Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Not to brag, but I do want to set the record straight regarding a few things.  One thing is for sure, when reporting rumblings  from the industry on this sight, most of the time the news is quickly disregarded and most of the time put down as a rumour or just plain false.  The level of the animosity directed at any messanger delivering news that runs counter to the assumed idea that--CD is coming next month, that Axl is a God, or that the new band may not work out--is nearly unmatched on the web.  I readily admit, I have no firsthand knowledge of anything going on inside the GNR camp.  But I have many friends who work as studio musicians in LA who get bits and pieces of news.  One of these friends knows a few people who have worked with Izzy in the past, and sometimes he get's information usually never seen in print or even on the web regarding the Indiana side of the GNR family tree.  To summarize, though, the careful eye can glean when "real" information is posted on this site, and usually when not coming from Mysteron, it is destroyed or ignored.  Real nuggets often go unnoticed until later when an event like the Times article hit's.   

There were a few pieces of information posted last year (under a differnt alias), which after today's NY Times feature is now relevant again, that I heard and distributed to the board which was quickly and resoundingly dismissed and basically attacked as heretic bollocks.   For the record, it was quite well known by many in Universal circles that GNR was basically let go (funding stopped, all hope lost) by the label last February.  At that time talk of an Independent release was floating around. Moreover, in early 2002 it was revealed by a few that there were "feelers" sent out by both Axl's camp (possibly unbeknownst to Axl) and the former members camp's (Duff, Izzy, Slash collectively) regarding some material recorded and some material written.  There were informal inquiries about the chance of Axl listening to it and sharing some ideas.  I have heard as recently as last month, that there is a decent chance that some form of communication still exists between parties (not necessarily at the top levels, but by those still close to Axl and the former members), and that some of the information discussed surrounds the idea of a future reunion and future material which could be used or that has been written. I think my friend said the engineer who told him this said something like "it's like Aerosmith, even if they are not communicating directly, the industry machine communicates for them--with millions of dollars on the line that door is never shut."   Many of my friends in LA studios hear second-hand rumblings from people familiar with both camps whom believe Izzy would be instrumental (if anything comes to fruition) in arranging and serving as a liason of sorts to start up any future writing/collaborative/creative sessions between the original comrades.  It is interesting that Slash has now mentioned music that was written in 2002/03 with Izzy and Duff that was in not so many words written with Axl in mind.  My friends who hear this shop talk speculate that if anyone from the former camp still talks to Axl, at 3 am periodically, without anyone else in the world knowing, that it is Izzy.  Again, the above information is gleaned from numerous conversations and based on third, fourth and fifth hand shop-talk from the studios and those connected inside the industry.  It could all be mostly ture,  half true, or not at all, who knows???

Now, last night I was afforded the wonderful opportunity to see Paul Westerburg live from the front row and backstage.  He played three hours, and was dead on every note, and overall was phenomenal.  Closing with classics such as--Alex Chilton, Left of the Dial and I Can't Hardly Wait--it was one of the best raw rock show's I have ever seen.  Westerburg should be commended for what he is:  a musical genius.  Before and after the show, I had some nice chat's with Paul's longtime mgr. who is quite a guy and is very involved with all things Replacements going on nowadays.  I want to protect privacy and the nature of our conversation, but want to let everyone know a few things that will complete the puzzle on what has been going on the last year and a half.  He said first of all that he arranged the recent recording's between Tommy and Paul and in not so many words thought there could be future collaborating in the near future.  I did not take his comments, which I am not going to get into, as one's that would indicate that Tommy has total confidence in the future of GNR.  He did mention that Tommy thinks Axl is a genius and loves the hell out of him.  But, I got the sense from his statements regarding Tommy that this GNR chapter is possibly in it's last paragraph, and everyone may be heading back home so to speak for obvious reasons.

I would assume that recent album releases, tours, and departures from the band all lead to the Feb. 2nd date mentioned in the article:  the paychecks stopped coming, thus in Dizzy, Richard and Tommy's situations they had to find some sources of income.  Buckethead was in it for the money, and quit once the paychecks ceased.  I think Tommy maybe rekindling some old-school creative magic that is in his blood, and that Axl maybe contemplating the same to save his career.  At some point the material will see the light of day, but financial realities and career realities may override creative pride in the short term.

Very interesting.I always saw Izzy as the key piece in any reunion since he seems the middleman. But in your last paragraph you seemed to say Tommy may be dis-satisfied with GnR. Did I read that right? It wouldn't supprise me really, I think everyone has been exceedingly patient.

Not dissatisfied, but my take was that this current project has run it's course and he maybe moving on to new creative endeavors.  That is my analysis, and the mgr. did not indicate or state this, but one can read between the lines pretty easily at times.

So basically Tommy , you feel, is moving away from Guns?  This seems similar to what Buckethead did. He left due to lack of production (I think that was the reason??)  Nothing is suprising to me anymore  :hihi:

Thanks!

I have no idea, but he is definitely involved in his own work and there is a chance for other projects that maybe enticing in the near future.? Tommy definitely is committed to the work he did for CD, and loves Axl.? But, I get the feeling that food has to be put on the table, and that time may have run out on the CD project.  I really don't know anything for sure, but you know, without saying too much, feel that it's just a sad deal right now.

Paul W has not been a fan of Axl Rose now or ever; why exactly do we take the word of his manager especially when you admit he didn't say that Tommy was leaving guns? Forgive me for being skeptical, but all of this sudden doom and gloom is a bit fishy.

I just cannot see a reunion; not with the state of VR and the copious amount of crow that Axl would have to eat.

I hope cd comes out.
but the replacements would be awesome again if chris mars
and slim dunlap are back in. what about mars?
the replacements and gnr are my two favorite bands.
different sides of the spectrum but great music.
I have seen the mat's a couple of times
as well as Tommy's Perfect.

I was fortunate enough to catch GNR in vegas w/ finck and tommy

Do you think they will release Chinese D .....ever?
Do you see a possible reunion playing chinese D material?

Do

so if this is true, Merck must have laid one of the biggest whoppers in industry history with his complimentary remarks about Axl's new record.

Paul W. has no opinion of axl. ?If you have ever met the guy, you would realize that he is walking wit, smart ass, and is very capable of making harmless comments that can easily be misinterpreted. ?I don't think he has any beef with the guy. ? Moreover, I am just putting together some pieces of the puzzle, and just confirming for those in the reality based world that last Feb. may have been a more significant date than anyone wants to admit.?

I want to make clear, that we only briefly talked about Tommy S. and what he may or may not be involved in, in the near future. ?But, if anyone thinks the last year of touring and the release of the solo album were just a way to spend some downtime, ?then you may want to make sure both of your feet are firmly planted on the ground. ?

Isn't Tommy drawing a salary from the management group, i.e. Axl? Why would paychecks stop for the band in February since I was under the impression that the label paid Axl and Axl paid the band.

Sorry, do you mean February 2005? ?What deadline was there?

I thought he was referring to feb 2004.

You could be correct, i don't have a clue regarding this. ?But, the NY Times article indicated that the bandmembers were being paid up to $11K per month by Universal/Geffen.

Thats what I thought at first...Feb '04?

Axl's publishing deal is now  a relevent issue b/c Sanctuary acquired the publishing rights to axl's share of the old and NEW catalog of songs.  merck says he has heard the material; i don't see why they would pay out so much money for an album that little chance of coming out. I dunno. Doesn't sound like good business. The only saving grace is that Sanctuary has 20 years left on the deal.

My friend Qunate made a good point to me. Why wouldnt robin rejoin NIN if back in Feb 2004 the paychecks ceased?

After reading the Times article, I wonder if Duff, Izzy and Slash and co. want to make amends and help Axl get back out there and rock?  I mean they must have some compassion and feel bad for Axl and his creative frustrations.  They know, and I see them say it many times, that Axl is really trying and capable of making a great album.  They also know the difficulties of working with a major label and the business in general.  I think they must at times feel almost sorry for Axl; sometimes I think I even hear it in their quotes.

I just get the feeling that after expending so much energy with no results on CD, that everyone maybe going back to the drawing board once more.  I don't know though.  But, I do think Axl has one surefire way to revive his career and get his message back on the streets:  that woud be a straightforward, simple, rock album crafted with and toured behind with Duff, Slash, Izzy, Dizzy and maybe Taz Bentley or Steven Adler on drums.  I actually think Matt Sorum is as much as a "Yoko" as Paul Tobias was.  I think Matt would not figure into a likely reunion in the next five years.

This thread is just a bunch of crap. No real substance--we don't even know if the original poster went to see Paul Westerberg or has friends in the industry.

I have no basis to say this, but I just don't think slash and duff walk away from VR. Plus, they are currently suing the ass off of Axl. Unless this latest continuance is an overture of peace, as slash said in the BTM piece, they are a long way away from mutual respect.

one thing i don't understand...
as the members often said that they're parts were done...

shouldn't the paychecks stop there when they're not workin on it?

You are correct, how would anyone know. ?I admit, I have no firsthand knowledge, ?no groundbreaking news, and generally know no more about the situation than anyone. ?Moreover, I also know that this is a messageboard, that speculation is what makes this place go, most of us love GNR, and that there are very disturbing trends surrounding the completion of this album and that the confirmation of Universal closing down the project in Feb. 04 is the most significant piece of news regarding GNR since the departure of Slash. ?Combine that with Stinson and Westerburg recording again, and you can imagine that not all is on track for a surefire happy conclusion for the CD sessions.

I think what minn is saying is that since the studio cut off funding, the band who had probably stopped being paid when their parts were done, lost faith that there would be a release and a tour. They needed to find additional income b/c the wait was going to be a long one if not permenant. Correct me if i am wrong.

Well, I have no confirmation or indication of their faith in the project.  I do know that regardless of well, paying out a $50K payroll every month without new forms of very significant income would be tough on the wealthiest of American's.  Moreover, the Times article specifically points out the salaries of the bandmembers being paid by the label, not the management company.  The deal with Sanctuary is over publishing rights, not related to the current labels deal.  I think, even with the up in the air (with lawsuit hanging over it) Sanctuary deal, there could be financial problems sneaking into the picture.

ok, yes.

so the company funded the production cost- and the musician got payed when did work (not in dead time right?)
-and fund stopped and the musicians had to work 4 free?

Or that they stopped musically, no work=no paychecks? so they do x-projects 2 have a living?

But they say the music is done and the members seems eager in the media 2 have it out and start rockin
so i don't think the future of gunsnroses looks dark ?: ok:
Lets not forget the publishin deal, sanctuary and merck either then ?:beer:

I would think there is a clause in the publishing deal whereby some new material has to be released.

Also, I am not certain the band gets paid every month, regardless of whether they are working on CD or not. Anyone know this?

Merck's comments though have me second guessing the Times piece. I hope we get a statement from somebody.

AlThats what i'm curious about 2... tho seems reasonable they not.
Yes, we should get something, because theory's is really startin 2 evolve...
we know it's gettin new material out, thats in the work 4 now at least? :peace:

Intrestin thingie MPNM? ;) but it will get soft if a reunion happens  :hihi:

"With the band's return, Mr. Rose's machinery cranked up again. One internal cost analysis from the period pegs the operation's monthly tab at a staggering $244,000. It included more than $50,000 in studio time at the Village, a more modern studio where Mr. Baker had moved the band. It also included a combined payroll for seven band members that exceeded $62,000, with the star players earning roughly $11,000 each. Guitar technicians earned about $6,000 per month, while the album's main engineer was paid $14,000 per month and a recording software engineer was paid $25,000 a month, the document stated." from NY Times article.

actually we are questioning whether the band kept getting paid even after they finished their parts. We have statements from tommy, diz, and fortus that the music parts have been done for some time. It is a piece of information that hasn't been put together with what we are reading here.

Without going on a rant I dont think we should completely buy into these negative vibes. Tommy's radio interviews said when the album comes out Tommy will be there and ready to tour when they call his name, so dont buy into this I talked with a guy at a bar thing.

For the record I believe( know)Slash, Duff and Izzy will be reuniting. I'm just wondering will we get to hear CD with Tommy and the new guys or will CD be performed with the Big Guns themselfs.
Who will tour for Izzy? if all he does is writes and works in the studio at home. Or will he tour?

Oh, did I say to much for all these key pounders????? 

Honestly get a grip people! I dont know shit about whats happening in the guns world just like none of us do! But come on eh If all was not well in the guns camp, why would Tommy and Dizzy and more recently this Merck dude have given interviews about how great the album is and how they cant wait to get out there and tour this summer? And more importantly I dont have major knowledge of how a fucking huge music corporation like Sanctuary works, but I would put a lot of money on that they know enough about their industry and the bands that they have signed that it would be pretty fucking bad business sense to sign this recent deal if the album was unlikely to come out! I'm not saying any of you people ent proper fans or anything like that, but please keep the faith and stay positive cos I do believe that this is the last leg of whats been a long wait for the album that we all want to hear!

Can anyone tell me when Merck started managing Axl? This is relevant as things seemed to have worked out very well for Axl in terms of Merck taking over as the CEO of Sanctury. Surely its possible to say that when Axl was cut off financially Merck pulled some strings and provided Axl with what he needed. We know the band members where still getting paid as Brain, i think it was Brain said that he was still in GnR aslong as the Cheques kept coming in.

Now with Merck as CEO it could go two ways, he either has so much faith in Axl that he is willing to give him as much money and as much time as needed to complete the album.... or he uses the fact that he has supported Axl for such a long time with supposed money and the publishing deal and slowly pushes Axl into wrapping the record up.

Just my thoughts on this.

Jonx

April 24th, 2001
GUNS N' ROSES AND DOUG GOLDSTEIN FIND SANCTUARY
 
 
Sanctuary today continued its expansion in the United States music market with the announcement that rock superstars Guns N' Roses and their long time manager, Doug Goldstein, are to join the Group. 
---
 
I don't know when Merck started managing the band, but that's when it was announced GN'R had signed to Sanctuary.



/jarmo

Interesting to say the very least, but a little short on substance.

the engineer strikes Again!!!
So, in your plot, are you a tool on the side of the industry machine?
Sorry, dude. I've heard more n more different stories from "the telltales(?)" n "friends of a engineer/crew " and decided to believe The band only. Not a hearsay such as Brains irony.
Yeah, I was guessing they have been paid little if not zero for a year from the way they says "when it starts, I'm in!".
Getting no payroll, no respect, yet they have their hearts set on GN'R. Have you ever thought of that?

I ask you do you have a heart? Emotion? Hello? Hollow?

This is what Tommy has said


Despite recording a track recently with Paul Westerberg, Tommy Stinson has told the LA Times that he would reject a Replacements reunion tour. He told the LA Times, "If they were throwing the kind of money at us like they were throwing at the Pixies, I would have to look into it because I'm in this to obviously sell records and make a living....


so the money issue could be there for Tommy.

This sounds like BS! but i really think someone gotta take some deep breaths here.

I want to clarify that no specifics were mentioned that Tommy is going to record with Paul ever again, or that anything regarding Tommy's involvement with the current GNR project was questioned.  It was obvious that he was still involved with the project.

I thought you would be done with this nonsense already............Danny

And Tommy also said this about Axl:



"You're with him or against him"
GN'R BASSIST LIFTS THE LID ON FRONT MAN AXL ROSE
GUNS N' ROSES bassist Tommy Stinson has spoken to Kerrang! about the band's reclusive frontman Axl Rose.

"We have a great relationship," says Stinson. "He is very supportive. Hopefully some time soon the press will want to talk to him about the positive shit that is going on in his life now. Not just about drugs and drink like the way they always do. But when people come to see Guns N' Roses, they come to see one person, we know that."

Stinson, a member of GN'R since 1998, also revealed he would be happy if the band's original line-up decided to reform.

"If there was a lot of money on the table for the original GN'R to get back together I would totally back it," he explains. "Axl has been nothing but good for me and good to me. If that was what he wanted to do and needed to do then I would totally back him.

"Having said that I can't see it happening," Stinson muses. "He [Axl] is your best friend until you break the chain and then he doesn't want to know you. There are no half measures; you are either with him or against him."

Fans have been waiting for Axl and co's album 'Chinese Democracy' for over a decade, but Stinson reckons the wait is almost over.

"It's a hairs breadth from being finished," he adds.


In defense of the poster who started this thread, I have no doubt in my mind that Tommy is frustrated with GNR.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know about Duff, but I think hell will have to freeze over before Slash even considers having to 'deal' with Axl again. :peace:

aren't slash and duff already in some band, i think they have a platinum album and are about to start recording their second album.

i can't believe some people still think there is some chance of the old band getting back together again.

tommy made a weird comment at the hotel cafe which i posted under the tommy thread.  he said he didnt like it when he was in a band that people viewed as a god.  I hope this isnt anything because I could care less about the original line up.  I want CD.  Robin Fink, Tommy, Brain, Dizzy and whoever

This is all pretty interesting...
Also being from Minneapolis, I know people who know Tommy...not really well, but more as an aquaintance.
And I can absolutley say that Tommy and Slash/Duff/Matt have mutual aquaintences in the music industry.
Meaning, rumors and information can easily be passed from the old GnR to the new GnR and vice versa.
L.A. isn't that big of a place.
Anyway, in one regard, I can never see Axl reuniting with the original guys before he releases Chinese Democracy.
I don't think his ego could ever handle not letting this "masterpiece in the making" see the light of day or being
looked at as a failure.
But this posters information does make some kind of strange sense to me.
I think Tommy is incredibly frustrated, but knows how to publically stroke Axl ego and stay
positive about the album.

as much as i agree that axl's ego could not handle a reunion before cd comes out, their is a chance that this album to axl was never good enough or to anyone it was not good enough, and he would rather suck it up a join the old guns then fail with the new ones.  also i find it very strange about all this coming out in the ny times about guns if nothing is to happen soon, and also why is this guy merck getting so defensefull.  I honestly can say i have no idea what is coming next (cd, nothing ever, or a reunion)


and also we all know if we woke up one morning and heard guns was back together as soon as they began rehearsing we would probally hear a few days after that it was over because of creative differences or some bullshit.