Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I wonder why GNR doesn't play Estranged anymore?  Any thoughts?

Maybe because they haven't even played at all for 3 years, perhaps...

Since Axl unveiled the new line-up, Estanged has never been played live.  I think its a shame that the new GNR doesn't make it a part of the setlist as it's one of the best songs in the entire GNR catalogue.

Yeah I agree with you mate, don't worry, I'm just being silly. ;D

But you have to think too, Estranged was very much Slash's song (with those killer solos) as well as Axl's and there would've been allot of scrutiny on it if the new band attempted to play it live. But then I guess it's no different to the new band playing any of the other Slash signature tunes.

Anyway, I too hope the new band plays it because it deserves to be heard live again. : ok:

No worries  : ok:

I know what you mean... that song is all Slash and maybe the band couldn't pull it off.  I can't imagine it being easy to play.

On the other hand, I heard the song is about Slash, specifically with lines like "I'll never find anyone to replace you".  One could argue that Axl doesn't feel the need to play the song anymore?

I highly doubt the song is about Slash, it's about a lost love (Erin Everly perhaps?)
They didn't even play don't cry on tour (is that b/c of S. Hoon's death and how he was originally back-up vocals on the album?)
I agree that they should have incl' this song on thier setlist on thier last tour, as well as more illusion songs.  They basically played AFD songs...(which doesn't represent the complete GNR...)

If i recall correctly the reason they dont play Dont Cry is because its "an izzy song". I think Axl said that during one of the 2002 shows. As for estranged its probably to do with Slash like people have said. Axl wrote a personal thank you to Slash for coming up with guitar riff, or somthing like that. It probably hits a little close to home for Axl.

Jonx

ANY new guitarist (Bucket, Finck - doesn't matter) would get shit from the "fans" for playing the holy grail of GN'R guitar solos. But it never sounded good live anyway, even Slash fucked up that solo in concerts.

What do you need "Estranged" for, when you can have "The Blues"?

Buckethead could play ANYTHING by Slash-note for note. His crystal clear tone is tailor made for a song like Estranged. I think Fortus could do it as well. The three guitar lineup is perfect for Estranged. It would sound killer. Just my two cents. ;D

Not to sound like an asshole, but Estranged is easy to play

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

Buckethead is not in GN'R these days.

Really..shocking news ::)

If people payed attention to Axl interviews you would know why they didnt play Estranged or Dont Cry. Axl said once that he re-recorded AFD + Patience + You Could Be Mine so the band already knew all those songs, they just added November Rain and 2 covers (LALD + KOHD) to complete the old catalog in the setlist.
I believe Axl will play more old stuff if he ever returns and rotate it more, that would be cool.

I sure hope he adds more songs.  I believe that if GNR wrote all the songs, then GNR should be able to play everything regardless of the line-up.  Axl is limiting the band during live shows if they cannot play most of the songs... thhe can't be spontaneous and play additional songs just because they feel like making the show longer than expected.  I understand that some songs are not being played for personal reasons, but on the other day, they play Think About You, song that was never played live, because they needed material.  I'm sure people would love to hear Dust N' Bones, Coma and Estranged but they won't play them cause the new GNR doesn't know how.  I really hope they learnt every from AFD to UYI and that I'm proven wrong.  You could argue that he's ripping off the fans.

I remember hearing that Axl said he wouldn't play Estranged without Slash. I'm not saying that's right, but it's what i heard and it makes sense to me.


 :rofl: I don't think that's even close, but that's just me...Blues is awesome but not better than Estranged. But that's not what this thread is about, so...who cares

 :rofl: I don't think that's even close, but that's just me...Blues is awesome but not better than Estranged. But that's not what this thread is about, so...who cares

The Blues paaaaaales in comparison to Estranged..I was listening to estranged in science today and it totaly made me think of Fortus and Finck murdering the solos on top of the speakers @ a sold out show @ MSG ;D The song is next to sweet child o' mine and patience on my all time gnr list, and i totally agree that more illusion material is needed live, my preference would be II. : ok:

i thought the Live Era version of Estranged was fine

The live version is awesome : ok:

I think Estranged was about a period in Axls life (his wife) that he wants to move on from.

I doubt it. I presume the next time they go on tour, it will be to promote CD. This means the setlist will largely consist of NuGNR songs, with some fan favorites thrown to the mix (WTTJ, SCOM, etc.). If the album's strong enough, Axl doesn't need to squeeze that much AFD songs, let alone UYI.

I'd love to hear Estranged by the new lineup, though I fear it might never happen.

Estranged is my favorite Gn'R song, hands down. Yea, sure, WTTJ, SCOM, Patience, NR, KOHD.... the classics, they're all amazing and wonderful and I love them all, but Estranged is just... I don't know, but its the most personal, most let-your-guard-down song I've ever heard, and I adore it... but I can see why Axl might not wanna play it live... even in the UYI era, the concert people tried to stop Gn'R playing both NR, Coma and Estranged because they were insanely long songs, but back then, those songs were a big part of Axl's life (don't ask me "How do you know, were you there!?" because its all in the lyrics), and like someone said, he probably doesn't want to play them (except for NR) because he wants to forget that time in his life. Sure, the song is amazing, and everyone who thinks that wants Axl to play it... who knows, maybe he will, but don't hold your breath, OK.

i know what you mean by that "most let-your-guard-down part". A lot of parts in Estranged really hit me hard.

And now that you've been broken down
Got your head out of the clouds
Your feet back on the ground
You don't talk so loud
And you don't walk so proud

not sure if those are the exact lyrics, but that's definitely my fave part of the song lyrically.

Yeah, that's most likely it. In the music video for Estranged, a definition for "Estranged" is shown about halfway through the song. It's defined as "separation or divorce", which would obviously be related to Erin Everly.

Not to try and bash the new band or anything, but there's no way that the new band could make Estranged half as good as it sounded with the old lineup.  That's one of those songs that has an extremely unique sound with Slash and Izzy's guitars.  Other songs, like Jungle, It's So Easy, and You Could Be Mine, can be made to sound very similar to the old band's performance, but that's one of those songs that is too unique imo.

There are some songs that are more "transferable" between the old band and the new one.

"Estranged" isn't one of them.

actually part of estranged was played at the new line up show in china...the end part of the song.

This is probably my fav gnr track. I listen to it all the time and I get the same feelings with every listen. Its a powerful song, especially when your feelin kinda shitty.

If Axl has written a better song lyrically than Estranged then I iwll truly be blown away. If Gnr come up with a great piece of music like estranged, I will be again...blown away.

Estranged is just 1 of those songs. Its ashame it doesnt get credit like NR does but I guess its for the hardcore fan....Simply a beautiful song

I would love to hear it live by the new band, also-Axl seems to be trying to distance things from the Illusion albums for whatever reason-I know in the interview with Kurt Loder he felt pressured to release them before he felt they were ready, if I remember correctly-when the new lineup played in 2002, November Rain and You Could be mine were the only 2 illusion songs written by the band to make it to the setlist, with KOHD and Live and Let Die covers, of course.

Axl could have worked on UYI for 20 years.  CD has shown that the guy just can't finish.  As much as i admire him he obviously never heard the idea that a great album isn't finished, it's abandoned.

There are a few things on Illusions II that the new band could do a cool job with. I don't go along with the idea that something is that sacred that they can't play it. They already do most of AFD, which to most GnR fans is the definitive GnR statement. I'd love to hear a GnR three guitar attack (if they ever get a replacement for Buckethead) take on Locomotive, Breakdown, Estranged, Civil War, and a few others. It would probably take your head off.

That songis too representative of the old band. I wouldn't like to see the new line-up play it. It's not their song. They are not the right men to play it. They have to play their new material now, don't touch the classics of the old band.

I love that part!! I kinda relate to it too..... a lotta stuff in my life seems to go wrong. I get high hopes, which are then thrown into the darkest pits of hell, and I'm not the same afterwards. I've been with my boyfriend for almost 11 months now, and at the beginning, we were all over each other all the time, and now... he says that he needs to sort himself out and that he doesn't want to be with anyone at the moment. He's staying with me, but its not the same as it used to be. He's now easily pissed-off, doesn't really wanna fuck a lot, and gets pissed-off when I try to be romantic, and it kills me. I wish everything could be how it used to, and I know me and him are gunna split soon. He says when we do, he wants to stay friends, and we'll probably get back together in a few years, but it still kills me because I still feel the same way I did at the beginning of the relationship, and he doesn't, he says he still loves me, but not in the same way as he used to. I cry a lot of the time now, and let me tell you, its not just 5 minute silent crying, its full on weeping for an hour. Somehow... listening to Estranged makes me feel better for some odd reason... I'm so fucking confused because its a sad song, and I'm a sucker for ballads... they make me cry, so I don't know why that one makes me STOP crying... any ideas?
Sorry for spilling my guts all over the board, but it had to happen, seeing as I've been keeping that to myself for fucking ever!
Fuck, I sound like a stupid little whiney emo kid!! *rolls eyes* I'm NOT an emo kid!! Lemme just tell y'all that right now.
Long live Guns N' Fuckin' Roses, and may they continue to play Estranged!

Note to Axl if he ever comes on this message board.

Dear Axl:
PLAY ESTRANGED LIVE WHEN YOU COME TO ENGLAND!!!
Oh... but do actually come to England!
I'll give you a hug if you do! And another bandana!
Thanks in advance!
Love Elly.
PS: You ROCK!!!
xoxox

Yeah kick-ass : ok: :yes:

They should play estranged and locomotive too what hasnt been played a lot either. Maybe on the next tour eh

There's only Slash's guitar on Live Era.

All in favor of Estranged being an absolute MUST in this year's set-list - Post Here

YES! YES YES YESYESYESYESYESYESYEEEEEES!!!!!

*is bouncing around crazily*

didnt slash not even want to do estranged??? And the only reason scom has that riff is bc axl wanted it and built on it slash didnt want to do that either.

I have a few thoughts here. . .

1. ?Estranged was said to be one of the hardest songs to play live, by Slash, Duff and Gilby (see - Making of Estranged)

2. ?I think Axl stays away from songs that he knows he will have a hard time pulling off live - As much as I love the guy, he struggled a bit in '02 on some somgs - He doesn't have that powerful range we all heard from him when he was younger. ?Thats not a knock on him, I feel like he changed the way he sings and approaches things differently. ?If you disagree with this statement ask yourself this. . ?.Could he pull of the "sail away sweet sister song, Shadow of your love, Perfect Crime, locamotive etc. . . .Don't get me wrong, I still got the chills when he sang Live and Let Die, but I don't get the power from Paridice City anymore. ?I think his strengths are with the new songs now, as they are tailered to his new style. ?

Anyway my two cents

the solos arnt very easy but i think fink could do it no problem ...if he practiced it every day these last 4 years

Dude, you're really far off on this, so there's no point insulting people. ?Axl said this in 1999, before Fortus, Bucket or Brain were in the band, and we don't know if Pittman was even in the band. ?Considering also that this was done pre 99 and after 7 years (or even 3 since 2002), the band members are probably going to forget their parts. ?Axl has never mentioned this as a reason for them not playing it.

I suspect that Axl feels that the UYI's were not done properly and he doesn't want to change them too much.

It's my favorite GNR song. But isn't it about Stephanie and how to survive, move on. And Axl has moved on, so thematically, the song is probably dated in Axl's mind.

i agree and you would think that he would like to continue playing " his songs " like estranged, coma, breakdown.........

estranged is based upon the "without you" series by a novel del james wrote.

yeah that is a great part of the song. it reminds me of bob dylan: like a rolling stone-
"you used to laugh about everybody that was hanging out, now you dont talk so loud, now you dont seem so proud, about having to be scrounging for your next meal..."
i always thought that was pretty cool since im a fan of both of them.
the whole song is amazing musically and lyrically.
i also remember hearing slash and other members of the band saying it was a pain in the ass to play songs like estranged and coma live. although if they play it in new york ill go crazy.

estranged is also my favorite gnr song, and I would love to hear it this may.  i bet the new band could nail it, remember guys they are exceptionally-good professional musicians, there's no way they wouldnt be able to pull off any gnr song with some rehearsals

Anybody that says Buckethead could play Estranged as good as Slash is an idiot.  Buckethead couldn't write a song like estranged if he had 100 yrs to do it.  I don't understand why some of you dislike slash so much that you would insult him by saying shit like this.  Slash is a legend  Buckethead is a freak that plays fast . ( please don't make reference to his solo albums )  A guitarist is nothing unless he writes amazing riffs in a band .   We have heard like 8 new GNR songs and the guitar parts aren't worthy of even being mentioned in the same sentence with slash.  You might say that Slash was good because he had Axl   but so did Buckethead  and he still sucked.    Just watch, this tour is going to be much better than 2002 now that Buckethead is out of the band.

Why can't we reference his solo albums? Because they blow Slash's out of the water?

Writing and playing are two different things, im sure he could play any riff slash wrote. Could he write a comparable riff??? i doubt it, i haven't heard one from him yet.

On a side note, yet another innocent thread has gone to the dark side and become another slash v buckethead monster.

maybe VR should start playing it, they have as much right to play gnr songs as gnr do.

Wow, those are some strong words dude! ?I love Slash , always will. But from what I heard from Buckethead, I was pretty impressed. I was looking forward to hearing what came out of him on the record. I also don't think he would've lasted this long with Axl unless he was able to bring the goods - Why are you so down on him?
Do you play guitar? Just a Slash lover? ?Just curious friend - Elaborate if you could

I would rather kill myself than hear scott try to sing estranged. Dont' get me wrong, i don't call him a fag or gay or anything like that, and i feel he has done some songs well, but there are some things you just don't attempt.

I know what you mean, im just getting my point across, When i saw VR live they did a kickass version of Used to love her. Im sure they couldnt pull off estranged. But it would be interesting to see if axl would get pissed off about it.

I don't know, they have done a few guns songs, they played it's so easy when i saw them. And snakepit did brownstone as well. If axl was that pissed about it i think we would have heard by now.

and this is a big example of ignorant and stupid people...

Yeah, they have the right to play the GNR songs, sure. But Estranged, I agree, they should not touch. I even remember Slash saying they would'nt be doing Jungle because it was a little too " Axl " - That being said, I think they know what lines to cross and which not to-

Totally. Estranged should be on the "do not touch" list, for the new GNR just as much as songs like SCOM should be on VR's "do not touch" list.

I would love to hear Estranged live. That's one of the best GNR songs ever; on my top 5 for sure.

I absolutely agree. This is the best thing it could have happened to the band.

WTF?!??!!  Estranged sounded INCREDIBLE live!  You're mental!  And I'm sorry... as great as the Blues is ... it ain't no Estranged dude!

I don't understand why anyone thinks Slash and his crew would be interested in playing ANY of the big ballads from GN'R??? For instance, VR will *never* play Patience. You know why? Because Slash and Duff HATE that song. Neither of them (and Matt according to Behind The Music) wanted to play any of the big huge ballads that Axl wanted to do.

I cannot understand why any song in the GN'R catalog should be off limits to anyone who played in the band. Like I said above I can guarantee you'll never hear certain songs out of VR because they just don't like them, Axl on the other hand is in to pretty much every tune in the catalog. The only songs you might say he would never play again would be 14 Years, Dust N' Bones & Coma. The first two wouldn't even be on a GN'R album if it wasn't for Axl pushing so hard, but they're essentially Izzys solo songs. As for Coma, that's kinda the opposite of November Rain in a way. Slash pushed real hard for it and Axl didn't even want to write lyrics for it.

Axl talked all the time about how Estranged was constantly reinventing itself to him through  the UYI tour. It obviously wasn't written about Steph, but by the time they got to making a video for it, it was reminding him of that all situation the time. I would imagine that it would have to make him think of the VR situation by this point. Either way, as long as we don't have to hear almost all of Appetite again I'm happy. I think not only is Estranged a possibility, it's a probability.

I never remember Axl saying he didn't want to write lyrics to Coma.  I do remember him saying that the song was really personal and that he had trouble writing lyrics/passed out while writing lyrics for it.  He's said that writing the words for that song took a weight off his shoulders or something similar.  I think that song is one of Axl's most personal songs (from what i've read).  I wouldn't be surprised if gnr played it....

Axl did an interview with Kurt Loder sometime around 1990 on a show called "Famous Last Words" you can find it on the Get In The Ring (Purple) DVD. It's during that interview that Axl talks about how he didn't want to write lyrics to Coma because of the fact that it's a 10 minute rock song with no chorus. But then he goes on about what you were saying (how he passed out and on) and how the song was very theaputic for him.

Don't get me wrong either as I said before I think pretty much nothing is off limits for GN'R to play, I was just sighting the only reason I can think of why Axl might not do those ones I listed. Personally I'd be happy if they opened and closed with Coma!  :P

I have that Famous Last Words and he doesnt say that he didnt want to write it. He said it was a hard song to write and that its hard to remember because nothing repeats, theres no chorus. He never said he didnt want to write it. Actually, that was one of his favorite songs he wrote. That and Estranged were his two favorites other than November Rain.

If he wasn't into it, you could've fooled me - The goes goes fucking off towards the end, and I think makes the song one of hardest hitting, if not the hardest hitting songs they've ever recorded

rock music doesnt get any greater than this song - i havent listen to that song in a while and just played it...boy its just perfect AXL n SLASH at their best.
the two most important ingredients of a rock band LEAD VOCAL n LEAD GUITAR. new GNR dont have lead guitar player.
i was also listening to 2002 tour solos-sorry folks but none of the guitar players involved in that tour can top SLASH. there is not the same feel only only a handfull of people in the world can play with the same feel and they are either dead or long time retired from music scene . it will never be the same GNR( unless at least Slash is back) we all knew and liked. i would love to be proved wrong but i seriously doubt it.

Axl did an interview with Kurt Loder sometime around 1990 on a show called "Famous Last Words" you can find it on the Get In The Ring (Purple) DVD. It's during that interview that Axl talks about how he didn't want to write lyrics to Coma because of the fact that it's a 10 minute rock song with no chorus. But then he goes on about what you were saying (how he passed out and on) and how the song was very theaputic for him.

Don't get me wrong either as I said before I think pretty much nothing is off limits for GN'R to play, I was just sighting the only reason I can think of why Axl might not do those ones I listed. Personally I'd be happy if they opened and closed with Coma!? :P

I have that Famous Last Words and he doesnt say that he didnt want to write it. He said it was a hard song to write and that its hard to remember because nothing repeats, theres no chorus. He never said he didnt want to write it. Actually, that was one of his favorite songs he wrote. That and Estranged were his two favorites other than November Rain.

I aplogize if I miss quoted. I'll have to watch that again and correct myself apparently.

IMO axl knows that this isnt GnR anymore, its just the name that stands, but the band isnt GnR, a band isnt something just because a name say's it is, maybe he wants 2 leave the past where it belongs, IMO i wouldnt like to hear alot of old stuff by the new band because it would wreck the songs for me, they play the old songs like its so easy and mr brownstone faster than the old band, im not a fan of the new band playing the old stuff, but i like the new material there playing but axl please....


im guna get alot of stick hear  :-\

"Estranged" ?was inspired by a short story written by a good friend of the bands named Del James called "Without You" ?It mostly pertains to Axl and Steph but he says it also pertains to other relationships with others such as family members and other close relationships where he knew they had to end. ?He refers to it as unrequieted love!!! ?I believe that part 3 of the Trilogy which should have been the follow up to November Rain and should have also given the answer as to why Steph died in the end of the video, (which you can find out how by reading Del's short story) didn't take place as Axl and Steph parted ways, so they skip part 3 and go to part 4 "The making of "Estranged", this is how he vented it all, through "Estranged".

Axl said himself that he was very appreachitive about what Slash done to the song and how he played guitar on it, maybe it's too much of an emotional trip for him to play it without Slash.

Or maybe hes just worried that Finck will butcher it like he did to SCOM and NR.

If Axl thought Robin butchered any song, Robin would not be in Axls band.

exactely.....   he didn`t butcher scom by the way.... ha made it his own : ok:  same goes for NR to a little smaller extent

I like the way he and Richard played NR better overall. SCOM I'm ok either way. But overall if Axl Rose thought "Hmmmm, we can't play (that) song because one of my guitarists isn't good enough" the next thought would be "Hmmm, I guess I have to fire that guitarist"

I say fortus should play all the slash parts.  Robin, your creative when writing but your "interpretation" of the slash solo's don't work

Richard on the other hand plays them similar, though you know its not slash when he's doing it.

Since we're talking about the past, there's no reason GnR couldn't have played it from a technical standpoint.  Buckethead is one of the most precise and skilled players on the planet, he could've played every note of Estranged just fine.  There are probably a few reasons.  One, you need a few slower songs sprinkled in with rockers, and they were already playing NR, The Blues, Patience, Madagascar, which are slower songs.  Playing another epic like Estranged takes a lot of time.  And to me, Estranged was always a song that sounded much better with the studio version.  It wasn't as good live as it was on the album

They're GNR, right? So nothing by the band GNR should be off-limits.

Awesome song, would prefer to hear estranged and twat live over November Rain

I think I would agree with you. November Rain sometimes sounds un-believable live, but other times it does kind of drag a little - depends on the mood, I guess

It just a little overplayed. I'd like to hear an acoustic version like from the early demos.

I feel the same way. Usually when I'm actually at a Guns show I'm cool with it, but afterwards on bootlegs I usually skip it or breeze through it until the end reprise.

i need to se November Rain live.. i really hope they still play it..  : ok:

There seems to be quite a wide range of opinions on this topic.  However, I think that the musicians Axl has selected are very very good in the new line-up. Thus, I think they can play any GNR back catalog song very well.  By the way, many other bands could probably do the same.  If BH was still in the band, I'm sure he could practice estrange and play every solo without a doubt.  Not sure why people seem to think that only slash and the old band can play this song.  I think people prefer seeing/hearing slash do it, but that doesn't mean others can't play it.  This newer line-up can probably plan any song they want to play well.
I think the reason people say that the new band can't play a certain song, is for 2 reasons:
1) Fink, Fortus, etc. trying to make a solo their own
2) Axl- has changed a few things, sound wise, to make the band have a more modern sound (he's even said this)

My guess to why they didn't play estranged last tour, was that they basically played the same set list.  Also, they tried to keep the show around 2 hours.  In 2 hours, u can play enough songs to please everyone.  I think Axl didn't have room in his mind to add another slow song to the mix, after the others he planned on playing (ie: patience, blues, nov. rain, KOHD, etc.

No its not actually, axl just thought it was funy that he wrote the line 'without you' , which is the name of the song written by the central protaganist in del james series 'the language of fear'........axl stated that he had, unwittingly wrote that song.

Wow, what a weird question. I think I just aged four years....

Damn! why haven't they played estranged during this huge tour that hasn't started yet!

And not once during their epic 6-show world tour in 02!

New post: I wonder why Jim Morrison hasn't done any shows since he died!

Sorry, couldn't resist...

 :drool: ??? :no: :P

I think Axl has written songs lyrically as good or even better than Estranged or thing is we may never get to hear them all.  :( It is my favorite GNR song. Yeah it really is a shame it does not get the like NR or Don't Cry does. I think it is one of the best rock songs ever. It's sad how you never hear it at the top with Led Zeppelin, Stairway To Heaven or The Eagles, Hotel California.

Estranged... one of my absoloute favourite Guns tunes, and I think the band could handle it well. Go for it!

Me too dude, me too... :'(

Considering the song was released about 5 years before Slash left and who knows how long ago it was written, I doubt that very strongly.

I would like to hear it on this tour though. It is on the level of Coma, because it isn't the easiest song to play or sing live, especially when half of the band is wasted during the show. However with the changes in Axl's voice and the talent of the new line-up, I would love this to be on the setlist for any of the nights.

Wearing the hot-pants aside - If you're suggesting Axl wrote that line about Slash, that would be pretty gay - and I don't think he's gay :-X