Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I think its positive... This hopefully means that Duff/Slash are not holding the CD album back from being released...


DUFF MCKAGAN OF VELVET REVOLVER
Aidin Vaziri

Sunday, April 17, 2005

When the ramshackle cast of Velvet Revolver was first announced -- Duff McKagan, Slash and Matt Sorum of Guns N' Roses, singer Scott Weiland of Stone Temple Pilots and Dave Kushner -- people hardly expected the rock super group to make it past the gates of the rehab clinic, let alone onto the concert stage. Yet, so far, the band's first album, "Contraband," which debuted at No. 1 on the album charts, has sold 1.62 million copies in the United States. Last month, the band graduated to playing arenas, including the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, where it plays Tuesday. We spoke with McKagan..

Q: Let's get the big question out of the way first. What's going on with the Guns N' Roses album "Chinese Democracy"?

A: You know what? You probably know more than I would. I really have no idea. I've been so busy after leaving Guns N' Roses. I went up to Seattle, went to school and started having babies. And then this band popped up..

Q: Do you even want to hear it?

A: Not particularly. But I wish they would get it out after all this time..

Q: Do you think it's taking so long because it sucks?

A: Well, you know, spontaneity and rock 'n' roll go together. And chemistry. It comes back to the old adage: If it takes you more than five minutes to write a song, then just scrap it. I don't know. Axl Rose is a very, very fickle guy, and he changes his mind all the time. So who knows?.  
Q: Meanwhile, you hit rock bottom and are already back in the arenas.

A: I never considered it rock bottom. I never went into any sort of depression when I left Guns N' Roses. I just went into a new band and started playing. I went to college, which was something I always wanted to do. And I started having babies, which is definitely not hitting bottom..

Q: I know you played in Neurotic Outsiders. Weren't you also in another band called 10-something?

A: Was I? My long-term memory is pretty screwed..

Q: And you got into kickboxing and granola. You must save a lot of money on backstage "provisions" now.

A: Yeah, it's quite a different scene. There's not a bunch of booze, and no one is trying to score drugs. It's much more about the music and reacting to the crowd..

Q: I remember that band name now: 10 Minute Warning.

A: Oh, 10-Minute Warning! There you go. Yeah, I did do that. That's right. I should listen to that record more often. It was a good record. I don't think I even own a copy..

Q: Has your college education been helpful?

A: Absolutely. I really notice people are a little bit scared of me in meetings. They don't know how much I know. Even back when I was getting f -- up I was never dumb. That's a big thing I missed out on for almost 10 years. There were times I would pick up a book, but I was so f -- up I couldn't see the words on the page. That's pretty brutal. Now I'm a daily reader..

Q: How weird is it to go through all this again?

A: Oh, there are times when Slash and I look at each other onstage and the crowd is going crazy and it's like, "F -- , dude. We did it again." It doesn't happen very often. But it's pretty great. People tell us we saved rock 'n' roll..

Q: I just wish your pancreas was here to enjoy it.

A: No, it's here. That's why I'm here. My pancreas expanded and burst, but I made it through that and realized I was given a second chance. I saw myself from above the bed. I realized I'm here for a reason. There's a lot out there that I haven't even come close to experiencing yet.

I'm sure he wants to hear CD as mach as we do  ;D

Oh my...forgetting a band u were in and did an album with? One begins to wonder as to the accuracy of things he's said of late about many things.........

thats what i've always wondered about. there's times when duff said he can't even remember visiting lots of countries on the illusions tour - yet when it comes to remember  axl he's completely certain he was an asshole.

the nicest way to put it would be a "selective" memory.

Certainely not. This is one of the most stupid comment I have ever read from Duff. Yes you can write great songs in 5 minutes, yes it's possible, but for more epic material (November Rain, Estranged etc...) you need to work much more because the music is much more complex. It takes time. I also doubt Queen wrote "bohemian rhapsody" is 5 minutes, certainly not. I love the old guys but in my opinion, they are too "minimalist".

----> I think Axl is a more mature artist.

I don't think he meant it literally, it was just to get the point across ;)

Duff's been in about 40 bands for fuck sake!!!  10.  That's not a huge amount to go on.  I forgive him.  Mind you, I fuckin' love 10 Minute Warning's album!

seems this guy has got a strange opinion about himself. what a sad f#*k.  :-\

Now that explains why half of Contraband are below par.  :hihi:

If maturity is measured by 1 official original release in 14 years than you might be onto something.

 ::)

mature in term of artistic approach, in term of musical creativity.

Duff comes from the punk scene--he loves those raw songs, not so much the epic songs if u haven't noticed.  It's just his opinion....(I personally disagree, but that's bc I'm not a huge punk fan). 

If artistic approach is judged by endless tinkering and musical creativity is measured in years, not songs, Axl's way ahead of the game.

I repreat:  ::)

"Q: Do you think it's taking so long because it sucks?"

Well daaa! Every day Axl sits there with this music he is loosing money. All the band members have said the music is done. Its not like Axl can sit down and magically make the songs better than what they are. Face it people, this music isnt all that great, only reason it will see the light of day, some day, is because it has the GNR and Axl name.

Thanks for that ::)

If u want to complain about GNR try one of the VR boards, u'll be amongst like minded people there : ok:

 ::)

It depends on where your goals are.

When the goal is perfection in a subjective artistic medium, the goal becomes more important than the art itself, a neverending journey with no conclusion.

Nice point.

a neverending journey with no conclusion= life

Actually, death would be that conclusion. 

The ultimate finality.

I think that you will find that most peoples lives consist of many conclusions and the other aspects abandoned...not too many things during that journey never reach some form of conclusion or closure.
Especially when something like making CD is a major aspect of Axl's journey.

Well you could say that if u want to impress people who arnt very smart.
Never ending with no conclusion is right, thats why it will never come out. And theres a fine line between perfection and stupidity. And I think Axl crossed this line long ago.

You see what Axl had to deal and work with? Like I said he and slash like to half ass songs, Axl likes to work on them. Yes Axl likes to fuck with them for too long, but in guns there was a happy medium.

On the other hand, general consensus thinks, "You see what both the new band and old band have/had to deal and work with?"

2 sides to every coin..

LOL, listen to Slash's records, the songs have much more creativity than Axl's 'small guns'. BTW if 10+ years weren't enough for Axl to make a 'not half-ass' record, than he'll never have enough time for that. Hell, Beatles' career was shorter than the history of Nu-GN'R.

As we all know, NONE of Appetite for Destruction was worked over to much... they were essentially, if we use what you just said as a measurement, half assed.  But they're the best thing in rock.

I'm sorry but the time spent on a song has NOTHING to do with the quality of that song.  At the end of the day, if a song is shit, it's shit.  If it's ace, it's ace.  Spending another year working with the song ain't gonna make it ace, if it starts as a peice of shit.

Bingo. It very, very easy to lose objectivity on something when you spend long amounts of time very close to it. And without someone there that you trust and consider to be of equal opinion to pull you back and say 'hey, its time to let it go', you have the potential to just deliberate over it forever while you consider every possible way of attacking it. All the while never attacking anything. Not that we know of anyone guilty of that. :hihi:

I have absolute faith in the quality of the songs being there for the finished product. My fear is overproduction, and polishing everything to the point where  its amazing but lacking in those little extra sqeaks and scrapes and noises that make you fall in love with music. Anyone remember Megadeth's 'Countdown To Extinction'? Another great album that was pro-tools'd to death and so anal in its sterility and perfection that it was hard to enjoy.

The goals of the old band members and Axl became too different for them to coexist.  Duff, Slash, and Izzy are old school rockers who just want to have fun and make music.  Axl is a perfectionist who's dead set on making some epic masterpiece of an album.  That doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it's just a difference in philosophy.  As davegnfnr2k said, there was a happy medium between these factions at first but it became too strained and ultimately the differences were too great to overcome.  Without Axl, Slash has released a couple of substandard albums with the Snakepit, Duff did nothing worth noting, and they teamed up with Sorum and Weiland to make a good hard rock album.  Without the rest of the group, Axl juggled different lineups for the new band and once he was set, has slaved away for years in the studio searching for perfection.

If nothing else, the few new GnR songs we've heard have been more inspired and interesting than anything that we've heard from Duff or Slash since the band broke up at least in my opinion. 

thats a great post

Answer me this, how in the hell do you measure inspiration?

Please:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=15.0

As we all know, NONE of Appetite for Destruction was worked over to much... they were essentially, if we use what you just said as a measurement, half assed.? But they're the best thing in rock.

I'm sorry but the time spent on a song has NOTHING to do with the quality of that song.? At the end of the day, if a song is shit, it's shit.? If it's ace, it's ace.? Spending another year working with the song ain't gonna make it ace, if it starts as a peice of shit.


Ozzycat, here's where I disagree with you.  Have you heard some of the demos for Appetite songs???  Holy jesus, some of them are almost unlistenable.  "My Way, Your Way" comes to mind.  So no, if it's "aces" it's not always "aces."  You've got to develop these songs.  That's why I'm so f'in pumped for a true recording of IRS, why?  Because in this demo stage, I love the song!  Just remember, AFD and the UYI's didn't happen over night. 

 8)

What I mean by inspired is this.  The new Guns N Roses songs like them or not sound as though the group members are striving to be something more than run of the mill work, by the numbers work.  The Blues, Madagascar and Chinese Democracy are not just average rock songs that sound like they've been churned out without much thought or effort.  On the other hand, a lot of the music that Slash and Duff have produced since leaving the band particularly the Snakepit albums sound very run of the mill, there's nothing about the music that stands out as distinct or inspired.

Velvet Revolver to their credit seems more inspired than the other post-GnR work.  It's a good hard rock album and a hell of a lot better than most rock today.  But I still don't find it that interesting of an album. 

Axl took his time with November Rain and Estranged; worked on it until the final project reflected his vision. I am confident that the time he has invested will be well spent.

Hey, if that kind of stuff is what you enjoy, good for you.

thanks, I will. And yes....Good for me.

Some of you guys get bent real easy....

Is that right? I guess it's all relative...

Saying Be The Ball or Good To Be Alive have "more creativity" than Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, The Blues, or even IRS, is an opinion you're entitled to but I'm not sure it's shared by most GN'R fans.

As for Duff comments, maybe it explains why I've got a hard time with many VR and solo songs.

For sure. Listen to the riffs of GTBA (not the opening Gilby thing)... Or Be the Ball.. it's one of the greatest riffs I've ever heard and before some asshole turns in and says something stupid as the usually do I can assure everyone that I've heard a lot of riffs...

CD and IRS are really simple songs. Those who were complaining that Contraband had two simple songs didn't notice that these two are even much more simple... and I still can't see so much creativity in The Blues (although I like the solo and the bass), but Madagascar has some interesting moments but unforunately not the guitar parts. To tell the truth I can't find Nu-GN'R's music interesting, only Axl's vocal melodies, which are quite great (with the exception of Silkworms and Rhiad).

I did. Sorry I didn't think they were that great. I don't really like Slash's work outside GN'R (even though his work with VR is a bit better I think). It just shows how tastes can be different! ;)



Sure, but even though they're simple songs, it doesn't mean they are not good, or not inspired. It's So Easy is pretty simple, same thing with Don't Cry, it doesn't mean they're not good. My main grief toward Contraband is that it didn't make me feel anything, and music has got to make me feel something in order for me to like it. I don't really criticize the fact that their songs are simple or whatever. I gotta admit I'm not a big fan of Weiland's vocals and lyrics but I think there are some good ideas on their CD.

depends what you consider "worked over"
this is what Axl had to say about the production of AFD
(source:  May, 2004 , Paradise Lost, Classic Rock, May 2004 / link: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=111

Good point!  Duff and Slash keep saying that in the last days of old GNR Axl had turned into a dictator, but how can you act differently when your bandmates are a bunch of superficial junkies?

And someone said that Appetite was not worked on too much. Well I think people in the studio worked hard to make it sound like it was not worked on too much, to give it that "raw" feeling.

This thread is somwhat pointless, it's one person trying to place their opinions and personal tastes above the other. :yes:

Personally I don't think NR and Estranged would be what they were without Slash's guitar work which is as rich an experience for the listener as the vocal. That's the magic combo that both bands lack today.... that's just my opinion.

Duff is entitled to say what he likes, he was a co-writer to some of the greatest rock songs ever written so kudos to Duff, he's the real deal plus he was in the band which none of the Illuminati here can say (including myself).

Duff also mentioned that he worked very hard with Steven to work up the groove in the AFD songs. Sometimes working everday for hours before band rehearsal to get the swing that Duff loves in Motown music into AFD, so saying Duff was/is in any way half assed is untrue and unfair to him. His resume speaks for itself.


This is just BS, Duff was fit and sober when he quit Guns. There was no drug or alcohol problem, in fact Duff was training to run a marathon at the time.
Play fair people.
Intercourse.

So Slash and Duff liked to half-ass songs, and Axl liked to work on them so long they would never be released. This just goes to show they needed eachother for the balance you talk about so that Guns N' Roses could actually release albums in a timely fashion so that fans could actually have something to listen to.

For as bad as you claim those to were about half-assing songs, Axl takes it to the complete other extreme by debilitating the bands ability to record and release music. Unlike the current band members, at least S & D had the leverage to force him to get it in gear, which is the only reason we probably ever had the illusions album, otherwise we might still be waiting for it.

And if S & D's idea of half-assing the music is releasing a Contraband quality album every 18 months, I am OK with that because at least I can listen to what they were working on. I would take 6 of them over a 10 year period over no releases any day of the week.

Naupis says:
"And if S & D's idea of half-assing the music is releasing a Contraband quality album every 18 months, I am OK with that because at least I can listen to what they were working on. I would take 6 of them over a 10 year period over no releases any day of the week"


I agree with Naupis. I'd rather see my favourite musicians be productive and watch their sounds/lyrics/influences evolve and develop over time; that includes the good, bad and the ugly. Hell, I even like 'My World' after ten years!!  I like the human aspect of music and enjoy watching my idols react to their lives through their music. Silence is not golden.

To say you're happy for Axl to take ten years to make an album makes no sense to me. Judging by the amount of downloading of IRS (which by the way goes  directly against Axls's wishes),  people are lying when they say they are content to sit and wait for when Axl is finally ready to give his fans something. Even his die hard supporters have been taking anything that floats their direction and who can blame them for that?

You can't starve a dog and then get annoyed with him when he snaps at a thrown bone.
Sanctuary should have more sense,
peace,
Intercourse

Good analogy. Things should have been handled differently for a while now.

Cheers Dirt,
Again, are they fearful of Axl?
I mean can somebody in the marketing department just get him into a meeting and say:

'For fuck's sake just how long do you plan to leave your fans hanging for?'

Intercourse & Naupis, those were some of the most clear headed & rational posts I've seen here in a long time.? :beer:

I remember those arguments that 'Will you download a CD leak?' and some fanatics kept telling that they wouldn't download it, even if it isn't ever released... cause they only want to hear the result Axl completely satisfied with... Now the same people hail this leak...  :confused:

Cheers Providman!! The thing is I am just a tired, frustrated fan like all the rest. I love music and the simple fact is that nothing has really floated my boat except GNR, VR in a long time. I think blame lies on both sides for the demise of the band and to say 'Axl is an asshole' or 'Duff was a junkie' is just not fair to either party.
I am looking forward to the new band getting out there, I may not like certain aspects of their look etc but it's the music I'm really after.
I think from all the info gathered on what was/is going on with the band its just time for Axl to shit or leave the pot.

"shit or leave the pot"

 :rofl:

Why, does someone else own the pot?

yeh....4 other people actually co-owned it

so these 4 people that you allege are waiting to use the pot?

last i recall these 4 people went on to produce their own shit in their own pots.

Im sure if you check that these people still have a monitary an emotional interest in 'the pot'

Intercourse's reference, it's time to shit or leave the pot, was in reference to the release of CD


The time Axl takes to release of CD is of no concern to the 4 people who you say once 'co-owned' the pot.   The release of CD has nothing to do with the old band members.  And whilst they may be receiving residual monetary benefits from having once beein in GN'R they have no monetary claim or investment (emotional or otherwise)  in the release of CD.   As I already said, they have gone on to their own pots and produced their own shit.  How long Axl 'sits on the pot' has NOTHING to do with them.... they do not have any say or right about it and you have no point.

If GN'R is the pot, it's his pot... It's his time... It's his life... He can 'sit on' it indefinitley.
No one is forcing you to stand outside sniffing at the door waiting for him to drop CD.

If GN'R is the pot, it's his pot... It's his time... It's his life... He can 'sit on' it indefinitley.
No one is forcing you to stand outside sniffing at the door waiting for him to drop CD.

*plop*




reminds me of when Eddie Murphy reminded an audiance that Elvis could stick a mike up his ass and fart, throw it on a record and have the fans say, "god damn, that was the best saltine i ever had!!!!"

So true. Some people here have the same attitude.

Hey, I didn't initiate the "shit or leave the pot' analogy... I only expounded on it.
Intercourse was not in any way refering to the upcoming material as (potentiall) being of 'shit' quality.

so to get back on topic... before this thread produces further bathroom humour...



He doesn't particularly want to hear it but wishes they would 'get it out'??   :confused:
but hey, whatever - for that matter really don't care what he thinks about a process he is not involved in anyway.  ::)


I almost missed this.  This is exactly what Axl talked about in the quote from the article that I posted earlier in this thread.  : ok:

Regardless, it took around 2 months to record I think I remember reading. Even if it was 6, there is no way that CD will be 2000% better than Appetite, which is roughly the extra amount of time it has taken to record this album. It just goes to show that time is no barometer of how good something will sound, when the bands best work ever was done in the shortest amount of time.....whether they were trying to capture the raw feeling or not.

that is the true.  therefore why is the amount of time in question?