Here Today... Gone To Hell!

For all the people that complain Axl does not have that ?rasp? in his voice anymore.  When people complain about this it sometimes boggles my mind.  Axl NEVER had the rasp in his voice until he blew out his voice in the early 90s.  Just listen to the shows from the 80s like the Ritz for example or listen to AFD. Axl does not have a rasp in his voice.  The rasp is a defect in his voice.  Now listen to HOB, that is how a healthy voice should sound.  If you take Axls voice from a 80s show and a show from 2002 they are pretty similar just Axl is older.  So we should really hope Axl does not get that rasp back because that means his voice is screwed up again.

maybe we like the rasp.  : ok:  Healthy or not.  :peace:

I just think some of the original GN'R songs don't sound the same because Axl's voice has changed. ?Take YCBM for instance. ?When he used to get to the "I think we've seen that movie too....OWWWWWWW", now it sounds like "ah". ?It's just weaker.

Listen to the UYI II version, his voice is clean with no rasp. On the 2002 tour he song it the same just an octive higher or just higher.? I for one think Axl sounded like crap with the rasp. Id much rather take Axls voice for lets say SCOM from France (ppv) than from toyko (dvd).

Dave,
 
 ? Great post! ?I actually struck up a conversation with a speech therapist/pathologist at work yesterday and we talked about Axl's voice. ?The conclusion? ?Axl's higher, cleaner voice on the '02 tour is completely intentional. ?It's done on purpose. ?It allows him to sing without losing his voice, hence, he didn't have to cancel shows...(alright, cancel shows because of voice problems :) ) ?The tell-tale sign of Axl losing his voice would be not being able to hit the high-notes, which HOLY SHIT he does so very well. ?Great timing for this post Dave!

 ?I didn't understand the whole esophageal technique of adding air volume she talked about, but it's obviously something that trained singers can do. ?

 ?I don't know if it was from Argentina '93 or Paris '92, where I couldn't believe the force and power behind a 20.2 second-long note being held. ?It blew my friggin mind, maybe it was Patience? ?Anyone know? ?Or how 'bout '02 tour's Live and Let Die from Boise I think? ?Un-f'in-believable!!!

-Axl4prez2004 ? :beer: ? ?:drool:

PS  I just saw some posts saying you like the rasp...you've gotta understand, your larynx can only stand so much abuse!  Trust me, in the studio, he can afford to go for broke, rasp and all.   :peace:   On the boots you're hearing songs where he could be performing 2 or 3 times per week...that's not sustainable for a tour.


 ? ?

 ?

My friend who is a professional singer (well not paid to sing but is professionally trained) she told me a lot about axls voice and told me some stuff like  you just talked about. She said that he was singing from his  diafram very well or something to that effect. She was suprised at how high he can sing.

I hope he blew out his voice while recording democracy so it's all raspy again.  : ok:

The rasp is the reason most people that hate Axls voice complain about. They say his rasp sounds like a cat in? a blender. I want Axls voice clean and clear not all fucked up. Just listen to IRS or those studio clips or even SCOM big daddy its all clean and no rasp.?? Plus he never had that rasp on any of the studio albums.
The rasp is bad for  your voice and severely messes up your vocal chords.

http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/audio/studiocuts-newgnrdotcom.mp3
http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/audio/Axl-sweetchildnew-newgnrdotcom.mp3

Thats why I like most of the live shit better .. that rasp is golden!! Hopefully all those cigars he smokes are ripping the holy fuck outta his vocal chords!  :beer:

Dave u are dead on.

after watching some 2002 boots I was like damn his voice his higher,clean and a bit different sounding.

I went back and listened to some songs off AFD and realized that is how his voice sounded on that album

Axl still has the power when he wants it

people dont realize that Axl is in the process of recording so when the 2002 started he sang in a way as to not destroy his vocal cords again.

Im sure he can still sing with that down and dirty snarling growl when he wants too cause there are moments from 2002 when he does, the opening WTJ scream, the LALD screams.

He still has it even if he doesnt use it as much on the tour.

I don't like it when he goes full-on rasp, though I like it in moderation.  I didn't like some of the performances in the UYI DVDs because he sounded way too raspy on a few of the songs.

Why the hell would you want him to blow his vocal chords out so he cant sing and cancell shows once they start touring?  ???

I think he does the rasp thing as part of the live performances. No big deal...

axl's voice, overall is much clearer and clean during the 2002 tour than during 87-93. but listen to the difference in madagascar at rio, then the 2002 tour. i think axl holds back at some points, i think the album will tell the full story.

The best example is the Dont Cry 86 demo, his voice is as crisp and clean as nowadays.
 I think the best live performance I've heard from  him is one from the Ritz in 87, I've only heard Jungle, paradise city, sweet child and dont cry from that gig but it is the greatest I have ever heard.

exactly.  the live scenario is so much different than the studio circumstances.  there's so many reasons i'm looking forward to CD...  :drool:  :drool:  :drool:
but, more than anything i want to hear Axl sing his heart out...
i'm sure the vocals will be fuckin' amazin'  : ok:

I could care less about tours. I just wanna see the album.

His IRS voice is the best ever.
Me, damn fussy one says it's
"Breathtaking". :drool:

While I prefer his voice with the rasp, either way is fine with me : ok:

If the whole album contains so great vocals, it will blow the world away. One of the best Axl's vocals on a song EVER.

it will, because that's what axl is perfecting. 8)
and what we heard was just a low-quality demo, imagine what's to come. we're part of something very big here, and i'm gonna be damn proud to have stuck with him all the way when release day comes and others will jump aboard. 8)

Could Axl now sing One in A Million like he does on Lies? I think thats one of his greatest vocal performences.

Axl definately uses a different vocal pitch thats higher than in the past. Some like it some dont. I personally would be happy if Axl sang the old songs exactly like he does on record...long screams not included, because anyone will have trouble with those touring, but just the verses. Axl sometimes seems to struggle keeping up with them, especially on Jungle.

Listen to "I.R.S." and tell me about a weak voice...

He sounds great, and for the record he never was a good SINGER in concert. He was (and still is) a great PERFORMER, but only few VOCAL performances could live up to what he did in the studio. No big thing. Axl is not the only one, listen to Bono in concert and compare that to a U2 album for example.

Live it's a different setting and very much depending on the mental and physical constitution of the day. He may hit it right on the nail sometimes, but technically, most of his vocals are weak live and have always been.

After all, he still is and sounds original and that's what counts.

His voice rocks and at the moment he is still the greatest rock singer alive. Active or not - you know he can both hit and miss very hard, but when he hits, there's nothing to him and you know it.

Complaining about rasp vs. clean voice is like complaining about Slash vs. Buckethead - it's a matter of what you prefer. Both are very good and unique...

Bad analogy .. slash is a blues based pentatonic player .. whereas Buckethead can play any genre and/or style.  : ok:

It's not just the rasp (which is good in the right places), its the 'strength' or 'power' that appears to have diminished

Im hoping that alot of this can be attributed to Axl being out of shape, and alot of the time out of breath on the last tour

hopefully he'll be in better shape when he next emerges

ive always felt that one of the reasons Axl was a far better live singer from 87-90 was that he didnt run all over the stage like he did in the Illusions era and the last tour. he is wasting valuable energy doing this that needs to go into his singing. I'm aware that with the bigger venues, he was trying to put on a bigger show etc... but just witness some of the bigger earlier shows and I think he had a much better handle on what was required - a balance between showmanship and holding the big notes

21st century's Axl is a new mystery, even his voice.  :)
I like the rasp thing a lot. I can live without it though. It's true that many people don't like it though. You need to get used by it anyway. I like the new way, but it's like he lost the special gift he had (especially when you hear him for the first time).
I agree with most of you about the common way of singing in 2002 shows and in AFD studio albums but in one thing, he can't fully use that rasp. Have you heard the first show he did in Las Vegas in 2001? In the first song, "welcome to the jungle", he tried that thing till the first chorus but it was like he failed to do it and he quited from trying. Besides, I wonder why he doesn't sing scom like he did in Bigdaddy scom version (btw it's like he suffers on that version). The answer I think after all, is that he can't use the rasp too much after the 2000s. He uses it optionally to a few songs and to the new ones like "oh my god". I'm sure he can make it at studio versions (e.g. IRS, oh my god), so the album is gonna rock either way. : ok:

Axl is still Axl and i love him with or without the rasp.
dont forget he is getting older people!!
he isnt the 20 year old anymore, he has aged as people do, you cant expect his voice to be exactly the same....

yeah the age thing is definitely a factor - another reason I reckon, why he should lay off the running round the stage and getting out of breath

maybe he feels young at heart, but he is getting older and if he does keep pushing his body he is not going to be a happy chappy when he has a heart attack on stage which can very easily happen expecually when he is  running around not giving his body time to rest.
i just hope he watches his health

I am not going to speculate WHY Axl's voice is different in the 2002 tours.  But I have to say I enjoy his voice a lot more from the early 90's/late 80's.  It is just an angrier stronger voice.  The 2002 voice is too high pitched and not as fierce.  I am not sure why anyone would not prefer the old growling Axl top the high pitched one.

I hate the rasp!!!!!!!! It ruins alot of live songs. SCOM with a rasp is awful. I wish Axl had a litter more behind his voice but thats all, from what Ive seen from the new tour is good. I prefer that to the damn rasp. Down with the rasp!!! :peace:

Axl's voice on GN'R Lies are the top. Listen to you're crazy or one in a million. It's Janis Joplin.
His IRS voice is also exellent.

i didnt read all the post in this thread but im going to throw in my 2 cents here:

first off, the "rasp" that we are speaking of, i call "distortion". i guess its just the guitarist in me. anywho, the distortion was most defintly aparent on AFD. "WTTJ" anyone? oh yea 8)

as far as not having it anymore, well its true that the vocals were "cleaner" on the 02 tour, but there were hints of the distortion there as well. "live and let die" is a good example on most shows. and on IRS, i think he sounds like he can go back and forth between the clean and distorted vocals. the line "theres not anymore that i can do" is clean, while a line like "wouldnt be the first time ive been wrong/gone" has distortion.

and i like that distortion on songs like "jungle", "rocket queen" and "YCBM". but the clean vocals sounds mucho better on "sweet child" and "the blues". word out

He did slip into it occasionally on the tour... for instance in 'The Blues' in pittsburgh where he does the 'you know I tried so hard to make you..' line.

He can still pull it off, however the clean voice is much nicer a lot of the time.  Madagascar with rasp? I hope not.

Just look at the SCOM 99. The first part is old Axl with Rasp and it sounds awful, the ending is Axl from now, and the cleaner voice. Which do you think sounds better?

yeah but one was studio and one was live - kinda like comparing Apples to Oranges

We wont really be able to compare until CD is released

Here here! As much as I enjoyed the Tokyo shows (I've owned them since they came out), Axl does sound like crap on most of the 2nd part of the show  :-\
Where as on the Paris show he maintained his voice throughout the whole thing (A better show, wish they'd released this one)

Yes but when he slips into the rasp on that line on the Blues I think it sounds awful, that Pittsburgh version is amazing, don't get me wrong I just didn't like the way he did that line. It was better high pitched on Rio.

It's funny you should mention Madagascar with a rasp cos on the studio clip I think he sounds kinda raspy when he sings @I won't be told anymore'. I'm with you though I think that one should stay how its been done live in terms of vocals (He nails it on the Albany,NY bootleg).

Thats what I been sayin for 3 years now : ok:


 :peace:

P.S I still think I voice sounds unreal tho.

High pitched voices can sound cool in rock, I mean Perry Farrell is a good example of this.
His voice used to really irritate me years ago but I really dig it now. I think Axl is /was quite a big Jane's fan too!

I'm rambling now anyway  :-\

yeah I love Janes and Perry has a cool voice
I think Axls is a different kettle of fish to Perry (who sounds almost like a child ive always thought)

I ment to say P.S I still think Axl's voice sounds unreal tho.


 :peace:

i thought this was an interesting topic so i went back to my collection of performances on my comp and stumbled across jungle from rio '01. HOLY SHIT!!!! he's almost perfect, especially the opening scream. And also the middle part, with "do u know where u are? you're in the jungle rio, you're gonna dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"..fucking unreal.?That is the best new gnr performance of jungle  i've seen.? i agree with the others, his voice is obviously cleaner, but when he wants to he still can mix it up with some raspy parts/lines.

Oh and for the people that dont like to call it Rasp  you can call it Shredding. But I consider Shredding Clean Rasp, where he does it by design.  The rasp during the UYI tour he was not doing on purpose, his voice was just shot, where as now when he does it, its by design and its more like shredding his voice.

Wow.  I can't believe that the majority of posters in this thread are saying they like Axl's current voice to the old one.   Axl is lucky to have such loyal fans.  I hope someday, your loyalty is rewarded.  I enjoy his older voice a lot better, even though I don't HATE the current voice.  Any Axl is better than no Axl.

We dont like his current voice better than his older voice cira 1985-1990 but we like his current voice better than his voice cira 1991-1993.  Axls voice on the studio tracks and clips sounds amazing. Just listen to oh my god, IRS, those clips of the last part of SCOM big daddy. You dont think that his current voice is good?

 :beer:
And I think his voice on IRS is different from AFD tunes, his voice has changed but I like it anyway.

LISTEN TO ALMOST EVERY GNR SONG EVER MADE!!!! AXLS VOICE WAS ALWAYS RASPY, THATS HIS SIGNATURE VOICE!!!. Hes got the deep voice and a few others but the high pitched rasp (no I dont mean that horrid screech he gave out at the St Louis riot show during the UYI tours) is his signature. And on the 2002 tours everyone says well it sound like he did on Appetite. ARE U PPL DEAF??!! No it doesnt he sound like a little girl thats out of breath,

Now when I say rasp, I dont mean the screeching when he blows out his chords, like Sweet Child of Mine on the the Live Era album. I mean the high pitched raspy voice Axl's known for. Its embarrassing and makes me wanna tear my goddamn ears out when I hear the 2002 shit. I mean if hes saving his voice thats fine. Im sure we'll here his old voice on Chinese Democracy and all will be right in the state of Denmark but dont spit up my ass and tell me its raining  :peace:

Axl's 2002 tour voice sounded more like a falsetto type voice whereas he use to hit the notes more naturally.

falsetto type voices are generally thinner but I think he does that to not harm his vocal cords

He sounded way to good on Oh My God and his opening WTTJ scream for someone to just say he doesnt have it anymore.

Listen to that VMA Jungle scream again and tell me he still cant do it if he wants to.

Twisted Nerve 85 (and co.)  If you can't tell Axl was holding back on the '02 tour, you've got issues.  The way Axl sang through the Illusions days was not sustainable.  I think IRS and OMG offer us the best indication of what we'll hear voice-wise on Chinese Democracy...oh yeah, plus the little snippet of the songs from the Boston audio...trust me. 

Now, if you're gonna tell me Axl had a career-worst performance at the VMA's...then you are correct.  While portions were very good, on the whole, Axl swung and missed there.  I don't know what the hell the problem was, hopefully we find out when Axl comes out of hiding.

This whole voice thing reminds me of the first time I saw GNR live in July of '92 in Buffalo with Metallica.  I was very impressed with how Metallica sounded to me almost identical live as on the Black album.  GNR was different.  GNR (to me) sounded way different live than on the Illusions and Appetite...but I loved it!  Just my 2 cents.   :peace: 

 

The voice everyone here likes the most is Axl from the 1988 VMA's Welcome to the Jungle.  It is strong, powerful, raspy, and never runs out of breath.  It is unfocking beleivable.

Did you know  before that 1988 VMAs 99% of the acts lip synched to their songs and mtv wanted gnr to but they refused and said they wanted to play it live for real. So after that most bands starting playing live for real and not to  a tape. Well at least that is what I remember from a long time ago. Can anyone else verify this?

Guns N Roses may be the greatest band ever.  Dave, will you be happy when the original GNR reunites?  It is going to happen.  There is nothing you can do.

His voice never had a rasp, not in the 80s or 90s. He was losing his voice in the 90s. I was at one of the shows where he couldn't sing... there wasn't any sound, or it was a croaking sound.  In the 80s it just had a fuller sound. Whatever you want to call it, that was gone by the 90s and it's still gone. Don't mean he can't sing now, he just can't sing like he could in the beginning. Personally I think that's one thing that has frightened and vexed him since the early 90s.

All the respect to you Dave for sticking to the existing Guns & Axl's voice.
Although there were a few brilliant moments in 2002 when Axl was using that raspy voice (like in the first 35 seconds of the MTV VMA's) the rest just fell off my ears and didn't connect to me. His voice may not have had a rasp when he first came out in 1985 (like what he had in 1992 during the middle of UYI), but it was powerful and he could harness it rather than coming across too raspy or too smooth (hint the last 2002 tour).

I don't think Axl's voice will ever approach what it was pre-1991. He's human, but I still prefer his 1991-1993 vocals to todays. Axl's voice at the Skin & Bones tour in 1993 btw is some of the best vocals he ever had. Besides, he actually harnessed his raspy voice for songs like "Live & Let Die" (Tom Waites meets Metallica) & November Rain. Those are like two of their best songs ever. Makes him sounds like a man with experience - an old man that you want to listen to (like the guy he portrays in "Dead Horse" - the old cowboy).

MNR

The guy is 40 what do you expect plus he also had surgery on his throat. Just listen to IRS demo its from the studio, his voice is still very powerful in a controlled setting, that is all that really matters, how he sounds on the album.  Listen to that scream at the end of IRS, that is vintage Axl. Also listen to the songs axl redid for live era, like WTTJ or my michelle, that voice is very good.  I dont understand why some people like Axl sounding like he did at the toyko DVD, that sounds like crap.
Id take Axls voice now over that anyday.

Yes Axl's much older, but the one thing amazes me is that he had chenged the whole singing techniqe. That's good for him. But I guess something went wrong. When you sing you use many aspects, but to be simple, your body is like an instrument. Comparing it to cello your body is "resonator box"(I hope you know what I ment, cause I don't know the english words" and air - kept in the diaphragm is like the bow. Man has like five main resonators(that word again...), and to sound with full sound, you need to use all of them. I don't kow why, Axl stopped using the one in the chest, even a higher one(some call it "mix") and is using only those in the head. That's the way he sounds like stong falsetto(like someone said). You're still saying about high notes. Look at the lower ones. When Axl sings verses to the songs like Mr.B or It's so easy, which starts quite low, I always have that feeling getting tired listing while he's singing.
I think it's definitely because of the surgery, so if Axl want's to kill us with his sound(positive), he has to practice alot and find the best way to do it, thought I've got to admit, he's already done a lot !!!!

I know it's very hard to bash the idol, but when I read Your posts here, it sometimes very weired to me seeing which notes You describes as great and amazing...

IRS - as far as I remember, we don't actualy know when the IRS was exectly recorded.
When you compare rio performence(I've only seen like three songs) to pukkelpop(which I've seen live) you can easy say Axl's voice sounds worst then it was two years(?) earlier.

Rasp - I don't like when Axl screams the whole song out, but here and there is why I love Axl. And the "new clean" voice works out with the new songs, which we're not got used to...

Cheers
MoonMax

Ask any voice specialist or authority on opera. You'll get the answer that most singers reach the peak of their voice at around the age of 40. Or ask otolaryngologists. That's biologically proven.


Yep, I do. And I don't even consider myself as his loyal fan. even though I don't hate any of his voice, I size up IRS demo voice as the best despite the flaws in singing. It's obviously a rough take in the developing stage of the song but it reveals the quality of the voice. His current voices (he has a multiple singing voice) arouse further delicate and profound feelings than AFD voice. But to be honest, I don't think it was best for paradice city of '02.

By the way, I'm not basically particular about how good a vocal or any certain part is on a rock song as long as I like it as a whole. To me, how the parts relate to each other matters. But since you're arguing on this, I gotta tell what I know and feel.

yeah but thats probably for Operactic trained professionals, Axl didnt sing properly and totally destroyed his voice.

Jon Bon Jovi didnt sing properly and totally destroyed his voice which is nothing like it was in the late 80's, still sounds good but not close to how great he was.

Axl uses the powerful falsetto for his high notes which makes em sound thinner and not as powerful

I prefer the early 90's vocals, but I can live with the 2002 voice.

for the record, I think Jon sounded better in the 80s than what he does now..

I prefer the 1988 Axl voice, and I don't understand the people that talk about his raspy voice. he's ALWAYS had a pretty raspy voice, he took it too far on the UYI tour though, that's all.
these days, ha mainly has a completely clear voice, but sometimes he pulls off his raspy 1990 voice.
but to sing like that all the time would kill the guy.
but anyways, I love Axl's voice in all versions, I don't care what he sounds like, just get the album out and go on tour man!
the people need to hear you again, best hard rock voice ever if you ask me!

Hmm, no and yes

No -operatic or pop or yodel it's same. Scientifically the fact is that human's vocal organs develop fully at about the age of 40.  Personally I think his '02 performance proves the voice studies n science right. I'm talking about his voice on the new songs. He doesn't need to rely on the power anymore.

Yes- there's big difference which is shame.
Pop singers tend to have their peaks of popularity much earlier than of their voice. Besides some people prefer it immature or hoarse, which is a Matter of taste. Me myself am not fussy about the beauty of voice as far as it goes well with other parts n the taste of the song.
Also Pop /rock singers tend to abuse their vocal organs before fully grown. Your Life style can effect on your vocal organs a great deal. Smoking n heavy drink are evils. Forcing your throat too much can cause polyps n cancers.

But, if it were the case with Axl, he would't be able to sing for 45 mins in the studio and do it again as many times as needed, as Sean Beaven describes him.

I don't know much about Bon Jovi but I hear that he'd sing an opera piece for a warm-up before each show.
Also there are exceptional singers like Iggy Pop, who did everything bad for him in his younger days and sings no worse than then. (I'm no expert about him either.)

One of my fav Axl voices is RIR2 second night. 92 tended to vary show to show, for example Oklahoma wasn't the best but then Chicago a few nights later was a lot better. I thought generally in 93 his voice was a lot better.

I never said Axl wasnt holding back. I mean listening to WTTJ in Rock in Rio three in the intro u can tell that he can hit those notes still, Im simply saying that he NEVER IN ANY GNR SONG sounded like he did on the 2002 tour. Its blasphemy to even say such a thing. And hopefully he will explain to us what happened to the voice we all came to love.  :peace:

Something is going wrong with some of you guys.
You tend to say Axl destroyed his voice in 1991. Why then in 1992-93 he sounds perfect? Is it possible to make the damage and let it be shown after 10 years!?
Also, bigdaddy was recorded in 1998, that's far away from 2002. I even think 2001 was better than 2002. Sometimes he's like he has breathed in helium and some people also complain that he sings like Mickey. I think it's a shock in the beggining when you listen to him but then you get used. I think it won't affect people's interest nevertheless. I've seen many of my friends that prefer the newer voice (almost everybody who is not used at the old one).

And something last, Axl had a surgery at his throat? I didn't know that. When? That could make his voice better and not worse (perhaps). Claus from Scorpions had a surgery too. I know that those surgeries are easier now. I also heard once that Bonnie Tyler (you know, the lady who sings "total eclipse of my heart" acquired her beautiful voice after a false surgery. Could another surgery restore Axl's voice to the top  ??? :-\

Hardcore Gunners will be arguing about Axl's voice till the end of time.? And whether it's different or the same - the real issue is the millions of casual fans who were into GN'R fifteen years ago aren't gonna take the time to understand why it's this way instead of how it was (or seemed to be or whatever).? Now days when the average music fan hears Axl's voice - they don't like it and move on.

Sad but true.

That is funny since on Oh my god and IRS, and scom big daddy he sounded great, just like he didnt back on the old albums and the people at the boston show while walking out, were all saying they cant believe how great he sounded.  Most people think axl sounds find save the VMAs. So I dont know what you are talking about.

Being the creator of the thread that doesn't surprise me.

And again - I said the "average music fan".? The people walking out of the Boston show were obviously hardcore Gunners or they wouldn't have been there to see only Axl.

Everyone I know whom I've shared any Nu GN'R with have all given me that "what the hell happened" look and didn't want to hear anymore.? And I haven't heard one person (outside these boards) who actually watched the 2002 VMA's say anything positive about it.? And as much as I love "The Blues" I agree with many that Axl is not the same.

But hey - I'm an avid fan and am planning to buy "Chinese Democracy" if and when we see it.? I just don't think the same can be said for as many as you may think.

Why dont you just answer the question and not the question you want to? First off bootlegs never do a singer justice. If you are there LIVE it sounds different from some fan or live recording.

Also like I said, Axl is an amazing studio singer. Just listen to the studio songs. You dont think he sounds good? Give  you friends those songs, or listen to the songs he re did on live era, like WTTJ. You dont think that sounds like vintage Axl?

'Everyone I know whom I've shared any Nu GN'R with have all given me that "what the hell happened" look and didn't want to hear anymore.  And I haven't heard one person (outside these boards) who actually watched the 2002 VMA's say anything positive about it.'

To a certain extent I can agree with that statement, whilst I love new GNR and truly believe some of this new stuff is the best material Axl has ever done, friends whom I have played the new songs to (Even the IRS demo) have complained about his 'new voice' and given me that same look. These same friends loved GNR back in the late 80's/early 90's. However these friends have had very positive things to say about the music on the tracks and agreed that studio versions with cleaned up vocals could be amazing. Again that is the one positive thing they had to say about the VMA performance, whilst they were dissapointed with Axls performance they loved Buckethead and the outro of PC, they were like DAMN!!!!!!!!!

This isn't my opinion, this is the opinion of casual GNR fan friends of mine. I too am a 'die hard gunner', I don't have a problem with Axl's new voice, I have become used to it because I have been playing the 'new' songs almost daily for the last 3 years! I have said it before 'Madagascar' and 'The Blues' in my opinion are 2 of the best songs Axl has ever written.

The thing people forget is this. Give those same fans SCOM from the toyko DVD And ask them how Axl sounds. I bet most will say he sounded like shit.

Yep definately, even I find it hard to watch the 2nd UYI dvd because of just how bad Axl's voice gets near the end. My friends also would much rather watch the Paris show (Why oh why didn't they release that instead!?). People could argue however that the Tokyo DVD was just one bad night for Axl in amongst some really good ones (Paris) but if people didn't like Axl's voice on one live recording of 'The Blues' the chances are they just don't like his new voice because it didn't differ too much on the different performances that I heard.

Unfortunately the millions of people who watched the 2002 VMA's could not be there LIVE and were all left with a bad impression.? Anyone who has downloaded any clips from the 2002 tour have more often than not been left with a bad impression.

Contrast that with the 80's and early 90's when just about everyone who saw GN'R on TV became a fan instantly.? It's not happening that way anymore.

And as far as the studio claim - "Oh My God's" vocals sounded like crap.? I can live with the song because I'm an Axl-junkie but the rock radio station here had to stop playing it back then because of all the complaints they got about it.? This was told to me by the program director himself when I called in wondering why I had only heard the song on the radio for two weeks then it was gone.

My personal opinion is the "Oh My God" vocal track was highly computerized to cover up the lack of rasp in his voice.? Sounds that way to me anyway.

And even though the IRS download is only a demo - I think it gives a good insight into what to expect from Axl if and when the album drops.? His voice is not the same.? Even with the rasp argument out of the equation his voice is still very different.? That's something I can deal with and get passed but the casual fans aren't showing anything that would indicate they're planning on making the effort to do the same which is key to my point.

Really? I don't know. In contrast, I hear lots of ppl didn't like his old voice at all. They say that was the only put off about GN'R. How about asking those people about his new voice?

It's not the same. He's developped new voices. Now he has them along with the old ones.
And I like his IRS voice the best of all.
OMG one ought to be like that to make the feel of the track right and to blend in well with other parts. And it kickass. Rasp was not for that feel.

I said this in my first post and I will say it again. Axl DID NOT use the rasp on AFD or the UYIs or even lies. The rasp happened because his voice got fucked up.

How can you even say he did not use it in Lies or the UYIs? :confused: Are you not listening right? One In A Million and You're Crazy is a fine example of the 'rasp'. Besides, are you telling me that Axl's voice on Yesterdays sounds 'clean'? :-\ His voice began to fuck up in 1988. I can bring in much proof to support that.

He does not use rasp on One in a Millon.? The same goes for yestersday. That is not rasp.? Its still clean. It may true to shred his voice here and there but there is a difference. When axl started getting that rasp live, it was no on purpose, he could not help it. Its just how his voice was.  His voice is clean again like it was on AFD, Lies and the Uyis.

That is rasp. Listen to Donnington 1988, the process had already begun. ::) If you can't figure out the vocal differences between Appetite and the Illusions then sorry, I can't help ya. He started vocally cheating by the early 90s. He reached his peak during 1987. Also, if November Rain doesn't have rasp then I don't know what does. Do you want an example of a clean vocal? Listen to Sweet Child O' Mine or Rocket Queen from Appetite. That's clean. Yesterdays or One In A Million is not what you call 'clean'. His voice was gritty by that point. I don't know how you can deny that. :confused:

Also, btw, I wanna say that I think his vocal performance on Democracy will be outstanding, but that is beside the point.

Didn't Fortus say a month or so ago that Axl's still recording vocals for the album?

His problem is that he's taken 8 years to do this and his voice has changed during the duration of the project. The IRS demo very well could have been recorded 6 or 7 years ago. We all know how Axl's voice can change in the period of a year (from 2001 to 2002), so don't automatically assume that demo (or any other demo/bootleg for that matter) reflects his current voice.

Axl probably wants consistent sound for every track. Well, in all likelihood that means he keeps recording vocals over and over again. He dug himself a hole that he'll never be able to get out of.

I think the final album will sound great - but his live voice was terrible as of 3 years ago and he can never turn back time and change that.

So far no good.

you're missing the whole point about why people are so disappointed by axl's new voice.

it's not just about the rasp that was present throughout the 80's and 90's (and despite some people's claims, it WAS present in the 80's....and it WAS present at the Ritz show....just listen to mama kin).

the primary difference is that his voice is way too high pitched, and for most people, it doesn't sound good. 

I love CD, The Blues, and IRS. But I dont understand all this head over heels in love shit with the new voice. Please go listen to Riyadh on Axl's Osaka Monitor Mix. Then come back and post views on the new voice.

I do have to agree some PPBEBE

Steven Tyler did the Get A Grip album in his 40's and some of the notes he hits are just insane.

Take the song "Crazy" for instance, I use to think it was just Joe Perry's guitar at the end, but that is steven matching it, unbelievable.


Facts are, Axl was always a somewhat flawed live singer, so when people hear him now, they forget that he wasnt ever the greatest live singer to begin with.


I had a video of GNR rehearsing Coma at RIR2 during their soundcheck, and Axl's voice was so incredible on that.

Yep.
Whether To beat stage fright or to enliven the show, he is always bustling and hardly sings still on stage, which makes him one of the greatest RN'R live performers and not the greatest live singer.

Lives are for the spectators. He doesn't sing for bootleggers anyway. :D

The reason axl does not always sound great live is  because he runs around too much. If he just stood there and sung he would sound amazing. Just look at the HOB show, and how he sounded. He sounded great because of the small stage.

As for the oska monitor mix,  that is from the montior so its going to sound different than really sounds. And why take a show he sounded blah on instead of one he sounded great. The only thing that matters is how he will sound on the album and he will sound amazing.

and?