Here Today... Gone To Hell!

im not stating anything new, just bored.

Buckethead, IMO, left b/c he CAN make money and have a real career w/o Axl's help and the name GnR


Robin, Fortus, Dizzy etc., IMO, cannot leave (even though they'd probably LOVE to tell Axl to go fuck himself) b/c they'd have ZERO career options (trent doesn't want robin anymore). im sure the idea of playing shitty clubs around the world doesn't sound so great to the rest of them, so they're just waiting n waiting, hoping Axl releases HIS album so they can tour the world and make the $ that will set up the rest of their lives (cuz we all know there wont be another album, another 15 yrs to make a 2nd CD wouldn't happen)

I jus think bh left because he was growing impatient, he might have been able to see that nothing was happening, they did shows from 2000-2002 and he saw it was 2003 and the album or something beside maybe rio was in sight,, I think he may have also had a bef with axl in redoing parts being he is such a talented player ,and having to share guitar duties with two other guys.... I think they would have been better off making bh lead and let one of the others be rythm... You know you don't get a guy like dimebag or joe pery and make them second...

I don't think the money is the main thing.. I am sure they all could get with some band and make a decent living, just not a gnr hyped money.. I do beliveif this was some lesser project without a big established following these guys would have all left by now.. They have spent to much time waiting and creating to just fuck themselves over..

Robin could have left to join NIN but he said no. Also Robin wrote much more on the new album than BH did thus Robin wants to see this through.

for all we know (which we don't know much) Buckethead left because he thought he was done recording...
and Axl thought not.

if that were the case, and we have reason to believe there was a lot of recording - changing - scrapping - re-recording going on - then it would seem that those who remained through that were 'okay' with that process.

He did? Did he or someone say this in an interview? Since we don't have the album how do you know who wrote how much on it?

Well Robin's left once already. So it was BH's go? :P

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=99bb17df14604ff2969ea4fe844b7821&topic=20120.0

Need to distinguish imagination from fact.

Buckethead left 'cause he couldnt hack it!!

All the others know how to rock!!! : ok:

yeah that's why.. Please when in gnr there's nothing to hack, it's an endless vacation.. he could play side gigs or his own work and still be in the band

No. Dave just thinks he knows it all.  ::)

To speculate that Robin "wrote more" then Buckethead on an album we havent even heard yet is just dumb.  >:(

but he didnt!!

I think Buckethead seen something in the absurdity of the CD situation, so he left. It will be interesting to see if he issues a press release once the gag order expires.

I dont think he will. Herbie might say something , but even that would surprise me. I think Buckethead will totally wash his hands of the GNR experience if something dramatic doesnt happen that brings him back to the band. Maybe Brain might say something about or even the other GNR members once they are out doing press for the album. I'm pretty sure they will be asked about Bucket and what happened.

Saul, I'm not much interested in what these other "hired guns" have to say. They always say the same thing. All they're good for is to hype an album no one has heard. Someone made a good point that Buckethead could have kept doing side projects while still in the band, but he left anyway. That is amazing. There is definitely a reason for his departure that no one has heard yet. And Tommy saying 'good riddance' and he never liked him doesn't cut the mustard. Neither does Axl's statement about 'taking it to the next level'. When you've been working on an album for years, have one of the most innovative guitarists of our generation in your band, how is his departure gonna take it to the next level? The explanations for his departure are absurd.

Buckethead left because he's mad.

Robin won't leave because he's awesome.

Considering robin has been with Axl, tommy, and dizzy from the beginning of this new gnr, one would think Robin wrote most of the guitar parts on CD, more than BH. Its called common sense.  Also, from hearing and watching the  band play the new songs, Robin played much more than BH did, yet again common sense would say robin wrote more than BH.

These 'side projects' actually require a substantial commitment of time and energy. Bucket may have felt that his choice of project as well as his friendships were being compromised by effectively remaining on call for Axl. Last summer, Bucket toured with Giant Robot across the US, finished a studio album with Les Claypool and went on a four month tour. I doubt he could have committed to C2B3 if there was a chance Axl could recall him at any time. Bucket split because he reached a point where he could not shelve larger projects with his mates without any promise of when a return to GnR would occur.  I think there were also issues with some parts that needed to be redone; Axl's statement indicated that Bucket was needed back to do some parts but had not committed the time to do them. Maybe there was a miscommunication and/or disagreement with what completion meant.

I hope there is a chance that Bucket comes back when this is close. He deserves to stand up with Axl and the guys and take credit for his work.

That's what I was saying.  For the amount of material Buckthead puts out... he works quickly.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with how he works - he's an amazing guitarist - what I'm thinking is that he does something and then well... considers it done and doesn't look to re-do stuff (all speculation, again based on the sheer amount of material he puts out).  I really do think that the just figured he was done and that he shouldn't have been called to re-do anything... and yes, that he should be 'free' to pursue other committments -- although I do recall management's comment that he still was 'under contract' when his departure was announced by his management.  But I figure he calculated the 'cost' of breaking that contract and found it to be worth his 'freedom'.    (ps:  I'm don't mean cost in a purely monetary sense)

Vecor, I see what you're sayin, and I hope you're right. I hope he comes back too. But I seriously doubt it. Him leaving was extremely bad news for CD. I've always thought there was some other reason for him leaving, possibly very little progress in the making of CD. If there was alot of real songs already completed, or if there was a possible album release in the future, I dont think he would have left. And the way Axl makes people sign those gag orders is VERY strange. It makes no sense. Info used to leak about Illusions before they were released, and it didnt take away the mystery of the albums. I find it strange that not one credible person has said anything about these songs. Is it possible Axl is still just sitting on a bunch of instrumentals? Buckethead would have left only for a damn good reason. If there was "earth shattering" material, he wouldn't have flown the "coop".

BH was the ace in Axl's new deck of cards. Without him the band's much much weaker. Noone will take GN'R seriously with the remaining two guitarists.  :no:

I think the exact opposite.

I feel the same way... Bucketman was sth new. A persona in both music style and image.
It was sth new for the public... And of course he was the exact opposite of slash but at the same time
a really unique player on his own right.

Robin Solos remind me of slash and unfortunately from the live songs i heard Slash did the bluesy lead solos with more charisma and personality.

I really hope bucketman will be back for touring purposes when cd will be out.

Even without BH gnr still have better talent at guitar than 90% of the bands out there.? And it has been said that BHs parts are staying on the album, so that is all that matters. Its does not matter that BH isnt there to play live with them, if he is on the album that is what people are going to hear and judge this band on, not if BH is there live or not.

exactly dude, this also shows the damn album wasn't even close to being done when march 2003 you are going to take a 5 year project to another level when you have an amazing different type of guitar player.. We don't know the story and the idea that no one seemed broken up by his leaving shows there was anger among them


But you can't say he couldn't hack it because there was nothinng to hack.. We don't know why he left, could have been a now or never attitude.. he might have joined because he knew something was suppose to happen sooner.. You don't know what axl might have promised him by saying join it will be worth it, we'll tour for years you'll have this or that.. That tune could have changed.. You think a guy like zakk wylde would have stayed around waiting for that many years..?/ SOme people are perfectly happy to join but have no intensions of redoing parts or starting years after they were supposed to.. No one joins a band in 97-98 2000 only to not be playing 5-8 years later..

I disagree with your first sentence, and since GN'R is (was?) a guitar band, it's really important to have quality players. And when i say quality players, I mean that this band must have a lead guitarist of the world-class cathegory. Now it doesn't. Unfortunately.

I really like the idea of BH'S parts staying on the album. But it ain't sure since Axl can change his mind every day... and on the other hand: a lot of people will criticize Axl for rleasing an album with long-time gone musicians (I think if BH's parts stay than we can hear some Tobias and Freese stuff there, too). And to tell the truth, this critic'd be legit: if you spend 10+ years workin' on an album then you should be able to release 20-30 songs with your current line-up.

3. If the band tours (which I really doubt even if there is an album), then who will play BH's solos? Chris Pittman from his keyboard? Or Robin Finck on his way?  :nervous:

They need someone else. Finck and Fortus aren't enough.

all that matters is that the music on the album is better live... Most bands out there give a way better live performance then their studio albums because you can add to the song extend a solo or whatever.. Now fi you get an album with speed playing from bh then I would expect to hear the same thing live..

I mean I have seen metallica a few times years ago and I thought their first albums kill em all, ride the lightning, master of puppets, and justice for all, then black were awesome studio albums adn they topped them live.. COuld they do this happen with finck n fortus alone?? There had to be some reason for a third player

Robin has been with GNr since the start of this resurrection. He has invested yrs of his time into this. Althopugh many of you fail to realize this but Robin actually is part of this project and whole scheme. As is Tommy. They have been here since day 1 of the new band.

As for Bucket...it sux. I wish he never left. He is an amzing player and performer and gave the band a cool image. He eliminated the whole Slash thing because instead of talking about Slash, the haters would talk about how much of a freak he is. And in the long run thats good becuase then Bucket might blow them away with the music. ?

I just hope Axl leaves most of Buckets parts on the album.
And I hope once the ball gets rolling Axl and Brain make a few phone calls and Bucket see the big ball coming down the hill and he decides to come back in before he gets run over by the monstrosity

Robin and Richard might be insufficient to cover for BH but so are BH and Richard to cover for Robin.

Well, when the departure of one of the most proficient guitarists of our generation could surprisingly mean the opportunity to take their recording that one extra step further for the remainder, then I guess that was simply meant to allow them to take it.

Heaven knows chicken or egg. 

Thus is why I always said they need a shredder and need a 3rd guitiarst. People love to claim they dont need a 3rd one but they do for BHs part.

GNR (minus Axl) could all go off and form their own band if they wanted. They're all talented enough, they don't HAVE to have Axl. Bucket left because he wants to be a solo artist. He wasn't used to someone of Axl's stature sharing the limelight...

yeah these guys all could get their own work no doubt about it ehy all have talent from what I hear and from their past resume but with all the time vested into this project (especially tommy n robin) it would be a complete waste to leave this late... Wha tthey could build up in the next 5 years could happen in a flash if axl ever gets his act together.. i'd wait too, gnr is a permanet vacation adn absolute freedom to do whatever.. Axl is in a rock and hard place, he has to let them roam free or he might lose them then have all these guys on his album who are no longer associated with the gnr name.. Bucket probably didn't want to wait or he was tired of sharing lead with less calibur players.. Who knows why but the idea this band was 8 guys something needed to happen sooner

Buckethead didn't leave because of "sharing the limelight" issues. I'm sure it was something much more serious than that.

who cares, we have Robin : ok:

bh left cause he's a dickhead and the others stay cause they want to be part of the greatest album of all time.

fuck it...it ain't comin' out

brilliant and so insightful! now we know the answer!  : ok:

I think it was more balls then him being a dick.. he wasn't happy so instead of being one of axl's lap dogs he just said fuck this take your shit shove it up your ass and I'm out to go where things happen..  No one knows what axl promised him or why he left but this wait can't help anything.. The band had three guitar players who knows how much bh did or didn't..?

i think ya gotta remember that he didn't LEAVE as much as he actually refused to return

i really think he just did not want to go back and re-record something/anything...

Robin, on the other hand has apparently come back into the studio xxx amount of times when asked

Buckethead was free - as all the other guys apparently are - to pursue solo work

and I don't think it was a case of him being impatient about getting on with the 'Guns thing'...
I think he was just used to doing his thing, his way - and not having to answer to someone else as far as being told he had to come and re-record something cuz someone thought a note was off/wrong.

This doesn't make him a dick.... although if he made a promise (via contractual agreement) to be bound to x, y, or z terms and then found he didn't actually want to go through with it / live up to it / be told he had to do x, y, or z... then anyone can certainly feel dissapointed with that decision.

But hey, if the guy didn't want to be there in the capacity which he was requested to be...
who wants to force a guy to perform?   If his heart was no longer in it - then it wasn't going to work - contract or no contract.

We're not talking about a contract to produce 'widgets'....
we're talking about someone's personal artistic creation that they may not have been willing to compromise.

Thats a whole lot of speculation.

Like all of our posts I guess.  :-\

not too much of it is speculation though...

i really do think that Buckethead did not come back to GN'R because he just didn't like the way Axl/GN'R operated...

the recording process taking too long...
the bad touring experience with the 2 riot shows...
and the Detroit incident...

and to that i specifically speculate that he he did not want to record/re-record anymore for CD

'tis a shame though...

GN'R has had such bad luck

but so long as Axl hasn't given up...

(nor Dizzy, Tommy, Robin or Richard)  :love: 

then I believe they will overcome all to succeed  : ok:

Can YOU imagine being in a working relationship with Axl?

I think the reason Buckethead left is quite possibly more personal than everyone thinks.
Being in a band really is like being in a marriage.
If it's not fun, then what's the point?

And as for Buckethead's parts.
If he's not in the band, his stuff shouldn't be on the CD in my mind.
They won't be able to recreate it live, so why bother?

The new Guns N' Roses is already viewed as Axl & Friends.
Chinese Democracy shouldn't be Axl & Friends + Every other musician on earth.

The band should show what THEY can do.
If they're a proper band, they'll prove that they're a functioning unit. Not just a bunch of guys with outside musicians on every second track (Brian May, Dave Navarro, Josh Freese, Buckethead, Moby, Shaq? ha ha ha...)

How will the album have any kind of cohesive feeling if there are different musicians on each track?

And whoever said that Buckethead gave the band credibility........
I think you should ask people outside this board about that. Most people who saw the VMA's were like "Why the fuck does that guy have a KFC bucket and a mask on?"

I love Buckethead as a musician.
As a member of Guns N' Roses... No.

Everything that has been stated is mere conjecture. We know nothing about what happened and what  is happening. And that is exactly the problem with the new GNR.

Enough time has passed for bucket's parts to be stripped. I actually expect it.

not that i think any professional band/bandmember expects it to be all fun...
i know what you mean... when you hear comments like we've heard from other band members...
sure there is the distinct possiblity that there wasn't the kind of personal connection that's needed to keep a band/bandmember going with/in a band


and as much as i enjoyed his performance with GN'R and think he's an amazing guitarists and would LOVE to hear what he contributed...
I also, am of the mind/heart ?that there are enough ghosts on stage with GN'R when they play matrial from the old lineup... ? playing BH material without BH being in the band is just adding another ?:(

okay... if they kept a few pieces ... but leads in every song? ?it'd be like starting out from the gate with something missing

i tend to think so also.
richard's recent comments that he and robin "switch off leads and rythm"...
"switch" being present tense...
(or present-perfect tense even - it's been a long time since hs grammer  ;D)
strongly implies that the frame of reference is the performance on CD

like when we refer to a cd we say "so and so plays this"
even though it was recorded in the past...
we refer to the parts being played in the present-tense not the past-tense

I dont see how BHs parts can be stripped if he didnt help write some of those parts. Plus I am sure other people like Brian May will appear on the album but he is not on the band. Only time will tell. Id still love to hear BHs parts on the album but like Dizzy said they have 3 versions of most of the songs, so I guess they could alread have versions without BH

if they do say wouldn't you like to hear them duplicated live?? If you get a speed guy like him you need another guy like him to play with the same intesnity..

The time will tell.

If not, the timing is telling. IMO. :D

Why is it difficult to believe that the parts have been stripped off? Axl has done it before.

Its difficult to believe because Bucket is one of the most original guitarists of our generation, and he spent alot of time on the project. He had alot to offer the band. Even if he's gone from GNR forever, I would like to see what he contributed to CD. If CD comes out without Buckethead's parts, people will always wonder how great it would've been had his parts stayed on.

I agree with every word of that!  : ok:

Axl likes him a lot doesn't he? Otherwise he wouldn't have taken him to Disneyland.
(I totally understand. I'd love to go to the Disney with Bucket...)


I say it again. The timing is telling.
As I see it, Bucket simply wanted GN'R to tour after the new release got fixed so he made a sacrifice of himself.

Why is it difficult to imagine? Robin has done it before.

At different points in this process Robin's parts were stripped, as were Josh Freeze. They are both very talented musicians who invested their time and energies in the project.

Personally for a band like this to release an album of material without  players who recorded it currently in the band is a bit sketchy. It would actually lead credence to the Axl Rose Project moniker that many have attached to it.

Well n ext time someone interviews Robin or Richard ask them if the redid BHs parts. You would think splat would be smart enough to ask that question.

I don't think they aspire to ask the obvious 'what is up with gnr' type questions. They mainly inquire about their solo plans and ask some silly tidbits. As many have claimed, the band's knowledge of the album is very dubious.

somebody needs to get the studio guy , caram , carem? ,, I foget his name , one of the "three" people merck named as knowing whats going .. anyways , someone needs to get him in a club and get him drunk , really drunk .. and get answers.

haha

I read that sodium amatol works alot better than whiskey.

Stripped or not, they'd still keep all the recordings somewhere.

It's totally off topic and useless, but
Are you sure Merck actually NAMED anyone?