Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Me being a complete Zep head, I was just thinking the other day about Axl and Merck.  Merck seems to be alot like Peter Grant.  Grant believed in Zeppelin just like Merck believes in Axl-Gnr.  Grant would protect the band with every thing he had, fending for them.  Merck as we all know took up for Axl recently, and you could tell he was mad about the article.

       Gnr like Zeppelin were and are isolationist.  Zep stayed to them selves,  and werent intimidated by the media, or there expectations.  I have just recently paid attention to Merck, and what his goals are.  I am greatful we still have someone in the music industry that is legit, and doesnt go with the same ol song and dance.  I mean a guy that manages a band like Iron Maiden, is to me a real music lover.  I think Axl new what he wanted when he came into affilliation with him.  I started to think about how Axl is regarding the music industry and I can imagine he is disgusted.  Not only with that but also on the media perspective,  I dont hold any grudges on Axl for not communicating with the fans as I once did.  This man will redeem himself I think from the fans scrutiny of his lack of communication and win each and every fans back.

I mean take Zeppelin, when they had a finished product sure they gave there fans all they had, toured and found a massive following. Did they have the pressures of the media, or the internet to squander there intuition on how to make or break themselves, no they did things there way, along with Peter Grant, they were self made.  Did they make silly little repetitive music that would be radio friendly, no they did things there way.  I mean take a song like stairway, is the length acceptable on radio, no, but with there following of there beloved fans it was the most requested song on radio, and I believe it still is. 

Just like Zeppelin I think Axl is out to change the music industry or if not that, expose it for the true garbage it really is.  I mean we have already had some of the members tell us that some songs are epic.  Not totally exceptable for radio, which leads me to believe Axl is not out there putting together songs that will be the flavor of the month.  He has always never coward to anyone, or anybodies expectations.  Sure he wants to make music that stands the test of time and like Zeppelin music integrity was everything and there music is still with us today, as is appetite and the illusions.  Lets also take in consideration Gnr will probably tour a while in Europe.  I am American, and I hate how Americans fans can be, rude and unappreciative of great music.  From what I have heard, European fans are excited and hungry for something real.  I believe Gnr will conquer there, and I think Axl knows that he will be received overwhelmingly there.  He is not that concerned about the states that much until he feels he can win us over, which probably wont be hard, even though it will be great.  There will be Americans that will jump on the train, because they think its cool along with there bling bling. 

Axl also appreciates diversity, I mean the original Gnr came from all kinds of walks of life, as far as there interest went.  adler was the Kiss guy, izzy, the rolling stones, Duff with the punk scene, and slash, Areosmith, Zeppelin.  But each had a thing to offer when all came together the sum of all parts made an incredible thing.  The thing is about the new band we dont really understand just what they can do. We all know they come from all diff. backgrounds, so we dont know exactly what they are capable of doing, but Axl sure does and he must like what he hears, because they would all be gone.  Saying all that I believe this band and Axl have made something special and I am dyin each day I live to hear it.  :peace: 

 

good post.  : ok:

Good read, you put a lot of thought into it!! And you made some good points!

i was thinking the exact same thing a few weeks back, and over the past few days i've thought of peter grant and merck being similar.

I also think there's a connection between the evolution of music in the two bands. The step between something like communication breakdown to in my time of dieing for me syncs up with it's so easy and madagascar. All brilliant songs, but it's obvious which two are on the debut albums and which two have come after a long musical journey. There's also very obvious links with the push towards more prog rock. Even though there's only one quote to back this claim up, i really think (and hope) that CD will be a modern day physical graffiti.

Good post mate.

Great post.  : ok:
Why don't you trace a thing back to its origins?

Once upon a time there was a British band called The Yardbirds. The band was successful but went through numerous member changes. In Late '68 when the last founding man quitted, the only men remained in the band other than a manager was The fourth guitarist who originally had joined the band as a relief of the bass. He was formerly an acknowledged studio musician and he called his close session mate to join the band and swiftly they found a vocalist and a drummer. The reassembled Yardbirds took over the contract and toured until a founding member staked his claim on the band name. The guitarist and the manager didn't have the right that they were compelled to change the name. Then under a new band name they went ahead with a big tour in US and then released their self titled debut album in '69. Late in the same year their self titled second album made No. 1 in UK n US.   
The rest is history?
History is made every minute.

If you ask me, I'd picture the comparisons as:

GN'R OLD                         -The Yardbirds
GN'R Chinese Democracy    -Led Zeppelin

I like Zep a lot in spite of the alleged unoriginality in composition due to the rapid pace.
As for GN'R, if they ever become a Zeppelins second coming, the 2nd will surpass the 1st coz the former don't rush. Also the diversity makes the music more diversify....of a dazzling variety. like you said.

Fuck me! If that's true, then New Gn'R will end up being even more legendary than the Led!! WOW!!! I fucking hope that's true, because if it is... I will be the happiest bitch alive!! Why? Because I WILL BE A PART OF IT!!! I always get so fucking jealous of all the people who were at the right age to appreciate great music back when I was too young to even know what REAL music was, so if New Gn'R become like Led Zeppelin, then I'm gunna have someone to worship who HAVEN'T split up, AND who will become legends!
Dude, maybe I'll look forward to this even more than when I look forward to my hopeful career as a pornstar! :D Joke! But seriously I look forward to ChiDem! I LOOK FORWARD TO CHIDEEEEEEEEEEEM!!!!

Awesome post mack10!  : ok:

and ppbebe... I like the way you think!  :beer:

Cheers Eva and Elr?thiel.
I wasn't there either.  :hihi: Welcome to the club. I just read the Yardbirds-Zep saga. 
We needn't to envy them coz this band must be the best n the right one for us.
For now, Just an Allegory tho. :P

By the way does everybody get me? ???
The self titled album of the band that called itself The Yardbirds at birth is none other than............

The connection has always been there for me being as I consider Guns N' Roses the off-shoot of Aerosmith, who in turn were the off-shoot of Led Zeppelin.

That said, while the old band may have sounded more like Aerosmith, I'm expecting the new band to sound more like a modern-day Led Zeppelin.

There will never be anything quite like Led Zeppelin.

GNR and Aerosmith PUT TOGETHER are not a scintilla of Zep in my humble opinion.

That being said, the new GNR has no one to compete with but themselves. I'm sure CD will be an AMAZING rock album. One of the greats. Our kids will be talking about it years from now. This year will probably see the album's release and a great new time for rock. Drop it, Ax!

Yeah GNR could've been the next Led Zeppelin but unfortunately it wasn't meant to be. Axl wasted too many years of his prime. From 1994-2005 GNR should have had at least 3 or 4 albums under their belt, but we're still waiting for album number one. Very sad!!

GNR never had the diversity in their musical catalog to be anywhere near Led Zep. Different league. Still, you're right. Axl wasted too many years of his prime.

ALthough Axl did waste his prime years for touring that doesnt mean hes wasted anything creatively.

Yes he did waste his prime!!! If he had released material during that 11 year time frame, the music industry might look completely different today!!! Especially in the 97-99 time period when the industry didn't really know what direction to go in. Alternative was dying out and pop and rap were rearing their ugly heads. Axl could have done some serious damage to the scene at that time. 2005 is also a great year for Axl to unleaash his havoc on the world. Let's see if he blows this opportunity like he has all the others.

You are talking about 2 different things. COuld Axl have a better image than he has now if he continued to remain in the spotlight? Of course. But all of that has nothing to do with how he makes his music. He wasted his prime years being in the spotlight but his creative impact has not been affected.

Any year would be a great year.

Guns N' Roses in anyform will not be as influential or talented as Led Zeppelin..period..end of discussion

There are similarities though, Plant and Rose both have similar voices in the sense that they have impressive ranges. Jimmy Page layed the ground work for bluesy hard rock and Slash added his own take on that foundation.

Both bands took chances with their material which is why I love both of them. Communication Breakdown sounds nothing like Ten Years Gone or Achilles Last Stand....just as Nightrain sounds nothing like November Rain which sounds nothing like Coma.

I wish GNR had released a record in like 1989 or 1990..with tracks like You Could Be Mine, and Yesterdays. They were different then Appetite and Live! Like A Suicide and had a natural progression.

The band went too different too fast which left them with nowhere really else to go..which is why I think they broke up..Axl said lets go even farther..while the Band went we already have a massive range of music, lets stay this away for awhile.

I beg to differ. If the album had dropped at the time, it would have been a disaster. GN'R were at an all-time low in terms of credibility and popularity. It was fashionable to trash them left and right just for the hell of it.
Now is certainly a much better time.

Man am i the only one who finds this absurd??? :rofl:
How can u compare a band that has not released a second of music to led zep???
We are talking about led zep here!

How can u compare brain to john bohnam, finck to jimmy page and tommy stinson to john paul jones?this is a fucking disgrace!

Axl and co should release some albums first, sell out a number of tours and change the face of music as we know it before i will even dare to put nugnr in the same sentence as led zep



IMO that proves that gnr fans live in a world of their own. Even AXL himself wouldn't be so optimistic


just my 0.02

What is The self titled album of the band that called itself The Yardbirds at birth called, again? >:(


Sure enough, absurd is your superficial interpretation beside the whole point.
Neither mack10 nor me are talking about their musical similarities here.
While Mack's point being Axl's or Merck's serious attitude toward music bears comparison with that of Zeppelin, I suggested the forth guitarist of The Yard birds was the heart, soul and passion of the band in question, whatever the name was. It's an example of that The sound mind gets the sound body. He produced all of their albums. Check out credits on the records.

New GN'R songs argue the musical diversity of GN'R not to be in the same league with that of Led Zeppelin. In my books, no other band ranges over as wide as new GN'R. Who can argue that.


I'm not talking from such a mine-is-bigger-than-yours point of view.
There're many individuals who haven't been influenced or impressed by Led Zeppelin.
There will be many individuals who'd be influenced and moved by GN'R.
Music is one to one talk. You hear it with your own ears not with others ears.
Make sure you listen to the music rather than what others say about it.

Even if the original AFD line-up stayed together, they would never have matched the accomplishments of Led Zeppelin.

To then believe that a band that doesn't even know what everyone else is doing, thus not even really being a band, can match them is even more absurd.

For one, Axl now has musicians around him who are arguably less accomplished as a whole compared to the AFD line up.

And as for the Peter Grant/Merck comparison, please don't make me laugh.

Watch 'The Song Remains The Same':- Grant organised the tours and told the band when and where they were playing.

Doug Goldstein arranged a tour for Guns in 2001, and it got cancelled because of Axl.

there are indeed some similarities between Led Zep and nuGnr...
There's a big difference though. Led Zep has actually released some records, i mean is that so hard to  understand?


I agree with that. For example imo AFD is better than anything Led Zep has ever released!
Maybe i will like nugnr even more. But first they have to release something

just my 0.02

Methinks everyone's taking this a leeeeettle too seriously!! Mack10 wasn't comparing Gn'R to Led Zep, he was merely saying that Gn'R could become to us what Led Zep was to our parents! (that's if you're my age... being 18 is shit nowadays! I wish I'd been 18 in 1987!).
No one is comparing the Gn'R musicians' abilities to the Led Zep musicians' abilities! No one is saying "Look! Slash is better than Jimmy Page!" or "Brain is way better than John Bonham!"
Yes, Led Zeppelin are legendary! But so are Gn'R, and the creative force behind it is still going, so who knows what's going to happen!! No one is saying "Chinese Democracy will be better than anything Led Zeppelin ever did!" no one's saying that at all! Led Zeppelin are amazing, but if ChiDem is really that good, then roll on the good times! They say 1975 was the best year to be young? Well lets hope Axl makes 2005 the best year to be young! He already made a good contender for 1975 with 1987.
WE WANT CHIDEM!!! GIVE US CHIDEM AXL!!!!

To Axl (if he a: reads this and b: cares)
Hey man! Stop sitting around worrying about whether or not we're going to like it! Release it!! Its not like we won't buy it anyway! Sure there's internet piracy and shit like that, but who won't give up a chance to own Chinese Democracy? Its been in the making for yeeeeeaaaarss, and it already has enough controversiality, so just release it!!! I'm not going to be one of those shy mincing wimpy people who are too worried about how you'll feel if they tell you to release it, I'm just telling you "Release it, or give it a NON-DELAYED release date at LEAST!!!" If you're THAT worried about it, then just psyche yourself up for it! Just fucking release it, and then do a world tour! Its been a while, hasn't it... Come on, release it...you know you want to. Just pick up the album... take it to Geffen... say "Its ready"... walk out... and voila! Done! And then you can start work on a new one! :D

The current GNR member is the creative force behind piano ballads. Anything else besides singing you should give credit to the rest of GNR, because they are the creative force of GNR. Axl had ideas on what he wants the band to sound like, but he doesnt write music. Buckethead writes guitar riffs, Stinson does the Bass, Dizzy writes for his own keyboard. Pittman does sound effects. None of it is written by Axl.

This is by far, the most completely absurd thing I have honestly ever seen posted on this board yet. :rant:

Wake up and smell the coffee burning man. :nervous: :rant: :confused:

Axl doesnt write the music man. Every bandmember has said they are allowed to play whatever, just so it fits in the song structure they're working on - which usually are guitar riffs supplied by people in and out the group over years of sessions. Axl does not take part in the song process besides the vocal melodies/lyrics.

How the FUCK would you know that????? ???

Were you there????? :no:

I didn't think so..... :o

Yeah, I've thought about the GNR/Led Zeppelin connection before. And the Merk/Grant connection. I fart that kinda crap out all the time though, and never think anything of it. I expect Chinese Democracy to be a little more Zeppelin-esque than the old stuff, but I think Axl was always a little more Zeppelin-esque than the old members and their Aerosmith-ness... These words are great...  8)

Yeah, That's as may be, but vocal melody is a part of music no less. It carries the subject of the piece, which plays a vital role. The last, but not the least. Like The Speaker is not supposed to take the floor without leaving the chair.
Anyway thanks god it's nowhere near a one man show. That makes the band function properly.  : ok:

Well, It must be very hard to understand that the posts aimed at that subject belong to the Frustration thread in the Dead horse section. I don't think. ::)

Anyway, I'm happy to hear your view on the band.
Still there are old school The Yardbirds fans grunting about Jimmy Page, while the majority hasn't heard of a song off the band in which Zep had its origin. I was the latter until quite recently and am never the former obviously. :P

Here a question arises. 
Dear Naysayers, sure it's just a parable now, but are you sure you don't want to see it happen?

   Thanks guys/gals for your generous feedback and replies, I thought it would make for an interesting discussion,and it did.  History will repeat itself and maybe its illustrious past will historically find its way back, and I personally believe Axl will arrive
when its time to sweep the kitchen so to speak, getting everything intact inorder to unravel the mystery of what a magical album used to be and what it can be in today's world.




Yeah as for disease 51883, thank you for responding as well, I am glad we as fans can be on the same page, and I fart/think about those things everday as well, its a normal occurrence I think in every fans life to think about the similarities and differences of two bands that have had a profound effect on them, which in turn is why I decided to bring up the subject inorder to get feed back, you know find a subject we could all relate too and talk about, because message boards are fun, and yes your words were great.  :rofl:

I'm glad someone else finally realizes that. I need to get a hold of the people at Webster's and try to get "Zeppelin-esque" in there.

? ?

haha!  Awesome.   : ok:



I catch myself doing that all the time when reading about other bands and artists.  Most recenty in reading Billy Joe Armstrong's comments (in RS) about how the band members were growing apart and how he had a lot of trouble coming to them with his new song/musical direction ideas.    Also recently reading another great piece in RS on Bob Marley I had to think immediately of GN'R when Chris Blackwell said how he was warned not to deal with the Wailers because they had a really bad reputation for having a really bad attitude...   (both great pieces, suprisingly, in the last 2 RS issues)




As for the comments in this thread about Axl's lack of musical contribution to GN'R...  :nervous:
The most recognizable aspect of a song is its MELODY.
Take away the melody and it's guitarists and rythum section jammin'...
some really cool jammin'... but not a song IMHO.  :peace: