Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I thought it would be fun to compare the musicianship of these two bands. The way this will work is that I will compare each position (Lead Singer, Lead Guitar...etc), in both VR and GNR and comment on who the best player is. Let me remind you that the following is just my opinion and it is in your power to disagree with me. Here we go:

Lead Singer - (Axl Rose vs Scott Weiland) - No contest here, Axl takes this battle hands down. Don't get me wrong. I think Scott is a great singer, but Axl is perhaps one of the greatest front men of all time.

Lead Guitar - (Robin Finck vs Slash) - Once again, these are two great musicians but I am afraid that Slash wins it. No one can combine melody with hard rock licks like Slash can.

Rhythm Guitar (Richard Fortus vs David Kushner) - this one's kind of a toss up. I would have to give it to Kushner since he played with Suicidal Tendencies.

Bass Guitar - (Tommy Stinson vs Duff McKagan) This one is suprisingly close. I love Tommy's bass line on The Bluse, but in the end I think McKagan wins it. The bass line in Rocket Queen puts him over the top.

Drums - (Brain vs Matt Sorum). This one is close too, but I?d have to give it to one of my all time favorite drummers, Matt Sorum. His work on the Illusion albums (Especially Coma) was really amazing. Maybe once CD comes out, Brain will impress me as well.

Keyboards - Since VR doesn't have a keys player, this one goes to Dizzy Reed by default.

And the totals are: GNR 2 - VR 4.

These are just my thoughts; I'd like to hear some of yours.

Ben





 

i agree with them all, but i think axls presence is so huge it honestly takes over more than two of the members of VR by himself

Lock in T minus 10, 9.....

axl. although looking at this objectively, this is close due to axl's inability to be a good leader of a band (and that's really saying something when scott fuckin weiland is significantly better than someone when it comes to showing up, making music, etc.)

slash. no question.

fortis. gnr improved greatly when this guy came on board. was never a fan til then and i wish i had noticed him years ago.

duff. this one's close, but i prefer duff's influences.

matt. i think brain is a weak link in the new gnr.

i prefer no keyboards, so VR gets the nod here.

VR ? 4
GNR 2

If you have nothing interesting to say, then don't clog up my post with your inane coments.

I agree Sandman, I prefer no keyboards.

Brain is a much better drummer than Sorum, we just havent got to hear what he can do on a GNR record properly

U dont play with Primus and Buckethead if u arent amazing.



here is the ranking system and the fair way to do it

Axl
vocals 10
apperance 8
style 8
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 10

Scott
vocals 8
appearance 8
style 10
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 8

Axl wins 56-54


guitar

Slash
stage presence 10
energy 8
ability 10
cool factor 10

robin
stage presence 8
energy 8
ability 8
cool factor 7

slash wins 38-31

Dave
stage presence 5
energy 10
ability 7
cool factor 7

richard
stage presence 6
energy 10
ability 8
cool factor 8

Richard wins 32-29

Duff
stage presence 8
energy 8
ability 7
cool factor 8

Tommy
Stage presence 8
energy 8
ability 9
cool factor 7

Tommy wins 32-31

Drums
Matt
ability 8
presence 8
energy 8
cool factor 0  just kiddin 7

Brain
ability 8
presence 6
energy 8
cool factor 6

matt wins 31-28

so far overall

VR 183
GNR 179

once CD is release we will reevaluate

Well, I'm not sure that one can compare Axl's style from the 80's to Weiland's style today.  Back in the day, no matter how funny it looks now, Axl had style.  Of course, in Axl's most recent outings he hasn't exactly lived up to that.  I would probably equate that more to the fact that he was out of shape rather than losing his sense of style. :hihi:

So basically you're saying you like the old GN'R lineup.  : ok:

I totally agree on Axl.

Lead Guitar - (Robin Finck vs Slash) - They are too different to compare..

Rhythm Guitar (Richard Fortus vs David Kushner) - No contest: "basically, Richard's the guy that we always were looking for." Axl Rose.

Bass Guitar - (Tommy Stinson vs Duff McKagan) Duff is very great, but Tommy is on a superior artistic level. Absolutely.

Drums - (Brain vs Matt Sorum). This one is close, great Sorum on Illusions, but Brain worked amazing with Primus.. however, they are a lot different, is difficult to compare.

We are going by today

Axl had style back then, but he definitely gets low marks for the braids,oversized jerseys and workout pants.

late 80's early 90's he wouldve had a 10

2002 he gets a generous 8.

I agree with D. Old school GNR, not many bands on the planet could beat. 

Nu Axl may lose to Weiland because in a live setting, Weiland can sound amazing, where as a live setting for Axl can be a total debacle, see MTV awards.

Scott
Slash
Fortus (barely)
Duff
Matt
 
4-1 in this one. 

However, if axl returns to his old style (pre illusions) he will be the winner.  He has more talent, better studio voice, better lyrics.  However, Weiland, after rose, is the next best frontman of our time.  Blows vedder and cobain away.  I can't think of anyone else post 87 that is better.  Ian Atsbury is good, but not as famous.

In the new millenium, Weiland puts botaxl to shame & that's putting it nicely.

finCk is nothing more than a gnat on Slash's morning shit.

Dave Kushner played with Suicidal Tendencies. Meanwhile, dick fOrtus fagged it up with N'Sync. That about sums it up for me.

Take your pick with Tommy & Duff.

Sorum's always been a little heavy handed for my tastes, so I'll go with Brain on this one.

To be honest with you, i have no respect for Matt after his comments towards Axl and November Rain on the VH1 special.  He obviously doesn't know good music.     

D, you give Kushner a "5" for stage presence?... You need to watch Slither at Live 8 again!

Dave got a 10 for energy

stage presence is when u are the man, for instance at the VR show I couldnt stop lookin at Scott, thats stage presence

Im sure not many go to a VR show and say, "I cant wait to see Dave" know what im sayin?

he gives great energy but not many are gonna watch him over scott/slash etc.

thats why he gets a 5 for stage presence.

I give my rate of gn'r and vr of nowadays, I speack about the 2000's not the early 90's.

Axl
vocals 8 (10 back in the days)
apperance 5 with the braids - 8 without (10 back in the days)
style 10
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 10

Scott
vocals 7
appearance 8
style 7
presence 9
energy 7
lyrics 7

Axl wins 53-45


guitar

Slash
stage presence 10
energy 9
ability 10
look/cool factor 10

robin
stage presence 8
energy 7
ability 7
look/cool factor 2

slash wins 39-24

Dave
stage presence 5
energy 9
ability 8
cool factor 7

richard
stage presence 8
energy 10
ability 9
cool factor 10

Richard wins 37-29

Duff
stage presence 9
energy 8
ability 8
cool factor 10

Tommy
Stage presence 8
energy 9
ability 9
cool factor 8

Duff wins 35-34

Drums
Matt
ability 7
presence 7
energy 7
cool factor 7

Brain
ability 9
presence 6
energy 8
cool factor 6

Brain wins 29-28

Dude u are so biased its not even cool


Scott a 6 for energy? u have obviously never watched Scott Weiland perform in your life.

Scott's got style by the truckload as well.

Axl's braids and oversized jerseys get a 10 for style? but Scott's kick ass leather outfits get a 7?

I modify my judgment: 7 for scott instead of 6 for the energy (I saw VR live)

and

the look is part of the "apperance" thing for me. so don't worry scott is a better good looking guy than axl today (but axl destroyed him back in the days) The style is the moves, the dance, the kind of frontmen they are, and axl is fantastic whereas scott is good but not mind-blowing..

I agree on Axl, well, 80's and 90's Axl. Mind you, the 2002 shows Axl was pretty good also. Wins over Scott purely on vocal ability.

Lead Guitar - (Robin Finck vs Slash) - Slash, but also agree on the fact that they're too different.
                     ( Buckethead vs Slash) - is a difficult one. emotionally, Slash gets it, but on technical superiority, Bucket is          the man. Not that it really counts, since he's no longer in the band.

Rhythm Guitar (Richard Fortus vs David Kushner) - Richard.

Bass Guitar - (Tommy Stinson vs Duff McKagan) Duff.

Drums - (Brain vs Matt Sorum). Brain. He may be an ass sometimes towards the NUGNR and Axl in particular with his little comments, but I reckon on ability he can kick Sorum's ass anyday.

this a very elaborate thread for either bashing the current lineup or bashing scott.

To each his own, debating a ranking system for "coolness" of each member, you might as well try and argue religion with someone.

There are no reasons why to compare, Velvet Revolver, with the new line-up of Guns N Roses, the answer is pretty obvious...    the old line up kicks ass.

           @;---,-----.----,-----------

It is hard to compare bands, one exists the other who knows but oh well.

Vocals: Axl and Scott are two of the best frontmen ever, when it comes to taking the stage and controlling a crowd noone can do it like Scott and Axl. They both have two very distinct styles so it is hard to compare especially since Axl hasnt been on stage . They are both two of the best ever. Presently Scott wins. Let's see if Chinese Democracy is released and see if Axl can keep it together.

Lead Guitar: Slash

Rhythm : I honestly havent seen enough of Fortus to compare the guy to anyone, i do like his style, and Kushner is damn good, i didnt think he was the best choice for VR initially but after seeing them live the guy fits perfect, and his effects are killer. Gotta go with Kushner for now, ill have to wait on the verdict on Fortus, hopefully he will be taking the stage for nu GnR soon.

Bass: I love Duff's sound , the guy is talented and a great musician. His influences and stage presence is killer. That is one thing I have noticed about the live VR shows? , Duff is right there with Scott as the star of the band. I gotta go with Duff all of the way. Stinson is cool and i like where he comes from. The Minneapolis scene was awesome, all of those bands where great The Jayhawks, Soul Asylum, Wilco, The Replacements etc. That is one thing Duff and Stinson have alot in common both come from great musical backgrounds, two of the best musical backgrounds in any band past or present, period.

Drums: Toss up both are total wise cracking jack ass', ill go with Sorum, his heart is in the right place, all Brain is in it for is the cash it seems.

Keyboards: Weiland, just for the fact he rarely plays them, no need for keyboards in rock.

I think the doors, stones, beatles and queen will all disagree.

I was not going to answer this thread but what the hell.
Vocals is Axl easily.
Lead guitar, slash is better than finck but BH is better than Slash
Rythm, Fortus is? better than Dave
Bass, Tommy is better than Duff, just listen to tommys solo album then duffs
drums, Brain is better- just listen to matts boring solos on the UYI tour then listen to brain with les, bh and bootsy. Brain is great.

Cool thread

---

Axl
vocals 10
apperance 8
style 8
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 10

Scott
vocals 8
appearance 8
style 9
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 8

Axl wins 56-53

---

guitar

Slash
stage presence 10
energy 8
ability 10
cool factor 9

robin
stage presence 9
energy 9
ability 9
cool factor 10

Draw (and I honestly did not plan this, I didn't know 'till I added) 37-37

---

Dave
stage presence 6
energy 10
ability 8
cool factor 8

richard
stage presence 5 (all he does is try his damned hardest to break a fucking hole in his guitar, settledown Fortus)
energy 10
ability 8
cool factor 7

Dave wins 34-30

---

Duff
stage presence 8
energy 8
ability 8
cool factor 9

Tommy
Stage presence 8
energy 8
ability 9
cool factor 5

Duff wins 33-30

---

Drums
Matt
ability 8
presence 7
energy 8
cool factor 4? (0 :hihi:)

Brain
ability 8
presence 6
energy 8
cool factor 3

Matt wins 27-25

---

Someone else can add it up if they want? :hihi:

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

Hard to make any objective comparisons for me, one's a functioning rock band with a record, singles and tour while the other is, well, not.

GnR's strenghts are Velvet Revolver's weaknesses, and vice versa. 

your kiddin' me, now he gets put down for goin' off :hihi:

Richard n' Robin are the duo weve been all waitin' for : ok:

sorum sucks, his drumming on illusions is lame

contraband he got a bit better though, but i think brain is better than him

quite a system you made there D, I liked it, even though I don't agree on everything there. : ok:

VOCALS: Axl vs Scott...Axl wins this one, like pointed out before, he's one of the best frontmen of all time, and the voice is amazing. Scott is fantastic too, but Axl wins this prize!

LEAD GUITAR: Slash vs Robin Finck...Slash is clearly the winner here, hands down. my alltime fav guitarplayer!

RHYTHM GUITAR: Richard Fortus vs Dave Kushner...this is a pretty close call, they are pretty equally skilled. but I like Kushner better, so he's the winner!

BASS: Duff vs Tommy Stinson...Tommy is a good bassist, but what about the opponent? Duff wins!

DRUMS: Brain vs Matt Sorum...I don't like the way UYI sound drumwise, but I love the way Matt sounds in VR. but he doesn't stand a chance agains Brain! Brain is maybe my fav drummer all together, so in other words, Brain wins!

so that places VR at the top with beating GN'R 3-2! :peace:

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but minus the Doors not one of the bands you mentioned had a "Full Time" keyboard player.

Yor answers really show your resentment toward the ex members.

How does it show resentment? You really think that Duff is better than Tommy? Its not even close. I said slash is better than Robin.  Also Fortus is much much better than Dave. How is that even close? As for sorum, everyone always say that Adler is better anyways.  And only one album of gnr has key boards, those are the UYIs, AFD and lies dont use keyboads.

About the drums: Steven Adler drums on AFD are FANTASTIC.

Vocals: Axl (Weiland doesn't hold a candle to Axl)
L. Guitar: Slash (Robin sucks)
R. Guitar: Fortus (Kushner is no virtuoso)
Bass: Duff (Tommy is just not my favourite)
Drums: Brain (Matt is too annoying)

GNR: 3
VR: 2

I find this thread comical.

Anyone on here who thinks that any player in New GNR (Bucket included) is better than Slash or Duff are smoking crack.

It doesn't matter what their playing abilities are because their musical catalogs don't equate to even 1/10th of what Slash and Duff acomplished with GNR.

I find it funny that Tommy is somehow a better bassist than Duff when he has never played on anything that would place in the top 10 of any GNR song ever written. Duff may not be as technically "skilled" of a player in the sense of the word. But at the end of the day I will take classic songs over technical ability any day of the week.

Bucket may be a more "skilled" player than Slash, but when his solo's show up in the top 10 of every poll ever taken the way SCOM and NR do, give me a call. I measure greatness in timeless music, not how many notes a second one can play.

You need to lay off the crack pipe. The question was asked who is better, player-by-player. So doesn?t that mean what person can PLAY better? Also, just because BH or Tommy?s work is not "known" does not mean its not as good. You really think never mind is better than AFD? Look at any shitty poll like you just mentioned and nevermind is always ahead of AFD so in your little world I guess that makes nevermind better than AFD right? OH and that poll for RS that had Kurt Cobain at #4 for best guitar player ever and slash was not even on the top 200, I guess that means slash is not as good as Kurt right?

Anyways when someone ask who is a better guitar player or better drummer or better bassist, they are asking skill wise not song writing ability. 

Read the question asked. The poster asked whom the better PLAYER is which means what person can play the instrument BETTER. So that means that BH is better than slash, brain is better than matt and Tommy is better than Duff.

If you want to ask who writes better songs than ask that question. But anyone who thinks that slash or duff are more skilled than BH or Tommy has no clue what they are talking about.

As for their writing ability, what have slash and duff written since leaving Axl? Nothing that even comes close to classic gnr. Nothing that is even better than the stuff on Tommy?s or BHs solo albums.
Also wait for CD to come out and I will be willing to bet that the songs Tommy, BH and Robin wrote will be right up there with classic gnr. Madagascar and the blues are in the top 20 gnr songs ever and they helped write those songs. So any point you have is invalid. Your logic is also very flawed.

Dave i think your wrong. I think most peoples translation of the thread was player by player means taking things like - style, skill precance, writing ability etc. etc. ALL into account. Not just pure skill. Hence why people are doing the tallys that looks like this -

vocals 10
apperance 8
style 8
presence 10
energy 10
lyrics 10

Therefore the above poster does have a point with Slash and Duff's proven success in writing and playing on all time classic songs. I do agree that id take Gn'R songs writen by Slash and Duff over anything any of the Nu-Gn'R members have done anyday.

Id like to add as well that the songs written by Slash and Duff with either very little or non of Axls imput are better than any of the songs that ive heard by the Nu-Gn'r members. I also disagree with this attitude of "Wait till CD comes out then youll see that they songs and writing will be amazing" - with the acceptance of 3 or so songs you you simply dont know that, its pure speculation. Its just like saying wait for VR's next album - itll have the best songs ever, and passing it of as fact. Finally - how do you know any of the members bar Axl had any writing input into the new songs at all? Or if they did - more than the old members did on the songs - of which you are and have in the past played down as insignificant compared to Axls contrabution.

The above poster has no vaild point if he is going to bring in known songs and lists.  Like I said, just because he does not like the work tommy and bh did, does not mean they are not as good as what he likes.  Skill has much more to do with who is better than what someone looks like or engery or anything like that.  Also, its all what you like or what your taste is for what song  you think is better but skill is something you can measure easily and its not contest when it comes to BH vs slash or tommy vs duff skill wise.  Also like I said, take duff and slashs solo work and its awful, while BHs and Tommys is much better and excellent.

Thats your opinion though - i happen to like Slashs solo work - ive heard some of BH's and think its terrible. Plus  skill has to take into account that little can be more. Alot of people would argue that for example Slashs simpler solos compared to BH's super fast tapping is far more soulfull and means something - that can also be described as skill. And finally - i know guitarists who are super fast and can play any song note for note - there still not great guitarists though just becasue they can play techincally well - to be great youve gotta have the ability to write and play timeless and powerfull songs - so far i dont see much evidence of that from any other the Nu-Gn'R members apart from the opinions of a small group of die hard fans. Tommy is probably the closest with his work in The Replacements. Still not the kind of legend that Gn'R have.

Dave, you've made it abundantly clear through the years that you  are not qualified to judge who has more talent than who-else.

Yeah I know because your little brain cant take the fact that BH is better than slash. Its ok tho,? I know to just ignore your little comments like that since? you have no clue what you are talking about.

and Lineker10 go listen to BHs electric tears, and if  you dont think that is soulful. If you dont think it is then you have never heard it.  And BH is is so much better than slash, plus BH can play more than just fast. He made slashs solos BETTER. Just listen to the night train outtro. Its better than slash ever did. Listen to BH play the KOHD solo.

I love when people like you claim BH just plays fast, it shows you really have no clue at all about him.

And this is the kind of post that people criticise you for. Its obvious through these posts you have a deep and spitefull hate of the old band. I dont know why as without them Axl would still be languishing in Hollywood Rose playing mediocre music. I dont understand how you can listen to the old music when you hate the people playing on it so much.

I respect alot of people in this thread but seriously, give it up all of you.

This discussion is pointless except for the inevitable hurt feelings that it will inflict. 

That is funny you point that  comment toward me and not people like providman, but that is the problem with people like  you,he and the others. But let me say this again, since some of you are really SLOW when it comes to this.

Anyone who thinks that BH is better than slash, or tommy better than duff etc etc always gets called names or people claim they HATE the old band because we think the new band is more talented. Why is that?

Do  you even READ what I SAY and not what you want to read? I dont think people like you do.  And if you read what I have said its 100% true.

You really think that anything slash or duff have done solo or in VR is better than anything they did with Axl in old gnr?

Also, I can think that BH is better than slash and still like the old band cant I? OH but with people like  you, I cannot. I have to think that the new band sucks or I cant like old gnr. That is the problem with people like you.

So people like you, providman and the rest need to move on and deal with the old gnr is never getting back together and that there are better players than slash, duff, matt and izzy.

As a whole the old gnr are hard to be matched but if  you take each one individually there are better players. How hard is that to understand?

I'll throw in my 2cents here as lame an idea as it is. For the record, the original Guns are untouchable and there is no comparison whatsoever until Finck, Fortus etc.. have a string of timeless classics that have infiltrated popular culture under their belts 10 years down the track

Axl vs Scott
In the day, no question, Axl hands down. Im hoping Axl can bring more to the table than he did in 2002 however, cos based on that, Scott has him pinned at the moment

Slash Vs Finck
An absolute no brainer. Slash, of all the original Guns, has maintained his seat at the table of legends and judging by the way he has been received in VR, he will be a lifelong member. Put simply, Slash is a genuine rock n roll ?icon for the ages, Axl was one, it's a question with CD of whether he can retain some of that.

Fortus vs Kushner
Im going with Fortus only because I prefer his vibe to Kushners. I felt Kushner took up too much space on Contraband and he stifles Slash a little I reckon. Fortus' schtick (ie. Izzy clone, kind of looks a bit poseurish) annoys me a little. A tough call.

Duff vs Stinson
I like Stinson, he seems like a smart player. But Duff takes this one out. Why? he was an original member of GN'R for chrissakes? He helped write some of the most memorable rock music the worlds ever known. Can someone really call themselves a Guns N' Roses fan and slag off the likes of Slash, Duff and Izzy? mmmm it's very strange to me. But I do like Stinson and like what Ive heard of his playing in GN'R.

Matt vs Brain

Going with Brain cos he played with Primus. Matts style Ive never really liked, a bit wooden and leaden, not enough groove for my liking. And he seems a bit of twat to boot

you're pretty severe with Axl. Even if I think the man has nothing to do nowadays with the untouchable and mind-blowing frontman he used to be back in the days (ritz'88, Paris'92), I still think he is a great frontman and is better than Scott. Axl has definitely more charisma and more aura than any other rock frontman today exept Bono and Liam Gallagher.

If he lost his anger, He hasn't lost his talent.

Here is the hypocrisy of a lot of people in this thread.  The people that are talking Scott over Axl are saying well Axl back in the day would beat Scott but now since I heard Axls 2002 voice Scott is the winner.   YET with slash and duff its like this. Well I like the vibe of Tommy and BH is really good but slash and duff win because they helped write AFD And some of the best gnr songs ever. So why is it that for slash and duff you are dealing with what they did the in past, yet for Axl you are basing it on his now voice, that logic makes no sense what so ever. 

We are talking about how these players are NOW not back in the day, but some of you keep switching because you know that Slash and Duff have done nothing good since leaving gnr and they are not better than BH or Tommy. And you can claim well Axl has not put out anything, well we have heard Oh my god, IRS, Madagascar, the blues, cd etc etc and those songs alone are better than anything that slash and duff have done sololy or in VR.

Im not saying you cant like BH over Slash or whatever. However what i was saying was that  your arguements - just like everyones are based on opinion e.g. BH's solos albums are better than Slash's - however you were/are passing them off as fact. I dont see how saying BH/Tommys solo stuff is great - Slash and Duff were crap is fact, because other people have differant opinions. As for people judging Slash/Duff on the past and not Axl - i think Slash/Duff are as good today as they were then. The main problem i have with VR is that im not a massive fan of Scotts lyrics. I also think the lack of Izzy hits some of the songs in a more melodic way. Slash/Duff havent really changed there style since AFD so i view them then as i do now - Axl however has severly changed his style, apperance and type of music. With him its much more like there two Axls - one back in the day and one now - i think thats why people judge him differantly.

How is a statement like "Slash and Duff have done nothing good since leaving gnr and they are not better than BH or Tommy" fact? Wheres the solid non opinionated proof for that statement?

What the fuck is your problem? Back in 2000 you were dancing to N'Sync and Backstreet Boys!

nah, those were points I made as asides Dave - look at Brain, I chose him right? Even though Matt played on Illusions which certainly contains some classics.
Your argument is flawed at any rate. heard of Contraband? it's done pretty well (double platinum, won a grammy, successful tours and singles) Duff and Slash play on those, and that was the Duff and Slash that currently have it over Tommy and Finck? - geddit?


Also Dave, read my posts properly:
"Slash, of all the original Guns, has maintained his seat at the table of legends and judging by the way he has been received in VR he will be a lifelong member"
not to mention:
"I like Stinson, he seems like a smart player. .... I do like Stinson and like what Ive heard of his playing in GN'R."

Coupled with this, I chose Brain and Fortus.
I'm being one-sided and hypocritical how?? ??? ??? ???

Just comparing them, its  a ... blasphemy, dont do it...

I just love the "Bucket's solo albums are better than Slash's and he's a better player" argument we have been hearing for years.

That may be true, but at the end of the day it is an undeniable fact that Bucket has never penned anything that touches the magic of SCOM or NR.

If you were a guitarist, would you rather have written 2 of the most timeless pieces of music ever, or be an obscure shredder that will be remembered for having a bucket on his head? If having more talent gets me the second distinction, I would much rather be a "hack" that is responsible for quite possibly the greatest riff ever written.

The same goes for Duff. What good is having more talent when you have never played on or written an album like Appetite or the Illusions? Duff will always get the nod over Tommy as a more talented and popular player because he helped write some of the greatest songs ever penned. If you were Duff, would you rather be thought of as a better player with a meager following and catalog, or be a "sub-standard" player who can take credit for helping write possibly the greatest rock album ever written?

This argument reminds me alot of the Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlin debate about who was the more talented player. Chamberlin was the better player, but Russell won 11 championships. 40 years later Russell is remembered as an all-time great winner, while Chamberlin is remembered as somone who couldn't beat Russell. Was he a better player, yeah. Did he bring home the hardware at the end of the day.......NOPE.

Tommy/Bucket may be better technical players, but in this argument Slash/Duff are the "winners" who produced championship caliber material despite their physical limitations. Last I checked, Tommy and Bucket were covering their material from Appetite, not writing it. Seeing as Appetite is the greatest rock album ever written, one would be hard pressed to explain how 2 guys who have not written music that approaches that album are somehow better.

Read my disclaimer at the bottom of all my posts.

My argument is not flawed,? yours is. Like I said you or others take into account that slash and duff played on AFD and UYI and for you that over rides their techinal skill, where as you said axl was great back in the day but is not as good as he used to be so you pick scott. You cant do it both ways. And who cares how contraband did or if it won a grammy.? Grammys dont mean anything since its all political as for album sales selling two million is not that great since the GHs album sold that many and its all old songs.





That is funny you mention NR and SCOM because if slash and duff had their way those two songs NEVER would have been written. Axl had to twist their arm to work on them and help write them. The intro of scom slash hates with a passion and always hated playing that. Yet you love to give them credit for it. The fact is, if it was not for axl those songs, solos and riffs never would have been made.

And what are  you going to saying if CD is BETTER than AFD, are  you going to admit BH and Tommy are better? Of coarse people like  you wont, you wouldnt never admit  CD is better than AFD even if it turns out to be true.

I think people like you are pathtic who get all bend out of shape when people think BH is better than slash and tommy is better than Duff.

Picked Scott, Duff and Slash for their work in Contraband TODAY

Side comment with Scott being that Axl wouldve kicked his ass back in the day - that is my opinion which was stated very clearly Dave.

You are irrational to the point of some kind of disorder dude

Dave go back and read alot of peoples posts and they were clearly being objective .  You say Slash or Duff haven't played on anything good since there days in Guns. Do yourself a favor and listen to the Neurotic Outsiders disk or Duff's Beautiful Disease or Loaded. If you can listen to those three metioned albums and not like one song out of the three albums your not much of a music fan.

As for Slash, i will agree with you there, his Snakepit stuff is pretty bad give or take a few songs.

I think Axl is one of the biggest assholes in the music industry , i am not going to let that blind me if he ever releases an album. If so i am going to buy it and if it is good ill say it is good. You let your animosity toward the ex members get in the way of trying to like some great music.

How is it pathetic when one camp has the greatest rock n' roll album on their record and the other doesn't?

Two of them have shown capable of writing an album that is heralded as the best of all time and has sold over 20 million copies, while the other group has never penned anything that is even talked about in the same breath.

To the lay person on the street, this would seem like a no-brainer. I guess every music magazine ever written must be missing the same thing I am on Tommy and Bucket because it always seems to be Slash and the original Guns in all the top 10 lists on there for guitar albums.

Maybe you should spearhead an internet petition to have them taken off of your 2 favorite albums because they are obviously inferior musicians if all they were able to come up with were the Illusions and Appetite. I mean compared to anything done by Tommy or bucket those albums are worthy of wiping one's ass with.  :no:

You are right contraband is never  talked about in the same breath as AFD so what is  your point?
And like I said but I guess you just cannot understand this, just because someone is not as mainstream as someone else doesnt mean they are not as talented.

It doesn't have to be. You seem to conveniently forget that Slash and Duff's guitar is on every GNR song released. They have shown what they can do. Critics and the public alike have praised them.

Tommy and Bucket have not, nor will they ever recieve the sort of acclaim for their music that Slash and Duff have. That is a fact.

What good is all of that superior technical ability when neither has ever produced anything that touches Slash or Duff's best work? Because no matter how much credit you want to give Axl for those songs, it wasn't him playing guitar on them. It was your 2 buddies.

BH doesnt get praise? Are you kidding me? Have you ever read those guitar mags like guitar world that he has been in? Did you read the praise and reviews for Tommys solo album??

I never read anything good about Slash or Duffs solo stuff.


I just love how its so hard for some of  you to believe that other people think BH is better than slash or tommy is better than duff.

You people need to get a life and get over it. Slash is not the best guitarist ever, and duff is not the best bassist ever, hell duff is far from it.

Dude your loyal i will give you that.

I have heard lot of good things about Duff's solo stuff. Alot of top notch musicians have listed Beautiful Disease as one of there favorite albums. Duff is a damn good musician period.

Like i said in my comparison with Duff , Stinson is a good musician and comes from a great musical background, but to compare him to Duff in GnR is ludicrous. All of those groovy bass lines Tommy plays so well in GnR were written by that bassist from Velvet Revolver who is not so good, actually "far from it".? ?::)

I respect your opinion nonetheless, i dont agree with it but that is what message boards are for. You take all of this "well Duff and Slash didnt even want to write SCOM" or they hated this or that. How do you know, hell for all we know behind all closed doors Slash and Axl have put there differences aside and are friends, i highly doubt that but hell we dont know. i dont care. I like the music . I really hope Axl releases this album and then we can all decide how good Tommy and the nu guys are in GnR on tracks they wrote, that is when this will get fun. :peace:

Axl vs Scott: Overall, I prefer Axl. As much as I respect Weiland, he couldn't compare to Axl when he was in his prime. However, Scott is now the better vocalist and performer.

Slash vs Finck: This one is a no brainer to me. Slash easily wins this one. Finck doesn't have half of the talent and "coolness" that Slash has. The guy also has a horrible stage presence.

Fortus vs Kushner: This one is a tough choice. I will call it a draw. I like both of them although now that I'm thinking, I like Fortus slightly better.

Duff vs Tommy: Duff wins this one for me. Tommy does nothing for me.

Matt vs Brain: Matt. Brain has never really stood out to me but maybe I just need to listen to him more.

How are you being one sided? Easily. Kushner was never in gnr, so you can throw that out the window. As for picking Brain over Matt. Most gnr fans perfer steven to matt, and I can bet if steven was in VR you would pick steven over brain, even tho brain is better than steven.

Most gnr fans perfer steven to matt, and I can bet if steven was in VR you would pick steven over brain, even tho brain is better than steven.



tell me, which drummer would you want Dave?
I take it you are a GN'R fan arent you?  ;)

Josh Freese.

And you really need to learn to read. Like I have said before, and read this carefully. Just because I think another player is BETTER than a member of gnr, doesnt mean I dont like the old band. How many times to I have to say this. ARE you that slow?

If I think Hendrix is better than slash, I guess that must mean I dont like slash or gnr. By your logic it goes.
If I think that John Bonham is better than steven or matt, does that mean that I hate the old gnr? By your logic? it does.
If I think Claypool is better at bass than duff, does that mean that I hate old gnr, by your logic it does.

See how dumb your logic and the people that think like? you is?

Godforbid someone thinks another player is  better than an original gnr member.
In that Cornel thread, the people that were saying that Chris can sing better than Axl, you didnt hear me say, Oh i guess you hate old gnr. Or for the people that think scott can sing better than Axl, you didnt hear me say oh you must hate the old band. No of coarse not because I am not deliusional like some of  you that think just becasue I think BH is better than slash or tommy is better than duff then I must hate the old gnr.

now, now Dave - no need to get nasty, take a joke already buddy and lighten up - you make yourself too easy a target with your flawed, inconsistent ramblings, but when you lack the ability to be lighthearted occasionally, you really lose points

Firstly Dave, I never stated that just because someone likes the old band they can't like the new.
I like Buckethead - I like Slash as well - case in point.

The topic was to compare "present day VR members with present day GNR members"

I like present day Duff (thats right, Duff in VR) over Tommy. Doesnt mean I dont like Tommy.

I stated Duff and Slashs (and Axls , funny you didnt mention that) rich legacy as an aside to the thrust of the point.

You need to learn to read, and furthermore reason like a discerning adult Dave.

Anyways,  :beer:

I get tired of repeating myself for ignorant people. Because you claim you are kidding when in fact a lot of people that use that logic are not.

U call me ignorant Dave? - you are proving yourself again to be a rude poster with little respect for other peoples opinions, it is sad that you can't refrain from name calling and just have a reasoned debate
very sad

axl vs.


who the hell am i kidding I WANT THE OLD GNR BACK!!!!!! come on  :crying: i want old rosessssss  :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:



 :smoking:Slash Rose :smoking:

the only current member of GNR i give any credit to is axl.

VR totally blows new GNR out.

all IMO of course.

Old GNR will get back together.  Do you not think Axl realizes the same sheot we are saying?  It would be like after Led Zepplin IV, Plant went off on his own with out Page, Jones, and Bonham yet still called himself Led Zepplin.  Know three guys could match them, just like no three guys can top the old GNR guys. 

well i think your listening but you cant hear dude........r' you serious

I shall repeat to you. Velvet Revolver totally blow GnewR away!!! Im very serious and yes i can hear what im playing.
You may have also noticed i put IMO.

People like you crack me up. You claim I don?t respect others opinions, that is funny since I gave my opinion then a few people jumped all over me for it. And name calling, that is funny since your boy providman started that. But of coarse you have to  point your finger at me since my opinion differs from yours. And the fact is, whenever someone on this board claims a member from the new gnr is better than the old gnr you guys go ballistic and throw a hissy fit.

Axl v. Scott:

As much as I hate to do this, I'll have to go with Scott. Granted Axl was on top of the world in GnR's hay day but what has he really done since 1994?? He released one poorly recieved single (poorly by everyone who doesn't frequent this board) and botched a "comeback" tour. Scott has released several hit albums in STP and since helped the success of VR. If we were going strictly by talent or possible talent if you left your mansion, then Axl would take it running away, but for now........ Scott

Slash v. Robin:

Slash. no explination needed. Better player, better vibe, more talented.

Slash v. Bucket:

Just to stoke the flame......... This was tougher than the slash robin battle, but still goes to Slash. I will jump on board with everyone that says Bucket is a better guitar player than Slash.... He is. But that doesn't make this battle for me. Sure Bucket is more technical than him, but to me there is no soul in shredding. I have all of Buckets albums (i do support everyone that has been in the band, I would prefer the original but if I have to put up with Rip Taylor on bongo's just to get some studio material from Axl I would) and they dont do anything for me. They are nothing more than a hidge podge of guitar solo's with and overload of synth in the background. There is no substance to his solo work. Granted he can play the fuck out of a guitar but so can 70% of the Students at the Berkley School of Music, and most of them will play to their largest crowd in the Park Street T Stop in Boston. You can rip Slash's Snake pit all you want, but the guitar work isn''t that bad..... It's the fact that the guitars for "Be The Ball" were put to a song about pinball machines. If those riff's were given to Axl, or even Scott, that album would have been 100% better. Also a guitar souldnt have more knobs buttons and switches than 1950's Mainframe. If you cant solo without 50 effects and cutoff switches than don't solo. I think that last point is why I love slash so much Les Paul + Marshall Stack + Very Minimal Effects = Greatest Rock Sound Ever *see also Jimmy Page*
 
Fortus v. Kushner: Izzy this si a tossup, but I'm going with Fortus, from what I've seen of each there isn't a gap in talent. But Richard just has the "Guns" look and sound...... Kushner uses to many effects for my liking.

Duff v. Tommy: This to me is the most even....Style, sound, Background. I could get on board with someone picking either of them. but if you bring it down to Replacements/solo versus GnR/Solo/VR   Duff Wins........ But I'm going draw (after all GnR has 2 keyboards and had three guitars, why not 2 basses?)

Brain v. Matt:

Brain has the more diverse body of work, and seems to be more technically skilled. But I disagree with most people criticism of him that he too heavy handed, ever here of John Bonham???? that guy drummed with tree trunks... that stytle works for people... but I still say Brain.

Dave - if in the slight chance CD is better than AFD and sells shitloads of copies i  would be the first to admit it. Or i could just do what you do with VR and say - "So what if the album sells millions, they have sells out tours and win grammys its still rubbish". Lets face it - if CD acheives that kind of success youll be the first parading around how the millions of sales and sell out tours mean that Nu-Gn'R is great.

cool it jimmy, you already won this debate a couple of pages back.
it's not your fault dave can't let go. :peace:

I agree, except for Tommy Vs Duff, Tommy is not only a great player, he's a great songwriter. So I take Tommy over Duff.

My vote

Axl, Slash, Fortus, Stinson, Brain, Dizzy

Mysteron,I couldn't agree more
That is a very serious band and capable doing almost anything
What a pity we won't see or hear them

Except one,Finck over Fortus  - that's the band that I would like to hear playing and we got a winner for sure :hihi:

ahh.. youre right, no use banging ones head against a wall is there? :P

there ya go! : ok:

I said two million copies is nothing, and its not. As for the grammy, it doesnt mean anything. Look at who has won grammys over the past 5 years. Its a joke.? CD will sell more than contraband did easily. But like I said, album sales dont mean squat at how good an album is. And the fact is, if CD went on to sell 5 million in the usa, the naysayers will just say oh its bc of the gnr name on it, and wont give axl credit for how good the album is. That is how people like? you operate.

Also AFD never won a grammy so does that mean that contraband is better than AFD? using  your logic, I guess it must mean that.

Also didnt jethrotul win a grammy or AMA over metallica and justice for all one year? yet we all know what album was better.

Man what are you 12? Get over it Robin is here to stay. Why is everything about looks with you? What are you like some boy band freak?  ::)

I think Robin is nicer than Slash. And Slash is a proven liar, and he can't play with soul anymore.

Singer: Since Axl has a few repertoire, but still he shows his class in songs like LALD and KOHD, and the new songs are somewhat good (I wish he could still sing CD like RIR3, without noises in his voice.) In the contrary Scott Weiland has a larger repertoire, but I feels he lacks something(lyrically.) I could say that it is a tie, but I stil think that Axl has the edge.

Lead Guitarrist: In this case Robin has few songs to prove something, but he needs the album released to prove his worth. Still I like his work on CD, The blues andMadagascar. On IRS, his solo seems fitting but lacking something. Slash in the other case has an album to show his class, however he comes really short. Still, with s coolness; Slash takes the lead position.

Rhythm Guitarrist: I really don't feel anything on Dave's work; however, I really like Richard's work on The blues , but specially on Madagascar. And if I count the great duo he forms with Robin, Richard takes rhythm position.

Bassist: This is the second position that gave me trouble, because I thought that the work that Duff did in Contraband was good. and I like Tommy's work specially on IRS. I say that anyone can win, but Tommy took my vote. So Tommy takes the position.

Drummer: I give the props to Brain.

keyboards And on Keyboards Mr. Dizzy Reed[/b]

Special Notes: The hardest position to come to a conclusion was Lead guitarrist, since Robin is my favorite new member and Slash is my guitar hero(reason why I started to play guitar.) I didn't include Buckethead at all, because he is not on the band anymore and I didn't feel anything on his work in the new songs. Well the beginning and end of his solo on IRS are good but the middle doesn't keep the consistency overall. His work on Nightrain is amazing, but that's all. I mean the guy can play and he may be the most technical guitarrist on GNR history; however it's nothing compared with the vibe of Slash and Robin, IMO.

I would start a "Do you like Robin Fink" poll just to prove that point wrong but it would probabley get locked immediatley

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

If you dont like him fine, but stop bashing him every chance you get. Hes a member of gnr, and Im pretty sure one of the rules here is not to bash members of the band. : ok:

how can people take Tommy over duff judging by IRS ,

god. duff is TEH coolest.
the new band has done nothing. so they're handicapped on this poll.

i'd go for

Axl (even if scott is very close)
slash (not a chance)
richard (even if i dont care, either one)
duff (not a chance)
dizzy


VR got very close to what GNR with axl could be. scott did his job.
while the GNR has not proven that they can replace slash and duff.
but i'll give them time. and we'll see when cd will be out.

For tommy we have his work in the replacements, his solo albums, plus IRS, oh my god, Cd, the blues, madagascar etc etc.

Tommy is better than duff, its not even close.

I love the way you say - "Thats how people like you operate" as if i hate Axl. Im just not blinded by love for him. The fact is that VR have acheived great success and you refuse to acknowledge this due to your hatred of the old members.

Back on topic my choice would be -

Axl - For obvious reasons
Slash - Just plain better than Finck
Fortus - I just think hes a cooler player than Kushner - Dave never really seems to do much in VR
Duff - For the punk vibe - adds a differant element, he also has that special "something" which great rock stars have. I dont think Tommy has that.
Brain - Im not 100 percent with this one, im not really a Sorum fan but im also not knowledgable about brains solo work - id go for Brain simply cos hes problably more intresting than Sorum.

If anyone is blinded its not me but the people who cant imagine that there are better players out there than slash, duff and izzy.

Tommy is the epitome of punk.....Lineker, you may need to check up on your rock history a bit. : ok:

I dont think people were arguing that the arnt better players - but better players for Guns - then i dont think so. For the Axl Rose band then - yes i think Axls got a solid group behind him, there all talented players, but in terms of Gn'R - i think the old guys were better. Now you may argue that Axl's band now is Gn'R - but in my mind Gn'R were a group of players who left each other for whatever reasons. I would think the same if it was Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy with a new singer going around calling themselves Gn'R - it just aint it.

And i wasnt saying Tommy wasnt punk. I said Duff was punk - i said i didnt think that Tommy had that special "something" that great rockstars have.

1 vote for dave-gnfnr2k on this one.

Except for the guitar.  bucket + finck > 2 slashes : ok:

But for the new guys, I wouldn't have taken much notice of VR, let alone purchased contra.
That album was good. I enjoyed it for a few weeks or so. It's typical of me.
My love for New GNR tunes lasts for 2yrs and counting. This is bizarre.

Also, just trivial matters but to my eyes the new lineup has massive cool factors beyond comparison. 
Each of them individually is an interesting character. E.g, Tommy is humble. Brain is mean, I mean, witty.
To add to that, they are good looking. Especially Robin, Brain and Tommy (=the everybody's type-ask any normal chick)  :hihi: Still I think BH presented the coolest appearance.  Well, Handsome is as handsome does.

If no one on this board knew that contraband had slash and duff on it, then i would be willing to bet most of those people would not like it as much, its that simple. Contraband is very bland. Also the madagascar solo alone is better than any slash solo on contraband.

See i dont think people have a problem with posts like yours, people saying - i think Nu-Gn'R's better. Its when people try to prove there point simply by slagging off the old members e.g. Slash/Duff's solo album sucked etc.etc. that i personally get annoyed. If your best reason for liking the Nu-Gn'R is that "Tommys solo album is better than Snakepit which sucked loads ands loads" - then your not really intrested in the band much are you?!

Such the hypocrite. So its ok to say BHs solo albums did nothing for me but when people say that about slash or duffs you get upset? wow. nice logic there bud.

The fact is, duff and slashs work is no where near as great as it was when they were in gnr with Axl. Yet Axls lyrics and songs are just as good and some are better than the old gnr songs.

when the nu-GN'R will sell 85 million records worldwide, then, some of you will be able to open their mouth. Until then, just shut up, because there is nothing to discuss and/or to compare with the original band...exept riots and cancelled shows.

No read the post again. What im saying is that you seem to simply prove your points by slagging off the old band. If anyone says anything bad about Nu-Gn'R you counter it by slagging of Slash or Duff. Its as if i went around saying - Im not a big fan of Dave Kushers playing in VR - but hes better than Buckethead casue his solo album sucked, everyone knows that blah, blah, blah! Why cant you just say - i think Nu-Gn'R and Tommy are better, not, I think Tommy and Nu-Gn'R are better casue Slash and Duff suck, there solo work sucks and theyve done nothing good since leaving Axl etc.etc. Not only is it only your opinion but its not really needed.

Linken you are just all in a huff because deep down you know that BH is better than slash and tommy is better than duff. Like I said with out Axl, Duff and slash are not as good. Axl  always brought out the best in them. Now that they are on their own they just do what they always wanted to do and half ass their albums.

Thats just pathetic Dave - i beat your argument so you again resort to doing exactly what i said you do - criticising Slash and Duff. You focus more on them that you do on the positives of the new band. For a man who hates the old band - you seem to spend a massive amount of time talking about them instead of focussing on the new band. Instead of saying - Tommys good becasue of this, this, this and this. You say - Tommys good casue hes better than Duff whos crap, has bad solos albums etc.etc. Very strange.

Yep, although I'd never compare his Minneapolis pop/punk existence to that of the original movement, he's still got loads of credibility albeit without much creative experience.

On the other hand, Duff had a more hardcore punk existence growing up and playing in the pre
grunge Seattle scene and he did do some time with the original punk guitarist Steve Jones in the Neurotic Outsiders..

Anyway, this whole thread is a bit goofy. ?Comparisons of "better" are still extremely subjective, especially when dealing with professional musicians and their methods/styles of creation and judgement of their finished product.

You didnt beat any argument. If ?you think that, the only person you are fooling is yourself. ?This is the NEW BAND BOARD so why is slash and duff even brought up here hmmm? ?This thread should be in the dead horse section but ?I guess the mods are on vacation or something. ?Tommy is a better player than duff, its that simple. And tommy can write some great songs. Duff wrote some in gnr but has not written any since. The same goes for slash.

You are just in denial that slash and duff are shells of their former selves while axl can still write just as good if not better, plus axl stll has the pipes in the studio. ?

Duff was never a good bass player. Tommy on the other hand is a very good bass player.

Your repeating the argument Dave - which is purley based on the fact that Duff and Slash are crap - its not based on the positives of the new band. Can i ask why you hate the old band so much - im willing to bet that you hate the band even more than Axl does.

Dave, you should, no, YOU MUST move your ass and go to see a VR show before bashing Duff and Slash. Who are you to judge them?

Where did I slag any of them?  ::)

When this board became the old band's worshipper's club.
Also I thought this was VR mens vs GN'R mens.

This is not the board only for those who jump on the bandwagon.

If you read my post then i never accused you of slaggin the old members. I actually said your post was good becasue you didnt simply just bash the old members. And this isnt the VR worshippers club - but since when has this board been based around bashing either band. My point is why cant people simply back up there arguements in a way that looks at the postivies of the people either in the old and new bands - not by simply slagging one or the other off.

No offense, but that's insane.? Both are more polished players than their drunken,drug addicted days in GNR.? Tighter and more focused by a long shot.


Better wait and see on that one, one studio song less the old guys is by no means a benchmark for objective judgement.



I was never a fan of Duff's playing, too clanky.? Tommy's no virtuoso by any means either.? Isn't there some article where Tommy praises Duff's playing?? In either case, Flea
has nothing to worry about...

Falcon, you're right....Tommy has more of a punk "spirit", but isn't like the original movement. The Mats were too melodic for that. After meeting the guy up close and seeing him perform by himself, he just has a coolness and presence of authenticity. He is not a sell out.

 

That's why I said Tommy was humble. : ok: while arrogant people don't improve themselves.

Ok, Lineker10. I misread your post as I read it after Nesquick's one.   :peace:

By the way, hate is often the recoil of love.
When I see anyone slagging off any guy of the old band I think of this saying.
Perhaps it's because of their deep affection for the old band.

Thats a nice way of looking at it.  :)

Unfortunately, the diehard Mat's fans and Mr. Westerberg think otherwise.  The mere thought of him having anything to do with GNR/Axl Rose screams "sell out " to them.

For me personally, it was a good move on Tommy's part.  It's allowed the funds to seek his artistic freedom away from the confines of his prior band.

It's narrowness of them, Falcon.

Since there's a bit of punk talk going, I'm gonna quote from John Lydon's interview of April 22, 1989

"When Guns 'n' Roses go on about it...what was that quote? Rock N Roll has sucked a big dick since the sex pistols- that band really have misunderstood us.  It was all about opening things up not closing things down, which is what they?re doing.  Its narrowness all this living rock n roll."

I don't know about 1989, But I think Now GN'R is all about opening things up.

Ta, jimmy.

That quote by Lydon had to sting, nothing like having a heavy influence call your band narrow.

OUCH.

Not sure about Axl's band opening things up these days.  Although the name itself carries great rewards,  the stigma of the name could prove stiflling as well. 

Guess we won't know until something gets released...

All  you have to go back and read the reviews for the 2002 tour shows, and most of they said pretty much the same thing, if you closed  your eyes you could not even tell it wasnt the orginal band playing  the songs.  And that was from unbiased reviewers.  The only bad reviews the band got were from the ones that didnt even see the whole shows, like the guy who based it on two songs and the other guy who claimed they played PC when they didnt.

I never seen them. I just saw them on MTV and you cant judge by three songs(parts of songs). I always have said Axl's performance wasn't great but the band did sound good. I dont think anyone has ever said the new guys aren't good musicians, they havent gotten where they are by being bad players by any means. I personally just like Duff, Slash etc's playing better . Tommy was great in the Mat's they were a great band.

The Replacements were every bit as good a band as Gnr was, maybe better (can't wait for these responses!). Falcon, sure the Mats fans and Paul think Tommy sold out, but the Gnr fans think Tommy is some session musician who was selling toner over the phone after failing to make a living with some no name band. What fans and the media think and feel has nothing to do with an artist's integrity. It is simply fanboy, biased opinion. Tommy has integrity, and I believe he really enjoyed recording with this band. His heart seems to be in the right place. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm a pretty good judge of character. 8)

Tommy seems like a genuine guy, his participation in Axl's project definately lends some much needed credibility.  That said, though I don't agree with them I understand 'Mats fans and Paul's point of view.  The thought of Tommy movng into the corporate rock world with whomever has to be tough to swallow.  Speaking from experience, I know there's still a faction of Cult fans who will never forgive Matt for joining GNR back in 1990 even though it was a great career move that had the blessings of Ian and Billy.

Unfortunately, there will always be those factions :'( I just stick to the rock-no labels. Good is good. Back on topic. My picks new Gnr vs Vr-I'll take Axl, Slash, Fortus, Brain, and Tommy. Old Gnr vs New Gnr (assuming Bucket will never come back and his parts are gone)-Axl (old Axl 87-91), Slash, Izzy, Tommy, and Brain. Just my two cents.? ?:-\

You're crazy, or tone deaf, if you think you could have sat in any one of those arena's in 2002 with you eyes closed and thought you were listening to the old band. Sure they were the best AFD tribute band I've ever heard, but there is a very large difference in the guitar sound and the amount of synth. For example back in the day (91-93) Dizzy is playing nothing more than bongo's on PC and WTTJ. In 2002 they had 2 people playing multiple instruments............ not the same sound........

Also where do you get this idea that Slash and Duff are nothing without Axl??
What has Axl done without them?? and don't start spitting out a laundry list of unpublished songs that less than 100,000 people have heard and probably less than 30,000 people even remember hearing between Jungle and Paradise City. You have no valid argument against Slash and Duff until Axl's band is heard by the public.

Also where do you get off ripping Slash and Duff's solo work, but yet hold up Buckets list of comercial disasters as the greatest thing since the Beatles White Album?? If you are using your opinion of a "better" album to tell members of this board that they are fooling themselves to think Slash is better than Buckethead then keep that opinion to yourself until you can back it up. I'm sure if you look at sales figures for the 2 Snake Pit albums it is probably a pretty similar number to all of Buckets solo work. Sure he is talented..... but like I said before, so is every kid who is accepted into the Berkley School of Music. That doesn't make them "better" than Slash. There is a difference between "Music" and playing a guitar. I could walk out of my office right now and find a kid sitting in the Park Street Subway Station in Boston that can play the hell out of a guitar and is probably more proficient that Slash...... yet there is a reason why he is playing the Subway, and cursing under his breath because I am the 10th person who passed him without tipping for his stunning rendition of the final scene from Crossroads with Ralph Macchio.

 

"it's all part of not being pigeonholed" 

Q; What's the difference for you between going out acoustic versus the full band with ACS and versus being a member of a band like GNR where you don't have full control?

"You know it's all part of a thing of not being pigeonholed. I'm becoming my own renaissance man. I'm fucking doing everything. And I like that; it takes the heat off of any one aspect and also keeps you creative and keeps you open to things. It's been really great for me. - Tommy Sep 04

Loder: People that hear "Oh My God," they might say that, "Gee, the new Guns is all this sound," but I think that what you're saying is that it's a bunch of different kinds of sounds.

"It's a lot of different sounds. There's some other really heavy songs, there's a lot of aggressive songs, but they're all in different styles and different sounds. It is truly a melting pot.
I go back to listening to Queen -- you know, we're still hoping to have Brian May come in and do some tracks, and I got a fax today that he's coming in -- Queen had all kinds of different-style songs on their records, and that's something that I like. 'Cause I do listen to a lot of things, and I really don't like being pigeonholed to that degree, and it's something that Guns N' Roses seem to share [with Queen] a bit. With "Appetite," even though it seems to have the same sound, if you really go back, you can pull all the little parts from different influences. That's not really the case by the time we're on "Use Your Illusion." People are kind of set in their ways. ["Chinese Democracy"] is coming from all over the place. "  - Axl Nov, 1999


No. but there're a plenty of hints, if you look around hard. 8)
In my opinion, John's comment was also meant to be a helpful hint for the younger men.
That interview was done before the release of UYI. Do you know whom he quoted? I don't.

I don't think Axl would have agreed on that. not being pegeonholed is the way of not closing things down, aye?
I guess his or Tommy's response to John's comment would be, 
"Geez, John Lydon had really misunderstood GN'R. It was all about opening things up, which is what we're doing now, and not closing things down."

It appears that the biggest difference in outlook on the band between Axl and the ex guys lay around  here.

Probably not. Furthermore, Snake Pit albums really don?t count as solowork compared to many of Buck?s solo-albums. Snake Pit was just another half-assed attempt of Slash to surround him with some musicians in order to recapture the glory of days long gone by. In other words?.it really wasn?t just Slash out there (it's a band you know?), showing what was left of him when it was just about him. Buckethead made it on his own, relying on nothing more then what he had to offer as a solo-artist, from age 16 on. So before calling albums like Colma and Electric Tears (which are highly appreciated by fans of the instrumental genre) commercial disasters (when comparing them to Slash?s non-existent body of solo material), make sure you know what your talking about. As a solo guitarist Slash has absolutely nothing on Buckethead. Yes, there is a difference between making music and playing the guitar, just as much as there is a difference between sentiment and facts. You don?t seem to be able to grasp both concepts.

-PEACE-

Not sure about any "helpful hints" on the Lydon comment, i think he was straight up taking the piss and didn't give a rats ass who he offended or influenced.


I don't think he would agree it all, although no band that emerged from the Sunset Strip in the mid to late 80's has survived the pidgeonhole and been allowed to move forward creatively with acceptance from the post grunge airwaves/media of the early 90's.

I don't think he would agree it all, although no band that emerged from the Sunset Strip in the mid to late 80's has survived the pidgeonhole and been allowed to move forward creatively with acceptance from the post grunge airwaves/media of the early 90's.



Faith No More & RHCP's come to mind as having accomplished that feat. Perry Farrell certainly had high points throughout the nineties as well.

Sometimes they use too much synth, the "new" YCBM and Rocket queen ultra-keyboard intros aren't serious. Same for "the blues", it was a FANTASTIC song at the begining, with a blues-rock vibe, but late 2002 it turned into an over-produced and boring massive synthe song.? Axl should really calm down with that, synthe is great but too much synthe is horrible. It's like sugar in yogourt. Would you eat a yogourt with 2Kg of sugar?? ???

Highly appriciated by a small group of instrumental guitar fans doesn't make things commercially successfull. What I am saying is that by Dave claiming that "anyone who thinks Slash is better than Bucket has their head up their ass" is a stupid comment based on his opinion.....He argues that Slash and Duff's solo efforts are sub par to ?Buckets (again opinion). I mearly stated that one of the only ways to determine "better" subjectively is album sales (hence the use of the word commercial, of course this doesn't explain "Cracked Rear View" by Hootie)........ and regardless of how amazing his guitar work is Bucket doesn't sell albums outside of the small group you described (Fact).

So I say (IMO):

Better on guitar: Bucket
Better for a band: Slash

Right now there a few hundred (guess) guitar students enrolled in the Berkley School of Music (home of Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, and that annoying John Maher kid). I'd venture to guess that 90% of them are "better" guitar "players" than say Angus Young of AC/DC. None of them will probably ever be as highly regarded as him.

not of those bands were what is called Sunset Strip bands. they are from LA though.

Exactly.

Though they are indeed from LA, none bare the stigma of the Sunset Strip.? None are associated with the likes Of The Crue, Poison, LA Guns etc.

You crack me up, and I think? you forget how sloppy the old band played their songs. The thing that you and others like yourself do is compare how the new band plays the songs live to how the old band played their songs in the studio. That is a huge fallacy that people like you cant seem to understand.

And I stand by what I said, Slash and Duff are not nearly as good without Axl and thier solo albums and contraband prove that ten fold.? For Axl the jury is still out, but from the songs we have heard like IRS, the blues and Madagascar, if those really are just the filler songs from CD then Axl is just as good if not better without them.

Madagascar is one of the 10 best gnr songs ever. Nothing on contraband or the solo albums of duff and slash are? even in the top 40.

As for BHs album sales, album sales have nothing? to do with how good an album is but if you want to open the door for album sales, Duff and Slashs solo albums were huge flops considering they used to be in gnr, while BH was always underground thus that is why his album sales are not as huge, PLUS BH puts out like 3 albums per year.

Buckethead is better at guitar than slash its that simple. I am sorry if you cannot accept that ,but its the truth.
You can say that slash writes better solos that is fine, but slash can not touch BH when it comes to ability.
Slash is a one trick pony when it comes to guitar playing while BH can play many different styles, and his solo albums prove that.

Ok here ya go. Listen to both bands backing Axl. You think the new band didnt play the old songs as good as the old band. I think you are just in deinal, and here is my proof.  I just took the RIR 3 version of mr b and the live version from the old  band that was on my computer.





New band
http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/audio/GNR_MrBrownstone_Rio01-newgnrdotcom.mp3


Old band
http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0997LM64V6S9C3CO8CVYAGCUOE


Now how do either of these bands backing Axl sound different? Listen to slashs solo, then the new bands solo.
Its pretty much the same eh?
Slash never played the solo just as it was on the album either. That is something  people like you always forget.
So what do you have to say now? Oh I know you must be done deaf.

Sure enough, The mr. punk seems to be another misunderstood character in the music world.
He was on about music's responsibility for advancing culture as well as his responsibility for the words.
I excerpt the parts that might be relevant to this and Axl's situation of today from the article.

the singer turns willfully sardonic, sounding off at a wide range of subjects centering around the ignorance and spite accorded to PiL by the press.

Lydon: "I can understand that a lot of people don't like music that attacks and confronts them, and makes them think about things they shouldn't really be dealing with, because life should be much easier, ha ha ha. As far as I know there is no God, there is no heaven, this all we have! I want to live it to the full.  There are things out there that consistently tell us we should be miserable, and I won't tolerate it."

"I work with this guy because I respect his lyrics," ponders McGeoch, "and he deals with things. If you can put it into the format where people have the option of thinking twice about it..."

Lydon: "The words count for a lot of situations in a lot of people's lives. And I know I'm not extra special, I know I'm just bog-ordinary-I'm just lucky to have the opportunity to use what I've got to make that clear."

Lydon emphasizes how he has always though of PiL as ?folk' music.  Does that mean music is responsible for advancing culture?

Lydon: "Always. Otherwise what we're doing is foolish, and a waste of time. I want to push everything to its utmost limits and then go further, that is the point of existence. I won't imitate and I won't be led, not by anything or anybody.  That's it. period.   When the Sex Pistols started, I said, we're nothing to do with rock 'n' roll. That's dead.  I meant that most insecurely and still do, I've it made it clear that there's a new way, a new approach, without all that old terminology."

Lydon: "I'm so sick of it, all this explaining, explaining everything.  That's what nauseated you, and quite rightly so. I'm used to being defensive, that's become the format! Nobody every talks t me like a human being any more, apart from my friends in the band.  John was getting onto that, and we almost had a bloody good row.  Which helps, so fucking much!"

And One more!

Lydon: "Over my house on the beach, a few times, I've been out in a boat, The dolphins come right up close, just looking at you-sometimes you can touch them.  That really puts you in your place!"

well, I dunno about you, but I can clearly hear a difference. even though the sound on the old band mp3 sucked.
Slash never played the solos the exact same way, but I can hear quite clearly if it's him playing or not. he's got a unique style, not easy to copy. I don't think they should try to copy it either, they're a new band, if they wanna get accepted as that they should play them with their own twists and turns. but any way you look at it, none of the solos Bucket or Robin has played on the old songs top the ones Slash did! and from what Ive heard of the new songs, all of them would have been better if Slash had played on them as well.
bit of a difference on the drums as well, Brain plays more of a funkyish way than the others.

Why do you persist on comparing BH to Slash. This thread is about comparing the musicianship of VR vs Current GNR. Last time I checked, your boy BH wasn't in either of those bands. So stop comparing them.

Anyways, you sound like an idiot cause Slash is way better then BH. Anyone can play guitar, but do they have the knowledge of how to write a hit song. We know Slash an Duff can write hit songs (see Appetite, UYI's, Lies, Contraband, etc..), but I don't know one song that BH wrote that is a hit. Sorry Dave, but I think you loose this argument.

Ben

BHs solo on night train blows always slashs. How can you even claim that no solo BH did tops slashs?
http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/shortclips/bhntrain.wmv

As for them sounding different they are not going to sound exactally the same but you strip Axls vocals and no one would know that it wasnt the old band playing.

Another cry baby that cannot accept that BH is better than slash.
And BH is g oing to be on CD and played with Gnr, thus that is why the comparison.

As far as the comment in '89, it was a definate knock.? Typical Lydon, God love him.

As far as the rest of the quotes, I suppose it might be relevent to Axl's situation now, but it's a reach for comparisons sake.? I wouldn't hesitate to agree if they actually came from Axl's mouth, but unfortunately they didn't.

You can strip away Axl and it isn't going to sound like the old lineup. The only player that plays in the same 'style' as the old band is fortus. Sure they play good renditions of the old songs, but tonaly they don't sound the same. No one with a with any kind of ear is going to confuse a 2002 show with a 1991 show. Finck and Bucket use 10 times the effects that Slash does.

And as far as the night train outro....... that is enhanced by the kill switch that Bucket uses. Yes he plays much faster than Slash, but alot of what he does are 'tricks' that he gets from that kill switch and his effects board.

yes, and he is the one who sounds the best. His guitar tone sounds killer. Really "Rock n' Roll", absolutely perfect for Guns N' Roses.
I can't wait to hear him play on the "Chinese Democracy" record, rythm, lead, accoustic, everything. I want to hear his sound, his vibe. He is the only guitarist who interests me in that new band. I feel nothing when I hear bucket the muppet show and goth finck.

Richard Fortus is the most precious guitarist in GN'R right now.

As a long time Sex Pistols fan, I can honestly say that I've very rareley known Johnny Rotten *not* to insult fellow musicians unless they played some type of reggae or "weird" post-punk non-sense.

And to stay on topic, my picks aaare... Axl, Slash, Richard, Brain, Tommy, and Dizzy. Yay.

Bucketheads Nightrain solo kicked ass. but no, I don't think it's better than Slash's. Slash just has the right sound and feel when he play those songs.

I guess Im no one, cos I would know it wasn't the old band playing! ;D

Lydon is pure comedy. I love the Pistols but for him to call Gnr narrow when his band only released one album with songs ranging from three chords in a pile a dust to three chords in a pile of dust is simply taking the piss. They were the definition of narrow and simplistic. Rotten has been more of a comedian/entertainer over the last 15 years than a musician!  He's a funny fucker though. :hihi: :hihi:

For sure, that's just what Lydon does. 

He did the same thing to Led Zep and The Clash back in the day and still does it to the likes of Greed Day today.  He's hysterical, a true provocator.

By far my favorite front man of all time, an electric, commanding presence both on and off stage.

yeah, I can't help but think Lydon and David Lee Roth have a lot in common! ;D

I don't know that D L Roth guy well but he sounds fun :puke: according to John Lydon.
From the same article,

Lydon "One of the few people who does anything worthwhile around here is David Lee Roth," he reveals. "He puts up money for warehouse parties. Also on a good night here you can hear the machine gun fire in the distance." He smiles and tucks into an evilly spiced dish with relish, oblivious to the glances the clientele flash at him.

Agree on what?

They are all from the same long article. Just to show you he?s not necessarily just knocking.

On the contrary, it might be typical of the guy to suggest something in his peculiar twisted way that doesn't strike you as too intrusive but as insult? "Take it or not is up to you"
Basically He's a cockney cucumber with a bloody sharp tongue.


No shit! His post pistols works are awfully great. PIL has released lots of musically wide and remarkable albums.
I personally prefer them to that Malcolm's great rock n' roll swindle.

Remember the shirt Tommy was wearing on  RIR show? (Hey guess what? I'm still on topic!.....sorta :D)

I'd agree Lydon's comments to be relevent to Axl's situation today if they were spoken
by Axl recently.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your point though..

watch PPBEBE-she's a cockney cucumber with a bloody sharp tongue-albeit, a little hard to understand sometimes! I'm going to remember that one "cockney cucumber".... :hihi:

Yep, a bit hard to interpret sometimes but that's ok, I dig her posts nonetheless.

"cockney cucumber" is an absolute classic ;D

Yeah, :no: I myself sometimes can't make out what "she" is bloody saying.
Hard cheese! :hihi:

Sorry dave but I would know anytime that it wasnt the old band playing.

I really dig Slash's solo in Nightrain, but I think not only Bucket, but the new band improved the song a bit. But not as much as My Michelle. I think Bucket did an awesome solo here, way better than Slash's one. Slash is still my fav, though. His solos on November Rain were awesome live, while I don't like the new band playing it. Same with Rocket Queen (with Izzy, of course).

But I don't agree with COma when he says Robin and Bucket uses many effects. Both used pretty much only delay/compressor/distortion/wha on GNR (Bucket used whammy sometimes, but the other stuff was only to his solo number). Same effects Slash used. The new guys don't need "tricks" to play GNR songs.

The solo in both versions sound pretty much the same style. My point my holds true that you guys bash robin and BH for not playing the songs and solos just like the album when slash never did either.

I agree  that Bucket nailed that solo; I really appreciated the contributions he made to a number of the old tracks. I don't enjoy Finck's work on the old songs as much; he butchered a large number of solos. If it were Bucket in his place, I think alot of the new band's problems would evaporate.

Wow! Are you sure you read my post? I NEVER bashed Robin and BH! In fact, I love Robin, love his playing, love his sounds! I even made a version of The Blues trying to play like him.

Please, read again my post. Or maybe you quoted my post for mistake?

Yes I quoted you by mistaken. I meant people in general on this board, diss BH and Robins solos because they dont sound like the album versions but slashs never did either.

fink blows & deepdown everyone knows it! The absolute worst guitar solo I've ever heard at a proper concert in my life was performed by robin finck prior to SCOM at the Moline, IL show in 2002. An absolute head scratching, crowd killing,  piece of shit solo. There's no way whaxl can ever tour as GNR with fink on lead guitar & it seems like he knows this.

the first time when I came to this forum I made a tread like this but it was closed unfairly!  >:(

It's strange that the mods haven't closed this thread. Anyway, since you all have created your 'dream line-ups', you can realize that all of you forgot about chemistry. Nu-GN'R is very weak when they're playing the old songs but they could be good with their own material since it's a very different band and the players' influences and style are nowhere near to the old ones'. (That's why Axl shouldn't be milking the Guns N' Roses name.) Brain is a better player than Sorum, but Brain is simply terrible on the old songs, he can't play them well. Fortus plays what he has to play if it's not to complicated he could have played as a tour musician for GN'R even in the old days. He's a professional session musican, nothing more, nothing less. Tommy's much more creative but he's not Guns N' Roses, not at all. Robin Finck... well, music for the deaf. Axl has an amazing talent in writing vocal melodies, he was the greatest frontman the world has ever seen, but now.. I don't know. His work on some of the new songs are brilliant (CD, Blues, Madagascar), but he has lost the power of his voice, he lost the lows, the raspy sound and can't handle the old songs. I hope he'll regain these when he really begins to work and tour, he'll always be my all-time favourite singer.

And VR... Scott is an amazing frontman but he's nowhere near to Axl in creativity. Dave is a sideman, I think he has a bigger role in GN'R musical direction than a lot of people think, he's not 'earth-shattering'. Matt is a very godd rock 'n' roll drummer and he became a strong songwriter, too, but there are better players in the music business. Duff... He's a very precoius player, makes the band thick, and he plays a decisive role in every band he plays, I mean he doesn't write much music, he's not 'artistic' but his work and presence is irreplacable in every band he plays. Dizzy... IMO GN'R has never needed a full-time keyboard player, he's a good conga player though. And Slash... he's the best guitarist ever in my opinion. A lot of guys can play faster than him, but... why? He is the man, his soulful and creative playing is so unique, noone can beat that, although I preferd his Snakepit works over VR.

I was on a holiday when I heard about this thread. I thought it was a joke at first, but obviously some people enjoy comparing two bands like this.

So go on, compare and rate. If that's what you want.





/jarmo

You should just sticky this thread and put all the VR vs Gnr threads here, so they might just die.

yes, good idea. people can't resist to talk and debate about "battles" between bands. and nobody can go against that. Just put a sticky and you won't have to close threads talking about that ever. :)

but it's a madness cuz it might be a killer thread where everyone'd insult each other!!!!!!   :drool:

JimmyTheGent, you are being an absolute retard.. you are saying you pick Scott over Axl because you don't like Axl's voice now or whatever.. but back in the day you would have picked Axl?  ok.  Then you start talking about Slash, Duff, and Izzy, and how its absurd to prefer ANYONE over them for what they did back in the day..  what about Axl? 

My votes:

Axl over Scott - Scott is good, Axl is superb

Robin over Slash - Both great guitarists, Robin has the edge as far as tech ability and his style is a bit more modern but fits really well with GNR.  Robin wins.

Fortus over Kushner - I'm not a fan of that kushner guy really, i dont know him, but I really like Fortus.  He is perfect in GNR, Kushner doens't stand out to me at all.

Tommy over Duff - Very close, both excellent bassists. Tommy is a little bit better in GNR, and much better on his own.  Just listen to his solo shit and then Duff's.

Brain over Matt - I never liked matt at all.   Brain is pretty rockin.

Dizzy over no Keys - GNR have much more diversity in their music than VR do, and that is a good thing IMO.  Songs like Oh My God, IRS, CD, and then songs like madagascar or the Blues... VR could never pull that kind of shit off like GNR can. 

And you're bringing this up again why??
JimBob, I've already discussed that back a few pages with yer buddy Dave - get with the program  ::)

I say:
Axl
Slash
Richard
Duff
Matt

the opinion of a jackass.   Scott is good, Axl is a legend

im not going to be drawn into an argument with a moron like you - go and crawl back to the hole you came from  :P

Just an update concerning Robin (about my evaluation page 1) (in red, my new evaluation)

robin
stage presence 8 -----> 6
energy 7 ---->6
ability 7 ----> 4 (compared to Slash)?
look/cool factor 2 ---> 3
Potencial media attraction/impact on the general public ---> 0.5 (Slash = 10)

hahaha - so he's actually gone down further in your estimation Nesquick?
You really have it in for this guy don't you? (while thinking the sun shines out of Fortus' ass  :smoking:)

I think you'll actually see Robin play a fairly large role in CD - it wouldnt surprise me at all if his name came up the most in the writing credits except Mr Rose of course

I may change my mind when the album comes out.

man thats so biased. You never have ANYTHING good to say about robin.

this is the way it should be:

stage presence  -----> 9
energy  ---->10
ability  ----> 9
look/cool factor  --->10
Potencial media attraction/impact on the general public --->10

no, you are wrong. I think he is a great guy and a great person. I love his website and his "artsy" personality. But I just think Axl has been making a mistake to hire him on lead for 8 years. The gap is so huge. Is he really the right guy to replace Mr Slash? If you think he is ok that's your right, but it's not mine. As I said, i may change totally my mind when CD comes out. I'm not a basher, never been one and never will be. I never have definitive judgment.

Yes he is the right guy for the position. He did write the guitar parts for the blues afterall....

you see, the blues guitar solo is very good...I give him credit for that. : ok:

I totally agree, lets just hope CD takes the world by storm which i believe it will, the old stuff is the best but the same goes for metallica aswell, thier old stuff is better than the new... i just hope they dont get stuck into this nu-metal that is floating around currently, that would be a shame

Robin is actually more techincally skilled then slash and his style is somewhat similar, yet more modern and he is a bit more diverse.  GNR doesn't need Slash. 

Wow, the blind devotion some of you have for the new band sometimes is shocking :-X

And your opiniion is WAAAAYYYYYY less biased? ::)

I'm with nesquick, he's average at best.

I think otherwise.

Robin's playing (/ rendering) is so unusual. Who plays like him?

I'm a musician, so my opinion means everything
(ha ha ha...)

Axl beats Scott for sure.
Scott is an EXCELLENT singer, but his lyrics are sometimes a little weak, and he tends to make the singing similar in a lot of songs. The singing for Unglued is exactly the same for one of the VR songs.
The last 2 minute of Coma pretty much put Axl ahead of any singer in my mind.

Duff vs Tommy
Tommy is good, and definitely has lots of energy. He is pretty faithful in playing Duff's parts well too. But Duff came up with those parts... So I take Duff. Plus his bass sound in the GNR Days was so unique. Right Next Door To Hell intro? mmmmm

Richard vs Dave
The sound of Contraband is just a big mess, so it's hard to know what Dave is playing. Richard's solo stuff on his site is really cool though, and I know he is quite capable of being the lead player in GNR, so I'm going to say Richard.

Slash vs Robin
There isn't even a competition here. Slash can play circles around Robin. I can't believe anyone would argue otherwise. Slash is so smooth whereas Robin kind of sounds like some kind of knife cutting through the mix... I like Robin for the most part, but he is in no way anywhere near as good as Slash. Shame on all of you. ha ha ha

Brain vs Matt
Matt is an underrated drummer. While I think the sound of the drums is the lowpoint of the UYI CDs, his skill is really highlited on Coma and Locomotive. I think there's a good reason there isn't much UYI stuff played by the new band... They can't pull it off properly. Brain done a lot of great work with Primus though. I'm not a huge fan of either drummer, but I'll take Matt here.

I totally agree with you ryan, exept maybe for the drums. I like Matt, but Brain is better (for me).
I also agree with you when you said Richard should take the Lead. I think the band would be bigger with him on Lead (although he is great on rythm too).

I agree with Ryan, ... but I have to ask one thing....  Brain was part of primus right? so, they made the south park song, didnt they?


                                   @;---.-,----,.---,.---,-.-,.--,.-,.-- The perfect Rose

they did a lot more then write the south park song but yes, they did, as the creators were fans.
primus is bloody fantastic.

and uh, here's my contribution to this thread:

Axl over Scott, easily, although i'd like Axl even better if he would release something
it's not an option, but I'd choose Buckethead over Slash, and slash over robin.. although I enjoy all three.
Richard over Dave
Brain over Matt, easily.. never liked Matt ever.. something about his drumming just kills it, and not in a good way. I'd even pick steven adler over matt. And Brain was in fuckin' primus and fucking rocked, and still rocks  :peace:
Dizzy over no keyboards
Tommy over Duff... I like duff as a musician, and I even like some of his singing, but essentially his best contribution is to look cool... and he looked really really cool back in the day  : ok:
So essentially my dream Gn'r already exists, just put slash back in somehow... or even better, buckethead..

Brain is the best thing in new GNR, I hope that he plays drums the way he wants to on CD (if its ever released)

He has played with `tom Weights for fuck ske and only the besy play with him

If you honestly open your eyes up you can see V.R is band that won?t last, their singer is out of control over n? over, slash plays simple solos when he was supposed to be the best guitar player a long long time ago, c?mon let?s admit it Slash n? those guys could do a better album but the truth is they didn?t so anyway V.R will never be famous n? amazing like GNR, even the new gnr members show to V.R that they do know how play good music these days!   :hihi:

Are you DaveGnFnR2k16 under a different name? Let's see:
VR's singer is out of control. Gee, hasn't he always been? Been around for awhile, huh? Think Axl's in control? How many great lead singers do you know of that aren't nutty?

Slash plays simple solos? Sure the solos with VR aren't like his solos with Guns...yet. But Fall To Pieces has sweet guitar work in it and if you don't think Slash will be around for awhile, you're sadly mistaken.

VR will never be famous like GnR? Of course not. But GnR was famous b/c of its members which included 3 from VR!

And I have no idea what you said in the end about new GnR members. But anyone who is sane would rate Slash and Duff above their counterparts in nu GnR. Matt and Brain is a toss up.  Richard and Dave are as well but Dave's body of work is better IMO.  And Axl was once great but has shown nothing in a decade while Scott has put out Platinum albums.  Who knows how Axl is now? Clearly I would take old Axl vs any Scott but who knows what nu Axl is like? He hasn't appeared in years and was iffy then. 

This whole thread is silly. How can you compare an existing band to one that is still, well, fictional?

Scott (cant spell his last name) > Axl Rose, present.

I was a little bit severe with Robin previously. I think he is a good guitar player.

Im a musician so im speakin' the truth here, her' goes...

Robin vs. Slash
 
    I've loved Slash since the beginning alright, he's the man, he's a blues man n' thats his style, he tends to stay on the same bar's  on his guitar n' generally just rides with it , but dont get me wrong, the man can play......Now, Robin Finck, i knew him from NIN, loved his style n' then he joins GnR :o...This guy knows his shit :o :o :o :o Im serious when i say that most of you dont know this mans talent, sure you judge him on EVERY SINGLE FUCK UP he did from the 02' tour, but take a look at Slash from over the years why dont you's. I tell ya, you will all change your minds when we hear what this man will do on Chinese Democracy.

Robin wins  :beer:

Matt vs. Brain

Brain has a variety of styles n' doesnt stick to the same drum fills...Matt does ::)

Brain wins :peace:

Tommy vs. Duff

Duff is my all time hero n' Tommy is right next to him, i dig both these guys alot....i havent heard VGH yet Believe In Me is a huge influence on me :yes:

Duff wins :smoking:

Richard vs. Dave


No dis to Dave 'cause he's good at what he does but Richard lays a dirty smelly turd on his head with fly's on the side. Richard rocks like no other.

Richard wins ;D

Axl vs. Scott

Scott got blown to hell n' backerack and slowly sealed over, finaly the brain went out and started making this shlupping sound, a sound you could smell, it started growing these like....teeth..incurving hooks....he thought it was cute at first n' built an act around it,  but after a while he started beating at it with his fist telling it to shut up 'cause it was screaming for days saying i wanted equal rights!!! . the whole abdomin would move up n' down n' start farting out the words you dig, he turned it into a novalty ventriloquist  act, scott screamed at it to shut up but it replied it is you who will shut up in the end not me cause we dont need you 'round here anymore..........then....there was nothing........just shredded newspaper clippings n' burned out toliet brushes, shower kertain's n' waterbuckets, no food corts no toilet tree's......silence....

in the end I said :  the new GNR members are good musicians to play with Axl, Duff, Matt n' Slash seem to make music to Christina Aguilera THESE TIMES cuz they don?t sound like a rock band anymore!, if you don't believe me so hear their album n? see their ridiculous shows!

Oh I notice Scott is your hero but at least you had the chance to hide it but you couldn't so let me tell ya something Axl isn't outta control, he never lost contro anyway!, I don't care if Scott has put out Platinum albums cuz that guy sucks more than ever, he's so very stoned every time they are on stage, he?s lost in a world of drugs again but he says he's clean to date  ::)  , so it's time for ya to respect Axl cuz he's not a wacko!, he's not a stoner!, he's the best singer ever! Can ya admit it for once? i don't care if axl's been away from us after all this time cuz anyway he showed us a time that he'll be a living legend always!, got it?   ;D

Scott: last gnR show I went to Axl never showed up
Slash: dumb question
Dave: another dumb question
Duff: another dumb question
matt; another dumb question

who the fuck needs a keyboard player in a rock band

How can you compare a band that is the industries biggest punchline to a band that's had one hit record and one world tour and preparing for it's second.

Unless you want to compare how the new GnR plays the old GnRs songs.  Otherwise, you got nothing to compare

Why fucking bother? As Axl said, "This new band can play the fuck out of these songs!" : ok:

Axl
vocals 8 (10 way back when)-a little weak these days, but still has killer range
apperance 9 (10 way back when)-he looks pretty good now, his face has filled out since he's not a stick anymore
style 7 (10 way back when)-jerseys?  gym pants?  come on, man! (i'm fine with the braids)
presence 10-when he hits the stage everyone goes crazy
energy 10-runs around for everything, dances etc
lyrics 11-best writter since lennon/mccartney  :peace:

Scott
vocals 7 (9 on the STP album core)-his voice is pretty generic and average.  he sounded great on Core, though
appearance 8-looks cool and can scowl
style 7-looks like most other rockstars.  leather jacket, t shirt and jeans.
presence 10-real good stage presence
energy 10-very good frontman
lyrics 7-average lyrics about drugs

Axl wins, 55 to 49

guitar

Slash
stage presence 10-slash is a god
energy 7-used to run around more often in GN'R days, now he's a bit heavy.
ability 9-estranged, but his stuff in contraband is pretty lame
cool factor 10-top hat, cigarette, mop of hair, sunglasses?  come on, it's a classic!

robin
stage presence 8-very good, but better in NIN
energy 9-he really gets into the solos
ability 7-he messes up a lot of solos, but his solo in the blues is fantastic
cool factor 8-the bald head was cool, but now he looks like jesus!

Slash wins 36-32

Dave
stage presence 4-overshadowed by Slash
energy 10-does go pretty crazy on stage
ability 7-nothing impressive
cool factor 6-looks very weak when on stage with Slash

Richard
stage presence 7-pounds his guitar into oblivion
energy 10-watch him pound his guitar
ability 9-his solo in the end of the blues is very good, and he's a very capible rhythm guitarist
cool factor 8-cool and a very nice guy

Richard wins 34-27

Duff
stage presence 8-the once GN'R bassist and his friend Slash still are a menacing duo
energy 8-pretty active on stage
ability 7-copied the solo from SCOM onto FTP.  nothing exciting
cool factor 8-cool hair in the 80s/90s, and he has aged decently

Tommy
Stage presence 8-jumps around a bit and headbangs a lot
energy 8-see above
ability 9-excellent work with the replacements, and is very good in the blues
cool factor 7-i like the plad suits

Tommy wins 32-31

Drums
Matt
ability 8-pretty good solos during UYI tour, but nothing fasanating with VR
presence 7-eh.  nothing like alex van halen, but no as bad as ringo starr
energy 8-gets real into it
cool factor 6-looked like a creep during UYI, but looks better now

Brain
ability 9-amazing drummer in primus, but we are yet to hear what he can do with GN'R.  madagascar is pretty lame drumming.
presence 6-not a very powerful drummer that demands respect
energy 8-gets into the old songs
cool factor 5-nothing much intersting about Brain.

matt wins 29-28

so far overall

VR 172
GN'R 181

i see you wanna be like your hero called Scott cuz you ingest drugs before replyin' at our posts over here  :hihi:  , ya make no senese   ::)

You bitch and moan way too much! :confused:

OMG!  why on earth has this thread been brought back to life?!

go n' hear your V.R's stuff instead of openin' your mouth to speak 'bout me, you're the only one who thinks scott sings better than axl   :rant:  , you don't deserve to be called a gnr fan, find a V.R forum when you can adore'em like crazy!!!  ::)

That's your dumbest post yet. Everyone here knows I'm not a fan of VR.

I was wondering that same thing.

every V.R fan hates me cuz i protect gnr's figure, even you !!!  :-\

 :rofl:

Ven, your a trippy muthafucka..I dont read your posts to get the logic outta them because there is none, there just good for a laugh after a shitty day of work : ok:

the cult that is Ven grows by the day  :P

What will happen first? We will all succumb to Ven's cult or Axl will release Chinese Democracy? ???

i know y'all won't stop adorin' me, so make me a favour go n' destroy all your V.R's stuff right now to show who's the only band to rule the world forever !!!!? :smoking:

Ven, we are your dutiful minions and will follow you in your honourable quest  :yes:

yeah, i'm so sure that you do love gnr, ....you also know how to recognize a band who smell like shit? :beer:

Ven, your wish is my command. As I type this, I'm setting my truckload of VR stuff on fire. Message to all VR lovers: Dont call the fire department. :hihi:

Ah James please.. when people start quoting ARV it gets realllllllllllly confusing to read. Just be the man and let it go.. haha

oh how nice but there's another interesting step from now on : get into a V.R show n' spit Scott's eyes, the guy will share his drugs with you for sure after that!! ?:hihi:

thats some scary shit right there  :P

Yeah, considering the fact that Buckethead's mask is taken from a mold of Ven's face. :rofl:

Id like to see GNR release CD within the same week whenever VR releases their new album.  Then we'll all see who the better band is based on sales.  Even though Id side with GNR regardless

That's not gonna happen.