Here Today... Gone To Hell!

SLC made me think...

How would you people define the American Dream as a whole, and specifically what the phrase means to you as an individual?

I don't get it.

It all just seems kinda crap to me, but I dunno. I've never really delved into the mind of someone with a view to finding out what this means to them, so please go ahead and enlighten me.

Obviously this question is aimed mainly at the Americans...

i think it's proberbly just a saying.. you hear it in movies allot these days.
but im from australia and we dont have an australian dream... niether does china or new zeland..

I think the american dream basically means that anyone can become rich and anyone can become successful.  It basically means that opportunity exists, and if one works hard then they can basically do whatever they want in America.  I think it comes from early 1900s when poor immigrants came here and started over.

That's the basic impression I have of it, yeah...and I hate it? :-\ Dreaming of money and 'success' seems to me like a dangerous game for people to play, 'cause they put themselves at risk of becoming slaves to materialism. There must be Americans on this board who would say they follow some sort of American dream, but don't necessarily aim to be rich. That's why I'm asking, 'cause I find it quite shocking to think that a nation could really be as obsessed with money as they seem from my distant perspective. The way I see it, financial riches are too temporary, too unreliable, and aid a happiness which is far too shallow to ever waste any time dreaming of. Surely most people would rather just be happy? Truly happy...

I guess it's easy for someone who's relatively alien to the rat race culture to sit and criticise it, but at the same time I bet a great portion of those people were once on the outside, looking in, and thinking 'What the fuck are they doing? That's not a dream, that's a nightmare...'

I think my heart and my core aims in life are similar enough to a fair few Americans on this board, for me to be shocked if, despite the similarities, they told me one of their biggest goals was to be rich.

The trick (I have found) is defining success.

What is success?

The American Dream that is sold to us, is sold by: Citicorp, Countrywide mortgage, Nike, Mercedes, and so on.

I love the lyrics in "Grand Illusion" by Styx. How appropriate...."Join us in a blind ambition, get yourself a brand new motor car." It is even more true now, as it was then.

People buy and they don't even know why. The yearn for material wealth, but don't know why.

So, to ask yourself what is success, or the "American Dream" requires being very honest with yourself and stripping away all the marketing you have been spoonfed since you could watch/listen/take in information.

It's a tough thing to do.

For me: Time. That is it. I realized the most valuable commodity in my life, more than fast cars, super-sized homes, the latest electronic gizmos, is time. My time. My time to travel, read, camp, hike, ski, and see as much of the world as I can.

So my next question, was how can I do this? I still have a certain comfort level I want to maintain. I still like quality things. But I had to draw the line between "nice" and "doesn't make sense anymore". It took being honest with  myself for those choices. Especially when you COULD have more now. But I have to remind myself that more now, equals less later. And more importantly, less free time.

So I have set a goal in motion, that I may very well pull off (I'll know in about 2-3 yrs). It requires a lot of hard work, wise spending habits, common sense and discipline.The ironic thing is that it would leave me fairly well off (by my standards) too. I fall back sometimes and find myself on ebay cruising new cars, or on realtor.com cruising big houses. Tempting.....but only for an instant. Then I realize they will do nothing but put me to work for another 20 yrs, and I go back to smart mode.

So, to me, the "American Dream" is to come out the other end, not buying into the "American Dream." If that makes sense. The one sold to us, is never enough. It always has to be new, better, faster, sleeker, but is a huge waste of capital over my lifetime, which requires: my time. Something I don't want to share too much of.

It's not about being rich, it's about achieving goals and being proud of the accomplishments.

My father owns a painting company. He had to work different low paying jobs for many years before starting his own company. He stuck to his dream, and was able to have success. And that's what it's about.

As for being rich in this country, the immigrants still turn it out. Right around 80% of new millionaires are immigrants. They come here and bust their ass. Americans work hard too, but many are used to the comforts already afforded them, so they aren't driven to work as hard as people who did everything in their power to get here.

i suggest reading The Great Gatsby. its all about the american dream. wow, something useful from year 10 english, thats a change. great book.

i thought the american dream was that anybody can become successful. anybody can come from nothing and make themselves into something and achieve their dreams if they work hard. the opportunity is there, which can not be said for other countries.

i think thats the basic idea of it.

i dunno but, people that have wild and unachievable goals probably wouldn't achieve them from hard work. probably more luck involved. like my dream of being a rockstar :hihi: im countin on the luck baby :smoking:

Ahhh, the american dream... As somebody once said, it happens only when u dream... ;D

a sorority girl with big boobies, perfect teeth and blond hair.  : ok:

(god, if my girlfriend reads that  ..... well i'd say i was talking about her  :hihi:)

to me, the american dream is opportunity. it's having the freedom to choose whatever life style you want. and knowing that if you work hard and have a smart plan in place, you can reach your goal.

i think many people assume that americans are all about wealth and greed. and many are....i work a white collar job on wall street and i see it first hand. many of these people are obsessed with making more money and buying bigger houses and cars. they justify it by saying it's all for their family. but in reality, i think most kids would prefer to just see their mom and dad every day. and trust me, these people do not see their kids too often.

but i think the majority of people understand what's truly important, and have not become slaves to materialty. i live in philly which is a blue collar town. most of my relatives (and many of my friends) worked blue collar jobs and lived comfortably. now they're all retired at 50, they have great pensions, no bills, kids are all grown, and they are living life doing exactly what they want to do.

i always saw the american dream as a meritocracy; where you can get ahead if you work for it and are talented enough. the reality is pretty different. it's impossible that everyone gets rich; it simply doesnt work like that.

most importantly its a shared belief - even if people have a different view of what their dream is, most american still hold it in high regard. so its a useful tool for keeping the masses together. Anyone "bad" is trying to thwart the american dream, etc....

the american dream to me is just people of lesser countries coming to america to have the chance to make a new life, better living and practice their religion in peace..

lesser countries? is there an objective scale upon which coutries are graded?

maybe I should have worded it better poverty stricken countries.. Like the south of italy back in the day....

maybe you should've.

very few scottish people left for america due to poverty. they were kicked off their land in the highland clearances and the tatty famine didn't help either.

well america only has more Mexicans now then mexico so... I think their dream is to sneak in here,  take all the jobs, not pay taxes, and send the money home instead of spending it here htne I hear SS is in trouble.. :'(

2na I have no idea about the scotts... One of the few countries that I really knew no one from until the interent came around...

don't let me put you off us. we're not all bad.....

Your cool dude I always like strange days (was that his name) from sladdi's board.. I use to enjoy you two talking about dundee :hihi:

I disagree. This year alone nearly 1 million people paid their taxes with Credit Cards in this country. That says a lot: No hard cash.

The average household debt is around 24k in cc's. There is a reason for this: People want to live beyond their means.

Americans carry more debt than ever before. That, to me, is being a slave to material things (and in reality: the banks).

my grandmother left her life in scotland in 1920 at the age of 13. she boarded a boat bound for america by herself to start a life in america and chase "the american dream" - the opportunity for a better life.

poverty was one of the main reasons many people in scotland came to america. there was no hope in many parts of scotland and ireland.

Over one third of the population of scotland left during the highland clearances of the 18th century. Scotland saw an increase in population, mainly due to immigrant workers, in the post war period.

To say there was no hope in scotland of the time shows your complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

talk to your relatives about how much hope they had during the great war.  ::)

And how many 100 year old scottish people have you spoken to? Don't tell me about my country's history.

i forked over my 4 grand with a money order.... Fuck I don't even own a credit card..

obviously, you do not have a very good understanding of the situation in scotland during and after the great war. you should read up on it....unbelievable shit.

as much as there was a recession after the first world war, the unemployment rate was only still about 10-12% the first half of the 1920's in Scotland, not exactly disastrous...if you had said the 1930's it would have been different

so you think all those jobs were paying enough to keep people out of poverty. statistics can be misleading. come on, you know that.

it also depends on where you lived at the time

since Glasgow was still the greatest shipbuilding city in the world in the 1920's, and was a leader in coal, steel and other constructive industries at that time and there were more railway lines than there are today, unemployment was lower in Glasgow than the whole of Scotland...if you were in Aberdeen or the Highlands then yea it would have been far harder to live but that was a result of war...tell me something, how i can have respect for people who moved away from the effects of 4 years of war? and i mean from any European country, not just the UK...the American Dream is more about greed than anything else..in fact its just another bullshit phrase

I disagree.  I think many countries back then were set up in somewhat of a cast system where it was impossible to achieve anything you wanted and create a better life for your children.  America offered the opportunity to break that system and create a better life for your children.  Certainly today there are many countries like this, however, I still see the american dream everyday.  There are so many Mexicans and Asians that come over here, their parents work in a mini-mart, pick vegtables etc, then their kids end up going to stanford or Berekely and become doctors, lawyers, politicians.  There is not too many places that can still happen.  Look at that commencement speech I posted a few days ago.  The creator of apple was someone that was adopted by parents who never went to college and he himself dropped out of school.  For the most part, if you work hard here you can make it.  Of course, capitalism isnt for everyone I guess.

That's a great observation.  The Dream essentially counts on some people being lazy, dumb, and not willing to work to get ahead in life.  I wonder what would happen if everyone tried to be a self-made man or woman.



Yes, I do hold it in high regard.  In fact, it is one of the ways in which I distinguish America from the rigid 'Old World'.  I realize it is a naive assumption to truly believe in it, but I have worked hard to achieve my professional goals, and so far the Dream has worked for me.   Does that mean it could work for everyone?  I'm hesitant to give an answer.


As SLC said, the American Dream that is sold to you on tv is about buying, consuming, owning, and to do it with 0% APR, no money down, pay next year!   That's how the dream would be defined in the Devil's Dictionary.  But you dont have to believe in that version. 

At the other end of the spectrum is the American Dream presented in the classic movie 'Mr Smith Goes to Washington' with Jimmy Stewart setting the example for all of us.  His version of the dream has nothing to do with being materialistic, and is exactly about battling the greed and corruption that prevents other folks from achieving their aspirations.  Of course, buying into his Tinseltown version requires you to let go of all your cynicism, and I cant do that.

You are such a hypocrite. You post that speech, yet turn around and insult people who also did not finish college.

I agree that hard work, street smarts, and discipline can make you a success in this country. Many people don't want to do the work and find it below them to do certain things. That is why immigrants do so well here. They appreciate any job they can get their hands on and will work two jobs 7 days a week and not spend one dime on crap. They often pay in cash and value money much more than people who were born and raised here.

My uncle worked his ass off for 10 yrs before he took his first vacation. He started from nothing, and built a business worth millions which he sold off eventually. He "made it" by most people's standards. The biggest thing I saw with him, was that he was willing to get down and dirty and work, while others chose not to. His life was not easy for years, and eventually it paid off. He only took a class in trade school, then took a basic business class in college, then went out and worked his ass off.

explain? caste system? divisions in society? like black and white? rich and poor,east and west, french and english, american indian and whiteman...no caste system in the USA?...how many successful Native Americans do you know of? how may people live in poverty with no chance of leaving it?...white man no get job, black man for job, white man more talented but company must meet quota...break the system? it certainly has

I'll predict a "They need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps" type of answer.

No caste system here sir........... ::)