Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was surprised to learn that when Gilby was injured back on the Illusion tour for a short time, Izzy filled in for a few shows.
How did he agree to come back after leaving in bad circumstances? Surely their was tension between him and Axl especially with all the shit Axl used to say about Izzy before duble taking jive at each show. How did those shows with Izzy go?

Axl called him and asked. They paid him and so he agreed to play.



/jarmo

I always thought that Izzy left in good terms... Axl use to talk with some anger about him but I think that was because he feels a little hurt for his departure, considering they were together since the begining...

If my memory serves , the anti-izzy rants before DTJ didnt start until after Izzy did those shows and then left again.

there's a radio interview with slash and axl (rockline??) where they both speak very poorly of izzy and the few shows that he filled in, pertty unfairly in my opinion - but what do i know? i guess izzy was still smacked out his eyeballs at the time. it took him a year or two to get clean after he left.

I remember reading a long time ago, that Izzy was paid 2 MILLION dollars, to do those two shows. :nervous:


You can shoot up a helluva lot of heroin, with 2 MILLION dollars. : ok:

I?m not sure, but i think he did 5 shows or something like that

I remember reading that GN'R did not only pay him generously, Izzy also set some conditions. GN'R where supposed to go up on time at each show. And extensive rants by Axl where forbidden... Allthough the fans got what they wanted, I must have been pretty hard for Axl to swallow... After that he propably tried to catch up, ranting about Izzy.

Axl is a bit of a spoiled-rotten little Bia-Tch-Boy for sure.

Speaking from a music fan's perspective, I'd rather just hear the band play some kickass shit, as opposed to hearing Axl, or anyone else go off on a fucking rant.

I pay hard-earned dollars to go see a live show.

Motley Crue kicked some serious ass up here in Toronto!!!!!  :yes: : ok: :peace: :smoking: :beer: :o

Yeh two of those shows were the Milton Keynes gigs in 1993. I was so chuffed cos Izzy was playing. I had not seen GnR play before when he was playing. I had only ever seen them when Gilby had joined! Whilst it was cool I never really thought Izzy was too in to it. I know he that kind of cool, chilled out style anyway but he never really looked to in to it! But fuck I may be wrong, I was only 17 and pissed as a parrott! That was the night when I was fortunate enough to meet Axl and Duff afterwards albeit for a few seconds!!!

nah, he was clean and had been for a while, that's one of the reasons he left the band was his conscious objection to the  drug and alcohol abuse one one side and Axls controlling personality on the other.
Izzy got clean shortly after he nearly went to jail for pissing on a plane while drunk. He was ordered to be sober by the court, submit urine weekly or be jailed.
peace,
Intercourse.

I found this very interesting to when i found out a few months ago..Wouldnt mind seeing a dvd of it

I really think that Izzy wouldve made a great addition to either Velvet Revolver or the New Guns. I mean I like fink but he butchers Slash's fuckin solos. And who the fuck is Dave Kushner?...

But wait, I remember someone saying that Izzy tried to Jam with the members of VR and they js werent into it or something.  :peace:

why exactly did Izzy leave. i've heard different reasons from different people.

Check the Ex-Gunner section, it was explained there a few days ago.



/jarmo

Yeah but that would make them literally GnR (early Illusions era) minus Axl lol

I wish people would just admit that Izzy was the brains behind the band. Admitting that doesn't mean you hate Axl. Axl was the voice, Izzy was the brains. Deal with it!!

i think that gilby broke a finger,abd then axl called izzy,and thats the story!!!

axl and izzy are friends from childhood,and i think they have good terms now

Exactly my feelings. Ive always wanted too say exactly that but I was afraid the Axl worshipers would strongly disagree. Izzy brought something to the band that Gilby in my eyes was unable to replace. To me personally, the spirit and vibe of appetite and the majority of those songs is Izzy Stradlin. Alot of people argue GnR died when Slash left or when the UYI tour got overbloated and cheesy, but for me its when Izzy left. I strongly think that had Izzy stayed with GnR, they might very well still be around today, and the UYI tour would never have gotten as cheesy as it did. I think Izzy indirectly kept everyone, particularily Axl in check, yet also brought out the best personally and musically from all of them and that to me is more valuable and precious then the absence of Slash..

I think Izzy woulda been in velvet revolver except of his "phbia" now for lead singers. Duff even said himself how Izzy was there writing songs etc etc but as soon as the time came to audtion lead singers izzy left and wasnt heard from anymore.  ;D

I really don't think Izzy can be that "scarred" from his time with Axl that he can't be in a band with a frontman ever again.  I think there was some other reason for him not continuing with VR.  Not sure what it is though.

Not only was Izzy the musical genius in GNR, he was also a marketing genius as well. Its almost like he was the "manager" of GNR. The band has been in an utter state of limbo since the day he left. The continuation of the Illusion tour in 92 and 93 only disguised this fact. Once the tour ended, everyone realized that the band had turned into a trainwreck.

who knows? I'm just going on quotes from slash and duff.

i think that Axl Rose was a menager and visionary of the band

Izz stradkin said 1991"Axl saw these(gnr glory) 1985"

Axl as the visionary? Yeah right. I think that was part of the marketing plan, propping Axl up as the genius. Why has GNR been like a chicken with its head cut off since the day Izzy left? Every single member and ex member of GNR has done something of significance since the early 90's. Except Axl. Visionary? Genius? Main songwriter? I don't think so. Axl has the most original voice in the history of rock. But he wasn't what propelled GNR to the top. Without Izzy Stradlin, Appetite for Destruction doesn't exist.

without paul tobias there would be no guns n roses.

erm , nevermind.  :rofl:

Axl's Paul Tobias comment was definitely the dumbest thing that he ever said.

Probably not if you think about it......



/jarmo

With all the respect, it was the dumbest comment ever.Period.

Axl considers the new Guns N Roses Guns N' Roses

So, if it wasn't for Paul, there wouldn't be Axl's Guns N' Roses.

Pretty simple statement really.

Overbloated and cheesy? I don't fucking think so.....

They did have a whole horns section and a Matt Sorum drum solo - sounds pretty overbloated to me.

Not really as overbloated as Iron Maiden with all those creepy looking things on their stages....

I agree with Axls main man. If Izzy had never left, we would have at least 3 or 4 more GNR albums by now. Even if other members had left. Instead we have nothing.

Yeah!sure!
And I prefer Chinese Democracy!!!! :D

Yo Jimmy Lofton..your wrong man. While I agree that Izzy was the grounding source of Axl and he helped keep Axl in check, Izzy's involvement on the illusions is very minimal. Countless interviews speak of Izzy only providing one or two takes on songs, his guitar is almost non existent throughout the album. He definitely was a big aspect of GNR, but they seemed to have recorded fine without him. hell shotgun blues, civil war, and locomotive dont even have Izzy playing on them at all.

If Axl had saw eye to eye with Izzy we would have had more GNR albums, but you cant throw around statements like that, Slash, Duff and Axl clearly had a different vision and they still worked fine playing the material without him for another two years, choosing and selecting The Spaghetti Incident among other things.

If Izzy was around in 1994/1995 all he would have done was get pissed at Axl's direction and would have walked again, there werent going to be any more albums with Izzy.

He wrote half or more of the illusions.So check the facts first.

Izzy's involvement minimal? Thats hilarious!! Izzy wrote half of Illusions. Why dont you go look at Illusions, delete the songs Izzy wrote or co-wrote, and then see what kind of an album you have left.

Dont confuse Izzy's playing involvement on the UYIs with his actual songwriting contributions to it.  I think there is some interview in which Slash says he had to play Izzy's parts when they were recording because Izzy wasnt into it, but that's an entirely different issue from Izzy's creative input to the albums: Double Talkin Jive, Dust N' Bones, Pretty Tied Up, YCBM, 14 years, Perfect Crime, You aint the first - off the top of my head.  I have read that a lot of UYI was written (not recorded) in the Appetite days and so Izzy was definitely a part of that.

I am huge Izzy fan dont get me wrong. His Far Below Me Now is one of my all time favorites. The whole "if Izzy stayed they would have had multiple records thing just annoys me, if Axl had the same mentality as Izzy than sure, but thats not the case.

Songs without Stradlin input:

Back of Bitch
November Rain
The Garden
Garden of Eden
Dont Damn Me
Dead Horse
Coma
Civil War
Yesterdays
Knockin On Heavens Door
Get It the Ring
Shotgun Blues
So Fine
Breakdown
Locomotive
Estranged
My World

I dont want to attack Izzy in any sort of way but he always seemed to be the outcast of the group. Slash chilled with Duff and Matt. Axl had himself, his shrinks and Stephanie. Izzy went alone, just him and his dogs. I like that mentality, but I dont think that if Izzy had stayed lots of records would have come out.

So Welsh, you think if Izzy had never left we would have still had this 12 year wait? For many years of this wait all Axl had was instrumentals. No lyrics whatsoever. Izzy would have filled that void immediately.

Thats not the question, the fact of the matter is that Izzy would have never stayed, so it cant even be considered because he would have never dealt with the terms that Axl was throwing out.


If Guns N' Roses was alive, happy and Axl and Izzy were on good terms and collaborating together there is no doubt in my mind we would have had at least 2-3records.

I agree Welsh. I think Izzy left at the perfect time. He seen the trainwreck before it actually occured. Izzy Stradlin..The Prophet Of Doom! LMAO!!

I see your point, but I tend to disagree with it too.  As you say, "Axl had himself..."  and Slash chilled with Duff & Matt after Izzy had already left.   I think he went through an 'outcast' period because he hated the fame so much, but he hangs out with Slash & Duff a lot more now.   Duff and he were on Mark Lanegan's album together, and we all know about him helping Slash & Duff write some material in their pre-Scott Weiland stage of VR, and Slash has mentioned Izzy introducing him to The Darkness.  Basically, I think his estrangement from the others was a temporary thing.  He even tried going to Axl's house and make up with him.


I agree with what you said here: "If Izzy was around in 1994/1995 all he would have done was get pissed at Axl's direction and would have walked again" - since the other members eventually all walked out too. 

Thats one fucking brilliant track list.........

Not as brilliant as the real tracklist.

There , much better IMHO.  ;D

 :peace:

The garden is one of my fav. >:(

Although this is a pretty good tracklist, without Izzy's lyrical,backing vocals, and guitar contributions to the records, Illusions would have been weak.

Now that's MUCH better

Sorry that I gave my opinion  ::)  Maybe I dont like a couple songs and consider them filler. Whatever.  : ok:

Izzy was clean in 1991 - he left because he was trying to get clean and found it hard around a bunch of junkies.

---

On another note, I know I am a strong Izzy supporter, and prefer his solo work to GNR, but for some of you people to say Izzy was not important is pretty shocking. It shows just how much you really know about GNR. Every member of a band has some kind of input, and in Izzys case he had one hell of a lot of input  :P

During Illusion tour he arrived just half an hour before the gig, he was already clean by then and found it hard to deal with Slash and Duff cause they where always wasted and walking around like zombies. He said when he came back in '93 nothing had changed and they didn't even laugh anymore on stage, they where too wasted and it all had become a routine. He said he hung out more with the roadies.

Here are some nice Duff quotes from '99:

MG: At what point did you think it was gonna come back together?

DM: We started going to Slash's house. I'd gone out on the road promoting my first solo record [1993's Believe In Me]. I was touring Europe and Japan, then I got sick. That's when I started visiting Slash at his house. He has a little studio there and we had a batch of songs. But ya' know what? Without Izzy, we just weren't writing the old way. We had a bunch of great songs, but the way we used to write wasn't all sitting in a room and trying to force ourselves to be a family. We just were But there was a point up there where it was looking good and we started cranking out songs, but it just started falling apart.

"and low-profile ex Guns guitarist Izzy Stradlin. In fact, "Put You Back, " a McKagan/Stradlin effort, has the Stradlin stamp in the slide guitar and memorably cool vibe""

HP: You got former GN'R bandmates Slash and Izzy Stradlin to work on this record, did it take a big effort to get their contributions?
Duff: Not any effort. On the song Mezz, Slash called and said, "Can I come play on this man?" I said, "We've got a spot for a solo." As for Izzy, Todd Sullivan, my A&R guy on the record said, "We need one track -- a Lord of Your Thighs mid-tempo rocker." I'd just written 29 songs. I didn't want to force writing a song, so I decided to call Izzy. I said , "Dude, they said I need a mid-tempo rocker." He just chuckled. So he wrote Put You Back, and a b-side called Riding Home.

Izzy left halfway through the Illusions tour. We still were holding on to that band family thing. And like a trooper, he came back out on the road with us -- even though his heart wasn't in it -- when Gilby broke his wrist. Later, he told me we were like zombies. Nobody on the stage was even talking to each other. It wasn't because we hated each other, we were just kind of going through the motions. So scary. In Europe and South America, especially, it was fanatical, and we were just dazed. WE WERE F.CKING ZOMBIES! Izzy couldn't believe the change.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lobby/1117/duffsbeautif3.html

You consider "The Garden" filler? What drugs are you on?

Right now? None. Ask me again saturday.  :hihi:  Anyways , I do think the garden is filler , but that my opinion and nothing more. It can be your fav GNR song , thats cool .. I'm not going to accuse you of being on drugs or whatever vbecause you like or dislike a song different then me.

I , personally , just cant see anything about the song "the garden" that appeals to me.   ???  I dont like the lyrics at all and I'm not very keen on the music aspect either. Moreover , I hated the video.

well said.  Looking above, you werent the one who turned this thread off-topic by giving their opinion on the brilliance of tracklists, so your opinion is just as valid...even if I dont agree with it  ;)

IzzyDutch, you should have written Izzy's biography with all the information you have.  :)

I'd just like to point out that Izzy was involved in the arrangement of Live and Let Die

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

Hehe thanks ;)

You can't hear his guitar so well though, pretty much like in every song, no offense

That's cause Axl and Slash made sure Izzy's guitar was burried in the mix. The reason for that was that Izzy wasn't involved anymore, in the studio and on stage. And the reason for that was that Izzy wasn't enjoying it anymore. And we all know why ;)