Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was listening to the Pearl Jam "Best Of/Greatest Hits" cd and on that release they have remastered/remixed the tracks that were taken from their debut album "Ten" (released in 1991). The tracks sound a bit different, I guess fresh is a word that could be used to describe the sound.


So the question is, would you like to see the whole "Appetite For Destruction" album remastered/remixed or do you think it should stay the way it is?

I think a Dualdisc or something similar with both the original and a remixed version would be nice.

Or maybe we'll get a 20th anniversary edition in a few years.....?


/jarmo

Id much rather hear the rerecorded version by the new band then the old version remastered.

But that wasn't the question....

This sin't about that version and I don't want it to be about that either.




/jarmo

Ok then no I dont think it should be remastered. Its perfectly fine the way it is.

They sound infinitely better, as do the recent remastered Megadeth albums, its amazing what simply tweaking the bass volume for instance can do.

I'm definetly for the album being remastered - hell, i got about 5 copies of the original, if i don't like the remaster i can always go back to that.

All i ask is that the remaster was done by the band or the end product was atleast approved by the band - i don't want some cowboy turning it into techno....

Remastered all the way, dualdisc would be cool as hell.

Just by comparing the sound of AFD to "TSI?", you'll notice how different they sound.

It's the same band and same producer. Only about 4-7 year difference when the tracks were recorded (AFD started in 1986 and "TSI?" in 1991).




/jarmo

For sure. I would buy that in a heartbeat. One of the joys of Appetite is listening to the rhythm guitar, which is kind of buried on the original 'mix.' A good remaster job would bring that out a bit. Plus, when you make mixes with new stuff, those old ones sound kind of quiet and small. I think an album of that stature deserves a remaster.

Yes. I would like to see it remastered and as Izzy said, approved by the band. Also, it should have the outtakes or b-sides from the sessions. Clink said they had recorded or worked on 20 songs for the album. I am sure November Rain was done at the time-and in a more completed version than the acoustic demo or piano demo. I would love to hear the afd era Nov Rain in something better than a 5th generation bootleg version. I guarantee there is a more concise stripped down gem of a recording in the vaults. :hihi:

Appetite was such a raw album with so much of a "vibe" to it that in my humble opinion would take away from the album if its re-mastered. ?Most older albums I would say yes to re-mastering. ?But kinda like the first Black Sabbath album, (which was basically 2 8-tracks hooked together for that recording) I think some of the "charm" would go away if its re-mastered. ?I personally have always wanted the 24 ct gold version of Appetite though.

remastrd. i hav AFD on CD and vocals on It's So Easy r very quiet.

I would love to hear the old band properly on a high end system. I can just imagine the amount of AFD that can't be heard due to the original transfer to analog.


Off topic: I guess because I'm part of the 'OldSchool' side of this board, it just bothers me when any reference to the old band is imediately followed by 'Fuck the old, I just want the new band'. Of course Im just as guilty from the other end, but I just feel that fans of the new band should have a greater respect for the old band than I necesarily would have for the new band..... They go by the name Guns N' Roses for a reason, becuase it's popular.....and why is it popular??? because of the old band..... If the old band wasn't hugely successfull Axl would have changed the name.

I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea that any fan of the band new or old would have an objection with something as simple as a remastered version of AFD, or something as huge as a reunion. To me Chinese Democracy is like being at a wedding and wating for the appetizers to be passed around (sure they are tasty, and i'll be first in line to grab a scallop wrapped in bacon, but i'm really there for The Prime Rib (reunion)....acctually I'm real there to land a brides maid, but that didn't fit my analogy)

Remastered...or rather, mastered correctly from the original source.? Here's what I mean and why:

In the late 80's, NOTHING was mastered directly from the source to digital (ie: CD) format.? The process of producing an album actually was that the original source material was converted to analog format (for tapes and vinyl, if they chose to release that way too) and then the analog "master" was converted to digital solely for the pressing of the CD's. This resulted in a pretty big loss in fidelity, since the analog master was always "muddier", with other issues, and, largely, going to CD just enhanced those issues, and made them much more apparent.?In addition, you essentially had a 3rd generation recording going to CD...granted, a very CLEAN 3rd generation, but 3rd generation all the same.

 Doing things that way ended in the very early 90's, and was reversed, so that the original source was mastered first into digital, and then the digital master was converted to analog ONLY for analog sources.? To all those about to scream, keep in mind, I'm trying to keep this simple...I realize analog is still used today in some mastering for the sound quality but it has little bearing on the discussion at hand.

 Remastering AFD would mean, in essence, we would get the first "true" digital conversion of the source material (though I'm not sure, I think the "Gold" version of AFD may have done this, as well, but I'm not sure...given it's limited availability, I can't seem to find out), and it would sound MUCH cleaner, and more like it did during recording.? The mix would also probably need to be "tweaked" to account for the differences in bass, etc.? However, you'd have a version of AFD that which would sound much closer (in the sense of fidelity and sound reproduction) to the UYI albums, rather than the somewhat muddied and bass impaired version of AFD that exists on CD today.

I think AFD should absolutely be remastered.  Perhaps, it should be packaged as an expanded set.  They did this with the Weezer Blue Album and added B-sides, demos, unreleased songs, the whole nine yards.  A very nice set could easily be put together.  We'll see....

Yes I want a remastered version and maybe a bonus track like Shadow of Your Love or Crash Diet  : ok:

And please nothing re-recorded its perfect the way it was done. Let the new guys do their thing and let the old stuff continue their legacy!!

I have the 24K Gold Version. If no one else can get the info by 6PM EST (I'll be home from work) I'll scan the back cover which I know has a disclaimer about the source and the remastering.

TSI is their heaviest album.  It rocks.

That would be AWESOME! ?I've actually never seen a copy of it...but in addition, I've never heard it, either, so am not sure what the sound quality difference is.

If it has the disclaimer, I'm assuming it was done the "old" way....that's usually the disclaimer you will see when that is the case...and I KNOW there is one on the back of AFD.

I like the idea of a remastered version with bonus tracks, either as outtakes or b-sides.

Ali

rremastered in dual disc

I have the gold version too (got it right off the rack... knowing how valuable those have become I should have bought 10 of the fuckers).

I don't have it here to scan, but as for the sound, I can tell you it isn't much different than the regular version. It's more of a collectable.

I was just wishing yesterday that it would be remastered when I was listining to it.

StoneTempleRoses

That has nothing to do with the question I asked. So stop whining about reunions and the band's name.


Sometimes I wonder if some people here deliberately fuck up all threads to be about the name/Axl's clothes/reunions/Slash vs Robin.....  ::)



/jarmo

Thats a good idea, no offense to fans of Appetite (I prefer the Illusions) but it's sound a bit dated to me, but it's still good to listen to now and then.

i have to dissagree, i have already heard sweet child from big daddy,no new band! remix, remaster, dual disc dvd, and a new radio single "its so easy" , should finally get an official american release.20th anniversary would be perfect. i think the labels are pushing for accross the board dvd/dual discs anyways, they think its gonna save sales !

i dunno... i could be good, but i dont like the idea of fooling around with perfection. and i'd much rather Chinese Democracy before a remastered AFD.

nah....I never notice the difference when they do it anyway.

Appetite for Reconstruction...remastering the original would sonicly bring it up to date. Recording & mixing has come a long way since 1987.

Yes

Yes , remaster it and LOSE some of that cheesy reverb , especially on the drums!  : ok:

Axl needs to stop thinking about past accomplishments. He should start working on the album that starts with a C.

What does this have to do with Axl?

It's a pretty basic question: Would you like to hear AFD remastered?

Nowhere in the question did I ask "Would you like Axl to take time off from working on CD to remaster AFD" or "What do you prefer, the old or new band?".  ::)



/jarmo

This is something I have hoped will occur for a long time. Perhaps we'll see it as a 20th anniversary edition. If ever an album deserved to be celebrated in this way, it is Appetite.

A question - the remastered tracks on the Greatest Hits (specifically the Appetite tracks), whats peoples opinion of the sound of them? ie. remastering process from original source?

I think there should be a really awesome box-set 3-disc 20th anniversary edition:
Disc 1 - Appetite for Destruction remastered from the original master recordings by Mike Clink in full 5.1 digital surround sound.
Disc 2 - AFD-era rarities, outtakes and live performances (eg Shadow of Your Love, the Hellhouse rehearsal of Jumpin' Jack Flash cleaned up and properly mastered, Cornchucker etc).
Disc 3 - A DVD, It's So Easy: The Story of Appetite for Destruction, with interviews from the band members (although I don't know if Axl would do it), the bands they opened for, producers, music-biz guys from Geffen etc. The DVD would tell the story of GN'R from their childhoods (Lafayette to LA or something), early bands they played in, the beginnings of GN'R, the recording process and tour, and the album finally 'blowing up' when they opened for Aerosmith. Snippets of live shows and a suitably rockin' soundtrack would, of course, come as standard.

From what I understand, GH wasn't re-mastered.  Or at least wasn't fully re-mastered.  All I know is I didn't buy it.  But an assload of people did.  Over a year has passed and its still on the American billboard top 50!

Oh, I was under the impression that all the tracks were remastered and this is one of the reasons the band didnt want it released as they had no involvment in it being remastered??

now that I`d love to see!

I wouldnt mind an Appetite version that is remastered somewhere down the road but for now the original is just perfect as it was when it was first released..The biggest sound issues I have with it are as someone already pointed out the frequent quietness of Izzy's guitar and the persistent drum reverb. Its all part of the nostaliga i guess though. :peace:

I think AFD has held up really well. I would, however, like the Illusion CDs remastered. Oddly enough, they (esp UYI-1) sound more dated, I think because UYI 1 has kind of a glossy feel.

UYI 1 sounds dated. However USI 2 sounds perfect.
Appetite shouldn't be remastered, it might lost (a bit) of its magical.

Yes, as long Clink is involved and as long as they won't remaster it do death with some 96khz/24bit audio - sure, why not?


But then again, personally, I just love that vintage sound, the reverb and everything, just right as it is.

The UYI's have way too much reverb. They need the remastering more....

But have you ever heard the Vinyl version of Appetite For Destruction? It's very different than the CD version. Like, in Sweet Child O Mine, there is a whole other guitar track in the first half of the long solo. I can't hear it anywhere on the CD.

I know The Cure complained about this a lot too, when they recorded their albums in the 80s. Said they always turned to crap when put to CD. They're remastering all of their CDs, and they sound awesome. It's nothing big, but nice for a change.

No, I don't like albums I love messed with.

I think a remastered dual disc would be the way to go, with one side the album and the other side all the film clips, plus maybe some rare footage, demos and a revised booklet with some liner notes by the band.

I'd definitely buy that! : ok:

Actually, add a booklet with liner notes by Clink, the band, groupies and stuff to that - make it a real collectable. It could almost be made into a GN'R starter pack :hihi:


EDIT - the UYIs should be put together in a box-set too, again with a DVD (Bad Obsession: The Story of Use Your Illusion I & II) perhaps?). Sure, they'd be expensive, but newer fans could buy either or both sets and get a much better idea of GN'R than they would with say the Greatest Hits. If Geffen are complaining about Axl's spending sprees on their proverbial credit card recording Chinese Democracy, then why not really beat the dead horse? There's life in the ole girl yet, and I've already been seeing people my age getting into Guns (and after only minimal prodding, persuasion and "Seriously, they're much better than [insert name of crappy MTV band here]!")

appetite remastered?..........................................DEFINATELY   : ok:

I have a question.....(maybe its a very dumb question but here goes......)

Exactly what do they do when they remaster something?

I remember hearing Axl say in an interview to Loder that they redid the AFD. He said they took out

"subtle 80's signatures...double bass, less reverb"

So lets say Axl or whoever remasters AFD.....exactly what happens ...clearer guitar, drums? bass? vocals?

I find these technical topics very interesting! : ok:

Well, in the case of the "old" Pearl Jam tracks on their "Greatest Hits" album, you can hear things that weren't really that easy to hear in the original mix.

Also, it sounds like they boost the bass and cut down on the reverb....




/jarmo

I'd love to hear a remastered version of Appetite For Destruction especially if some bonus songs or features were included with it. 

I'd also like remastered versions of the UYI albums, I think they'd actually benefit more from being remastered than AFD because there are more musical layers, and on some songs the clarity of the vocals is not that good

I don't think remastering will make a difference. But a dual disc would be nice though... : ok:

I think it's great idea if Appetite For destruction was remastered. Heck, remaster both Use Your Illusion albums too. : ok:

(Can anyone else tell I'm really GN'R/Axl hungry?) ;D

Hmmm more bass eh?....I like that!
I think it would be fantastic to hear even little things in AFD if it were remastered. Believe me I could probably pick up new sounds since I have listenned to it 12000 times!.

THX!

I have the 24 ct gold and it claims to be rematered from the "original source" and to be the most accurated depiction of those source tapes.  Oh well.  It does sound awesome.  The appettite songs on greatest hits seem to have a lot more bass to me.  Wasn't there a rumor those were remastered?

What I would really like to see happen is when the G'N'R contract with Geffen ends, have the new label purchase the entire G'N'R catalog and re-release it the way AC/DC did last year. All of their albums were re-mastered and special features were added to each.

ShotgunBlues is on the right track, Even UYI 1+2 would benefit greatly from being re-mastered (after all the technology on those albums is 14 years old)

It would be really interesting to hear remastered version..

but then again, why to change something that is already a masterpiece. In the best way we have a win win situation here.

Yes. I was thinking about remastering the old records (pre-"TSI?" ones) other day and thought about asking it here. A lot of bands has done this but hearing how CD is mastered I don't think GN'R are any interested of remastering those old records.

And I also was thinking if those old DVDs would get re-released for Blu-ray. Better audio/video quality etc.. It would be nice. :)

But don't get me wrong because what I really want, is some live shit from the current tour/band.  :smoking: :drool:

Well i have the ultimate remaster of that Appetite! So far there's no better than this, which is the SHM-CD.
Its way superior to the original version.

I also have Chinese Democracy as SHM-CD, but i gotta say that on this one you cant notive much difference from the original, except that you can hear the drums and those little fills better.

I do think every Guns N'Roses album should get a remaster, just like the other albums in other bands.

For example (and this is not the best example for someone) but Poison had their greatest hits remastered in 1996 and they sounded pretty good, but when the new Greatest Hits from 2006 came out, the songs on there sound much much better, so i bought it! And it was a great buy!

I think they should re-release Appetite for Destruction remastered and maybe with a few extras, maybe demos.. like Don't Cry 1987 version, which was actually the first GNR song, or something like that

the 1st japanese pressing and the MFSL release of AFD sound way superior than the standard release, get those!
dont like "re"-masters.....as they mostly just re-equalize stuff from the CD itself (not the real master tapes) often resulting in the horrible loudness war without any dynamics, its really a pain these days! but a soloution could be re-transfering the real analog master tracks with todays equipment into like 24bit/176,4khz and re-mixing it properly. they most likely did that already as a back up but re-releasing AFD right now might not be the best timing, lets wait for 25, 30, 40,....anniversary  ;)

I'm not really into remasters... that said, I prefer the albums as they were intended back then (not only GN'R but music in general) of course things can be better or worse with remasters, you could also have 10 different remaster versions if you send of the tapes to 10 mastering engineers... all will have there own approach & mastering chain & result...

I'm for if this means that AFD would benefit 100% from being remastered, but no remix... again not only the performances on this album made it what it is but also the mixes...

^^good points!
leads me to the thought that they could just re-transfer the 1987 analog mix master (if that still exists that is) in a higher quality product like DVD-Audio or SA-CD etc.
that would let the old loved mix untouched but it would be much higher quality. as we are with quality i still dont get it why industry is so slow in spreading higher quality audio products. i mean the CD standard is from early 80s!! in video we have Blu-Ray now but audio gets often even more compressed for itunes (etc.) than the damn old CD standard 16bit/44,1khz WAV.

Wow, this thread is 5 years old. :P


Anyways, I think the album could have a good remastered version indeed. There shouldn't be a problem for purists, as the original recording is widely available.

I would *LOVE* for them to do almost exactly what you're referring to. The version of Ten that they just released with a remastered version of the original album, then a "remixed" version of the album was very cool. You can hear tons of stuff in both mixes that you couldn't hear before.

AFD needs to be remastered.  Not remixed.  Just remastered for a higher quality sound which they've acheived in the last 20 years.  I'm sure Axl hasn't been interested in revisiting old albums when he's trying to promote CD, the current band and tour.  But perhaps 2012 would be a good time, to coincide with its 25th anniversary.  

When I say "remix" I don't mean the traditional type of remix. I mean like Pearl Jam did with Ten where they stripped it of the unnecessary reverb and what not. But they released it as a double CD with the original album too for those who prefer it.

For sure. I would buy it.

i think they should do like a deluxe edition and throw in another disc with some demos and live stuff.