Here Today... Gone To Hell!

apologies if this type of thread has been created.

n e ways, evry time theres a chart like the best album of all time or the best rock album etc. (u no wot im on about) Appetite for Destruction always pops up. i appreciate its simply magic and 1 of the best albums. however, UYI and Lies r so unappreciated. Lies is one of ma fav albums and so is UYI 1 and they neva go on charts as does UYI 2. Wat do u guys think about that?

I'm gonna say Lies. It's not very popular (only 1 song was a radio hit) and all the songs are pretty kick ass.  Plus it was unique- 1/2 the album was "live" the other was acoustic. 

UYI 1 is an excellent album... so ill go with that

There's several reasons why these albums are overlooked. Lies was too short of an album to make one of those lists. Critics understand what the album was for. Basically just an EP to tide the fans over until Illusions. Illusions doesnt make the lists because it was 2 albums that could have been condensed into one if the filler had been removed. Illusions was also way overproduced and sounds very dated. The only truly timeless record the band made was AFD.

which fillers do u speak of jameslofton

UYI 1: Right Next Door to Hell, Live and Let Die,Garden of Eden, Dead Horse UYI 2: Knockin on Heavens Door, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, Dont Cry, My World.. Dont get me wrong, I like these songs just mentioned(except My World), but if they had been taken off the records it would have made Illusions even better. They could have released these songs as a bonus disc after Illusions was released. Illusions has always suffered from lukewarm reviews because of this fact. They shoved too much material down everyone's throats at once, and the albums suffered for it. They also worked on the songs for so long that every song just sounds too perfect. Delete the songs I just mentioned, wipe off some of the polish, and you have a timeless record.

The first 4 tracks on Lies ain't live.
Axl's words It ain't a live record-if you think it is you're crazy. What we did was go into a room, record ourselves and put 50,000 screaming people on top.

I think Lies is the most underrated GnR album.  :peace:

all the songs on the illusions were a hundred times better than what has been released both at that time and after. there are no fillers, the illusion albums both debuted at #1 because they are 2 of the best albums ever to be made.

August, I agree that they are great records, but yes, there is filler. If you take the really great songs on these albums, and put them into one, it would be a true masterpiece. Unfortunately, Illusions does not make any of the lists for greatest albums ever made. The filler is the main reason for this, and the fact that they worked on it too long, trying to achieve so called 'perfection'. GNR followed in Def Leppard's footsteps in their making of Hysteria. Hysteria has some great songs on it, but suffered so much from overproduction, the album has become dated and irrelevant.

That's why I put live in quotation marks

TSI

Why is a 2nd version of Dont Cry needed? They should have filled that slot with the mysterious GNR track called 'Nightcrawler'. A song that was only mentioned twice, and never surfaced on any of the bootlegs of unreleased material.

Whats wrong with dead horse?

Nothing's wrong with the song Dead Horse, its just one of the weaker songs on Illusions. My point was that if you put the best songs from both albums and put them on one disc, you have a true masterpiece. I wasn't insulting the songs I mentioned that should've been taken off. As I've stated before, the only shitty song on Illusions is 'My World'.

TSI
I'm not a fan of Use Your Illusion 1 also. I prefer the 2nd volume, with more piano in the mix, more bluesy.

That's totally true.  If you only took the say 15 or so best songs from both and made one album it would rival Appettite.  But that being said I'm very happy they didn't do that.  Who knows if the songs left out would've ever seen the light of day.  And then we'd have even less GN'R stuff to enjoy.  Be happy we got as many songs as we did in the short time the band was able to produce original material.

I reckon Lies is under appreciated

a real gem in my book - I love the accoustic side and the first 4 tracks are raw and greasy, like good rock n roll should be

There are fillers in the UYI's. Some tracks are just fucking weak. The music didn't have the same fire as appetite did. AFD made the band seem like an awesome group of badasses but UYI seemed to be only made to hog attention from critics . I don't know, that's just in my book.

MikeB, there is an aspect of UYI that people fail to recognize. Maybe Axl(or Izzy?) realized that no band had ever released two albums before, and they wanted to be the first to do it. And by taking on such a project, there would definitely be some filler involved. Great effort on their part, but I still say it would be a masterpiece if you condensed it into one album with the best songs. Whenever 'old' GNR is mentioned, its usually AFD, even Lies sometimes. UYI was relevant at the time, but doesnt seem to have much staying power.

If UYI 2 didnt hav my world, it'd be kool but UYI 1 is da best GN'R album

None of there album were unappreciated.
AFD: was a classic
UYI 1+2: were pretty average.
LIES: too short.

However that is just my humble oppinion.

Lies is an EP, not a follow up album.  It was supposed to be short.  It was meant to tide fans over cause they knew the Illusions would take a while to complete.

Rob, you made a really good point. Lies was released solely for the fans. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it was given to us so we could handle the wait for Illusions, and so there would be less pressure on the band. Which makes it so hard to believe that Axl didn't do the same during the wait for CD. The wait for CD has been MUCH longer than the wait for Illusions. This is one of the reasons why a certain segment of the fanbase wonder if there's even enough material for a full length album. 12 years of nothing, and he cant do an EP to tide his loyal fans over? Something is wrong. Very wrong. No way in hell is there 50-200 tracks in the vault like some people like to believe.

I guess maybe Live Era was suposed to be that album to tide the fans over?  Although something with original material would have been far more effective.  There's so much unreleased GN'R material, he could have put a little something together and it would've sold huge.  As usual the fans are left questioning why not.

Not doing anything new is whats so shocking about this situation. Sure, we can wait for CD. But CD is its own entity. Why not more songs on soundtracks? An EP with some 'new' songs we already heard? Shit, he couldn't even do an EP of old stuff that was never released. It makes no sense whatsoever. The big shocker was not having a new song or two on the greatest hits album. The last 2 songs could've been the new stuff, representing how the band evolved. He couldn't do it, and I didn't buy the hits album. I never will either. It was obviously released to get money, there was no thought of the fans whatsoever. All that happened concerning 'new' GNR releases is 'Oh My God', and 'This I Love' being rejected for a lame Robin Williams movie. I really hope CD comes out. But I've always had a feeling that something isn't right concerning this situation. The most troubling thing is no leaks at all concerning info about CD. Before Illusions was released, there was info coming out about it all the time. Nothing this time. Also, Axl making every person who comes into contact with him sign a gag order is not a good sign. There's something that they're trying to keep secret, and it's not 50 big guns either.

Maybe Tommy, Robin, Bucket, Richard, and Brain were all just the old band incognito.  When Tommy says something, its really Duff saying something through his alter-ego.  When the album finally comes out all the old guys'll be on it.  Its gonna shock the world!!!!!!  Wow, I'm losing my mind.

Rob, thats funny! But yeah, I agree, sometimes I think I'm losing my mind over this shit too. I'm thinking about stepping away for awhile. Do you do this too, your fascination with CD comes in cycles? I've always wanted a new album since 1993, but I go through varying degrees of interest. I've been writing a novel, and I think I might start working on that even more than I have been. This forum is really going negative. All people seem to do is insult each other. It started at mygnr, and now its happening here too. I actually predicted this turn of events a few months ago, the fanbase crumbling in frustration. Its starting to happen. I enjoy discussing this shit with some of the people here, but alot of them get off on insulting one another, and its starting to get old. If Axl has any "Big Guns", he better bring them to the table, because pretty soon, there wont be a table to put them on.

james, "nightcrawler"? i've never even heard of this track? where was it mentioned, and was it ever played live?
and btw, i never called you an "axl basher" in the other thread, you have to stop putting words in my mouth.

Yeah, James, it definitely comes in cycles.  Right now with this November 29th business going on my interest has been peaked somewhat.  But a couple months ago CD really wasn't on my mind at all.  If this new date turns out to be bogus I don't know how long it'll be until I again think about it.  I'd probably stay pretty active on this board though.  While the insults and bickering are a bit much, I still enjoy talking about the oldm days and other music related issues on this board.  Also...is August 18th the same person as August 15th?  Why the date change?

August, something needs to be cleared up if you want to discuss these issues with me in a professional manner. STOP BASHING ME! In one thread, you say you agree with me and dont bash me, and 5 minutes later in another thread, you specifically use my name when referring to Axl bashers. Its insulting, and its getting old. Until you started doing that, I actually enjoyed debating with you. But I'm starting to lose respect for you. As far as 'Nightcrawler', it was never played live. In fact, no one has ever heard the track. Izzy mentioned it in several interviews in 89-90, while referring to songs for Illusions, but the track has never surfaced. Some people think it was a throw away track. I dont think so. If it was a throw away, it would have surfaced with Crash Diet, Just another Sunday,etc. I have the exact opposite opinion of most people on the subject. I think it was a "Big Gun", but there wasn't enough room for it on the Illusions records, so they held it back. But since GNR never did another real album, the song never surfaced, probably locked in the vault forever.

Both Illusions are very underrated!
To me they are even better than Appetite.
They grew up more...

yes. very true. if UYI2 maybe dropped my world and replaced it or left it as it was, it cud've been a gr8 album. 2getha, theyr gr8 and show huge contrast as UYI1 shows loads of fast, hard hitting rock n roll tunes and UYI2 has a softa bluesy sound