Here Today... Gone To Hell!

That's something that bothers me when fans wonder if Chinese Democracy will be great.
Take a look around and ponder.
Rock is dead. We don't have big bands anymore and channels like MTV don't boost upcoming rock bands.
At least rock isn't that popular anymore if not dead. It's been long since we've heard a great hard-rock album.
You think UY1 would be on charts if it was released now? Would bands like Zeppelin, Queen or U2 even appear today?
What if Chinese Democracy's really great? A few will understand it. Most people don't have sentiment in music anymore. They will not appreciate Chinese Democracy, only hardcore fans and people who still hear rock music will do.
We should hold our enthusiasm about C.D. When it comes out, even if it's wonderful we may see it not able enough to reach the people.

What does it matter if C.D. sells so well? Axl has stated in the past few years that if it does well then great, if not then fine. I really don't think he cares if it sells or not, and do we? I could care less if it sells 5,000 units or 5,000,000 units. I just want the damn thing, like the rest of you!

There are not many artists out there that do care, especially at the financial level he's at right now. The most important things to consider here are:
a) GN'R put out the album;
b) it reaches far far into GN'R's and Axl's creative abilities;
c) us hardcore fans appreciate it (we may not "love" it, but we need to appreciate it); and,
d) whatever GN'R and Axl do it inspires them and Axl to continue working on music for the rest of their lives.

Lets stop being so negative about this whole situation and embrace it. When we all get the new album we're going to be looking back on all this with some seriously amazing memories. It's like when Christmas Day is over, or a holiday you've been waiting for for so long is over, you look back and all you can think about is how amazing it was the week before Christmas, or the week before the holiday, with all those wicked expectations. Those days are almost better than the actual thing when it happens..... my thoughts anyway.

/Aaron.

CD or anything Axl Rose puts out musically will NEVER fail.? Axl is way too talented and intelligent to have that happen.

I know we all want CD.....................Hell, at this point, I'd take a disc of Axl singing in the shower. ? :D

Rock n' Roll is dead.........but Axl will make a comeback when he's ready to do just that.  I think 2006 will be Axl's time to shine. :yes:

Patience will pay off someday.? Have faith. ;D

Rock isn't dead.  It may be very sick, but it's still alive.  If Motley Crue can come back, put out a platinum selling 2-disc greatest hits, and sell out arenas all over the country than so can Axl.  The only thing that would hurt Axl is that Motley has all the original members back.  But even so, I think the Crue have proven that there is still a large audience that wants to hear that kind of music.

Considering IRS wich is said not even beeing in the top 10 tracks of the album...it will be huge.
It can't fail.

That's the problem. We don't have new great bands to brace rock. We trust to old superbands like Motley Crew.

Of course Chinese Democracy will have a success. I just don't expect like the Illussion's days success because of the musical scene factor.

Unfortunately, commercial success is equal to Axl's success.
If it sells, only then people (and critics maybe) will say it was worth the effort all these years.

Ya know, if every Gn'R fan in the world buys this album when it comes out, there ain't no way it can not sell well! There are well over 2,000,000 Gn'R fans, and if they all buy the album, then its bound to sell well.
Methinks the main problem is with critics. Some people follow others thoughts, and if the critics say that it sucks, then the people who follow critics will also... althouuuuughh..... I find myself hard to believe that fans of a band who put out Get In The Ring would be so hard pressed to follow what critics think...

Naaah, Gn'R don't have any problems. All they need to do is:
1. Make Zakk Wylde be the replacement for BH and
2. RELEASE THE FUCKIN ALBUM!!!

New exciting rock bands are few and far between, but rock is not dead. I think you can blame the record companies for that. They sign people with dollar signs on their mind, not the artistic value of the music.

If it is promoted correctly and it is even a medocre album, CD will due well. The GNR fans past & present will get it and mainsream people will get it just out of curiousity.

i don't care how many copies it sells, wether that 10 or 10 million.

The only copy that will matter will be mine.

The only copy that will matter will be mine.


ME 2  : ok: (my copy of course and not yours)

LOL, and when was that exactly? ?Axl's made maybe one statement in the past few years, and he definetaly did not say that. ?He is the one determined to "take the world over Guns N' Roses style". ?The bottom line is, Axl cares a lot about how successful this album is going to be.

why should I care if it sells?

some people seem to be keen to see "their" stars famous and recognized and doing well --- like those 12-year old girls who wait in line for 7 hours to see their star so they can say, "I did that for him", and furiously defend him when you tell 'em he's crap.

Axl owes me nothing. I owe him nothing. I don't care if the critics tear it apart or if it won't get any airplay. I'm just going to buy the bloody thing and by the way then --- then --- I'm going to decide if I like it.

all else is bull

The Darkness, Sum 41, The Mars Volta, Children of Bodom, Black Label Society, Slipknot, Mudvane, System of a Down, Greenday, The Black Sabbath comeback, Velvet Revolver, The Motley Crue comeback, the Judas Priest comeback, Damageplan, Atreyu.....need I continue? 

You guys got it all wrong.  Rock isnt dead, Rock stars are dead. Theres no rock stars anymore, theres just a bunch of little punks that sing about how there life sucks. NOBODY wants to here that shit. Y do u think rap become so big "Because they fucken act cool and dont give a FUCK"! Part of the problem is the younger generation acting like if a rock star acts cool he is a sell out. Which all started with the Grunge era, which was the gayest fagiest moment ever in the history of music. Anyways Axl is a rock star, HE acts cool, He is cool, And he dont give a fuck. Because of that the album will be successful and of course im sure the music will be great

Exactely! I made a thread about this a few months back. I couldnt agree more with you. Unfortunately a lot of peopel on this board took my post the wrong way and thought I was selfish or something or didnt care about the music.

Like I said a long time ago, there are no more rock stars. No more fur coats or sneakers with ur name on it. No more attitude. Axl had that. He was the last American rockstar. Like him or hate him he created a buzz, a controversey..good or bad. Point is he was being talked about. We havnt had that in a decade. And it sux.

You can tell Axl still has some of that rock star attitude but Im not sure if it would fly in todays world. He would be labbeled selfish, etc nowadays. I guess you have to whine and date Britany Spears or talk a big game nowadays in order to be consisered a rock badass...fuk that

anyways good point man

everything green day has released off of american idiot has done well.  : ok:

You have to have faith that the album could be great enough to change the tide. Just because rock is very weak right now doesn't mean it won't be back on top again. The right thing just needs to come out and this album and band has the potential to bring it back...

----Johnny Rotten in 197?  :P

Was the scene when GN'R were about to debut so different from that of today? ???

Well I consider that Axl doesnt give a damn about how many albums C.D. will reach to sell... but what is pretty clear to me is that... if he sells less than the expected he will be in financial problems...  remember:

Chinese democracy... the MOST expensive album in HISTORY....

For years, i've gone to stores in the mall... Never have they carried GNR stuff... I'd look and all i'd see is 'white zombie', 'metallica', 'nin', and whatever other bands were hot at the time... Even sometimes 'ACDC', 'Zepplin' and 'floyd'... But NEVER GN'R..... But go to "Hot topic' or 'Spener Gifts' among others... GNR is all over the place.. Its not for no reason either... Kids nowadays are getting into them... And real good rock is getting popular again... Once the album comes out i think it will turneverything around... But Axl has to do it soon, before to many people get tired of waiting, if its not to late   

No its not. ? ::)

lol , the video for micheal jacksons song "scream" cost more then democracy album. In fact the promotion itself cost more then the democracy recording process. You can only guess how much it cost to record.  :o

democracy most expensive album ever? not likely.

Jackson's Invincible ?  : ok:

yeah , thats the album! like I said , the VIDEO for one song cost more then the 13 million spent on democracy.

then the promotion , I mean he had 3 giant statues made and floated up rivers and crap.  ::)

The statue promotion and the Scream video was from the History album...

Invincible was the album that came after, I think the most expensive ever made.  In the U.S. it sold what?  A couple of million?

I think of course that the most important thing is that the album is released soon. BUT I do care if it sells. I want G n' R to be big again. To make a difference. Maybe they can't be as big as they used to. But it would be awesome if they would sell out stadiums and the album sold well. Axl is one of the last truly interesting and inspiring persons in music today. I mean Bono, James Hetfield, there just not interesting anymore. If they ever was. Around Axl there's something mystical, a bit like Michael Jackson. We don't know that much about him. He's not overexposed like a lot of other jerks.

The critics say the same thing. If one will praise it, a lot of others will follow. They're not very independent. A lot of them will most probably give some background information and take that into the evaluation. Which is bull. But with G n' R there is so much bagage it will be hard for them to just listen to the material and give it a fair judgement on the music alone.

U2's "How to dismantle an Atomic Bomb", went straight to No. 1 in 35 countries when it was released last November and Vertigo stayed at the Top of the UK Download Chart for about 5-6 weeks. and you are telling me Rock is Dead.

also all U2 STADIUM gigs are totally sold-out in Europe for this summer. In Paris the 80.000 tickets in "Stade de France" were sold within...3 hours. As a consequence, U2 added a new Paris date at Stade de France, once again, the other 80.000 tickets were sold within a few hours once again. In less than 24H, U2 sold 160.000 tickets for their two Paris show in July. Rock music is not dead.
I'm also sure that Oasis is able to sell-out a stadium here in Paris whenever they want. Last year, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Metallica sell-out another Paris stadium called "Parc des Princes" (55/60.000 people).
---> when CD is released and with 2 or 3 great singles and a good promotion, Guns N' Roses could be able to play a stadium here in Paris. But the promotion? must be way bigger than the one in 2002 (exept the VMA, 2002 the band was poorely promoted, where is the killer mediatic phenomenon of the UYI erea?). Guns N' Roses will go nowhere if the promotion is as weak as what it was in 2002. Guns N' Roses is a big name, there will have no problem to play stadiums and sell million and million albums again, people just need to know the band (or the name) is back. It's a question of information. Inform people. Don't let them is the dark. put a HUGE poster on champs-elys?es in front of Virgin Megastor (20x20 metters) saying "Guns N' Roses- Chinese Democracy- new album in sales now" during 15/20 days. Pay the price for it it's not important because the payback will be much bigger. The key is the promotion. That's all.

Rock is back, it's not dead. It used to be dead.

If it was dead Motley Crue would not have sold out shows the way they did. It's as simple as that. So what if we put our trust in the old heroes, maybe they can light up some young morons and make them go "thats what I wanna do, fuck this 'i wanna die' crap, lets start a band and have a beer instead".

I talk to kids all the time and they all want rock. All the way down to 10 year olds...they want rock..

Yes.

Rap was still "new", old school rockers (Stone,Alice Cooper, Aerosmith,Floyd) had been making a comeback, and hair bands ruled the world (Crue/Jovi/Poison/Warrant).

These days "rock" is either a mix of rap and cookie monster voice nonesense, poppy punk crap (I can't understand how the 2 can be mixed with a straight face), and dark glummy .. ah just go kill yourself already .. shit. GnR were/are so different than what is considered "rock" music these days, I can't understand how they both can be "rock".

 :beer:

this is funny, am i talking like a bitch???? did someone hack this site or have you all turned black? i lost my carcan you help me find it kind sir, you are a gentleman axl.

ha ha, axl izzy and slash are in guns n roses! what about duff and adler? what about matt sorum? scott weiland is gay...chinese democracy starts now.

this is the best!!!!!!!!!! thanks axl. i need to find my appetite for destruction cos izzy and slash fucked my shit late last nite and pumped my gas for weilland.

Sure enough!
That doesn't sound any better than now to me.
No offence dude but 1'd always take NIN, Radio Heads, white stripes n such over those hair metals.
But, h e y! Look, for all t h e difference !n our taste of music, we still love t h e same band. :beer:

GN'R was an exceptional Non-standardised article !n t h e scene a n d is.
From t his aspect, 1 guess t h e situation is rather similar.   

Magically, were there more fans of t h e (OLD) b a n d  !n  1985 than of t h e (NEW) b a n d  !n 2005? 
Then again, there are more naysayers and prejudices against t h e band now, f o r s u r e.

Chinese Democracy will be da bomb!

it's not dead dude. stop listening to the radio. there ARE some great bands out there, like Porcupine Tree for example. just because a band isnt insanely popular, dont mean it sucks. and so what if the big thing today is that shitty hip-hop? give it a few years... people will realise how sucky it is and turn back to rock.

and Chinese Democracy is gonna kick major ass!   : ok:

Chinese Democracy can't fail. It will sell millions of albums out of curiousity alone. And if Axl has a catchy pop tune similar to U2's 'Vertigo', LOOK OUT!! CD will be all over the place. CD will be big, but without a really catchy hit, GNR will not be all over TV and radio like in the olden days.

Chinese Democracy might not be an overwhelming success in the United States.  My guess is it will sell 2 or 3 million copies, good but not as strong as their other albums.  But internationally I think it will be succeed, I bet it sells around 10 million worldwide.  Guns N Roses have a huge international fanbase

Some people say that Axl's album sales are not an issue.


On the contrary, I think it's a big issue because if ChinDem does not sell well, it will be the last album released by Axl : record company moguls' revenge !!!

That's right man !

Chinese Democracy... is the most expensive ALBUM ever recorded...  dont forget that it hasnt been released yet... nor promoted and it has already reached more than 13 million of dollars

to the comment about rock being dead.actually i think hip hop is comming to a end  dont get me wrong i like hip hop but nothing great has come out of it in a whileit's become played out .rock is comming back even k-rock in new york has changed its format they are playing all good rock from back in the day and ton's of gun's and roses everytime i get in my car i hear a guns song .the world is just getting ready to appreciate rock again.

I agree, rock is back and 2005 is a big year for it. Some of the biggest releases of the year being rock releases - Oasis, White Stripes, Audioslave, NIN, SOAD and the real biggie I reckon,Coldplay.

Hip Hop has dominated since the millenium but it is waning as old ideas and concepts continue to be rehashed. What it really needs is another Eminem or Outkast much like rock in the past has needed its GNR's, Nirvanas and White Stripes.

When GN'R releases CD at the end of the year ( a huge leap of faith I know, but I think its going to happen), they could be re-entering a musical landscape fertile for rock artists and if it's as mindblowing as it's reported to be, it could well become a huge influenece as Appetite was 18 years ago.

However, I think the real measure of it's success will not be whether it's a commercial hit(although Interscope will have other ideas) but whether it can succeed on it's artistic merits.

dude, everyone is going to buy this album, not just everyone.....i mean EVERYONE!!!

so many people will be curious as fuck!!

 :-\
When even people who listen to Heavy Metal or Hard Rock don't know what Chinese Democracy is, well this makes me not that sure.

I`m almost agree with you. Rock is not dead basicly. Just change a lot. After The Beatles and Rolling Stones we have a few bands who really a creative musicaly - The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Metallica, U2, Guns n`Roses, Nirvana and NIN.

Thank God there still NIN.

That is for sure! i don`t know how many members have this forum but i bet my ass everyone here will buy it or download it. I`m from Bulgaria, and this week officialy was released Welcome to the Videos - i have this DVD for years but buy it becouse it was original and for support. Also buy and Greatset Hits for that reason. I`m waithing for CD almost 7 years and really can`t immagine to don`t buy it even it`s a really bad album. After Chinese Democracy, The Bluse, Madagascar and Rhiad a know for sure CH will become a huge hit.

That's what promotion is for. :P
i'm pretty sure that the promotion will be huge, after all we talk about GNR here.

concentrating the promotion on the (small) hard-rock/heavy metal "community" would be a mistake in term of marketing, promotion and SALES. Don't forget that even inside the GN'R fans, lots of people aren't into metal or heavy-metal (like me).? Most of them are basicly Rock fans. And that's what GN'R is, a Rock band. So "Chinese Democracy" has to appeal to everyone. The music should be the most democratic possible. It shouldn't be a record for a few people. It should be a record for everybody.

May i say Audioslave, Marilyn Manson?!!!! ???   

rock is alive to those who want it to be.. it's not alive like it was in the 80's or early 90's.. I wouldn't consider most mainstream music "rock" anyways.. You have retro elements today where wearing an ac/dc gnr t shirt is cool but by album sales you would never think rock is ruling anything.. Tide may change but right now rock is not big, brief nu metal surge a few years back, and rock rap but nothing so huge like say the grunge era or hairbands.. Gnr will have their devoted following at shows but album sales are unkown to me.. Greend day is having a great run but I don't even like them,.. For soem reason the guy billy joe sounds like he has some fake accent to me and all the songs remind me of eachother..

I don't know if it's the most expesive album ever, or a series of albums like axl mentioned.. What I do know is if anyone does care about seeing something by gnr do well you have to want to se good album sales or it wil be a failure for all the money spent..l Someone has to collect on that serious investment. I think it would be lame to wait so many years for an album to barely sell.. part of the excitement beside the music is seeing the album climb the charts or having big singles..

Rock isn't dead...everyone is mentioning all these mainstream bands...there are (IMO) a lot of bands rocking their heads off on indie labels (politics aren't as bad as on those corporate labels), playing bars and small clubs...if the only place you're looking is corporate america and big arenas, no wonder you're not finding rock as much as you like
...seek it out people : ok:

you'll always find good rock in the underground, it's always been like this.. The point of the topic was gnr in today's music.. There has been plenty of good rock in the mainstream in the past.. We're talking about rock music being accepted in the public and how gnr will do in the "mainstream".. Question is will CD do well in today's market? The popular rockstar is pretty much dead, album sales are way down among the bigger stars of the past but their shows still do well..

Yeah I imagine things are always like that.

From what I've heard, I don't see the mainstream (american) rock of the time before GN'R came out of the blue that excellent. the situation's pretty similar for GN'R, perhaps.

Axl doesnt give a shit if he tops the charts, as long as his music reaches hardcore and casual GnR fans he's content. We are all waiting on the album and when it comes out we are all going to buy it. Axl doesnt need to worry about that top 10 billboard chart bullshit, cause no matter what Chinese will be a massive success worldwide. And besides if ppl like Kelly Clarkson,Avril Lavigne, and fucking Ashley Simpson can top the charts

Than that doesnt say much for the charts now does it?  :peace:

We don't know that, (unless you're Axl :) of course)

Of course Axl cares about being #1, isn't that why GnR broke up? Axl wanted to be the biggest and best and play huge stadium acts and have huge orchestrated songs while everyone else in the band wanted to play clubs and just play "old fashioned rock and roll"

I think you are kidding yourself if you think Axl doesn't want to have the biggest band in the would once again.

in front of 200.000 + people at RIR 2001, Axl seemed to be the happiest guy in the world. :) He loves big crowds, it's a proof for him that his music touch a lot of people. I think he is proud when he plays in front of a big crowd. I also think he cares of record sales.
He really wants to be successfull again.

MTV doesn't want White kids listening to anything that isn't either A. "Being White is a crime" Hiphop, or B. "Being White sucks" emo-fag-"rock".
MTV is run by a cabal of jewish Zionists who hate White people, end of story. They want all Whites to lose their identity, because they don't want there to be any White people, period.
They pushed rap UNTIL it became popular (by default really), and submerged rock bands that weren't "with the program".

I know that isn't what anyone wants to understand and look at, but that's reality.

On the other hand, the Zionist music industry is going into the garbage bin-- White kids are kinda sick of crap, especially when they accidentally hear good music now considered "Oldies", and thus played on Oldie stations, when switching around for the so-called "Pop Rock" stations. So only the very young White kids are buying the crap that they see on MTV, and bands like Megadeth and reborn stars like Billy Idol are selling shows and making moves, even though the MTV cabal doesn't report it or wish to acknowledge this anti-Anti-Art sentiment that rejects the garbage the cabal has been forcing on youngsters. More and more people are tired of consuming cabal-approved junk.

All that matters is that Axl doesn't sell out like Metallica did, trying to get a cabal that hates him to embrace and respect him. His enemy isn't the mainstream audience. His enemy is the Zionist media gateway to that mainstream audience. He has to go around it, if the Zionist anti-human cerebrus guarding the gate won't let him pass.

Please keep your nazi propaganda to yourself.



/jarmo

To me there was plenty of good hard rock, and guitar rock around when gnr hit the scene, just not as good as gnr.. The point is rock bands were selling millions of albums say during the era of the strip based bands,,

Jarmo, please keep your Zionist self-hating self-righteous brainwashing to yourself. Thank you.

I think you'll be banned very soon. I'm jewish, and other people are on this board, do you have a problem with us?

Umm, sure. Everybody who's not a with you is a "zionist".? : ok:

Banned!




/jarmo

I know he won't see this now, but:

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. Business, like nature, follows the path of least resistance. MTV, or any similar station, has never ever ever influenced the popularity of a particular musical genre. Being on MTV may help a particular band, but not the sales figures of an entire musical movement. MTV, like any corporate entertainment outlet, functions in precisely the opposite way; they devote airtime to whatever is already popular.

MTV didn't push rap to make it became popular, the opposite is true. Besides a handful of commercially successful rap artists, there was almost no rap on MTV until ten years ago, when it had already become a major financial crutch for the music industry. There was, I think, one single rap-based show on MTV throughout the 80's - at a time when Ice T, Public Enemy, NWA, and presumably others, were selling millions of records. MTV ignored rap when the form was at its most potent, and has only given itself over to the genre now that it has become a safe predictable caricature of itself.

Uh, were you asleep in the mid 90's? Because MTV shoved rap/hip hop down everyone's throats continuously. By the time they got through doing it, 90% of the population was wearing baggy jeans down to their knees. It was pathetic. And most girls would only sleep with you if you were black, or wanted to be black. Although I wouldnt blame it on zionists or any crazy shit like that. Hell, I wouldn't even blame it on MTV. I blame it on the public for falling for it. The music scene, and society itself, have yet to fully recover from this. I'm only speaking from the U.S. point of view. I dont know how it played out in the rest of the world.

Were you asleep while reading my post? Yes, over the last decade MTV has been full to the brim with rap. Funnily, I consider the last decade to be "the last ten years", which would put us right in the mid-90's. Weird, huh? If you're going to disagree with me, it's better to make sure that your views don't correspond exactly to mine. Dipshit.

You said the guys arguments were flawed. The only flaws in it was all that zionist crap. I love how you insult people all the time. It really brings out the intelligence in you.

excellent post - right on the money  : ok:

I protect my intelligence by only insulting stupid people.
I said his argument was flawed, and I explained why. I'll say the jist of it again: MTV began to promote rap when rap had become popular and safe enough to promote. Prior to that, even when rap artists were selling millions of records, MTV wanted nothing to do with them. Only once watered-down rap had become the primary profitable product of the music industry did MTV become RapTV. MTV followed the trend, it did not create it. The fact that they promoted it so aggressively for so long is a sign that it was working, and it was working because the genre was already popular. If MTV tomorrow decided to promote only polka music it would not create a huge polka music market, MTV would simply die off.

Here's the simplest way I can put it: MTV did not make rap popular, rap is popular and therefore it is on MTV.

I get what you're saying, and you're almost on the right track. A better example is how MTV handled grunge. Nirvana was completely unknown. Then MTV started to play them non stop on headbangers Ball. No one cared about it. Then they started playing it constantly throughout the day. Again, no one cared. So they kept playing it until people started caring. Without MTV, the grunge movement never would have occured. You're right about a rap movement before MTV started the brainwashing. But in my opinion, neither grunge or rap would have ever went mainstream without major help from MTV. And until you stop insulting me, I'm not responding to your posts. You take things WAY too seriously!!

uh...it has to be released before it can fail...let's wait for an announcement before we start talking about if it will fail or not...

Hey people it's all about money,in my opinion MTV doesn't give a crap if is rock or rap,all they want is to make money.


 Back to topic,

 The #1 reason CD will fail. ? ? it'll never come out in the first place. :rofl:

 Keep wearin' those patience T-shirts,I'll be laughin' my head off :rofl:

Rock most certainly is not dead. Classic artists like Neil Young, Tom Petty, and Bruce Springsteen continue to put out new albums and their concerts draw very well. The Rolling Stones no longer put out good albums, but their shows make them tens of millions of $$ every time they tour; and even the Who is supposed to be working on new material. Just because MTV devotes little if any time to these (and other) artists from the 1970s and 1980s does not mean rock is dead. Rock is in the soul of the people and is not decided by a production manager at a TV station. Besides, we additionally blessed with the appearance of VR, which if that is not a rock band then I don't know what is. They sell well and their shows are popular, so rock is far far from dead.

And furthermore, before we start writing the post mortem on CD, let's wait for it to come out.

Same difference. There's always crap of the moment comes and goes and sells millions to the million passives alongside good~OK bands like NIN, radioheads coldplay oasis whitestripes U2 and so on.

If he cared so much wouldnt CD have been released by now, wouldnt he still be with the guys with whom he got to the top with? and besides that was yrs ago, Axl Rose is 43 dont u think maybe hes changed a bit since then?