Here Today... Gone To Hell!

With the other threads going on about credit for writing music etc. i was just wondering what people though of these to questions-

a) Do you think Axl could have made AFD and the Illusions, been as good as the old band and acheived the great success by himself - without the old members?

and....

b) Do you think he could of been as good and successfull without the old guys but with a differant set of guys.

I always viewed Gn'R - apart from mabye Adler as a unit that while they may have had limited success would never have been as good without each other.

Without Izzy, AFD, Lies, and UYI would not exist. Simple as that. Why do you think Axl could have had success without old members when he's been without them for so long and he hasn't put out one album? Every former member of GNR has done an album. Hell, I bet Tracy and Roberta even have an album floating around out there somewhere. I think Axl is taking this shit too seriously. It doesn't have to be the greatest album ever. Let's say that CD is just an average album. So what? He can just immediately do another one and redeem himself. Every great band has a shitty album or two.

When my Mom and I were watching the VHI Behind the music about GNR she said and I quote, " AXL is GNR, those other guys would be nowhere without him! " :love: :beer: :D ;)

Axl - A? mediocre songwriter (So far, in my eyes, he hasn't proven himself as a songwriter, I'm not judging the unreleased tracks)

Slash - Not a very good songwriter (Judging: - All his solo albums - Contraband)

Izzy - A great songwriter (Judging: - All his solo albums - AFD - Lies - UYI)

Duff - A great songwriter (Beautifull Disease - AFD - Lies - UYI)

Steven - How the hell should I know, his druming sounds cool

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

AFD and the Illusions wouldnt be possible without the original bandmembers, who still have chemistry to this day together. They have written tons of music that isnt released because they couldnt always find a singer. Now that they have Weiland they could finish some of it, but im positive there was a ton of songs that were designed for Axl, that Axl refused to work on.

put it this way, would the old band have been successful without  Axl??

nope, i really don't think so!

I dont want to start "bashing" Axl, but Axl is the main reason for the breakup. The problems really started when he decided he wanted to start following trends. That was a HUGE mistake. First he wanted to do a grunge record, then an industrial record. Twelve years later, we have nothing. Its shocking to think that Axl wanting to copy grunge destroyed the greatest band on earth. GNR should have done something to counteract grunge, not try to fucking copy it. Izzy's departure created a void in the band, and apparently no other member knew what the hell to do. Imagine if Izzy had left in 1987 or 88. That would have been a nightmare beyond belief.

Axl could not have made AFD< or the Illusions without the old guys.

But Axl can make an album called Chinese Democracy with a new set of chararcters and it could turn out to be just as good as the old stuff or it could turn out better.

But until Axl decides to release the album, we will never know...

and its ashame because I have been rejuvenated by the new matrial lately. Ive been listening to it nonstop, except for rhiad. The new songs particularly IRS, TB,Maddy,and Cd are simply amazing. I dont care what peopels expectations are of this band and album. If Cd is like those songs and better thats all I want.

The songs we have heard so far are so much better than the stuff out on the radio right now. NAd they are 5  yrs old....The lyrics the music, its all great.

I never really thought of the blues as an amazing song, but for some reason it just hit me recently. The song is amazing. IMO, its the best gnr ballad ever, old are new....except for NR{i dont consider it a ballad}...but its better than DC.

Im kinda down on GNr but the music keeps me hanging. And Im glad for that. I just want this band to do it. Whetehr they turn out to be big or not is something they cant control. But what they can control is releasing quality,killer music like they have already introduced to us.

It sux that we have to speculate and be left in the dark, but if if CD is like these songs we have heard or better, ill suck it up. But it better come out, and not left in some vault. That would be the biggest tease we would all experience in our lives. And thats the ultimate no no

Younggunner, great post. I still dont understand why Axl has sat on this material. If The Blues had been released as a single in 1999/2000, it would have been #1. Axl could have reclaimed his throne with just one song. Instead, we got Oh My God. CD could also have had an impact at that time. Not a #1 song, but it would have been well received, and would have got heavy radio play. Axl has had several years when the album could have had a big impact(1999,2000,2002), but he refused to release it. 2004 was also a good time to do it. Total dead year music wise. What I fear is another 'movement' occuring similar to grunge, changing the musical landscape, and then Axl abandoning CD because it doesn't fit in with the musical landscape. It will only take one band to do this. Sometimes I wonder, if Nirvana had made it big in 1990, would Illusions have even been released?

There is no way Axl could have made AFD, Lies and UYI without the combination of the old guys.   Especially AFD, that album is timeless, one of the greatest albums of all time.  It was not only the songwriting but the attitude and the chemistry they had a a band.  I love Axl but all of them as a band back then, is what made Axl what he is or was.   Old GNR is responsible for all of their careers to this day.  I don't think any of the material that we have heard from their solo projects and even from VR will ever match up to the magic they had together as a band.

I hate it when certain members are treated like they matter more then other members in the band. The bottom line is a G n' R without either Axl or the other members straight-up sucks ! No, Axl would of failed without the old guys. They were meant to be together . I don't give a fuck about their solo acts, side projects , VR, and especially new-GnR. Too bad the last real Rock n' Roll band had an asshole as its frontman. :yes:

No he most certainly couldn't have

one of the main things that made GN'R such a great band, was that there were such distinctive personalities and characteristics at work. These things were reflected in the sound - Axl the wild screaming banshee with a sensitive side, Slash's rough, hard as nails blues, Duffs melodic punk sensibilities and of course Izzys ear for a great tune.

these things combined were what made GN'R a timeless rock act

don't forget Adler and his hollywood shuffle drumming style!
otherwise, I agree with you.

People who question if Axl could've done what he did without the old guys really don't appreciate GN'R for what they were.  They were the greatest band of all time.  An amazing collection of guys who were great musicians, performers, personalities, and songwriters.  Axl of course was a huge part of that, but so was Slash, Izzy, Duff, and even Steve and to a lesser extent Matt.  Just listen to the Hollywood Rose stuff.  Axl and Izzy without Slash and Duff.  Its good, but not great...and damn sure not on the level of GN'R.  Same goes for all the solo stuff the guys have done.  They just can't recapture the magic that was GN'R.

We will find out when CD is released.

No we wont - becasue the question was - could he have made AFD and the Illusions by himself or with other guys aka. could he have broken out of LA back in the day alone/with others.

A) No. Axl without a band....might be good but different. I'm not a fan of solo acts in general.

B) Yes. that would have been highly possible. There would be always plenty more fishes in the sea.
the same is true with the other guys. Well maybe the posibilities were less than Axl's.

a) no
b) I will anwer when CD comes out. Until yet, it's "no".

Nope, without Stradlin', Slash, or Duff those albums wouldn't exist. I honestly think that is the whole delay on the new GnR record. I think it is done and has been done for awhile now. This is not bashing Axl but i think the man realizes this and his insecurites releasing an album without the other guys presence especially Stradlin' is constantly in the back of his mind. I just wish he would get this album out and we can see if he can do something without the original guys. : ok:

Oh fuck no, especially AFD.

That was lighning in a bottle, and in all liklihood the creative peak for all involved.

Falcon, no truer words have ever been spoken. Good post. I dont care how great CD is, or the next VR record is, no member of GNR can top AFD. If a reunion happened and they did AFD Vol.2, they still couldn't top it. Shit, no band can top it.

Hmm, November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Madagascar, the blues all say your wrong on that one. : ok:

I'm with *Izzy* on this one, still much to prove.

I dont think he has anything to prove, what he has done in the past is proof enough that he is an amazing songwriter. Estranged alone is more then enough to prove his greatness.

Axl still would have been huge without the other guys. But how huge no one knows. He would not have been as big as guns was in the early 90s but no band will ever be that huge again. Axl would have been a huge star no matter who was backing him. He is the one who made guns n roses as big as they? were, if slash, izzy and duff had their way, gnr would never have gotten bigger than a club band. AFD and UYI would have been much different with out slash, duff and izzy. But who is to say they would not have been better without the old guys?

I should have elaborated, I think he still has to prove he can carry out his vision with whomever he chooses.

Until then, his greatness will always be associated with the old guys, not as self sufficient creative force.

Yep slash and duff have proven they are not half as good without Axl, now we are going to see what Axl can do without slash, duff and izzy.

Speaking solely on AFD, I agree.? Though "half as good" as that record would be a fine accomplishment.? Same goes for Axl though, he's gotta bring it creatively without those 3 or he rides in same boat.

For me, they are light years ahead of the UYI era GNR creatively, when/if CD drops, I hope Axl is as well.

For the UYI stuff VR is not as good as the top tier songs but the fillers songs I will say VR has some better songs. But that is not very hard since half the songs on the UYIs should have been cut.

Axl is a talented enough guy that he probably would have experienced some level of success but its very unlikely that he would have experienced it to the degree he did with GNR. They did truly catch lightning in a bottle. That type of success is rare. I also don't think he has the talent to write an AFD on his own. He was barely part of the actual GNR sound (the actual music). He is definitely a talented lyricist but I have yet to see proof that he could write a full album on his own. He would have had to surround himself with incredibly talented musicians but even then it would be unlikely to come up with an album like that because that type of chemistry is hard to find. You can find someone who is talented at their instrument but its much harder to find a person that completely gels with you.

I'm not a fan of the Illusions so I'll have to disagree, but even then I find it hard to compare the 2.
Different eras, different singers different visions. 

I'm perfectly happy with the old guys present situation and am looking forward to seeing if Axl can do it without them.  Until we hear something, a body of work sans his ex-bandmates, the jury is out on Axl.

No.
GNR was the right players in the right place in the right time. I can only think of the Beatles & Led Zeppelin as being the two other bands in which all the members are irreplacable. You can't even replace Steven Adler. Izzy himself said that when Steven went down, the whole sound of the band came down with it. I don't think Axl Rose would have picked a better bassist, lead/rhythm guitarist and drummer than Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. It would probably have ended up like Skid Row had Axl been running the show with average players (meaning a good record the first time out & an ok record the second time and then a front man going solo) although that is a bad comparison because its hard to tell what Axl can do without the old gNR.

BTW, I Just bought the Roxy Show from 1/18/1986 and listened to such a kick ass version of Back Off Bitch with Steven Adler on the drums giving it a whole new life. I really wonder if UYI would have been a better sounding record had Steven had recorded the whole thing (ironically Civil War is arguably the best track on UYI, not the best but certainly a consideration, and that has great drumming courtsey of Steven Adler the popcorn). Of course, Steven would have had his nuts fried for telling Axl how poor of an idea it was to bring in Tracy/Roberta & Teddy Zigzag and the 976-Horn section. Algthough getting fried by the crack was definitly a worse option.

MNR

Even if Axl never hooked up with slash and duff he still would have had Izzy in his band since those two grew up together and were in a few bands together before the gnr we all know and love.

I agree Falcon. I too am happy with the old guys present situation, although i would like to see alittle more output from Izzy. It will be interesting to see what Axl has done without them . These topics will be alot more interesting if Axl ever gives us something to compare too.

Lets not start this again, we all know that was slashs idea to bring in the back up singers and the horn section on tour. Slash even said that himself in an interview. Why do you always claim this was all Axls idea when it was not. I proved this before yet you keep claiming it was all Axls idea. slash suggested it, Axl thought it was great and agreed.

Also Adlers civl war was pieced together from 100 takes or something like that. He was too drugged out to be any good. If it was the clean steven, then that is a different story.

Someone mentioned if Steven had played on the Illusion records instead of Matt if it would have changed the sound. I definitely think so , Matt is a great technical drummer but his playing was so robotic on the Illusion records, it definitely changed the sound of the band. I think if Adler would have played on them it would have been a big difference, his style fit with the band more so than Matt's.

Adler was very replaceable. I think Sorum was perfectly capable of handling those parts and he did it very well. Civil War was far from the best track on the UYI records IMO; even if it is considered strong, it wasn't the drumming that made that track memorable.   He was very good but not without a worthy contemporary.

and yes, I have read how Slash encouraged and recruited the back up musicians for the UYI tour. It wasn't solely Axl's idea. You erroneously pin blame on the redhead for the bloatedness of the tour.

The leg of the Illusions tour with the whole entourage was definitely bloated. The Skin and Bones leg was much better. That is what they should have put on video. :yes:

They also had izzy for that leg didnt they?

I am not sure, if i remember correctly that was toward the end of the tour . I could be wrong. Not to sure.

Madagascar and The Blues, not released. Coma, I don't like it. November Rain and Estranged, without Slash's guitar parts the would SUCK

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

I think Axl Rose is a fucking genious and I think he would have been somewhat successful on his own. But to the level that GnR was at, without Slash Duff Izzy Matt and Steven, No fucking way.  :peace:

wow, I actually have the exact same opinion as you on those songs! :peace:

Edit: I regret saying I have the exact same opinion. I don't think NR and Estranged would have sucked without Slash, they'd still be ok songs, but nothing more than that. Slash made the songs several times better for sure!
same goes for SCOM, that songs would be pretty poor without Slash's playing.

I like those songs but i never find myself listening to them becasue i find them to drawn out you know? Espcially live versions where it goes on for like 10/12 minutes.

Lets not start this again, we all know that was slashs idea to bring in the back up singers and the horn section on tour. Slash even said that himself in an interview. Why do you always claim this was all Axls idea when it was not. I proved this before yet you keep claiming it was all Axls idea. slash suggested it, Axl thought it was great and agreed.

Also Adlers civl war was pieced together from 100 takes or something like that. He was too drugged out to be any good. If it was the clean steven, then that is a different story.

Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour. Slash never got on stage with the Rolling Stones so the idea could not have just come to him from out of no where. The Rolling Stones had backup dancers and horn players. It was also not Slash's idea to bring in 3 guitarists, 2 keyboard players to GNR, that's obviously Axl's ideas now that he has a band that had 8 players in it. If I recall, Steven Adler always had his nuts punched by Axl Rose in disagreements. Steven and Izzy were the only t wo guys who could stand up to Axl. the difference with Slash is that he couldn't. He's got the shy laid back approach to things and there was no way he was mentally capable with arguing Axl off the idea of getting the big band together for the UYI tour. Axl was also the member who made the contract that gave him the GNR name at  the beginning of the UYI so that the other members couldn't superscede him in major decisions made on the band. Yes, Slash did a great job getting the band together for the UYI Tour in 1992, but that was something that he agreed to with Axl, reluctantly I suppose, but didn't think it would do that much to  the band at the time. Of course, only Slash, not Axl, openly expressed disappointment with this idea by the time Skin & Bones came out, which was one of the best legs of the UYI tour in 1993.

And whether POPCORN takes 5 or 100 takes (btw it was over 80 takes), the classic GNR drumming sound was there. Not that I hate that much on Matt's drumming, but Steven was the rhythmic drummer who added a whole life to songs that Matt instead made sound more grandoise, which certainly works on the epics of UYI like Estranged & Don;t Cry, but doesn't work on hard rockers like YCBM & BOB. & I'm sure we can agree that Civil War is one of the best tracks from UYI and that the smooth rhytmic drumming of Steven dind't hurt.

For those who think Steven would not have been a help on the UYI records had he been healthy, just get the bootlegs from the 1/18/1986 Roxy show and hear him on BOB. I'm sure that will turn a few heads on this board.

MNR

Agreed.

I've been asking for documentation about it being Slash's idea for years Mark and haven't seen a damn thing to coroborate these allegations.?

As I've always said, whoever was responsible for this incarnation should have been shot.

You guys have a really short memory dont you? I have posted this like THREE times already. I am NOT looking for the quote again.? Everyone knows that is was slashs idea and pitched it to Axl. So just give it up already.

And Mark do I want to start something? Grow up. You act like a 5th grader. And you are such a loser for having that ugly pic of your mug as your icon.

And Mark as for Adler did you even read what I said? I said if Adler was straight it would have been a different story.

Dave, I've asked you to produce thes quotes for eons and you always given me the same answer (see above).  As I've stated before, It's not that i don't believe you, I've just never scene the quotes to back up your allegations. 

Until you produce the statements to back it up, you're fair game.

It's debatable whether a healthy Adler would have improved those records, but the fact remains that the drugs and alcohol had eroded the man's ability to play to the point where he couldn't perform adequetely. Adler was a great drummer in the AFD heyday, but when it came time for the Illusion songs to be laid done, the man had long handed  his golden ticket to the valet.

I think you are also laying the blame on Axl a bit too much for the background players. In the Putterford book, it clearly states that Slash recruited most of the players himself. If he was so opposed to the idea but afraid to deal with the redhead, he might have not helped the effort. But clearly, as the book says, Slash was an active participant in the bands bloatification.

Like I said I already have in the past, and you are too dumb to remember its not my fault. I dont have to show you again. I am not looking all over the net for the quote again like I did the last few times.? You can think what ever you want but deep down inside y ou know that it was slashs idea.

I producted it a while ago so that is all that matters.

And lets just say for the sake of argument that you could not find a quote where the band said dont cry was the first song written in guns n roses, would that make it any less true? NOPE

Oh Dave, nice insult.? Are you sure you want to go that route kiddo?


Prove it or it remains open for debate.


I suppose that alleged pysche degree of yours allows you to know what I think "deep down inside".? Maybe you should use that alleged education on some self analyzation.


Where??

As I've said a bazillion times, I could give a fuck whose idea it was.  That said, if you insist on laying blame, you better back it up.

Of course he couldnt have made it, without the old guys, and we still dont know if he is gonna make it alone...


 ? ? ?@;---,----,--.-----.-------

I agree 100%.

Of course Axl's not solely to blame,  the others are just as guilty for letting it happen.

brilliant post Falcon, I love it? :rofl:

Didn't Slash reference in the Behind the music doco that Axl wanted the backing singers etc.. and the rest of the band didnt?

Slash must however (and Duff) take some blame for allowing this to happen. But it is clear for all to see that this was Axls influence, a further extention of his grandiose vision for Guns, turning his back on the dirty, raw sound that defined their early career

Yes slash said that on BTM but it was typical slash and he was lying. Just like Adler was lying about how guns n roses formed. Adler claimed that He and Slash went to see Axl and Izzy and said damn we need to go get those guys and we would make a kick ass band and they claimed they went out and got them which we all know is a lie.

Axl and izzy were in the band first, then they got Duff and Duff told Axl and Izzy he know two guys from a band he used to play in (slash and Steven).

So you want to believe Stevens version on BTM too?

Yep, sure did.?


Absolutely, they are as much to blame for letting that happen as whomever thought of it in the first place.


Still waiting on a quote from Slash saying it was his idea originally Dave...

Falcon I know how stupid you are and how fried your brain must be. But like I said, I have already proven this a few times and I am not looking for that quote again. I did a while ago and that shut you and your little cronies up, but now once again you claim it was not slash's idea. I really don't care that you want the quote.? I produced it before I am not looking for it again. Do you understand that or should I tell you in sign language? All those drugs you did, must have fried your brain like it did slash and duffs. People on this board said in this thread and in the past they remember Slash saying this. So get over it already.

Again with the insults, someone with your deep phychiatric knowledge shouldn't take things so personal.

Again, where?? Just link it to where your posted them here.


No you didn't, I kept asking for a quote from Slash saying it was indeed his idea and you never produced it.

And when did I exactly get "cronies"??


I never claimed that.? I just asked for slash's quotes taking responsibility.


Again, where?


I fully understand you refuse to post a quote backing your allegations, isn't there a phsychiatric term for
one who says things things that either aren't true or they can't base in fact??

Oh ya, dellusional.


A cop friend of mine always told me "When guilty, always deny and make counter accusations."



People on this board also said they saw Slash place blame elsewhere on BTM, so? the fuck what?

Actually Dave, all that youve done is use the same excuse (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=15389.msg273422#msg273422).  : ok:

Keep up the good work Falcon, always great to see you posting.  :beer:

is that booker floyd???

holy cow let me rub my eyes...where the hell have u been?

i kinda missed u

The whole thing with this is, that as Slash said in the BTM doco, he wanted to "keep the fucking thing going".

It is clear that prior to  the Illusions tour, Axl essentially gave the band an ultimaum (which was tantamount to blackmail) - total control or the tour/band is off. With their livelihoods at stake, they chose to continue, while putting forth a united, public front that they were on the same page as Axl. This would be the only context in which Slash would claim he put that backing band together - ?to go along with Axl and at least publicy show a united "band" front with him.

Slash is the same guy who had reservations about Dizzy, a mere keyboardist, coming into the fold. He has always proffessed a love and a work ethic for back to a basics style rock n roll.

however it was Axl who loved Queen and Elton John and had grandiose visions for GN'R as opposed to Slash's idea of GN'R as an honest rock n roll band. When you look at it rationally like this, can you really put your hand on your heart and claim that Slash was the reason this bloated period of GNR exists?

Booker  you were even posting in the thread where I proven it. Its ok, you know that I am right, and its fine. It just shows how you have no class and cant admit that I have shown the proof in the past. And you can point to what ever thread you want. I have found the quote before and Im not finding it again.

I just love how you keep showing how classless you really are.

The return of Booker Floyd, this almost deserves it's own thread ?: ok:

Great to see you back and posting as well :beer:

 this place just got a lot smarter. :yes:

gotta agree with that - the most logical, reasoned posts ive read here  :beer:

If Slash and company had any balls or brains at that particular time they would have told Axl to go fuck hismelf and ended the show right there. Do you honestly think Axl would have ended GNr if they didnt sign? and EVEN if he did, who would be looked upon as the biggest asshole in music? Axl not the band. the whole thing would have been pinned on Axl.

Axl saw the car wreck coming and he wanted control over the situation. Hes that type of person. I highly doubt Axl the future of GNr to be soley about himself. But when the time came and IF the old band split, Axl still wanted the band name to be his.

BTW Booker and falcon.
This is not the quote, but this is coming from a slash fan who even knows that it was slash's idea.
Someone unbiased and not even in this thread.


http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=post;quote=347358;topic=20327.40;num_replies=43;sesc=56be6013607d3aa846919449b5a362cb

You've spent more fucking time telling people you won't find the quote than it would have to actually find the fucking thing.

Brilliant.

F

I agree, Slash and Duff should have done what Izzy did, 've always assumed however, that perhaps Izzy was in a sound place financially where as those two could well have squandered their earnings at that point

Exactly why Slash and Duff must take some responsibilty

However, I still feel it's ludicrous to lay the blame for that period on Slash

Now you're quoting other posters to vaildate it was Slash's idea?

You're kidding, right?

Nothing during that period should be blamed soley on 1 member. Each contributed to the demiise of the old band.

Falcon because you cannot understand the fact I am not going to look for it. The site that ?had the interview is not online anymore, so im not looking anyfurther. But like I said, look at that slash fan from ?another thread, even he knows that it was slashs idea. So stop your crying already.



Like I said that is just another person that read slash say that it was his idea.

Its funny that a poster on this board that is a huge slash fan, said he also read that yet you still dont believe it.
But you have no class and wont admit that it was slash's idea and that is fine.
Keep being? yourself, its fine with me.

youre right, they all contributed, some more than others it would seem

It would be fascinating to hear Axl's whole story, a shame he pulled out of the RS article

It will come out eventually if/when CD comes out. Im sure he'll do a couple of interviews.

I understand that fully. ?

Do you understand it's open for debate until a slash quote is in fact produced and vailidated?

Do you? Do you really understand?


Ya sure, ok.

Hey, wait a minute, couldn't that quote also be found here if it were ever posted?

Hmm..

Again, so the fuck what?


No crying here, just asking for proof of an allegation.

Once again, Slash recruited the players. If it was a bad idea, I doubt very much that he would have handpicked the players. To blame the expansion of the touring band on Axl simply is revising history.

im just speaking in general...not the whole who picked the horns thing.

I do remember reading the point about Slash coming up with the idea for the horns. I also think one of the players was Duffs sister

he may have hand-picked them as you say, but i doubt very much it was his idea - there are obviously conflicting accounts of this

I would venture a guess to say that after Axl made his ultimatum, he sweetened the deal for Slash somewhat and allowed him to "hand-pick" the horn players, backing singers etc... it is not an idea that is consistent with Slash's whole musical approach for the last 20 years. I re-iterate, this is an assumption on my part and is no way being stated as fact.

You argue like a kid.  ::)

who cares if GNr used horns for a period. It was only for a leg of a tour. They had the balls to try something different. Did it work? FOr some it did, for others it didnt. After that they stripped it down and went back to bare min. Just a stage in a bands career.

LOL!

Don't forget, a kid with a degree in psychology. :rofl:

EDIT: Or quite possibly a kid with a degree of psychosis. :yes:

Falcon so how many peope have to tell you they read the same article where it was slashs idea first? You can be a wise ass all you want, it does not change the fact that it was slash's idea.  :hihi:

How many people have to tell you they saw Slash put blame elsewhere on BTM?

Oh ya, Slash is a liar.? But then I guess if a quote from slash was indeed found and documented he would have been lying about it being his idea in the first place, therefore admonishing him of all guilt do to his habitual lying, right?

Again, I never said it wasn't Slash's idea, do you fucking get it??

Seriously, do you fucking understand that?

Again, I don't give a shit whose idea it was, Do you fucking get that?

All I've asked for is a documented quote from Slash saying he originated the idea , do you fucking understand that?

he may have hand-picked them as you say, but i doubt very much it was his idea - there are obviously conflicting accounts of this

I would venture a guess to say that after Axl made his ultimatum, he sweetened the deal for Slash somewhat and allowed him to "hand-pick" the horn players, backing singers etc... it is not an idea that is consistent with Slash's whole musical approach for the last 20 years. I re-iterate, this is an assumption on my part and is no way being stated as fact.

sorry, Im not sure I understand why youve posted that here?

You are the one who keeps asking for me to find the quote, so you must really care, dont you think? And down boy, don't get your panies in a bunch. I dont know how many times I have to tell you, I am not going to search for it again. But people keep on backing what I have been saying, so you should really just? drop it.? Its so sad you are getting all huffy about this. Just get over it already and move on. slash is? a proven liar, and he always changes the facts around just like he and? steven did on BTM. Like I said just look at how steven said the band was formed, that was assbackwards.
And I know that you know it was slashs idea, you are just being immature about admiting it. Like I said you just keep showing your true colors when you know it was his idea yet you keep asking for the quote.
Good night, I am done posting about this. Take a hint and just drop this, and move on.

Nice cop out kiddo...

Take a hint, document your allegations or be prepared to deal with the questions.

 

I very clearly remember Axl saying at the time that the horn section was Slash's idea (he didn't mention the backup singers though, which was the worst part IMO). He even said something to the effect of "I can't believe what a great job he's done putting that band together". Unfortunately I don't have the right magazine at hand.

Yes I know, you all want a Slash quote, because an Axl quote doesn't count, right? I personnally don't see the reason why Axl would give credit to someone else for an idea he's very satisfied with, but then again maybe I'm just a "fanboy" swallowing everything Axl shoves down my throat  : ok:

oooo..... that was kinda......sexual ;)


also, isnt it harder for a *singer* to go on solo albums ?
i mean, i know he plays the piano. but a singer needs a strong band. i dont think axl's singing, with me on the guitar would render well ...

from what Ive heard, it was Axl's idea to have the backup singers and the horn section, and Slash got the task of auditioning and picking out the singers and hornplayers.
sorry I can't point to any evidence, but it was Slash himself saying it.

I really can't see a rnr type of guy like Slash wanting to have all that crap on stage with him. but considering Axl's incluences and such, I can see him wanting it.

Drop it already-they probably both decided on it! Who gives a shit? Axl said one time on MTV-I HAVE THE FUCKING TAPE OF THE INTERVIEW- that HE/THEY wanted to make the show bigger like the Stones. Thus, you have horn players and backup singers and keyboard players. Both guys had to agree on it so they both should be blamed!! :beer: :beer: Get over it.

You have only to listen to Axl's own words for the answer to that question:

(From the Nov 8, 1999 interview with Keith Loder)

Loder: What have you been doing for the last six and a half years, since the last tour ended?

Rose: Trying to figure out how to make a record.

Loder: Ah, you already knew how to do that, right?

Rose: I originally wanted to make a traditional record or try to get back to an "Appetite [For Destruction]" thing or something, because that would have been a lot easier for me to do. I was involved in a lot of lawsuits for Guns N' Roses and in my own personal life, so I didn't have a lot of time to try and develop a new style or re-invent myself, so I was hoping to write a traditional thing, but I was not really allowed to do that.

Loder: What prevented you from doing, like, a traditional rock record?

Rose: Slash.

Loder: [Laughs] But you could have found another guitar player or something, right?

Rose: Well, not really.... Not to make a true Guns record. It's kind of like, I don't know, if you know somebody has a relationship, and there's difficulties in that, and Mr. or Mrs. Right doesn't kind of just stumble into their path, or they don't stumble across that person, they can't really get on with things. Somebody didn't come into my radar that would have really replaced Slash in a proper way.

That, to me, says it all.  Without Slash (and, IMHO, as importantly, Izzy), there would be no AFD and no Illusions.  At least not in anything remotely close to the format that we have now.

However, that's not to say Axl wouldn't have been successful without the rest of the guys.  He has talent (just as the rest of the old band does).  I think he WOULD have "made it" with a different set of guys behind him, but the creation would have been vastly different (as you would expect). It may NOT have been as successful as the old material is/was, but it would have been successful all the same, IMHO.

I don't have any evidence in hand either and I don't know if it was true but I've read somewhere that it was Duff who brought in the backup singers.

I see nothing wrong with the idea. Why the fuss?

Anyway amen to madagas. :peace:

A fucking ridiciolouse topic. everyone who has even a bit brain knows the answer

What pray tell is the answer?

no I think that was the horn section, I think Duff's brother had something to do with that horn section. or was that for an album?

I think Duffs brother played on Move to the City on Live like a suicide/GNR Lies

yeah that's it. but didn't he have something to do with the 976 horns? is that the right name?

The movement WILL be Axl. Haha. No but I totally get you man. I could see Axl changing a bunch of songs if a certain style got big. Maybe not the big ones.. but the smaller stuff.. and then the album would be due in '06... or '07... or.. well you get it. And if Nirvana made it in '90 Illusions would probably be close to the same.. but I think UYI2 would be less bluesy. O well... GO AXL!