Here Today... Gone To Hell!

you can cry all you want but no one can rush perfection! Axl is a perfectionist and that is why his music is so intense and pollished. Give him some space and less abuse in the press and you will have your alblum sooner than you think!
axl, take your time-

no offense buddy, I dont know how new of a fan you are of GNR, but I dont think you can tell that to people who have been waiting around for over a decade for a new album.  Now if a long time GNR fan said that, I would strongly disagree but I would at least have to admire the fact that even after this long they can still say that.

But what is perfection? Is it the perfect album that has no market to sell it to?

If you look through Axl's eyes a perfect album is an album where every song is done the right way to every single note

If you look through Management/Record Company eyes, an album that sells alot with a good single or two will be the perfect album.

If you look through a fan's eyes some will say alot of melodic slow songs would be perfect

Other fans would say a harder album like GnR Appetite would be perfect.

You got to look at all sides of the equation to find a happy middle. ?Personally I can see Axl just wants to be left alone and that is ok, but then again there are tons of fans who still buy his music and merchandise and allow him all this money to spend freely so it is really a catch 22 problem.

Perfection is just an Illusion.

Who exactly are you talking to? Last time I checked, nobody here was cramping his space or abusing him in the press, so who do you mean? If you want to bring up something that has been discussed to death already you have to come with something better than that.

I dont really think that its the for album release people are getting tierd to wait for, it bad information on what is going on.. If GNR managment and GNR themselfs updated the fans, im sure we would understand things alot better...

One can't rush perfection, i agree, but i'd say one cannot make history go faster than it is written.

But look at the albums that people consider perfection.  They were all made in very short amounts of time. i.e. Led Zepplin 1, Black Sabbaths first album, Rolling Stones Sticky Fingers, And of course Appetite.  There is a such thing in my opinion as "overdoing" an album.  I just pray CD isn't like that.

You can spend as much time as you want on an album, but if the 'spirit' isn't there, then it won't be there by some studio magics and adding other three flute themes. But if the spirit is there, then half a year is more than enough to record and release it.

Agreed.  But can the "spirit" be there after 7 years.  Duff said it best in a recent interview that if you don't get the song down in the studio after a couple of takes then it's better left alone.  As a musician myself, I am inclined to believe that.  After tinkering in my bands studio for too long, the magic seems to be lost.  I want CD as much as anyone on this board, but perfection isn't acheived for 13 million.

Time and money spent are irrelevant. Axl is a fucked up cat....simple as that. He will release it when HE wants to release it. The album could literally be the best album ever but if he isn't happy with it or simply doesn't want to deal with the actual shit storm of attention that will accompany the release, it won't be coming out. Don't blame this on the new band either-the instrumentals have been done for years. I lay everything-at least the time issue-at the feet of Axl. It doesn't matter who is in the band-Duff, Bucket, Slash, Tommy-until Axl puts vocals over it and likes it, it won't be out. Comparing this situation to Sticky Fingers or AFD or Led Zep IV or even Smile is not fair. Simply put, no one has ever put this much consistent studio time in to an album. Don't say Smile took 37 years because Wilson only worked on it for essentially a year, maybe two. What Axl has done is completely unprecedented in rock music history. I don't give a fuck what Merck says or anyone on this board says. The facts are that Axl Rose, with various musicians, has been trying to make a record, off and on, for 11 years. Unbelievable.  :rofl:

I tend to agree with the above and will take it a step further.

Keeping in mind he's owes us nothing, 1 new studio release from Axl Rose in 14 years is one the most disappointing things in rock history.

Clarify, "studio release" assumes album....ONE SONG! :rofl: Any way you shake it, it is disappointing. :-[

Yep, meant one new studio tune put out for public consumption. : ok:

Well To be technical, while I am beating the crap out of this dead horse over here, in the last 14 years we have had UYI 1 & 2, TSI, Sympathy For The Devil, Oh My God, and the various bootlegs from the live shows.

OK let the hyperbole and exaggerations continue now : ok:

2005-14=1991! Aye, Keen eyed, kujo! You're the Math master. (BTW, where were you?)

That is the sort of hyperbole mums love to employ (for their preaching)

OK, how 'bout 1 original song properly released since the UYI's, better? :yes:

Rushing is certainly not 13+ years for a full album of even mostly original material. I do not know how anyone can even say expecting an album since 98 (7 years) is rushing...  :no: I wish I would not have spent the time thinking how long it has actually been. Sure, I know as you all do, but quantifying it just reiterates the absurdity and depressing nature of that.

The word Rush and Chinese Democracy don`t belong in the same sentence.

"Give him some space." Ok, fine. Is  7-8 years enough space?
As for his music  being polished, a good amount of what we have heard is unfinished/demos (OMG, IRS, Rhiad). That is not to say they aren't  finished now, but one  would think after  all this time  there are "polished" songs ready to go.

 :rofl:
perfection... he he he..
To me, AFD And UYI I and II are perfect... not 12 years needed to make it.

Take your time Axl, there's no need to run... 2010 is fine for Chinese Democracy, you'll be 48 by then, but it's ok, the following album can be release in 2020 and you'll be in great shape for touring, look at the stones, you still can be a rock star in your 90's when your dicography reaches 6 albums... no difference with them. go on... we'll wait.

Umm yea...I assume you are being sarcastic. But maybe cause Im stoned, and the odd chance that you are being sincere...

...I love the Stones but, they FUCKING SUCK now live. Its embarrassing. Mick wearing belly shirts and rapping worse then fitty cents through all the classics sucks ass. Give it a rest Mick. You might as well be seeing Sting. I almost feel my inner child fucking dying when I see these dudes trying to act young and cool today. Stones would have been a lot cooler if they broke up in the late 70's.

"Can't Rush Perfection"

hehe...how queer.

after this long, it better be perfect - however im all for some sponteinanity in music as well
thats one of the reasons why the likes of Appetite, Lies and Illusions are so great - there is a real band chemistry there, sometimes they sound like theyre teetering on being sloppy, but that was part of the Guns feel

I hope the albums not overproduced and if theyre going to call themselves GN'R, I hope they at least retain a bit of that raw feel

Case in point, I have a soundbaord from 2002 of Rocket Queen which is great quality. The band sounds amazing, not a mistake at all, but it still doesnt sound like Guns - I know, I know - how can it when theyre not the same lineup, but the point is, part of what made Guns so great is the "anything could happen" feel - so too polished aint gonna work I think

The only way is for them to release CD and be judged on their material

i don't know if you can put a time to perfection.but as a fan waiting it makes it hard to think it's all perfection.making us wait.
 :beer: :smoking:
show em my moto'
peace and chicken grease !

A perfect album is one where the artist is completely happy with everything about it. The music, the flow of the songs on the album, the band behind it, the touring behind it.

When you want to do it like Guns N' Roses after most of the people that were Guns N' Roses quit, it takes time. It's not that hard to understand actually.

It will be perfect but like in the way that everybody will like it, no. But in the way that its perfect for Axl and for the reast of the band. and ofcourse it will be perfect for the fans too

The last people, who were Guns N' Roses and quit, left the band in 1997.

Actually, you can rush perfection. The perfect example is AFD. What you can't rush is procrastination.

Good post but as for the "of course" bit I kinda doubt it. Cor, there are too many petty minds, deaf since 1997. Chinese Democracy will win massive new fans instead.

In the same time frame as the release of the Illusion album until now, The Beatles released 13 studio albums, and two albums worth of singles.

Ever stop to think that Uncle Axl is not working hard on the album everyday? But rather is sitting on his fat ass, watching "All My Children" and getting fed bon bons by 30 french maids?

Or perhaps Axl is depressed?

Definitely something is wrong. CD shoulda been done by now. Or at least give us an update.

Another super contributive post of yours.

I don't think AFD was a case of being rushed.  I think that they just had a lot of great songs, and they didn't need or want to tinker with them forever.  They just went in, played the shit out of them, then went back out to drink and fuck.  That was part of the original Guns N' Roses charm.  Now Axl has become a reclusive millionaire with pretensions of being a Great Artist.

Axl has always been Axl, always will be.

I really don't understand which members you meant in your previous post if not Steven, Slash and Duff (and maybe Gilby and Matt). I thought you referred to Axl's VMA interview. But if you are only here to bitch about something, then good for you.  : ok:

That's correct.


That's quite funny coming from you.

Right, but the problem is that members of the new band are starting to leave as well.  That invalidates Axl's accusations that old band was to blame for the new album not coming out in a timely manner.  He replaced them with all new musicians and now they are beginning to high-tail it (Bucket is gone, Robin has been in and out and rumors have circulated about Brain and Stinson).  No matter what happens from this point on - whether "Chinese Democracy" comes out tomorrow or ten years from now or never - Axl's perfectionism has gotten the better of him.  No getting around it.

Robin, Brain and Tommy are still in the band and have shown no desire to leave at all. Buckethead left for his own reasons, and without being there it's impossible to know who's right, or if anyone is right at all.

"and now they are beginning to high-tail" is a very inaccurate statement.

Why would the others leave GNR?

THey are free to pursue whatever projects they want with the GNR name behind them. And they are on Axl`s payroll. Seems like a great situation for a musician to be in. Sucks for us because we have been waiting all this time for a new album.

They are still there as of right now but Robin left GN'R for Nine Inch Nails a few years ago, then returned.? Brain and Tommy are still there but as I said I have read rumors that both have considered leaving GN'R which tells me that if such rumors were ever true the morale in the "GN'R locker room" isn't very high and rightfully so.? One performance on MTV that most people laugh(ed) at, a failed tour, and seemingly endless work on a project that may never see the light of day and will most certainly never live up to it's astronomical expectations no matter how great or shitty the actual music is.? These are things the entire line-up have undoubtedly considered - as Buckethead's departure has proven.

"Beginning to high-tail it" may have been a bit hasty, but time will tell the story there.

Of course he is depressed look at his lyrics and the fact he hides at home, He's a manic depressed genius

Okay, so maybe the argument that all great rock albums have to be recorded really fast isn't totally true.  I mean, look at artists like Bruce Springsteen, Def Leppard, and Boston.  They are all perfectionists in the studio and usually take a really long time to make their records because they're obsessed with getting the best take.  However, at least Bruce and Def Leppard release records every few years.  If you ask me, Tom Scholz of Boston is the closest equivalent to Axl in the rock world, because Boston only releases one album per decade.  Still, even they get their albums out eventually.

The big problem is that Axl is now caught in a vicious cycle.  The longer he takes to make the album, the better he feels it has to be to justify the length of time he's taken to make it.  He's setting himself an impossible task.

I think everyone here can agree the biggest reason we havn't seen CD or a new GnR record is because GnR back in the 80's and early 90's was a group of artists putting pressure on Axl to get a final product done.  Axl had input and bandmates making sure he staid on task. Axl is now surrounded by "YES MEN" they are not pressuring Axl but just saying "yes you are the man axl" or "that is great axl" they are just happy to be in GnR and don't want to Upset Axl. Maybe the only non YES MAN in GnR was Buckethead and he is gone.

This is completely true and I've made the same comparisons within my mind, several times.