Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was watching the news today, and there was a man standing trial for murdering a police officer. His defense is claiming "insanity". Now insanity is a court term, not a psychological term. Defense attorneys use it to keep their clients from the death penalty or a life sentence without parole. The defense lawyer claims that his client just "snapped". However, according to psychology, no one just snaps. Individuals who have mental breakdowns are usually passive-aggressive people. They avoid distressful situations or issues until those issues form into a disorder. But most people, mentally ill or not, do not commit crimes.


One subject that never comes up in court, or in psychology books, is morality and spirituality. So the argument is, if someone has a mental breakdown, do they suddenly forget about right and wrong? If someone committed a crime against you or someone you love, would you blame their insanity? Or would you question their morality and who they are?

leave it to the lawyer's. : ok:

its never fare anyway in this world

So the argument is, if someone has a mental breakdown, do they suddenly forget about right and wrong?

Maybe they lose control and are unable to see right and wrong. Everybody is different.

If someone committed a crime against you or someone you love, would you blame their insanity? Or would you question their morality and who they are?

You would have to address both.

Somebody may have good morals and be a good person. However they may have a terrible temper and react with violence, only realizing their errors (and feeling remorse) after the deed. These types of? people have no control to begin with.

Some people, good people, just snap. Life can be brutal sometimes. I got screwed bad by my insurance a few years back. It costs thousand upon thousands of dollars. I was angry, frustrated, knowing I was getting screwed and no way to deal with it, other than bend over. It set me back, hurt me financially, made me wonder how life is fair because I was getting ripped off royally with no help in sight. I had to pay up the money or face severe life changing judgements and court action.

Now....I had sufficient income and was able to pay this off (begrudgingly). One night, in the middle of all this, it occured to me WHY good people snap.? Imagine if a guy who earned far less than me was handed the same bills. This man worked two jobs to feed his kids and insure them. His kid was sick, and he always paid his insurance for this reason. Now, his insurance won't pay his kids cancer treatment, and he starts getting enormous bills in the mail. No way he can pay these bills, so they place a judgement against him. He has a lien on his home, that he has worked so hard for. Now he faces losing his home to pay off the bills for his sick kid, that the insurance should have paid anyway. With a judgment comes ruined credit, possible bankruptcy and/or foreclosure on his home. Gut wreching finanical loss, for a person who already works two minimum wage jobs just to get by. Everything he has worked for ruined by one swipe of the pen, and his kid is sick.

Think that guy could snap?

That is my point, life can be brutal to good people. Anybody can "snap" with too much on their plate. So with that, I believe good people, with morals, can lose it and lash out. I think we see it much more then we realize.

I also think many crimes are committed while people are on drugs or alcohol. Obviously they tend to care less about consequences in this state. I would assume many are very ashamed after sobering up.

Who knows about the cop killer. (Everybody has a different definition of what crazy is. To me, just to pull the trigger and murder another person is crazy. Obviously not in court terms, but none-the-less, the act his hideous.) His lawyer is probably trying to get him life rather than old sparky. Or....the guy could really be a whack job...who knows.

when u lose it, I believe that u do lose all of your senses.

I honestly believe in temporary insanity.  I think it is very possible.

Like if i walked in and some guy was having sex with my woman, I believe Id kill him or could kill him and it would be cause at the moment u are just blinded with rage and have no control.

so it is a very realistic defense in my opinion.

If there were under extreme pressure they will have relieving judge in trial.

He should get a lawyer, rather than walking into an office and murdering everyone. And as you told the story, he didn't just snap. He had built-up frustration for awhile.

I understand that good people can have emotional breakdowns, I know I've had my share, but morality has always kept me from stepping over that line. I just think that the insanity plea is bogus. So many criminals are babied by the system. Morality and personal responsibility is put on the backburner, while excuses are handed out.

Yeah I think people can just lose it.

I mean there's just that much one can handle. People comit suicide, too.

My friends mothers bf beat her up so she broke her nose and was in real bad shape, I do believe I wouldn't have listened to the sound of reason at that point. A guy like that deserves to get his food through a hose.

I mean your sweet mother, the kindest person in the world, beaten up and sobbing and you can only wonder how she managed to crawl out away from there, and that bastard's there still drinking and feeling so God damn pleased in himself.

How can people difference between sanity and insanity if the person that commited the crime was supposed to be under pressure, I mean that's pretty tricky.
Also it's a valid statement to loose your mind if you are in really difficult circunstances but is there a limit??

HI, I would like to know, why you have chosen the topic of MORALITY?
Its a topic as hard to discuss as the beautiful itself is... ;)

I was not condoning this guy snapping. However in life you can not get a lawyer on a case pro-bono unless the chance is high you will win. Which is slim to none in such a case. Or it takes straight up money to hire one, which most hard working people don't have laying around (read: thousands of dollars). In my case I went to lawyers and none would touch the case. They told me that I'd spend my money and lose. I even sleuthed down a lady who worked on a win only basis who would not touch the case.

Again I'm not saying it's ok for people to "snap" and shoot a place up. I'm just saying everybody responds differently to stress. What you and I may dig deep down and handle, another person may flip out on. I've seen everyday people put through the ringer and asked myself if I was able to handle it the way they did. I know plenty of people who would have walked from my situation and let the banks put liens on the property etc, or just declare bankruptcy and walked away (which is a more passive aggresive form of "snapping" , ie just giving up).

I believe in temporary insanity to a degree. But people use this excuse all day long.

We are not all the same, that is for sure.

ahhh morality, a woman after my own heart

the person who commits a crime should be punished by law unless of course he is unaware he committed a crime...of course this can happen and there has to be a law that defends the person who is put into a position where he doesnt know he/she committed the crime...im sure it has been used numerous times by lawyers to pervade the course of justice...its such a subjective thing isnt it...were you insane at the time of the crime?...doesnt anyone really know what "insanity" means? how could lawyers know whats going through the persons mind when they committed the crime and how can they be sure thats the case?...and if someone can commit such a crime and that they can be "insane" during that crime then in my mind they can do it again...imo they should be punished to the same extent of the law as any non-temporary insane person is...having the "temporary-insanity" judgement in the system itself gives credence to people to act in such a manner during a crime...

im a passive-agressive person. Normally, ima  fin, nice, easy-going guy, but when i get pissed, i loose it and i dont give a second thought into it. I almost got stabbed because of that, by my own friend! I deal with it by controlling my rage, but when i loose it, you'd best run and wait it out.

Well I'd like to address the cop killing issue.? He, the suspect, had escaped from police custody. All other officers were alerted to keep a look out for him. A female officer was in the process of a routine traffic stop when she spotted him walking down the street. She approached him, and asked for his name. He became violent with her, so she tried to read him his rights and form an arrest. But she struggled, because he kept fighting with her. He some how managed to take her gun out of her holster. He shot her seven times in the head. When the other officers arrived on the scene, the only thing he said was, "I'm glad I killed the bitch." She was 26 years old, rookie of the year, and engaged to be married. She had her whole life ahead of her. He took her life.

His lawyer is claiming insanity. I wish someone could explain it to me, because I don't understand how anyone, insane or not, could murder another person in cold blood like that. Why is morality never questioned?

was she pretty?

it's sad.

Yes, she was beautiful. Her name was Julie.

(http://www.odmp.org/photo.php?id=16270)

soldier do it.
a lot of people do it.
it has nothing to with morality.

there are a lot of parameters that make people do actions.
faith and loyalty makes soldier kill a enemy because they have been ordered to.

about "temporary" insanity. i think that people are just weaker than someone else : i wouldnt have killed that cop if i was in the same situation.
for that weakness they should be in prison.

also, you didnt have to bring that she was 26 , rookie of the year, pretty, engaged ... if she was ugly, fat, lazy and single it would have been ok ?

No, it would not have been ok. I was trying to describe who she was, and what was going on in her life at the time. She was somebody, not just a statistic.

I will say this, a lot of people are mentally ill, drug users, and extremely desperate for money, but not all of those people commit murder. So it is a moral issue.

Good my young padawan, good...

Abstraction, relativism, singularity; these are the ways of the moral side...

EDIT - consider this your first lesson:

"Its a topic as hard to discuss as the beautiful itself is."

The above would read much better as the following:

It's a topic as difficult to discuss as the very concept of beauty itself.

Whaddya think?

nice english lesson MCT!

U da Man!

My brother is a cop and the first thing they teach them at the Police Academy  is, "If a criminal gets close enough to grab your gun, u made an enormous mistake"

not to sound rude,crude or cold hearted, but if a criminal shoots a cop with their own gun, the cop fucked up royally because a prisoner isnt suppose to ever get that close.

I feel bad for the woman though and that criminal will more than likely get the death penalty.

A police officer is a dangerous job though, they know they risk their lives everytime they go out on duty.

there is a difference in insanity and temporary insanity.

some people like that guy are just insane and will always be insane.

I believe whole heartedly that good people just snap sometimes.

When I was going through my tragic ordeal I came a hair of killing or seriously injuring one of my good friends.

I just snapped, I had him in a very painful armbar and was ready to inflict serious damage when luckily my friends pulled me away and calmed me down but at that time I felt like a rabid dog, a lion ready to rip the guts open of some weak prey.

At that moment I was temporarily insane, I couldve snapped that guy's neck and not even realized it.

like the dude SLC was talking about, imagine if some dude tried to mug him on the street or some dude in a bar pushed him, When u are under so much stress, it only takes one little tiny small thing to make u absolutely lose it.

so i definitely believe in temporary insanity.

when I was a kid my brother kept pickin on me and pickin on me and teasing me and hitting me and shit until I snapped, picked up a baseball cleat and beat him about 20 times in the head with it. Ive also threw a bucket of dirty mop water on him, hit him in the head with a wiffle ball bat.

I have been temporarily insane several times.

No, Yoda man!

Now fuck off, before I kills ya wit a wiffle ball...whatever the fuck that is... :hihi: ;D :) :-\ ???














... :nervous:...

Its a plastic baseball bat.

Its like women who have babies, most if not all experience a form of post partem *SP* depression.

Morality is the guide of Human's existence. It's a moral contract between human beeings.

I thought that is what a wiffle ball bat was........

Now I'm confused..........

Is that like when a doctor points to the legs of a woman in labor and says, "part 'em."

 ???

That's the key point with insanity, however... when you 'snap' and have an 'actual' breakdown, you no longer cognizant of what is right and wrong.  Of course... the right thing would be to get a lawyer... but, even as frustration builds, you don't necessarily realize that you are going to eventually snap.  You don't realize that you will eventually break down.  If breakdowns could be avoided... then, of course, there would be no need for the insanity plea. 

Journey, if you had a true 'emotional breakdown' and you were able to keep your sense of morality about you, it wasn't a true 'breakdown' of your sanity.  A true breakdown of sanity means that you no longer know the difference between what you should do and what you shouldn't do... you are no longer 'sane'. 

That does not mean that the insanity plea is not overused.  I think that the justice system in this nation (US) Is largely abused. 

"Part 'em" is an actual medical term.  :P

That makes sense. I just feel like people kind of erase responsibility when they take that route. If a guy knows he has a problem, whatever it may be, he should get help before he 'snaps' it onto someone else.

Medical term?

That would, of course, be ideal.   But, we don't always know when or if we are going to snap... that's kind of why it's called "snap" because its not something that we can predict... it happens... like a 'snap'. 

If we could predict when we are going to lose it, we wouldn't have the need for the insanity plea, nor would we need mental institutions or hospitals, or psychiatrists, or therapists...because we would have control of our mental facilities at all times.

Unfortunately, we can't predict these things.  So... we do need these institutions and people.  :)