Here Today... Gone To Hell!

you can say what you like about axl wasting time when spending so much time on one project, but personally i find that perfection is a good thing. i have heard my fair share of half-assed and disappointing albums in my life and it's annoying as hell when you've been waiting for the record and it doesn't deliver. i find myself wishing that more artists would take more time with their albums, they owe it to the fans to give it their all and not rush it. now, this doesn't only apply in the music industry. i find perfection to be a good thing on a personal level as well. perfection means not settling for just anything, it means going for what you want, going for the gusto and never settle for less. i won't go into details but i can tell you that because i have put certain restrains on myself, waiting things out and sacrifizing offers from other for the sake of "perfecting" things to get my dream girl, i now just might get her. 8) i could've had others in that long period of time i have been waiting for her, but thanx to the fact that i have been patient and selective when it comes to girls i can now feel very good about not just settling for random girls, but getting what i want as a result of my personal sacrifices. this is why i and i like to and can somehow relate to axl and his decision not to act because other want you to, but to wait until things feel just right. so many others don't, and they end up regretting it in the end. if that didn't make much sense, well at least i got it off my chest. i guess i just like comparing myself to people like axl, whom i respect so much. :smoking:

Just remember even though he can strive for perfection that doesnt always result in a great album.  Millions of people have millions of opinions on how a track should sound and even the CD can be great he sure as hell cant please everyone, and have a perfect album.

I agree with you on the perfection thing, but I am one of those people who doesn't think an artist owes a fan anything.
I am also in agreement with to many half A@# cd's out there. By great artists. VR is a great start! They all have the talent to put out a great cd, but it will never happen. They don't take the time or take a chance!!! And thats why they are no longer in gnr.

Perfection is nothing but a matter of personal opinion. What's perfect to one person is total shit to another. Thats just the way it is. And if Axl's infinite delay is really due to trying to achieve perfection, it brings up an interesting question: At what point did he think Illusions was perfect? Two great albums, there's no doubt about that, but the albums had flaws, and he released them anyways. If he could go back, do you think he would have delayed their release so he could do "finishing touches"?

excactly. that is the excact reason why they are no longer in gnr and why VR seems disappointing. like axl said in the 2002 gnronline interview, slash backed away from everything that had potential because he just couldn't be assed to do it.

yes. as he's said himself, he was under alot of pressure with the illusion albums and they suffered as a consequence. that is what he's trying not to do with chinese democracy, cause he doesn't want to go through that again. he won't release it until it is perfect in his eyes. besides i think he just enjoys recording it and having something to do with it on a daily basis. this album is his baby. he wants to continue working on it because he enjoys the material and the recording so much. maybe that's part of the reason he is in no rush to get it out.

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

CD's hype is well deserved, axl is a creative genius and songs like madagascar have already been labeled "epic" by music journalists. this album will live up to its hype, believe me.

Follow the yellow brick road. And don't forget your ruby slippers......"There's no place like reality, there's no place like reality, there's no place like reality."
 ::)

Rustycage is Slash :o

Hi Slash :peace:

well i'm not the one who will sound like a hypocrite when CD is out and you'll be kissing axl's ass. ::)

and dolphin, is that why he called me a cracka? :o

i didn't even mention VR until that girl mentioned them. what the fuck did you even come in this thread for?

wow, another thread hi-jacked by Axl and VR bashers, big suprise!.  I agree that perfection is impossible to attain and I've stated that before, but that doesn't mean nor has it ever been stated by Axl that perfection is his goal and the reason for the delay of Chinese Democracy.  Some of you need to learn to take the high-road and not post useless responses again and again.  All that will result in is the inevitable locking of another thread by the moderators.  Chinese Democracy will be released when its released, until then all parties should refrain from comparing VR to the new GN'R because there's nothing to compare to YET.  It's a damn shame to see these forums continually bogged down by idiots who gain pleasure out of attempting to interupt the discussion someone else has started.  If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, don't post just to get your damn post count up (rusty Cage).

so true. let this be the last post that is off-topic in this thread cause i really don't want it locked. :-\

August, you're right about the Illusions albums. There definitely was real pressure involved, and that could possibly be why it was rushed and the flaws were ignored. But your comments about Axl not ever letting that happen again are false. It happened two years later with TSI. Why this album was even released still amazes me. They must have had some contractual obligation to release it. No one in the band (including Axl) gave a shit about this album. Take Axl's vocals off of a couple songs and it almost becomes a Duff solo album. I have always been intrigued by this album, because it shows their disinterest, and the fact that no one in the band had absolutely no idea what direction they should go in. I'm not against the idea of a cover album, but half these songs are Illusion rejects. Half of TSI was on the first released tracklists for Illusions, but there wasn't enough room left on the discs for them to fit, so they scrapped them. GNR needed to re-establish themselves in the face of grunge in 93-94, and all we got was a dated cover album. TSI falls very short of the word perfection.

Illusions weren't perfect, they were very promising though and the world was expecting GN'R.
The world now doesn't expect GN'R anymore so a breathtaking album (not really a perfect, but something similar to Dark side of the Moon or Back in Black) is needed to make GN'R once again the greast rock band in the world.

New Rose, I agree. Illusions showed that the sky was the limit rgarding the band's potential. Unfortunately, it ended up being just a brief glimpse.

Yeah thanks to band members that didn't want to get involved and the record company pushing to get it out!!

If Illusions wasn't pushed to get out, it might not have seen the light of day if it were up to Axl.   I agree, I love his attention to detail and the fact he want's it to be perfect but in his mind it seems it never is.   He needs someone else or many other people to take over finally say hey, this is great, release it and Axl has to listen.   

BTW, I hate the fact VR was brought up in here, they have a kick ass album and are kicking the world's ass right now, I wish people could see that sometimes just plain, straight out rock in roll songs can be great too and VR's songs are.. doesn't always have to be a, completely different sounding songs, 20 changes in each song, 10 min songs, etc to be a great album.

DTJ, I agree 100%. Although I'm not a big VR fan, I respect the fact that they are out there contributing to the music world. I'm also glad that some members of GNR are still in the public eye doing what they love. I just wish Axl could do the same.

Almost everything Axl makes (musically speaking) turns magic. He has "something" genius.

nesquick, Axl is obviously a genius. I dont think anyone can deny that statement. Its how he uses his genius that is a big issue.

james, this is what axl said in 2002 regarding the work in progress on chinese democracy:
?I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again.
those were his excact words. now, i agree that axl is a genius when it comes to making music so obviously i want him to show the world that he can still make some of the best music out there, and perfecting that music can only be good. i won't get disappointed no matter what, but the closer to perfect this album gets, the better.

August, good answer by Axl!! But read my post concerning TSI. It happened again.

But when it is enough already?   Sometimes if you keep stirring and keep stirring you will ruin it.   I agree with you that Axl is a genius, we all love him for that but he is a genius to the point of madness sometimes.   You have to eventually accept that enough is enough and live with the little imperfections he might still see.   Ever know someone in real life that is a perfectionist, it's really frustrating for example I know an artist who's work is quite good but it takes him a long time to finish a project and when he done it is brilliant but he doesn't think so.

Regardless of flaws the album will be kickass. Even Appetite had its flaws  :peace:

perfection in the music buisness is impossible. there is no "right or wrong" when it comes to songwriting nor does everyone agree on what a good song is , so writing a perfect song/album is just impossible.

Man, do u people know what the term genius means, cause axl is most definitely NOT a musical genius. Was he a great frontman in his day? Most definitely. Has he written some great lyrics? For sure.  But i get the feeling some of u think he actually wrote all the GnR songs & just showed the band how to play them. If he were a musical genius, CD would've been released 6 years ago because he would've gone into a studio & written all the parts himself & just told the musicians what notes to play. Can't wait to hear why i'm wrong on this one & why u all think he's a musical genius.

Botaxl, most of your posts are just shitty insults about Axl, but this is your best post yet. You make a really good point. I think Axl has certain aspects of genius. Cause when he's in "the zone", there is absolutely no one better. But you're right. He needs too many people to help him to truly be called a genius. I have always said that Izzy was the major contributing factor to the success of GNR. Take him out of the band in 1986, and GNR would have been a minor blip on the musical radar screen. Take him out in late 1991, and you get 14 years and counting with no new album. You say if he were a genius, he would have released it in 1999. I disagree. The new band hadn't been together long enough at that point. If he were a genius, he would've released it in 2002 immediately after the VMA's.

Where as I think that Axl is a musical Genius with his visions of what he want's but yes most definitely needs help to make those visions a reality, he kind of directed the music direction in which he wanted NR and Estranged but let the band write their own parts, which is what I got out of watching the Making of's.  But as far as the other songs ofcourse we know Izzy had a huge impact on GNR success.   This whole discussion brings up an interesting question.  Do you think he trusts his new bandmates to write their own parts or has Axl attempted to write everything just as he sees it?

Has Axl ever referred to himself as a perfectionist?

(no... I'm not being sarcastic... I'm really asking. )

DTJ, Axl has definitely needed help writing lyrics. Tommy has mentioned the writing being a group efort. On the HOB bootleg, while Axl is discussing the song 'Chinese Democracy', he uses the term 'we' instead of 'I'. So he is definitely getting help. As far as Axl writing all the music, I highly doubt it. Hasn't he joked about his guitar skills before? I think with the epics, he probably does the songs on piano, and the other guys come up with music to go with it.

That's good, I am glad to see it's a group effort.  So it brings me to this question what do you think Axl is not happy about with the tracks that all the producers mentioned were great.  His vocals?

DTJ, when those producers mentioned the music being great, there wasn't any vocals. There wasn't any any lyrics then either. It was just instrumentals. I think the main reason for the wait was Axl trying to come up with lyrics to the instrumentals. Imagine how tragic it would have been if Axl died a few years ago? Geffen/Interscope would have released CD to cash in, and it would have been just music.

I didn't know that, I guess I should have read the article again, thanks James.? Well god knows what's holding this damn thing up..only Axl does.

I agree with August 15th and I had a thread where I said that I dont want CD unless its classic.

IM tired of bands I like releasing pieces of shit music, so I want Axl to take 10 more years if he has to as long as the CD is the best he can do, I know Ill be happy.

out of all the songs Ive heard I love em all.

The Blues,Madagascar and IRS are top notch awesome shit and if those really arent the top ten songs on the album we are truly in for a surprise.

i agree, i think this record will be better than anyone can comprehend. i'm thrilled to be part of those who believed in it from the start, as this record definately will catch the attention of the world and draw alot of new fans.

I really can't see on Axl a image of "genius", I really don't...

I'm not a (completly) velvet revolver basher, either a Axl one, but I just can't imagine from where you guys took the Idea that Axl Rose is a Genius...he's not even a good singer! How could he be a genius?!?

Before you starts to bashing me or whatever, I would like to say that I'm a huge Axl Rose's fan, I love his work and his voice(even I thinkin' he isn't a good singer at all) but I think that someone labeled him as "GENIUS", i'm sorry, but that's stupid... Axl Rose is just a cool guy, who is full of problems that came from his childhood and is now affecting him...

Axl Rose is not a Genius...Slash is not a genius...Duff is not a genius...scott weiland is not a genius...GN'R never has anyone that was/is a genius...

Axl Rose is just a guy with great Ideas of how doin' a rock record, or a rock concert, or a rock song or whatever, but he's NOT A GENIUS!!!

I think I'm the only Guns N' Roses' fan that can see that...

He's a good singer, at least he was. He has very good lyrical skills and his rants make sense at least. Also I liked the way he organised the Illusion miracle, the shows, the cds, the music videos e.t.c.

when you sell 85 million records worldwide and was/is part of one of the greatest band in History, you have something genius. When you are able to write songs like November rain and estranged, you have something genius.
Even those who absolutely hate Axl, recognize his part of genius and his talent.

Axl Rose is not a genius...he just was on the right place at the right time...that's the way he got everything that he has today!

i dont mind people being perfectionists, but their should be time limits otherwise things can be tweaked forever - and that can be very frustrating for fans.

So according to your logic, Nikki Sixx, Brett Michaels & Jon Bon Jovi would be geniuses as well? That's a funny thought.  Again, some of u people have no idea what the term genius means. Look it up & stop making yourselves look idiotic.

he was lucky with the timing, yes, but writing songs such as estranged, november rain, sweet child of mine, civil war etc., to do that you need some kind of a talent that is out of the ordinary musical talent. i would call him a modern day musical genius.

he was lucky with the timing, yes, but writing songs such as estranged, november rain, sweet child of mine, civil war etc., to do that you need some kind of a talent that is out of the ordinary musical talent. i would call him a modern day musical genius.



Do u think he actually wrote all those songs by himself, then just told the band how to play them? I guess i'm curious as to why u call him a genius & seem to give him sole credit for something that was a complete team effort between him & the band. Do u really think he wrote down Slash' guitar work on Estranged & showed him how to play it, same goes with SCOM & NR?

he's just a good writer with good helpers to do that...is not that he make the whole song by himself...

Axl can be better then other musicians that we have today, but that doesn't make him a genius...

no, what i'm saying is axl had a big part in writing those songs, especially november rain. i'm not taking anything away from slash, so just chill out. all i'm saying is axl has a talent unlike most others to write timeless and truly great ballads and rock songs.

Yeah, you're right!!

Axl do have this talent that most of others writers don't have, you're totally right about that, Axl has that talent just as eddie veder, neil young, pete Townshend, john lennon, freddie mercury...

Axl has that kind of talent, but he's not the only one... and what he do/did isn't nothing that any of those guys I just said can't do, and that's a two-way path, what those people can do isn't nothing that Axl can't do too...

What I'm saying is that we don't have a genius, just because no one can please averybody! If even god can't please everyone(he can't please me) why in earth AXL ROSE could do that?

There's no genius, there's just good writers...

i agree that the term "genius" shouldn't be watered out and thrown around too much, but there are degrees of it. mozart was a musical genius, there's no questioning that, but did he please EVERYBODY? i find that hard to believe.

Again, u say botaxl wrote timeless & truly great songs. He didn't write the songs. He didn't even write all the lyrics. GNR was a complete & total collaborative effort between several guys.

BTW, show me a timeless rock song that axl rose wrote on his own, which is what made GNR huge in the first place. This should be ineresting.

I would say also genius is a term that shouldn't be used, just as the term masterpiece. I have used the term "genius" when referring to Axl before myself.  Songs like Estranged and NR, most people give Axl all the credit for those for because of the musical direction he wanted them to go in not that Slash or Duff their write their own parts to the song.  There is no doubt that Axl's visions of music are grandious and that he does have an exceptional talent that can't be argued.   However, old GNR as whole, is what made all of them shine as a band not just Axl.   I look forward to CD, to see what this band and Axl can create.  I like what I have heard but I will reserve my judgement until I hear the studio tracks and new material on the album.

No, he didn't pleased everybody, but what I tried to say with that word("please") is - I'll use your mozart exemple here-:

Everybody knows that mozart was a great musician...even if someone don't like classic music, that person know how much mozart was important to the music we listen today...I mean, even if you don't like the music of mozart, you HAVE to understand that he is important for music, not just classic but to others styles, like heavy metal - for exemple...but Axl Rose is not!! He only have importance for hard rock and, even so, isn't the same as Steven Tyler or Robert Plant.

We could say that the only place where Axl Rose is a genius is in Guns N' Roses and because if someday a really genius come to GN'R, Axl can fire him  :hihi:...THAT makes axl a genius INSIDE the GN'R...

Who are you? Some kind of a specialist critic of music or what?
You say nothing but crap! Most of the critics and several music stars says that Axl is a musical genius, not only tha hard rock fans! Even now some thousands people still speak about him, if he was just a average musician, i think that people by this time would forgotten him, don`t you think? Please read what others singers said about Axl himself and his talent , maybe that would change your mind.

Rock on  :peace:

AXL still`s The BEST!!!

amen to that. pinball, you're wrong. axl has had a big influence on the music industry as a whole in such a short period of time, he (along with the rest of gn'r) has inspired other bands, written epic ballads that are still getting air play all around the world ten years later, and the way he performs and puts his soul into the music he makes and manages to come out with something so both intriguing and beautiful makes him a musical genius in alot of people's eyes. and rightfully so.

I regards to Axl's perfectionism...directly from Spinal Tap...."there is a fine line between clever and stupid!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think a genius is something on an absolute scale and not relative. :smoking:

Well Is there a music genius among pop /rock music singers? I don't know any.
A Genius would create works of art or whatever of quality like cutting a fart without effort.
It would amaze people but wouldn't really move people, or me at least.

Yes he has.  jokingly, when asked about the lingering production of CD. Otherwise, I don't know.

I'm not saying that Axl is a crap musician or just a regular one...Axl is a great musician? YES. He can do things that others can't? Oh yeah! He is one of the greatest musicians of rock?  YES.

But he isn't a genius, almost a god...

I love Axl's work, I have all the GN'R albuns, gn'r is my favorite band of all times, but what I fell about him and his work can't blind my eyes to the reallity. Even if he is our idol, there's a lot of others vocalists out there that are so much better then Axl, singin' or writing...but that is gonna make me feel diferent about him? NO WAY!! THAT'S what I'm trying to say, even if he is everything you think he is you can't say that there isn't any chance of someone be better then him...I can list a lot os vocalists who is better then Axl, but that's not the point here...

I know that is a non-end subject, I'll never gonna change your mind about it(and I don't even want to) and you'll never gonna change mine...and I would NEVER, but NEVER change my mind reading what other musicians say about Axl, I don't need this...I know Axl's work very well, I've been listen to GN'R since I was 6 years old, I don't need anyone's opinion about how great he is, I know how great he is ans he isn't that great as you think he is...but THAT is not goin' to make me like gn'r less then you or more, that's not the point, the point is why you can't see that there's no genius inside gn'r or Axl, there's just a great guy, with a lot of cool and new ideas...but not a genius...

I won't post in this topic again, I've said everything I had to say about it...so that's your opinion and mine, I don't care what you think of it...I'm just sad that Guns N' Roses have a lot of fans with mentality of a britney spears' fan - I'm not saying that is every fan, but there's a lot...

So, if you didn't like what I said here, "FUNK" YOU  : ok:

lol, have you been listening to "ain't it fun" again. :smoking:
anyway, i suggest you refrain from comparing me to some britney spears fan. i've been a axl/gnr fan since 1990/91, when i was about seven. but enough about that, i don't see many vocalists out there that are better than axl, not before him and not after. and he does have an extraordinary talent for music and performing, there's no questioning that. so call it what you want, that's up to you. but i see where you're coming from, though i can't say i agree 100%.

Amen to that august!
I don`t like someone comparing me? to a britey`s fan too! You now, i`m not 16 years old, i`m 26, so i`m not a teenager you know! You`ve made your point, I`ve made mine.I`m not bilnded by the star that Axl is, i love other bands too like Queen, Metallica, AC/DC, Pink floyd, but GNR sure is my favourite band!In your concern, Axl is not a genius, in my concern he is, thats all!Even if i like Pink Floys lirics a lot, i must say that no other band in the last 20 years and now could touch me so deep inside like the GNR lirics!I guess i said it all now! If you want people to respect you, you must respect them!

Rock on? : ok: :peace:

As I've stated before, Axl is not a true genius, but he has certain aspects of genius. If anyone in the band can be classified as a true genius, I would say it was Izzy. In 86/87, he was writing songs that should not have went mainstream under usual circumstances. But going against the grain, this risk of writing controversial lyrics really paid off. I'm not denying Axl's contributions. He wrote some of the songs on AFD, and sung each song on the record. These same circumstances just mentioned also hapened on Lies. Izzy was basically the main songwriter. Does anyone remember the old Axl interview about One in a Million? Axl said that he did the song basically as a joke, Izzy came in, and basically changed the whole dynamics of the song. This Izzy/Axl mindmeld of 'Million' is the finished product we hear on Lies. And concerning Illusions, if you take away the songs Izzy wrote or co-wrote, you basically have a VERY average album with a couple epics on the record. And although I've always been kind of pissed at Izzy since he ditched the band, it was actually another 'genius' move. Because after he left, the band became a shell of its former self and became a cover band at a time when the world needed GNR to try an counteract the grunge movement. Izzy must have sensed what was going to happen, and left the band at its height of popularity. Things went way downhill after he left. I'm not insulting Axl. I think if you put Axl and Izzy in the same studio, Axl ready to sing all night, and Izzy on his guitar, that my friends, is pure fucking genius.

i absolutely agree with that last comment. and yes, izzy was a very important factor in guns n' roses. i've always had a huge respect for izzy and that the band went downhill after he left can't be denied. now, i don't know enough about this to really speak too much about it, but while axl has expressed his disappointment and frustration with izzy leaving (him being both a childhood friend, co-founder and crucial to the band), i think axl doesn't really want to admit that izzy is what kept the band together, or was a large part of keeping the band together, musically at least. that could be some of the reason that they hit a dead end with their music when the world tour ended. again, i don't know this, i just assume, but that could be some of the reason.

Thank you for the reply.  I don't recall this.  If anyone can refresh my memory I'd like to read through or listen to the exchange that elicited this comment from Axl (even if it was jokingly.)

Thanks  :)

In my book, although talented, none of them is not essentially a music genius in the true sense of the word. Well Maybe Bucketheads is.
But Axl keeps at it. Otherwise his great guts, he has a genius for fronting a band, such as drawing out his band mates' latent abilities or charming the audience.

You don't need to be a music genius to make genuine rock music. What you need are hard work and  the band chemistry, a pause, then more hard work and further musical chemistry of your band. That's about it.


Eva, pleasure. I'll find one for ya. ;)

Axl is very talented but I wouldnt call him a genius, Prince is a genius Axl is a good songwriter and singer but his piano skills are slightly above average, he cant really play guitar, cant drum,play bass.

U gotta realize something, Axl wrote the piano and lyrics for NR but u take away SLash's contribution and it is a great song but not as great

same with Estranged.

Axl isnt technically a musical genius cause he has to have others to help see his vision, he cant just grab a guitar and create what he is thinking of, he has to have other musicians.

Prince does it all by himself.

so if Prince is a musical genius, I cant really put Axl in that category because he certainly isnt on Prince's level

now as far as vocal and songwriting ability Axl is a genius.

Nice call on Prince....people like Miles Davis, Dylan, Hendrix. TRUE GENIUS. Axl, no way in hell. Writing some nice heartfelt lyrics and basic piano medley's does not a genius make. Even stretching it to the point where you can allege he directed Slash or whoever to write the appropriate guitar riff. True genius is self reliant-for the most part. Anyhow, I could spam this board with multiple examples of lyrical genius but I will start with just one:
?
 
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.

Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.

Temptation's page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying.

So don't fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.

As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred.

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.

An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.

Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.

You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.

A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not forget
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.

Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.

For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something
They invest in.

While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him.

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.

Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn't talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely.

My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards
False gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough
What else can you show me?

And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine
But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only.
 
 

Now, read that about 20 times then write me a 5 paragraph essay on how that song, written 40 years ago, still applies to the world you are living in today. School's in boys and girls. ;D?

?

Couldn't agree more Madman.

About the only rock type these days I give that tag to is one Trent Reznor...

Yes, while I would not put Reznor in the same stratosphere with Davis or Hendrix or Dylan, he does fall on the level with Prince. Each can do it all and, the key, do it well. A tropical storm is landing on my house right now! 3-4 INCHES IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES. :nervous: :nervous:

this cant possibly be karma for making us read that lyrical genious thing can it?  :hihi:

Hmm... well about the whole "genius" aspect, Im gonna have to totally and completely disagree.  Being a genius, doesnt get defined if you can pick up any instrument and magically create a wonderful sound, like Hendrix, as well as the others you mentioned.  What make someone a genius is when they can exude that other power through their music, even if the music itself isnt jaw-dropping perfect, it's about what is being exuded and what energy is being brought out, an that energy is from a place that the natural mind cant create, it's when you take your mind, and the eyes of your mind, into this other place that the mind in the natural can not experience or even touch, an when you bring that energy and power forth into whatever you are doing, is when the mind becomes genius.  I think that the most troubling, tramatizing, mental-frustation and breakdowns, is when you are genius that can not find tools, ability, and ways, to release that energy.   It's like painting a masterpiece in your head, an you try so hard with all your gut to release it, but when you try to find an outlet, it ends up a stick figure on a piece of paper- far short of societies call of genius.  But it's something, that when the genius see's it, they can see what is misunderstood, they see the sanity in their insanity, where as to others it's insanity an no method to the madness, it's just worthless trash to them. This is something you can feel, when you look into the persons eyes, when you feel their energy, or listen to them talk without actually listening to their words, when they talk- it's as if they go off in a dreamy state, an when they move- you can see it in their motions, an when they sing- it goes through you.  Genius, Axl Rose, totally.  Maybe he cant find an outlet to release it, through guitar, or bass, talent doesnt define a genius, genius defines talent.  Something can not make sense, but that object in itself suddenly makes sense, it becomes talent because of the genius, because of the energy that was brought to it, to where as if you look at- stripped down, it's just a mess.  His flaws, and imperfections, are put under a microscope, and so watched and critiqued, as any famous person, that it's so completely un-natural.  Ever find it hard to work when someones watching over your shoulder?  Telling you how to do it, what's wrong with it, and how you should have done it?  And in an artists defense, the thing I hate most, is when someone critiques and points out flaws in my work.  I hate it when people point out something they think isnt right for my picture, or ask in an condescending voice "why did you that?"  Maybe it's not the best thing on earth, but the feeling that comes out of me when Im going through the motions of drawing, is a beautiful feeling, the picture I see with my mind's eyes, not my physical eyes, is the most beautiful sight for words, but then if you take all that away- an just look at the crappy picture I drew- I can even see my picture sucks, but I dont look at it through normal eyes- I look at it through all that went into it, my mind's eyes that made that simple picture into a masterpiece, I look at what that picture is behind the lines, it may not LOOK like what was in my head but the experience/personality/and energy BEHIND the picture is the same.  Maybe the reason why genius's self destruct is they cant find an outlet, an when they do, it's not good enough.  You strive for perfection, they CAN be attained, but then someone comes along and tells you otherwise.  Self-reliant, well, unless you live in a world with only you being the planet, that will never be true.  Yeah, maybe other artists can preform alone, but the inspiration, motivation, thought, heart, direction, and drive, are from outside sources that brought them to that feeling an to that creativity and their outlet, that inspired their brains to explore in that other space.  If it wasnt for other people, relationships, oberserving human kind, the world, then it will never have made those people be who they were, those songs- feelings- the feelings that brought on the guitar solos an music, would have never been if it werent for outside sources.  There are different ways others can contribute to the work, whether it be by inspiration or experience, or help first-hand or help mentally.  This is something Im so passionate about, the mind of a genius.  I know I wrote a lot, an Im sure no one will read all this, but oh well, it's something I wanted to get out.  The very first post to this thread caught my eye, an I totally agree with what was written.  What draws me to Axl, is his mind out of the natural, you can just tell- you can feel it, that his mind goes into that other place, his energy is what makes his work art, what makes him a genius with all who he is, not just his work.  An I will defend that, an him till the day I die.  Kissing Axl's ass? yeah, anyday.

an another thing to ad....

genius doesnt equal quick delivery.  Just because it has taken so long, doesnt mean someone isnt a genius.  Just because this isnt being done the world's way, doesnt take away from what it truely is.  I am thankful an glad it's taken this long, an that Axl is doing it his way, not the world's way.  Maybe in the fact in itself, that Axl walks a road different from the world, makes him a genius.

i totally agree, very well put. 8)

Recently i have become enamored with one of my DVD bootlegs of a GNR performance from 1986. I believe it is January 18th 1986 (I turned 4 years old on that day). One of the reasons why I like it so is because it is far from perfect. Even with Axl fucking up on the lyrics (he  had definitly been dancing before with Mr. Brownstone) and the band fucking up on melody sometimes, the songs on AFD were so great and the band was so good in quality of their playing regardless of the state that they were in (Slash could play great guitar on a lot of drugs) that it makes for an interesting and kick ass sound. I would hate it if all my old GNR shows sounded exactly the same because someone in the band determined that they had to make it perfect. Perfect may mean routine to some (practice makes perfect), but in the world of GNR 1986-1993, it meant a thing of beauty, of creation, watching the melody pick up, the lyrics get thrown down, the crowd slammin, or whether it was Axl changing the set list in the middle of a song, Duff getting hit in the nuts by a lighetr, Slash having his guitar get caught up in the crowd it didn;t matter how it was done. Whether it was perfect or not, the band always had each other's back and the fans knew they were getting the real thing.

I always tell my friends that the main reason why I love GNR so much is because they embody the "Human Spirit." The Spirit is never perfect, but for some reason, watching them in the varying states, there was always something to pick out different in the old GNR. the songs had their own life because they recorded them in varying states, in varying moods, but it was spontaneous, not something re-deconstructed and rereconstructed after many hours in from of a MAC/PC. They recorded UYI in a month (all the music - vocals tooks 6-8 more months), AFD was entirely created in 6-8 months. The mood was there for those songs then with the themes of struggle, the vices, the romance, the big city, the adventure of rising to the top. You can't perfect something in a mansion with nothing based on except a once glorious career gone dead.

Thats why I was very disappointed with the NU-GNR thing. The 2002 concert was a thing of routine - watching the same Axl moves, gestures, the band acting more lifeless than ex-GNR/VR members. If its any warning, it shows me that Axl would want to settle to something more routine if and when he ever decided to come back. Besides, Axl has lost his way folks. I have just explained that. This is not perfectionism at this point, this is procrastination. People who make excuses for the man make me sick.

BTW, Axl admitted to being a Perfectionist in the 1990 Kerrang interview (which btw Jarmo, WAS THE BEST INTERVIEW THAT AXL WAS EVER IN BUT YOU DIDN'T EVEN PUT THAT UP AS AN OPTION IN THE LAST POLL - sorry but I had to get on your case for that one). Read the article people, and you'll know who you are worshipping and waiting on.

MNR

this the part you're re talking about MNR...

I don't feel that wanting something to be right is being a perfectionist.

and I find his reference to a 'perfectionist attitude", as he describes the making of AFD, to mean deliberate...

but thanks for the reference ;)

I'm wondering if there is anything regarding the making of CD or any comment from Axl in recent years regarding making the album perfect or of him describing himself as  perfectionist....   seeing how it's a trait that seems to be so often and prevalently applied to him - especially in regards to the forthcoming album



and RocketQueen I really enjoyed your posts.   : ok:

That's a view I strongly agree on. ?Something I have been so adiment on learning, and understanding, is to never settle. ?To know that there is always more and better out there, an you DO have the ability and choice to get it. ?Once you get to where you want, dont settle, or you will fall backwards or become idle, go for more- an always move forward. ?Never be satisfied, always move forward and grow. ?It's funny that you put that into relationship aspect, because it's something I do as well. ?I dont believe in "dating" unless you know it's the person you are supposed to spend the rest of your life with. ?Dont settle for someone who isnt "the one", that "dream" person is out there, an sacrafice always has rewards. ?I have huge "dreams" on the man I want, an I wont settle till I get him, even if it takes me my whole life. When you have no doubts, expect the world, believe in the impossible, an know that you and your life is limitless, it's hard to settle or less. ?Perfection, may never be litterly attained, but we were made in the image of Perfection, ?always to desire perfection and going after perfection with faith you will grab hold and become it- is to me genius. ?Maybe some of us are confusing perfection with satisfaction, that may be, but both- even if it's impossible, should be treated as if it were possible. ?Im what you would call a "perfectionist", an I find the times Im most content, is when something hasnt become perfection to me- but it has become satisfaction upon me. ?You work till you feel satisfied, an I think that is what feels "perfect". ?You go till your goals get met, you never stop till you feel you have reached what you deserve, an when you get there- you realize, there is more and better out there, an you go after it- because you know you have the ability and power to not only go after it- but get it. ?You have some good views, that attitude will get you far. ?You dont have to create new to be a genius, your choices and philosophy, and wisdom make you a genius as well. ?It doesnt take a special person to do extraordinary things. ?It's about average people, moving in supernatural power, knowing truth. ?It's interesting looking at "perfection" in this way. ? You're makin me think haha

haha why thank you, i'm glad we agree on the subject ;D
but yeah i consider myself a perfectionist in some ways myself.
it's cool to know that you share my views. genius is your state of mind in alot of ways. the way you think and what you do with it.

thanks Eva :)

EXACTLY!!!!  And I think the biggest point to that, above all, is 'and what you do with it.'  I think it's the state of mind, in all ways.  One might be a genius through their work, but it was their state of mind that brought them to that work.  Bringing up the mind, I study the mind, disorders and such, since I have upon many disorders derived from epilepsy,  to which the kind I have is sister disorders with schizophrenia and bi polar disorder, an I have studied the link between those diseases with genius.  It interests me, an no surprise, when I read that Axl is bi-polar 'manic-depressive'.  It's amazing through all the people the world has labled genius, the majority have had epilepsy or bi-polar or some mental disease.  An I know it's from the mind being taken out of the natural state, an given ability to experience and see things a normal brain cant.  It'd be interesting to talk to Axl about his mental states, an what he experiences, that above anything is what I would love to talk to him most about.

marknroses, GREAT fucking post!! Wonderful description of the band. Hopefully everyone here reads it. You are definitely right about the band sounding different every night. A show that each of us went to was truly a once in a lifetime experience, because the same show didnt happen twice. There was a bootleg I had many years ago, it was a show from 1987, and it was unlike any GNR concert I've ever heard. You could hear Izzy and Duff singing over Axl. Maybe Axl was really stoned or something, but Izzy and Duff were definitely carrying the load. I cant even imagine being in that crowd, because they had to know it was something they would never witness again. I seen them in July 1991, and they performed a reggae version of Civil War, and it was chilling. I've never heard the band do this again, and a bootleg of the show I seen has yet to surface. GNR was truly a once in a lifetime event. Because when you showed up at the arena, anything was possible.

kathryn, yeah i know what you mean, this is completely off topic but a few years back a friend of mine told me that i might be manic-depressive, and i even did some research about it, but i never got it diagnosed, and i think i manage fine, i just have alot of down periods. but absolutely, one of the reasons why i can relate so much to axl is because i often find myself in the same mental state that he expresses through his songs, especially his lyrics, in songs like estranged and coma, but also in songs like "it's so easy". 8) it all depends on my mood, but i've always seen alot of myself in axl, even when i was 7 years old i could somehow relate to his anger, loneliness and "i don't give a fuck" attitude. it just developed, and i take alot of pride in having that mind-set.

a reggae version of civil war? :nervous:
well that would be very interesting to hear. i'm sure it can work out somehow, the chorus might work.

Yeah, they played a reggae version of the song. It was really cool, a once in a lifetime experience. I've always wanted a bootleg of the show, but I guess no one recorded it. While doing the song, Axl made some reference to Bob Marley and grabbed a joint from the crowd and smoked it during the rest of the song. At this same show, Izzy sang Double Talkin Jive, which didnt happen very often.

haha, that's great! ;D axl's one cool mofocca. and izzy singing double talkin jive?! wow i've never even heard that, the bootlegs i've heard are axl singing it, from like 1992. never heard izzy do that song live and it's a shame since it's one of the coolest gn'r songs in my opinion. that great, bluesy solo, those riffs are brilliant, and izzy's cool voice/vibe makes the song complete. izzy rocks. :smoking:

Yeah, at Rio 91, Axl sang 'DTJ', he also did at some of the other shows while Izzy was still with the band. I always thought that was strange. I think the show I went to was one of the only times Izzy sang the song. He also did Dust N Bones, which sounds much better live than it does on the album.

cool, dust n' bones is another one of my favorites. that song has amazing feel, and it brings back alot of memories every time i listen to it. it's great. i love how izzy is so bluesy and relaxed in his songs, i absolutely love his talent for making great rock and roll with alot of feel to it.

It might be off-topic, but this probably my favorite topic haha, I could talk hours about this. ?I literally, said outloud, "wow", when I read the 3 songs you listed. ?Those 3, along with, My World, are 4 songs that transport me into a range of emotions, songs that really play with the different sides of my mind. ?It's funny, cause I see my self in Axl too. ?I read his interviews, an it trips me out, an I think "oh my gosh, it's like me, but not". ?Ive been trying to research the link between neurosis an psychosis, my disorder- left temporal lobe epilepsy (seizure disorder) is called the bridge between the gap of neurosis and psychosis. ?I read that the majority of people diagnosed manic-depressive are misdiagnosed and infact are left temporal lobe epileptics. ?There are so many personaly disorders, good and bad, that result in L-TLE, and it's weird, I dunno if it's because I have it, but I can sense who has it, or who has a disorder. ?There is something called the epileptic personality. ?I dunno, I always felt that Axl had that, that he was misdiagnosed, but there's no way of ever knowing unless you talk to him about his physical feelings. ?Me and my best friend, who moved away almost 10 years ago, we have this connection, a deep mind connection, where you just feel at home, well as kids we ?used to talk of this feeling we would get, intense deja-vu, dreamy states, that we later now found out were seizures. ?But it's amazing how we connected like that, an later found out we had the same exact disorder an never knew it. ?I didnt find out till I was 15, an she didnt find out until this year. ?My other best friend has it to, that's how we met, an I feel that connection with her too. ?Maybe that's why I feel connected to Axl, as do you. ?The mind gets taken out of the natural state, i think there is where we find connection with others in that outter state. ?That sounds weird, but it makes sense to me. ?I can remember the first time I saw Axl, as a kid, watching the Sweet Child O' Mine video, and I can honestly remember that moment, so clear, I remember thinking he was the most beautiful man I had ever seen, I felt something strange about him, some weird connection, and I have been intrigued by him ever since.
The kind of epilepsy I have, creates other mental disorders, the epileptic personality, such as altered sexual behaivor (agressive, over acitvity, non-activity or desire), emotionality, mania, depression, Guilt, Humorlessness, Aggression, Anger and hostility, Hypergraphia (excessive writing), Religiosity, Philosophical interest, Sense of personal destiny, Hypermoralism, Dependency, Paranoia, Obsessionalism, Circumstantiality, Viscosity, sociopathicform, schizoprheniaform. ?I see a lot of that in Axl.
It's not the kind of seizures where you are on the floor convulsing, that's another kind, the kind I have is where I see/hear hallucinations while have intense deja-vu along with an exploding feeling an nausia.

The part where you said you were 7 relating to his anger. ?I relate to that. ?It's weird looking back on my childhood and seeing that I felt emotions that normal kids didnt experience. ?There are certain things I felt as child, that I look back on now, an think "whoa, I was way too young to have been feeling that". ?Being a child, and relating to grown up feelings, that's powerful. ?The moods, and the feelings, they come and go, and certain things can trigger them. ?It's about finding the point of control.

Ive read that when manic-depressive people go into their attacks, they are in fact having seizures. ?So it's interesting to research the links. ?You dont need a doctor to tell you if you have it or not, you should research some more about it. ?It's important to know what's going on with you and your mind/body. ?I'd love to help you out, Id hate to know a lot about it an not help.

thanx for saying that, this is too off-topic to continue here but yeah i can absolutely relate to looking back on my childhood and relating to feelings i both now and then wondered if other kids had. it's really cool that we can both relate in the same way. :smoking: hopefully we can talk more about this at another time, i have to go now but it was nice talking to you, nice to know someone had those same feelings and even relate to the same songs. 8)

I'd been manic depressive, and had epilepsy from 10 years old to 16 years old and last year, i had some symptoms and thought i had a brain problem, so i went to xrays and more, they found a vein that was abnormal and i escaped, it seems, an aneurism.

My dad was manic depressive, and a little over two years ago, he died of a double brai ntumor, primary and secondary tumors, side by side. He'd always had seizures, not like epilepsy, but like havin to stop on motorways and stuff because of overlight.

You say things are linked ? i have been saying this to my mum for over 15 years now.

Most people i know who are manic or depressive or manic depressive have had a form of epilepsy, have had either hallucinations or real " visions" ( psychic like) and sadly, have had the problem grow and usually had a much more serious brain problem later on.

Check your healths.

its so f*cked up that some people (a lot of people) will never get this concept... and dismiss it as pyscobabble
the mind being in an this other state can occur under various circumstances.  for some it is beyond their control, yes... 
and for others they have to strive to get there... they have to conscientiously seal out external distractions
for some this state results in productive creativity...  and yes, for some it is somewhere they are not able to bring anything out of...
not always able to share thier enlightenment...  but still, find satisfaction and comfort in thier own unique experience and understanding of things


i can't even count how many times i have heard similar sentiments expressed by fellow gunners.. and particularly fans of Axl
the ability... the gift he has... to have touched and so many and to create that which means so much to so many people though sharing of his own personal self... and that it be sustained over such an extended period of time.. its energy surviving on little more than our passing it between us, to me is amazing.

yeah, most artist don't have that ability at all. axl's impact on people has lasted for so long, despite his long absense.

When a section of your brain, "trips over itself", it produces electric discharge, which are seizures.  Depending on the section of the brain, depends on how it will react with the person.  There are so many different kinds of seizures, that are catagorized with different kind of epilepsies.  When a manic depressive, or schizoprhenic, go into an attatck, they have the same exact electric discharge, which are in fact seizures.  And it origionates in the temporal lobes,  most likely the left.  So where to draw the line if it is left-temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia and what not, is what have doctors in question and debate.  So many different things can cause seizures, feeling certain emotions and going to certain places trigger my seizures.  My grandmother is a schizophrenic.  It's no doubt that there is a link.  The brain's septability to getting the diseases are genetic.  The reason why they have been studied to be linked, is that epilepsy isnt just a neurological disorder if it is effecting personalities/behaivor/thinking/everyday activity, it then is crossing into psychological territory, and manic depression and schizophrenia have physical neurological abnormal activity as epilepsy- so those are crossing into the neurological territory.  The same reactions that a temporal lobe epileptic has during a seizure, is the same with a psychosis disoder.   Everytime I have a seizure, I have hallucinations, and my behavior and personality changes momentarily.  The book Seized, by Eve La Plante talks all about it.  It's really interesting, I love studying it.

Heres a website that is in relation to the whole genius thing, http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/famous.html

I gaurentee you, that any left temporal lobe epileptic and manic-depressive, are artsy.  They exell more in art, and take high interest in it.  In art, of any form.  Music to philosphy, anything that is considered art to the particular person.

That's really interesting !!!

How come neurologists aren't talking about it more ? i mean, when dad died, in geneva ( switzerland), they had no explanation and we did mention all this but they said there was no link.

Oh how i could talk about all this forhours ( better not, you will still be there in a week's time lol )...

i will read what's on the link you gave.

Merci.

Yeah it is cool that we can relate.  I really wanna talk more about this too.  It'd be really interesting, and good to know im in company, of someone else who has felt feelings I have felt- cause sometimes I get so weird to myself that I feel Im alone.  Looking back on my childhood, even though it was the most peaceful, and so perfect to me- it's like it was a dream, it disturbs me and makes my stomach turn to think of some of the feelings and experiences I went through, feelings that a kid shouldnt feel until they are older.  It's like, Im sick to my stomach in protection of this little kid, who in actuality is me.  I guess she's still living in there, I guess that's why she still seems real.

Anyway, I'd love to talk about this more, maybe we can start a thread under 'the Jungle' section, an I can talk more about the manic-depression and stuff like that, but I wont be online to talk after tonight, Im going to Los Angeles until the 20th.  Maybe I'll see Axl ;) hahah

I dont know why it isnt more talked about.  I think it's territory that I lot of people dont want to go into.  It puts lots of doctors into debates, and since most mental disorders are 50% fact and 50% mystery, it's hard to say who is wrong and who is right.  It sounds to me like your father had epilepsy due to head trama he had, which is one of the biggest leading factors to cause of seizures.  To me, one of the biggest clues to this link is, epileptics- manic-depressive- and schizophrenics, take the same medication.  They all are anti-convulsant drugs, they all are neurologically effected diseases, all with electric discharge (seizures) and doctors have found that epileptic medicine works best on manic-depressive patients.  I used to take trileptal, which is used also for manic depression and schizophrenia.  It's under study for being an anti-manic agent and a mood stabilizer.  It has antimanic effects comparable to those of lithium and haloperidol.  Others are tegretol (carbamazepine ), depakote (valproate), lamictal (lamotrigine ), keppra (levetiracetam), zonegran (zonisamide ).

Heres one website about the connection.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p950927.html

I know depakote, i used to be on a treatment between 10 years old and 12 years old called Dekapine ( 500mg).

"You can't rush art"

thats all i can say

You can't perfect it either..

Why? Stanley Kubrick did.

I guess you never saw "Eyes Wide Shut"..

Did you hear Smile by Brian Wilson?

If Axl puts out his "Perfect" album,I haev a feeling it will be great to me...Cause anything he has put out(other than My World) has been good...I have faith.

My world is my fav. That female voice could be better.
Strictly speaking, I don't believe in "perfectness" or "forever" in art (human act) but I value the attempt to make perfect above them.

Are you OK, mate?

Everyone is a bit too lenient.
Leonardo Da Vinci  is the representative of a real genius who displayed his exceptional talent in multifarious fields. Other top-notch artists of his time, Michelangelo, Raphael and such were great masters but no way in the hell the geniuses of Da Vinci's calibre. However it was Michelangelo who made the best work of the Renaissance in my eyes.

Whoa, on a musical genius, yes.
To me a musical genius, (here I don't mean that in playing guitar, singing, etc) is someone who has an ability to write great music with ease, as if he or she has a fountain of Music inside their head and constantly it overflows. I know a few people who play almost any instruments (actually one of them would turn everything, pencils, desks, chairs, cups, bottles, text books, into musical instruments) and without touching them, can write a decent piece for a full orchestra in score. Yet with struggling to get good ideas, they are no geniuses.

Trent is still at the level of a cut and paste genius. Prince is likely the one and seldom impress me.
Whether or not the artist is a genius doesn't mean a fart. The crucial point is whether the outcome is great or not.  Or rather it might be a bad thing to have a musical genius in a band cos it could prevent other members input from coming in and then the musical chemistry from arising.

In Theory two heads are better than one. Needless to say 7 talented and one red heads are.

Oh my god! Yes!
I actually sat and read that whole block of text and it is 4AM, and I fucking agree with EVERY WORD YOU SAID! Man, and the thing about when you're trying to draw/paint/write and someone's lookin' over your shoulder, THAT IS SO TRUE! That's why I hated when my school had art trips to the Tate Modern and we had to sit there and copy a fucking painting in our sketchbooks, and these stupid old ladies would come up and stand behind you and look over your shoulder and you KNOW they're there! You don't turn around for fear of inducing the dreaded "So you're drawing? Lets see? Ah! You've missed a bit there! That color's a bit off.." AARRRGGHHH!!!  I HATE THAT SO FUCKING MUCH! Then you get the ones who just start talking to you going "Well I used to go to art school, back in the day....etc..." *eye twitch* I DON'T WANT TO FUCKIN' HEAR ABOUT WHEN YOU WENT TO ART SCHOOL! JUST LET ME DRAW! But you can't say that because then everyone will turn around and look at why you're screamin' and you can't just settle back down and draw again because people go "Why did you scream at that old lady? You're a bitch, you know that?" Jeez! That's the problem with being forced to go outside in a public place, and do ANYTHING that's remarkably creative because someone will come along and start talking to you, either by asking you questions all the fuckin' time, or by pointing out the flaws... I can't fuckin' stand it! Even my parents and brother do it! My friends do it! Even the ones who went to college with me and also find it annoying! And hell! Even my fuckin' tutor did it when I was painting my final piece for the End Of Course show. In the end I got so fed up of people saying "You should do this! You should do that! Ooooh! That's awesome!" that I made a huge sign saying "GO AWAY! I'm doing this MY way!" across three A1 pieces of paper in dark red ink, and barracaded my section off from everyone else with it. I managed to get a helluva lot more work done that day! In fact, I managed to finish it! And the hardest thing to do when painting is to know when to stop, so I think I did a good job. The tutors were pissed at me, but my friends understood although they all thought I'd gone a bit doolally. :hihi:

And I think Axl's a fuckin' genius. Fuck all you who don't! I'd like to see y'all try and do all the things he's done!

Smile was better the first time around. Im embarrassed for the singers Brian hired trying to duplicate vocals for the Beach Boys. They butchered alot of parts.

I have to politely disagree here Madagas.

Reznor is a one style genius

where as Prince is a funk,R&B,rock,pop,jazz composer. Prince has written songs in just about every style so that puts him ahead of Reznor

plus Trent cant play guitar like Prince.

true.

Madam. :'(
Oddly enough, no luck yet. The comment I mentioned was not the one MNR posted.
I think it was something along similar lines of  "well because I am such a perfectionist that why...."
Maybe it was in regards to the YUI, as I read so many articles old and new all at once a few years ago.
Bloody hell, I can't stand leaving a mystery unsolved. :help:

For now, I quote a couple of comments that might hint his thoughts on perfection and production.

#1 Interview With Axl Rose - Rolling Stone August 1989
Q: So you practice safe sex?

"Practicing safe sex . . . .
I like the word practice. It means keep doing it, keep repeating the process, get it right. Practice makes perfect.
I don't know if it'll get perfect. But you can get a lot better. Just keep practicing."

#2 Axl Speaks- Rolling Stone, January 2000

"It's not an Axl Rose album, even if it's what I wanted it to be. Everybody is putting everything they've got into singing and building. Maybe I'm helping steer it to what it should be built like.''
  :headbanger:   :headbanger:   :headbanger:

Brian May called him a perfectionist and utterly meticulous in that interview he did a couple years back.

 ;D

heheh

thanks for the chuckle ppbebe
and about not being able to find the thing...  hmm, perhaps its just something 'we've' inferred/assumed over the years ourselves

and yes Saul, I recall about Brian May and Alice Cooper's comments... and who was it (Tommy or Richard) that mentioned going over 'every note' to make sure it was right

but what I was looking for would be a reference of perfectionism by Axl himself (regarding himself / his work)

 : ok:

Im just wondering how the hell does August 15th know what Axl enjoys, what he wants to do and what he doesn't.
Maybe he hates the tracks on the new album and tries to get something out? I don't know, neither do you. don't act like you do, please.
all this guessing and speculating is getting bit too fuckin' far of anyones knowledge.

hey... what if its Geffen that is holding the measuring stick?

what if it is Geffen that is not satisfied yet?  (or was not until recently?)

i understand why we 'all' assume the 'hold up' is Axl's decision... but what if we are way off on that one?

how's that for some speculating?  ;)

No, shit, Madam.

I'm not that dupe.
It was rare for me to visit n read any GNR or whatever fan board until late 2003.
Even when I read interviews, I don't trust the parts that are not in direct speeches (between w quotation marks).
Besides, I remember reading it in doubt like you are now.
And I figured out that he was sorta joking like brain's recent one.

It was an article or well maybe a fake one....I don't know now. :confused:

i'm just a fan of his, so chill out and go fuck some rein deer in finland. :rant:

Wow. Thats a long way to travel just to fuck some reindeer.  ???

 :rofl: :rofl:

seriously, that was a bizarre comment??

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Local Time: July 11, 2005, 01:48:07 AM





not really. this chump has been slamming me for no reason in the thread about slash's grandad.

Oh , I know that guys from finland. I just meant it was a long way to go if I wanted to fuck some reindeer.  : ok:

oh, in that case may i suggest alaska. : ok:

You gotta be kidding? HAHAHA Anyone who knows me from other GNR forums knows I'm not going to kiss anyone's ass. If the album sucks, expect to read about it; if it is good, expect to hear due gratitude but do NOT expect me to be kissing Axl's ass for putting out a long overdue album. That's your job....

Yeah uh huh, I really give a crap about bumping my post count up.... ::)

Maybe then I can recieve the "post king" crown? YAAAAY

The thread itself has no purpose....there are no grounds to suggest this album is delayed because of perfectionism and so, I added replies that were just as valuable!

when did this thread STOP being about fucking reindeer in finland?!  ???  :'(

Since you can't discuss the topic like you should, I'll just end it right now.

All this off topic whining is really boring.


/jarmo