Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This is a two part question:

(1) Do you think the hatred of GN'R has lessened among the hipsters and the alt. rock crowd?

(2) Can you think of connections between GN'R and the alt. rock world?

Here's what I can come up with:

1. NIN opened for GN'R.
2. Smashing Pumpkins opened for GN'R.
3. Nu-GN'R has Finck, of NIN.
4. Courtney Love sang "It's so Easy" with Duff. Said she was sorry Kurt badmouthed the band.
5. Duff sat next to Cobain on a plane.
6. Jane's Addiction thanks Duff, Slash on their "Strays" CD.
7. Dave Navaro plays on "Oh My God."

A Perfect Circle Thanks Axl Rose on the; Mer De Noms Album
Chris Pitman makes alternativ music! on his and (Tool drummer) Danny Carey project Zaum.
I will also say that New GNR sounds like alternativ Music! Buckethead.. ? Well, kinda alternativ!

I think when Axl Bashed Alternative music back in the days, he realy meant Nirvana! And the "Grunsh..?"( Dont know how to wright it)

But, hell yeah! There is alot of Alternative connections with GNR today.. But i think back in the days it was important for GNR to hold on the Stright ahead Rock N Roll image!

I think the alt rock crowd sees GNR a little differently than they did in the early 90`s.

Back then, GNR was the biggest band around, and the alt bands stood for almost shunning success. Make no sense to me. Cobain did not want to be a rock star, but did things to ensure his legacy. Kinda hypocritical, ya think?

Don't forget Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson and Brain.

NIN, Replacements and Primus, not exactly mainstream hard rock.



/jarmo

True.
So after what i have heard from the New GNR songs.. i would call it Alternative Metal/Rock or somthing like that...
But there is alot more alternative music today, then there was 10 years ago. I would also say that the Illusion albums have som alternative sounds at times.

well,Axl and gnr have never told that they hate alt rock and they hate someone,but alt rocks bands(especially members of Nirvana) talked many many shit about gnr!!!

After that hard core gnr fans hated Nirvana.

That's the story,something like sex pistols and Led Zepellin

 heard My World?
 heard Coma?
 heard Estranges?

The negative perception remains (stateside) within the industry and is based on the scene they emerged from, not the "sound" of their material. ?The LA scene of the late 80's and early 90's represents everything the alterna/college rock movement of that same time period railed against.

It's a guiit by association thing.

Are you sure that such hatred still exists?

I've noticed there's heaps of unreasonable hatred toward Axl/present GNR among the heavy metal n the reactionary GN'R fans (some twisted ones).

But I haven't eva heard any fans of the hipsters or the alt. rock hating GNR in particular.
Many of them are just not into any classic/old school rock bands in general.


Perhaps I am rather an alternative rock fan myself. Even Jimmy Page says Zep was alternative of that era. Basically I don't give a fuck about whatever the genre is. Hell a few few days ago I was suddenly into hot chocolate.



Yeah, but more precisely isn't it sex pistols and the Rolling Stones?

Well, Dont wanna be rude to you, sorry if i was!
But, i thik that Some songs on the illusion albums has Elements og Alternative.. Whats the defination on alternative? I guess that means that the music has alot og different elements in it, and not only Rock N Roll Rythm, but more different rythms in the same song! Illusions ?has that! Appetite is a more "stright ahead Rock album". But i think there is alot more of trixzing an mixzing! with dirffernet styles on the Illusion albums.. With other untradisionel intstruments and things like that! Sorry if you mean that my defination og Alt is wrong!

axl had a great rant about Alternative!!1
what is the alternative rock?
Alternative from what?from guns n roses?

I think you're right.
the primary meaning of the alternative in music is essentially something unconventional or unorthodox.

The synonyms of Alternative is 1) option (n) 2) Substitute 3) unusual /marginal/different
I'd take the definition 3).

FYI, illusion is a synonym of nirvana.

- Axl became friend of Weezer (at least, the band was called indie some time ago) guys at Summer Sonic in 2002.
- Moby was one of the producers of the new album.
- Buckethead - need to say more about him?
-  Axl has been into Radiohead and another alternative rock bands...

No we are talking about GN'R now. Read the topic.

And I think

- GN'R is very alternative (read "unconventional" in the definition #3) now

- most of the current GN'R members like the alternative music (I hear AXL was a big fan of Nirvana's works)

Didn't an ex-pearljam Drummer audition for the GnR opening before Josh Freese?

also

Faith No-More, Soundgarden and maybe Chili Peppers opened for them

Scott Weiland (STP) and Dave Kushner (sp?) (Suicidal Tendencies) are in VR  :)

I agree with you ppbebe
There is no doubt in my ears, that the new GNR have some Alternative influence! But it dosent make teh music itself to put under the genere Alternativ!
It sounds to like GNR are basicaly inspired by bouth Metal, Rock! But also abit Industrial and Alternativ!

To 3strang3d!
I never said GNR made Alternativ Rock/Alternative Metal as theyr main Genere! And if we got back to 91` I wouldent say GNR had any elements of Alternative. But when we see it from the view from 2005, and the word "Alternative" has developed and have a bit different meaning then in 91`, i would
like to say that Illusion albums have some songes with some Elements that we concider as Alternative in 2005! Its not only Pearl Jam And Nirvana, And Alice In Chains who are concidered as Alternative today! Back in the days they were because they came and made something new! But its along time ago! Today its much more difficult to put a band under a plot! But when i see bands which have the "Alternative" image today! Mailyn, Tool, NIN, APC, and so on! They dont sound as Pearl Jam AT ALL!
 Well anyway! I think from todays view on the Illusion albums, i would like to say that songs like My World, Coma, Estranged, Bad Apples, Breakdown and Locomotive have some Alternative Elements... ?:yes:

I think he was at some Radiohead concert in late '90s.

Oh, also, Axl said to Kurt Loder in 99 how he liked the lastest (released) Fiona Apple's album.

The derision has definitely lessened with time.  Not many kids, when they are first getting into music start off with the alternative scene.  Many bands today grew up listening to GnR or watching them on MTV, at least initially.

Also, I think that the vitriol leveled against the excesses of that scene has totally waned.  They railed against rock stars and when they disappeared, people rather missed them.  The anti-rock star didn't seem like such a good idea after all.

That's your problem, but you're really missing a great artist.

And I'm not saying GNR music is alternative. But it can have some influence... And it can be really good, like when Axl added the piano.

1)Yes. we should be able to say our opinions as far as they're not against the board rules, such as "try to stick to the topic".

2)I guess the opinion of the band is somewhat similar to Nytunz n co incl me.
On the whole GN'R is a non-standardised band that doesn't fall into a ready-made genre other than rock.
Again we take the definition#3. We are not the tools of the media/the industry.

3) It's obvious Voodoo was replying to the question NO2 of the first post.
Also illusion is brought up as the relevant reference to the topic of this thread.
Otherwise it would be called da off-topic.

Well, i guess i have said my opinions on this on the "Guns N' Roses and alternative rock: connections"

No need to create a new thread for that.

- merged -

 : ok:

Well, i guess the Mods, have the final word here.

But anyway. I guess no one doubts that alot of the current GNR members have done "alternative" music in the past.
Anyone else in here who can hear the Alternative elements In the Illusion albums?

Uh, it's not like it's just one member and it's not like VR and the "let's just rock" way of making music. :P

Indeed. Thanks for clearing things up, ppbebe. : ok:

Well! Like i said before! I dont think i said Illusion album are "Influenced" on Alternative music. What i said is! On The illusion you can find elements of Alternative!
How many bands in the Genere Alternative Axl, Slash or whoever liked or was Influence of dosent matter, but we know atleast that Axl had some. Like NIN..! Faith No More.....!....! But anyway! Lets take the the Rythm cange in the Coma for example! And the way Coma is build up! It wasnt tradisional GNR when it came out! Axl use some voice editor at some parts, and they put in som talking and so on!
 My World! This is a song Axl Rose is the main man behind... You can clearly hear that this is an Indus. song. And the first time people heard it they went ?:o
And some may ?:'( about it! I dont think there is anything more to say about that song!
 Breakdown and Bad Apples and Estranged also have some Elements, and i guess most out there understand what i mean! And i guess you also Understand me pretty well!
 U know! Thats what made GNR so God Damn special! They made music with alot of different genere elements in it! "Bluse, Metal, Hardrock, Reggea, and even som parts of Rap on theyr Live performence! And Alternative! Taking Dizzy and Zig Zag on board made most of thouse elements! Also Axl`s piano parts on the Illusion records....

So Thats it! ? What would you call Guns N`Roses? `Clean tradisional Hard Rock? well.. it wasnt tradisional Hard Rock who made them take over the World! I guess u can sign your name under that! They did somthing Different!

That?s the way a thread goes. Since this is not a bloody chat room.


Did you even read my post?

Okay, on the My World thing i WROTE wrong. I meant Alternative. Sorry! Well! Its okay by me if u dont agree with me! But i still hear the Alternative and Metal in Some GNR songs! Metal is an element who is even clearer than Alternative!! In the drums Guitar rif and some Vocal!
 But anyway! I will stil say that the songs i have mention a couple of times already has Alternative elements.. I dont know why you have a problem hearing that.. Maybe you have another defination on Alternative then me! Maybe you are right, maybe i am wrong! I dont know! And until you prove other ways, my opinion stands strong as a Mountain. The Indus. sound and whay they do My World, would i call Alternative elements. They Way they suddnly used piano/Keyboard and other effects on Estranged. The Use of Different effect and the way they build up songs like Breakdown, Coma, and Bad Apples... I call it Alternative Elements.. Longer songs, and rythm change! Not the short RocknRoll/Punk songs u find on Lies for eksample...

What does it all matter? Good music is good music, only idiots (punk/alt. kids) put a great band or song into categories. Shit like this has got to stop for the sake of music in general.

I think that Kurt Cobain had a small d..k,so he hated Axl

Actually, the industry itself categorizes music these days, nothing to do with the punk/alt kids, ?
they and their mentality are merely a by product of the things that went on in England in '77
and the explosion that happened stateside in the fall of '91. ?The latter's effects are still prevelent in the American music industry to this day.

I realize that industry must categorize music for the sake of business/advertising/etc, but I think Gunner80 also makes a valid point - here is a snippet from an NYTimes article:

"The format in the last couple of years has gone through an identity crisis," said Kevin Weatherly, program director of KROQ, a closely watched alternative powerhouse in Los Angeles. "You have stations that are too cool, that move too quickly and are only playing the coolest music, which doesn't at the end of the day attract enough of the audience. Or you have the other extreme, dumb rock, red-state rock that the cool kids just flat out aren't into."

Who's doing the blatant (and offensive, not to mention inaccurate) categorizing here? 

It seems to me that Mr Weatherly is acting as a spokesman for both industry as well as the 'cool' punk/alt kids.   His categorizing is so laughable, it's not surprising that people are moving to satellite radio.  No one likes to be told they're dumb or have assumptions made about their politics just because they like listening to 'Cherry Pie' on occasion (yes, I chose a dumb song on purpose).  And it's primarily the alt. rock side that likes to alienate music listeners by insulting them, and hence maintaining their own elite status.

Wouldnt it be hysterical if KROQ got JACK'd one fine day?  :rofl: To be honest, I see the flaws of these JACK clones popping up everywhere, but at the same time....listening to this formatless, jockless station is much more enjoyable than the average modern rock station.  If that makes me dumb, fine.

I've never heard Estranges.  Is that a good song?

Who cares where the players come from as long as they are great and and play gn'r good right :rofl:

me to,never hear estranges,maybe it is alternative song

Just tryn to be alternative funny? Or just HeavyMetal Brain damage?  ::)

I think the alternative crowed dont like GN'R coz all the "Alternative" people I know hates the band coz of the stage show of lights N' pyros N' the Rock Star image. But Its not only GN'R they dont like, Its also bands like KISS, AREOSMITH, ALICE COOPER, and other acts that invole huge stage productions. These people like the pesent look of the bands like Nirvana and Alice in chains. Dont get me wrong I like Nirvana and other grunge type tunes but the people who are in love with the grunge personality, despise the Rock N' Roll image of the legendary Bands.


 :peace: