Here Today... Gone To Hell!

It's a thought from yahoo:

Jesus Died Of DVT, Scientist Claims
A new theory has emerged that Jesus was one of the earliest victims of deep vein thrombosis.The potentially fatal condition, also known as pulmonary embolism, has become associated with long-distance flights as people's immobility in aeroplanes can cause blood clots.But an Israeli professor says Jesus may have died from a blood clot which reached his lungs, challenging the popular conception that he died of blood loss during his crucifixion.

Professor Benjamin Brenner, a doctor at the Rambam Medical Centre in the Israeli port city of Haifa, put forward his theory in the Journal of Thrombosis and Haemostasis.

He wrote: "It is known that the common cause of death in the setting of multiple trauma, immobilisation and dehydration is pulmonary embolism.

"This fits well with Jesus' condition and actually was in all likelihood the major cause of death of crucified victims."

A pulmonary embolism is caused when a blood clot develops in deep leg veins and then moves up to the lungs, causing an acute shortness of breath and chest pains.

Professor Brenner based his understanding of Jesus' condition at the time of his death on a previous work published nearly 20 years ago in the Journal of American Medical Association.

The paper found that before his crucifixion Jesus went 12 hours without food or water, was under emotional stress, was beaten and forced to walk to the crucifixion site carrying a heavy cross part of the way.

That article found that Jesus died suddenly on the cross only three to six hours after the start of the crucifixion, and concluded it was from blood loss.

A co-author of the earlier paper dismissed the new claims.

Dr William Edwards said : "Jesus was on the cross for only six hours. It seems unlikely a large deep leg vein thrombus could develop and cause fatal pulmonary embolisation in that short time."

IF Jesus had been on any cross at all ( this still needs to be proven in my eyes), he wouldn't have needed to die from all these :

On a cross, under the palestine sun, attacked by flies and all sorts of mosquitos sucking dripping blood, and probably a few chackals eating the lower parts of his body ?


He would have been dead before that.

maybe he died from old age ? ;D

Yo, probabaly : ok: (no offence guuuys)

Shut it - Jesus existed and he was executed by cruxification, a very common means of killing people at the time. That isn't a belief - thats a provable reality. Whether he was the son of God is a matter for belief but his life and death are established fact.

U believe in ghosts and astrology and yet would call into doubt a major world religion? U need to spend more time with that shrink, or perhaps try a new one

Only scum was crucified and not everyone believes jesus was enither scum or a political activist.

Therefore, prove he was crucified.

And for the love of god, read, because although our beliefs are different, you don"t have to attack me on something world scientists and historians can't agree on themselves.

You hide, sometimes, your lack of knowledge, by agressivity.

What do you do to women when they disagree ?

He sits 'em down and forces 'em to listen to him while he sings 14 Years... :yes:

Jesus Christ!!

 :o

what cruelty !!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

For the love of God! :nervous:

Only scum were crucified? U claim to know alot about this era's crime and punishment! Can i see ur history degree? I got mine.


 ::)

I don't need to, about ten thousand scholars beat me to it - when the doctors decide ur sufficiently sane to re-enter society, try reading a few books :peace:

I only hope HTGTH's god squad read ur post - it will be an intresting response!


They do agree - Jesus and his death are fact : ok: People only disagree as to whether he was the son of god - but there was a Jesus - and yes a Muhummed too! And even a President Kennedy!


 :rofl:
Lack of knowledge....? I've told u a fact and thats....a lack of knowledge? Maybe ur sentence worked better in french? Or baby talk?

What u mistak as aggression is actually amsusement - i find ur ramblings amusing and try to point u a little closer to the reality the rest of the world experience but the drugs ur on seem to inhibit :hihi:

U don't even bother to hide your ignorance - and i don't take insults from a person seeing a psychiatrist, but wait - u see them because ur not crazy, i get it ::)



I hit them repeatedly ::)

And i don't actually think we're disagreeing - ur talking rubbish and i'm agreeing ur talking rubbish :D

I'd love to continue talking but i've just seen a ghost and need to check my horoscope to see my destiny :rofl:

Apparently i'm as good as Sheryl Crow's version of Sweet Child 'O mine....wait, is my singing that bad?!

Ohhh...man Izzy I've never laughed so hard!!

Women....  :D

Hang on, the threads about jesus dying of DLT, not sherly crow, or history degrees for that matter. [/sigh]

Our Father who art in heaven, please deliver me from this thread  :hihi:

Since DVT is associated with long term exposure to high altitudes and Jesus has of course spoken to God who is high above the clouds...this to me is clear evidence that Jesus existed and was, without doubt, a fan of the Japanese TV series Monkey

(http://www.monkeyheaven.com/masaaki4.jpg)

Jesus wasn't crucified because he was scum fo a political activist. He was cruxified because the pharaiees thought he was teching the common people to ignore the laws of the torah. So, in other words, we was killed because he "blasphemed"  ::)

Sorry Jessica, for once I'm with Izzy.   :-[

Actually, maybe for the second time....

Granted, I have no degree in it. But my common understanding has always been that there is documented proof from the time that a 'man' called Jesus did, indeed, live and was, indeed, crucified............................................

Scientists and doctors (who tend not to believe in Jesus' divinity) wanting to understand the physical causes of Christ's death is nothing new.? It has been researched and discussed for decades, even centuries.


1) While the yielding up of life was voluntary on the part of? Jesus Christ, for He had life in Himself and no man could? take His life except as He willed to allow it to be taken, there was of necessity a direct physical cause of death.? ?

2) Jesus Christ was crucified through both the hands and wrists, as well as the feet.

3)? The crucified sometimes lived for days upon the cross, and death resulted, not from the infliction of mortal wounds, but from internal congestion, inflammations, organic disturbances, and consequent exhaustion of vital energy.

4) Jesus, though weakened by long torture during the preceding night and early morning, by the shock of the crucifixion itself, as also by intense mental agony, and particularly through spiritual suffering such as no other man has ever endured, manifested surprising vigor, both of mind and body, to the last.

5) The strong, loud utterance, immediately following which He bowed His head and "gave up the ghost," when considered in connection with other recorded details, points to a physical rupture of the heart as the direct cause of death. If the soldier's spear was thrust into the left side of the body and actually penetrated the heart, the outrush of "blood and water" observed by John is further evidence of a cardiac rupture; for it is known that in the rare instances of death resulting from a breaking of any part of the wall of the heart, blood accumulates within the pericardium, and there undergoes a change by which the corpuscles separate as a partially clotted mass from the almost colorless, watery serum. Similar accumulations of clotted corpuscles and serum occur within the pleura.? Great mental stress, poignant emotion either of grief or joy, and intense spiritual struggle are among the recognized causes of heart rupture.

6) It could be said, both literally and figuratively, that Jesus died of a broken heart.

Well if any person is beaten their shit out, no matter if your a God's son I bet the poor man should die when he gets crucified. Who can resist a beat up and then be crucified? No one in the world.
And yes N.I.B. was right he was crucified because he was considered a blaspheme.

you dont take insults from a person seeing a psychiatrist ?? thats a pretty stupid thing to say , and if you think that the only reason for a person to go with a psychiatrist its because they are crazy then you are not as inteligent as you tried to show with your posts .

Ur forgiven :hihi: - there is a backstory to all this, if u wish to find it out check back through past threads - the idea of a 'wacko' psychonalanysising me is curious to say the least



Often, i include a certain tongue in cheek element to my posts, such posts wording are not to be taken too literally - rather the essence of the point will be more important. When i choose to be serious it will be very apparent.

And my post most definetly was NOT trying to seem intelligent...if u thought it was, thanks, but it was just making one basic point - Jesus did exist and was cruxified

On topic,

i'm surprised doctors have struggled for so long to work out how Jesus died - i'd have thought being severely beaten, crucified and then impaled with a spear and the subsequent blood loss was a pretty straight forward explanation - but if they think so, cool.

Those who have been around here for any considerable length of time should be familiar with Jessica's "unorthodox" views on Jesus Christ.

I will say, while they are pretty far out there, they are nonetheless more amusing than the tired and predictable views you'll hear from HTGTH's atheists/agnostics.

Personally the entire story of JC, and the people who follow him (including the guys with the funny hats) are rather amusing to me. Especially since so much of the bible has been proven false, or to condradict itself at best.

P.S. God told me to write this post.

Such as?

For the record, there are scriptural records - in addition to the Bible - that attest to the reality of Jesus Christ.

Before you ask, SLCPUNK, don't bother.

Pearls before swine and all that....

Are you LDS?

Noah's Ark and the flood for starters. Most rational people can think a tad and realized this never happened.

I never said Jesus did not exist.

****

Are you REALLY that holier than thou?

Where did Jesus say it was ok to be a prick on a message board?

Just curious.

Like I said my friend, don't come back to Utah.? You'd be miserable.? ?;)

(your liking for Little Cottonwood Canyon notwithstanding)


Well sheesh, there is a whole lotta stuff in the Bible that would appear quite implausible to "rational" people isn't there?? That's often why they are called miracles or acts of God.? However, while the sciptural account is at least one witness that they did happen, there is no proof that they didn't.



True.? But for a guy who is usually first out of the gate when it's time to offer an opinion, you haven't said much else on the subject.



In total honesty.....nah.? Although I believe what I believe, a lot of how I come across is pretty tongue in cheek.


That could easily apply to both of us.

In the bible didn't Adam live for 900 years. And other people also lived for 500 years plus? ???

how the hell does that work?

Like I said my friend, don't come back to Utah.  You'd be miserable.   ;)

I'm bringing friends....it's gonna change.

SLC is changing SLOWLY but surely. It's got gay bars now, expensive downtown condos, the usual crap.


Well sheesh, there is a whole lotta stuff in the Bible that would appear quite implausible to "rational" people isn't there?  That's often why they are called miracles or acts of God.

That is an easy out. Just say "Hey it's a miracle." That explains everything.

Not.

However, while the sciptural account is at least one witness that they did happen, there is no proof that they didn't.

The proof lies with common sense.

There are over 350,000 species of beetles alone. All the animals on the planet? Jeeesh.

The plumbing system must have been the most complex of it's day to deal with all the waste these animals put out.

How did all the animals get back to the region from which they came?

That could easily apply to both of us.

I don't use Jesus as an excuse to act like a prick.........

 I am one all by myself - thankyou.

Dude, didn't you read what he said?

There were miracles back in those days.

 :P

Your right it didn't happen like that - he got 2 of every bug? Even the ones the other side of the world??? How would he have transported or even found them!

But, my 2 cents

The Bible is essential a series of stories to explain to ill-educated people things even we today struggle to comprehend

The world wasn't created in 6 days - but try telling a peasant 2000 years ago about the Big bang! We can't explain it now! Its a story to make sense of it - after all it is essential true - the world did evolve to the point where humans existed by stages....

The flood could be a story or more likely there was a bad flood and Noah had a boat that his livestock went into - only if u take the Bible literally do u have a problem - its the essence thats important


They didn't have any idea the world took 365 days to rotate - their years where very different - what we consider to be a year would have been about 10 for them - i think they measured it by seasons or something. After all if u lived on Mercury u'd be about 800 by now because the years are shorter

I'm on the fence when it comes to religion - but as long as u don't take it literally and devote more time to the essence, what it is trying to say rather than the exact words it used - then it holds together pretty well


Its funny - i never noticed her before...my horoscope should have warned me :hihi: Horoscope= :rofl:


Nothing more boring than extremist views - the truth is somehwere in the middle and those who claim (insert religious text) is 100% right ot 100% wrong - well.....

noah's arc, the garden of eden, all those stories are myths, just like the greek ones. so dont pay too much attention to them, seeing as they don't focus on Jesus Christ.

Also keep in mind that the stories of the old testament were written 2000 years B.C, so it was possoble that they live that long. the jews, after all, were God's 'chosen people"

hahaha!!!!











P.S.   hahahaha!!!!!!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

no no no.

see they lived that long, but then God decided that people were living for too long so he cut a human's lifespan down to 100 years. it has nothing to do with how they measured years.

OK. Let me get this straight, the old testament we should disregard, cause they are myths. But at the same time, we should keep in mind that people probably lived longer in those days for mythical lengths of time.

Then we should only focus around the scripture as it relates to Jesus because it is not a myth. <-----That part is fact. So the bible is part myth/part fact (especially the part about JC)?

What about the ten commandments? Those are from the old testament. Would you say you follow those?

As usual, somebody who uses the bible, on their terms. You know why? Because it's the only way you can. Because so much of it condradicts itself there is no other way around it. You can not embrace the entire book without being a stone cold hypocrite.

Er - u asked me to explain it, then claim my explanation is wrong? :P

So God cut down people's lifespan - now i explain it in a way that is generally accepted - and makes sense and u turn round and claim it was God....

Well, okay - but i wish u'd warned me u were a fundamentalist

Only a fundamentalist believes every word in the Bible is true

The Bible is about more than Jesus.....


Possible they lived to be 900?

I have no idea how to respond to that.

U believe people in the past lived....longer than we do?

Consider the life expectancy at the time was about 30 for a man....they had no doctors....no medicine..and they lived longer? Fucks sake

no i was just pointing out how ridiculous some of the bible is. everything amazing that happens is a "miracle" or a "work of god". like the people that wrote it thought...... "shit, we said adam and all of his posse lived for 900 years, but we only live for like 90 years tops..........hey ishmal.....can i get a little help here i got a problem............look just say god decided that people would only live for a 100 years tops..........ah good idea : ok:"

i misunderstood you then. i thought you were trying to defend some of the truth in the bible. seems apparent that you are not.

very good then.

I was trying to defend a basic truth to the Bible - again i'm not actually sure if i believe, but the 'inconsistencies' are pretty easy to deal with

Its essence is sound - but much of it is metaphor and thus insane to interpret literally

Rather than take the Bible for what it directly says, see instead what it means to say, and don't become distracted with the little details

Moses wasn't really spoken to through a bush that was on fire but not burning - its just a way to make the story more intresting to peasants

People thousands of years before Jesus didn't live to be 900 - they lived to be 30 if they got lucky, and Noah certainly didn't catch two mosquito's (male and female - and without a microscope - what talent!)

i know what you are trying to do. give the bible at least some sort of rational explanation.

your point about the measuring of years and the inconsistencies that come with that seems valid i'll give you that. i could be super trivial and say that other people in the bible lived for 50 years or whatever under what would have been the same system of measurement that resulted in adam living for 900years but honestly its pointless.

i really don't know what to believe anymore. philosophy courses at uni have fucked me and my faith up.

my personal take on religion and such:

human beings don't want to die. we wanna be immortal. we want to live on forever either in spirit or mind or something.

religion gives a nice answer for that. afterlife, heaven, reincarnation, all forms of immortality. all ways of living forever. is there really a big ole party up in heaven?....is jimi hendrix shootin up some pool against goerge washington?

well fuck that. are we supposed to just believe that there's no such thing as death. i mean who the fuck cares we'll have consciousness and our spirit will live on. ::)

i say we die and we're gone and we're nothing. religion and stuff like the bible is man-made propoganda that just gives us false hope.

wow i've gone off track hahahah.

The Jewish calendar was Lunar it was 354 days long and an extra month was added every leap year.

I have to say Izzy has made some great points in this thread, the bible's stories are just parables

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

Ur right - back 2-3 thousand years ago u'd get many, many people living to be 80 for instance, its just the average was pretty low - in the UK in 1900 the life expectancy for a man was 40, in 1900!

But its just not plausible they lived to be a thousand but God shortened their wicked little lives....



Thanks :)

Though i don't think the bible is all fiction

I'm sure much of the Bible is true, or pretty close? - i'd imagine much of the New Testament is fairly true (i.e the people, the places, and the main events)

But - miracles for instance - i'm sure they are a stylistic device - all the good writers exaggerate a little bit to make the story more intresting - i.e Jesus buys a load of wine and delivers it unannounced when they were short of it - where did it come from people say? It must have been a miracle!

His curing of Lazarus - think about it, what a modern doctor does would seem a miracle 2000 years ago - these peoples limited education meant they were easily impressed remember, the simplist thing would seem a miracle - after all, if u went to some isolated Amazon tribe and showed them ur ''amazing'' mobile phone - they would believe u were talking with the spirit world.

Between the fundamentalists and the non-believers the Bible has been made to seem far more confusing than it is - its the points it made i.e ''don't steal'' that are important NOT how come on the road to wherever Jesus's disciples couldn't recognise him a week after they'd last seen him....Moses wasn't really walking the desert for 40 years, that's just obvious, but if the writer had said 4 days it wouldn't seem very impresive would it?

After thousands of years and a hundred translations - which weren't even started on till hundreds of years later! - is it really surprising there are inconsistencies? After all witnesses at the scene of an accident will all give different accounts, so disciples writing decades later can be forgiven

ok sorry Izzy  : ok:

i guess some people take the bible for what it is. there IS a general message of how to be a good person and live a good life in there. the inconsistencies in there though force people to choose parts of the bible to follow while ignoring others. all in all its not the holy all righteous book some people claim it is and its not to be taken too seriously (in regards to facts myths miracles all that mumbo jumbo).

i have a problem with the people that DO think its the holy all righteous book.........but then only choose to follow or acknowledge whatever principles they choose in the Bible that suites them.

I Like You.

meh what does it amtter anythign can be warped over 2000 yrs anyway... hell if it spin it right now... i could have been king of Cupids...