Here Today... Gone To Hell!

   has anyone ever considered the posibility that axl might look to see what his fanbase thinks?  because if i was axl and came in here,i'd be pissed with all the nagativity that comes from his supposed diehards.  maybe it was ready,  maybe he was ready and got all pissed because of the little bit of positives doesn't outweigh the negatives.  i mean someone's always bitchin bout the sound, the direction, the members, the delays, the tour, and the list goes on and on.  did he finally just say fuck it, maybe when they're ready to move on i will be.  no news,  no updates  maybe it'll be another 7 years before he thinks we'll be ready again?  the question is, have some of us contributed to our own demise????????

no i don't think so

I think anyone can see that the negativity on here is directed mainly at frustrations about no new album

besides with all the traffic this site (and other GnR sites) see, and the sales of GH, I would consider it encouraging. It show there is still lots of interest in GnR

don't think so but i wouldn't blame him. the last thing he needs is his own fans turning on him. makes me sick to watch.

I don't think we contribute to any of that.  It's plain to see that fans are frustrated.

Why would he give a shit?  He didn't seem to care when he broke up the original band.  I think that Axl knows that you can't make everybody happy.  The blame falls ultimately onto Axl for the turmoil, delays, cancellations, no information, mebers quitting, etc.

     i feel like most of you too.  but it's just an insight into axl's fucked up mind.  he truly has some serious issues.  famous last words---------round one!!!!

I hope not!
but who knows, maybe Axl is afraid to put out the album, and maybe we're the reason for it!

Haha, I posted something to that effect in the Ny times article thread.

I don't realistically believe so. I hope none of the GN'R members read all those nasty bashings from the"fans".

Just if I were him I would definitely hesitate to throw the apple of my eye to a bunch of morons oops I mean the people without understanding. 
Music is a language and when it doesn't make sense for the listeners, it sucks. It's like wanking in public. It will pisse off the musicians who put their all heart and soul (and a good quarter of their live) into it, even if it sells well.

Then again, No, it don't really matter!
When it would take a lot more time than you've got for masturbation but all I got is precious time, why should I wait?
If I were him I would release it just for the advanced few of the fans and for the potential fans of the world and never mind the bollocks!  : ok:

Good news is that, cbeier78, he's not you or me. :D

   gilld1, do some research.  Ignorant statements like that probably don't deserve a response...so I won't give you one.  There were several reasons for the break-up, and several responsible parties.

   Back to possible fan contribution to the delay and no news...it's like saying a woman is to blame for getting her ass kicked by an abusive boyfriend.  It definitely aint our fault...and it may not be Axl's either...hopefully we learn more when/if CD appears.

-Axl4prez2004   

Actually, I think the opposite is true. I think the hardcore GNR fanbase could actually SPEED UP the release, but it would take major willpower on our part. I think if everybody at all the GNR forums stopped posting, for a long period of time, it would quicken the albums release. Axl and Geffen/Interscope/Sanctuary would see that frustrations are getting out of control, and he could possibly lose his main fanbase that's guaranteed to buy CD the first day of release. Geffen,Interscope, and Sanctuary might be able to come up with some sort of an agreement with Axl to release CD while there's still a fanbase to buy it. Of course, this scenario would only work if every single person stopped coming to the forums, basically, an almost impossible task. I think the only way it could be puled off is if Jarmo and the people who own the other forums were to shut them all down.   

jameslofton,
  I've thought the same thing before...but then I came to the conclusion I was being a bit wacky and unrealistic.  1st off, it can't happen.  Sure Jarmo and whatever the other sites are shut down, but new ones would open up to take over. 
  2nd, sometimes I think we oversestimate our importance.  This is part of the reason I admire Axl.  The finished product has nothing to do with pleasing anyone but himself and the band.  Sure, it's frustrating as hell, because we don't even get updated on progress, etc...but some people like to operate in seclusion.  My brother is very much like this. 
  Let's try not to act like, "little people on a power trip."   :hihi:

Mostly on this site there is not very much "bashing" on the sound or the band or especially Axl. People are frustrated about the lack of well...anything. Thats not to say there are not ?pricks that just bash everything that Guns does and say the new songs suck. Relatively I just don't notice much bashing and ?more support

Prez, thanks for having mercy on me and not giving me some long winded bullshit tirade about all the reasons the band broke up and blah, blah, blah.  You said it yourself, Axl does what Axl wants.  Axl wanted to change the band after UYI and the decisions he made alienated the others hence, they broke up.  It's now Axl's band and the rsponsiblity, like it or not, is soley his, Slash and Izzy aren't there anymore to pick up the slack.

To be honest, I don't think the fans matter much at all with anything that has to do with this situation.   Axl does whatever he wants no matter what and that is his right.  To be fans of the new GNR you get used that pretty quick.  Bascially we have nothing since the tour and if you didn't see them on tour, you really have nothing.   The only thing the forums prove is that there are a significant amount of people still interested in this band and maybe that is taken for granted, maybe James has a point.  As impossible as it would be to do, maybe Axl thinks, they have been with there this long and they will be there however long.

Someone needs to hire a plane with a sign that reads RELEASE CD!!! and circle it over Axl's mansion. Otherwise fans will have no real affect on Axl.  Expressing love for Axl hasnt worked, because this board sent him a bunch of easy questions.

DTJ, exactly! Axl completely takes his fan base for granted. You're right. He thinks,'Well, they've sat on their ass for 12 years, whats another 12 gonna hurt?" Its pathetic. Its time for us hardcore fans to make some sort of impact in regards to this unrealistic wait. Whether its shutting the forums down, or something even more imaginative. We need to put our heads together and think of something. People, dont forget this fact: We have more power than you think. Without us, Axl is nothing. We continue filling his pockets full of money. We have power in this situation, we just haven't figured out how to use it yet.

As much as I may agree with this, what could we possibly do?  Most people are going read these last couple of posts and have a field day with what we are saying.   There is nothing to boycott, forums aren't going to shut down, we can't threaten not to buy the album when it does come out cause damn it it's been so long I have to get that in my hands ;D and petitions don't do squat [never a big petition person anyway].   All we can do sadly is sit and wait or just give up and with so much time invested it's kinda hard to walk away with out closure of some sort.  Like an announcment that Axl has given up and will not finish this project or something to that effect.

DTJ, it is hard to think of something that would work, besides a forum shutdown. Maybe a MASS protest outside his house? It would get CD in the mainstream news. I also think a boycott on buying official GNR products is definitely needed, it would hurt where it counts, his pockets. I have actually been doing this for along time. Whenever I buy Axl shirts, they are not official products. And whenever you get a GNR album, get a bootleg of it. You're right, petitions dont work. Another protest could be done outside Interscope headquarters. If we tried to pull this off, it would have to be highly organized. I cant think of much else we could try to do, maybe someone else can think of something. And before people start flaming me about discussing boycotting this site, it is not to disrespect any of the posters, the mods, or Jarmo. Obviously, Jarmo would have to be involved for that scenario to work.

Never thought of a Street Team so to speak to boycott GNR products :-\  I don't know James, I don't think too many will want to be apart of it.  It's very, very extreme but in some strange way, it could work. 

You're right. Not many people would have the balls to do it, but I know it would work. Because if no one buys the products, its not just Axl that loses money, its alot of other companies that lose money. Only then, Axl would finally understand the meaning of the word 'pressure'. Another thing to boycott is movies with GNR songs in them. I still havent seen 'Big Daddy', 'Cant Hardly Wait', and whatever newer movies have the old songs. I'm not falling for the scam anymore. Axl says he wants to 'bury' AFD. Thats a joke! If he wanted to 'bury' it, you wouldnt hear 'Jungle' everywhere you go. You cant even watch a sporting event without hearing the song every few minutes. He doesnt want to bury it, he wants to wallow in it.

   This post made me laugh my ass off.  Just picture that!  How hilarious would that be?  The pilot would be one of us wacked-out fans just muttering obscenities as we're putting on our flight helmet...turning up the volume on IRS, put that bad-boy on repeat on the CD player, and go for a low fly-over repeatedly over Axl's mansion...hilarious.


   As for Jameslofton29, I've got to hand it to you, you're the most energetic poster I've seen in a long time.   You've even got some folks even considering the wacky boycott idea.  If record companies offering millions of dollars can't convince W. Axl to release this thing, you really think we have a chance?  That's insanity!   :rofl:  I swear to god, if Axl doesn't check this site out (which I'd bet he doesn't) the rest of the new band HAS to have at least taken a peak...even if it's to get a laugh at some of these posts.  I'm sure the comedy in all of this isn't lost on them!   :hihi:

-Axl4prez2004

Axl4Prez, the boycott idea is pretty damn good. You say if record companies giving him millions doesnt help, how could we? Here's how. A boycott is a chain reaction of lost money. It would effect, Axl, Geffen/Interscope, Sanctuary, cd distributors, record stores,tshirt distributors, movie companies that use GNR songs,radio stations,magazines, sporting events, book publishers,etc. Combined, they would lose more money in one year than has been spent on this project. If every single GNR fan participated in this boycott, CD would be released within a few months.

i can tell your hearts in the right place James, but it's kind of a lose/lose situation for the fans there I think
cutting off your nose to spite your face  :hihi:

Jimmy, you're wrong. Doing what I just mentioned is real 'pressure'. A bunch of companies losing truckloads of money over one single thing will make them find a solution to their problem: the release of CD. Corporations wont just sit back and watch their profits fall because Axl gets off on 'finishing touches'.

  Wasn't there a small-scale boycott of Greatest Hits?  It just went double-platinum.  What would we be boycotting exactly?  Posting at a fan-site?  Like I said, I love your energy, but if you don't think Axl's been pressured with the threats of lost money already, you're fooling yourself. 

-Axl4prez  :peace:

I'm all for affirmative action James, i just don't see enough people getting on board for any kind of boycott to have any real impact or exert enough pressure for them to force CD out. Let's be realistic here

Yeah, I know it wouldnt work. Too many people in his fanbase are the 'Axl is God' type, so we could never pull it off. It would have to include everybody being involved, or it wouldn't work. And Axl4Prez, I'm not talking about a mini-boycott of the hits CD. The one I described would have a much more serious impact.

yeah, I dont know if outside of these forums theres that many diehard Axl fans - he's got a bit of a cult following though

I think the average real diehard Gunner fan out there is resoundingly a fan of 87-93 era.
Then youve got diehards (like myself and others here) who love Axl and 87-93 era, who are curious as to what Axl is going to produce and also very excited, but still a little uncomforatble with Axl using the name etc..
And then theres the other fans you speak of - blind Axl zealots, who think he can do/did no wrong and dont give 87-93 era band any credit

i believe the latter are a minority (this may change with CD, who knows) there are quite a few like myself, but the majority are in the first camp I mentioned

The idea of an Internet boycott has already been suggested, and it's just not gonna happen. Even if all the members of all the message boards agreed to boycott GN'R products (I personnally wouldn't, because I think it's a stupid and useless idea), it wouldn't have much of an impact on sales. Thoses sales are not made from our little virtual community, but from the average joes of the world. How are you going to convince those people? It's a plan that's bound to fail.

I would suggest shutting down this, and other message boards, just as a test to see what would happen over the next 3-6 months. Would be interesting, especially if the Guns camp is utilizing these message boards to "test" ideas, rumours, etc.

/Dignan.

the idea of boycotting axl via the internet makes me laugh. the impact will be zero to none.
axl will deliver when he's ready to deliver, and that's that. not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Pandora, you make a good point. Alot of the albums sold are from new fans. But you have to admit that its a brilliant idea. I think it would have impact. With no forums, the GNR camp would just have to guess what his fan base is feeling. The boycott would work. Believe me, if NBA arenas started to have a couple hundred empty seats each night because a GNR boycott was going on, people would take notice. Same thing with new movies. If a popular movie that also had a GNR song was expected to be #1 its opening week, but ended up at #3, people would take notice. Also, dont buy ANY albums that are released by Geffen/Interscope. Its time we join together and take a stand.

I think it's the most inane thing I've read here in a while. What does the record company have to do with that? GN'R not releasing an album won't stop me from buying any record I damn please, whether the band is on Interscope or Planet Mars Records.
And once again, how are you going to convince the average joes of the world? Any form of boycott is absolutely useless and would only serve to show how powerless we are.

This is quite a strong point.  It's very true, the only way Merck, Axl, the band and Geffen know what the fans are feeling are because of the forums.  I wonder what would happen if there was complete silence on our end.

What does the record company have to do with it?? They are the main reason for the delays. They have provided no real pressure whatsoever. All the 'average joes' dont have to be involved in the boycott. Sure, it would have greater impact with them, but it could still be pulled off. Its just that no one ever tries it, so how can we know what effect it will have if it hasn't been done yet?

DTJ, if there was complete silence, it would send the GNR camp into 'desperation mode':" Where are they? Why aren't they talking about me anymore? Do they still care? I better release this album before I run out of fans and money! Damn, I hope they still wanna buy it!" This is what needs to be injected into this situation. 12 years of fans sitting there like robots hasnt worked. We gotta try a new approach.

That's if you assume that putting pressure would work. I said it before and I'll say it again : I don't think Axl is someone who would bow under pressure. That kind of tension would only make matters worse. The only way through which they might be able to release it is the legal way, and we don't even know if it's possible since we have no idea how Axl's contract is worded.
I personnally don't blame the record company for the delays in any way, shape or form. I'm actually quite admirative that they didn't put more pressure on Axl in this day and age when artists must be as productive and commercial as possible.

As far as shutting down message boards, it has been suggested several times over the years. Jarmo is not taking part in it. And he's damn right IMO.

I have to say, you have really something there, you really do..  That is probably what would happen but you know the reality of the situation.

Yeah, DTJ, the reality is that there isn't enough people willing to protest the situation. So the unrealistic wait shall continue..

this is ridicilous. if anything, people will start really wondering about what the hell is wrong with axl when his fans are so desperate for news that they boycott everything that has to do with him. some fans...

Is it really?  What about if it's 2007 and still nothing from Axl.  How, as a fan will you feel?  I am not saying you would hate the guy but wouldn't you as a fan feel somewhat "boycotted" from him.   Somewhat disappointed that the person you so admire, so enjoy his talent, so enjoy his being, that the silence to the fans is dissheartening?  If he never came back in 2002, this would be a mute point.  The fact he did comeback with all the promises and then to disappear without any real info as to what is happening as a fan, how can it not make you feel bad?  I know your faith in him, keeps you from feeling as frustrated as some of us feel.  I haven't lost all my faith but after so many years, I have lost some and I can't say I am not jaded somewhat.  James wants to act, not many people are going be that extreme.  But you can surely see where he is coming from.

to be honest with you i just feel that this is axl, he always did what he wanted to do and i respect him for that, i look forward to chinese democracy but until he feels like releasing it i'll just enjoy his old music. people seem to forget that it's axl rose we're talking about here, the same axl rose that caused riots fighting fans, wore kilts on stage and just took the world by storm by doing things his way. all of a sudden we expect that same person to answer to us and do things the way we want him to do it. be realistic, axl isn't gonna bow down to anybody. have you ever seen axl do that? even ten years later he's still a rebel, most artists are the whores of their record companies, axl just gives them the finger and does things his way, taking his sweet time doing it good. and that's part of the reason why i respect him so much.

August, if 2007 comes and there's no CD, its over. End of story. As most people here would agree, you go through stages in this wait for CD. You 'move on' from time to time. It could be a lover, school, a job, etc. You move on. But you always get interested in CD again and come back to the forums to see whats happening. I really enjoy all the discussions I have with all of you guys, but if CD isnt hear by 2007, not only are most people gonna move on, they're gonna take a permanent vacation from CD.

We've been hearing that for 5 years. Even if you're gone, somebody else will be there to replace you, I don't worry about it one second.

Pandora, you're right, we've been hearing that for 5 years. But how many more 5 year intervals do you think the fanbase can stand? You think this forum will have as much activity in 2010 with no CD? And as far as your comments about me being replaced: Thats a laugh!! Once the hardcore give up, they cant be replaced. There's a big difference between those who have been fans since 87 and a 14 yr old kid new fan who hears Jungle for the first time.

It's strange that James keeps talking about the boycott. Some of you hasn't realized that Axl boycotted his fans.

BTW James is right that only the hardcore internet fans can do something since like it or not we are the opinion leaders in our micro societies when it's about Guns N' Roses. But it's insane to think that the record company or Axl would believe that we won't buy the album or won't buy another AFD cd if ours is broken. No. Some give up, but it's only for a period of time. If the album comes out (cause there is still a chance for that) they'll come back, listen CD and decide whether they like it or not.

Man, you've been registered on this forum for less than a year. Before you, there were other people, some of whom left. And after you, there will be other people as well. And it won't mean that they're any less hardcore than you.
I personnally don't give a damn whether you're 14 and just discovering the band or a 40-year-old veteran. Some younger fans look pretty hardcore to me.

Pandora, I may have been a member for only a year, but I visited the forum off and on since the 90's. I was one of those guests you see visiting the forum. And as far as people coming and going: Its pretty much the same people. Its guests deciding to finally become a member, or a member changing their name. No way in hell these new fans can replace us, you give the 'newbies' too much credit. This young generation is fickle. They'll like GNR one minute, Eminem the next. Lifelong fans cant be replaced by a generation seeking instant gratification.

If you want to boycott the band, stop posting. It's really as simple as that.

I'm not planning on shutting down the site because some of you want to send a "message" to the band.




/jarmo

Jarmo, if you read my posts discussing my boycott idea, you'll know that it doesn't work if one person boycotts. I was more into the idea of boycotting GNR products than a forum shutdown. You really dont think either option would have an impact? Good comment on telling me not to post. Ever since I brought up the boycott subject, I expected a mod to suggest that to me, I kind of opened myself up to it. I figured that Pandora would have suggested it, But you beat everyone to the punch. Congrats! LMAO!!

What GN'R products?





/jarmo

I totally respect Axl for who he is and the rebel he is, that's part of what I love about him.? ?But I just still feel that he is away for far too long.? It's frustration plain and simple.? He doesn't give a damn about what WE want him to do you're right and to be honest with you, I wouldn't expect him too.? I would think he would want to comeback and show the world what he is made of again already, take the world by storm, the more he waits, the less "respected" he is going to get by his fans, the media and his peers, you have been seeing it already in especially in the last year now, more and more fans are showing frustration on the forums.? ? Taking his sweet time is an understatement, I can see 3 years maybe 4 but he has started this project since 1999....

axl will be respected no matter what. he has one of the largest fan bases in the world, over ten years after he left the public eye voluenteerly. so all this will be forgotten once axl makes an appearance, you people will be all over him again praising what he has done when the new record comes or go nuts at one of his concerts. there's no question about it. just be patient and live your lives, do other stuff. and you know what? i've gotten so used to the wait, it'll seem un-real when this thing drops, everybody will be all over him again. and maybe axl feels the same way. maybe he's not entirely ready to be in the spotlight again, giving interviews and doing shows, basically being the spotlight of the world again. he probably knows how much power this new material's got, so he's "afraid" to release it, knowing where it'll take him. he wants the timing to be just right and the band to be ready 100%, seeing as they will be plastered all over the media once chinese democracy is released. and don't say the interest won't be big outside of his fanbase, this album is already mythic and legendary all over even though it's never been released. the world and all music critics are watching axl like hawks, just waiting to jump all over chinese democracy. the fans expect this thing to be the best thing they've ever heard. axl himself wants to make this the best damn record ever. imagine the pressure. no, i don't think you can.

August, no doubt that when the album comes out I will be all over it, that's for sure but the difference here is that I feel he is taking too long, that is where we agree to disagree.  I know Axl will make a kick ass album, I know and you know it and so does everybody.  I only hope that it's this year.  I do live my life, always have but I am a regular to the forums and just because I come on here and I don't praise the fact the it's taking so long, doesn't mean I don't live my life.

I need to start boycotting these threads.  :nervous:

GREAT post, DTJ!! I am also sick of how certain posters tell us to "live our lives". The people who say that are usually either here or at mygnr 24 hours a day. We are all living our lives!! DTJ has her own shit going, and so do I. The times I post here is usually after writing a few pages in my novel, and I like to see whats going on here. I actually enjoy the discussions we all have. Just because we get frustrated doesn't mean we dont have lives. As far as I know, life and time itself didn't stop when Axl uttered the words 'Chinese Democracy'.

Some people are fickle, some aren't. When I got into the band 14 years ago, I was 13 and a lot of people who had been fans since the very beginning were spitting in the face of the younger kids, calling them "fickle" like you are. And in a way, they were right. A lot of those so-called fans don't care anymore. But some have remained, and that includes me. That's why I'll never call the newer fans fickle. If they're serious about liking the band, and I do believe most of them are since GN'R are not as fashionable as they used to be, then I welcome them with open arms  :peace: