Here Today... Gone To Hell!

alright.
the thing is that we're waiting for CD and we don't understand how it can take so long. and we don't see why axl isnot talking to us or the media.

but see, lets say you're getting ready to go out. and your friends are waiting for you at a caf? or something.
and you show up , um, 1h late (not so bad)

for them, it was like " where the fuck is he ? did he get lost ? did he took the right metro ?"
and they try to call you, but the call don't go through ... and they way, and it's hell.

back to you.
you're online talking to your girlfriend on msn, then you tell her you don't have time, you gotta go out, and she says "you're a douchebag .."
then you start getting dress, but you dont like that shirt, so you change it. and then you do your hair, then you look for your sunglasses. and then the phone rings, mom. you brush your teeth, you run to the metro, you wait, metro stops, you wait. and you get to your friends.
* the same hour is like 10 minutes for you.

same thing in life. a year ago, when i was reading news about my favorite video games being postponned or something, i was like " what the hell ?? what are they doing ? it's not that hard !!!"
and now that i'm inside ubi soft, i see how it goes, and i see people complaining about ghost recon 3 getting pushed up, or stuff like that.

so it's the same with GNR.
there is a difference between how we felt these 5 or 6 years, not only the length but also the reasons and explanation.
a difference with how people IN gnr feel it.

i dont know if my point is clear.
just that if CD is late, if Axl is silent: there are reasons. good reasons. and it muste be hell for axl too.
we already complain about the wait, while we have lives (well, some of us) and things to do and worry about.
Chinese Democracy is Axl's life. his whole time. (i guess ...)

" time is different sometimes" - jessica simpson, 2003

There may be some truth to this.  Insane people do not percieve time as the rest of us do.  Axl probably has little concern for what year we may happen to be living in at the moment.

I don't really know what you are talking about but what I know is that all that silence starts to get on my nerves.
the lack of news is... :no:

Well Axl's story is a little different than yours about friends waiting for him at a cafe. Everybody knows when it comes to a release date Axl, Tommy,... all seem to be full of shit. So for us to complain about CD not being released every day is like waitng for water to boil.
Its like wer'e staring at the pot and waiting for the water to boil. Anyone who waits that long will eventually become unpatient and pissed off. Thats why some of us do things to occupy ourselfs until the water begins to boil, that way it wont seem as long.

Axl seems to have missed  out alot in his life. He's in his mid 40's already, no girlfriend or wife and kids. If I choose to get married and have kids real later in my life , the oldest is going to be in my late 30's.

Who knows man.  He seems to have found some happiness with Beta and her family.  And how do you know he has no girlfriend right now?

bessamk, I guess to understand your point... and I agree with you

good !

but also, i'm not trying to defend axl and all. it's just that, " as we're on the other side of the fence, we don"t understand ...." kevin bacon, 2001

What? !@#%   Kevin Bacon is doing guest vocals on CD ??? Holy shite this is awesome !!!!

*scurries off to Sp1at.com*

I can see what you are saying but Axl is a professional musician.  And yes, while I do feel for him and the problems he has, he also has an obligation to his fans.  I know alot of you dissagree with that but I feel he does.  We support him through and through and I think if anything he should let us know what's going on.   He doesn't have to give us the album but at least if he gave us a statement or a message we wouldn't have these discussions on whether he really doesn't give a fuck or if he really has had tremendous problems getting this cd out.  The silence is deafening and while I don't believe he doesn't give a fuck at all, I do believe the more silence that goes on every year, the more and more fans will get frustrated and not be sympathetic towards him at all, it's happening now.

You guys, perception of time is not the issue. What has been accomplished DURING that time is the main issue.

I hope you're right.  I hope when I get CD in my hands I will say, yes this was totally worth the wait.  I know I will love the album, I just hope we get it soon.  We all have been waiting so long.

DTJ, I think the universal reaction to CD is gonns be," You mean we waited 12 years for this!?". It doesnt matter how good or bad the material is, thats what people are gonna say. It would take a true masterpiece to make the 12 year wait null and void.

Axl doesn't have an obligation to anyone except himself.  Ultimately, it's his life.  If Chinese Democracy never surfaces, you (the fans) will have lost nothing, but, Axl will have lost a lot of time and energy dedicated to something that never comes to pass. 

Yeah, Axl was gonna release the album in 2003, but then he got a phone call, then he decided he wanted to wear the blue bandana, then Seinfeld came on and he was like, "Oh shit I'll just watch this one episode", but it was a marathon, then it was dinner time, then his car broke down, then Jerry Rice left the Raiders so he had to get a Randy Moss jersey to wear, then all of a sudden it was 2005 and the album still wasn't out yet. 

That was very eloquent, buggin.  ;)

"I think it was deep in the way that it was very light. I think lightness has to come from a very deep place if it's true lightness." -? Alicia Silverstone

is dat a real quote ? ;D

jameslofton29 : i see what you mean, but it's the way insiders (management, band) feel the time is important. they don't worry, they don't rush.
same thing with my story of the guy getting ready to go out.
he didnt do much (get dressed, brush teeth) but he took his time, and didnt rush.
same thing with axl. he does not "realize" that people can wait for CD that much. he is just doing his thing. at his rythm.

ohhhh....so what you're saying is Axl is still on the metro trying to get to the studio, right?

I agree..   It's the media and his peers that will probably have the reactions you stated above and the VR fans that aren't really or just aren't into new GNR as much as they are into old GNR.
I truthfully don't like to use the word masterpiece when talking about music because that label is just not something that any band should HAVE to live up to no matter how long they take to do an album.

DTJ, you're absolutely correct. No band should have to contend with the term 'masterpiece'. But Axl is used to it by now. Dont you remember 89-91, when the Illusions records' "Big Guns" were described as "massive epics"? It built alot of suspense for the records, and made the wait almost unbearable. As for CD, it isn't the media that throws these terms around like in the Illusions days. Its Axl's band members. They throw around terms like 'mind blowing' and 'earth shattering', and Axl's reference to certain songs being 'Big Guns'. If Axl wants to blame someone for the high expectations, he needs to only look in the mirror and in the direction of his bandmates.

Yes I do remember 89-91 and yes the media was massively hyping those albums more than the band before they actually came out, also, it had never been done before that so much material was released at once and had"massive epics" on them.  No doubt that back then, they delivered what was described by the media.    Themselves when they talked about the material for Illusions I can see how you are right cause I have interviews on dvd now of the band back then and they didn't use terms such, big guns, earth shattering, mind blowing..your right...  I also believe the duration of time does add to the high expectations of this album because in combination with the comments and the years..people are going to put this under a microscope and totally expect something greater than great.  I can't agree with you more that only they are to blame for that.

DTJ, the hyping of this album is a key issue. It makes you wonder what Axl's mindset really is, and its one of the major issues that sometimes makes me question the album's existence. As you mentioned, the 'old' GNR never had to hype. The music was allowed to speak for itself. Any hyping of GNR was left strictly in the hands of the media. With the 'new' GNR, the exact opposite is true. The media practically ignores them, and the band has done nothing but hype the record. What are they trying to accomplish by doing this? Doesn't Axl know that by not hyping CD, there would have been an aura of mystery to it and people would still be interested? Instead, he wound up digging himself into a very deep hole, and he may realize that he cant get himself out of it. When the final chapter in the story of CD is finally over, I think people are going to see that things had started to go terribly wrong when Axl/the band started to hype it to unrealistic expectations.

I don't think it has been hyped that much (its not as if the band are huge celebtiries)..if anything he has been ridiculed by the press and now feels he has to prove a point...which is why his expectations might be so high.

Hasn't been hyped that much?? Where have you been? Axl's bandmates might not be big celebrities, but its well documented that they have been hyping CD for years. And Axl has done his part in hyping CD, and considering the fact that he rarely speaks, Axl's hype stands out even more. I dont agree with your 'Axl being ridiculed by media' statement. There never was a media conspiracy against Axl. But CD has definitely become a pop culture joke. But that's Axl's fault, not the media's.

I think Axl been more ridiculed by his peers.. Over the 2 years anyway, people like Dee Snider, Jacob Dylan, Zakk Wylde and others have taken shots here and there at Axl, some more insulting than others in interviews I have read or on televised shows.  It's true the media tend to leave Axl alone for the most part neither hyping or ridiculing CD.  The NYT time article was the only article on Axl from the media I have seen so far about the CD situaton in an unfavorable and ridiculing manor in the past 3 years, other than that, at least I have seen anything else from the media dealing with the situation.  The articles before Axl made his comeback in 2001-02 really mentioned CD as a wait and see never ridiculed.  I don't believe a media conspiracy either because I don't think the media cares all that much.  When CD is here then I think the media will start caring a bit more.

axl has done more in 43 years than 99.99% of us will do in a lifetime. if having a girlfriend is your highest goal in life then that's on you. axl obviously focuses on other things which are more important to him, and he's had enough women to go around for 2 lifetimes. what do you know about him missing out? he shapes his life the way he wants it to be, and for you to speak on his behalf saying that he's missing out is pure ignorance.

Well, I retract the 'ridiculed by the media' statement, but there hasn't been much positive press about him or the album.

As for the band hyping...well Robin keeps his trap firmly shut, Chris Pittman is illusive, and despite the Sp1at interview Brain seems to be sincere when asked about it. I mean maybe 'earth shattering' is a little ott, but what else should they say? 'Oh yeah, well its borderline average, has its moments'. Fuck no, I'd rather hear them be excited and enthusiastic about it otherwise we may as well give up all hope now.

What gets me is the '2005 will be the year for GNR' comments by Merck. I hope he's being genuine about this.

who the fuck is merck? and people have been saying the same thing for years, only it's been "2002", "2003", "2004" and soforth. stop believing all this "insider" bullshit. when axl or his management announces something, that's when we can start getting excited. until then, calm down and realize that it's already july 2005, and a release date this year is highly unlikely. when it comes it will be extraordinary, but until then, all we fucking do is turn our own expectations too high, only to get them torn down again. my suggestion is keep busy and it won't bother you as much, the time will come soon enough to get excited.

August, I agree with your statement about Axl not needing a girlfriend. If you are an artist, and trying to create your biggest masterpiece, the last thing you need is to be in a relationship. A relationship would only cloud your thoughts and distract you from your task at hand. I wonder if its possible that one of the reasons for the delay is the fact that Axl might have been in a long term relationship at some point?

What I don't like about that statement by Merck is that is vague.  Cause some people are taking that one statement and automatically thinking that CD will be out this year.   I take that statement as if it's not out this year Merck will say, I never said the album was going to be released.  Like he threw us a bone this year with a statement like that to keep us excited or interested for this year but vague enough so that if GNR does nothing, Merck can say "well I never said that CD was coming out"

August - Merck is Axl's Manager.

DTJ, Merck issuing that statement is going to go down as the biggest mistake he ever made. When 2006 comes and there is no CD, he will have lost all credibility he had. In January, if he says 2006 is the year of Guns N Roses, are you gonna believe him?

I don't believe him now :hihi:   I think it's just a bandaid for another year that we won't see it and something to pacifiy us until New Years Eve.

merck is axl's manager?? when did that happen?? i thought good ol' doug goldstein still had that job? and here i was thinking that i manage to scoop up most up what happens in the gn'r world! what?? :confused:

DTJ, I wonder what the bandaid for 2006 is gonna be? LMAO! It will probably be another song leak, if it is a leak, most likely a studio version of a song we've already heard.

ok Wat-Ever, i get what your saying but still, 5 years is a long time, i dont see how 5 years to someone can be interprerted into a year or two to anyone.

is doug goldstein still the manager of guns n' roses and this merck guy (is his name david? could be i've heard of him) is more like axl's personal manager? or what's the deal?

Merck Mercuriadis, is GNR's manager and the CEO of Sanctuary Group.  Doug Goldstein hasn't been GNR's manager in a couple of years, I believe after the tour he they parted ways but I not exactly sure when Merck took over as manager.

 ;D yeah, it'll be something for sure and we will be all over it like we were with IRS, some small crumb to keep us interested and excited for another year, it's sad really when you think about how starved we are, even a statement like that from Merck is enough to keep us going another year.   I'd really like to believe him, really but too many years have gone by to say for sure that this will be GNR's year and put total faith into what he says.  I hope he proves me wrong but somehow, I just dont think so.   Call me pessimistic but it's hard not to be.

DTJ, I always thought it was funny how people never believed the IRS leak was an inside job. They say, oh the GNR camp wanted it pulled from the net. Yeah, they wanted it pulled AFTER their intended audience got a hold of it. Believe me, if a fan had the song, it would have surfaced on the net the day after it was played on that radio show. But look what day it leaked: APRIL FOOLS!! You didnt know if it was for real or just a joke. I knew it was real the day it leaked, but I couldnt stop laughing. CD was already turning into a satire and then that happened. It was hilarious. This site was down at the time, but at mygnr there was a shitload of people dissecting the song second by second, verse by verse. The same thing will happen again. And if 30 seconds of a "Big Gun" leaks, the earth might stop rotating. LMAO!!

when and in what context did merck say that 2005 was gonna be the year of guns n' roses?

Mygnr was madness I remember reading the disecting of lyrics and people posting that they listened to it 100 times. ? I see what you are saying about an inside job, although I am still a bit on the fence with that. ?Could be that it was leaked maybe not by GNR themselves but by the record co to keep people interested because they need to have us in order to make some money back :hihi:

When he wrote his response to the New York Times article.

could be, but why then would they be so quick to want it back? to spark even more interest for what the hell is going on? lmao

He said it earlier this year, and if memory serves me correctly, he said,"2005 WILL be the year of Guns N Roses!" That's a very bold statement.

what type of article was this?
this is a strange and amazing phenomenon we're witnessing, i must say :hihi: unheard of in music before, but then again it's axl we're dealing with here and when CD is released and the world will be kissing his ass, that's when i'll be more than proud to have been following him and believing in this project all these years when others didn't. : ok:

August, you've NEVER read the NYT article?? Where have you been?? It is required reading for all GNR fans. By the way, it is NOT a positive article concerning CD. Check it out anyways.

i will thanx. i can't find it on this site though, could you post a link? i dunno how the hell i could've missed it, i usually watch these fan sites like a hawk, lol. but i did however read a very, very good and positive article about axl from 2002 though. it was not a review of the shows but it was discussing his relevance on the music scene. hold on, i'll post it.

August 14th, 2002
Ready to rock again, or is bloom off the Roses?
Florida Times Union August 14th, 2002
 
 
Axl Rose is preparing the first record of Guns originals in 11 years. Should we still care?
By Nick Marino
Times-Union music critic

Think of popular music as one giant company.

Before a given VP of Hard Rock steps down, he usually appoints a successor, a smart junior executive with gobs of potential who can embody the company philosophy and keep the shareholders happy.

Mr. Led Zeppelin taps Mr. Aerosmith who taps Mr. Kiss and so on.

These power exchanges assure that the original exec's legacy lives and expands in the form of the new hire. And, with the exception of chairmen-for-life the Rolling Stones, the exchanges give senior bosses with declining artistic visions a discreet and much-needed exit.

From 1987 to 1991, Guns N' Roses held the key to the executive suite. Their reign started with the howling intro to Welcome to the Jungle and ended after the closing strains of November Rain, a four-year period in which Guns were unusually secure in their position at the top.

They were the Zeppelin, Aerosmith and Kiss of their generation, a heavyweight rock act with enormous cross-generational appeal and unlimited sales potential.

Kiss eventually ceded power to the equally flamboyant (and probably more talented) Van Halen. And Van Halen turned it over to Guns N' Roses.

But Guns' old office has remained empty since they stormed out of the building a decade ago. A few artists have poked their heads in, but no one has had the chutzpah to actually sit in the big chair.

GNR remains the last great American band who both wanted the job and was qualified to hold it.

Eddie Vedder had the resume, but he never cared to be a cog in the corporate machine, which is why Pearl Jam, his band of reluctant heroes, has spent its collective career fighting Ticketmaster, bootleggers and the rest of the music-business meanies.

And Kurt Cobain, you might remember, wanted so desperately not to become a corporate stiff that he blew his own head off when the board of music directors tried to thrust him behind the mahogany desk.

Axl Rose wanted the job, and he had credentials to burn. That banshee howl, that grand ambition, that command of the masses -- these gifts alone would have made him a star.

But what made him a legend was the group of musicians that provided his launching pad. Guns N' Roses was a merciless band (a ruthless management team, if you'll extend the business metaphor) with any number of members responsible for some of the most memorable rock melodies in the last 25 years.

Slash's lead riff in Sweet Child O' Mine is still recognizable within two seconds. Matt Sorum's hard-driving drumline made You Could Be Mine Guns' most explosive song since Jungle. Even underrated keyboardist Dizzy Reed contributed, lending a loose pianoline to the little-heard tune Bad Obsession that swings like prime Billy Powell during Lynyrd Skynyrd's bluesiest moments.

Guns N' Roses played blues-based pop-metal, a label that has stuck to no one else because no one else has tried to make it work. The band became huge precisely because of that unique, all-encompassing sound.

By deftly blending blues, pop and metal, they managed not to alienate adults who grew up on Hendrix or high school kids who headbanged to Metallica, or even younger MTV junkies who might also have liked, say, New Kids on the Block.

Edgy and singable, street-ready and radio-ready, Guns was the last major band with true mass appeal. Linkin Park may be able to sell 8 million records today, but not to anybody out of college.

Ordinarily, in the great rock power exchange, we might hope for a retired band like Guns to leave their place in rock history untainted by comeback albums, comeback tours or any other half-baked (or as Ben Braddock might say, "completely baked") plots to reassume their glory.

Restraint often seems best for a band that's been dormant for the past several years. After all, once a hotshot newcomer takes your job, you're usually ill-advised to drop by the office one day holding your beat-up briefcase and expecting people to pay $300 to watch you recline in your old office.

But because the band's accomplishments have been so untouchable for so long, and because no other group seems poised to assume their office, we owe it to ourselves to get excited about the re-formed Guns N' Roses and the long-awaited record they might well reveal later this year.

Details on the new group's plans are sketchy at best, but the band seems to be lurching forward. Axl appears on the cover of the September issue of Spin magazine, and his band has scheduled a high-profile concert in Japan for this month, the latest show in a herky-jerky public reintroduction campaign that began early last year with successful performances in Las Vegas and Rio de Janeiro.

Soon after the Rio show, Guns scheduled a European tour to showcase their new lineup, which featured Rose, keyboardist Reed and several unheralded sidemen, including a guitarist named Buckethead who wore a KFC receptacle as a hat.

They announced the tour in February 2001, then canceled it in May, then rescheduled later in May, only to cancel again in November.

In a statement, GNR manager Doug Goldstein indicated that the tour would be postponed until Axl and company completed Chinese Democracy, their first album of original material since Use Your Illusion I and II in 1991.

"I jumped the gun and arranged a European tour, as our plan was to have the new album out this year," Goldstein said, adding that Rose has spent "every waking minute of every day during the last five years writing, recording and producing the record."

Democracy still isn't done, and nobody seems to know when it will be, though everyone hopes it will be soon. The record has become Rose's version of Brian Wilson's Smile, the ambitious follow-up to Pet Sounds that he was unable to finish even with the aid of mind-enhancing drugs and a sandbox 'neath his piano.

Wilson eventually moved on to other projects, but Rose seems determined to finish this one.

Let's hope he does and that, against the odds, it turns out great.

This won't be easy without Slash, Sorum and the rest of the hell-raising sidemen who contributed more than their share to the Guns legacy.

But still, we must have faith. Because in the unlikely event that Chinese Democracy turns out well, it will serve a higher purpose than simply rocking out for its own good -- it will embarrass today's godawful, one-dimensional nu-metal bands the same way Nirvana's Nevermind embarrassed the godawful, one-dimensional hair bands that spent their careers clinging to Axl Rose's heels.

In a primer for the changing of the guard that Cobain suicidally avoided, Nevermind entered stores the very same month as Guns' last offering of original material. Nevermind's punk (or "alternative" as we called it back then) attitude scared off all the mascaraed Poisons and Skid Rows of the world, and ushered in a whole new army of leaner, hungrier, less pretentious bands.

Guns never tried to keep up with Nirvana and the rest of the new acts. They just toured behind their mammoth Illusion set and vanished, reappearing only to release an ephemeral 1994 collection of punk covers called The Spaghetti Incident? and a 1999 live retrospective of their glory days.

Today, the alternative movement has long since run its course. In the 11 years since Nevermind and the Illusion records, we've heard from a lot of bands who realized that it's easier to fake Cobain's despair than to fake Slash's towering riffs.

As a result, we find ourselves subjected to an array of plodding hard rock bands with sad-sack vocalists who made their fortunes moaning in time. That's right Staind and Puddle of Mudd -- we're talking about you.

Upstarts like the Strokes and Hives are fun, but they're never going to conquer the world. Relatively speaking, they'll always work in the company mailroom.

With no superstar saviors on the horizon, the best antidote to today's hard rock doldrums has to be another classic Guns N' Roses record. On a superficial level, the album itself would have its own joys, no doubt.

But the greatest joy of all would be to watch Axl Rose again ride the elevator to the top floor, march into his old office, slam the door and tell Linkin Park to be out of the building by noon.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

His only interest is making the best album he is capable of so that it can have a positive affect in 2005 on people who are enthusiasts of music and interested in Guns N' Roses. His artistic integrity is such that he has chosen to do so without compromise at great personal sacrifice which makes him a soft target for the sort of rubbish you have chosen to print. I believe he will have the last laugh.

This was the statement taken from Mercks letter to the times retorting that article.  But I thought it was said very clearly like James mentioned but it's hard to find with all the many articles that have gone around.

i'd really like to see that article. and the fact that merck decided to respond like this is very pleasing and shows his integrity. bashing guns n' roses and axl especially has been the "cool" thing to do in the media in the last decade, but i too, as merck to galantly put is, believe that axl will have the last laugh, when the hypocrit journalists will be kissing his ass pretty imminent after CD's release. it's no secret that music journalists make u-turns when it comes to opinions when they notice what is popular among the public. kanye west's debut was labeled "mediocre" last year by rolling stone, but once the public embraced it they turned it around to a "classic". just goes to show. the media is hypocritical as ever.

Dude, Why not use the search? It's just underneath "user info" on the left top of any page.

I'm posting the links anyway.

EDIT: Here you are.

1) Merck writes a letter to the NY Times
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=b859613cbb983d9918bc265693ce1e3a&topic=19176.0
2) The most expensive album never made - The New York Times
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=b859613cbb983d9918bc265693ce1e3a&topic=19262.0
3) The Most Expensive Album Never Released - The Times
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14932-1529604,00.html