Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I emailed Tommy Stinsons manager asking for confirmation that Tommy had recently worked with Paul Westerberg again (I just couldn't believe it might actually be true  ;D) The article about Tommy/Paul was posted a while back saying they recorded a song for a new movie called 'Elizabethtown'. Here's the reply:


Thought some people might like to know - I found it interesting that she said 'anything I have read has been misinformation'. I just wanna know where I can hear the song  :'(  :rant:

You'll hear it next year.  :hihi:




/jarmo

This is nothing. Tommy recorded a song with Paul big deal.
Its just like dizzy recoded a few songs with Josh Todd. It doesnt mean Dizzy is quitting gnr to join Josh todds new band or buckcherry, just like tommy is not quitting gnr to join bacck up with paul.

Who knows what will come of it, buts it's absolutely nothing like Dizzy recording with Josh Todd.

The 'Mats have a rabid following craving for a reunion and Westerberg and Stinson have a long history that will tie them together forever.

Last time I checked, the Dizzy and Josh collaboration weren't/isnt/won't cause the stir Paul and Tommy have/will.

Tommy already said he would not do a reunion with Paul, Tommy also said his loyalty is with Axl and gnr. Case closed.

I wasn't speaking of the possibility of Tommy reuniting with Paul or his loyalty GNR, I was commenting on your poorly thought out analogy, comparing Tommy/Paul to Dizzy and JT.

I didn't say anything about a re-union  >:(

All I said was the information regarding Elizabethtown is untrue and their is no date to hear the song yet.

It was only poor in your opinion but my point was valid none the less.

Never say never.

The longer CD fails to be released the more likely we'll see the Tommy and Paul consider a mini 'Mats reunion (even if its just a few shows).

Point is, he wont quit gnr to do mats full time again.

Dave, I love how your're always making these definitive statements because someone said he would or wouldn't do something. You want to say Tommy said he'd never do a Mats reunion that's one thing but to say it would never happen just because Tommy said it wouldn't, as if that's the final, definitive word, & things & circumstances don't change, is pretty dumb. You never fuckin' learn. You've been doing shit like that for years & you've ALWAYS been proven wrong in the long run. If I had to guess, I'd say, regardless of what Stinson said, you'll see the Mats on stage again & touring before you see Axl & co.

I would have to agree with that. I don't think any of them would want to do the 'Mats full time ever again. As far as reckless, drug addled behavior goes they were the alternative rock counterpart to early GnR.   :hihi:

Hardly.

Equating a one off collaboration such as Reed and Todd's to 2 artists such as Westerberg and Stinson who have a long, storied past together is just silly.

I think tommy reuniting with westerberg for an album and tour is a definite 50/50 chance compared to GNR releasing an album and touring. He said he he wouldnt have anything to do with paul long ago, and has also said many other things.......things change.

Tommy already said he would not do one. How hard is that to understand? So as of right now Tommy would not do one. I love people like you that claim shit to stir up things. Just go by what? Tommy said, and he said he would not leave gnr to reunite with Paul. And I am curious how I have always been proven wrong in the long run? I mearly state what has been said by the band members at the time they say it.?


The fact is as of right now Tommy wont quit gnr to tour with Paul.
The other fact is you like to make up things and claim things are true that contradict with band members say.
Lets see who to believe, what tommy says or what  you claim.
That is a hard one.

Tommy has said a lot of things. He also said that Westerberg had blown any chance....since then he has recored a song with him. Put that in perspective, imagine if Axl had recorded ONE new song with Slash.

Point being, we have no real news as to wether GNR is functioning and as some point this man will wanna move on, so the possibility is VERY real.

You of all people should know by know that GNR band member say one thing then are later let down....so plans change. Id say it's a backup plan for tommy, and may be a 50/50 bet.

I just love bashers, I sometimes wonder why people like you even post here. Oh I know just to stir the pot and make up stuff.
Months ago it was Finck is quitting, then it was tommy is quitting, then again finck, then brain, and now tommy again  :-\

poor predictable dave.

Ilove bashers.

Oh people like you make me laugh etc etc


Im a GNR fan, not a hater.....just a realistic one.

Dave do u recall saying with absolute confidance that GNR was gonna beat VR to the punch??...Do you recall quoting every positive comment from Tommy, Dizzy and Aunt Ger as to CD's release??...remember being proven wrong EVERY time??

Remember when AXL stated that hopefully he would have news regarding CD's release in the months after bucketheads departure??

I could go on for 10 pages....get the gist.

Stop quoting the band members cos so far you are about 3 for 500

Im not a hater, frustrated yes, but the possibility of Tommy rejoining Paul LONG after saying it was a no go (remember he RECENTLY ) recorded a song with him....is a REALISTIC possibility.

Think about it..if Paul is offering Tommy an iron clad tour and album and Axl is still dithering....as a musician which would you chose??

Like I said, they claimed the album was going to be then it got pushed back for some reason or another. The fact is, they still said it.? I also said that Robin didnt quit when people like you were claiming he quit, and guess what? Robin did quit. The same can be said for Tommy when months ago people were claiming he quit, guess what he didnt quit?
Again when people said Fortus quit to go to NIN, and I said, it was bullshit, guess what it was bullshit. Then again when people like? you claimed brain was gonna quit, and I said he wasnt, again I was right.?

so you can claim what ever you want but all we have to go on is what the band members say, no bashers like yourself who keep hoping the band falls apart, so y ou can bash axl yet again.

So if asked who to believe, a band member or someone like you, the answer is simple. So bash all you want and stir the pot, its really ok, its just pathetic that you come to this board to start shit.

And guess what I can quote all the bullshit lies that I have said were not true and they tured out not true. For that people like you are 1/100000. And that is just the album getting pushed back.

Regardless how likely or unlikely to happen a Tommy Mat reunion might be, Tommy is unlikely to leave GN?R unless otherwise asked by the leader. As Dave said earlier.
Why? No point in it.

Exactally, Tommy stated before he cant wait for CD to drop bc he knows how huge its going to be, and he loves touring with gnr. Why would he go back with a guy he cant stand and didnt get along with in the past? Plus he is getting paid by Axl to do his solo thing while waiting for the album to drop. If he was to quit gnr, he would A) prob get sue by Axl, B) not get paid anymore for doing this solo thing and waiting for the album, and C) not get to see all lhis had work he put into CD pay off.

He is going to throw all that away to tour small clubs and tour with a guy he hates.
yes that makes so much sense.

Simple.

At some point logic says he has to move on.

There are 2 very good reasons why he may go back to Paul...temporarily or otherwise.

Tommy has  a HUGE emotional investment in the Mats....these are the songs he wrote and played as he grew up, they defined him....and his brother who passed on would be a huge emtional thing for him.

There is a big possibility that noone can deny that even a Mats reunion may not hinder Axl releasing CD....hell they coulda done a full album and world tour since and it wouldnt have postponed anything.

Dave n co......not everything has to be about world domination or something being HUGE. Tommy still catches a bus. Tell me what is closer to his natural style...Mats or GNR??

In 10 yrs time will Tommy still be waiting thinking 'well ive put in so much effort, cant leave now??"

Im not saying it's inevitable at all...just a possibility, and if you cant concede that Tommy has some legit reason to feel ripped of and that even a small reunion with a former partner in music is impossible (remember he RECORDED a song with the guy recently..........gaurantee you woulda said this was impossible not long ago)....

Then you are deluded. Plus you have ignored the points Ive made in previous posts, not answered one thing.

What dont you get. Until tommy says there is a possiblity he would go back with Paul then he is not going back to the mats. Is that really so hard to understand? I have answered your points just fine but you ignore what Tommy has said. So oh well. There is no use in talking in circles, so until tommy says, he might tour again with Paul there is nothing else to discuss.

You ignored that your quoting of band members has almost without exception been followed by the opposite.

Tommy hasnt said NO to Westerberg recently, quite the opposite. Answer me this, Is it at all possible that Tommies position may...I said MAY have softened and he MAY...I said MAY have become more open to the idea due to the lack of activity in GNR ??

Taking into consideration he has recently enterered dialogue with the guy and actually RECORDED a song with him??

Now be honest...Im not saying it will happen, but is it a possibility at all or not?? 

answer me this Dave

6 months ago...If someone said that Tommy would go and record a NEW song with Westerberg, would you have admitted that as a possibility??

Disco learn to read. I answered that. I said with the acception of the album getting pushed back nothing the members have said has been opposite. Like I said, people like you claimed that tommy was quitting a few times, claimed that robin was quitting a few times, claimed Fortus quit to join NIN, and claimed that Brain quit, and I said all those were bullshit because they all said they are still in the band. And guess what NONE of them have quit. So how didnt I answer your question again?

Ok people like me.

Fair enough, lose a point so try n lump me in with other people....lame.

I have said that it IS a POSSIBILITY that some members will leave...and IF the album isnt released its an INEVITABILITY that some will. That cant be up for debate.

My point is, if CD has no release date in the near future why is it impossible for Tommy to rejoin an old musical companion??..He has recorded a song with him ferchrissakes...why not more??

Imnot saying it's gonna happen....just a possibility, and u cant handle that.

So what. In that case he can do that still being in GN'R.

Tommy's said reunion would obviously be for money.
So, with whomever the reunion, if any, wouldn't be more than a side job for the (long) interval. 
Whatever happens, I reckon, Tommy won't really leave GN'R unless otherwise asked by the leader. His heart is with GN'R. There's the accomplished fact that he already made new GN'R music with the other members.

Are you disagreeing with me or Dave?? it's hard to tell.

Im not saying he is leaving GNR...if the album has no forseeable release , sure why not, he can always come back as Finck did. But I see it as a very distinct possibility that he can have both....and if Axl cant get his shit together then he hasnt thrown away a cool possibility.

Dave says in one breath...why would he go back to someone he didnt like (hello..he already has recorded a song with this person)...then next thing says anyway Axl would sue him if he left. So why stay with someone who is happy to sue you for following your thing.....nice guy huh??

I dont think Axl would sue...and if he did Id banish myself from this site, id be so disgusted.

Leave what? GnR has not done squat since 02 that can be verified. Maybe these guys went back after the tour and recorded some more stuff, but even so, nothing is happening with GnR. The only information we have that is legit is that the label cut Rose loose. Based on this, and no information to refute it from Axl, you can only assume it's true. Which it probably is. Dizzy, the "last original member" *chuckle* is out on the road constantly, one guy is touring with Nena? (WTF??_) and Tommy is recording songs with Paul and touring and recording and releasing albums.

Until CD drops there is no GnR.  Everyone is off doing their own thing, bucket split, the drummer hasn't even SPOKEN to Axl in over a year, the tour 3 years ago flamed out and there has not been one peep from Axl, just some BS from his manager "its the greatest, Axl is finishing it up, this is the year, wonk, wonk, wonk" same shit different year, hell different decade.

Stop arguing about whether or not someone is quitting a band that doesn't exist.

I believe all the current members have a lot invested in CD, emotion being the main thing.Some people believe this is Axls solo gig, i dont believe that. I believe that this band is tighter than some think.The band members know how important it is to get the album perfect even if it is time consuming
Tommy=long haul
Robin = long haul
Richard = long haul
Dizzy = ever loyal to Axl
Brain= undecided
Pittman = undecided

This is a band that when they return all the doubters will finally see what rock has been missing

Mick.

Bravo, a rare intelligent post. Couldnt have said it better.

Tommy wont quit gnr to join Paul.
Tommy could do a few shows with paul or a mini tour but if gnr was to tour, tommy would go with Axl.
So like I said, Tommy wont quit gnr to go back to the replacments.

Brain talked to axl three months ago, get  your facts straight.

fife flyer, Ditto! : ok:

Disco. discussion is not just about agreeing or disagreeing.

I said  he could have both because the reunion with someone he didn't like would be only for money, as Tommy stated.
And that I think whatever side job he does, he is not likely to leave GN'R unless otherwise asked by the leader.


So as a consequence, I'm with Dave. I don't think  it's hard to tell. : ok:

And you know that for a fact??...or are you assuming as per norm??

As for the drummer in the 'band' not speaking to Axl for 3 months, and not a year....so what???... He hasnt even seen the guy for a year........whats your point??..that the best you can come up with??......and again you didnt answer my question

answer me this Dave

6 months ago...If someone said that Tommy would go and record a NEW song with Westerberg, would you have admitted that as a possibility??

Simple yes or no will suffice....dont wiggle out of it.

Can you not refer to Axl as 'the leader', it reminds me too much of that episode of the simpsons, and after talking to a minority on this forum it's too close to the mark.

Im covered in the leaders dust.

Well Im covered in more of his dust.


Classic...

I have not seen my brother in over a year but i talked to him 2 months ago. So what does that mean? It doesnt mean squat, its just something for bashers like you to say SEE brain is quitting or Axl is an asshole for not talking to band members or see they are not a real band blah blah blah.

As for you question, the question was never posed 6 months ago, so who knows but if the question was asked would Dizzy be recording a song with Josh Todd what would ?you answer be?

LIke tommy said, he would not quit gnr to do a reunion with the mats. ?Until Tommy states differently, that is what I am sticking to, ?and so should you. I dont think tommy would like the fact that you are speaking for him.  Just go by what he says, and until he changes his mind dont worry about it. Just give it up already.

If someone asked me if Dizzy would record with Josh todd...Id have said sure why not.

I ask the question about wether you woulda said Tommy n Josh recording was a possibility 6 months ago, cos you are SOOOO adament that an album or a tour is an impossibility cos of something Tommy said well before then.......is that making sense??..

Tommy said no he blew it...but his stance has softened beyond belief, therefore logic sayd that if no CD is Imminent....there is an opening at the least.

Blood is thicker than water , dont compare the brother thing to GNR. Axl has called former GNR member family for yrs ...then calls one a 'former employee'. When someone like Izzy,  that he grew up with turns up at his door, he ignores him....and when this person writes songs for him that he was willing to GIVE to him....what does Mr family do??...has his lawyers send him a fuckin legal document asking Izzy to sign all control of his songs over to Axl.....not even a phone call. Charming.

Look Im not totally against Axl, and if makes an awesome album I'll be the FIRST in line to say 'the boy done good'......but to deny that someone like Tommy who has a huge emotional past with Paul (who BTW is WAY closer to Tommies natural style than GNR) ....to say that Tommy WILL NOT record or tour at this stage with GNR gasping for life is naieve, and arrogant.

Disco again learn to read. I said tommy wont quit gnr to go back with Paul.

well I think that is up in the air....My money is that he is still holding onto GNR, but at some point if he continues forging a musical relationship with paul(as no doubt has happened...somewhat)....and No CD is released.....then he will leave, that is obvious. The million dollar question is , has Axl given Tommy specific info as to the release of CD.....something that would give him faith to stay??


I dont know.

But as an example if your current girlfriend felt that she had a deep love with you, and kept telling her family that you were putting off the wedding continually for good reason but was frustrated about it........well then if she started hanging out with an ex as a friend and that was seeming to blossom.....wouldnt the question as to what was going on be relevant??

The girl in question is only gonna hang around for so long....and that isnt being a 'hater', it's the cold hard light of day.

just an fyi...........i agree with everything you have posted.  I believe Tommy is frustrated and I'd put money on a tour with Paul Westerburg instead of CD being released.

You said that Reznor tried to steal Fortus because he was frustrated that Finck chose to work with Axl, not him. So you wasn't right.

guys, this very topic was discussed on the velvet rope music business site by people who know Tommy and Westerberg and here is what they said

 - money is on the table for the Mats to re-unite
 - Tommy has learned a lot lately about how myuch money is out there for him if he looks
 - Tommy needs to get secure for later in life, he's not there yet
 - Tommy may not be getting paid by Axl anymore since Geffen let them go
 - Tommy will consider a reunion with Westerberg but only when the GNR thing is a no-go
 - Their writing a song together was a 'toe in the water' to see how it could all go
 - Tommy is pissed at Westerberg for his comments on Axl and relations have cooled again.

Dave, the fact of the matter is that money talk and bullshit walks, Tommy is looking to secure his future and if Axl won't do it for him, he'll do whatever it takes to ensure it happens...so
a re-union with The Mats is a possibility.
You're forum style of issuing sweeping statements of proposed fact and then developing sudden amnesia when proved wrong  is what you are being pulled up on here... nothing else.
peace,
Intercourse

All Dave said was he won't leave GnR to go back to the Replacements. I took this to mean Tommy will not leave GnR to go do the 'Mats full time again. Would he do a small reunion thing (ie: a few shows/short tour)? Maybe. If Chinese Democracy were to fade off into obscurity would he leave to pursue his solo material? Probably. Would he and Paul reconvene the 'Mats and make it a full time thing again? I have to think that they both have more integrity than that.

Read a little into what he's saying, he makes perfect sense to me.

It's quite likely that he's not getting paid, as Geffen/Universal most likely did stop funding the project. However, they did not "let them go". GnR and the rights to Chinese Democracy still belong to this label.

The deeper part of the Tommy/Paul thing with some of the faithful here is more than just the two getting together
for a song or a small tour.? Some have become so ridiculously possessive and in some cases, paranoid when it comes to Tommy working with Paul in any capacity.? Some will not even recognize the fact there is a possibility the two might get together at some point and look at it as some weird form of disloyalty to Axl.

The fact remains some here don't want Tommy within a mile of Westerberg, even is GNR remains inactive.

Very shortsighted, very selfish.

Yet, in any interview done since Geffen let them go, Tommy sounds more loyal than ever.  : ok:

Geffen/Interscope/Universal stopped funding the project in Feb 2004-as good of an educated guess as we have. Source was the NYT article. I am 99% sure that the money to pay the musicians came from the label/Geffen. Now, the question is if the musicians are under contract, does Axl or the brand name Gnr have to pay them until the contract expires. Nobody knows. ???

I guess Tommy knows damn well why it's not released yet. Need the quote?

The comparison is inapplicable and a bit gross as well. I hope you don't mind me modifying it.

Lets not forget about the fait accompli. She is expecting your baby, maybe twins or triplets.  They are still in the eggs that you're setting. She has kids with her ex but they all left the nest and set out on their own long ago.
She might see her ex to talk about their grownup children. Or she might go hunting for food.
However, She comes back to you straight to feed the newborns at any cost when you hatch the eggs.
Her heart lies there.

Well, getting grosser. :puke: I hope none of the band is browsing in this board from the bottom of my heart.

Look. the bottom of the issue is that you can't put trust in others, isn't it?

Gross? Unapplicable?  What the hell is your problem?  Here you are acting like the resident GNR expert, Bebe.  Disco's comparrison was on the money.  You started throwing all this other gibberish in and made it useless.  You seem angry and bitter.  Do you have some trust issues that need resolved?  Go to the Avril Lavign site and wow them with your overwhelming knowledge!

Well   :confused:  while admitting my writing is pissing poor, I'm not responsible for your lack of humour and intellectual capacity.

ppbebe,
I think your train of though just left the tracks and headed into Montell Williams country..hit the breaks girl!!

Intercourse Can you elaborate a bit?

If your post has anything to do with the topic.

I guess that you'll have to forgive my lack of humor regarding your posts because they typically do not make sense and therefore, are not funny. 

I think Intercourse is saying that you are in need of some psychological help because you don't make any damn sense most of the time.

I tell you what mate, ppbebe posts make a hell of a lot more sense than a lot of people on this message board, he or she is one of the more positive people and its cool reading the posts. Much better than a lot of the negative repetative crap that gets posted here a lot of the time.  Capiche?

I'll second that! Gilld, why don't you just drop it-it's bordering on harrassment-and just being an ass. :rant:

Im beginning to wish I didnt start this thread. All I said was that Tommy and Paul had recently worked together again but any news you have read about the two has all been bullshit. They haven't released any details about the material recorded.

Couldn't agree more..I say if a Mats reunion will make Tommy happy and get him out playing some legendary material then whats the harm. Theres only so long you can truly ask someone to wait for, and I think Axl needs to shit or get off the pot where his bandmembers obligations are concerned. In retrospect however, I would like to see Tommy mature and grow musically before falling back on past successes such as the Mats, but thats just me.

Just the carrying the eggs stuff was a little....odd...and I can't tie it to the topic at hand,
Oh forget it. It's true, your posts are usually positive and upbeat and always a good read, lets just call it a misunderstanding on my behalf for the sake of peace. : ok:
peace,
Intercourse,

Cheers. Intercourse ;D

Disco likened Tommy to "the girlfriend", Axl to "you" and Mat to "her ex". So I referred to the music with the babies. The eggs are the albums. The "grown up kids" from the past relationship/Intercourse :hihi: are the music that was already made public.

And I said its gross cos the 3 of them would vomit if they heard of  those comparisons.

PS, I don't drive a train. Have a Kit cat! :P