Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Scientists in Australia have just achieved a medical breakthrough. They killed some dogs, drained their blood, embalmed them with a salt water/ice solution,waited several hours, then drained the solution and reinserted blood into their bodies. They came back to life, apparently like they had never died. Human studies are going to start within the year. This has major implications. Mankind is going to find out if there is indeed a heaven or hell. Imagine being dead for 3 hours and then coming back to life? Its chilling. My heart literally skipped a beat when I read the article. Will it disprove heaven and hell, or will God not be fooled by mankind's attempt at playing God? Is there anything mentioned in the bible that relates to this story?

that wouldn't work too good on humans. brain damage or damage to other organs would set in if it was for 3 hours or more.

reminds me of that movie with kevin bacon but. flatliners?  ???

it'd be no different from going to bed, (you dying)..........and then waking up (them putting the blood back into u and bringing u to life). There'd be no consciousness inbetween the time it takes to do the procedure. that's just my take on it.

do you have a link for that? because i haven't seen any news about it here in australia

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html

* SCIENTISTS have created eerie zombie dogs, reanimating the canines after several hours of clinical death in attempts to develop suspended animation for humans. *

cool thanks. i'm reading it now.

despite what i already think this sort of thing will be really really interesting. quite fascinating really.

edit: ok i've read it now. seems they're pretty sure there's no brain damage and such. crazy crazy stuff i say

Actually, the brain damage factor is one of the major breakthroughs. The salt water/ice solution apparently prevents organ damage. Crazy shit indeed. I think the solution has to be at a specific temperature. I disagree with you about sleep and death. They are not the same. When you are sleeping your body is at rest and you are in a dream like state. Death is when you absolutely cease to exist. Big difference between the two. I read an article the other night on the net when I couldnt go to sleep. I'll try to find it. I think it was at some science website or something. Its not in the mainstream news yet, but it will be.

I just went and read the link you posted. Although its the same story, its not the same site I seen it at the other night. The news must really be spreading. Cant wait to hear more about it on the news, or maybe the Science Channel.

i know sleep and death are not identical, but both have no consciousness. ofcourse i'm assuming the sleeping person isn't dreaming. my view is that.......just say i went through with the procedure........i'd be dead.......it would be like that time that passes when your sleeping you know?.............and it'd seem like seconds later and i'd be awake even though 3 hours has passed.

im not denying that this sort of stuff is amazing. but is there any sort of thing that seperates this from, for instance cases where somebody has heart has stopped, and they have no pulse (basically dead) but are then brought back to live through rescusitation or electric shock. they may be dead for maybe only a few mins but the principle is the same. they don't have consciousness in between that time.

they're experiences would be what they remember before their death ?then *big gap* .........then the time after being revived is when they're mind would "kick in" so to speak.

this is ofcourse simply my opinion.

what's more interesting to me is that isis/osiris story 3000 years ago in egypt.

Because should it work on humans, it would mean isis was a fucking amazing surgeon and a woman  :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

ok, and would mean, on a more serious note, that egyptians had a few thousand years of advance on their descendants?

Weird...

If they bring u back then u didn't actually die

Death is a state from which u do not return - other wise its not death is it?

Thus u could 'die' and come back years later and never have actually been dead

Doesn't have any implications for heaven n' hell.

what a waste of time and money. it's up to the individual if it wants to believe in a 3000 year old myth in two-thousand-and-fucking-five, but science should have the knowledge to realize that this project will do nothing but stir up controversy.

i like controversy.

I don't like to believe simply because i am told to.
I don't like to do because i am told to.
I don't like to take orders.
I don't like to walk a way simply because i am told it's the only way.

Controversy is like a sister to me.

yeah, i like controversy too alot of times but that doesn't change the fact that scientists are spending their time and money on a project that would've been more relevant in the dark ages than it is today.

this is some pretty cool shit, but doesnt have any implications for heaven and hell.

how is killing dogs in any way cool? it's sick that's what it is, and it should never happen in any country.

I'm impressed when they kill the dogs, then switch one dogs head to the other and then bring them back to life

uh, did u read the article ?

what about saving a major injury or blood loss ?
what about reviving people that have been in a car wreck ,

it's a huge step.
and it's about cheating death.

it's just that some injuries were so critical they led to death. now we can avoid that.

hell and heaven have notthing to do with that. i'm not religious. but i can see that science will never destroy religion, because they're on 2 different level. sciences aregument have no weight in the magical / spiritual world of religion.

saving someone that JUST suffered an injury is something. but we'll start having moral debates when we'll be able to revive people like hours or days after their death ....

 How can you guys say it doesn't have implications for Heaven and Hell? When you die, your soul leaves your body. If you believe in life after death, you go to either destination. If you are 'resurrected', then basically your soul is back in your body. Either death is heaven or hell, or its a black void. I think this is the biggest breakthrough of our generation. If heaven and hell exist, how can the soul be retrieved from either place? And Oddy, I know this sounds crazy, but there actually is a difference in being dead for a few minutes and being dead for a few hours. When your dead for a few minutes, there are neuron charges going off in your brain. Sort of like a 'last gasp'. Even if a CT scan shows you're dead, your not dead completely. I've read about this in science journals. Scientists think that the 'white light' you see in the few minutes after death is actually just your brain's last gasp at life. Now, if you've been dead for 3 hours, you are REALLY dead. All brain activity has ceased. You have officially reached the 'point of no return'. Well, scientists have just breached that 'point of no return. This is going to be a HUGE worldwide story after the human trials. There are political, religious,scientific, and ethical implications to this. It could possibly bring organized religion to its knees.

WAT-EVER, yeah I read the article. Saving lives is the most minor issue with this breakthrough. In the history of mankind, no one has been dead for 3 hours and been brought back to life. The only person is Jesus, and scientifically that cant be proven. We live in VERY interesting times.

the thing is there are no rules in religion and spiritual belief, they dont write stuff like " the sould leaves the body after 3h and 29 minutes "
faith is not something logical.
if we can save people that are clinicly dead for 3hours, then faithful people will say, well   "the soulstays longer than that, so it's fine."
if we save someone after a day, they 'll say   " no, but god knew that you were gonna save him, so he told the soul to stay in the body ...."

logic does not work.

and also, scientist dont care about hell or heaven, they care about progress, and here saving lives. that's it.

and death is just a concept. we defined it by what we knew until know. but we keep discovering things.
so don't see all that as "destroying" our beliefs, it's just that we're starting to understand.

same in every field. we keep discovering elements that are smaller and smaller. when we thought that the atom was the smallest thing only decade ago.

Yeah, I'm agreeing with the people I seldom find myself agreeing with here...

...It doesn't disprove 'heaven and hell' for shit.

In simple terms it merely puts the body into a frozen state and then revives it, however long later. That's like saying you'd be dead if you were in stasis.....................

Talk about a discombobulating thread title...

It's already been done with humans...Keith Richard is living proof... :hihi:Kidding!
IMO this has nothing to do with disproving heaven and hell

Yes, it is written in revelations. John 16:7; Evil Australian scientists kill some dogs to test God. Their evil plan is so successful that they decide to start testing on each other, but suddenly, the alien cat that was stuck in Kujo's ass flies to the science lab and kills them.The world is then restored to its peaceful state.

the soul is not the self. the brain is not the self. the body is not the self. This has no implications for heaven and hell.

The dogs did not die as the self that makes them be was not extinguished. Merely other parts of their physical being.

Agree on that, I don't think that has something to do with heaven or hell, If you die you don't have to come back or else you're Jesus or Lazarus ?:hihi:, but anyway I don't think that any of these has to do if there's a heaven or hell cause thats just matter of belief, for instance a lot of people think that life its hell in here so I don't think that prove anything.

You guys make some interesting points, but I still disagree. When your blood is drained, salt water sent through your veins, and your organs shut down, you're dead. Not hibernation, suspended animation,etc. You're fucking DEAD. There is no disputing this fact. Sure, the procedure is preserving your flesh, but that doesn't change the fact that you're dead. I cant hardly believe that you guys dont see the implications of this. The technology will only get better. Instead of just 3 hours, it'll turn to 12, 24, days, weeks, etc. You guys really think God is gonna keep someone in limbo because they have salt water in their veins? I dont think so. For the first time in history, mankind is about to take a step into infinity, and be brought back to tell the world if they seen anything. Truly fascinating.

If scientists can disprove heaven/hell, how the hell was this world created along with humans, animals, land and so on? I've heard  real religious people are against scientists , I know like cloning and that stuff. 

MikeB, thats the million dollar question. This breakthrough brings up major issues. Once more research goes into this, and human trials start, I have a feeling the world will never be the same again.

I read the article on Zombie dogs from collegehumour.com

Its pretty cool shit dudes...

But I'm with John on this!

Imagine no Heaven it's easy if you try... no hell below us above us only sky...

Jimmer, its starting to look like John Lennon may have been right after all.

why not just ask Slash or Nikki Sixx, they've both been dead, right? ;D

I agree with the dudes who say this doesn't prove whether there is heaven and hell or not.

For those of you that dont believe this breakthrough will eventually prove or disprove heaven and hell, what would prove it? If being brought back from the dead doesnt prove anything, what the hell would prove it?

The humor in this entire experiment is the fact that people believe that they can out smart God.  If there is a Heaven or Hell wouldnt it follow that there is a God and that God knows when someone is really going to die or live.  Thus, why would God send someone to Heaven or Hell knowing that they are about to be revived? 

The scientists basically kill the person; then God comes in and says, "Hey looks like Fred is dead.  I guess its time to send him to Heaven or Hell."  "Oh, shit!  Wait a second, the mortals fooled me, he is still alive."

Thats the problem, somethings just cant be proven by scientists in a laboratory.  Scientists are always seeking to prove or disprove everything, however, some theories are beyond proof.

In a way, to an extent , I believe someone created the earth, but his/her enemy controls it,we're left with a freedom of choice.

I believe in God. I have many questions concerning the bible and other things. But something created the universe. It didn't happen by chance. But this new breakthrough is definitely an attempt at mankind trying to achieve a God like stature. This breakthrough ranks right up there with that 'Theory of Everything' that physicists are looking for.

this is so lame, how about instead of wasting time and money killing dogs to see if there really is a heaven or hell we take the money and use it to research aids, or try to cure cancer... i mean theres so many better things to look into. and anytime mankind has tried to play God we've been shut the fuck down. its not gonna happen. liek how about instead of using it to disprove something thats impossible to physically disprove, we use the time and money to benefit humanity...

well, that explains why the people that have died and been revived always have stories of "white light" or seeing angels and such. there's still brain activity going on. i've always wondered about that. i wonder if there'll be such stories when brain activity has completely ceased now. fuck this is amazing

Bollocks. Someone contact the SPCA..  ::)

you really dont get it.
saving lives: thats not really wasting time ....

people are really confused here. they talk about hell and heaven. and then they're like " yeah, we'll finally prove that they don't exist".
if you don't believe in it, then they don't exist.
if you do believe in hell and heaven then nothing can disprove it. faith is NOT something logical. you don't disprove faith.

whats more funny is people talking about "souls". come on. don't bring soul in a scientific talk. soul ....ahahhah..... what about spells, dragons and the one ring ?

All sounds like shit to me, Why the fuck are they wasting taxpayers money on this crap.
Find a fucking cure for AIDS and cancer, then ill give a fuck.

I agree with the thing that it's better use science in searching a cure for aids or cancer but not wasting something that still doesn't know for sure that its gonna work, humanity haven't solve on problem and now is trying to resolve another one. I think that money shoud be better use in AIDS, cancer or other desieses, research for cures.  :peace:

.... trying to find a way to save people life is wasting time ?
next time you get in a huge car accident and you lose half your blood and you're about to die, you tell the doctor to go work on aids .... ?_?
what they did on the dogs, mean that they will maybe be able to save people that have been seriously inujured or even "dead" for while. (at that point death definition will be changed)

jameslofton. If i chop off my arm i am still the same person. If i wake up one day to find myself in the body of another i'm still the same person. Every seven years your body will have replaced every single cell that exists in your body. Just like if doctors stop my pulse, drain away all my vital fluids, replace all my organs, etc, etc. I AM STILL THE SAME PERSON. The Self continues on.

This experiment doesnt mean anything when it comes down to heaven and hell because you don't take those things with you. If doctors can remove the Self and return it then Heaven and Hell will have been disproven. Not before.

Like i said earlier, the self is a far more complcated thing than any scientist has even contemplated. God will not and can not be disproven in a laboratory. The idea of God, Heaven and Hell can only be disproven in the mind as that is the only constant of the self.

Yeah fuck scientist crap! Find out how to end cancer and aids which is a threat to the human race. Or learn how to regrow trees faster without killing animals. there's a lot more worse problems in this world that need to be solved intead of superficial crap.

someone change the title of the thread, cause everybody is getting confused and say stupid shit.
the article is about saving people lives; geeeez !

Wat-Ever, why should the thread title be changed? They are literally going to bring people back from the dead and they are going to say if they seen anything. Thats the big issue here, its not just about 'saving lives'.

Who gives a fuck if they 'dispell' heaven/hell. If you want to believe in heaven or hell, go ahead. A sizable chunk of people in Western countries have started thinking differently years and years ago. Nothing is stopping people from believing or or not. The big issue IS saving lives.

If someone is dead for several hours, and then comes back, and says they didnt see anything, that wont change your perspective on the prospect of heaven and hell's existence?

no because:

a) they dont belive in heaven and hell and thus wouldn't witness something they dont belive in. the kingdom of heaven is reserved to those who belive in god

or

b) the period of suspension that they were in wasn't a long enough time to see heaven or hell.

Heaven and hell has to do with souls, if you die, you soul "escapes" your body and makes its destination to paradice or suffering. because some people dont belive in this, their souls, if they have any, dont escape, and thus stay in the boby, making reincarnation,again if they belive in it, impossible. It is all a matter of belif, and scientists playing God would never acheive to see if these realms exsit unless they die and catholics and live by God's word.

I also agree with this belif. Instead of wasting money to try and play God waste money to try and find vaccenes for human illnesses

why would you assume the person doesn't believe in heaven or hell. what if the person volunteering is some 80 year old who is about to die anyway but believes in god and or heaven/hell.

this test is to see whether the "mind" or the "self" can exist without the body. if during the time that the person is dead they say they saw nor remember anything then you could probably conclude that the mind cannot exist without the body. if they say they went on a magical journey filled with adventure or what not, then yes the mind could be proven to exist without the body.

ofcourse since humans would do anything to become immortal most of us like to believe there is an eternal afterlife. immortality is present in everysingle religion in some way or form. so if the mind could exist without the body then we've got what we want and thats immortality.

body cannot live without the mind, but mind can live without the body, your mind, your thoughts, your dreams, your fears, your hopes, that all makes up who in reality you are. If the mind can be utilised and placed in a new body, than th person wouldn't change because the mind is who we are. Thats where the soul comes in. Although the mind is in fact the control centre for all this, scientificly, the mind is more of a physical controll centre. the soul is more of a control centre for our thoughts, dreams, and fears. although i belive the two are linked, i belive that if one puts complete faith in god, then thier stpiritul mind, thier soul, is free, they go to heaven or hell, depending on thier karma.

Oddy, you hit the nail on the head. You understand what this thing is really about. I started laughing when other people in this thread started saying it was about saving lives. Some other off the wall shit has been said in this thread too. I guess some people have difficulty in understanding the breakthrough that mankind is attempting.

you are all confused, because you're trying to think "logically" and "sciencitifcally" while you go on about Hell and Heaven !!!??!?

sould ? self ? what the hell are you talking about , this is science. there is no such thing as hell, soul in science.

if you believe in hell and heaven, why would even considet thinking that it could be disproved ?

if you don't why would you even mention these words in a phrase.
i did not wait for scientist to do this test, i dont believe in hell nor heaven, and that's it.

you brain is lets say state A = your memory, your personality.
you "die", your brain stays in state A
we bring you back to life before it's too late = brain is still in state A, therefore your are still yourself ...

but the mind is dependant on a body. the mind doesn't become active......like you said until it is placed in a new body.

damage is done to the brain, there is a result on the mind. you drink alcohol, there is a consequence on the mind. i think it is safe to say that there is a strong connection between the mind and the brain. maybe such a connection that one cannot exist without the other. this test may solve that answer. do you know how many philosophers have pondered this. i've read some stuff for a uni course........man, descarte was around in the 1600's pondering this its been a significant problem for philosophy and this experiment may just provide some sort of answer (more than just a theoretical answer).

look there's no point in arguing this, you have your faith and nothing can override that and that is actually something i admire in people. i believe there is a god or some almighty being that created this universe, but i do not believe human beings are immortal. becareful what you wish for, would you really want to be around..........forever............forever...........forever...........forever *echoes into distance*

just a thought.

heaven and hell is ment to be a faith, so im just gonna leave it that way and have faith  :P

All you guys who say that this is all a waste of time and that scientists should be curing cancer or whatever instead, are morons!

1) There are already scientists who are trying to find a cure for aids and cancer.
2) This research will be used to save lives! Imagine if your mother was in a fatal car accident and died because she lost too much blood. I dont think you would say it was a waste of time if they were able to revive her hours or even weeks after she died.

On the heaven/hell issue, what if the person revived might not be able to remember if they went to Heaven or Hell. Your brain will be left behind with your body right? So how will you remember if you went to Heaven if your memory isnt working because your brain isnt...

i get what you were saying but poeple wernt ment to be ressurected from the dead and live forever.

well you think that all people in the world is selfish like you?? if I'd were in a car accident and theres no cure for it will I fucking cry like theres no tomorrow, of course I will cry cause theres no tomorrow for me, but people are still living and dying slowly in the world and people are solving other stuff, people sometimes are a little norrow minded!

:: sigh ::

You're wrong about it disproving heaven and hell, for various reasons, but mainly because it won't be a cure for death.

As I said before, it's like being put in stasis, suspended animation.

You are only dead when the body is free of all outside interference, and ceases to be alive.

...In my view, at least.

Yeah I would dare to say you quite right, but people here are arguing if this will disprove heaven or hell, as one guy said before is just matters of beliefs, even if someone told me theres no heaven well I will still beleive theres a heaven for and dont give a shit what other thinks, right so that will prove nothing.  :peace:

i was the guy :)