Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What GN'R albums do you think were the best and worst when it comes to the production.
I think TSI was the best produced album they had and I also thnk that the UYI albums were the worst.
TSI was mixed perfectly. Everything just sounds unreal where as UYI 1 N' 2 sounded good with the vocals and guitars but the thing that let GN'R down with UYI was the drums. There is barely any kick drum and the cymbles were hard to hear as well.
So what do You think?


 :peace:

couldnt agree more on the UYI drumming....ahhh matt.. ::)

Great thread

Gotta go with

1. Speghetti Incident  (It sounded up to date and Matts drums rock for a change)
2. Lies  (You can't beat the acoustic side of lies, that is how music is supposed to sound, dropped picks and all  :smoking:)
3. AFD (This is how rock and roll is supposed to sound, however the rhythm guitar is sometimes really hard to hear)
4. UYI II (Doesn't sound quite as dated as I)
5 UYI I (Sounds the most dated of the albums and tracks like Don't Damn Me and Dead Horse could have had a higher vocal mix)

Yeah, the UYIs could have sounded much better.  I blame the drum sound problems mainly on Matt.  Steven just does so much more when he's drumming.  Also the rythym guitar is sometimes non-existent...kinda like how they were live.  Izzy's guitar was always way too quiet.  However, I do think the bass sounds very good, as does Axl.  All the rest had fine production.

As a musician and with some experience in production and sound, I dont think the problem with the drum sound was Matt's problem at all. His playing is good and proffessional (hey, the man has played drums for The Cult, GnR and VR for fucks sake) so if you feel there is something wrong, it's problaby how it was mixed.( I actually enjoy the mix on all albums, and the one I like least is TSI, but that's just my opinion) And remember that all the albums were made between 86 until 93, thats between 12 and 19 years ago. Studio/recording tech have come a lot further since then.... Just think how your PC or mobile phone looked like back then? ? ;)

Mine had a coconut attached.  ;D

In my opinion the reason why UYI 1&2 were so bad production-wise were due to over-production.  I just hope Axl has learned a thing or two or else I'm afraid that CD, provided we ever get it, will sound like UYI 1&2.

A lot of people feel that UYI's were overproduced, but I disagree.  I think they were underproduced.  There's a lot more to the songs, and there is more production work, but the production work was never taken to the level that it needed to be taken to.  November Rain and Estranged are the two best sounding songs, production wise, imo, and you can tell they put a lot of effort into how they sound, and it works.  If the rest of the songs had the same treatment, I believe they would sound better.

As far as Matt Sorum's drumming, I don't really like it on UYI, but like Axl himself said, they were asking him to play in Steven's style, which he just doesn't sound that great doing.  Conversely, when he plays his own style, like in VR, his drumming sounds fantastic.

the problem with matt drums is that it sounded too loud and too "metal" for a GNR. on 14 years and yesterday, the drums is much too loud compared to the rest of the song. Steven drums sounded perfect for appetite and Brain sounds great for the momment (live).

1. GN'R Lies 'acoustic' side - It's not acoustic really, but holy shit it's good. And carefully underproduced. It sounds almost like they all sat in a circle and just jammed. Nothing silly or unnecessary, making it so much more powerful. The key here is that it lets the songs breathe.

2. Appetite for Destruction - A slice of Sunset Boulevard sleaze, and it's produced to reflect that. Raw and uncompromising, but on a technical side the bass and rhythmn guitar could be louder. Something to take into consideration, then, when it comes to producing the inevitable 20th-aniversary special rerelease.

3. "The Spaghetti Incident?" - Raw, punk-rocky album. Exactly the record they needed to release after Use Your Illusion. Gilby acquits himself brilliantly in what was (unfortunately) his only studio recording with Guns, showing himself to be while not better than Izzy (he's a lead guitarist at heart), certainly a fine replacement. Shame about some of the songs they chose (Since I Don't Have You? What the fuck?).

4. Live Like A Suicide/GN'R Lies side 1 - It should really be 'Dead Like a McDonald's Hamburger', since it has those crowd noises and shit added, but apart from those unfortunate 'Crowd Goes Nuts' overdubs and that fucking roadie at the start of Reckless Life, it's raw like Appetite, but could really have done with some proper studio time to smoothe the rough edges (some of Axl's screaming really grates). Good, though, considering it was recorded for next to nothing.

5. Use Your Illusion I - Ranked higher than it's sister because of Coma and November Rain (the only songs on the two albums that benefit from lavish production), it was horribly overproduced, almost ruining the whole album. It wins a few points, however, for Garden of Eden, which is a 101 lesson in saying 'fuck you!' in rock'n'roll despite the fact you're using synthsisers.

6. Sypathy for the Devil Single - "Save us, Goat-Boy!"

7. Use Your Illusion II - Estranged is utterly ruined by overproduction, string orchestras and whatnot here. What could have been a poweful ballad is turned instead into an excersize in self-indulgence. Loses all credibility with My World, a pathetic piece of studio-orientated Eurotrash crap, which will hopefully be left off any future rerelease.

Wow, Estranged ruined? Are you nuts? I know there's problems with the mix (Izzy almost inaudible), but it's a piano oriented and that sounds just fine along with Slash's lead.

I guess the rhythm guitar on AFD is just fine. I can hear both Izzy and Slash very well, wich didn't happen in the Illusions albums at all. Same with Lies, One In A Million and You're Crazy sounds amazing with the two-accoustic + eletric guitar set. The drums and bass sounds were easier to mix, though.

I actually like the mix in SFTD. I'm one of the few who really liked the Tobias/Slash duo. But I can't hear Duff and Axl as quite as I would like.

But that's it. As a piano/lead guitar melody goes, it's spectacular. But that's buried in strings, synth, keyboards and stuff. Then there was the video, which in it's own way was ludicrously overproduced. Why the fucking oil tanker, and the dolphins? Do we really need the band in rescue boats, helicopters and things, as Slash emerges from the sea? Painful viewing.

SFTD - Excuse the awful metaphor, but imagine you've got Pele (in his prime) in your team, and you replace him with Wayne Rooney. Sure, Rooney's good, but you had Pele before. Gilby is Pele and Tobias is Wayne Rooney. He's good, but no great. And they fucked up the song's intro with sound effects.

According to the producer; on BTM that's what they did.

in order of best production, i'd put;

TSI
LIES
AFD
UYI 2
UYI 1

On appetite i find the bass hard 2 hear. the second half of lies is gr8. UYI 1 is wierd cuz u but it on a low volume and it sounds loud still

We're talkin' about the albums... You can't judge the sound of the song by its video. :P

No way in hell! I know, Tobias is not that great... But Gilby was only the power-chords guy. Paul at least did some guitar work a la Izzy, while Gilby only played bars and act like a rockstar in the stage - and that's all. And what sound effects in the intro are you talking about? :confused:

WHAT?? ??? are you fine tonight? EStranged is fantastic the way it is!

uyi's 1@2 were missing something they rocked but just did not have the afd grit

I agree with the guy who said Illusions was way overproduced. This is strange, considering the fact that GNR only spent two years on the project. CD will probably suffer a similar or worse fate. CD will probably be like Def Leppard's 'Hysteria': A good album, but overproduced to the extreme. The album could have been a timeless classic if they hadn't spent years trying to perfect it. Instead, it wound up sounding VERY dated. When you hear it, all you think of is 80's cheese.

I don't understand exactly what's bad in overproducing, really!  :peace:

Fair point.

He 'only played power chords'? Newsflash darling - that's what punk rock is all about! Those guys were trying to get rid of long guitar solos and complex song structures in favour of 3-minute songs with a few power chords slammed together and a badass attitude. Have you listened to his Wild Horses solo spots on the Illusion tour? Yowsa! Probably one of the best Stones covers (it counts as a cover in my opinion, even though it's really a guitar solo based on the song) ever. And I'm confusing the intro with the coda. The weird-ass samples and "Don't forget to drink your milk" and shit.

I remember them saying it now, Jamie, but thanks. Must've been magic to watch them.

And Nesquick, I feel perfectly fine, thanks. And Estranged is still an overproduced mess. The tragedy is, it's a great song. Slash is absolutely blistering throughout, the piano works magnificently with the guitars and drums, and Axl puts in a spectacular performance and even better lyrics. But the swirling orchestral stuff shouldn't be there. Hell, I'm not even against hard rock or heavy metal bands employing classical orchestras (Metallica, while I'm not a huge fan, pulled it off brilliantly). November Rain I could just about accept, because they string section seemed to fit in there, but with Estranged it all just seemed like unnecessary self indulgence. Like he was trying desperately to make it an epic, to do GN'R's Stairway to Heaven.

Hey, I'm not talkin' about punk rock, but Guns N' Roses. TSI is not the only way to hear Gilby's work, as you already said when you talked about Wild Horses. And yeah, it's cool, but this is just a jam with Slash. Listen to Izzy in Rocket Queen (even live) and then listen to Gilby. You'll know what I'm talkin' about.

There's no orchestral stuff in Estranged. :P

I remember thinking the first time i gave a listen to TSI that it was crisper/clearer than previous GNR discs.

I would also say Lies is the least produced as they recorded the entire 2nd side in one session. So it's hard to say it was well produced when there wasn't much production involved. It's obviously great though.

I favor AFD over the UYI's because I think theres a little too much production on the UYI's. The UYI's definitely have their moments though.

Don't get me wrong, Stradlin' is easily the second greatest rhythmn player in thhe world (behind Keef, obviously). #But I just think Gilby's cool too. This ain't really getting anywhere, is it? I just don't think anything will get me to like Paul 'Pronounced Hoo-gey' Tobias, or the circumstances of his coming to play with Guns. Y'know, I mean still consider him GN'R's Yoko.


Okay, the swirling stringy-violin-type stuff. You know what I mean, the first few verses.

You mean Slash working with the volume knob in his guitar? This is one of the best things in the song, IMO, and I'm sure that's why Axl put "thanks for the killer riffs" or something...

No, not that bit. Hmm... On listening through my hi-fi headphones, I can't hear the bit I heard before :-[. Might be these crappy speakers; but I still say Estranged would work better with less in-studio fiddling.

Which is ironic considering that an album full of punk covers would probably benefit from a grungier, more garage production. I thought TSI was kind of crappy because it sounded way too slick to be a believeable attempt at a punk tribute.

There's nothing even RESEMBLING orchestral work in Estranged. You sir, are talking out of your ass.

Would you rather fifty Hail Marys or fifty Our Fathers as penance?

I'd rather you did some checks before going on mad rants but, it's cool whatever works for you.

Well, okay fine. It's been a while since I've given either UYI a spin (for the previously listed reasons), I just remember some swirly type shit going on somewhere near the beginning - perhaps I confused Estranged with November Rain. I object to 'mad rant' though - considering some of the mad rants there have been on this message board, that was far from a mad rant.

And Estranged is still overproduced. Bite me. :P

You must be thinking of November Rain Axemanonfire.  Estranged is piano, guitar, drum, bass and vocal only.  And it's awesome.  November Rain has shit-loads of strings, horns (electronic) etc.

AFD - for me what lets it down is the lack of bass, it needs bringing out.  Appetite would sound fu(king heavy if the bass sounded as it's played.  There's nothing coming out the speakers unless you have it cranked right up, even then it's not enough.  The drums are a little OTT as well, but the rest is fine.

Lies - great, wouldn't change it in any way.

UYI 1 - good overall, but too many unecessary touches.  I hate those deep voice things that appear on some songs.  For me the bass is still the big problem.  Where oh where is the bass hiding on Bad Obsession?  Compare that to Don't Cry where it's there in spades and you'll see what I mean.  Some of Axl's vocals could be a little tidier and clearer.  Drums are ok, they're just being played a bit robotically.  Mike Clink sucks imo.

UYI 2 - as above for 1.  Bass is hiding on YCBM of all songs, while it's there on 14 Years, Civil War etc.  YCBM should sound heavy but sounds, well, unheavy.  It still rules though.  Breakdown could be an unbelievable song if it weren't for the production, it's appalling, even I could prob do better.  My World should be kept in for the sake of completion!

TSI? - the best production is on here folks.  Guitars mix well, the drumming is great, the vocals are mostly great, hell even the bass isn't bad!  SIDHY is a cool song, the vocals are immense.

SFTD & OMG - don't think Sympathy... is too bad, overproduced though it is.  Oh My God is more like a demo than anything else.  I'm sure there's an unreleased finished article, I'd love to hear it cos the song fu(king kicks arse.

On the Contrary I thought the orchestral work on NR was rather half assed. Could be more refined.

Ra-Amen to that.:headbanger:

I have to agree with that too. I am very pleased with all the punk covers on that album as GnR actually did the material justice but to me the production and sound quality is waaaay to polished for genuine 70's/80's punk rock.


I dont know what quality of a sound system or portable cd player you use perhaps, but I have never had difficulty identifying the bass in YCBM, on the contrary I think Duff's riffs compliment the rhythm of the song perfectly. Maybe the production on Breakdown isnt "flawless" but I wouldnt change a thing on it because the song is a true gem for me at least..The majority of people hated My World but i take it for what it was, just Axl killing some time in the studio probably, although it was a proverbial "taste of things to come" a' la"Oh My God"

When I say the bass is hiding I don't mean I can't detect it, rather it's just not what it should be.  Duff can be playing a 'heavy' note and it doesn't come out of the speakers as actual bass.  I have a decent stereo (140w x2) and even when the sub's fully on the bass isn't really there.  Compare that to well-produced things like the Black album etc and it's soft in comparison.  I have to agree with you on Breakdown, I love it, but improvements can definately be made.

Also nobody has mentioned the Tokyo DVD's.  A reason I believe they're embarassing to hear for some GNR fans is the productions is total bollocks.  I mean can you even hear the rhythm section?  Gilby's almost mute and they didn't bring any bass out at all.  Even the kick drum's restrained.  Whover was in charge of the DVD re-releases must be retarded or just never bothered to assess the sound.

I honestly beleive some of GNR's production flaws let them down in the popularity stakes as far as casual listeners are concerned.

Well so far the demos from CD have much better production then the other albums i think. What do you recon???


 :peace:

Cool Topic, here're my thoughts:

AFD: It sounds fine, but the fact is that it is definitely a dated mix being that it's a mid-1980s record. Still, the production is clear and everything seems almost perfectly balanced - Its only flaw is that it could use a little more "umph" with a remaster or something.

Lies: Obviously the most "unproduced" of the bunch, but it totally works for the record.

UYI I: Ah, problems. There're a lot of issues here: Ham-fisted drumming and barely audible rhythm guitar, spotty vocal mixes, and on the whole the guitars just sound too diluted for the most part. Also has issues with overproduction - I HATE that fucking "deep" voice that pops up on both UYI records.

UYI II: Pretty much the same issues plague this record, though the vocals received a better mix here.  The DEEP VOICE is still annoying. Overproduction mars a couple of otherwise fantastic songs (Breakdown, You Could Be Mine).

TSI: Awesome mix, sounds bold and up-to-date, with a much better drum sound and fiercer guitar sounds. Strange too, considering that it's an album of punk covers and it receives the most impressive mix treatment of the bunch. Still, the album sounds terrific.

Oh My God: The most debated mix of any GNR track. Personally, I love it - The song is overproduced to hell, but the mix is balanced and everything sounds just right. Yeah, there's arguably too much going on - But it's a balanced mix, in my opinion.

in you guys' analyses, are you listening on a high end system or headphones? i think that would make a big difference....

And what exactly would that difference be???

It doesn't matter whether it's speakers or headphones. High-end is high-end and crap is crap. Although you're probably bound to hear details relatively better on headphones.

1. TSI
2. AFD
3. LIES
4. Sympathy
5. UYI 1/2 (tie)
6. Oh My God

I always thought the Illusions sounded muddy as hell.  I don't know if this is because there were too many elements stacked on top of each other, but there is a lot of the sounds are lost and there isn't a lot of seperation between them.  But the worst by far is Oh My God.  Just complete sludge.  Love the song and the arrangement of the music, but it sounds like an old analog Walkman when the battery is running out.

I think Spaghetti is razor fucking sharp, and Appetite is Appetite.  Lies sounds pristine, but how much 'production' really went into it.  Mike the drums, guitars, tell everyone to shut up, and lock Axl in the booth.

Shoeboy

I have never really even thought about the production/mixing thing.. I love all of the records and that's enough for me :yes: But one thing I hate is the Live Era -album.. didn't they re-record some of the parts for it? Bootlegs sounds much more better : ok:

Yeah TSI seemed the most pleasant to listen to... hence always got more playing time with me than illusions.  Almost more than AFD. 

UYI's:  Overproduction may have seemed right for songs like Estranged but didn't quite work for me for songs like Garden of Eden/ Shotgun blues, I would have liked a more TSI sound.

Oh My God?  Oh My Fucking God what were they thinking? Distortion on Axls vocals?   Are the mids lacking?   The drumbeat sounds cool but the drums just don't sound right.   Wait wait I get it... thats the industial sound... now it makes sense.   I just don't like the industrial sound I suppose from a production standpoint.



I AM WORRIED ABOUT CD.

Axl is producing now and if his voice being buried in the demos....(speculation) and if that is any indication of his influence  :(

I just hope we get a Good sounding vocal, I expect it to be over produced and overlayered like the illusions... They want this huge symphony of sound it seems like with three guitars and two keyboards.  It can work, I just don't know how much Axl knows about seperation and the sound field.  He's a smart guy though, I'm sure it won't suck. 

none of the albums were over or under produced,the album were produced how GN'R wanted them,not how people on here wanted them to sound,and it's also funny that it's now that people complain,no many complained when those albums came out,that's just my opinion ofcourse  :peace:

What do u think of the production of the demos? The drums sound awesome but overall its a bit to bassy imo. What do you think?


 :peace:

TSI's production is good from a technical standpoint but crap from an aesthetic standpoint. Punk rock with big reverby rock drums is kinda weak. And unfortunately there isn't a song on there that betters the original. I mostly blame this on taking punk rock and giving it the UYI sheen.

Man, I think all the GN'R versions on TSI are better than the originals.  Even Attitude, and I'm a pretty big Misfits fan.

I really like the production on AFD but the UYI production really isn't my thing. Everything is so 'booming' and the guitars sound washed out. Way too much echo on the drums too.