Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In the last year or so there have been several excellent new albums released.  New ones by U2, Radiohead, NIN, SOAD, Audioslave, and with the Foos and White Stripes on the way.  Have these new albums raised the bar for Axl?  Especially, NIN and SOAD because Axl is a fan of both.  Does this add pressure to succeed? 

What do you guys think?

almost all of  those bands suck  ;D

Not sure if it raises the bar or not, could be I guess. 

I think any shift in a current musical trend or direction quite possibly could make him do a rethink on whatever material he's working on at that particular time.

Someone says the same thing every year.  :no:

If Axl went back and played with stuff every time he heard something new and cool. it would take like 13 years to get a new album. ::)

Yeah, aren't we lucky that hasn't happened....

Yeah we'll strike it lucky 8)

When the band has made the "new and cool" of their own...Never fear!

I don't think so, the only people that the bar has been raised for is the fans.. I can't say on the bands because I never liked most (foo fighters, nins, soad) u-2 could release any old piece of shit by now and it would sell good.. U-2 is the only real rock stars left, well in the mainstream that sell millions of albums..

Some of the new album releases this year are so good, that when you hear Axl's 'new material', you know unless he has been keeping something in reserve, he has a bit of a problem. :peace:

axl is the bar

sorry, but most of those bands represent everything that is WRONG with rock these days...radiohead - gay, nin - crap, soad - gay and crap, audioslave - boring...

The bar definitely will be raised this fall as far as shows go, NIN and Queens Of The Stone Age just confirmed a North American arena tour with a 3rd act forthcoming.

That's one a helluva rock show...:yes:

Great albums are released every year, the bar hasn't been raised, Axl's making this album so it's upto his standards and the best in his eyes.  There's always successful bands you have to compete against, always pressure these new albums are nothing special apart from Nine Inch Nails With Teeth but still like i said you get great albums each year...who gives a fuck....what's he gonna do...start re-recoring the album just because he thinks Radiohead have a better album than him...not likely.

The hype for CD is soooo HIGH there is going to be no way Axl can p-lease everyone.  It would of been huge in 94 after the UYI, it would of been huge in 99 when OMG came out and it would of been huge in 2002, now the hype just keeps growing and the pressure is on Axl but he will never be able to please everyone. He could have an album on par with the Beatles White Album or Sgt Peppers and it still wont live up to its Hype.  I love what I have heard from bootlegs but no matter what Axl's new album wont live up to the hype and mystery he has created for everyone, espially sense there is so many people who are out there wanting to hate on it.

I'll be surprised if democracy is better then greenDays "American Idiot" album (not the song , the whole album)

IMHO that was easily the best rock album I've heard in the last couple years.

Axl hasn't lef
Actually, Axl hasn't left the bar... hence the lack of any concerte release date in sight :)  Hehe.  Only kidding.  Only having some fun with all of ya's :)

Naaa, those bands have probably lowered the bar. None of those who you mention have released a groundbreaking album this year (or last) - just merely echoes of a glorious past.
U2 - 'How to...' was ok, but noting close to 'Actung baby'
Radiohead - they just can't figure how to get past 'Ok Computer'
NIN - oh man, that industrial sound was so cool and progressive in 1991, now it sounds as out-dated as the Spice girls.
SOAD - Good album, but it seems that they drained their idea-tank on 'Toxicity'
Audioslave - Not as good as Soundgarden, and definitely not as good as RATM
Foos - Can't expect them to beat Nirvana
White stripes - Nice wrapping, empty can.

The competition is not stiff at the moment, his 'bar' is ADF/UYI.

I tend to agree with your general premise but for vastly different reasons.

GNR is not thought of in the same scope/realm of bands like Audioslave, Foos, SOAD, White Stripes, NIN etc.

A more accurate barometer would be Aerosmith and Motley, both much more closely associated with GNR than any of the newer acts mentioned.? That being the case, I have no doubt when and if CD gets released it
will be far superior to any new material released from either of the 2 above, at least that's my hope.? It remains to be seen if GNR will have the same kind of recent success Aerosmith or Motley have enjoyed as a live act but I suspect that will take care of itself if the material is good.

As for your quote above, I think you got it half right.? The bar is AFD.

Other than U2, all the other bands are crap. Since GN'R doesn't sound like U2 anyway, the bar still is AFD.

Man I just busted a gut reading that,thanks.

most of those bands are not rock bands. it's not their fault that rock music is in a slump - they make their own music and do it, with varying degrees of success, very well.

As for the bar having risen, i don't think it really makes that much of a difference. The music side of cd appears to be pretty much complete.

I like the SOAD album.  Other thna that I couldn't care less.  Besides with the music these days the bar is 1 inch from the floor.  Lastly, I could give a shit what other fans/bands think of GNR.  So who really cares.

As far as I like it... ;D

I thought they were like mostly rock groups in some degree...just not hard rock bands. :o

The labeling buisiness sucks.... :-\

Who says that this new GNR album is going to be a "conventional" rock album?  I think that some of the people on this board are going to be in for a rude awakening when this album comes out.  Long gone are the days of AFD and UYI.  Axl's a reported fan of NIN, SOAD, Fiona Apple, and the Chili Peppers.  LIke it or not these bands may have an impact on the CD sound. 

No problem! And when the day comes that you can write a song on par with "jesus of suburbia" or "homecoming" let me know and I'll put you on my list of favorite artists!

I'm assuming you did actually listen to the whole american idiot album right?

nin's new album's crap.. its so whiney.. makes me think of an emo lil 13 year old girl..

i'm a fan of SOAD.. they're one of the only metal bands around that actually have some melody and thought in their songs.. they're great but doesnt mean jack when compared to gnr..

I didn't care for the new NIN or the Queens of the Stone Age efforts.

American Idiot is some kind of new classic, incredible.

UYI is definitely the bar. GNR never did a followup for these albums, and since Axl hasn't done a real album since, he will be held to that standard.

No

Audioslave's album is poor. NIN' s album is mediocre. The new Foo's album is hit and miss. White Stripes' is average. SOAD will sell but it is bubblegum rock

U2's album was good, but it was a 2004 release

Wow, pretty harsh words for Nail's, I couldn't disagree more.

I would be happy if whatever Axl releases has half the bite "With Teeth" does.

I bet Mysteron  loves new Oasis "Don't believe the truth" like nes. :P

No accounting for tastes. I've already had more listens to "with teeth" than to "Atomic"  I got in Jan.

I love With Teeth however the lyrics are really pretty bland and repetitive to Reznor's other records. He just beats the subject matter to death. It is, overall though, a nice tight record. That being said, I will be extremely disappointed if Axl can't top that record in quality and from a sales perspective. Same with the U2 record-at least on the quality side :-\.

Wow I'm impressed, Mysteron, you have the ability to hear into the future.  How can you even comment on the new Foo Fighters and White Stripes when they haven't been released yet?  So tell us, oh powerful one, what does Chinese Democracy sound like?....dipshit!

No need for such a defiant manner on every bloody occasion. ::)
Besides I'm pretty sure Mysteron has heard the albums he mentioned.

Madagas I wouldn't worry about that- well at least on the quality bit.
I know I'm getting little bored with the teeth.
It's true that NIN beats the subject to death.  Trent must be an adherent of Eric Satie, I reckon.   
As I said many times I'm capricious and still enjoy listening to most of the new GN'R songs.

SYSTEM OF A DOWN is great, hard rock! Although the lyrics make no fuckin sense(at least to me!  : ok:) but thats the type of shit you can just rock out to!

Audioslave NOT a fan , loved RAGE but Cornell doesnt fit here!

NIN.. will forever be a fan of Reznor despite his harsh words at times, NOT as good as Downward Spiral but then again WHAT IS

NONE of these bands have reached the proverbial "bar" set by AFD and UYI so speaking of it is nonsense!, when AXL decides to re-raise this bar you speak of YOU and everyone else will know it!

"What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems"

i'll be very happy if it's on par with American Idiot - the best rock album since Soundgardens 'Superunknown' IMO ( Elephant by the White Stripes being another notable rock album in recent years)

SOAD was great to see live, the music is mediocre.  Radiohead and Green Day are legends.  Truly great bands and good albums everytime.

To me some of the bar is set by Velvet Revolver.  VR have made a solid album (although not perfect) and have been touring nonstop.  Out of all the bands I have seen in my life, VR had to be the best rock band out of them all.  GNR needs to regain the touring aspect because the 2002 tour had to be the most boring event I've ever been at.

Budweiser, I agree with you on the 2002 tour. The setlist was very boring. Too much AFD and not enough UYI. To me, the only highlight of the 2002 tour was the small number of new songs that GNR played. I think on the next tour Axl should do something similar to what John Fogerty did in the mid 80's: Only play the new album. Forget about the classics. Fans didn't get pissed at Fogerty for not playing CCR hits, so I think Axl should try doing the same.

He should try and do what greenDay has done quite a few times recently , they've played the whole american idiot album front to back live .. axl outta play "democracy" in full , front to back. Or will he have that much confidence in every song on the album as greenday does with american idiot?

I heard the White Stripes at a listening party a short while ago, and I am currently doing some work with the Foo Fighters. Is that ok with you?  ::)

Not a fan of Oasis. The NIN album is ok. I just find the songs (that I like) get tiresome after a while.

Everyone is different though  :hihi:

Yes. Good albums :P

Axl could put out an album of snooring and beat those

Yeah, that's very cool, what kind of work? ?

I will be very very very very very upset if Chinese Democracy ISN'T on par with absolutely ANYTHING Green Day have ever done.

I like "Civil War"
But political music?
Pretentious to me.

I think protest songs
Are overly simplistic
Almost all the time.

There are albums like
"American Idiot"
That have good music

And sound I enjoy
But are lyrically pablum
Not my cup of tea.

It's easy to say
"I am for or against this
There's no need for facts."

Axl, oftentimes,
Bares soul and deep emotion
And means more to me.

Just my opinion,
I respect yours, too, of course,
So please, "Don't Damn Me."


Splash


/Mike


]

American Idiot isnt simply some anto war type album to say the VERY least. The lyrics all tie together every song into a story that involves hope , struggle , illusion , addiction , despair and hope ... it's pretty easy to dismiss greenday based on earlier work by the band but this new album is far and above anything the band has done before.

Again , I'll be surprised and happy if democracy has any songs on it of the caliber of jesus of suburbia and/or homecoming.

And if you are dissing american idiot without even listening to the album in full then shame on you. ignorance is nasty.

I've heard the album
And I greatly enjoyed it!
I'm just subjective.

/Mike

Anyone who thinks NIN is crap can suck a fart from my asshole.

Listen to With Teeth in 5.1, then say that. If you still think so, then put down the disc and just admit that music isn't for you anymore.

This alone has totally raised the bar. On the basic level, the production quality and crispness, fidelity, low levels, and the overall soundstage, far exceeds anything coming from any of these bands mentioned. The music on this album is great, and if it doesn't win some awards for album of the year, then it will be a crime.

Its time to be cutting edge, and Chinese Democracy better be on the forefront. GNR dvds have been insulting and CD needs to erase some of the mistakes that have been coming from the GNR camp (no matter how few and far between they have been).

There is no excuse for Beatles music (reissued, remastered) to sound better, and make better use of technology, than a brand new product.

Of course music is the most important thing, but if its dated, it won't make the impact it deserves. NIN latest release not only appears in the typical music mags, but are also featured in sound and vision, because of its use of technology (the dual-disc 5.1 sound, I talked about before). Its something special, as Chinese D needs to be respectfully.

Yea the bar has been raised. And if you don't think so, you need to get your ears checked.

I have to agree, I haven't taken "With Teeth" out of the player since I bought it, pure genius.

Reznor's single vision and focus never cease to amaze me.

I've always thought Axl would have loved to have a Reznor like existence. The Wizard behind the curtain
persona, I just don't know if he has the creative know how or resolve to ever be the guy.  His best work has always been done with a creative foil..

i honestly think Axl would be injoying some of the music out today, but i dont think he would be out there gettin' albums to hear his opponantes :-\

but this isnt the game, the game is to get the fuckin' record company to stop being fuck wits and having mediocre songs and timing for radio play n' all that bullshit.!!!!

Where have our epic songs gone, cut into fuckin' 2 because of these pricks. This n' all that kind of crape is what i think is the? main battle with Axl and Geffen or whoever the fuck he is dueling it out with!!!!!


N' the music industry was never the same.............

then...........the follow up 8) : ok: :peace: ;D :D ;) :o

Falcon, that was one of your best posts ever!! I completely agree with your Reznor/Axl comparison. Although I like Axl MUCH more than Trent, I dont think Axl could ever do the things that Reznor is capable of. As the years go by with nothing from Axl, it becomes apparent that without some sort of genius helping him, he is just incapable of taking a stand and writing something thats brilliant and cutting edge. I have nothing against Axl. He's my favorite singer of all time. There will NEVER be another one like him. He was the voice of genius, but not genius himself. He needs extreme talent to back him up. Which he had from 87-91.

excuse me, i believe THE extreme talent belongs to this era boy!! : ok: 8)

i see what you're saying but i'd much rather have a guy singing about corrupion rather than how his girlfriend left him..

I highly doubt Axl wants to be like Reznor. In reality, Axl has had that behind the curtain personaility for the past 11 yrs. Im pretty sure Axl is proud of what he has accomplished with the old band and how they were and what they stood for. ANd Im sure Axl is comfortable with what he is doing for the past decade and how he is percieved.

Just because the guy likes different kinds of music doesnt mean he wants to be like them. If Axl wasnt curious about other types of music he wouldnt be Axl and the music he takes part in wouldnt be as good.

Falcon, I see absolutely no genius in any of the lyrics on With Teeth-outside of Right Where It Belongs. In fact, it is really very elementary poetry with every lyric expected and predictable-not to mention regurgitated from all prior Nails records. I will agree the bar has been raised on a sound and production level. The guy is a tech head. Axl most certainly is not on that level. Now to the focus part of your statement-The Fragile was focused? You have to be kidding me. It was just as much a mess as the Illusions. Part genius-part should have never been released. Finally, I will agree Reznor is a more complete and self sufficient artist than Axl, but that does not mean that the products he has released are any better than the products Axl has released. In fact, I would call it about even-assuming Chinese comes out. Let's hope Rose uses With Teeth as an example for sound and focus (limiting the tracklist to a tidy 12 songs). But again, if Rose can't top this lyrically and diversification wise, this boy will be highly disappointed. :peace:

To a degree, maybe. ?That said, he doesn't have the musical output/respect/perception a guy like Reznor does over the 11 years so he's actually "just behind the curtain", Wizard status pending.


I doubt he's at all comfortable with the way he's perceived at this point in time, the general publics last look at him in 02 wasn't exactly well received, tons of negativity in general about his look, failed tour etc...


Understood.

But...

By all accounts he's very particular and apparently has the final word in all things GNR, much like a Reznor type, albeit without the ability to put his vision together as a single entity.

That's you opinion and you're entitled to it.


I never mentioned "The Fragile"..

Falcon, you talked about him being a focused artist. The Fragile is a part of his work and is not very focused! Now, I'm nitpicking of course. AS far as his lyrics go, the consensus critical analysis and PERCEPTION is that his lyrics are very predictable and cover the same subject matter (a theory to which I subscribe). I am just using your perception argument that constantly comes up when you describe Axl and how he is perceived. Remember, you are the one that seems to believe perception is reality! Just kidding, but you do use that argument ALL the time. :yes:

Doesnt have the respect? You act as if Reznor is Gods gift to music. Reznor is great and so is Axl. As for respect..Axl doesnt get respect? Look at any rock countdown list. You'll see GNr or Axl at the top of almost all of them. When Brian May praises Axl, what do you call that. Axl has gotten tons of "respect" over the years....

Is Axl happy with how hes percieved nowadays...I doubt it. But that doesnt mean hes not comfortable. Of course he wants to be looked upon as more of a positive. But Axls a big boy. He understands hes made his own bed. Im pretty sure hes not too worried though. Hes living his life and making the music he wants to make. If he has to take a few punchline jokes during the wait im sure hes ok with that.


Hes had the same attitude pre Reznor. SO maybe Reznor is the Axl type? Reznor and Axl have different methods of working. Axl is a frontman of a band trying to steer the ship. Reznor is a solo artist steering his own ship. If it was announced on this board that none of the material on CD originated from the new members and it was all Axl, half the peopel here would go crazy and say ?its not a band yada yada yada. Axl and Trent might be similar on some levels but they are different on others.

Lets not forget Axl helped NIN get more into the mainstream by letting him open for GNr back in the day. Lets not forget Axl liked NIN before they got huge. My point is Axl has an ear for good things. It doesnt mean he wants to imitate a particular genre...he just isnt close minded and lets all kinds of things/music inspire him so that he could push his own music...heres a great quote for you that sums it up.....

I don?t enjoy being imitated; I?d rather inspire than be imitated. If we can inspire some people to take it to the next step, -Axl Rose

why does everyone love trent reznor..? I think he is a good singer but nothing to get bent over.. I heard the newest single played on the radio and it bored the hell out of me..

As for cd I never had high expectations when I first heard about it during the oh my god era, but I have such a higher expectation now because of all the artists that worked on it and all the tweaking we have heard about and the fact it has taken so long.. Otherwise a good solid album would have been sufficent as long as touring followed.. My biggest concern is if it will ever come out.. I am to the point where I feel like it never will.. When you read tommy joined in 98, robin in 97 it makes you say how can they not have anything but Oh My God out?

I didn't say that.? I said not respected/perceived in same way as Reznor.?
Do you see Trent getting lampooned on SNL, comedy Central and whatnot?
I didn't think so.

Hardly.?

Absolutely highly influential and resposible for bringing industral music to the masses.? A definite visionary.


I've GNR atop a few good lists, I've seen Axl on some very unflattering lists as well...


Didn't he lash out at Conan in '02?? Hardly "OK" with it.

Yes they are, and it is my opinion Axl would enjoy a Reznor like perception.? Just speculation.


Well, so did I.?


That's good sentiment, shared by many artists I'm sure.

Thats because Reznor will never be the public figure Axl is or was. Axl is an easy target, especially when he makes things easy for people. People dont make fun of Reznor on those shows not because they "respect" him but because they could care less.

As the saying goes...they dont boo the nobodys
Lashed out? Please go back to the tape. It was a joke. He was laughing and smiling as he did it. It was in good fun. Not some nasty rant.
Again, Im sure Axl, like any other human being doesnt want to get mad fun of etc, but that doesnt mean it bothers him. I would bet he laughs at half the stuff thats said about him.

Yep and Im sure that is Axls approach to making music. And it might be everyones approach but only a select few are able to make or do  something inspiring.

people lampoon Slash, Mick and Keith, Kurt and Courtney, Madonna....generally speaking, ICONS!

Rationalization...


Another...


Never saw the tape, although the fact remains he even acknowledged O'Briens unkind words shows a serious case of rabbit ears...

Whether one perceives the lyrics good or not on With Teeth is cool, just know the story behond them. Reznor is said to have taken the words from poetry fans have written to him over the years. Yea that is a little strange, but there is something fundementally cool as hell about that too. If you don't see it, or don't want to see it, that is your problem.

I will argue the fact that an artist can express himself, his emotions and stories, that he wants to tell just as well through his music as another might with their words. Stories can be illustrated too. And I have always felt that NIN and Trent was more about the music and the sounds. While some singers just want you to be clearly able to hear their words and their poetry, Trents voice is clearly also an instrument used to ad another layer and sound like a guitar does. His voice is easy on the ears and sometimes his words will also mean something when you are listening.

There is a swagger to With Teeth that can't be denied. And whether the lyrics are his own, or they are from poetry written to him by fans, they are just one layer to the music. Its not all encompassing like it is with say, Bob Dylan. And certaintly Axl is a great lyricist. Its one of my favorite things I have always dug about Axl. But he is no Dylan. So things need to be put into perspective to when you want to compare an artists words.


I am saying the bar has been raised musically, and from a technology standpoint, with NIN With Teeth.

You the man Buddha..I can live with that...especially the Dylan drop (considering he is my absolute favorite artist). Thus, lyrically, for me, Dylan raised the bar so high that all else pales in comparison. Listen, I like Reznor's lyrics, really very similar to Axl's. Straight forward, honest, and heartfelt. But, genius, no-either of them. I'm just point-counter pointing Falcon! With Teeth is simply great, but Axl won't be measured, ultimately, against anyone but himself/the old Gnr. :hihi:

Personally, I've been disappointed with the new offerings from the Foo Fighters, White Stripes, System of a Down, and Nine Inch Nails.

I can't slam the Foo Fighters or System of a Down because I'm just not a fan. In terms of the White Stripes and NIN, however, the new songs are a bit weak. "Blue Orchid" sounds like it's really lacking, and not merely because it's stripped down. It feels as though minimal effort was put into making it... catchy tune, but I don't expect it to be lasting.

Nine Inch Nails is a completely different story altogether. After listening to the new album, I'd have to say that there are only two songs on the album worth listening to... and one of them (the first track) reminds me of mid-70s "Rubberband Man" Spinners-type stuff.

Pertaining to the bar? It's going to be compared to AFD, UYI, and Velvet Revolver. I can easily see the album doing well in Chicago; after according to a few sources, when it's released at some of the local places (e.g. Rolling Stones Records) there's going to be a <i>very</i> large crowd waiting outside on that Monday night for the midnight release. But this is besides the point... ?the new songs from RIR and other 2002 tour show bootlegs are excellent.

he didn't lash out at him.. I was at msg if that's what you are speaking of.. Nothing like a paris 92 warren beaty, or st louis 91 with the nelson brothers :peace:

The bar of the thread goes up and down?

I think NIN lyrics are intended to be like that.  affectation n rhetoric are eliminated from them.　

To put it in an extreme way, NIN is sorta minimal compact while GN'R is quite a maximalist.
Monotone beauty vs full Technicolor.

back to the point of this post,
So you think Axl needs Trent style creative foil to support him?
The Wizard behind the curtain persona for a band reminds me of Malcolm Mclaren ( :-\) or Brian Epstein or the like.
Yeah it might be interesting if Mr Reznor and Mr Rose were to work together. It would be as surreal as drawing a picture on acid.
 
But like Clinton mentioned, for now he has artistic talent like Robin (and Chris?) on his side. Still unknown quantity they suit better. Let's wait n see.

As I said in the other thread I wish GN'R to have a long time (friendly) musical competitor or two, which foil GN'R and GN'R vice versa.

No, more of a guitar player who shares the same vision.  Let's hope he's found that with his current
players.

I think a guy like Trent might be a bit too much.

Agreed. David Bowie wanted to collaborate with Trent once and they did. But Reznor wound up doing all of the music himself. I don't see how Rose and Reznor could ever team up on a project. One of them would wind up saying "fuck this!"

ditto

except for the "and one of them (the first track) reminds me of mid-70s "Rubberband Man" Spinners-type stuff.
" part... ??? :hihi:

btw, what did your sorces tell ya? :smoking: