Here Today... Gone To Hell!

from http://www.ultimateears.com/press_FOH_madness2003.htm  (http://www.ultimateears.com/press_FOH_madness2003.htm)

  :o

article dated March of '03 so it could be in reference to the '02 tour - which based on the equip they talk about is likely since i don't think it was around for the old GN'R days...

*the engineer's, Maxie William's bio http://prosoundweb.com/live/articles/nancy/maxie.shtml doesn't mention his work with Axl/GN'R but seems a bit dated since it seems the most current work they reference is his work with Stone Temple Pilots


another article (from Mix Magazine) on ultimate ears website...
mentions Axl in comments from Blake Suib, a top monitor engineer

from http://www.ultimateears.com/press_Mix_jan2002.htm Jan 02

Blake Suib has been using IEMs since the late '80s.... Most recently, he was the monitor supervisor and a mixer on Madonna's recent tour, worked with Axl Rose...,

"The biggest mistake a lot of engineers make is to give the artist in-ear monitors before the mix is completely dialed," he continues. "And what I mean is, take an artist like Madonna or Axl - you want to make sure you have the band in a rehearsal or soundcheck situation for a while before the artist ever comes in, so when you go and hand them their in-ear monitors and beltpack, you've got your mix 100 percent dialed, so they either say, 'This is great,' or 'This sucks.' You don't want to get in a situation where the first day they have to say, 'Turn up, turn down, do this, do that.' It gets to the point where, after they've gotten used to the initial great sound that you can give them, then they can go song by song and say, 'On this one, I want a little more drums. On this one, I want a little less,' and so on and so forth."

and comments on MSG:? "Probably the best-sounding arena in the country is Madison Square Garden, and it's for one reason only," he says. "The ceiling height is about half of most of the new arenas. There's that much less reverb time on your mix. It's very simple. A bad arena means you make a lot more changes...."

they say he worked with Axl Rose and this is dated Jan of '02 which would (obviously) be before the 02 tour...
wonder if he worked with Axl for the HOB, RIR3, or the Hard Rock Vegas gigs?

GN'R is listed in their clientele page
http://www.ultimateears.com/clientele.htm


in any event... whoever is doing Axl's in-ear mix for the next tour - i bet it won't be the guy who worked on the VMA performance? :hihi:

Yeah, Axl's ear-piece seems to have been his #1 problem during live-performances in recent times.  He's always fidgeting with it. 

Like the Rock in Rio show a few years back when he was holding up his mic-cord, signaling that something was wrong with it.  He was pissed.  If I had been that poor tech-guy, I would have run for my life.  :nervous:

Yeah, I don't really understand why Axl has so many problems. I know he's ultra-active on stage, but no one else seems to have the problems he does...

the monitor wasnt what had him huffing and puffing at the VMA's

no excuses the guy took off on an enormous wind sprint, u do that while singing and not properly warmed up anyone would be blown up *or out of breath*

it wasnt cause he was out of shape or anything like that, but anytime u are standing still and just take off at top speed when u stop u will *blowup* or become very winded till u catch your wind then everything is good to go from that point on

mix the adrenaline and nerves with that wind sprint and that threw axl off during WTTJ

he performed the first half of WTTJ and all of Madagascar and PC too well for it to be his ear monitor *that could cause him to sing off key but it wasnt his key it was his wind, watch it again and check axl out.

:o :o :o
You can see how many stuff is going on with the band when you have to put two boards, one mixed only for the singer! That's really awesome!

Thanks for the articles/tidbits, Eva. Always good to read technical stuff about the band and its sound.  : ok:

I bet it won't be that sound guy from R3 either that Axl angrily motioned to onstage.
Axl really had me scared and I was watching it months later at home on dvd.? :nervous:

Thanks Eva!

go to sound check axl and get it all dialed in before you even hit the stage then you dont need to fuck with that shit when your on stage....

I think the problem isn't that the sound isn't "dialed in" but that the damn ear piece keeps falling or almost falling out of his ear.  I am sure all of us have, at least once, used those ear-bud headphones, now imagine running around on stage with something like that.  It is bound to be uncomfortable.

can his thing on his waist be a remote 4 adjustin levels and add effect?
or is just his piece 4 hearin himself and the music?

yeas whats that that thing that he keeps using in the concerts? it looks like is an amplifier for his microphone or something.

and i think the main problem whith Axl onstage its that his a perfecionist , maybe every thing its ok but he is just angry that the sound isnt like he wants.

ultimate ears website talks about having ear impressions made for their custom personal monitors
... so i don't think it'd be like those earbuds... but we don't know if this is what Axl had (for example) at the VMAs


i think you've got the right idea...
he hears himself and the music through the in-ear monitor...
... as for the beltpack.. the thing we see Axl 'messing with' on his pants waistband..
here is one of those
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=186580

has volume and balance control... and "Mix Balance Dial which This offers dedicated control of left/right balances in stereo mode or the mix level of two transmitter inputs in MixMode"
though we dont' know which kind/type Axl used/uses...
seems adjusting the volue and mix somewhat is what these things allow the performer to do

if he went to souncheck and he could hear himself sing and they could set the soundboard and mixing equipment to the way he wants it .. then he wouldnt have to worry about that thing falling out of his ear...

the thing falling out of his ear has to do with the fit of the piece... not soundcheck ;)

no shit... but if he would go to a soundcheck with his band they could find the correct vocal/music mix that would allow axl to hear himself while singing live and he wouldnt ever have to to wear that stupid thing...

wise post

of course going to soundcheck is the right thing to do!  :D
your earlier post talked about the thing falling out of his ear... which i was just pointing out has/had nothing to do with going to soundcheck or not
its pretty interesting on ultimate ears website talking about how you have to get an mold made
its pretty involved

and as we know Axl DID go to soundcheck for the VMAs...
he also mentioned at the HOB that he went to soundcheck (laughing how it was a first for him  ;D )

(his using the in-ear monitor (that he did not use in the old days) might have something to do with that.... )

but that wouldn't/doesn't eliminate the purpose of the in-ear monitor which is so he can hear himself ;)

No, thats just really retarded and a waste of money and equipment. Axl must really lack confidence in his live voice to feel like he needs THAT much monitor power just so he can hear himself. There is zero need for any singer to need an in-ear system plus monitor wedges up the ass on every end of the stage. The whole purpose of the in-ear system is to eliminate the need for really loud monitors on stage that can damage your hearing (in-ear systems can be run at a much lower volume, giving you a cleaner mix that won't blow your ears out). Either Axl is way paranoid or he is really losing his hearing because that is a lot of onstage monitor volume for just a singer, especially for a rock god of perfection like Axl.  ::)

whatever Axl uses for his performances he does so that he can deliver his best possible performance
Axl always gives 100%....   his willingness to utilize technology (to better his performance is for us - the fans)
should be appreciated
his voice is HIS voice... the monitors do not alter his voice
how does wanting to utilize the best technology equal lack of self confidence
I'm sure as a professional performer he knows what he is doing with on stage monitors in place as well as the in-ear...
As a fan I wouldn't concern myself with his 'wasting money and equipment' - I'd rather just as soon be appreciative that the performer is doing all he can to deliver his best  : ok:

Overconfident one makes a mess of it and doesn't even aware of it.

It's such people who mess up the world.

pbebe, ?ou're really an awesome person! Thanks for posting here, I'm now a fan - really!  :beer:

I guess Axl knows how great his band is and he said how he was always trying to perform as good as the guys. So, if he needs some special mix just to him, I'm sure is because he had a lot of confidence in the band and tried to sing as best as he could hear them playing.  : ok:

I ran this article by my roommate, who is a professional sound engineer for on and off Broadway musicals (things that require much more complicated sound systems than a rock concert I might add) and his assessment of Axl's 'awesome' monitor setup was that a) it was overkill, b) Axl Rose probably has significant hearing loss if he needs that kind of firepower onstage to hear himself, c) hiring two monitor guys means they hired at least one that sucks, and d) Axl is probably just being an overdemanding pain in the ass. Having watched him work (and worked with him from time to time, I put myself through college as a sound guy), watched him put together some pretty complicated rigs for tours, and just listening to him talk about these things I have little reason to doubt his expertise in the feild of sound engineering.

The problem with using a monitor setup like that is diminishing returns. The more onstage volume you have to hear yourself the better to a point. After that point you start getting too much volume (your ability to hear onstage starts to diminish instead of get better), phase cancellation (lots of speaker throwing the same sound source into the air from different places with start causing phase weirdness), with the added annoyance of also carrying a pair of small monitors in your ears at all times.

Last night I listened to my soundboard of the 2002 Boston show and made some mental notes to support my opinion on this (PS: I also attended this show : ok:). For the duration of the show, but almost exclusively during really loud parts of the show Axl's pitch is inconsistent at best. He goes out of tune on the ends of his phrases a lot (mostly flat). This is almost surely the byproduct of there being way too much onstage volume. Anyone who has ever played live in a band can tell you that when the monitors are fucking cranked to 11 you mostly get white noise and your ears go to shit quickly. The other thing I noticed that absolutely tellls me that his monitor set up is fucked is during Knockin' on Heaven's Door. This song is easily the best, most consistent vocal performance by Axl of the whole show. He fucking kills it, and it's dead on the whole song.  Why? Because it's a quiet song. The band is playing much softer and there is more space to hear everything instead of just hearing a freight train of sound ripping your eardrums out.

I think he should just lose the in ears, they seem to give him nothing but trouble. And he should invest in better monitor guys, because hiring two is hiring one too many.

Thanks for posting that...  Thats basicly the way i was looking at tho not in those specific terms..  I think he should loose that damn thing too....

but its still a cool article EVA......

i get what your friend and you guys are saying

as far as the 2 guys... seems one was for the band and one for axl
is that unusual?

Generally you should be able to get aways with a front of house guy to handle what the crowd hears, and a monitor guy. The only way I could see needing two guys is if the band is so big that they would split the mixing duties equally (ie: guy one handles bass and drums; guy two handles guitars, keyboards and vocals. But you don't see it very often (if at all), and certainly not just one soundguy to only handle the lead vocalist.

Well, I remember to read somewhere that those soundboards were custom made and really expansive. Maybe they need two guys to put everything right before the real CD tour (with new songs), like a warm up tour.

>I ran this article by my roommate, who is a professional sound engineer for on and off Broadway musicals (things that require much more complicated sound systems than a rock concert I might add) and his assessment of Axl's 'awesome' monitor setup was that a) it was overkill, b) Axl Rose probably has significant hearing loss if he needs that kind of firepower onstage to hear himself, c) hiring two monitor guys means they hired at least one that sucks, and d) Axl is probably just being an overdemanding pain in the ass. Having watched him work (and worked with him from time to time, I put myself through college as a sound guy), watched him put together some pretty complicated rigs for tours, and just listening to him talk about these things I have little reason to doubt his expertise in the feild of sound engineering.>

Agreed. I think I read in one of the earlier posts that Axl had a 40ch? Midas board just for his moniters? Damn
If he ever tours again he better be able to fill the arenas, 'cause
a. those boards aren't cheap, especially just for the lead singer for moniters.
b. If they start playing clubs, good luck hauling one of those into a small club.
c. One of the uses of in ear moniters is to protect the musician's hearing. Some of the higher end systems have built in limiters to prevent hearing damage. You know when you listen to something for awhile at a certain volume, it's human nature to slowly keep cranking up the level, 'cause it sounds better, but does damage to your ears.  This is when that built in limiter kicks in to keep the volumes smoothed out.
I find it odd if he needs both an inear and wedges. He should hear his mix fine with his inears.

I made some caps with the Albany bootleg. This thing looks really big... and I see 3 guys there...  :o

[img=http://img212.exs.cx/img212/9312/capgnrsoundboard0yq.th.jpg] (http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=capgnrsoundboard0yq.jpg)

[img=http://img212.exs.cx/img212/7026/capgnrsoundboard026lu.th.jpg] (http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=capgnrsoundboard026lu.jpg)

[img=http://img212.exs.cx/img212/4492/capgnrsoundboard35wr.th.jpg] (http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=capgnrsoundboard35wr.jpg)

you, my fellow Gunner, are Hardcore!!!    \m/(-_-)\m/
 : ok:

next GN'R show I'm gonna take a little trip over to the sound/mixing boards and see if the guys wouldn't mind talking about what they got going on there ;)

Thanks!  : ok:
You can ask for some cd-r copys too.  ;D
Seems like those soundboards are connected with some Pro-Tools or something. I dunno, maybe it's only virtual presets for each song.

It seems like a fucking lot of equipment just to play the same old songs...... the same songs the old band played with out all that shit..

lol, just the newband sounds better :headbanger:

hahah!  lets NOT go there!   ;)

the new band DID have EIGHT players on stage including a 3rd guitar player and 2nd keyboard player who also did/does sound effects stuff... so could take a bit more to keep things 'in order'

nothing wrong with them taking advantage of technology - from reading solo interviews from Brain and Chris alone I can see that the new guys are really 'into' all that 'stuff'.  (not referencing specifically monitors obviously - just computer/technical stuff).

I just love learning about all that kind of techinical stuff myself.

Think I'll spend some time understanding about exactly what all this 'stuff' means - ProTools, mixing boards, in-ears, wedges... butt fills... (hehehe)  :peace:

Thanks 4 those articles btw :wave:

both bands had their own unique style tho, but whatever they do, gunsnroses sounds awesome? : ok:
yeah, i think such things is something that makes this even better and intresting,...
-the addition on the old songs is killer :headbanger:

I would imagine all the stage monitors are there for the band and not for "just axl" , moreover I would assume his "in ear" monitors would block out most of the stage sound and what he hears would come most directly from the in-ears .... I just think the way the article was worded made it look like all the gear/monitors the guy was talking about was "for axl" when in reality or rather IMHO I think they would be for the band as a whole.

I just could not see for the life of me why there would be a need for so m,any monitors for axl alone in lieu of the fact that he wears in ear monitors which would presumably block most of the stage sound.

Yeah, you can always listen to songs in mono and let the DTS 5.1 for the rest of the world.  :beer: