Here Today... Gone To Hell!

1. they both hated their famlies , axl had to put up with a real religious family. Jim was an army brat.

2. they both had a real talent . Jim with the poetry and Axl with his singing voice

3. altho Axl wasn't as bad but they had drug problems

4. Axl always fought with his girlfriend Erin, same with Jim and his girl Pam. They either got along or they abused each other on and off.

5. this one i'm not sure but ," five to one" by the doors was beleived to be a racist song like One in a million by G n R.

6. Both were out of control lunatics , jim was a wild drunk and it was easy for axl to lose his temper.

7. when they became rock stars , they shunned their famlies  out of their lives. Jim lied his parents were dead . Axl tried bringing the family back together but trashed his hotel room when it didn't work
 
8. were both known for causing chaos at concerts.When Jim attacked the cop and was later cuffed on stage during the peformance. Axl attacked a man with a camera in st.louis
and after james from metallica got burned gnr peformed earlier. But axl got mad cuz his mic was broke so he walked off stage then an insane riot started.

9.Both were described as egotistical  frontmen by the public

10. Both the Doors and Guns n' Roses couldn't last that long together .Jim died ( altho believed that he faked his death) and Axl disappeared from the limelight after only like a half decade

I grew up with relatives that were teens in the 60's which was how i learned the facts from The  Doors and realised how much these two guys are alike . I like Guns a little better cuz i heard them since i was a little kid but they're both great bands that sadly only lasted a little bit

Interesting, though I've always considered Ian Astbury a much more Morrison type figure than Rose.

The same shaman like persona crossed with the  mystical metaphoric lyrical style, not to mention Astbury is fronting The Doors and has been for 3+ years now..

For me, Axl's always fell somewhere between Steve Tyler and Freddie Mercury, stylistically speaking.

Pretty damn good company...

to me axl's voice sounds like a cross between robert plant and brian johnson with a little steven tyler thrown in , im ' not sure about freddie mercury too femine sounding  for a male to me. but altogether axl has his own style as a front man

Five to One is not a racist song.

The song is about the 60's generation taking over, though exactly what Five to One, One in Five means remains and will always remain a mystery, as Morrison took it's true meaning to his grave.

It MAY mean

Five to One as the ratio of grass smokers to non-grass smokers in Cali.
Five to One is the ratio of whites to blacks
Five to One is the ratio of children of the Nam era to the adults.....

NO ONE knows what Morrison meant.

If you wanna see axl compared to morrison you need to read danny sugermans book

Believe it or not, Jim Morrison is actually still alive. Here is proof:

http://www.rodeoswest.com/

i would love someone to actually ask Manzarek if Axl reminds him of Morisson or not, but from my point of view, you could link anyone to anyone and still find similarities.

They are nothing alike.

Even their reasons for causing shit in concerts aren't the same, Axl is Axl ( no need to go on about whys ) and Morisson was simply a paranoid drug addict.

When Mama Kin says no one knows what Morisson meant, i think he didn't know himself, and when you read his poetry ( very bad btw, i used to own the book) , you see how fucked up and drugged up he was.

At least, axl made sense !

You forgot that both of their careers are dead too.  Atleast Morrison has a valid excuse!!

Both were worldwide Rockstars.

No, he did not, he had fucked up almost every concert and band members didn't want to speak to him anymore and once almost everyone had told him to fuck off, he caught a plane to paris.

he had no excuses..

I think what he meant was that you can't get new music from a dead, deceased (no body on planet Earth, past worm food) ex-human being... :hihi:

Reminds me of the dead parrot skit from monty python :hihi:

No, Jessica, you moron, Morrison's valid excuse for not having a career now is that he is DEAD.  Axl is just crazy and not a good excuse.

The moron is not Jessica. She's far from it. ::)

That's true.

It's like sometimes you're convinced of your daily horoscope that sounds really dead on and then realise you're checking out a wrong star. :yes:

Judging from Jessica's response to my previous post, she's either a morn or illiterate.

On a side note, the surviving members of the Doors have asked Courtney Love to front them on a tour.  No joke!!

All the arrest warrants had something to do with it also :hihi:

Without starting another thread, I am going to see the Doors of the 21st Century this friday with Ian singing. I know they have toured before, has anyone seen them or heard any reviews.

To stay on subject if I get close enough to Manzarek, I'll ask him about Jim compared to Axl. : ok:

I'm not going to bash you, but I think its hilarious that you called someone illiterate right after you misspelled "moron" :rofl:               :peace:

Not the case actually, this from courtesy of Familiarfreak (Dave), webmaster of the Doors official website:

http://messageboard.thedoors.com/index.php?showtopic=24656

"I just got the official word on this. Courtney was asked to perform on VH1 Decades, but her schedule didn't allow it. That's it. Ian Astbury is the lead singer of D21C and always will be. Or as I was just told.. "Ian Astbury is the man.. . period." Hope that clears things up.

-Dave"

Kujo- I've seen The Doors with Ian and it's a helluva show, I was never a big Doors fan but checked them out due to my love of The Cult.? Enjoy.

Would love to see Axl guest with Astbury, Manzarek and Krieger on the VH1 Decades special that Love was asked to participate on.?

That would be something to behold.

EDIT:So far, Perry Farrell has been confimed along with Macy Gray for the VH1 Doors Decades special.

I got the more difficult of the two correct!!

Good, I would hate to see the Doors ruin their image by associating with that whore C Love.  I would pay to watch her shot and that's about it.

Cool. thanks. I've always loved the whole package of the Doors so, obviously, I would love to see Jim but hearing that music by at least half of the band will be really cool. Plus I love the Cult too so I think Ian will kick ass filling in.

Well judging by your post your a moron because you can't follow the board rules.

Just a thought here, how cool would it be to hear Axl and Ian blasting out LA Woman or Roadhouse Blues?

Wishful thinking.. :drool:

I personally don't like covers and am not a big fan of doors but I wouldn't mind the Trent version of The End featuring GN'R.

Am I obsessed? :confused:

Wrong, 5 to 1 was not a racist song. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit. Jim would never have given the media a chance to rake him over the coals. And even the Miami incident wasn't a "tantrum". He had seen a play the night before where the actors took all their clothes off and screamed at the audience "wake up and stop being slaves. All men are not created equal!"


 

Wrong, it was Jim who was attacked and sprayed with pepper spray. He was arrested for being vulgar about it.



You should read more instead of trusting everyone's word. Preferably something from a fellow bandmate or someone who was close to The Doors.

Differences:

Jim and the rest of the band were an absolute unit. Early in their career playing live gigs all facing each other as their symbol of unity. Jim an ego-maniac? How?!!! Because he rebelled like everyone else was doing over the war in vietnam. It just happened to be that The Doors were one of the most popular bands during that time; and thats why he was labeled that. Everything was magnified in the public eye.

Jim's goal was to act almost like a shaman and open eyes, what was Axl's? No similarity there either.

While Jim was so rebelious that he did not want to surrender to any of the "establishments" greed, he did everything in his power to prevent becoming a product.

Can't say the same for Axl. Whatever sells....right? Got to make it perfect for that extra green.....right?

You cannot compare anyone from that time to anyone from this time. Everything was different. Jim ranted about political situations and pleaded with fans to stop being slaves to the government and Axl ranted about Warren Beaty fucking his g/f. ::)

 

I don't think Axl's gotta make it perfect for the extra green, I think he's gotta make it perfect for him. That's who this album is for. He's not taking all this time and putting his energy into it for anyone else. He certainly could have made a ton of money over the years by whoring out his voice. He hasn't. In fact, he's even went the opposite way. Trying to block recordings(GH, Hollywood Rose), and basically kickin back in the shadows.  8) Oh yeah, and Axl is the lizard king.

I don't really see many ways they are alike, but they are 2 of the greatest frontmen ever.  8)

Yeah, and the way he closed gnronline but left only the merch section tells me alot. Gotta make that green, even off of an ex-member(buckethead).

Yeah, and how he gets violent over a man with a camcorder in the crowd. Can't have those free bootlegs floating around. No money to be made there.

That reminds me, if it is "only for him", then why isn't it a solo project? Isn't that contradictory? Was this album supposed to be only for him before the members left?

If this album is only for him, then quit with the "chinese democracy starts now" shit. Until Axl can set aside the ego and dance among the crowd like Morrison did, he is not the lizard king. His best title is "temper tantrum boy".

How do you know that Axl is the one responsible for gnronline closing, and keeping the merch section open?


One in a Million isn't a racist song.  Listen to the lyrics.  Not just the "n" word.  listen to the whole song.

gnronline was basically a promotional tool for the live album that was set up by Interscope. The band never had much input into it. And that's probably the reason why it hasn't been updated in ages.


If you're talking about the St Louis incident, get your facts straight because it was a photo camera, not a camcorder. So I don't see what bootlegging had to do with that. Besides, the problems with St Louis were about much more than a camera issue. That's just the way the media like to portray the event.

wouldnt it make alot more sence to actually explain and go into detail about all the other things you think st.louis was about then just being vague and opening it up to further questions and rants?

 ???

All right maybe they're not actually alike , but at least we can call them two hellraising frontmen

Actually, i had undertstood your trying to be funny, i stated that Morisson didn't need to die, his career was dead as he was still alive !

Oh, i wouldl ove you to say this to my face, because intellectually, i beat many people to it. Bring your homework.

I don't think there are other things, those things were actually mentioned by Axl in several interviews (including in RS I believe), but no one ever bothers reporting that. It's so much easier to pretend it was just a camera issue and Axl went bonkers for no reason.
The guy who had the camera wasn't a poor innocent victim, he was part of a whole gang who had smuggled in glass bottles and knives into the venue, and the security didn't try to stop them because they were accomplices. The gang had been bullying and physically threatening the people in the first rows since the beginning, and basically constantly disrupting the show. The band tried to have security intervene, but of course that didn't happen. So Axl decided to take matters into his own hands. The camera thing was only the last straw. By that time Axl's patience was wearing very thin because of what had happened earlier.

Seeing as to how you havent threatened physical retribution had it he said it to your face what difference does it make if he said it to you in person or online? It was still a remark made to you , as a person .. doesnt matter if it was said out loud or written in text as it still contains the same meaning and you are still left to but reply to him. You wouldnt be able to reply to him any better had he said it to your face. Thus your (to my face) remark makes no sence.  ???

Because insulting someone is very easy online, i bet he would have chickened out if he had been facing me.

I haven't threatened anyone, therefore, do not put thoughts into MY mind ( something i have to obviously remind you of). To me, my english makes sense, but if you want to discuss the whole problem in french, my maternal language, stop in paris for a coffee and i'd gladly oblige.

I've seen axl mention alot of things in interviews. Just because axl said it doesnt make it true in any sence of the word. I'm not saying it isnt true true but to just say "oh theres more to it .. axl said so!" seems a little bit "fan boi-ish" to me.  ???



According to Axl. I dont recall any other band members speaking out about this in depth though. And after watching the concert I didnt see any bottles being thrown onstage? 



Why doesnt any of this stand out on the dvd from the show? I remember one incident where a piece of paper is handed to axl with someones number on it and axl asks if it was worth disrupting the show for ... and this was after a song. I didnt notice any other disruptions other then axl going into the crowd and punching the one guy and leaving. Other wise it was a kickass show , high energy!


I mean I'm not saying axl is a liar but I also dont just take every word out of his mouth as 110% gospel either.

 :peace:

why? it's just as easy to call somebody a moron to their face as it is on a msg board. I do it all the time.


Ummmmmmmm .. that was the whole point of my reply!!!



who's paying?  :peace:

Call me "fan-boi-ish" if you want, but I see no reason for Axl to make up something like that. And I'd rather take his word than the word of journalists who weren't even there, especially considering some of them have an agenda.
Of course you can dismiss Axl's comments about this situation, but then it means you can dismiss any comment about anything by any band member. It's a neverending thing.

I found the RS article I was looking for on the HTGTH website :
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=59

If you don't take Axl's word, maybe you will take the word of some people who were actually in the crowd  :hihi:

." Both the police and Steve Schankman, the president to Contemporary Productions, the concert's promoter confirm that the Saddle Tramps are regulars at arena shows and are indeed known to the venue's security staff but deny that the bikers were causing any problems and say that they hadn't caused problems in the past. However five of the concertgoers interviewed by Rolling Stone, who attended St. Louis area shows regularly, say otherwise. One fan, who asked not to be identified, says: "They always cause problems. I see them at every show. They're always pushing people around. And the thing is, the security guards are intimidated by them. They security guards have never, at least in my experience, gone in and said, 'Listen guys, calm down' " Early in the show, Rose says, another of the bikers, who the promoter says goes by the name of Stump, began bellowing to get Rose's attention. "You have people yelling and screaming during the whole show," says Rose, "but this guy just wouldn't stop, and he was loud - almost as loud as my monitor. He's holding up a card, and I'm like 'Okay, yeah, that?s great.' But he still won't stop yelling."

I recommend everyone to have a look at the whole article. Very interesting read  : ok:

We'll negociate  :hihi:

Yeah. people yelling at a rock concert. wheres the manners?  ???

people "pushing" at a rock concert ... whats the world coming too?

But I see your point , and totally agree that you should be more then welcome to believe what you want. I'm just stating an opinion that other then Rose and these "fans" I havent heard much from anyone else (gnr band members included) that says there was bottles and knives being used by anyone in any capacity.

Some pushing and shoving and yelling at a rock concert , IMHO is very normal. Now taking pics at a GNR show is an obvious no-no ... thats common knowledge.  : ok:

I've never seen so many quotes in my life.

You people are forgetting that Jim is still alive though. Here is more proof. This is a pic of the guy who claims he is Jim Morrison and a pic of him from back in the day overlayed for comparison:

(http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/jim0607a.jpg)

Coincidence? I think not...

I'm sure it wasn't just "pushing" if you see what I mean.

And there's another "testimony" from Duff, albeit second hand :

"Also, other things happened at the St. Louis gig that I wasn't told about until two days after the gig. Duff didn't want me to get excited.

Such as?
Such as Duff getting hit with a bottle twice during the show. Duff knows I would have called the show and he didn't want to be responsible for whatever happened out of that. Duff's attitude is, "I'm a man about things. I got hit with a bottle, big deal." My attitude is that no, you don't allow yourself to get hit by bottles because that encourages it in the future. If someone goes and tells a story that he threw a bottle at Guns N' Roses, three years, five years from now some kid could remember that story he heard at a kegger, and throw at someone else and take them out. I learned this from Lemmy of Motorhead. I have more respect for what Lemmy's gonna tell me about how to run a rock show than some kid on the street going, "That's kinda wimpy that you pulled off." It's like, no, I'm sorry, I listen to people other than you.

That's another interesting article :
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=75

Once again, I'm first in line to not systematically believe what comes out of people's mouth, but in this case I see no reason why all those "explanations" should be bogus.

But , if what is said here is true then axl still didnt know about the bottles until a full two days after the gig.

and again , that is IF what is said there is even true to begin with.

anyways , it's really off topic now .. i just wondered why you didnt state all the facts in the 1st place since you worked your reply in a way that came off as sounded very very positive that other things happened at the concert then what the media put off. I kinda fell under the assumption that you were there going by what you said and was/am rather dissapointed that the "facts" you have are mere quotes from Axl Rose. (who could be lying to cover his ass as much as he could be telling the truth.)

regardless .. axl and jim are kinda similar and jim is still alive and democracy starts now and slash is in axls house or ass or something and everyone will be back this summer with a whole bunch of new songs if we blame canada!

They're both from Indiana.....other than that?  Not too much in common.

They are both a product of their times and those times vary greatly.  Both self-destructive, but in different ways.  Although, they did both strive for and then pissed away their fame. 

Its hard to say that Morrison was from anywhere since he had a military dad but he was actually born in Melbourne, FL, went to FSU for a short time and had lived with some other relatives in the Tampa/St. Pete area for awhile.

Damn, you're so nitpicky it's incredible. He didn't know Duff had been hit with a bottle, it does't mean he didn't see other bottles flying or in the crowd.


Apparently you didn't bother reading the full articles at the links I gave, because there were quotes from other people in them. I don't know what you would consider a "fact" exactly. Most things passed off as facts are taken from people's declarations anyway.
I don't know, maybe if Slash had said that instead of Axl, it would be more believable, because everyone knows Axl is such a goddamn liar  :hihi:

I'd see more similarities between Axl and John Lydon than Axl and Jim Morrison.

I know a fat lot about Jim and I sense (obviously :P) his stout Oedipus complex in his lyrics,  unlike in Axls.


Hum,  I don't think Axl is self-destructive offstage.
They say he doesn't smoke, does daily exercise and keeps his distance with nuisance as far as possible.
sounds Pretty healthy.

You see, it's because of all those stupid persons who always make "pogo" that I always buy seats tickets. I can garantee you that if a guy starts wanting to "pogo" with me I will get really annoyed and he may regret what he did within a second (a good punch in his face). When you go to a concert, you go to listen to music, to support the band and to have fun, it's like a party, you've to be happy, not to "pogo" with brain drunk individues who will ruin your concert. What's the goal? Tell me what's the goal?
For St-Louis, thanks Pandora I didn't know all these details (gang thing, bottles etc..). If I were Axl, I would have done something alike considering the context.

Yep, as i said, Morrison was a ward case who knew nothing but drugs and Axl Rose was fully created from a man called William who had issues at one point of his life and who seems to be fully sorted now.

Anything Morrison is a haze, anything Axl is concise.
Anything Morrison is a craze, anything axl is a phase.

 :smoking:

Axl and John Lydon?  They seem like polar opposites to me. 


I think the way he's damaged his career and near every relationship and friendship in his life is not exactly healthy. 

I thought that comparison was a bit off as well...

Well that comparison was basically like "an Aquarian seems much closer to a Goat than a Scorpion" kinda stuff. It's just comparing the comparison A with the comparison B vaguely.

Still FYI, try this interview of John Lydon '89.
http://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/INTERVIEWS/sounds89.htm


Why? I'd say being surrounded by the people you have no trust in would be deadly unhealthy.

The vicious circle of Co Dependence lies at the root of all evil.

At some point you got to force an end to it through at all cost.

Doesnt really mean he did see any bottles flying around either. All I know is that if I was about to face heavy criminal charges for inciting a riot I'd say whatever it took to get my ass out of the frying pan too. "those mean biker gang people were pushing and yelling and throwing bottles and taking my picture at my rock concert! So I said "fuck that!"  :hihi:




Physical evidence of the "gang members" wielding knives and hitting people with bottles would suffice.  : ok:


nah , I think Slash is one of the biggest liars of all time. Have you ever seen all those "more proof slash is a liar" posts on other forums?  :hihi:

And that "evidence" would be based on what? Pictures? Videotapes? I'm sure you realize how hard it would be to obtain.

hard to obtain?! the band was videotaping everything at that period .. I'm sure there was a camera focused on the audience. and GNR had their own personal photographer also. if things were that out of hand somebody should of documented it on film , no? atleast then axl would had some concrete evidence to bring to court right?

thank you.? : ok:
 anyone who has not read this article about the St. Louis riot NEEDS to read it http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=59

edit:  ah... the article/link has already been cited
glad to see that the board members are reading the articles section  : ok:

allow me another post to get 'back on topic'...

I've actually been reading "Break on Through" the Jim Morrison biography, for the past few days.? Great read.? Descriptions of Jim and accounts of Jim's life and performances have reminded me of Axl often while reading it...? such as the excerpt below.

The Doors Concert at the Hollywood Bowl? - July 5, 1968:

"The Doors had fifty-four amplifiers spread ninety-six feet across the stage producing sixty thousand watts of power.? All eightgeen thousand seats were sold out.? This was their homecoming concert and they wanted it ot be special.

"Steppenwolf opened.? John Kay and company had a big hit with "Born to Be Wild" and they were well received.? The Chamers Brothers ("The Time Has Come"), however, stole the show.? Known as a hard-working stage act, they put their all into it and came off great.? Perhaps too great.? When thier set was over there was definitly a feeling of anticlimax in the air.? The Doors came on and opened wiht "When The Music's Over."? For some reason they decided to extend the keyboard intro a great deal longer than usual.? The ideas was to build the suspense, but the passage went on so long that it became monotonous and the auidence began to get impatient.? By the time Densmore did his drumroll and Morrison his scream, the crowd was already primed for a less than spectacular evening.? Audiences never knew what to expect from The Doors, however, and for a while they waited expectedly - waiting for Jim Morrison to do something.? But he didn't.? He just sood there and sang his heart out.

"A lot of people claim Morrison was great that night.? Few had actually heard waht a powerful range he had, but for some reason Jim got down and sang at the Bowl.? The energy he usually put into his physical movements onstage went into this voice.? Maybe it was because he'd dropped acid just before the show or because Jagger was in the audience or perhaps it was because he was tired of playing the freak.? Whatever the reason, the crowd was caught by surprise.? After the first three of four songs the audience began to get edgy.? Why isn't he doing anything?? Even "Hello, I Love You," The Doors' current big hit didn't seem to pacify them.? Later the audience creid fot "The Crystal Ship" and Morrison shouted back at them and then sang what he wanted to sing.? The crowd seized such moments for all they were worth.? They were desperate for him to be larger than life.? They wanted the myth and not the man.? (underlining mine).

"After another couple of songs including a section of "The Celebration of the Lizar," a few teenyboppers began to scream for "Ligh My Fire."? Onstage The Doors talked among themselves.? Though they were tired of performing thier first hit, they would do it sooner or later int he show anyway.? Why not give the crowd what they wanted?? Seconds later, as the famous intro began, loud cheers broke out all over the Bowl.? People began lighting sparklers and throwing them at the stage.? It was a moment.

(continued)

"But soon the song was over and still the audience waited, waited for something from Morrison that he just wasn't prepared to give.  It was the day after the Fourth of July and the evening was puntuated with leftover firecrackers from self-appointed entertainers in the audience.  At one point some agile outsiders scalled the walls of the Bowl, attracting attention as squds of users converged on them.  One dihard fan even managed to dodge his way right on the stage.  Morrison paid no mind and just kept singing.  It didn't bother him.  In fact, almost nothing bothered him that night.  Morrison was never more opent or more generous with his audience.  He was playful - singing, dancing, joking and reciting poems.  Everything went smoothly, too smoothly for many in the crowd and they became restless.  The impact of "The Unknown Soldier" seemed dissipated.  Instead of being entranced by chaos and surround by passion, love, violence, and death, the audience had been reduced to mere spectators watching a well executed performance which contained nothing of crucial significance.  it was a good show and nothing more.  The mystique had turned mundane.

"The sense of unpredictablity and spontaneity, so importat to the sucess of a Doors concert, was missing.  Apparently Morrison had decided to show what a professional he could be and that was exactly what the audience did not want.  What they wanted was temperament, tension, the feeling that something was about to snap unleasing something horrible and utterly uncontainable.  At the climax of the show when the lights didn't go down during "The End", They didn't want Morrison to keep his cool and go on singing.  They wanted him to scream, make a fuss, or maybe even walk off stage.  If he had they would have screamed for refunds, but they would have understood and they would have been satisfied.  Instead Morrison was not only cool about it, but actually playful . . . joking around.  Joking around during "The End"?  It was unthinkable.  Nevermind that he had probably performed the song a thousand times by then.  He was not only supposed to feel it, but be overcome by emotion and outrage at his own words written long ago when he was a differnt mand in a different world.

"Perhaps the Bowl itself was to blame.  It was a forbidding place, forcing the crowd to keep tis distance and reeking of austerity.  When it was over Morrison left the stage, slumped and exhausted.  He seemed smaller at that moment, almost slight as he walked towward his dressing room, eyes bland, face covered with sweat.  The Doors' concert at the Hollywood Bowl should have been the return of the conquering heros.  It should have been a high point in the career of a local group who had become the number one American rock 'n' roll band.  Instead it was abore.  And to Jim Morrison it clearly showed that another possible escape route from his bizarre and glamours prision had already been sealed off."



I imagine Axl fighting the same expectations.

maybe Jim and Axl  don't have that much in common as i thought they did, but at least i don't start threads lying that i met axl in a resturaunt or i walked in a bar where someone says he works for a record company and heard chinese democracy is done. I suggest the next person that says he met axl ,have proof by having a pic taken and post it on here

damn skippy!  : ok:

AAAAH FUCK MORRISON!!! Overrated fucker, dont get me wrong I dig the doors but that fucker couldnt project if his life depended on it, Although I guess this is a fair opinion, cause u could say Morrison was the Axl Rose of his day. Cept Axl's still breathing.  :peace:

Reason for Axl to lie:

What he did was borderline incitement and he knew it. A band holds a show at your venue, later in the evening, a riot breaks out. Is there anyone to blame and possibly charge? Yes, the man who jumped into the crowd and got violent with one of them resulting in a fucked-up situation.

The whole "there's more to it" hoopla was simply a way of covering his ass(or trying to). The one with the biggest reason to lie was Axl!

Wow, you were there.

Then you may as well give us the reason for Axl to jump into the crowd and drag himself into violence, perhaps?

It's been said before (and I'll venture it may even have been said AGAIN after your post, in this thread) but GnR, the band, have nothing to do with gnronline.com, the website.? That site is owned, operated, and maintained by Universal/Interscope/Geffen.? So get angry at the record company on this one...not Axl.?

And St. Louis was more about security, and their lack of competance, than it was about a PHOTO camera held by some guy in the crowd.  The picture taker was the straw that broke the camels back, and just happens to be the media's favorite "scapegoat" for the incident.

Yeah uh huh, it's more reasonable to believe there is a worldwide media conspiracy against Axl than to believe that the guy well known for his anger problems simply over-reacts. ::)

:Sarcasm off:

-As for gnronline, how do you know who was/is responsible?
-As for the bootlegs, he's a perfectionist. He doesn't like lousy quality recordings of his material. I don't think it's that unusual for an artist of any kind to only want to show their finished, polished work. That being said, this was only a camera, in this case. As was said, many other things were going on.
-If you don't think that this is Axl's baby, wait until it's released(if). It will either be considered a great success, and Axl will get all the credit, or if not, he'll get all the blame.