Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://theninhotline.net/archives/articles/manager/display_article.php?id=66


Here's the G&R mention:

"There have been important members like keyboardist Charlie Clouser, drummer Chris Vrenna, who Reznor had a falling out with in 1997, and guitarist Robin Finck, who started in the band after The Downward Spiral.

Now though, he's openly scathing of Finck: "Robin Finck [was] getting paid loads of money to hang out with Axl Rose and his house was getting paid for. You know what, [expletive] you," he spews. "

Wasn't Chris Vrenna involved with GNR at some point, or is it only my imagination?

Beyond the Finck mention, it's a great article.

Thanks for posting. : ok:

Reznor is a tool.   my point being who cares what he says

With all due respect to Reznor, he should realize Finck working with Axl meant that Robin saw something worthwhile in what Axl was doing.

Its really simple. Robin helped write CD and is apart of the band, while in NIN he just plays live the stuff that Trent wrote. Trent wouldnt let anyone but him write for NIN.

If Robin really sucked as much as some of you claim on this board, you really think  Trent would be this mad that Robin wouldnt tour with him?

For the record, as far as his style is concerned, I think Robin kicks ass.  : ok:

Robin brings a lot more to GNR than he gets credit for.

Finck weighing his options, GNR is a better setup than NIN since he can be a collaborator, not just a live guy playing Trent`s stuff.

In '91, Reznor said in an interview that Axl was a "Friend" of his, and had asked him to open some shows. Reznor also said once that he "respects" Axl. Although he did make some kinda funny jabs, but Trent will be Trent. And for the record, I would love Axl and Reznor to do a song together, that'd be sweet.

I read not long ago an interview with Roger Waters and Trent. While Trent knew everything about Pink Floyd, Roger didnt know what the hell was NIN. It was very funny.

Trent seems pretty upset, wonder why he didn't feel comfortable allowing Robin in the studio with him?

I mean, NIN in good, but if he is that upset at Finck, have him record with you...I mean Axl must have seen something

I really am anxious to hear Fincks style, I think it will be really something special...

being paid to hang with trent reznor at his house... or being paid to hang out with axl rose at his house-   some people have all the hard decisions.

You know, the shit talking about Reznor is fuckin sad. Reznor a "tool?" Obviously one doesn't know what the fuck a "tool" represents if you are using it to describe Reznor. Reznor continues to push the technological envelope while others rest on their past accomplishments.

You don't like NIN music? Cool. Each to his own. But downplaying the mark NIN has made, and continues to make, makes you a "tool." With Teeth represents one of the first albums to be recorded in a 5.1 and will sound so fucking good compared to anything else that has ever come before it. Its not remastered or remixed in 5.1 (and I am talking about the dual disc that will contain With Teeeth in 5.1, on the DVD side), it was recorded in 5.1. If any of you don't like it, I feel sorry for you.

There is always another side to the coin, and if Reznor felt betrayed or burned or whatever, that is his side of it. He made Finck who he is, and whatever contributions he now makes with GNR, just shut your traps about Trent and just say thank you.

Remember this kids ( here comes a Star Wars quote), "Who is more the fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?"

What does it say about Axl if you think Trent is a "Tool" or whatever? NIN has released very inspiring music creatively. It inspired and kicks my ass, and moves me. And if you know a thing about Axl, you know how moved Axl was by NIN.

NIN is cool, and Reznor is what he is. If you don't think he is cool now, then you don't think he ever was. He hasnt changed to try to be cool with whatever the current trend is that dates him and his music to that time. And You have to at least appreciate and respect what Reznor is doing musically.

Reznor is a fucking genius, and all I understand is that he didn't like loosing a GREAT musician. It's understandable. NIN is one helluva band. And like the person above said, NIN is among Axl's favourites bands  : ok:

too busy to right full reply..here's a summary  ;)

Trent can be a tool. Yes, "Reznor continues to push the technological envelope while others rest on their past accomplishments" but that doesn't mean he's not a tool on a personal level. I'm being a Devil's Advocate here, I'm not saying he is a tool, but that his musical acomplishments have no bearing on his toolness.

And Trent does appear to fall out with a heck of a lot of friends...

We don't know what happened between the two of them so can only guess that it's because Robin decided to stay with GnR and not tour with Trent. I think many here would love to see Robin tour with NIN again but can understand his desire to stick with GnR, where he is a full member of a band and not just playing Trent's music. That decision which Robin made doesn't justify Trent's dissing of Robin, both in this article and on his website when he talked about pissing in Robin's shoes. It just smacks of childishness.

I agree with all you said about NIN musically but I think Trent's out of line with these comments.

(And Trent didn't make Robin - he found someone who fit into the NIN mould perfectly, and Robin benefitted from it, but so did NIN)

of course he saw something worthwhile in Axl

where else can u get your mortgaged paid and not have to do a fuckin thing?

greatest job in the world right there, get paid to do a whole lot of nothing.

Although I don't like Finck's playin' it's logical that he rather plays for a band in which he is involved in the writing and not only a tour musician. BTW I'm sure that Axl pays more than Trent, so the decision wasn't hard for him.

That can also be said about a certain member of Guns n' Roses...

True....

1. How does anyone know what Robin has brought to Gnr? He really didn't even contribute much to Oh My God. 2. In the time span the new band has been together, Reznor released The Fragile, toured extensively, released a live album and dvd, and now has a new album and tour. If Reznor is a recluse then Rose has just simply disappeared altogether. Gnr has been completely inactive for going on 3 years! 3. Robin probably could have done this new NIN tour and then had time to get back with Gnr before Chinese is released. There is absolutely no indication that Axl is planning on doing anything in the near future. 4. It is obvious Finck stayed with Gnr because of money. Trent is just calling it like he sees it. All the work Finck has done or not done for Axl may never even see the light of day. It is a sad thought but it is certainly a possibility. ps I'm a little aggravated by all this right now. Just came back from buying With Teeth and am slightly jealous of fans whose favorite artists actually release records. :rant:

If you listen to IRS or the live bootlegs of the new songs (Blues, Maddy), Finck`s influence is unmistakable, 3/4 of the guitar work is from him.

I was just talking about official releases-which there aren't any. I have heard all that and his influence is there. But, a few live bootlegs does not make a career.? :-\

Fuck, I am picking up With Teeth when I break for lunch in an hour. I can't Fucking WAIT!!!

I can't stress the dual disc version of it enough. If you got the album or going to get it...get the Dual Disc. The album was recorded in 5.1 and that is the way the album is meant to be heard. Not the downsampled CD of it.

I can't believe With Teeth actually came out before Chinese Democracy. Its actually very fucking sad. There was NO WAY With Teeth should have come before it!



Here is something to chew on. You know how influenced Axl is by NIN. Wouldn't it be great when Axl hears "With Teeth" blasting out is sweet fucking Digital Theater Settup, and comes to the realization that the quality of the audio is so much better then Chinese Democracy, that he realizes he has to rerecord it.

Wouldn't that be funny? ...

...god help us  :'(

How is it obvious that Finck has stayed with GN'R for money?  Where have you ever read that being said by someone other than Reznor?

I'm sorry, but I see that as nothing more than a cynical view of the motivations behind Finck's loyalty with no basis whatsoever in fact.  When Robin wrote on his website "i'm chomping at the bit to get out and really shake things up with gnr and look forward to the release of the new album and ultimately to tour and to tour" and that he was disappointed by Guns withdrawal from Rio-Lisbon, that shows that he has an emotional investment in the band and it isn't just about the money.

Ali

Ditto to Ali n GnRFL :D

You mean you don't like NIN  but you bought it? :hihi:

It's still more than he did in NIN...

Saying he's only looking for money is quite unfair. You're judgin a guy without even know him or have any real proof that he's only in Guns N' Roses to make money. It's obvious that Trent is upset with Robin and he wouldn't say bad things if he didn't miss him. He is hurt and just wanted to hurt Robin.

"To Tour and to Tour"-shows you Robin is living in a dream world! If you think Axl is capable of pulling off an extended tour, then more power to you. I don't think he is remotely mentally stable enough to do it. Just my opinion. Ali, I actually feel sorry for Robin....and Tommy especially. Axl may have given them money, but he hasn't given them the one thing I bet they want more than anything, a release date for Chinese. ?:no:

How do you know hes not doing that anyway? ;)

With Axl anything is possible, he might even release the album in Cassette version only! : ok:

Dont know anything about either party in thid argument, so cant really comment, interesting to read all the same!

And the rival in love...... :hihi:

I feel a bit sorry to Trent to heat that.
Hey, I like with teeth a lot so don't be so jealous of da pimp dad.

Axl may or may not be mentally stable enough to pull off an extended tour, I'm not sure.  The only thing I am sure of is that I don't know the man personally, therefore I'm not comfortable commenting on his mental health. 

If Tommy and Robin say that they like playing live with Guns and they like the music they've worked on, then I'll take them at their word and leave it at that.  We all can speculate until the end of time how much of their loyalty to Guns is for the band and music, and how much is because of the money.  But, you'll never know for sure unless you live in their heads.  I'd rather just take them at their word  : ok:

Ali

I picked "With Teeth" up today as well, fantastic first listen.  Definitely has a sense of urgency about it, very focused. 

Would have loved to see Robin tour with Trent on this one.  Oh well, maybe he'll be busy elsewhere. :hihi:

Damn, I understand u have a falling out with someone and dont play with them anymore. But come on, to call someone out in the press after all this time, and then air some bogus story like Finck being paid to hang out with Axl really makes Reznor look like a punk ass  :peace:

Robin and Tommy are in a much better position to know what goes on than you are, my friend.

Are you serious when you talk about "Finck's influence" ? I'm laughing, really. :rofl:

Finck didn't participate in NIN albums, what kind of influence could he have ?
From a musical and artistic point of view, Finck is less than zero.

And someone must have a serious problem in his head if he lets Slash go just to hire Mr Robin Finck ! :nervous:

So, I would say like Trent Reznor (though his album sucks) : "Finck, fuck you !"

Estranged, the facts speak for themselves. NOTHING has gone on in almost 3 years. What planet do you live on? I realize they know what is happening, but please tell me what is happening? No release date, no tour, nothing. If you think they can put together a tour by the end of the year, you have lost it. The members are all over the globe until mid September. They probably haven't even played some of the material on the album in 4-5 years! It is going to take a whole lot of work just to figure out how to play their songs! Listen, I think the album will be great-no doubt. But, please understand that I have very little faith in ANYTHING that is said by bandmembers, Merck, Axl, or anyone else. EVERYTHING they have predicted has not come to fruition. Again, the facts and reality speaks for itself.

I do agree with you, except for one thing : I am not sure the album will be that great... :P

Yeah, don't expect another Snakepit album......



/jarmo

If you don't like Slash's solo albums that's not my problem.
But there is one thing for sure : Slash's contribution to Guns N'Roses has been HUGE ! I don't think anyone could say the same about Finck & Co.

And?

So was Izzy's contribution. And Duff's..... And even Steven had a part in it.

Oh, and that lead singer had a tiny part.



So you know how much he has contributed since he joined?

How did you find it out?



/jarmo

I can see why Trent Reznor would be pissed off. ?He got ditched for Axl Rose of all people. ?I really like Finck but it seems to me that he's a sellout. ?Without Reznor, Finck would be nothing.

Money is apparently worth more than his passion for music. ?Everybody's got a price I guess (getting paid to do nothing is a sweet deal). ?But if he's really committed to GNR and saw something in Axl, then more power to him.

It'll be interesting to see how this whole thing will play out. ?I think all the members could be doing something better than hanging out with Axl... except Dizzy and Tommy.. they're lifers.

The core of Guns N'Roses is Axl+Slash. Read to a 1993 Axl's interview, he agrees with that : Axl+Slash=GN'R.

The other members had their part (specially Izzy, of course), but the band could continue without them.
But, without Slash or without Axl (of course) it is impossible to make GN'R, as everyone can see.



Concerning Finck's contribution : some concerts like RIR and 2002 disaster tour. That's it.

You don't know Robin Finck, so don't judge him.

Agreed, estranged.

With all due respect, Nick, you have absolutely no idea what Robin Finck's motivations are for joining, and staying loyal to GN'R.  Therefore, you have no basis for saying that "money is worth more than his passion for music."

Ali

I don't think any of us can be sure of Finck's motivations - but I do know that if I had the choice of being paid peanuts to tour with an egotistical, childish old  cokehead like Trent, or getting paid more to sit at home waiting to tour with an egotistical, childish old neurotic like Axl AND occasionally contribute to the band, I'd have to go with door #2.

Regardless, does anyone trust Trent Reznor's judgment of musicians? He is, let's not forget, employing ex-Mansonite Twiggy Ramirez. 

No problem with Trent's judgement here, Twiggy was a heavy contributor to the brilliant Manson who's services have been highly sought after since his departure.  Other notable players have done time with Reznor include Richard Patrick and Chris Vrenna and obviously Robin Finck.

The only judgement in question here is yours.

Well absolutely, you're welcome to question my judgment, I don't have a string of hit albums behind me. But, I have heard much of Jordy's(sp?) work and I think he's a pretty poor bass player, all things considered. But that's not my point, my point would be that of all the things said about him, I've never heard anyone claim that Jordy was a serious, dedicated musician. As such, I have to doubt the accuracy of Reznor's own judgment in condemning Robin for what Trent percieves to be some form of "selling out" while at the same time employing a bassist known for everything other than his ability as a musician. ?

Don't get me wrong... I'm speculating at this point (aren't we all).? Of course I don't know what his motives are and that's why I say more power to him is he saw something in Axl that he perhaps didn't see in Reznor.? Maybe saying he's a sellout was a little harsh... its not like we were there.

I hesitate to say he's loyal to GNR.? Let's not forget that he left NIN for GNR, quit GNR for NIN then came back to GNR.? Maybe there's something is both bands that he dislikes but overall, Axl was a better choice.? We'll never know.

That's your opinion. I happen to think "nugnr" is still Guns N Roses. It sounds liek Guns N Roses and looks like Guns N Roses, so hey I guess it must be Guns N Roses.  : ok:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have read that Finck left NIN because of the on stage physical abuse from Reznor.  Robin would be rocking onstage and then boom! out of nowhere he's hit with a microphone in the face.  Apparently, he couldn't take it anymore so he leaves one abusive singer for another.  I can't speak for his motivations or loyalties but I can speculate that he is a glutton for punishment.

I seem to remember reading exactly that when Robin originally left NIN. Then again, it's the same story attributed to various members of Marilyn Manson on their way out the door too. Whether it's accurate or not I don't know, but what I do know is that Trent's "spontanious" gear-wrecking outbursts are planned according to which pieces of equipment the techs have spares for. That alone would get on my nerves after about two shows. I'm amazed that anyone tours with Reznor a second time. Perhaps his experiences touring with NIN will have prepared Finck for life on the road with Axl? At the very least, Reznor's outburst in that interview will give Robin a taste of the bitter recriminations due if he should ever leave GNR :P

Ive never ever seen Axl hit anyone in the band onstage with a mic on purpose.

*corrects you because you are wrong*
I never remember reading anything like that.  Reznor's days of uh, Physical abuse were long gone around last tour he did with Finck. Things during Fragility were pretty calm overall.
..And uh..we are talking about Finck here goddamnit!Someone who started his career as performing artist by "playing" a chainsaw, sucked  Manson's dick onstage somewhere along the way..he is TEH physical abuse himself goddamnit.
I'd be very suprised to hear  he wasn't entirely cool with Reznor's usual  not-entirely-heterosexual-male-agressive-hug during Sin's guitar solo :yes:

Finck left because he was offered a  change to actually be a part of a studio team of a huge band and make massive piles  of cash along the way.Simple as that.

He certainly isn't  the luckiest guitarist in the world though..yo-yoing between 2 perfectionist controlfreak band dictators..poor Finck. I bet he misses the straightforward Chainsaw player days by now.

Jesus this got lame (well it was lame to begin with but anyway).

I take it none of you have seen NIN live right? Man it gets crazy. Trent gets psycho and does slam into the band, and it kicks ass. This isn't a safe show and as a long time GNR fan and one who has dug every GNR show I have ever seen, I appreciate that dirty,  dangerous rock show. Its not lame moshers, its the music and the musicians that bind and penetrate the audience. Trent is a master performer, in a completely different way that Axl is. If Finck couldnt take it, he was in the wrong band, and is a big pussy. NIN live gets crazy.

So he joined GNR because he wanted to feel nice and safe? Lol, that really what you want to believe? How fucking gay.

(and yea, the Fragile tour was definitely not as chaotic as previous.)

"I've never seen Axl hit anyone in the band onstage with a mic" 

I never said that Axl did this, read a bit more carefully next time.

I think that it was Reznor who went down on Manson onstage and not Finck.  Reznor's parents were in the audience too!!

No, I heard that it was Reznors dad, who sucked on twiggy's cock, as twiggy sucked on Finck, who sucked on Reznors dick, while Manson got sucked by Chris Vrenna, who let Steven Adler suck on his dick for some coke.



...now get the fuck off this nonsense (you know, now that's its been cleared up).

Yep, this thread has turned into some sort of freaky tribute to misinfo and tabloid press.
But yeah, let's keep discussing on Manson  blowjobs because it is important.
No, it was not Reznor.It was Finck.
Hmm..or was it Manson  that sucked Finck's dick?
But yeah, blowjobs, yay!

From an interview with the NIN touring band:

"Mr. Manson has been very vocal in retelling the story of one particular incident from the NIN / Manson tour - when Manson allegedly gave Robin Finck a blow job onstage in Florida.

"Oh, Manson's quite a sensationalist", Robin sighs, the mildest hint of colour reddening his pallid complexion. "I wouldn't believe everything he says."

"But Manson does suck men's dicks", smiles Danny Lohner, as he enters the room and slumps down on the sofa beside me. "He's gay."

You think so?

"Oh, yeah", he grins. "He would say something terrible about us, so we should make up something first as a preemptive strike."

-------------------------------------------


So there you go. In a shocking turn of events it seems that not everything in Manson's autobiography was true. I'm sure you're all shocked and disheartened.

GnR is now, and has been for a long, long time, nothing but nonsense.? And words. Empty, hollow, meaningless words.

I've never heard anything contrary to Geordie being anything but the consumate professional.? His employment w/Manson, Maynard and now Reznor would lead me to believe he's quite talented.? By the way, I've never heard anyone "claim that Robin was a serious, dedicated musician."? Much to the contrary according to Reznor.


Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

I think Robin thinks like all good musicians. When his rock n roll days are done and he cant tour no more what is he suppose to show his kids?  I think he has enough talent that he wants to create and be part of something so he has a legacy.

the musical directoer of cirque de soliel isnt a creative force? ???

The musical director(?) of CdS may be a creative force, I don't know.

Robin was just a guitar player for them. Finck was not the musical director for the circus.

He is with Guns N' Roses. Yes, the album is not out blah blah blah... but you can't deny it.

hmm strange I know I read somewhere that he was the misical director for them  ???

You can't prove it.

Remember when (I think it was) Tommy heard some tracks he worked on a while before and didn't even recognize them when he heard them again? Believe that Axl knows what he wants the mass of music to sound like (wheather the sound changes daily or monthly, whatever) and he'll fuck around himself in the studio with the material until the final product is what HE likes. This means he could render tracks close to unrecognizable to what the musicians contributed in the fist place.

Robin could be characterized as any number of things, I'm not holding him up as a paragon of musical virtue but pointing out the hypocrisy in Trent's blatherings. Besides which, I think the case could be made, very reasonably, that Reznor & Pogo were largely responsible Manson's sound on AS, and that John5 was the primary creative force in that band from the moment he arrived. So while Twiggy was a contributor to Manson's output he was hardly the driving force behind the sonic landscape of 'Antichrist. . . ' nor the pulsating riffs of the later albums, so what exactly was his contribution to the band, other than the occassional guitar part?

I didn't say I characterized Robin that way, I said he "could be" characterized that way. ?

For the record, Robin's involvement brought me back to GNR, I've always dug his playing and stage presence. ?He brings a certain element of "cool" that this version of Axl's orchestra sorely needs.

However, I am a realist. ?

The fact remains he's never written one memorable note in his life.

I see absolutely no hypocrisy in Trent's "blatherings".?

He sees Robin as a opportunist, getting paid to do nothing.

Obviously this is Trent's problem, not mine nor yours.?

But...

It's also obvious he feels strongly about this, he believes it to be true.? He's not shy about mentioning it and doesn't care who hears it.

I did a thread where i broke down the writing credits and Izzy has almost double the writing credits of slash

so Its way more than just Slash and Axl : ok:

I can't prove what exactly?

I don't think Tommy ever said he didn't recognize them. Tommy worked on a LOT of music, and he said he was impressed when he heard some of them again after a long time. Also, the music was probably in a more completed state than what he worked on. It seems to me you're putting words in his mouth to make a point.

Fact is, Reznor is mad cause Finck jumped on the Axl train, because Reznor was too scared to let someone else record with him.

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

Axl is incredibly mental, but musically I don't think he is stupid, we just have never heard Robin's playing, only on other people's material. I am looking forward to hearing his material, I think it will be highly original, and surprising to alot of you, too

It goes to show Axl chose someone with no record of creative input to replace a player whose written some of the most memorable riffs of all time.

Now who's the dummy?

Prove that he is an invaluable creative source. You said he is with GNR.


It may not have been tommy, but someone in the band right now. Not Dizzy :-X. Maybe Brain. Too bad I don't have the quote on hand. I don't know if he said it writh a wry look on his face, but come on


He's a musician. I would hope he's worked on a lot.


If i were in a band and had been working on an album for 6 years and not be able to recognize what I actually did on these tracks in year 5, I'd qustion my woth to the unit, in a way.

And who's responsible for the more complete versions? Fortus? PITTS?


the wheels are in motion...

He wanted to control the way the sound of the band evolved, and progressed. That's why he managed to get rid of his whole band. He had a vision.

This is axl's material and robin fit more with what he's looking for.

Back to Finck's playing---listen to NIN live album, Finck's a solid player.

He sure is! I saw the NIN Live DVD! Robin was great!

They replaced Izzy (who wrote a lot of GN'R songs) with Gilby and Steven was replaced by Matt (who hadn't recorded with The Cult at the time). What's the problem?

I guess Axl saw Robin play and wanted him in the band. Pretty basic.




/jarmo

 :D He sure is! I hear Robin all over the "just an early demo" IRS.  Robinish Dada! It works so well.

BH.

And look at Axl's production since Izzy left, hardly plolific.

As for Matt, did he have much if any creative input in GNR?? I'd always heard he came in and played Steve's parts.


Could be, or was it his fixation/fascination with all things NIN that made him seek Robin out?

As I've said, I dig Robin.? Loved his playing with Trent and dug it with GNR in '02.?  I hope he turns out to be creative gold with Axl.

With that in mind, and trying to objective about his inclusion in GNR, even the most ardent Axl -ite must admit this looks like a deliberate reach at getting a player from a band Axl was infatuated with.

Finck is no stranger to the circus - Matt Sorum found him playing with Cirque Du Soleil. "I told Axl to see him and he said, 'That's our guitar player,"' says Sorum. "I said, 'Bring in Robin to play alongside Slash,' but Axl said, 'I want him to play lead."'

Spin magazine, July 1999




/jarmo

Understood.

However, I find it extremely hard to beleive Axl (or Matt for that matter) had no prior knowledge of Robin's involvement in NIN. 

I seriously doubt they stumbled upon him at the circus.

Well, dident Robin play with NIN when NIN opend for GNR back in 199(?)  ... I beleve so! And im pretty sure there is alot more behind  it!

No, Robin wasn't in the band in 1991.


I think Axl got Robin because he thought Robin could help him create the kind of record he wanted to create.


Do you think Richard was asked to join because Axl wanted to make an NSYNC album?



/jarmo

Yeah, but you also say,


If he'd been that NIN freak, he would have known more than you do including the quote above if true.
Axl sought out someone with no record of creative input in NIN but just played for the shows? Is it what you mean?
I'd rather find this extremely hard to believe.

I think NIN is not the only band Axl likes.
On the other hand Robin may happen to be the only guy who's been in two bands you like.

 :o Maybe Axl's real aim was "Dada" Robin not NIN from da start!!! Whata  Cheek!!! :D

Anyhow I'm glad to hear that you like Robin. ;D

Agreed..to a degree.

Speculating here of course, I think Axl flat out loves the fact the Robin was in NIN and was not hired solely on his ability as player, but somewhat on his association with a band Axl had fixated on.

 

I never mentioned Richard.


/jarmo

I know. I did.  :P

I don't think it hurt that Robin had been in NIN, but I don't think it was the most important thing.

He just happened to be available when GN'R needed a guitar player.



/jarmo

It's impossible to quantify the factors involved, however I feel his involvement in NIN was indeed a major factor.  Not the only reason, but big reason nonetheless.

And what about trying to sogn Chris Vrenna for GN'R? He didn't play for Circle... Face it, Axl wanted to make his own pretty hate machine I mean his own Nine Inch Nails.

Yep, I forgot about his pursuit of Vrenna.

More fuel to the fire for sure.

Oh so by your logic that must mean that Slash and Duff wanted to make an STP album because they got Scott right?

Robin was not in NIN when axl first saw him, and again just because Chris and Robin played with live NIN does not mean anything since neither of them helped write a single note on only NIN album.

Ok so Vrenna was involved with GNR. this answers my question from before- I knew it, it's true.

I wonder if there were any less prolific members of NIN's circle that Axl brought in.

Kudos to who can come up with any more

You know, isn't that pretty much what Slash and Duff did do? Make an STP album? Contraband sounds a shit load more like STP then GNR, and not just because Weiland is singing. Style is very STP but with more guitar solos.

Are you saying Axl had no idea who Robin was before he and Matt saw him at the circus?

I dont know if he laid down any tracks but I know he was asked, but he was too buy with other stuff like doing music for video games ( I think it was Alice he was working on when Axl asked him)

I dont know I am not Axl, you would have to ask him that. Axl my never have seen Finck play? before seeing him at that show since Finck only toured with NIN and was never on any of their albums. since Trent played everything at that point in time.

A bit naive to even assume that was the first time he was made aware of Robin Finck, don't you think?

Listen, Axl is a BIG fan of NIN. There is NO Way NO How that he didn't know Robin Finck first as the Robin Finck, NIN guitarist.

Get fucking real.

Exactly.

Vrenna, Finck, "Oh My God"...

From the sublime to the ridiculous, as it continues.

Unless Axl saw NIN live which I guess he didnt nice Matt showed Axl his playing at the Cirus show when Axl said I want that guy to play lead. You really think if Axl saw his playing before that he wouldnt have said something before seeing him at the Cirus show?

Here is an analogy Gilby Clark with gnr. If you were a huge gnr fan in 1992 and didnt get to see them live on the UYI tour, then you would really have no clue about his guitar ability since before that point he never played on a gnr album or any album ?you heard. ?Understand?

Axl may know who he was and who he played with (NIN) but that doesnt mean he ever heard his playing.
When NIN opened for Gnr i dont think robin was the guitarist. Robin joined nin in 1991 while axl was on the UYI tour, You really think Axl took off time from taht tour to go see robin play with NIN?

Are you saying Axl "may" have known about Robin's involvement with NIN but based his interest soley on seeing him play at the circus?

Again, from the sublime to the.....

anyone who wants to know how relavent reznor is still, need only listen to the new nin single "the hand that feeds." sad sad sad...a pop single.

Not to pick a fight or anything, but how can any of us know Axl's motives for anything he does. I can see why it would be easy to assume Axl wanting Finck because he toured with NIN, thus giving Nu-GN'R some street cred, but in 2005, as much as I love NIN, they are over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool.* If Axl only cared about trends, why didn't he snacth Wes Borland or Jack White (that would have been something!) Not saying White would join, but you get the point.

Oh, that's the gift of Paranoia.


Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

Stylistically, it's the same sound of that Trent brought to the mainstream. 

11 years earler...

It's not a rip-off, but has the typical sounding a la The Downward Spiral.

And all the riffing off Contraband was done by Motley Crue in 1985! And all the riffing off AFD and UYI was done by Aerosmith and the Stones and ZEPPELIN and New York Dolls in the 70's. Everybody nicks off things that happen in the past. There are only so many sounds a guitar can make. Hendrix did everything you could do by the end of 1967-68.

Of course we don't, it's just logical speculation.  Axl's obsession with Nails, the recruitment of several players associated with them and a song that was obviously headed in the industrial direction is fairly blatant circumstantial evidence, don't you think?

As the guy said in "Behind The Music", Axl's bid to stay relevent has taken so long he's always been a step or two behind musically what's going on at any particular time, so give him a few years, Borland or White may be on their way..

As far as Trent/NIN being "over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool*, I couldn't disagree more.  Few artists
transcend the flavor of the moment, Reznor is one of them.  He's considered one of the forefathers of the industrial genre and was the main artist who popularized the style and brought it to the masses. 

Tying this back to Axl, I have absolutely no problem if he chose to move in an NIN direction, I would have preferred he do it in a bit more subtle fashion.

Man, Listen to Einsuterde Noebouten(Sp?),  Jesus and Mary Chain, The The or whatever the arts of noises.

I don't know how many decades earler...

 Falcon, I would have preferred he did it and gotten over it 5 years ago. Hell, there is probably a full album of mixes from that time period-I am sure. :hihi: Axl needs to do what HE does best and I am not sure Industrial is his schtick-don't cater to anybody, make the album you want to make. Unfortunately, I think Axl is still trying to figure out "what he wants". Thus, no record. ?:-\

Man, Listen to ......,? Jesus and Mary Chain,....


Please xcuse me ppbebe, I really have no idea what point you're trying to make but I love Jesus And The Mary Chain, Bobby Gillespie has continued his brilliance seemlessly with Primal Scream as well.

NINE INCH MALES
THE TRENT CONNECTION

What does Axl Rose have in common with Trent Reznor besides a large bank account and a bad case of writer's block? Actually, the reclusive pair also share a fondness for applying the latest technology to howls of pain and anger, and studio pros like drum programmer Chris Vrenna list both as references. Reznor rode the alt-rock revolution to stardom, but few know he had an unlikely, bandanna-sportin' champion from the very beginning: A brief account of W Axl Rose's enduring fascination with the inner workings of the pretty hate machine.

LARS ULRICH: I remember late one night Axl was sitting there telling me about this band called Nine Inch Nails: He was saying, "This is the coolest thing I've ever heard:" And we were all sitting there going, "What the fuck are you talking about?" He had Nine Inch Nails support Guns N' Roses in Europe, and I remember hearing how they got booed off the stage. But he was there when the rest of us were still listening to fucking Judas Priest.

JOSEPH BROOKS: Several years ago, Axl told me to go shopping for CDs for him: He gave me a credit card, and I bought him stuff like Front 242, Nine Inch Nails, KMFDM, early Prodigy-all the early techno stuff. He was really excited by it.


MATT SORUM: Axl was well-versed in what was new and happening: He was the first person to play me Nine Inch Nails: He said, "They're gonna be huge."

GILBY CLARKE: Basically, Axl said, "I want to change the sound of the band. I want to use more industrial type things." He was really into bands like Nine Inch Nails.

CHRIS VRENNA: Axl was always a big Nails fan. I was in Nine Inch Nails for ten years so I went from [playing with] Trent Reznor to Billy Corgan to Axl Rose.


Just A Little Patience - Spin, July 1999 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=71)


There's more than NIN you know.....



/jarmo

Sure there is, but what's the common denominator in each of the quotes?

NIN.

Again speculating, I think Axl has always not only liked Nail music, but he's always envied Trent's "Wizard behind the curtain" existence.

Falcon, some excellent points.

Axl's recruitment of Finck and other members associated with NIN is a valid point.
As far as Axl wanting to stay relevant, it's true that Axl has incorporated bits of an industrial sound to some of the new (new as of '01) songs, but I'd still classify them as "rock." OMG was by far, the most industrail of the bunch.

As for NIN-What I meant when I said "over the hill" was, when I was in high school, a lot of people loved them--jocks, the freaks, all different types. Over a decade after the fact, they still have a lot of fans, but not the same mass appeal. So Reznor's heyday is over, but he still is relevant and has fans, is what I meant to say

Now, Trent Reznor knows what a fan Axl is--why not produce the record himself, if that's what Axl has wanted all along.

That's not quite true, is it? OMG certainly has "industrial" leanings but you'd have to cast your net a bit wider to find band-specific influences for that song; As far as it corrolates to NIN's sound, it bares more relation to the sounds on "Fragile" than any of the previous NIN albums, and I think OMG turned up a little earlier than that album. OMG definately has a more driven, heavy sound than anything from 'Pretty Hate Machine' and it's more musically complex than Trent's efforts on 'Downward Spiral', there's a more blatant effort to integrate the melodic and metalesque sections of OMG than you'd typically find in NIN's pre-Fragile output. I think that the song as a whole bears more relation to european "industrial" bands (at least, the more commercial ones) than the american bands like NIN or Ministry. Of course, the version of the song that we've all heard was only a demo, even the live version sounded less like a typical pseudo-industrial track, courtesy of BH's leads.

Another mention:

Slash: "I wanted him to. You have to know Axl to understand what I'm getting at. Axl's the kind of guy who over-thinks everything. Sometimes it's fucking classic, and sometimes it's just...whatever. And that's cool. But there was a point there where Axl goes: "I'm gonna do a solo record, and I'm gonna get Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro, and the drummer from Nirvana..." and so on. And it's like, he doesn't even know half of these people. He's just pulling them out of the sky. And I was like, "Cool! Do your thing. That way you'll get it out of your system, and when you get back we'll just be Guns N' Roses."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=16

Now that is pretty fucking funny! What a fucking band though...Grohl, Navarro, Reznor and Axl. I guess Axl would have played bass???? Too fuckin funny...Axl is whacked! :rofl: "he doesn't even know half of these people!"-classic. ps wait, I'm sorry, Slash forgot to mention Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam on bass-(since Slash claimed Axl wanted to sound like Pearl Jam at one point). too funny.

That's a consideration too. He might be one of the forefathers of the industrial ROCK.


Although I'm not an expert or something, I dear try.  :D

From what I've learned, there have been many attempts to interpret Dadaism to music since 1910s.
Industrial music is one of the attempts, which started by the label "industrial records" in '70s, and originally not rock based but folk based.
Dada is the art movement that involved intentionally doing things the wrong way to contradict the established values of aestheticism.
So the Industrial music, in short, challenges the idea of music by making noise.

Hence there have been band names like, Coil, Cabaret Voltaire, Einsuterde und Noebouten.
Blixa's chainsaw n pneumatic drill is real kick-ass BTW.

This industrial music movement has made lots of branches. Today's industrial Rock is just one of them.
The bands I wrote earlier are a few examples. Depeche Mode is distantly related.

Possibly Axl had known about them and had a vague idea for creating a certain sort of sound far before he heard of NIN.
I imagine Robins career in chainsaw performance might have been the big attraction for him (and for Trent). It's quite a Dadaist.