Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Would you consider it selling out or copying gnr?? Being they left gnr are they allowed to compose such a song without getting bashed? I have no idea if it will ever happen, I ask since the first snakepit had dizzy on it and keyboards were definetly used other times.. It doesn't have to be a 8-9 minute song just the elements of instruments that they themselves don't normaly play..

They are doing an orchestra type song.
They are doing an acoustic version of You Got No Right with a string section for they're next single

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

GNR was one of the first to do that with November Rain. Many have done it since then. I don`t think it would be selling out for VR. However, I think it would be uncharacteristic since VR touts itself as a pure rock band.

orchestra just doesnt go with rock imo. The metallica album s&m is just lame.

well just look at dream on, home sweet home, or bed of roses they all happened before NR just not as extravegant.. I think axl once said home sweet home influenced the piano in NR or the type of song he wanted to do..?

I read it on the VR board, I think it's true. We'll have to wait and see

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

I think if VR did anything with an orchestra, it would be open season on VR that they are coping GNR.

yeah kind of sucks.. I think a big song or orchestra can be cool , just not in that direction with a lot of tunes...
A november rain or estranged size and type song is good in doses for me.. it's a very nice novelty for a change,,

I think people here would say that crap. I personally think it would be retarded to say they were copying Gn'R though.. Countless rock bands have used strings and orchestras and November Rain was far from the first.

Well we all know that, it's just you would hear well matt was like what;'s with the piano, they weren't big fans of the big ballads or soemthing like that.. I think a rare track once in a while is cool, just don't become a different band

Exactly, It's one thing for recording, but I doubt you will see them tour with all that shit... A one off live performance could be cool.

Because VR have big mouths they have kinda pigeonholed their material into 1 kind of sound..."sleazy, dangerous, in your face " rock....thats all they talked about.

Plus if a piano and other stuff was brought in Mr cool behind drums might quit...because Im not so sure he signed up for that kind of stuff....

but lets be honest...some of Slash's greatest moments have come from those epic type songs....and look at his new band vr...the song that I feel Slash is Slash and the band actually kicks ass on is YGNR.

And if VR stick around for awhile, do you really want multiple album sof the same stuff? Look at this soundtrack song. SLither fucked an STP song and out came Come On, Come in or whatever the thing is called.

Not to make this another 1 of those threads but look at GNR...Old and I am assuming new as well....They have material that pleases everyone. Ypu cant corner them into a specific sound. They branch off and delve into all kinds of things. And if you didnt like that direction or sound they said fuck you! As long as you stay true to ur roots along the process I think every band should do that....otherwise you become.....boring

a real "dangerous" band is a band that talks with their music and does any type of music they please and not give a fuck

Like he didn't belive he was signing up for the afd gnr he and everyone knew not what axl was headed for?

That is true there's no doubting that, but he was awesome on alot of the hard rockers too, there are some gnr songs I only like the guitar parts..


as far as forums -vr-gnr- go they have done that but the world doesn't care about these things.. Not everyone follows vr's every spoken word or interview like they were the gospel...
and change isn't always good when it goes towards riyad, silkworms and oh my god..

Vr's the type of band that will drop an album then tour a year or so, new gnr is the type that willl work on an album forever and never tour..


there is no doubt that everything in gnr has something for everyone... They also have the baddest group on the planet having your mom and grandmother enjoying songs... I am never buying the fact that from afd they couldn't have done songs similar to that album without the illusions and still be huge.. YCBM was a big hit, just a song like NR brings in the chicks because it's a big ballad.. bands like ac/dc lasted the duration and then some of gnr as did maiden as did old metallica whos' first 4 albums were all hardcore... Vr needs to step it up a noch and stp songs defiently have some diference in them.. I can take a few LTA or ygnr type songs over taking the songs to another direction... Look how big estranged was, how grand how big the video was, how amazing the guitar playing was... It was seen as bloated overdone ending of the power ballads done back then that is why it failed and get's moched today...

You would have to ask him on that....I was just mocking him...Hel'' do anything he just has a big mouth as well...

Yep, but atleast he gave you a bevy of sounds and styles

how come you dont use that theory on the other side of town?

but its not the point....im talking about vr and their fans...they would be selling out

Vr is the type of band that will drop an album and it will rock, Gnr is the type of band that will drop an album and rock the world....GNR turn heads.,..vr puts heads to sleep...

your missing the point. Of course they could have done that but they didnt want to or have to. They didnt care about being huge. They cared about making music they wanted to make. Whether it was Its So easy 2 SIDHY...they did whatever the fuk they wanted. And thats why tehy were great. And if you didnt like it they gave u a big fuck u....


ACDC was great for what they did...but they never branched off into the mainstream..

and look at mettalica today. Where the fuck have they gone?

again your missing the point. Plus your worried about what every1 else is saying. The video was bloated and the mainstream didt like Estranged. But does it stop GNr from being on the top of any countdown list in terms of greatness? hell fukin no...you know why?

because those same peopel who hate estranged or are too cool for it or simply doesnt mean anything to them have other gnr songs that fuk them up and can relate too...thats the greatness and my point...

and in the PROCESS the people who do like Estranged have lyrics and music to that song that will last a fukin lifetime. But if GNr never had any balls or only care about what peopel said they would never even have that

back in black is only the 5th selling album ever so they were mainstream, they have about 8 or so songs on rotation with rock stations daily..

? I know I say well axl probably changed his mind or something then people use his quotes for every little detail involving cd. The 18 tracks the b sides 2-3 albums or whatever else, the live your life quote and eevrything else.. You'd have to be more specific.. With vr I never viewed them as some dangerous band, the only danger is they are all drugs user adn you can fall off the wagon which would destroy the band and scott has fallen many times.. That is what is dangerous about them.. They were hyping themselves.. That'slike when tommy says the tracks are great or something is he going to sayd they are so so ,or they are average?? Of course not he wants to say it's all great..

maybe old gnr, no one is speaking about the first single in nearly 6 years with oh my god, if that was zepllin's first song in 6 years people would be talking about it.. Maddy all be it a medley or piece of the tune it looped mtv and saw by millions yet that is never talked about just how axl looks weird or was out of breath.. When great bands everyone loves plays a new tune it should be talked about even if it was a clip.. Another thing kurt loder could have asked about being a gnr fan was the song..


they have gotten bad, not every group has what it takes to always make great music,... Not many have a 20 year or so career of great msuic.. St anger did suck but their fans still bought over a half milion copies the first week.. Anyways the point was big time rock songs they had from 81 to 91 are always played on the radio and much more then gnr's music on rotation.. They had 5 hit albums in succession before they fell off, gnr n metallica were neck n neck in 91-92.. Gnr's album sales decline each year from afd, while metallica's grew each year till the black album..

Was gnr diverse, did I love gnr, do I still love gnr and listen to their music often.. yes, yes,yes,? and yes..

lets not act like part of the gnr head turning now will be ebcause of the use of the gnr name.. This album could sell 2 million quick without any videos..

Well he drummed on the album and finished that work BEFORE he joined the band.  Slash asked him to join at a barbecue at his house.  If he didn't want to he could have said no.

i was referring to when you always say well the public doesnt know all the details like the fans do when it concerns vr...yet for some reason i dont see you saying that when discussing things with gnr

just liek no1 is speaking about "Set Me Free" with VR. Their debut track. Both songs were for soundtracks. VRs big opening song to introduces themselves and thier band was "Slither"...we have yet to hear GNRs opening single that is meant to make or break them.
and IF its better than the songs we have heard...pleople will be talking baout the song 6yrs down the road.

thats because those songs are more radio friendly then gnrs songs. Plus throw in the fact krock in ny never played gnr up until they got smart and changed their format from just modern and cool stuff to all out rock....because of that chjange they now have a full time listener. and q1043 wont play the harder gnr material because they are more of a classic slow rock type station.

Like I have said a zillion times...no shit the album will sell on the name alone the first week or 2. Every1 wants to hear what Axl has come up with. The question is how does it do after that period. The music will do the talking and carrying not the name. If the album is a bunch of silk worms it wont sell down the road case closed. But if the album has some gems on it, it will sell. its not rocket science

Vr were only able to squeeze 3 singles out of CB. For an album that everyone was saying has "audioslave legs all over it" sure didnt bring the punch to the public. Im guessing FTP didnt cross over like Scom and bring in a new fan base?

Are you asking because they're supposed to record a version of "You Got No Right" with a string section?





/jarmo

VR (or rather, RCA, since they made the decision) ended contraband's run when they decided to pick dirty little thing over suckertrain blues for the third single. DLT is an alright song, but nothing special as a single. suckertrain blues wouldve been much better. IMO, superhuman wouldve been the best choice. YGNR also should have been a single. so that's 5 singles they couldve had. Instead the record label forced them to put out dirty little thing, which received no reaction and got nowhere.

fall to pieces and slither however did do well. i still go to bars in nyc and here those songs blasting out of the speakers. they rock.

also, in reading your points, i notice that you really alternate your points between saying "mainstream doesn't matter" versus something like "ac/dc was never mainstream".

you also mention "selling out".

imo, these points are irrelevant. all you need to ask yourself is this: is the music good?

ac/dc has had great music, even if it's all the same. other bands, such as gnr, were more diverse but also good. who cares about what image the band projects. as long as they make music i enjoy, i'm happy with them.

the key point is they actually make new music. i was struck by this comment on old gnr: "and in the PROCESS the people who do like Estranged have lyrics and music to that song that will last a fukin lifetime. But if GNr never had any balls or only care about what peopel said they would never even have that." frankly, as i see it now, that statement can be applied in the reverse to the current-gnr. axl needs to grow balls and not worry about other people and release his damn album so that, regardless of whether it is a big hit or not, at least the music is out there so that people who like it have something to enjoy. as of now, we just have a couple crappy bootlegs that, imo, are average at best.

I always say things like that.. When do I not say that stuff.. I say the public doesn't know the band I say the public never heard of cd and so on.. I say the public only knows the vmas and everyone thought it was a joke or slash behind the mask and what happened to axl.. The fans know what vh1 plays other then that they have no clue about axl..


velvet revolver was not some huge band that ruled 87-93 they were new with some known people.. Are you really going to compare that to the return of GUNS N ROSES the biggest band in the world a few years ago... Vr's debut track is nothing compared to ione of the biggest frontmen and gnr's return.. The commercials for the soundtrack was like new music from GNR.. To me that's news worthy and soemthing to get pumped about.. I don't know how you can't see the difference,.. people say gnr is one of the biggest bands ever, wouldn't any song after 6 years be something long awaited being your fan base is already huge,??  Either way they were both soundtrack songs..

All I said was metallica did a lot with a similar format each time around, that was the point on how they stayed similar and kept doing better..


Only 3 single, how many singles do most bands get out of a record, never mind a debut?? FTP's isn't scom, there is no other scom that song was just amazing, very few songs could make an album go to one a year later.... I've been to vr shows so I know their fan base isn't just us old timers who were either fans of stp-gnr.. VR is to old to be super popular mainstream band, it's just the way iot is.. I never expected anything more then a little bigger then snakepit, so for me nearly 2 million sold in america and two of the three singles doing good on the modern rock chart and mainstream rock chart is all good.. Not many can headline their first tour so it has been a success to me..



well I know it was more forum talk... If the album does good right away people will be like told you it was better... No one will just say hey it sold quick because it was gnr not because of what was on the album.. No way it will have all silkworms on therre it's only had since 1997 to work on it, I expect nothing but great music..

I didn't even know it then someone said they were... Scott being a little different I never knew what he might want.. I did want to see what people thought though... I heard ygnr was suppose to be a fourth single but never knew about the orchestra until after,,

Exactly man, he is trying to make some ultimate album redoing music letting his mates ramble on about idiocy clueless to the siuation he lost a great player in BH all because he's streering the ship and has ultimate control.. Nobody introduces a band in 1999 a song then plays here n there from 2000-2002 only to let the guys in his band down by going away again...  they saw light and he covered the hole.. Gnr was ballsy years back, the afd era was the proof...

Im surprised the record label just doesnt go out on stage and perform as well. I mean anything that VR doesnt do or happens is put on the label. How bout this veteran dangerous band grow some balls and tell the record label what they want to do.

Im not trying to downplay what ACDC did. All I said was they werent as big as GNr because they didnt branch off of what they did. Thats not a bad thing at all. But being GNr delved into different things they were able to capture a bigger audience....

and I agree...is the music good...thats what it comes down too..

no it cant because we dont know the facts about whats taking so long. DO you know that Axl is holding cd back because hes affraid of what people might say? It could be true but it also might not be. What if he just doesnt want to release anything until hes "mentally" and maybe even physically ready to be out there in the spotlight...who knows...

Velvet Revolver had 3 members from that same band and a lead singer who has been at the top as well. What ?is there not to know? Did the public know who even played on OMG when it was released no less who was in gnr besides Axl and Dizzy?

Vr has alose done TONS ?more promotion then gnr has done

Of course it was anticipated but who said it was GNRS big comeback. Go read the OMG press release. It was for the movie because thats what it was for. Of course Axl had hopes of it being successful but he didnt bank GNRs comeback on that single. The godam album wasnt even completed in 99 so what were they gonna have a comeback with.use your head.

All im saying is you cant judge gnrs comeback until we hear that first single and album. If it fails...no excuses or ifs and or buts. That will be the comeback song. That single.

some1 contact steven adler because sorum might quit

Because when VR were at the top of the charts and being praised by the people on this board when the going was good all we heard about was how they are as good as Audioslave, and other popular bands and how they were gonna break through and real rock is back. Now that the hype and promo has died down no1 cares about VR as much.

read what you just wrote and digest it. let it process. your answers are all there.

also go back and listen to the Axl/loder interview after the vmas....

how many times do you people have to be told this.

Just because Axl released a soundtrack song and did a tour doesnt mean the album was ready or the new era of gnr music was going to be presented.

Axl is taking his time with this. In the process he released a song and went on tour and played the old songs for 1 last time basically. The next time you see gnr will be for the new stuff. when that will be..who knows....but this idea that hes already tried to make a comeback is wrong imo.

You cant judge Axl and the new era of gnr until we get that first single from the album and then the album itself. Till then ...well....

as for the ballsy stuff...of course afd era was ballz. no1 is disputing that and no1 is proclaiming gnr today is about that. Do you hear Axl or any of the members proclaiming to be dangerous. In case you havnt noticed there have grown up and are wrapped up in making music that is meaningful to them and their lifestyles as it is today. Of course Axl could go back and write about sex and drugs. But thats not him today. Nor is he trying to pass that image of himself and his band off liek that.

Imo whats ballsy is his attitude of doings then when he wants to. Yea we as fans suffer for that but the guy is doing what he wants to do. The reward hopefully will be a brilliant album. If he was like his former mates he would have released 3 albums by now because of record company pressures. Thats not to say VR didnt want to release an album because they did. Point is they have 2 different goals in their careers.

Their album ran it's course.. when they were in the public view it sold well, later when they strictly ?toured and didn't really support their last single it died down big time,.. It happens to every band.. ?I still don't understand the killers on about a year in the top 15.. :o
I hear the new audislave single all thet ime, it's a regular song nothing spectacular it just gets alot of airtime.. Vr was getting the 4am spot on vh1 with dlt along with MC's if I die tomorrow... The thing is we love who we love we like teh songs we like.. I like vr better then audioslave... Sales dying down doesn't make them less then audiolave..

what they knew was it was a guns n roses song so people could almost guess who was on the album, do you think people follow who's in the band like us.. If someone says mike I have metallica tickets I kind of ?metallica.. For all people knew the band was one again, who knows.. Look how good greatest hits did and has done souly on the gnr name..?



yeah I mean who does a song for a soundtrack, then starts touring and calls it the chinese democracy world tour with no intensions of giving you an album.. yeah he said will we see it soon, you'll see it but I don't know if soon is the word..  he said that in aug of 2002, the tour didn't start until november 2002, it wasn't going to end until 2003, then he said they would tour on and off for 2-3 years like the illusions then talked about dropping albums .. So not soon could have meant six months from now it didn't have to mean several years away... You belive what you want ant, I belive what I do..  There's no reason to start something up for a few years slowly getting back in to only shut it down for a bunch of years.. Fine he can take his time with teh album that's his thing just don't talk about cd for the past 6 years and do a cd 2002 world tour close the vmas for nothing.. There's no logic to it but to get the already existing forum members excited for new music that we would have been excited for anyways..

god points but lets be serious axl wouldn't have that cash cow supplying his album without the gnr enterprise that ensures good sales.. it's like a somewhat sure bet, just sanctuary couldn't dump him because they would only lose money and pray for them to win it back in a lawsuit.. if this was just some side alx project he wouldn't have those funds to be endless with his album, he wouldn't have these patient artists waiting for him to come around he would have to do some promotion to get him out there,  and he wouldn't be closing the vmas with no album... The man is very talented the man is one of the best frontmen and my favorite singer ever, but he wouldn't have that iron fist and the ability to do waht he wants without the gnr name..

I am not trying to rush his work, I just like to hear albums and see people tour, to me that is everything in music, not to mention I would like to see axl perform while he' still young.. it's not like he was around forever then took a few years off to do this.. I hope it's done and coming out..

very good point, and probably very true.

it explains why vr has had to do things differently (and has often had to listen to their label a lot more too). vr also probably got a very sweet $$ deal from RCA, but had to cede some power to the label to get it (just an opinion, i have no facts to back that up).

well if your on tour arent you really supporting the album?
all im saying is that after the initial hype it recieved from its 2 singles{which had public appeal} and its heavy promotion and tourning vr did great. Same with gnr. my test for new gnr will be how lkong will the material carry the album.


he said well go back and do some MORE recording then start the american leg of the tour. He didnt say he'll finish the recording.

my guess is that they would do some recording before the tour, tour NA, which i believe would have ended in January, go back and finish the rest of the album and debut it at Rio and launch the world tour of Chinese Democracy.
But 2 things happened in that process....The tour eneded and Bucket quit. Hence the delays....

why not. Maybe Axl new all along that he wasnt going to release the rcord anytime soon so instead of staying completely in the hills he came out and did a few things along the way.

just tell me something YG why say you have cd in 1999, why not wait unbtil it is done..? yes more recording, that  doesn't mean there was no way to finish it.. I seriously doubt rio 4 was going to be anything, why would BH wait until the album was finally going to come out and new gnr was going to tour to quit? Either way it is meaningless there's no album and no word..

I saw AudioSlave the other night on Leno or something and they sucked.  They are an awful live band.  They are the type of band that you will like less after seeing live, but there music rocks.  Where as VR may not have the best music always, but they are a very visual band and put on a much better show.  Chris Cornell isn't a good frontman.  I am so happy we have Scott over Cornell.  I don't think he can sing like he used to either, kind of like Axl.  Also the guitar player from AudioSlave sucks too.  All his songs sound the same.

Gotta disagree whole heartedly here

Cornell is an amazing frontman not to mention a near peerless singer/songwriter

He is a rock god, hands down and commands more respect in the rock pantheon than Scott ever has or will

I saw Audioslave live in Wellington on their last tour and they were incredible - I think theyre stronger live than anything else as I have been disappointed with their recorded output (especially their latest effort)

I've always loved chris from soundgarden days.. They have the semi ballady song that's pretty popular on the radio today and it is very average for such a powerfull combination of artists. I never understand how that new song has staying power..

I think Chris has a good voice but it still bores the piss out of me. That is with Soundgarden, solo and Audioslave. I did liek some shit on Badmotorfinger though.

Back on topic, if VR did an orchestra type song, it would suck.  As much as I love the band, I really don't think Scott has it in him.  If the lyrics to the song are as strange as most of Contraband, the general public won't buy into it and the song would sink faster than the DLT single has....

they can do it as long as they dont try to copy anything else...

They should only include an orchestra if Scott/ Matt or maybe Slash write all of the string sections/ other orcestra parts themselves.

There is nothing more cheesy then rock bands including a symphony, and having the bandmaster write music for them.

I doubt they'll ever do an orchestra type thing.  They seem to be doing everything in their power to not draw comparisions to GN'R.  A song like that would constantly be compared to November Rain. 

I think it would be hypocritical since all I hear out of Matt's mouth is that he hated doing that kind of stuff when he was in GN'R.

I saw Audioslave the other week, one of the best bands I have ever seen, and Chris Cornell is the best vocalist bar none of the last 15-20 years. :beer:

On topic, if VR want to chuck some orchestral stuff onto YGNR, fair play to them. But I doubt it's something they'll do for the new album, it's probably something they wanted to try and get it out of their system. : ok:

Yeah, in the Behind The Music Matt talks about his not liking Axl using piano in the songs.  How stupid is that?  Tons of great rock bands used lots of piano in their songs.  Aerosmith being a prime example.

I think Matt's point was that he thought he was joining AFD Guns and not the Guns that evolved out of that.

Yeah, I also think that's what he meant, but he worded what he said poorly.  He said something like, "What's with the piano?"  He should've expressed his point a litle better.

Don't forget by the time BTM was made alot of years have gone by with alot of animosity built up.   According to Matt, he wanted to confront Axl with the rest of the guys but they backed out so obvisouly Matt has anger there, that could be why he sounded a bit nasty with the piano comment.  In the making of NR, Matt seemed to be fully on board explaining his parts to the song.  So it just goes to show, that either he was bullshitting and making it look for the Making of or he's just angry now.