl4Prez2004 ? :peace: ? ? ? ? ?

Its been stated several times by band members that he did want to do a grunge record. Its a known fact. Same thing with the industrial shit. And to the person who said 'Its Five O Clock Somewhere' would have been the next GNR record: Bullshit! That's one of Axl's lies. Slash took some of the music to Axl, and he didn't like it. Considering the fact that alot of the lyrics were written by the Snakepit singer, it couldn't be a GNR record! Its funny how you guys think Axl isn't to blame for the GNR trainwreck. I wish Axl had listened to Slayer and Megadeth instead of Nirvana and Pearl Jam. That would have been a much more interesting direction for the band to take, and the 'old' members might have stayed with GNR. We might have even got an album out of it.

I would have alot more respect for Axl if he chose not to call the new project GnR, but the name Guns n Roses spells sales, regardless if the new record is good or not it will sell a ton in its first week just for the curiosity level.

I think alot of negative things about Axl , he has done a shitload of stupid things but the guy is smart, and he knows that the name = album sales.

I don't think the name matters.

As far as Axl himself is concerned, I don't think the name matters to him in the musical sense, I think it's become a matter of personal pride. Duff and Slash are fighting him about it? Well, he's furious with them for "abandoning" him, so it'd make sense that he's doing this to prove a point. "See this? I started this. I'll go with it til I wanna drop it." That kind of thing.

Regardless of what name Democracy's released under, it'll sell. This whole procrastination thing when it comes to the release may be alienating a portion of his following but I know even friends of mine who despise Axl on principle will buy the album just to see what the fuck's so insane about it that it took so long to finish. Is Axl going to take a different route with Democracy? Possibly. He might want to evolve as an artist but he might also cling to what he knows because it's familiar and stepping out his comfort area might frighten him a bit. It's all well and good to experiment with style but an album theme is a delicate issue. It weaves everything together. He'll probably go with something he Knows, for that.

"Its been stated several times by band members that he did want to do a grunge record. Its a known fact. Same thing with the industrial shit."

Jameslofton, that must have been alot...I mean ALOT of meth you did back in the day. ?Please give me reliable sources for this. ?Sounds like manure to me. ?


"I wish Axl had listened to Slayer and Megadeth instead of Nirvana and Pearl Jam. That would have been a much more interesting direction for the band to take, and the 'old' members might have stayed with GNR."

Jameslofton, we have much...MUCH different tastes. ?Going in a Slayer/Megadeth direction would have been THE kiss of death, and we wouldn't be here today. ?To me, that stuff's close to unlistenable. ?From a marketing perspective, you'd have to agree, you'd have obliterated about 95% of the female fans of Axl and GNR. ?Personally, I enjoyed Pearl Jam and Nirvana though I wasn't crazy over it...but at least it was listenable (is that even a word? :)) ?Also, if Axl was so hell-bent on "doing a grunge or industrial record," why didn't he release one???? ?Huh???? ?Gimme a fuckin' break. ?Are Maddy and The Blues grunge or industrial??? ?

Have you heard Madagascar? ?The Blues? ?CD? ?IRS??? ?Even Riyadh's got potential. ?(Silkworms however, is almost as bad as My World. ?:-X) ?

I just don't understand the Axl-bashers. ?This band's disintegration was for the best. ?Nobody here knows the whole story, and we probably never will. ?All I can tell you is that Madagascar and The Blues are 2 of GNR's best songs ever, and we've got more to look forward to. ?

If you don't like the name, just call it, The New Incarnation of Guns N' Roses. ?
NIG N' R!!! ?

 :hihi: ?Axl4Prez2004 ? :beer: ? ?

 ?

Madagascar? One of the best? That's reaching. It's a favorite of mine on a personal level but musically speaking it's lacking.

Axl wouldn't go in the grunge direction, again on principle. The grunge era tried to assassinate the hair metal era. Axl flourished in the latter, and he's not the kind to join things he can't beat. He sulks.*

(*I say that with only the utmost love, mind.)

I think James refers to an interview with Slash, where Slash said words to the effect of "Axl was into Pearl Jam and wanted to make a record that sounded like Pearl Jam, and I hate them" or something. Anyone know the interview I mean?

As far as the industrial direction's concerned? This was widely reported in the late 90's, Axl himself talked about his love of NIN and admiration for Trent Reznor etc.. Coupled with this he enlisted the likes of Sean Beaven, Chris Vrenna and Robin Finck.

However, I think Axl may have moved away from this a little, hence the inclusion of songs such as Blues and Maddy on the 2002 tour.

As a side note, I for one loved the "grunge era". Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Soundgarden especially formed the backbone of my listening tastes in my late teens - Guns was the band that got me into music, but the Seattle era really solidified it for me, that was one of the great eras of rock music IMO

Axl4prez, you were one of the people I respected here, at least until that last post. No reason to insult me over my meth use as a teenager. It was way out of line. The insults on these forums is at an all time high, and it needs to stop. As I have August18th and several others, I will ignore you from now on. Now, back to the topic: Jimmy, you gave the examples perfectly. Izzy also mentioned in an interview years ago about Axl wanting to go grunge. Jimmy, I agree with you about certain grunge bands being great(soundgarden, Alice in Chains, some pearl jam), but it was not a direction that Axl should have tried taking the band. It got them nowhere. You people who think GNR doing a Slayer type record would be wrong have not heard Slayer's 'Seasons in the Abyss' album. Ever since I heard that, I thought GNR should have tried something like that. They might have killed grunge if they had attempted it. There was a cool speed metal movement going on around the same time GNR was on top and grunge was about to hit the scene. Bands like Slayer,Megadeth,Death Angel to name a few. GNR could have stolen their buzz and created something incredible out of it. Go listen to 'War Ensemble', 'Dead Skin Mask', 'Seasons in the Abyss'. Go get Death Angel's 'Act II' album. Pretty fucking intense! You'll get chills listening to the songs just mentioned, especially 'Seasons', and you'll wish Axl had done something similar. Girls not liking Slayer?? You have no idea what you're talking about. Go to a Slayer concert, there are plenty of girls there.

I'ds forgot about Axl's Pearl Jam fetish, never as strong as the Reznor/NIN fixation but I do recall
him bringing in former PJ drummer Dave Abbruzzese in for a while after Sorum was out..

You're funny, james. First, you say the ex-members said things about Axl trying the industrial and grunge sound. But then, when Axl said something abou that stupid Snakepit album, you said he was lying. : ok:

I'm not saying Axl didn't fucked up. But he wasn't the only one. Slash was fuckin' blind to every new sound out there. So was Duff.

And what the fuck about this: "Slayer and Megadeth instead of Nirvana and Pearl Jam"? Hell, no! :puke:

Hahaha, no shit.

They weren't blind to new music. They just didn't feel the need to latch onto whatever sound that was hot at the moment. That would be lame and the band would have sold out if that happened.

Right on. 

Some will say the old guys refused to evolve. 

Bullshit.

They didn't believe in the singers vision and bailed with their musical dignity.  Their evolution coming in the form of a singer that inspires them, with a stealth sound that plays to their strengths.

Exactly! The evolving argument is a load of crap. They weren't afraid of evolving. They just didn't see the point in abandoning the GNR sound to fit in with whatever was hot at the time. Imagine how ridiculous that would have been if they made a Pearl Jam style record. They would have had Metallica beat in the sell out department!

What constitutes selling out, in your views, and what's the shame?

Everyone makes their living. I do it by working minimum wage jobs, musicians who are good enough do it by using their talent to pad their bank accounts. Giving the World At Large what they want isn't selling out, it's catering to their own need for luxury. But then again... just my opinion.

Jameslofton, I apologize to you and hope we can still post as adults here.  It was a bad joke, and I apologize, sorry man.  I enjoy your posts, and I hope we can keep on keepin' on.  I don't like the insults either, and you know I'm pretty good about not being an a-hole, but I was one here, again I'm sorry.  Maybe it's the heat!  It's fuckin' over 110 degrees here with the heat index!   

In this case I just found it so unbelievable that Axl would take GNR to full-blown grunge.  I kind of look at the different sounds Axl would do as something like he did with the 2002 tour.  Personally, I loved the incorporation of the synth. into the intro. of YCBM, it was one of my highlights from the show. 

On the Megadeth/Slayer vs. GNR female fan-base, I wish I had the stats, but I'm willing to bet GNR's chick fans outnumber them by alot.  Also, a couple songs that sounded like that PJ song Old Woman witing behind a Counter etc... (Hearts and Thoughts) would have been acceptable...but like I said, Axl would never make an album where everything sounds the same.  Think of the diversity on the UYI's, I think it's similar to the diversity we'll hear on Chinese Democracy.

 :peace:
Axl4Prez2004 

Would I care as much?

I would care more...  Why does Axl want to keep the GNR name?  OK yeah, we all know it was his dream...  But after all is said and done it's just a name.  A name associated forever with the past, and you can not undo that.  When I see Axls new band, I want to see something fresh, something not associated with the old band.  I want to be able to go see Axl in concert without having to hear 75% old material and see people stuck in the 80's with their mullets walking around in their tight pants, in their cheesy GNR clothes from 1989. 

Why do I think Axl want's to keep the GNR name?

Money.  He thinks the name will keep people coming to the shows and will sell more albums.  It seems his ego is too big to go around to smaller clubs.   He can't fill an arena with out the GNR name.  But the reality is, he can barely fill an arena WITH the GNR name.  Start new, that's my opinion.

For those people stuck in the 80's you will always have your CDs and concert videos.

I guess I would, cos I usually refer to them as Axl's band, instead of GN'R.

I agree with what people are saying about evolving. Just becasue Slash and Duff didnt want to do grunge or industrial doesnt mean they were holding the band back - they may have listened to that stuff and simply not wanted to play on material like that. Also if im not mistaken in the Kurt Loader interview back in like 1999 or 2000 its Axl who claims Slash was holding them back from doing a old school Rn'R record - im sorry but lookking at Slash's material since Guns theres no way i can belive that.

Lineker10, there are many discrepancies between what Axl says and what everyone else says about what happened to bring about the GNR trainwreck. Guess who's lying?

Not to mention that is has been Axl who has been holding the band back all this time.

Yeah, "their musical dignity" is awesome, just hear Contraband! : ok:

Well, at least all the former members have done something all these years. Of course its not as good as GNR was. But at least they create and release music. Axl's the one that doesn't ever do anything, refusing to show any 'musical dignity'. I still laugh at Axl's comments about burying AFD. Good job at burying it.

Wow! And you said on this topic how you support Axl:

Thank God we have fans like you! : ok:

I do support him, but I'm not gonna deny what the former members have contributed to the music world. To be honest, I dont really like VR. Very weak album by such extreme talents. But at least they're trying, and they are doing what they love. Its weird how alot of you guys think you have to pick sides between Axl or the former members. Who put that into your head? For the past 12 years, I have always looked forward to albums released by GNR members, because it was the only things we ever got that was associated with the GNR name.

Yeah, I look foward too. I have both Snakepits albums, I have Contraband. Have mp3 of Izzy, Gilby, Duff. So what? I don't think we have to support them only because "they are trying". I'm sorry, but judgin by what I heard from the new band, it's better wait that long for Chinese Democracy than listen to crap music by the ex-members.

Also, I didn't pick Axl's side. It's just a matter of being fair. You're putting all the blame in Axl just because you heard the ex-members talkin A LOT about this, while Axl only talked a couple of times. Even if they are always changin' their point of view, you still want to their side.

All I'm saying is that is no way Slash and Duff could be such pets in Axl's hand. They are not that weak. You know, they are two against only one person, and they had Matt's support by that time. Why only Axl was left in the band? Because Axl said so? Bullshit! Axl wasn't the boss, he couldn't fire them (only Matt, but I still think he needed Slash and Duff backup). It's obvious that they all fight with each other, it's not an only person's fault.

The thing is that is way too easy to blame Axl. He never talked much about this. We only know the facts from Slash and Duff's point of view. But we all know the truth has much more sides.

I completely disagree.
What difference does it make? Do you follow this band because they are called Guns N Roses or because Axl is still in it?

So lets say he did leave the name alone and Axl still didnt release anything up until this point. Your telling me that you all wouldnt still be here? Still wouldnt be frusterated?Etc...

And do you really think that Axl is keeping the name for money issues?Cmon people. Axl and the old members for that matter have never been motivated by money. In Axl mind, whether you think its right or not, he believes that GNr hasnt ended with the old members. They are gone but he still wants to move on.

If Axl was using the gnr name for money reasons he could easily have been pumping albyms out all of these years. He doesnt care about that shit. All he cares about is putting the best product he can under that name. He knows what the name means and you wont hear anything that doesnt deserve to be under that name musically.

Whether the band is called the Malibu Mafia, 2000 Intentions or GNr it dont really matter. It comes down to wanting to hear what Axl has in mind musically and why the old band split.

Putting in Your 2 cents as the established facts would be misreading and misleading. Or gimme the sources.

Neither was Axl nor did Axl.

It's all about opening things up and not being pigeonholed.

Loder: This "End of Days" track, "Oh My God," is real, real different. Have you been listening to [or] working with samples and stuff a lot? Has your whole musical approach changed?

Rose: No, not a lot, no. Basically, [I'm] listening to everything that's out there as far as music goes. That was a big difference between myself and Slash and Duff, is that I didn't hate everything new that came out. I really liked the Seattle movement. I like White Zombie. I like Nine Inch Nails, and I like hip-hop. I don't hate everything. I don't think everybody should be worshiping me 'cause I was around before them.
So once it was really understood by me that I'm really not going to be able to make the right old-style Guns N' Roses record, and if I try to take into consideration what Guns did on "Appetite," which was to kind of be a melting pot of a lot things that were going on, plus use past influences, I could make the right record if I used my influences from what I've been listening to that everybody else is listening to out there. So in that sense, I think it is like old Guns N' Roses as far as, like, the spirit and the attempt to throw all kinds of different styles together. If you get to the second guitar solo in "Oh My God," Paul's doing a very Izzy Stradlin-Aerosmith-type riff in the middle of the song, which is a completely different thing than everything else that's going on in the music, but yet it blends. There's a disco drumbeat in the post-chorus, in the heaviest section of the song. We blended a lot of things.

See. He'd no way try to Monkey pJ or NIN album or the sorts, Not to mention megawhatever.   
The basic spirit of GN'R is, in his outlook, not to be narrow-minded but to attempt to throw and blend all kinds of different styles together. I guess many of us can agree with him on this one.

Perhaps the quote above also gives the main reason for his carrying the name.
Lets think about the name GUNS and ROSES. IMO, It's like, so to speak, where the hard and the soft, art and nature, or the old and the new, whatever extremes meet and amazingly enough, make uncanny harmony. The name shows what it is.


Not that I personaly care about the name.

PPBEBE, you are wise beyond your years! Youngun, money plays a factor in Axl's world-no doubt. He would not have been able to pay these musicians if the record company had not funded this project to outrageous extremes. No record company in the world would give Axl 13 million for a solo project!! And, quite frankly, I am not sure if all the musicians would be around unless they saw a nice golden egg at the end of the Rainbow. :peace:

Like it not, Contraband is a success. ?

Slash and Duff have moved forward professionally and are virtually never lpublically looked on in a negative light, both have their reputations in tact and have firmly distinguished themselves outside of GNR. ?Hell, Slash is revered for cryin' out loud.

On the other hand....

Yeah, musical dignity MUST be part of commercial success. ::)

Moved forward? That's what Axl wanted to do. But what Slash and Duff wanted?

On other hand, once Axl is back, we all know who deserves the spot light.

Id also like to add that non of us really know what went on. We wernt there when therse things were going on so its difficult to judge. However - all this talk of Slash and Duff holding the band/Axl 'back'. Slash left in 1995/1996 and Duff left in 1998 - and theres still no new album- so i dunno about that one.

The only person holding Axl back is Axl. Its time to stop blaming people who left over the past 14 years. It is not Izzy, Duff, or Slash's fault for the lack of progress.

Who blame Izzy, Duff or Slash for this? Are you sure you readed the posts?

Im not saying holding him back now - i mean that people were saying that Slash/Duff wouldnt evolve and were holding Axl back when they were in the group. Well if they were holding him back then surley when they left then we would have seen some progress by Axl in a new direction e.g. a new album - which hasnt as of yet materialised.

Yadda, yadda, if, when...

You are obviously looking at things through Rose colored glasses and are void of any objectivity.

Sure. Why have arguments when you can only try to make fun of other people's opinion? : ok:

Lineker10, you are hitting the nail on the head. In the early 90's, everyone blamed Izzy. In the mid 90's, the blame went to Slash. As we started cruising into the late 90's, it started becoming Duff and Matt's fault. I cant believe people fell for this load of crap. Now, people dont want to blame Axl, so they start rehashing the old blame games. Sorry dudes, it doesnt work this time. Its been almost 14 years since Izzy left, 9 years since Slash left, and 7 or 8 years since Matt and Duff left. In the timeframe just mentioned, Axl has released one song. If they were to blame for not 'evolving', there should have been a flood of GNR albums on the market from 1998-2005. We're still waiting for one album. Everyone else 'evolved'. Axl is the only one who hasn't.

Again, who is blaming the forthcoming GNR album on Slash, Duff or Izzy here?

Lineker10, is that what you meant?
see voodoochild's post wasn't about yours.

You dont think no one has been placing blame on ex members for Axl's lack of progress? Have you been taking a nap for 10 years?

I must be...wheres the hatred toward Slash and company because of whats gone on with the GNR name?

In fact, the old members have cleared themselves from Axl and have the "good guys" image in the public in regards to the whole GNr situation.

The old gnr legacy has not and will not be destroyed because of Axls actions or lack there of. What will be ruine dis Axls image. If he doesnt follow thru with CD or it sux he will suffer not the old members or the old name.

think about it what's in a name. Guns n roses is like the rolling stones it doesn't happen without axl. If he want's to keep the name then keep it. Would any of you follow him in a so called solo career. Or let me ask this What is the main reason you like axl in the first place. ME personally his antics and his attitude Im sure he wouldn't change just becasue of the name of a band. Im ?die hard axl fan he is what music is weather you like it or not. The old members are great yeah and maybee they are just money hungry who knows but. You have to belive that everything happens for a reason. When it's wright it will happen and when it does it's gonna be a like a freight train.

Smile people you should be thankfull for what we got now

 ?Let's agree on this fact. ?We can't determine who was at fault until we have heard both sides of the story. ?It's like my parents divorcing about 25 years ago. ?Yeah, it was likely my dad's fault, but how the hell do I know? ?The likely answer in the case of GNR's break-up is that all parties involved were partially to blame. ?The % of culpability can only be fairly discussed when/if Axl ever decides to come out of seclusion. ?

 ?Don't worry, Axl isn't gonna spend all this time trying to destroy the legacy of Guns N' Roses. ?That's just my opinion.

 ?To think it's ALL about money is a mistake...no doubt it plays a role, but Axl really is/was the captain of the GNR ship...somebody here at HTGTH has that quote from Slash on their quote page about Axl going down with the ship...no actually, it's more like that GNR ship is lost at sea...Izzy bailed out early in a lifeboat with his dogs and bike and ha lived the life he enjoys leading, writing music and chilling not performing in front of huge #'s of people. ?Matt, Slash and Duff chose to leave the ship a bit later and stumbled around until they realized they needed a new captain to be successful...enter Scott Weiland. ?
 ?I don't believe the GNR ship has sunk, it just hasn't come back to shore yet. ?Axl's a modern-day Odysseus for God's sake! ?Damn I'm delirious. ?

COME BACK AXL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ? :'(

You're making some valid points, but hear me out for a sec. Over the past 10 years, all the ex members stories are basically the same. With Axl, the story changes every so many years. First, Axl said Slash didn't want to 'evolve', and then he says Slash didn't want to do a 'typical'GNR record. Which is it? It cant be both. I would be more likely to believe Axl's version of events if his story didn't change on a consistent basis. The truth is one story, not several.

I would follow Axl no matter what, GNR name or not. ? The name is coo for him but even if he didn't use it, I think most of us would still be here anticipating what Axl is going to come up with next. ? ? About the GNR breaking up, I never blame just Axl, they imploded on themselves. ? ?They grew up so to speak and everybody wanted to go in different directions or stay right where they were at and they couldn't agree. ? I am not saying that Axl wasn't a brat cause by his own admission he can be one, I do believe that what Slash and Duff and all the rest say but that IMO isn't the sole reason. ?Can't put the blame on one man.

I hardly made fun of your opinion.

In simpler terms, your lack of objectivity deems your view uninteresting and not worthy of "arguments", let alone insightful discussion.

Good call gnrfan. : ok:


Think?  You should've put "I think" or "IMO".
Putting in Your 2 cents as the established facts would be misreading and misleading. Or gimme the proof.

Nope. As far as I know younggunner is right.

I've seen nothing of the sort. I'm talking about blaming them for the slow progress of Chinese Democracy itself and not for the lawsuits or anything outside current GN'R.  I guess it's logically impossible. There's none at most in this thread. So it's irrelevant innit?

Well said YG.

GNR's legacy will be fine, AFD alone sealed that deal.

Axl's final legacy will be written with CD, good or bad.

You have to be kidding me right? You need to stop lying. Slash and Duffs story changes pretty much every interview where Axls story has stayed pretty much the same.

Also you need to actually read ALL of what axl is say and not just what you want. I love people like you claim that axls story changes when in fact its duff and slashs story that is always changing.

Wow. You are the poster of the year for this bullshit you are spewing.

There was a thread on the boards last year about how slash and duff are liars, and had their story keeps changing with every thing they say.  slash and duffs story changes like the wind, its not even funny.

You have me scratching my head again....

How has Axls story changed. Have we even fully heard Axl story yet?

When did Axl say he didnt want to evolve and when did he say Slash didnt want to do a typical album?

The tunes and whistels have changed with Duff and Slash not Axl. And im not just saying that. They have said some changing things over the eyars....but tell me what you mean in the above

and of course the old members stories will be the same. Its 2 against 1. SLash and Duff are still together. The fatc that Slash and Duff have been changing their tune over the yrs and Axl says the same stuff when he does talk shows that Slash and Duff arent always telling the truth.

i think he means that at one point Axl accused Slash etc.. of not wanting to evolve and then in a 2002 statement, he alluded to the fact that he wanted to make a more Appetite-style record and Slasg would not allow it

now, these words are probably easily misconstrued and what Axl in fact was refering to was "It's 5 oclock somewhere" as allegedly at the time Axl considered some of this material Guns material. This would explain the "not allowing" comment he made in 2002

what Axl is saying is that just because he wants to "evolve" or try newer things doesnt mean he doesnt want to do an AFD type record.

And Axl once said in an interview that he Slash solo album would have been a good foundation for a new gnr album. But Slash is too lazy or just had no interest in pushing the envelope in terms of a new guns sound.

Not saying SLash is wrong. Not saying Axl is either. Its clear they both have different musical philosophies and motivations. Hence the break up...

Duff summed up the break up of the band better than anyone as of yet in his song from Beautiful Disease titled 'Who's To Blame'.? Hell we will never know what went down. The odds are not in favor of Axl when you have Duff, Izzy, Gilby, Matt and Steve all more or less stating the samething basically over the last 12 years. That being Axl was a total ass to deal with. We will never know what the hell happened.

Im sure Axl was an ass to deal with. But so could Slash and Duff. FOrget the other members. It coems down to Axl, Slash and Duff. Ive also heard othe rpeopel say SLash is hard to work with and when soemthing seems cool or good he canns it because its not "cool" in his mind. Sounds similar to Axls claims as well.

Point is they all have their faults and unfortunately they werent able to meet at a common ground. case closed. legacy over. new chapter....

Of course you did. In fact, you still do:

...Or maybe YOU can't see beyond what you want to. In simple terms, your lack of arguments still show how "uninteresting" you're point is.

You obviously don't want to see the other side of the history, the side of Axl - who you and a lot of people here are trying to put all the blame in every single problem in Guns N' Roses history, like Slash and Duff were the good guys, who did NOTHING to breaking up the band. Yeah, right! ::)

Nope, just commented on your lack of objectivity and it diminshing the validity of your point of view.

Nothng more, nothing less.

LOL. So it's lack of objectivity because you say so! Good point here!

You're objectivity went south with the above blanket declaration of possible future spot light deservance.

Of course, Falcon. You ignored the arguments and just bitched about "lack of objectivity". But hey, look who said that:

Great objectivity, dude! Slash is never mentioned as "former GNR member" and never talks about GNR in current interviews! People never said VR is "that band with GNR guys"!

But hey, I can't say anything good about Axl. It's lack of objectivity. Damn!

If you don't wanna reply my arguments because you don't want/need/can, that's ok. But don't try to be a smart-ass.

I never said they weren't referred to as "former GNR members", now did I?? I merely stated they have moved forward and distinguished themselves outside of GNR as viable creative forces.? No matter what you or I think, a number 1 record, multiple hit singles and a Grammy award have entrenched VR as an entity separating the members from their prior bands.  They will always be former members of GNR and STP, but now they have identities outside of their collective pasts as well.

Sure you can say positive things about Axl, no problem with that here. Although basing positive comments and future accolades on something that may or may not ever see the light of day is a bit premature, don't you thinK?

Can you share some examples of Slash and Duff changing stories over the years?  Ive heard this claim countless times, but cant recall any of the examples to back it up...So feel free to share.

Vr wasnt able to capture the public like many had hoped for. They died down after FTP. They failed in comparison to Audioslave. I remember reading how CB had "Audioslave Legs all Over it". Clearly not the case. They had a nice initial pop. But after that it has died down.

Of course the old members can be looked upon differentlty now. They did somehting Axl has yet to do. Release an album.

Not at this moment in time. Dont personally care to go back and look for and get quotes and examples. Too old of a story and pointless. DOnt even care that much anymore as much I used to.

Off the top of? my head was when thte Buckcherry guy said something about Slash wanting to can anything that sounded like it would work. This basically goes along with what Axl said in one of his rare statements.

Theres other things they have said over the yrs but again I dont have the patience nor do I care to go look back on it.

BTW booker I sent you a pm.

Thats the thing...You, Dave, and others have nonchalantly thrown around that claim for years now and it seems that youre not even aware of what youre referring to.  And this isnt about minor details that might require a bit of searching to recall...youre talking about entire stories about the break-up changing.  It seems to me something that major wouldnt be hard to remember, but... :-\

My guess is that those eager to assail the former members credibility have confused Slash and Duffs many reasons for leaving for one changing story, and its been perpetuated for so long that nobody even bothers to think about what theyre actually talking about.


1. This has nothing to do with Slash and/or Duff changing their story.
2. ?We're still friends. Afterwards, there was this huge buzz going around. It was a time when Keith and I were still writing songs for a third Buckcherry album and Slash and Duff were writing songs, and there was talk like, why not form a band? After Slash sh*t-canned the whole thing did what they were doing became a project later. He just didn't want me as a singer, that's all there is to it. He had decisions that he had to make you know, we all do. It was just a month out of my life.? - Josh Todd

I believe this is the quote youre referring to, and its clear to see that Todd said Slash canned the project because he didnt want him for a singer, not because it "worked" (a claim thats never made any sense to me). 

As a side-note, this quote has been used by Dave to suggest that Josh disliked Slash and found him "bad to work with," which I find amusing considering the first sentence.


Id hate for my return to possibly appear acrimonious...but thats a cop-out.

Its good to be back.  ;D


Okay, thanks.  :beer:

No, because in the past I have always supported what I said with examples and articles. But being this is an old topic I dont feel like looking for the examples. If you want them so badly sift through my 2000 posts and u will find what you are looking for.

Quite frankly I dont care about "defending" as much as I used to. We have talked about this topic countless times and I guarentee you I have said the same statement before and have supported my argument. So if you are really interested go look through my posts from god knows when. But I promise you its all there.

This isnt the quote Im referring to.

not a cop out...just being honest. I could careless really. WHy would I cop out to somehting that I had said once before and had "proof"...I think you know me well enough to know that? when arguing with you I have never copped out and always brought up examples. Have I knocked you down too many times that you are now suffering from memory loss?

Like I said im just being honest. Dont need to prove anything. Maybe one night when I have nothin to do ill look but for the time being forget it. But its there

I was going to ignore this, but while Im here...


Not exactly true. ?In the month of December, they were averaging about 50,000 records a week, more than they had sold since June 2004. ?It was a result of the Christmas spike, but thats irrelevant to the bottom line - the album picked up significantly half-a-year after its release. ?

FTP also arrived nearly 3 or 4 months after "Slither" was released as a single, and was a successful single itself for a couple of months. ?"Dirty Little Thing" didnt perform well, but that doesnt speak to the success of Contraband or VR as a whole.


Not according to facts...

Audioslaves debut is double-platinum. ?Contraband is...yup, you guessed it. : ok:

Im not surprised by your attempts to downplay VRs success, but it doesnt really reflect reality.

Booker, you are absolutely right. The Axl is God' part of the fanbase has been saying this shit for years. You wanna know why they cant find any Slash and Duff contradictions? Because there aren't any. Axl is the only GNR member that contradicts himself on a regular basis. ?Out of this entire GNR saga, the only story that changes is Axl's. Who are you guys going to believe: A bunch of guys who tell the same story year after year or one guy who changes stories continuously? Younggunner, your using buckcherry shit as a reference? Man, you're grasping at straws!

From a numbers standpoint VR is there. But from the feel of the radio and just feel of music, Audioslave is bigger.

Im not trying to downplay anything. Im just making sure VR people realize VR are not as big as many think they are or expected them to be. Imo, Vr barked louder than it bit. SOme of the big legit groups in the genre have created more of a buzz than VR. Thats how it seems to me. But that doesnt mean shit if some1 likes the music. If yoiu think VRs music is great and you love it, great for you. Then what i say shouldnt mean shit to you. But in the grand scheme of things as predicted by yours truly...Vr have rocked but thats bout it.

thanks im honored

Who said Axl is god? I know, I know because I support Axl and actually think he isnt soley the bad guy in the whole situation, and I actually think most of what he says is true. makes me a nutswinger. I apologize in advance. Like Slash and Duff, all the supporters shit doesnt stink and you are always right because hey, its 2 on 1....

James, you keep saying Axl keeps changing his story. Give me examples of when he has changed his stroy. I really wish my memory would come back to me and I really wish I had the examples to show you how stupid you would look. So if you are blessed with a better  memory than me and have the exact quotes please share them with me.

Younggunner, I dont really mean disrespect to you guys(and girls) that I refer to as the 'Axl is God' fanbase. I just came up with that name for the people here who think Axl has never made a mistake and they'll bash anyone who says he has. As far as examples: several were given in this thread. Axl saying Slash didnt want to evolve, and then saying he didnt want to do a typical GNR record. Which is it? It can only be one of those reasons, not both. But I'm like you as far as the memory shit goes. I did alot of drugs over the years, and memory's been fading. I quit smoking weed 7 months ago, so hopefully the memory will start coming back. To be honest, I think alot of our memories to detail are fading cause we've went so many years with nothing.

WHen I have said Axl is perfect?

can you provide the exact quotes and the question he is answering to?

With me its not just the memory. I just dont care that much anymore. I used to know everything and can pinpoint everything when arguing with peeps on this board. But after doing it for a few years over and over it just gets old and you begin to lose interest.

 ??? ???

The "feel of the radio" and "feel of music?"   :hihi:  Well, when you decide to start using actual facts, youll realize that your initial statement was objectively wrong. 


Perhaps you should start paying attention to facts...then youll recognize that VR are in fact just as big as many think:

"No matter what you or I think, a number 1 record, multiple hit singles and a Grammy award have entrenched VR as an entity separating the members from their prior bands."

^ Those are factual statements.  Contraband was #1 on the Top 200 Albums chart.  "Slither" and "Fall To Pieces" were hit songs.  "Slither" earned them a Grammy.  Those are facts that he stated, so why does he need you to tell him VR is not as big as he thinks?  He didnt even mention VRs successful tours, double platinum album, critical acclaim, press coverage, etc.  Meanwhile, youre using the "feel of music" to gauge their success...It seems youre the one who needs to reasses his view of VRs success.


Examples?

the name plays a huge part, bigger part than you would think.

Yes they are dominating the music world  ::)

Basically look at any quote from the boys when talking bout the band and the album...

SO if you really want some sleazy in your face, raw rock n roll please see CB :no:

And this is the difference between our evaluations, I suppose.  I present you with indisputable facts to prove a point, and you, knowing that you cant actually counter them, refer to arbitrary and abstract concepts (the "feel of radio") and statements that were never made ("they are dominating the music world"). 

Its very simple.  I can post a list of VRs achievements and tell you that theyre as succfessful as that list indicates.  So if I think theyre successful based on these cold, hard facts...how are they not as successful as I think? 


Basically look at any quote from the boys when talking bout the band and the album...

I meant the second part of your quote...about the big "legit" groups creating more buzz.  While youre at it, perhaps you could explain what "legit" means.  ???

As opposed to what, Coldplay?

If you're looking for music that edgy and agressive, or lyrical content ranging from autobiographical to abstract, CB is definately not for you.

So you're trying to downplay VR's factual accomplishments, their success in moving forward professionally and distinguishing themselves outside of their prior bands identities by your perception of "bigger" in comparison to a band who came together in similar fashion??

Hmmm, smells like a reach to me...

I think both of you are right.

VR have sold a lot of records, played sold out shows and done pretty good.

But on the other hand, they're not the biggest band on the planet as it sometimes might seem when you read some posts on various boards.

They don't sell out arenas yet (as far as I know) and their success isn't global as far as I know. That might have to do with the limited amount of touring they've done in certain markets (no shows in South America, certain European markets were skipped on the last tour etc.).


Anyway, this isn't the VR section so I suggest you continue the VR discussions in the right section.



/jarmo

It still boggles my mind how people place blame on individual members-the Gnr break up was generic as it comes in rock and roll-musical differences. Period. End of discussion. Nobody's right or wrong. You stop getting along and move on with your life. They ALL say stupid shit-Axl, Slash, Duff, and the two poodles (Adler and Sorum). Izzy is the only one that has shown any maturity by staying the fuck out of it. Booker, as much as you can be a pain in the ass, glad to see you back-this board needs intelligent debaters! (and people with a good memory) :peace:

Most definately, plenty of blame for all involved.


Absolutely.

The IQ of this place just went up exponentially.

Personally , I would be just as  excited and happy (maybe more so) if this new album came out simply under the name "Axl Rose" ....

It's Axl's vocals and lyrics more then anything that I am waiting for. Not to diss the guys in the band but for me , Axl can hire whoever he likes to do the music (as long as it fits his vision) , but at the end of the day it will be Axl's vocals , lyrics and delivery of them that I'm most interested in.  :peace:

Just becuase they have certain achievements and numbers doesnt mean they are those numbers.

Palmerio in baseball has "great" numbers but if you ask anyone that knows baseball they will tell you hes not a hall of famer. He never was MVP, never lead the league in HRS, etc. Same with VR. They might have all these fine and dandy numbers but again, imo they arent a big band right now.


Bands like Audioslave, NIN, GD, FF...These are established bands that are constantly being talked about and played here in a big market. They are a bigger buzz than VR. Thats all nothing more nothing less.

Agreed. But the members would always talk up a big game.

Vr is a solid, safe album. If you like it great. I could care less. If you hate it I could careless.

Im not downplaying anything. Vr is what it is. A nice lil band. All Im saying is that just because certain numbers might be there doesnt mean they are that.

And thats what Im saying. If they truly were a bigtime band, they would be huge all over the map. They barely are big here in the states.

They also re released CB about 10x so Im sure that helped too. Not to mention the different color sit came in when it was first released.

;D

 ???

Again, facts are facts.? If all you can do in response to them is refer to your own personal, arbitrary "buzz gauge," then it appears you might just be in denial.? Youre obviously not a fan of VR, and eager to downplay their success.? But once again, in an objective analysis, youre personal measurement of success (based on the feel of radio and feel of the music, whatever that may mean) is meaningless next to real facts.


Ive already explained the Audioslave comparison.? Im assuming you were unaware of Audioslaves actual sales when you made the presumption that VR didnt match...and you were wrong.? The othersare established bands.? Theyre not new bands like VR, and in terms of first-week sales, they havent sold much more than VR.? In fact, NIN only sold less than 20,000 more than VR for With Teeth.? Only Green Day has seen a huge surge after the first week.? So despite not meeting your invented definition of the word, VR are actually very much legit.

As for buzz, Im sure youll once again point to made-up means of measurement, but if you referred to reality (TV/radio appearences, press coverage, etc.), you would know better.

donno about the memory but I simply admire people here for their long lasting love's feeling (n hate?) for the band.


The villain is back!!! :o

I thought you moved to the Morrissey board or somewhere. Well come back.

I gotta give it to Booker on this one - VR was massive when Contraband hit - loads of press coverage before and after, sold out tours (in the UK this is). In the UK they toured arenas on there 2nd tour and were 2nd headliners at the Download Festival (The new Monsters of Rock). There as big as a one album band can be at the moment without being a truley groundbreaking band ala original Gn'R, Zeppelin etc.etc.

vr were never huge when contraband came out. There were so many bigger bands. They were a 2nd tier band not a first. They were on the same level as apc or audioslave type band. If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

This might possibly be the most uniformed statement we've seen from you yet, and that says a helluva lot.

Not even relating to VR, are you telling me bands with "bigger" followings don't play festivals?

That's absolutely insane.

I find the obsession with "bigger" around here absolutely fascinating.? Bigger is hardly ever better or more important than relevent or timely.? "Bigger" is what killed old GNR in the first place, their credibility
diminished with every overblown video and egomaniacal hissy fit.

I'll take relevent over bigger anyday.

I have no interest in how "big" Axl's band can or will get.? I'll be much more happy if they can achieve
a degree of current relevence.

Sure VR managed to archive that relevance pretty well. I'm expecting something else from GN'R than the relevancy.
That's no way about the "mine is bigger than yours" matter.

Now, now, shouldn't this hot debate belong in the thread of "VR vs new GN'R" or in the Vr section?
The other thread too seems to be hijacked by certain members tho. ::)

I was trying to steer it back to GNR as well, notice the "Not even relating to VR" disclaimer in my post....

You are not smart enough to put words in my mouth so don't even try.? VR does not even headline most festivals, what does that tell you? They are not even in the top 20 for biggest bands out there right now. VR are not bigger or better then a lot of bands, and relevant?? Those boy and girl bands are relevant but that doesn?t mean they are any good now does it? The only reason VR are talked about is because they have formemer members of gnr and the lead singer of STP. If contraband was from some unknown band, it would not have sold 2m copies. And that is not even that many albums for a so called huge band.

I didn't aim that at you falcon. Or anyone in particular.


Some Young  bands like Roosters have sounds a bit similar to veteran VR... :yes:

I think the fact of the matter is, we wouldnt give to flying fucks for a another ass clown keeping the name of the band so he could exploit it for all that it is worth, but we do care because there is an Axl Rose.

Notice I said "Not even relating to VR"...

They headlined 2 tours on their own - the 2nd of which was selling out arenas in the UK - thats as big as it gets in terms of touring. And they were 2nd behind Black Sabbath - theres only a handful of bands if any that can headline above Sabbath.

I totally agree here and will always say it was all of them.  To put blame here and there quite honestly just is a waste of time so to speak and I don't mean any disrepect to anyone.   I thought the BTM was totally one sided in the fact it did come across as totally Axl's fault and that also because Axl didn't want to do the show, which I so wish he would have so we could have heard his input and it wouldn't have looked like they were in a sense all ganging up on him.   I have read old interviews so I know what Axl has said in the past to defend himself in the whole situation but the BTM was a big deal to watch and if you didn't read anything prior about what Axl has said about the breakup, it was pretty damning to him.    But it is pretty clear that everybody in the band had some sort of issue with him.

The reason certain people blame Axl more than other members is because Axl's various stories don't add up. Back in 94-95, everyone talked to the media about wanting to do another album, except Axl. Axl's excuse for not doing one was because the band didn't want to evolve. Then he says its because they didn't want to do a GNR style record. He's blamed Izzy in the past. He's also blamed Duff and Slash. When he finally decided he wanted to do an album, he started playing musical chairs with the band. He also gave new meaning to the term 'revolving door'. When he finally got a solid lineup to do a new album, he stil didn't want to do it. Whenever the topics about the breakup or no album in the mid 90's is brought up, the examples just mentioned is why people tend to believe the ex members point of view.

The only other thing I can say is that as I said in my last post, everybody seemed to have an issue with Axl..that is pretty clear..like I've never heard or read any of the other guys not getting along with each other.  Like Slash having a problem with Duff or vice versa.  Izzy having a problem with Slash or Duff.  Steven had the drug thing so that was a problem in and of itself.   I could be totally wrong and talking out of my ass but, I really don't recall anything like that. 
I still believe that all of them could have talked everything out and got everything out on the table instead of walking away so in that sense I feel they are all to blame..  I think the silence from some of them during that time added to the implosion.

The ex members like slash and duff stories have changed many times over the past 10 years. Their story changes likemost people change their underwear.

dave, would you give examples of these so called story changes by Slash and Duff? You keep saying that, but never offer anything to back it up.

Dave, I haven't had the time to respond to your response to my post last week. But I have one question for you about the idea of having a larger band during the UYI tour and where it may have come from...

Who performed on stage with the Rolling Stones in 1989 on their Steel Wheels tour with the big band backing them?
Don;t tell me that it was Izzy's idea (he was on stage performing with another GNR member) because Izzy wasn't even around when the idea of having the big band came out. HINT - it wasn;t Slash's idea either, he would not have the idea of adding horn players, backp Female dancers/singers & an extra keyboard player because he doesn't just think up things like that. He also didn't draw up the contract that put the existence of GNR during the UYI Era in jeopardy if they didn't follow his lead and do everything to his liking. It wasn't Duff's idea because he was too drunk to even think shit up like that. If anything the big band only made him drink more cuz he could hide that on stage.

If you know the answer, then you had no business responding to my comment about Steven (or even Izzy for that matter) getting their nuts fried for objecting to the idea of deviating from the starting 5 GNR Rotation. : ok:
If you don't know the answer, then you don't know shit about GNR and don;t have any authority putting down GNR fans for their knowledge of the band that you don;t possess. : ok:

BTW - back to the topic.
I thought about it a lot and think that a rock band with average players and Axl Rose around in the late 1980s (under a pop/metal outfit - MTV era) would have attained the same success of a Skid Row, which is only a tiny fraction of what GNR was with the original 5 + Matt Sorum + Dizzy.

 :peace:
MNRF

it is Axls Solo Project right.... AXL is NOT  Guns N Roses. HE is not the band, TOGETHER they make Guns N Roses. therefore i think that he should not use the GNR name. it's just my opinion, it's the way i see it !!!  : ok:

Can we keep the fights in the other threads. This has no place here at all. You had your chance to respond earlier, but for whatever reason, the debate moved on without you. Please don't pollute threads here by being stupid.

As for the name, well, I honestly believe that if Axl didn't get hold of the name and 'purge' the older guys, this band would have produced lackluster albums and embarrased the legacy by action.  I'm at least happy that a bad GnR album does not exist; i'd rather revel in the knowledge that their catalog of music is dense in quality.

It is arguable that Axl has embarrassed himself with his inaction but I can at least say that the GnR product has not suffered the ignomy that bands like Motley Crue, Van Halen, NIN, Pearl Jam and others by the release of inferior product.

Can we keep the fights in the other threads. This has no place here at all. You had your chance to respond earlier, but for whatever reason, the debate moved on without you. Please don't pollute threads here by being stupid.

As for the name, well, I honestly believe that if Axl didn't get hold of the name and 'purge' the older guys, this band would have produced lackluster albums and embarrased the legacy by action.? I'm at least happy that a bad GnR album does not exist; i'd rather revel in the knowledge that their catalog of music is dense in quality.

It is arguable that Axl has embarrassed himself with his inaction but I can at least say that the GnR product has not suffered the ignomy that bands like Motley Crue, Van Halen, NIN, Pearl Jam and others by the release of inferior product.

Whew!
I thought you were administrator, but I see your just trying  to acting like a punk on the boards.
Considering that I only have 300+ posts and you and others have 1000's of them, I wonder who really is polluting the boards with stupid posts that disparage people for making intelligent comments that you can't comment back on regards to Axl. the scary thing for you fuckers is that Im actually as big an Axl fan as any of you are, but I don;t live in make-believe land and dream up posts on things I think I hear in my head when I hear Axl sans-GNR. I only post when its worthwhile, not when I feel like farting out some thoughts. BTW, I always seem to have a way of killing certain posts. I don't know why but that happened recently with another post.

I'd rather see GNR with albums with a couple of killer songs on a couple more records than see no more GNR, or watch my idol destroy himself in private and rip off all his fans. I am jealous of VH, NIN, MC, and those bands you mentioned. At least they still play music and thats what its about, not a fucking crusade against a million people that put you down in the past that never seems to go public on the Music Store Shelves.

 : ok:
MNR