Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This is from a speech Merck made earlier this month at the Concert Industry Consortium conference.? Just nice to know he's hopeful.? Got this from Sp1at (thanks, Gigger), and the text of the entire speech is up at Mygnr...it's a really good read, actually.

Here's the part we're interested in:

"The faith, bond and trust built with the people that matter are the secret behind every career artist?s success and it is the reason why everyone in this room hopes that Iron Maiden, Neil Young, Robert Plant, Tom Petty, Black Sabbath with Ozzy, Elton John, The Who, Fleetwood Mac, Eminem, Guns N? Roses, and Morrissey will tour this summer, because you know the faithful will be there with their bums on seats to be baptized once again."


(Emphasis mine)

/Mike

(Edited to fix a grammatical error I made!)

Well, thanks again for absolutely no news yet  again Merck. You da man! We've "hoped" for this shit for years now... nothing different.

awsome news! and this is from sp1t??

sorry gigger, i was totaly wrong. ;D

i hope they release the album before any touring

This is the speech Merck held:
http://www.pollstaronline.com/cic2005/cic2005keynotespeakers.htm

Another Axl mention:

The consumer lays his money down because he believes in Neil Young, Robert Plant, Axl Rose, Lou Reed, Eminem, 50 Cent or Slipknot. The artist gives us a reason to exist and provide a service. The great architects of our industry, many of whom I?ve already mentioned, all knew this, but in recent years we have seen the rise of the executive that believes it is all about him or her. That attitude and the lavish spending and expense accounts that accompany it have put music as an important part of our culture in jeopardy.

--

The golden era of the music business targeted the music enthusiast. In today?s world, he has been disenfranchised while the majors chase the passive consumer who, as we discovered above, does not give a fuck about music.


This is why we now work in a business that is dictated to by research, focus groups, BDS, SoundScan, and Bree, Susan, Lynette, Gabrielle, Edie or one of the other 100 million desperate housewives across the country that decide what music you get to hear on the radio, because it may influence their decision as to which soap powder they might buy.


I put all of these gifts of technology under the category of ?professional excuses.? The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Iron Maiden, Guns N? Roses, Slipknot, Eminem, and Metallica didn?t need BDS, SoundScan or the desperate housewives. Brian Epstein, Andrew Loog Oldham, Allen Klein, Steve O?Rourke, Peter Grant, Bill Curbishley, Rod Smallwood and Cliff Bernstein did not need BDS, SoundScan or the desperate housewives to sell millions of records, concert tickets and merchandise around the world. It?s arguable they did not even need radio or MTV.




/jarmo

Please, who is Merck trying to kid?

As if those bands would have been a fraction as big as they are/were without those 'excuses' - those bands have reaped the benefits as no other band has.

I think he's talking about how bands didn't need all this market research etc. to make it big or to sell concert tickets.

Read the whole speech. It's interresting.




/jarmo

Yes, i got that

But its naive to believe GNR, Eminem, Metallica etc could have ''made it on their own''

Without that mass exposure we'd have never heard of them! It doesn't matter how good a band is if people don't know about then

If anything the bands he mentioned show how useful those 'exucses' are.

As for the other bands he mentioned - it was not as if they succeeded despite being ignored - all of them have recieved horrific levels of backing from those same ''excuses''

Show me a band that succeeded in selling out arena's/stadium and have diamond certified albums with absolutely no tv/radio backing etc. Just look at pre-Black album Metallica sales and post Black album sales - MTV has been worth about 80 million albums to them

Iron Maiden sold out Ullevi stadium in Gothenburg in about 2.5 hours. 50000 tickets.

You don't hear/see them being played on music channels here.


He didn't say none of the bands needed MTV. MTV was added at the end of the paragraph. It's kinda clear what he means to me. You don't need to know what the housewives think of your band if you wanna sell tickets or t-shirts.

The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, The Who or Iron Maiden didn't need MTV.



/jarmo

mh..   i don`t know...   i`m a gnr fan since 1 or 2 years now, and i`m for the most part fan of the NEW gnr. first i did only know the old gnr, but i became a fan when i came to know the new one so there hasn`t to be all this promotion and stuff to become a fan, but i think for the majority you`re right.


And as Merck i`m hoping for a summer tour of gnr, too........ ::)

 :D Hey, Welcome to the club, WARose!


I wonder if there was MTV in the mythological times of them.

uh. market research is everywhere.
and in some way, flyers for Guns n Roses weren't sent to a 50 years old woman.
when there is advertisment (even in its lowest form. word of mouth ...) there is a market research.

the difference is that , some time ago, market reseacrh was made AFTER the creation
now as, merck says, the market research tells what to create ....

The fact that he is mentioning Axl Rose and GNR is reason for optimisim .. i mean if this guy believed that axl and gnr werent gunna do anything he wouldnt even mention his name. Even though this doesnt give us any "news" persay , release date , tour or whatever it's still a case of the glass is half full , NOT half empty.  : ok:

Hoping for a summer tour????

We all are Merck we all are  :peace:

Master of Puppets went platinum before Metallica ever made a video and I don't think it got much airplay on the radio. I know it's not selling 80 million but I think having a platinum album constitutes "making it".

this is all good. The first official confirmation of a rumor. : ok: :nervous:

First to clarify my position

Merck claims these bands didn't need the media etc to get them where they are.

I disagree.


Perhaps, but only those living in a cave have escaped hearing of Iron Maiden through one medium or another. They wouldn't have sold so many tickets without radio etc etc - they wouldn't have 'made it' like that on their own.


If u want people to buy the stuff they first need to hear the stuff

There are thousands of bands out there signed and unsigned, doing the rounds in tiny venues, better than Iron Maiden or Guns N Roses etc - trouble is we'll never here them - they have the talent but without people knowing of them it all goes to waste.

GNR were ignored in America to begin with - and then MTV picked up Sweet Child O'mine and it exploded.

Talent isn't enough

It was never enough


True, but they had about 10,000 radio stations helping them along the way. They had newspaper articles etc.

Face it - how do u know of these bands? Media exposure, the media decided who was good and then told u about it. The media made them famous long before the talent confirmed anything.

It's more than obvious that talent doesn't lead to success. Many bands have talent but fortune rewards few of them. The key component is media. GNR ruled the world because they had radio friendly stuff than MTV liked.

Look at the music situation now - MTV doesn't back ''rock'' and the bands no longer appear - do u honestly believe musical talent has just died? A 21st century Pink Floyd is out there - its the media that will determine if they suceed. Not their talent.

Metallica are an intresting case, but at best they are the exception that proves the rule

It took 6 YEARS for Kill em all to go GOLD
It took 4 YEARS for Ride the Lightning to go GOLD

It took months for Justice (with Metallica's first video single) to go 2x platinum

Read this again


Then consider this,

Metallica had sold less than 1.5 albums in America before Justice. They have now sold 56 million in America. They didn't need radio or TV?

Of course not :P

You don't need radio exposure if you've got loyal fans. That's the point.

Loyal fans will buy tickets, not housewives who have no idea or even care about the artists that are on the radio. Iron Maiden might have been on the radio in the 80s. That's not what sells tickets today. The fact that they kept the fans is selling the tickets. I don't see Culture Club selling 50000 tickets in 2.5 hours. They were on the radio too back then.


The golden era of the music business targeted the music enthusiast. In today?s world, he has been disenfranchised while the majors chase the passive consumer who, as we discovered above, does not give a fuck about music.


That's the point I get from reading the article. How the industry has changed.

The point isn't whether or not you need MTV. You can argue all you want about how important the media is. Yeah, exposure on MTV and radio sells albums. Nobody's arguing about that. But you can sell tickets without MTV as Merck pointed out.






/jarmo

But they got the loyal fans BECAUSE of the exposure - people heard it, liked it, and became dedicated to it. Take Def Leppard. 1983 it was Def Leppard who? Despite 3 albums. Then MTV started playing 'Bringing on the Heartbreak', the rest is history. How many die hard fans did they have before that? Not many.

Nirvana. How many copies of Bleach had they sold begore 'Smells like teen spirit'? the talent was there, but the fans weren't.



Chicken and the egg. The media raised Iron Maiden up, the fans keep them there - it wasn't the fans that raised them up first though



But very, very few tickets - without MTV they would have sold 1000 max and that seems optimistic. Obviously word of mouth can get u so far - that's clear, but if u want real success its the media that will take u there, the fans pick up the rest after they've been told avout it.

Without serious media coverage - none of us would be talking about Iron Maiden.

OF COURSE, u can sell albums without mass coverage, but Merck claimed u could be a serious success without ''soundscan'' etc. That's absurd. It's never happened. No band just sold millions of copies out of the blue - they were carried there.

like the media creates its stars instead of finding them and putting them out there




Wouldn't the Greatful Dead be another good example to demonstrate what Merck was talking about.? The Dead and their fans thrived on the live show - the touring.... not radio play and market research which told radio what to play, etc.

Great speech by Merck btw? : ok:

Merk can hope all he wants... along with all the other people in the room... but if Axl says it isnt ready then it isnt ready...

who the hell is merck?   thats a stupid name to give a baby

I just went back and read the Merck's entire speech, and I have to say that he seems like a wise fellow. I'm glad that GNR's doing business with him, and hopefully they'll continue to do so as much as possible in future. Sanctuary Records, maybe?...

I had a sneaky suspicion once Merck became CEO, he'd start 'leveraging' the GNR name, its easy to be cynical about this from a business perspective but at the same time the publishing deal makes me think GNR is a core part of their future strategy.

If you think Iron Maiden would sell 1000 without MTV today, then you haven't been paying attention.

You didn't respond to why Culture Club isn't selling out stadiums today since they were on MTV and radio in the 80s just like Iron Maiden.


All the "old" bands, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Bruce Springsteen, The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney are doing quite well without having their latest singles being played on MTV. It's because they have fans who have been there since the days they actually were on MTV maybe 20 years ago.

GN'R sold out arenas thanks to being popular in the late 80s/early 90s in 2002. They weren't getting their new video played on MTV in 2002 for obvious reasons.



/jarmo

This is a recent interview with Bob Dylan-sort of ties in to Axl, what Merck is saying, the media and the state of music today..interesting. I will post my thoughts after hearing what some of you say.

Bob:In the early '90s when I escaped the organized media, they let me be.
They considered me irrelevant, which was the best thing that could have
happened to me. I was waiting for that. No artist can develop for any
length of time in the light of the media, no matter who it is. If the
media was commenting on every article you wrote, imagine what it would
do to you.
Q: Do you worry, that the latest rash of awards and acclaim will make
the media start focusing on you again?

BOB: No, that time has passed. Once they move away and lose track of
you, they'll never catch up with you again. They're off searching for
someone new to put a label on.


BOB: I know there are groups at the top of the charts that are hailed as
the saviours of rock'n'roll and all that, but they are amateurs, They
don't know where the music comes from . . . I was lucky. I came up in a
different era. There were these great blues and country folk artists
around, and the impulse to play 'those sounds' came to me at a very
early age. I wouldn't even think about playing music if I was born in
these times."

BOB: I'm not sure people understood a lot of what I was writing about. I
don't even know if I would understand them if I believed everything that
has been written about them by imbeciles who wouldn't know the first
thing about writing songs. I've always said the organized media
propagated me as something I never pretended to be . . . all this
spokesman of conscience thing. A lot of my songs were definitely
misinterpreted by people who didn't know any better, and it goes on
today.

phish didnt get much radio or mtv  airplay.  I think they did ok.  GnR can do the same.

good stuff from dylan... as much as I dont like them, pearl jam did the right thing.  they pulled them selves out of the mtv media game and just played their music.  they are kinda untouchable now.  I dont know if Axl will ever be able to do that though.  He's been an icon for too long during the mtv generation where every time he took a shit it was on mtvnews.  I also think he's gonna want to do videos and get back on top.  To sell what CD needs to sell he kinda has to.  Then maybe after that he can back away a bit with the other albums that will follow. 

It's funny that he mentions Neil Young with all of those Greatest Hits acts.  Neil Young does small venues with obscure set lists instead of the big venues that he could easily do with a greatest hits tour.

Merck hopes for Gn`r summer tour??

Well, he`s not alone on that one!  :rofl:

I think GN'R will be in the limelight when they get back.  The only thing that's likely to prevent it is Axl's age or if they don't make many radio/tv freindly songs.  We already know that Blues and Maddy are MTV playable though, so who knows?

I hope they don't do an Ozzy, the name doesn't need it and Axl doesn't need it as he already has legions (possibly) of fans who know his talent.

I dont think his Age is gonna make any different. He is ONLY 43, and that is young to be such a Rock-legend!

Madagas, you brougt in very interesting item.
I guess The Same is the case with Axl...
Tommy says Axl is the most misinterpreted man he's ever met.

Tommy Stinson "because people kinda have this whole different thing on him - and its not really up to me to destroy the myth, but - But the one myth I can destroy is that - he is very much a collaborator"

Destroy the myth! We don't need it, do we? We are not in mythology time.

The thing is that the media in America and most of the world are way out of control. They have way more influence than they should and like Dylan says, it is damaging to the artist. Radio is complete shit now. That is what Merck is talking about. All these formats meant to please a "passive" music buying public. Modern Rock is an absolute atrocity to anything that is or was "rock". What you get is what Dylan was talking about-amateurs who try to come up with a sound to fit a format. That is why they will never be transcendent artists like the old Guns or Neil Young or whoever. If you truly listen to Guns with an objective mind, they don't fit ANY category on the radio today. Sometimes punk, sometimes metal, sometimes classic, sometimes even pop. As far as Bob's irrelevant comment. Axl is essentially irrelevant at this point and that should be taken as a good thing. It has given him the freedom to be a risk taker (assuming he releases the album). Nobody ever made a truly great album without taking risk. : ok:

Instead of starting a new topic, I'll mention this here.

the dirt hopes for a summer tour out of GNR as well.

Me too the dirt. (Who doesn'T ;D)

I totally agree with your point madagas, and I hope that's what Merck is talking about.

But, if Merck means "music fans" for "loyal fans of particular musician/band" and if he thinks musician/band should cater mostly for these fans' demand in place of general public's appreciation,  ?that's a bit worrying. Coz many of old school fans tend to love their fav bands for their old images and hate the changes. It's like switching the format from that of "passive" music buying public to that of specific fans. If so, it would be also damaging to the artist. I don't want GN'R forced to follow in Motley's footstep.  :-\
Good music should be heard and musicians should be able to express themselves freely.

First thank's Jarmo for the link, great speach from Merk.
Second, i've not bought an album or ticket's for the most bands that are on MTV or Radio, and i've my radio on when i go to work and i see MTV on a regular basis how many of you do the same? One of my favorite bands now is called Siddharta, is a band from slovenia and i've heard of it from a estonien friend. Other than that most of the music i listen "on my choice" has 10 to 20 years old. Actually i recently bought Harvest in CD.
Merk's  point, from what i get, is that in the old days a band would have to get a fan base, and they would get it by playing their ass of where ever they could, detemination and good music would then site the vibe, word to mouth would do their business, and then a record deal, some radio exposure, tv and so on, of couse a bit of luck never hurt and many geat musicians never made it. Anyways they would get the recod deal because they had a fan base people would talk and the record company considered that if they promoted they a lot more people would hear and the fan base would spead.
What you have now is complete fabricated artists that sell because of the money spent on promotion and explotion of the side Kick's - they are all beautifull, very well dressed, you nkow all about their life if you want, their cars, their houses, their toilet (ijust watch cribs), girl/boyfriend it's on their lavish life that teens dream on not the music...the music comes second to all thouse rubish, are you imagining Britney going from town to town singing in small venues with poor sound conditions and still have fans just to aprreciate the music she had to share? No. In ten years time will anybody remember "hit me one more time"? No. the process is inverted they shove this "artist's" down regardless of the quality of their music. By the way GNR's first video was played on MTV at dawn, it was Welcome to the Jungle, one time only as a personal favor to geffen CEO, and they continue to play it because they received a lot of request's from viwers. Would they heard of them if it was not on MTV? No, where they publicised? No why pepole wan year them?because a lot of people like good music, they are just not the ones who decided what is played any more.
Sorry for the long post, but i hate the music industry today.
Feb