Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I'm not sure what percentage of HTGTH users here are diehard Radiohead fans (though I consider myself a very casual one). It's just that lately I've been reflecting on what kinds of albums from the past, say, 20 years, are widely considered landmark recordings in rock/pop. I've always been interested in the climate of each album around the time of its release, and what various factors led to it becoming such a phenomenal success. Very frequently the most obvious factor is musical taste, and what kinds of trends are generally popular at the time. Sometimes the trends will just be starting to churn from underground, and all it takes is a couple of records emblematic of those sounds (i.e. Nirvana's "Nevermind," Pearl Jam's "Ten," etc.) to blast the style into the stratosphere and make it the hottest new musical trend of an era.

As music progressed toward the late '90s, I got the sense that rock music in particular just wasn't feeling as exciting or revolutionary as it did years earlier. Furthermore, I admit that at the time I was hardly aware of "O.K. Computer" - or Radiohead, for that matter - when it was released in '97...but then years later, when I became more aware of recent music history, I was amazed to read about just how groundbreaking that album was considered upon its release. Sometimes I would give anything to go back in time and re-live an era with new perspective, and appreciate certain types of music when they're fresh.

My open question though is: As increasingly unlikely as it may seem, is there anyone else out there with a similar sensation - that if/when GN'R's "Chinese Democracy" is released, it may have the same impact, or reach the same status that "O.K. Computer" did in '97, a time when rock music in general was similarly perceived as a "dying" breed? I'm not saying that it will be identical to "O.K. Computer" in sound necessarily - although a lot of recent speculation about what "C.D." may sound like has reminded me an awful lot of what "O.K.C." represented (straightforward guitar rock mixed with heavy doses of "electronic" noises to achieve an atmospheric, epic feel). In short, whether you like it or not, "O.K.C." is considered by a majority of music fans/critics to be among the most important and influential albums of the '90s, creating an unusual rock sound that was both familiar and alien - and yet could still reach massive critical and commercial success.

I'm really curious as to what others may think of this, if they haven't already shared their input (without me realizing it). If this is considered a horribly redundant thread, then I apologize for wasting time. This just came out of a moment of pure inspiration I had a while ago, thinking about music now, and where it may be heading...and the whole recent spectacle of "Live8" has really fuelled my passion for music in general. I just hope that, whatever's going on in the GN'R camp of late, that something - ANYTHING - will come to fruition, and prove to the world that GN'R have not perished and "gone to hell" (to borrow from the site name).

P.S. - Happy Fourth of July to all the Americans on this board!? :)

It will be awfully hard for any band to top OKC by Radiohead, it is perhaps the best album of the last 10+ years.  It wasn't just a critics album, many other musicians in other well known bands raved about OKC.  CD could be bigger in sales but in impact, who knows?  It all depends on the chops that Axl brings to the table.

I dont think CD will revolutionize the industry, or start a trend, etc. Those are unrealistic expectations. CD is going to sell millions of copies. Its going to get ALOT of media attention before and after its release. Whatever year its released, it will be one of the Top 10 stories of the year. Then the hysteria will die down, and alot of people will be happy it came out, and they will move on.

I hope CD will sell better.

you can't just take OKC as a reference.
First there are a lot of people that dont like this cd.
music is about taste. and OKC please some people that like its very specific boring sound.
and is sooo overrated because music was dull at that time.
97 was a dead year. thats why people care about okc.

CD will come when music is everywhere. ipods are all over the place. people carry 20 gb of music with them. 50 cents releases a cd every month.

marilyn manson or rage against the machine did so much more than radiohead. radiohead was a trend. radiohead is merely cited by critics.
manson (who has, i'm sure, 5% of radiohead musica talent) blew the world away.

thats what CD will do; i dont want critics to talk about it. i want everybody to be blown away.

James, I agree 100% with this statement. ? ?They did that in old GNR [AFD], I don't know if Axl and New GNR can pull something as vast as that, in this type of music industry again. ?

No, manson shocked the world.

Radiohead blew the world away.  Radiohead achieved an entirely new sound.  Manson copied an old sound, and revived it a little.

chinese democracy will be the defining record of this decade, there is no doubt about it. even if the material doesn't live up to it's hype, the hype alone will carve it's way into rock and roll history.

Am I the only person here that thinks Radiohead completely blows, except for maybe 2 songs?

-Jeff

Nope!!! I'm not a big fan of them either

who fricken care I just want the damn album

U think they have as many as 2 good songs?

I pray C.D has nothing in common with Radiohead in anyway, shape or form

radiohead is more boring than counting grays of sand and should not in any shape or form be compared to guns n' roses. ever.

radio head   should be called fag alert.

blasphemer, that was hella funny!! Thanks for the laugh!

I do like Ok computer. Otherwise the works I like are of some major ones such as NIN, White Stripes, some retro bands e.g. Zep n Can and some minorities possibly you've never heard of...
As I rarely read pop/ rock reviews I don't know what they say. Are they (critics) any good?
What did the critics who rate OKC high say about AFD back in the old days? Anyone?

Sound wise, I prefer this GN'R to the old, with that I no way mean the latter (OLD GN'R) not great.
Just this hybrid version is something else.
It's the current lineup that made me, a casual fan choosy about music but too fickle to be a fanatic of a specific band, a maniac.

Tommy says it will make all hell break loose. Hell, Brain even says it gonna be the Zeppelin 2nd.
I dare say the odds are Chinese Democracy will surpass OKC easy n peasy. : ok:

Hey Americans Happy Independence Day! :beer:

If u want a priceless album go buy    Nola  by the group called  "down"        One of the greastest unknown records of all time.  But the true rockers should already know about this one.

OK Computer is a masterpiece

Some of you people need to broaden your horizons a little

I also think along with Achtung Baby, it is a very good reference point for CD (in terms of how we've heard the new material described)

Well, to me, the old GN'R seemed to have been based on Aerosmith while this new band seems to have been based on Led Zeppelin. I am not too sure but I think C-Democracy will sound like Zeppelin + NIN + Garbage + Radiohead + old GN'R mixed in to create something cool.

I.R.S seems very Led Zeppelin-ish, (well, to me anyways) Chinese Democracy seems very grungy, while The Blues sounds a lot like UYI II. But who the hell knows now, Axl is always puting on "finishing touches" so who knows what it will sound like now.

I feel this record will be more diverse than any old records. (even UYI II) Definately....I can tell you right now that a lot of the "Appetite only" fans won't like as Axl likes to keep people wondering what kind of sub-genre he's trying to play. For some reason I think C-D will have a Kashmir-type of song in it....Hah, I haven't talked about the album like this in a long time.....heh.

Too bad it's not out.... :hihi: :drool:

After all this time, the money, the fan support and the musicians, I expect a daring, eclectric, traditional and at the same time progressive album.

And I'm sure Axl has better sources than Radiohead to find inspiration for that.

"O.K.Computer" is just one of the most pretentious, boring and overrated albums of all time. Their lead singer obviously just sucked a little too hard on Michael Stipe's cock.

I think CD will be like OK in the sense of diversity between songs. On OK, almost every track is distinctly different yet held together by Yorke's musings on modern life and it's trappings. The album is an absolute masterpiece. Radiohead will never top it, especially considering the direction they went after it. It is the Dark Side of the Moon of the 90's. I continue to try to envision CD as a heavy metal OKC or Achtung Baby. One can dream can't he? 8) 8) 8)

Blasphemer, that album does kick ass!!!!! :beer: I just listened to it last week : ok:

A Bustle In Your Hedgerow, their 2nd album, was wicked too, and it was written and recorded in less than a month!!!

Are you serious?

sign me up too, please! :peace:

Nesquick, heavy metal was the wrong word-a hard rock OKC! Is that better? :rofl: ::)  :nervous:

Ok, stop whining about Radiohead please.... It's pretty pointless listing people who hate that band in the GN'R section.




/jarmo

Personally, I would love to see Chinese Democracy achieve the kind of stylistic diversity, yet continuity of strength that O.K. Computer did for Radiohead.  In other words, I'll consider it an impressive artistic achievement if it's all killer-no filler, with a wide range of influences being pulled through the Guns N' Roses filter.

Ali

I went to a radiohead show in Paris almost 2 years ago, that's not one of my favourite band? but that was a great show. the guitar player and the bassist are amazing! This is a great band. Their music is quite special, it's not energizing Rock music like GN'R, but they have their own universe. However, it's pretty depressing music. Definitely. That's one of the bad point of this band. They are great in what they do, but this is special.

Thom Yorke is a great Live singer, however he doesn't have a lot of charisma/stage presence. He is not a beast on stage like Axl or Steven Tyler or any other monsters of Rock. He is pretty shy. Not explosive. But he was great though.

Personally, I love the rare diversity of the fan bases GN'R has achieved, despite the fact it's mostly a mere pain in the ass.  :hihi:

Is it that the majority of metal heads hate Radioheads?

Heavy metal #1
I was bout to ask the same....
Then again, what genres are Dark Side of the Moon OKC and Achtung Baby in?
My grandma would put down all of them as "Beatles". :hihi:
I urge that GN'R should create its own genre this time so that the band can fled from the labelling buisiness.

Heavy metal #2

Beauty is in the eye of beholder and not in mine on this one, Sorry.
I guess I look for some lyricism  in music.

I think OK Computer is one of the best rock albums in the last 12 years. Paranoid Android is the better song IMO. I can only hope to see Axl doing something like that, it would be amazing.

I agree with Indiana Rose. I guess CD will be something more like Zep with new trends, more Kashimir and less Mama Kin. But I'm pretty sure we'll hear a lot of Queen there too, as it's one of Axl's biggest influences.

It could not work for you, but it's their style. Yorke never wanted to be a "rock star" like Tyler or Axl. His lyrics are depressing, and that's what the fans like it. Sorry if it's not your taste.

re-read what I said, I said it was a great band and that the show was great. my comment was positive. : ok:

Read again MY post. You said "pretty depressing music" as "one of the bad point of this band". Also, you said "pretty shy" and "not explosive", as if it wasn't meant to be like this.
Anyways, this thread is not about Radiohead itself.

I would think that Axl would be very pleased if CD earned the respect from other musicians, fans, and critics on the same level as OKC.  Radiohead has a huge following, sell well, and fill up arenas around the world, I don't think Axl would mind doing that.....maybe.

IndiannaRose, interesting that you said you thought there would be a 'Kashmir' on CD. The first time I heard the words 'Big Guns" used, I immediately thought of Kashmir.

So apparently Phil Anselmo rights crappy lryics u say.         

Gypsy Note:? I'm posting this here because IMO it sorta is on topic, or as we say at my job: "close enough for government work.? :P

It just so happens that in SPIN mags 20th Anniversary Special Issue they list their 100 Greatest Albums and 'OK Computer' is their #1 pick.? They (obviously) couldn't compare that album to 'Chinese Democracy' but their #18 pick is 'Appetite for Destruction'.? So here's their list and I included the write-ups on Radiohead, Guns N' Roses, and Tommy's former band The Replacements (whose album 'Tim' made the list at #32).

(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/spin705a.jpg)
(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/spin705b.jpg)

(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/spin705c.jpg)
(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/spin705d.jpg)

rock n roll history as the biggest , longest running joke ever! Really though , if the material is shit then axk will never , ever live it down. If it sells slower then "Contraband" or any other VR album , he'll never live that down.

the critics/media will eat him alive , forcing him further into seclusion then ever.  :nervous:

I agree with that. This album is not the defining moment of rock n roll, but the defining moment of Axl's life: as the ultimate comeback rocker or the ultimate goat. Alot is on the line.

And you just have to realize that unless this album IS something very very very special , like an album you only get once , maybe twice a lifetime , unless it's that good you know the journalists allready have their reviews written. They've been written , for years. They just need the album to fill in the few blanks now empty on the review , like track names , musicans .. probably even down to album art.

All will be under the finest of microscopes , only because it's "been so long" .

I expect the critics to shrug this album off, too little too late is what they will say. Axl isn't very liked in the music world.

As an example, War of the Worlds was a very good film, but there were a signficant number of surprisingly sour reviews. They were most likely tied to Mr. Tom Cruise's Xenu enfused rants in the publicity run up. Critics are human and they don't like artists who act out in ways Axl has been known to.

Thanks Gypsy for the article. Cool read... : ok:
I def agree with you, Saul. The press is already skeptical about the album, and even if Axl put out something really good, they will bash him. I remember a review from the VMA's. Some asshole said Madagascar sounds "boring", "dated" and "cheap". I don't know if those were the exactly words, but it was something like that. Well, I submitted Madagascar to a lot of non-gnr fans and they all loved the song, even if some people didn't know that Slash wasn't playing on that tune.

Yes. Madagascar usually stands up to my blind tatse tests , IE: play it for groups of friends and not tell them who it is or when it was recorded.

But I have had people say it sounds too much like someone trying to put a modern spin on a led zep type sound/song.  ???

Saul and Vector, I disagree. I think the critics will surprisingly have an open mind when reviewing CD. They are just as intrigued by this album as we are. Sure, there'll be a few spiteful reviews, but most will take an honest look at it. If it sucks, they'll say so. If its great, they'll say so. Remember, Illusions got pretty good reviews, even though Axl was bashing the media at the time. They're not gonna give CD one star or an F just because Axl 'took so long'.

Hey Saul, how's this for a taste test: I played the new songs for my mom, and she thought it was 'old' GNR. LMAO!!

hmm , but what "era" of old gnr? afd or uyi?

I guarantee you that almost every major media review will site how long this album took and the connotation will not be positive. The length of this process will be viewed as a detriment.

Saul, I think she meant 'UYI' era GNR. She always hated AFD, but liked 'November Rain', 'Estranged', 'Yesterdays', and 'Dust N Bones'.

well then I can kinda agree with that assesment. Madagascar does have that plodding , building type feel to it of Nov Rain and Estranged.

we wont have any idea the significance of this album untill it comes out,
at the time of O.K computers release (im not a huge radio head fan- but i am thinking of buying this disc since...its the best?)      the album might be good, but will it be considered "a classic album"  like dark side of the moon in 30 years?.   how long did it take dark side to become a classic?  certainly not before it was released as we're speculating chinesse democracy to be.

we dont know how something will influence the world before it was ever made-   its like saying back in 1800 (or whatever)..  i cant wait for picassos next painting,  its going to change the art world-   heck- picasso's influence was'nt even felt untill sometime after he died and his paintings were great not only for its time-  but for times after as well.   

i guess what im trying to say is axl should cut off his own ear..no...wait.

but you all see my point anyways-   30 years from now O.k. computer might be down somewhere on that list around the 15-16 area,  and that Down album might be at the top?, 

CD should have a 4 part grading scale that all the critics should answer to....

1-How does it compare to Old GNR
2- How does it compare to the present
3-How is the album by just listening to it without all the history and drama
4- Was it worth the wait


If they can sorta review the album liek that then maybe they wont bombard the review with all the negativity. I dont care if a journalist doesnt like it..as long as they dont like it cause the music sux not becuase theres no Slash and Axl is an Asshole...then its fine with me. Just review the music

 U realize your post is a total contradiction & makes no sense, right? 1st u say to compare it to old GNR, then u say it's alright not to like it, just as long as it's not because Slash isn't there. Then they're supposed to judge it without paying attention to all the drama/waiting, then it's was it worth the wait?
 All reviewrs should just simply go in with an open mind & judge the music on it's merit. Doesn't matter if it's GNR or N'Sync, it's just how good is it.

that was van gogh. ::)
but thanx for the laugh though. ;D

It can suck compared to old gnr not just because of the old mebers are gone but because of the feel of the album, the attitude,vibe, etc. No directly player for player.

I agree with ur last statement..it should just be judged for what it is. But it wont be. ANd being thats the case if the reviewer can break it down then we can get a more honest review

i must agree that younggunner's post was a total contradiction.

and i thought i was captain obvious  ::)

Well said  :peace:

Ok Computer is a masterpiece indeed.

I would name Zooropa(or even Pop) would be a better reference point.

Funny how everyone keeps using a U2 reference when referring to CD. Not a bad reference though. I've said this awhile back when U2's new album came out, but I'll say it again: CD is gonna sell in large numbers. But, if Axl wants this album all over the radio and wants people of all ages to get into it, he needs a first single similar to 'Vertigo'. That was one of the catchiest tunes released in many years. Genius move by Bono in having that song as the 1st single. It caused the album to sell immediately after its release. Axl needs a first single that not just hardcore fans like, but a song that old people dig and young kids can dance to.

I doubt it will have any sort of OKC type of resonance, I don't think that's even realistic at this point in the game. 

.
well it's certainly not a bad benchmark to strive towards

I think the similarities probably begin and end with the melting pot of influences and the infusion of classic elements with modern, cutting edge sounds

well theres a difference with CD and OKC, OKC was thier breakthrough album, CD wont be for GN'R. they already had a breakthrough with AFD.

You're right to a degree, some would say "The Bends" was their breakthrough and OK Computer was the solidification or confirmation of them becoming a major force

Absolutely, the standard should be set high.

It's just that GNR have never been exactly "cutting edge", ?never groundbreaking by any stretch of the imagination.

Ugh, something awesome like Guns N' Roses compared with arguably the most overated, dullest and generally pretentious band in music history.

Radiohead is great music for when you have a boner, and you need it to go down. :hihi:

Without disrespect tom yorke, I think Axl is an another dimension artist and knows better than yorke how to make a great record. I don't remember "ok computer" supposed success in 1997. In 1997, I spent my time in nighclubs dancing on house music, stardust, modjo, armand van halden, bob sinclar to name a few, that was all over the place in Paris and Cannes! : ok:
I used to like the backstreets boys also, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

"oooh baby, I feel right, music sounds better with youu", fucking brillant 8)

Radiohead isn't just Yorke and some guys playing their instruments.  1 through 5 they are one of the most solid bands around. 

Nesquick, just because you were too busy dropping E and dancing in foam and bubbles and all that shit to realize that OKC was big means it didn't happen?  That's like Bush revisionist history.

"Oooh baby. Pretty baby. Ohh honney. You let me down honney"  ::)

same thing can be said about anybody else. there i just did that with GN'R.