Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Thought this might be interesting ....

http://www.billboard.com/bb/biz/index.jsp

thanks, was this it?

These are EXCERPTS from the article you requested.

Axl Rose Signs To Sanctuary Publishing
January 24, 2005 -Lars Brandle, Cannes British-based independent Sanctuary Music Group has signed Axl Rose to a publishing deal. Until recently, Warner Chappell published the Guns N' Roses frontman's works.
To read the complete article, please Log In.

someone login and have the rest here? and what does this actually mean?
he gonna publish something, eh...

Chinese democracY, i hope  :beer:

Damn, this site shouldent be fucking bullshitting

Maybe this has something to do with the "legal issues" holding up the release of CD  :-\

I'm surprised that something as important as a publishing deal wasn't done before now.  Perhaps this is PART of the legal process that Axl and Co. were referring to.

it could be. Anyone registerd on that site? login and read the rest...
It could be the first move, that makes the ball rolling!

Hmmmm the 'future-works' is what is interesting!

Thanks!

http://www.musicweek.com/news/news_page.asp?newsid=5611

Sanctuary signs Rose
24 January 2005 - 10:40:00

Sanctuary Music Publishing has today signed the publishing for Guns 'N Roses legend Axl Rose.

The deal, which was confirmed by Sanctuary today, covers all catalogue on futures for the composer, including classics such as G'N'R's Sweet Child Of Mine.

It also follows a year after the company - a division of the 360 degree Sanctuary Music Group - announced its deal to sign UB40's catalogue at Midem 2004. It has also recently signed a deal with Kobalt Music to use its technologies for administration purposes.

A spokesperson for Sanctuary Group says the deal represents the latest step in building the SMP portfolio; publishing is a strategic priority for the group, he says.

I dont get it...some1 please enlighten me...

The deal, which was confirmed by Sanctuary today, covers all catalogue on futures for the composer, including classics such as G'N'R's Sweet Child Of Mine.

This confuses me.  catalogue on future releases I understand.  But Sweet Child?

I guess it just means that Axl have chooesed Sanctuary Record Groupe to release his upcoming matereal? ?Im not sure! But it looks like something intresting

So Sanctuary will now manage the band and release the material? Does this mean Axl isn't contracted to Geffen/Universal anymore? Also they say Axl Rose as aposed to a publishing deal for Guns N Roses, so many questions...

It means Sanctuary publishing will now be publishing the song books (ie: the physical printouts of the music and/or tabs) going forward. ?When they say "future releases", they mean Warner will no longer be publishing THEIR versions of the songbooks (for AFD, UYI I and II, Lies etc...or at least any music Axl wrote for those albums) and Sanctuary publishing will now be releasing THEIR versions of the songbooks. ?Now, whether those song books can contain material written by anyone OTHER than Axl (like, the rest of his former band mates) is an interesting question. ?They're NOT talking about "publishing" CD's.

Edit: I think it may also mean that Sanctuary Publishing would handle administering the "rights" to material, but I'm not sure about that.

Again, this deal has NOTHING to do with publishing CD's, albums, etc, etc.

Well, then i guess Guns N Roses should pop up on the band list on www.sanctuaryrecords.com pretty soon? ????

all catalogue= both old and new material?
futures= future releases?

thanks 4 the link steve-o, any possible, realistic reason 4 this now? this may be good news 4 us ?:D

edit: song books? they publishing sognbooks? (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/sauer/angry-smiley-055.gif)

I think this could be the best news we've heard in a long time towards getting momentum
on a release for the CD. The fact that Axl has agreed to this could be one of the big legal
obstacles that has been faced in the release of this new CD.
This publishing deal sounds like it's for the GnR back catalog, as well as any future recordings.
Even though bands, ie..GnR have record deals, it's the chief songwriter(s) who sign various publishing deals (often for big bucks if you're a well known commodity).
So, I assume that Sanctuary just wrote out a big check to Axl, but will get a big chunk
of the publishing royalties for the old Gnr material, future GnR material, and anything
that Axl might release as a solo artist, or if another group covers GnR music.
If anyone in the music business can confirm or clarify this more, that would be helpful!
 :peace:

This is weird and promising. Promising in the way that things are coming. They chose to publish their new music throughout Sanctuary, and they will only sign GNR when there is money to be made. So CD is definitly on its way.

What I find weird is that Axl signed also for the old material, meaning that he's the one who's holding the sole rights for them. And as far as I knew I thought they shared the rights (Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff etc.). So now I'm confused on what the hell is going on.

Hum... But, if Axl wasnt going to release any new stuff, would it make any sence from him to sign that deal?

Im not into this kind of stuff. But i will guess this has something to do with future stuff??

Damn, its the first official news we got in a long time! we deserve a ?:beer:

No, it wouldn't make any sense if he wasn't going to release anything. So things are coming definitely and Sanctuary trusts the material enough to pay a shitload of cash for the publishing rights.

Yup, songbooks... ?Do a quick google on Warner Chappell. ?That's mainly what they do. ?What I'm unsure of is whether it means they also administer the rights to the material (ie: If you want SCOM in your movie or TV show, they're the guys you have to contact) in addition to handling distribution of THOSE "use" royalties. ?I THINK that administration piece goes hand in hand with the publishing (ie: songboooks) rights.

was it songbooks?? :nervous:?
rerecordin of appetite? ???

this is actually nervebad :coffee:  :hihi: thanks 4 the update, cool if stuff is happenin now :beer:

K i dont really understand this...This has nothing to do with the music correct? or the legal battles correct?  So what does it have to do with?

fuckin songbooks...? ::) hope it's not just that? ;)

Songbook.. Humm, Booklet? In CD? haha i could be  :-*

It is not about songbooks. It is a deal with Sanctuary Music Publishing not Sanctuary Publishing.

Even if it would be just songbooks, I'm glad to hear that Axl's ties to Sanctuary seem to be growing stronger by minute. With Merck as a bigshot over there, Axl couldn't really ask for a better backing.

This is confusing.

It doesn't mention anything about songbooks on their website. I'm not sure of the difference between 'record' and 'music publishing' businesses, although apparently licensing refers to the use of songs in movies, radio play etc.

I can't see why anyone would make a big deal out of songbooks, but on the other hand why haven't Sanctuary mentioned the deal on the website?  This aside It appears that the company sees GNR as one of its key assets in its portfolio, and that can't be a bad thing! Maybe this is the 'activity' someone was talking about last week?, or the 'announcement' Mysteron mentioned that the management were thinking of announcing in December?

At least SOMETHING is happening!

i think this means that "things are happening"....obviously, something has happened to motivate axl to make this deal...that something possibly being the completion and release of CD in the near future.  if nothing had changed and nothing was going on, then axl would have no reason to do this...i think it is one of the many steps toward the release of CD...

I think this is the first time people in general, REALLY think that something are about to happend! Hope we are right!  :smoking:

That would be the optimistic interpretation ; I hope it's the right one... On the other hand, maybe Axl's previous publishing deal came to an end and he had to make a new one for his old material. But the news story does say "future" so it should be good !

Anyway, here's what a publishing company does ; it's basically an intermediary between the songwriter and the record company :


This was from : http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.htm

I'm in the Intellectual Property/Licensing industry, so maybe I can shed some light here to the naive.

This is HUGE, at least from a business and licensing perspective. And this is just not about publishing Music books. This is about Sancturay being the brokering agent for the copyrights to the GNR catalogue.

Basically, owning, or at least brokering the publishing rights to a music composition is maintaining licensing of the copyright of the work.

When you hear Rock N' Roll by Zep on the Caddy commercial, the licensing party (Cadillac or their ad agency) would license the Publishing rights to the song (i.e. the copyright of the song) and the Master Recording and Synchronization rights (the Zeppelin version and not some re-record). Sanctuary now maintains the rights to licensing the GNR catalogue. So when you hear WTTJ in the San Andreas adverts, Take 2/Rock Star Games had to license these rights. And that my friends, cost a BUNDLE. I've dealt w/ such licensing. Even a lesser known song could command $50K to $150 K for just the Publishing rights alone. Using a certain version to a song is a whole separate deal.

Obtaining a license to copyrighted material is of course obvious these days (hellooooo illegal downloading). If you are to hear a GNR song anywhere, ASCAP and BMI will broker licensing, even to play on a jukebox in your local bar (at least here in the States). When you don't have a license, then that's where lawsuits and cease & desist letters start coming into play.

When one source can maintain a catalogue to such a band/musician, just think of how much the rights holder(s) can make on licensing alone. Me, I can't count that high......

Obviously, I'm just DYING to know what Axl got for licensing WTTJ for San Andreas. Lucky bastard and SMART F**KING MOVE (I mean that in a good way). : ok:

actually, it doesn't really even matter what this deal is for...what matters is that axl has actually done something...and we all know that axl rarely does anything, uless it is for something huge...it appears this is the first of many deals/plans to be made in the near future...the ball is rolling...now the question becomes:  where does it stop?

This seems like it contradicts the Slash /Duff lawsuit over rights to the back catalog...unless that issue was settled and Rose now controls all of it. I know there is more to it than my simple reasoning however Rose "SEEMS" to be in control. Who the fuck knows but we do know he probably needed a new publisher for the new album so I too believe this is a much bigger deal than "songbooks". Come on Pilferk, we need more out of you than that. :peace:

Wow what's happening!
Finally some News?Jolly good?

covers all catalogue on futures for the composer, including classics such as G'N'R's Sweet Child Of Mine.

I wonder What effects it makes on Slash n Duff?s lawsuit?  Or this one's the egg not the chicken ???

And Does it mean GN'R finished with Geffen?

gnr is still with geffen...geffen is gnr's label.  when a band releases an album, that album has both a record label, and a publisher...axl has chosen sanctuary to be his publisher....geffen is still the record label...this is a huge deal...and, no - it's not just for songbooks, this has to do with the album and singles...axl appears to be taking the steps to release this muthafucka

Isn't Sanctuary Gn'R's new label ?
Couldn't it be that Axl was somehow made to make a publishing deal with Sanctuary to make up for the eternal delay of CD ?

Exactly...I haven't gotten optimistic about any of the premature rumors in the past, but this is clearly a sign that it's coming. If the album wasn't ready or still needed a lot of work, it would be pointless for either party to sign the deal (other than holding the rights to the lucrative back catalog).
I don't think this agreement would have taken place if  the artist, management, publisher and record company weren't on the same page for preparing for the release of CD.

Yes, they are, but they are not on theyr band list yet

no...sanctuary is not a label, they are a publisher....they are two different things...every album/song has a label and a publisher...axl has just chosen sanctuary to be the publisher of gnr's future material...geffen will still be the record label. 

It's a proper music publishing deal from what I understand

 : ok:

Ahh.. great
Nice to c u back Mysteron!

I also noticed that Sanctuary Group owns Helter Skelter, a major live agency. It could be part of a future effort from the band to move all their activities (publishing, management, live performances) into the same group. That way they wouldn't have to deal with Clear Channel anymore.
Just speculation on my part here......

Please, everyone commenting on my posts, please read ALL of the post....pretty please?

As I said, the deal is for the songbooks (ie: print licensing...whether they choose to use them or ship them out to someone else is up to them...but given they have their own actual publishing arm, I can't see why they'd do that) and, again, as I said I thought in the original post, the administration of various "use" rights.  My point was, it has nothing to do with GnR "changing labels".

Whoever quoted the snopes article (the board is super slow right now, can't get to the page) explained it much more eloquently than I did, but was essentially saying the same thing...thank you for that!  :peace: :beer:

It's an interesting bit of news- but I don't think it's time to start planning CD release parties. As others have said "Futures" most likely should be read as "future publishing of already existing GN'R music". Obviously it seems to set-up Sanctuary to handle any CD publishing that comes along too- but I think this is mostly about Sanctuary wanting to make a nice buck when our musician kids go to music store 20 years from now and want to buy the sheet music for Use Your Illusion II.

sounds good to me ?: ok:


thanks for your insight.

i was browsing Sanctuary Group's site to understand what their various divisions do - particularly the Publishing, Music Publishing, and also - a seperate division - Music Licensing...

Sanctuary Music Licencing
Sanctuary Music Licensing represents the world's largest independent music catalogue, with over 150,000 tracks.

Music is licensed for use worldwide in TV programmes, movies and commercials as well as to legitimate internet download services such as iTunes, Napster, Rhapsody and Sony Connect and telecoms services for use in ringtones and downloads.

So, if its a different division than Music Publishing ?- that leads me to believe there are differences between what these different divisoins handle - I would assume they don't duplicate efforts. ?So at what point does Publishing end and Licensing pick up?

From what's been said, it's much more than this. Selling the rights to "sheet music" for GnR is not news and not relevant. Even if it's not directly linked to the future CD release, it's more about who owns GnR music for licensing for possible commercials, movies or cover versions from other bands. But I'm hoping that this is a sign that the newest music GnR has written will be with us soon!
And it's easy for people to confuse Sanctuary records (the label) with Sanctuary group that manages the band. They're not related. The Universal umbrella still owns GnR and Geffen, I believe.

I thought I read somewhere in the article the words "future release" or "releases"?  I'm still un-sure of what this means for GN'R's future or newest album release?

god i hope it's so :beer:
they said legals issues is holding back it's release, and now that those issues seems out of the way...

WAKE UP!!! TIME... :headbanger:

all this talk (once again) has me very interested in understanding the music business and the different aspects etc...
well... i came across this
(http://www.bemuso.com/bigfiles/musicbiz.gif)

um... so who can decipher it?  ;D

Man some of you are so hardcore, it's great.  I like the chart Eva.  I think it's saying that all session guitarists/players will get credit and the money they deserve when CD hits stores in the next few months?  I always thought Axl would say something before March, something has to come of this.  I mean would it make headlines if it didn't mean something?  I don't think so.  Bring on some new stuff Axl, it's destined to happen now!

Well, this does look like a positive sign. I feel more positive hearing this than anything I heard from Tommy and Dizzy, but yet I can't help but be skeptical. It is possible than this deal wasn't signed because CD was finished but because their old deal had expired?

I find this particular line interesting : "including classics such as G'N'R's Sweet Child Of Mine."  To me, the wording definitely 
implies that sanctuary only has licensing rights to certain songs in GNR's back-catalog...There's a distinction for sure, else it would have made a point to mention the fact that it was the entire catalog...I feel this might be part of the settlement(Giving Axl publishing rights over certain tracks with which he was most involved creatively).  Just a guess..

Guys,

PUBLISHING ALSO MEANS: PUBLISHING MUSIC.

Meaning music is published, like books or song books.

Do a search on google for "music publishing"


geeeeeez why all the posts on that???

Man it's been so long and all we've gotten are bits and pieces of news.  The only stuff we've had are little sayings from TOmmy who obviously has no idea what the hell is going on.  Just bring on the album or give and update and some random website.  One of us is bound to de-code or find some secret message if Axl decides to fuck with us before releasing his baby.

doesn't look like any of you know what a Publishing deal is, but this ^ is close to it.

That reads in layman's terms :

Sanctuary have complete say in the use of ALL LYRICS - past and future - written solely by Axl Rose.
This includes having them in an album sleeve, on a T Shirt, in an Advert, songbooks ... etc.
Basically wherever anything written by Axl Rose is reprinted, Sanctuary get a cut, and so does [Axl].

Your record company may own the rights to your music [audio] but not to your lyrics - UNLESS you sell the right to them.
Which looks like has happened here with Axl and Sanctuary.

A Publishing deal is where artists get almost all their money from.

?::) wonder what the average iq here are, ?:P i thought it was songbooks 4 one ?:hihi:
then it set for release? ?:beer:

Actually... i'm not so sure anymore.....
Anyways check this.

http://www.universalmusicpublishing.com/artistswriters_newreleases.aspx

 v thanks 4 that link, no gnr at upcoming releases :help: maybe jarmo can provide the rest of that first article...

I don't think it's just the lyrics ; I think the music comes with it, as long as Axl as created it.

I was looking as the UYI booklet : Gn'R songs in the past were published by Guns n'Roses ASCAP, which means a collective contract for the old band. It would make sense for Axl to get an individual publishing deal now.

The thing is, he could only need it for his old material...

From Sp1at.com

The Story

Guns n Roses frontman and sole remaining original member Axl Rose has according to Sanctuary Music Group signed a new music publishing deal with Sanctuary Music Publishing. Previously Axl Rose's music was published by Warner Chappell.

The deal, which has been confirmed by Sanctuary includes Axl Rose's whole back catalogue (including classics such as Sweet Child O' Mine, November Rain and Patience) and any forthcoming releases from Axl or his band.

A spokesperson for Sanctuary Group said "the deal represents the latest step in building the Sanctuary Music Group portfolio; publishing is a strategic priority for the group".

Deke Arlon the President and CEO of Sanctuary Music Group is said to have played a major role in the new deal. Although Splat believes that Guns n Roses manager Merck Mercuriadis (CEO of Sanctuary Group) will have played an instrumental role in the deal.

This move is the first confirmed sign of Guns n Roses movement from the publicity shy Rose since he released a statement in March 2004 announcing that Guns wouldn't be performing at Rock in Rio 4 due to the departure of lead guitarist Buckethead.

Chinese Democracy, the band's long awaited album is due for release some time between April and Christmas depending on which report's you believe.

thats a funny comment  :hihi:


yay, hope 4 april, thanks for the link CR  :beer:

Well,


this is the first news report that has made me happy in a loooooong time....

here is a very good website regarding these issues - for those of you who are interested:
http://www.musicjournal.org/01publishingresource.html

includes info that helps understand about what Music Publishing is ?(and no it does not pertain to only lyrics - (songwriting is not just lyrics - songwriting includes the music also)

and also something that it helped me understand more is about the difference between the publishing company and the record company...

"The Rationale for Music Publishing

To appreciate the processes involved in music publishing, one must first understand that songs are, legally, treated as entirely separate and distinct from sound recordings....
... the song is the intellectual property of the songwriter(s), and not the intellectual property of the recording artist or record company.

Consequently, songs (as creative works) can be copyrighted separately from sound recordings. This notion of copyrighting songs is the fundamental concept that underpins the entire music publishing industry.

The actual term ?music publishing? is derived from the traditional business of printing sheet music. Before early soundcarriers were even invented in the last quarter of the nineteenth century... music publishers were already active in the mass production of sheet music for public consumption...

The generic expression ?music publishing? has continued through to the present day; although, in practice, printing sheet music is now only one (smaller) aspect of the work of the modern music publisher.

Songs differ from records in many ways of course. Unlike records, songs are not physical entities, unless they are made tangible in some form (such as print)...

This distinction between songs and records means that songwriters can enter into publishing deals in much the same way as recording artists can sign record deals. Music publishers then manage these song 'catalogues'. In doing so, they serve to protect the songs? copyright, and to exploit the works to the benefit of both the songwriter and the publisher. Record companies, meanwhile, undertake the risk management activity of recording, manufacturing, promoting and distributing sound recordings."

another link to check out: ?http://www.mpaonline.org.uk/faqs/what_is_pub.html

also what helped me understand what the relationship is between the songwriter, the music publisher, and the record company is this little tidbit
(in our case Axl, Sanctuary Music Publishing, and Geffen)

"A song can only be manufactured into a physical product (a CD, for example) by securing a ?mechanical licence?, and on payment of a mechanical royalty to the songwriter."(source is the first link i posted)

What is a mechanical license?
A mechanical license is the license issued by a publisher to a licensee, typically a record company, granting the licensee the right to record and release a specific compostion at an agreed-upon fee, per unit manufactured and distributed. (source is http://www.harryfox.com/public/infoFAQMechanicalLicensing.jsp


a SONG and a RECORDING are not the same thing

a song exists as soon as its composition is complete - lyrics and music - (intellectual property)
btw: ?yrics wtihout music is not a song
a recording is a physical manifestation of the song - (it becomes tangible property)
seems to me that publishers handle the biusiness of whatever is done with the song
such as whether it take the form of an audio recording or if it be printed sheet music or printed lyrics

btw... the links contain some very interesting stuff (to me anyways! hehe)
like according to the info i've read ?at least HALF of the money that is paid to the publisher by the recording label goes to the artist
versus only 18% of what the record company takes in going to the artist

Actually, Sanctuary does have a record label.  Tommy's solo CD was released by Sanctuary Records, and Axl was also encouraging them to release Buckethead's material until he decided Buckethead was just "using" GN'R to get promotion for his solo efforts.

Guns N' Roses is not signed to Sanctuary Records though, they still have a deal with Geffen.  They are managed by Sanctuary, though.

It's hard to tell exactly what this is all about. I just think we all should be cautious here though. Whether it's lyrics, music, sheet music or something more I would be more than willing to bet that the main thing Sanctuary was interested in was Axl's material with the original band. There will always be money to be made off of Guns' old material- so if Axl never releases another note of recorded music- I think Sanctuary will still walk away from this agreement very happy indeed. In other words, IMHO I think this much more about AFD and UYI than it is about CD.

Speaking more broadly though- it's always a good thing anytime Axl can dispose of one of the seemingly endless legal issues on his desk. Hopefully this is all part of a larger effort to get GN'R's house in order so that CD can come out this year. : ok:

Another article says the deal suggests that CD release "may well be imminent".

Check the whole history here: http://www.thenewguns.com/index.php?sid=41e06ee6ee8a2eab608254ef27bdc052

Thanks to RainX!  : ok:

Things are looking good at the moment... : ok:

I only get linked to the main page.... can you tell me what's in the article?

prolly the same as v  links in this thread  : ok:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=18265.0

Not really... This doesnt mean shit and it doesnt make Chinese Democracy that much closer to being released..  Everyone thinks this album is going to be a masterpiece but nobody knows shit about it.. not even the bass player or the keyboard player....

Im crossing my fingers that this is finally the year... this news gives me hope

so it's not only song books then. GREAT ::) : ok:

thanks for the updates on music publishing Eva, brilliant!

Interesting you say that, cuz helter skelter were the first people (sponsors?) for the aborted UK tour in 2001 (I have a big fat poster advertising it on my wall!)
Weird that after that, and doug goldsteins apology, they went to clear channel for the 02 tour. and now it looks like they may go back to helter skelter!?!?!!!!

bob

Yeah thanks Eva. I'll read them over to digest later. : ok:



The Chicken or the egg,  Maybe the Greatest Hits comes first.
Axl sued Geffen to stop the GH release. Then The management stated Axl worried about that it would delay the release of CD.
"founding member W. Axl Rose is concerned that not only will their audience be misled into believing that the planned compilation is an authorized release, but that it will hinder the release of the band's long awaited new studio album CHINESE DEMOCRACY."
It could be GH that lit the fuse of this karma.

It's just a thought. But it seems to me The Die is cast.

Or not YET, Maybe? Heaven knows.
Morrissey said it took him long time to find the proper label. After long consideration, he chose Sanctuary for their high supportiveness to music n musicians among others.

Yep, I've got the same poster and it actually says Clear Channel and Helter Skelter.
But I've just checked Sanctuary Group's website and it seems that Helter Skelter is only active outside America, so this is not going to work....

They could still work with CC but not directly...

Sure the 2002 tour didn't bring that much money in, but once the cd comes out and it's a hit, they'll sell many tickets and CC executives can definitely apologize... Money is above all for them.

The thing is that we'll probably never find out the truth about what happened between CC and the GNR camp, but from what I know, GNR got a bit screwed by CC...

well, im pretty sure bouth parts have been doing all they can do to make up for that failure! Im sure CC have seen the album sales of GH and are willing to suport GNR agaim

what do you know? never heard so much about this... they not welcome back to cc?

CC screwed GNR back in 2002.

I'm not sure if they have the same opinion after the release of GH. It sold too much...

Let's see if CD will have the same success...

Guns N' Roses mainman Axl Rose has signed a new publishing deal with one of the fastest growing music groups, according to Soundgenerator.
 
 

In recent years, Sanctuary Music Group have followed an aggressive strategy of signing established acts to its catalogue to gain market share and publishing rights. Axl Rose follows a string of high-profile artists including Lou Reed, Fun Loving Criminals, UB40, the New York Dolls and Morrissey onto Sanctuary's roster.

The deal, confirmed by the label yesterday (January 24), will include all Guns N' Roses back catalogue and new material. A spokesperson for Sanctuary Group told Music Week the deal represents the latest step in building the Sanctuary Music Publishing portfolio, adding 'publishing is a strategic priority for the group.'


Maybe been posted before, but in case

here's another news article on it from the press/radio industry newsletter CMU in the UK:

AXL ROSE SIGNS TO SANCTUARY PUBLISHING
Sanctuary Music Publishing have signed up Axl Rose in a deal which will see
the music group manage the G'n'R man's whole songwriting catalogue,
including his forthcoming new G'n'R album 'Chinese Democracy', now due for a
2089 release. (Actually, G'n'R bassist Tommy Stinson told US newspaper
Pioneer Press last week the long long long awaited new G'n'R album is almost
done - believe it when we see it).

//
They always take a sarcastic slant, ilove it! lol

nice, thanks i remember they "pulled the plug" we'll have it soon is my guess (not in axl-soon)  : ok:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the publishing company is the ones handling the business side of dealing with the songs.

For example, if a magazine wants to print the lyrics to a GN'R song, they'd need to get permission from the publishing company.

If you check your cd booklets, they usually say Published by XXXXX ASCAP or something. Sometimes the band members have individual pulishing companies, and in the case of old GN'R they had Guns N' Roses Music ASCAP.

If I remember correctly, Guns N' Roses Music ASCAP had a deal with Warner/Chappell.



/jarmo

Now what I'd like to know is about the actual manufacturing process of a record, of a compact disc manufacturing plant (The plant that DOES the actual, physical, that-you-can-hold-in-your-hands albums...). And what level of PRIVACY do these have.. can an album be done in total secrecy?

It's now officialy on Sanctuary's website!

www.sanctuarygroup.com (http://www.sanctuarygroup.com)

the fact that sanctuary is officially the publisher of "dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music" implies that those tracks are completed...a track that is not complete or in existance cannot be protected/published...

also, the fact that axl is making a deal to publish/protect these new tracks STRONGLY implies that these tracks will be released an available to the public...this is looking very good...it looks like this a huge step toward the release

I totally agree...for the first time in awhile, some "official" good news from the GnR camp.
Although it says nothing about an imminent CD release, it has to be in the near future.
And "dozens of new songs" is stated from Sanctuary themselves, not from an unreliable source. That is VERY exciting.

I totally agree. Now all we have to do is hurry up and wait some more. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnit.... shit. At least we know something is happening and axl didn't die or something.

:rant: The Die is cast! Cross the Rubicon! Dam that river, Yay!?!!?!!?!!? :rant:

 :D I like the bit they say "dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music."
Perhaps they are now submitting them to Universal Music, or else they have already handed them in. 8)
Am I making too too a fuss?

Dozen = 12

Dozens = 24 +

 : ok:

Yeah, dozens means more than 24..... It could mean 25 or 72.  : ok:


Now, without getting too excited, the timing of this is interesting. Why sign a new deal now?

Oh, and for all the people who bitch about never getting any news about what's going on with the album. Read the Sanctuary web site. It's there:

The deal covers both future material and catalogue. Rose's contribution to such hits as "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain" are covered under the deal, as are dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music.



/jarmo

wow  :o so much? and these are finished products? best news in months :beer:

I checked www.ASCAP.com this morning, seeing if any new songs were listed.
Nothing yet, but eventually...that information should become public knowledge
on their website I would guess.

awesome  : ok:

question is... when is Blabbermouth gonna pick this up? :hihi:

ahh! This really is GREAT! The laste words in that article says it all!

yeah...blabbermouth already has it on their site:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=31996

and they're not the only ones...this story has already been posted on a bunch of other music sites...this is no small deal

I don?t know exactly what does this mean... but I feel it's happening at last !!!!
And I'm fucking excited !!!!!!!!!

some dude\admin from a rumourboard or something told about this last week...
think it said: expect update next week or something... rememer it?

anyway, good karma 4 him ?: ok:

WOW.. this is wonderful news.. I hope we will get alot of new fresh news the upcoming weeks  :beer:  :peace:

Yeah! But we atleast have something to hang our positive minds on now!
I have a great feeling for February!  :-*  :-*  :-*

It's indeed great news! Can we expect a release date in February? Maybe it will be released in April/May.  : ok:

Sanctuary shares tumble as it surprises with ?13.5m losses
By Dan Sabbagh and Adam Sherwin
 
 
 
 
 
SANCTUARY Music Group, the independent record label, yesterday revealed unexpected losses of ?13.5 million just two days before it was due to release its annual results.

The admission, which appears to have followed a row between the company and its auditor, Baker Tilly, knocked 15 per cent off the share price and will wipe out most of the group?s profits for this year.

It also overshadowed the group?s announcement that it had acquired the publishing rights to Guns N? Roses? back catalogue in a deal believed to be worth ?10 million. Guns N? Roses will join Morrissey, Beyonc? and Coldplay as clients of Sanctuary.

However, the sudden shortfall emerged from problems elsewhere in the company. The bulk stemmed from an ?11.4 million ?previously unanticipated provision? which was agreed upon ?in discussion with the group?s auditors?, according to a statement released yesterday. The provision relates to the fact that the company expects to receive less money from Cloud 9, a TV production business that it used to own.

Cloud 9 was sold to its founder, former scriptwriter Raymond Thompson, in 2003 for ?28.5 million in loan notes. However, Cloud 9 has struggled since the sale, and the recent restructuring has meant that Sanctuary is unlikely to get back all of its loan.

As well as the write-off, Sanctuary?s books arm said that it would record a loss of ?2.1 million in the year to September 2004, following a restructuring required by poor trading. The unit, which publishes authors such as Neil Young and John Motson, had been expected to break even.

Richard Hitchcock, an analyst at Numis Securities, said: ?The good news is that these items are non-core to the rest of the group. But it will hit investor confidence, given that this announcement has come so late in the day.?

Numis said that last year?s losses in books would reduce pre-tax profits for last year to about ?16 million. For this year, earnings predictions fell from ?20 million to ?6.6 million, including the write-down.

Sanctuary said that it did expect to generate about ?50 million from exploiting Guns N? Roses hits through film soundtracks, cover versions and their use in advertisements.

Deke Arlon, Sanctuary?s head of publishing, said: ?After The Beatles and Queen there doesn?t come much bigger in the rock canon than Guns N? Roses. We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history.?

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

Sanctuary has also secured the rights to Chinese Democracy, the new Guns N? Roses album and all future Rose material. However, the album has no release date 12 years after work began. The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producers.
 
 
The above information was taken from the thetimesonline.co.uk any thoughts?

And here we are in 2009!

shit! they specifically stated that sanctuary has "secured the rights to Chinese Democracy"...that implies that the album is done - a finished product...how can they secure rights to something that doesn't exist? looks like CD is in the bag and ready to go

also...they stated that axl and his lawyers have been negotiating this for months...tommy stated that "legal issues" were one of the only things holding CD back...maybe this is what axl has been waiting for - a publishing deal...hopefully this was the only thing holding up the release and everything will begin to move forward now

This could also meaan that since Sanctuary are having some financial issues, this could help push out CD faster since that would definately be a quick money-maker.

That quote is probably based on what Sanctuary said:

The deal covers both future material and catalogue. Rose's contribution to such hits as "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain" are covered under the deal, as are dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music.




/jarmo

Damnit this is the best news I've heard so far this year. Dozens recently recorded. Whoot!!

things just Look more and more promesing!! ?: ok:
Sanctuary has also secured the rights to Chinese Democracy, the new Guns N? Roses album and all future Rose material

Damn great!

Deke Arlon, Sanctuary?s head of publishing, said: ?After The Beatles and Queen there doesn?t come much bigger in the rock canon than Guns N? Roses. We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history.?

I like this part of the article  : ok:

 
 

something tells me that since CD is now in sanctuary's hands, they will want to move forward and release the new material...they didn't buy the rights to it so it could sit around and collect dust...they paid a ton of money for those new songs, and they will want to profit from them...think about it...sanctuary has just paid a crap load of cash for the new songs - do you think they're going to just sit around and do nothing? HELL NO!

This must mean something. It has to.

Im pretty sure that they wouldn't shelled out money if they didn't have some kind of legal guarantee that CD was ready to go and was going to be released. ?It would make pretty shitty business sense.

That sounds right to me. I bet CD had a big deal to do with this. They needed to make a bold move to make up for losses.... They say it's been in the works for a long while. Axl was probably able to negotiate his marketing/creative vision and obviously felt comfortable with this decision. I feel bad for talking shit if this pans the way it looks. I was bitching negative over well, pretty much speculation and bullshit rumors. But this announcment is a fact and finally a positive one that puts things in perspective for me.

I don't think Sanctuary has final say on album release, but like people have said I'm sure they will push the label for it to happen "sooner than later"... ha ha. Seriously thought.

Ironic that a figure tossed around was $13.5 million that they had paid Axl to make Chinese Democracy.

wow.

This is some of the best GNR news I''ve heard since the Greatest Hits were announced. It doesnt tell me much about Chinese democracy aside from the fact that "dozens" of tracks are finished which is GREAT .. but what it does tell me is that in a very short amount of time we are gunna be bombarded with classic gnr songs in film and TV .. tv commercials , shows and the movies!!!  It was always rare to hear gnr songs in films but this deal seems to really bang the door wide open.

Think of all the recent GTA:SA comercials on tv playing WTTJ ... then picture the very next TV ad for whatever product playing SCOM and the next TV ad is playing Paradise City!  :o

With this deal it could very well be a reality!

They must plan to really get ALOT of songs in ALOT of shows and films to generate the kind of money they hope to generate from licensing.  : ok:

Atleast we can be CERTAIN this is great news for fans of the old material and hopefully also any new material that surfaces.

Yay!  :peace:

Lets cross our fingers that doesn't happen.

This was my first thought when I saw the deal was made.
The cashing in on the back catalog through film and other artists
covering their music. The only downfall is that GnR's music could become overcommercialized, and I hope the band doesn't lose credibility for it.


This had to be one of the major hurdles holding up the release.
While I'm sure Sanctuary group already has ideas on how to profit off of
the back catalog, they have to be chomping at the bit to get GnR back
into the public eye, release Chinese Democracy and to get
"the GnR brand" back into a positive light with the general music-buying
public.
 :beer:

 

Well I still see nothing about future release DATES....just future material.  I guess that's a good thing, but come on at least throw a month where they think things will be jump started!  Errrrrr, just anxiously awaiting.  Just think people that you used to talk to will call you up out of no where,  "Man you were right, Chinese Democracy really does rock harder than anything else ever, Holy SHit!!"

i hope Axl still has some say over what other artists can use GNR's music, what movies it will be in etc.

i would be disapointed if i started to hear things like the chorus taken out of a GNR song for use by Lil John like that ozzy song he used recently

i hope Axl still has some say over what other artists can use GNR's music, what movies it will be in etc.

i would be disapointed if i started to hear things like the chorus taken out of a GNR song for use by Lil John like that ozzy song he used recently

also I wonder how this will effect the court case with Slash and Duff trying to get control of GNR's music up until the point that Axl "left the partnership" or whatever

This has been a big concern of mine for a while now as well.? However, the way I see it, over-comercialization can only lead to a larger, modern day fan following of GN'R.? The songs thus far heard on Chinese Democracy as well as the vast majority of previous Guns tracks are too indepth to be used in your average car commercial.? Playing WTTJ or PC at a football game or in a video game commerical is one thing, I think one would be hardpressed to find a commerical that could use November Rain, Estranged, Rocket Queen, Don't Cry and arguably even SCOM.? ?I could be wrong, but Greatest Hits has had an impact on the youth of America and Guns is definitely gaining some of the attention it lost after the Illusion tours.? The music industry itself will make a huge ordeal (rightfully so) over Chinese Democracy and draw the attention of millions to this album.? While the MTV masses may not get or be drawn to CD, the types of people who would compose the fanbase we are all part of would be attracted.? When it comes down to it, I don't care how someone is brought to Guns N' Roses, all I ask is that they remain a true fan and don't attach themselves to Guns for the desire of being trendy of "cool".? Guns N' Roses have never been about an image, GN'R has always been about serious, real fuckin' rock n' roll.? Anyone who can realize this is welcome in my book.? :yes:? :smoking:

-- Guns N RockMusic

I'm not afraid that Sanctuary will sell GNR songs to anyone cause of this little phrase that said:

Other rivals have offered much more money but Rose was pleased with the terms Sanctuary offered. (or something like that)


Which basically means that Axl will have an opinion on where the songs will be licensed to.

And I believe that this deal was made cause of the lawsuit Slash and Duff made against Axl back in August (don't remember the exact month) cause it says that Sanctuary will make 50 million pounds out of this deal. Imagine how much Axl, Slash and Duff will make. Now they can accuse him of nothing.

If it doesn't have anything to do with that lawsuit, then we're really close to the release of the album...

Each day that passes is one more day towards the release of Chinese Democracy.

So Axl may have finally started the littlle snow flake that creates the big avalanche! ?:hihi:

Nevertheless, this is big news about GNR worth responding to. I certainly hope the new songs can matchup to the sucesses of their predecessors and are worth sharing the GNR name. Whatever it does, I hope it clears away the lawyers once and for all and Axl can finally put out some music. I will judge Axl the same way everyone with a reasonable objective and subjective mind can judge the guy. If its great, I'll say so and back it up - if it sucks, I'll say so to that and back it up.
So I'll just say this is good news.
Good Nite
 :beer:
MNR

ummmm. ok. Why is this worth saying? Were you planning on doing otherwise?

me2? : ok: or this
who said the general public didn't care and gnr was fadin?
it's so cool the they actually have dozens of new songs liceneced just waiting to be published? :beer:

---

:wave: thanks 2 the new posters 4 providing the links?

FINALLY, some great news. I'm a little surprised about the timing however - was this timed to co-incide with Sanctuary's annual results or Axl's plans? Cynics could argue this was just a clever PR exercise.

Also I'm surprised there wasn't more info about the band...the fact that the headline was 'Axl Rose Signs to Sanctuary Publishing' and the article mentions 'Roses Contribution to such hits' and 'new tracks Rose has recently (??) recorded' really puts the spotlight on Axl, and I thought this was meant to be a band effort.

Haven't other members signed to Sanctuary Publishing yet?

guess they don't have the samle legal rights to the material as axl has, so formally seen it's axl's
tho practicly it's a band effort,  ;)

Check out sp1at.com news section. It appears contact has been made with Merk who said the publishing deal essentially means that Sanctuary can finally set a release date for Chinese Democracy.  He said  :beer:once the plans have been finalized the fans would be notified regarding an anouncement regarding CD!!!

yeah! This is great,(if its true then) But im very positive about this! Im gonne get really drunk today! And tell everyone whats happening! LOL

 :peace:    :-*     :beer:   

"The deal covers both future material and catalogue. Rose's contribution to such hits as "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain" are covered under the deal, as are dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music."

I think this bit read:
1)Rose's contribution to dozens of new tracks, which Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music, are covered under the deal.
2)Also Rose's contribution to such hits as "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain" are covered under the deal

+bonus
3)what's more, Rose's contribution to dozens of old tracks, which Rose has newly recorded with current members.  : ok:

that was exactly my idea too  :D

I'm amazed by the whole facts that coming over and over. I will party today and have a nice evening.  :peace:

the waves already set in motion :headbanger:

As reported yesterday, Axl Rose, after months of negotiations, has signed a music publishing deal with Sanctuary Group. But what does this mean for Guns n'roses?

Splat spoke to Merck Mercuriadis, CEO of Sanctuary and manager of Axl Rose, who told us that the deal essentially means that Sanctuary can finally set about planning the release of the forthcoming Guns n'roses album, Chinese Democracy. Whether this means we will see the first single from Chinese Democracy tied to a soundtrack remains to be seen. But it is clear now that Guns n'roses have at last entered the final phase with regards to their forthcoming album, and that can only mean good news for the fans.

Mercuriadis also told Splat that once the plans had been finalised, they would then issue an release announcement for the new album.
 


In summary: Good FUCKIN' News

great 8)

Amen. : ok:

-F

great news
we were speculating about what the publishing deal meant...
very nice to have this comment from Merck

awesome
 : ok:

I'm taking this news with alot of hope and excitement. I hope it's getting close. :yes: : ok:

 :beer:

Things are looking up, although the only thing that bothers me is the Sanctuary Group web site.
It's not the most impressive looking web site in the world. If this is the web site:
http://www.sanctuaryrecordsgroup.co.uk/

It needs some work  ;) - The non html version screws up for starters  ???

sorry guys, I?m not familiar with this SP1AT thing... what is it? how realible this is?

OK guys and girls, this is truly great news. But before we all start celebrating, lets just remember a few things:

1. A phase in the whole GNR lifecycle can be one helluva long time  :nervous:
2. Still no news on the guitarist situation  ???
3. Apparently Tommy said the album isn't done (i.e. still missing some vocal parts)  :confused:

So, it ain't over until the fat lady sings and I'm gonna remain cautiously happy until one of the band members speaks up or there is a formal announcement.

In the meantime, any ideas what movies a single could be tied to?

WATCH OUT!
GOTCHA ? :confused:
I suppose the content of the indirect speech in the info to be true but otherwise??
Where?s our Obi-Wan, no, Mysteron?  ???

then again it's on their news section, it should be OK. :yes:
Whatever. I believe everything is now starting to surface with a bang as rapid as a rabbit.

Like the tides out on the ocean
damn it all, Yay! :headbanger:

Ive never heard of splat before? how reliable are they?and how do we know there just not making up this interview?

If I had a nickel for everytime there was a hint of good news.....

thank you very much for posting that  :D

the deal was worth 10 million...
they expect to generate 50 million...  :beer:

and hm... the "contributions" part really does answer a lot of questions I was pondering
thanks for all your input and comments
 : ok:

My pleasure in posting the article guys and girls i thought you would find it interesting. I actually came across the article in the times newspaper itself (there was also a picture of Axl too!) i tried to scan it but it didnt come out that clear. So then i tried their website and managed to find it there.  : ok:

Well it just good news we are getting so CLOSE!!!

Their official website is this :
www.sanctuarygroup.com (http://www.sanctuarygroup.com)

Did hell just freeze over? Somebody wanna check?WHAT it did!!! Then without further delay here?s The four horsemen of the apocalypse and opening act The NEW Guns N? Fuckin? Roses! Chinese Democracy coming soon to a Doomsday near you.

Seriously though I hope it happens soon! (the album not the whole doomsday thing)

1. Yep. Why final? They enter on a new phase.
Or :idea: maybe they're changing the name after a while, like The Yardbirds on their final phase? This explains that  "tracks Rose has recorded?."bit.  hmm...:headscratch:
2. No. But Somehow I?m not so worried anymore. Let?s wait and see.
3. as I said many times, you can?t really tell which tense that bit was in. He might be talking about the past.

What about www.sanctuaryrecords.com ? GNR are not on they`re bandlist, but Tommy Stinson is

I've been one of the resident cynics on this board, but I have to admit that this all sounds very encouraging. Anybody know of any "big" movies due in '05? Star Wars III is the only one I can think of.

Batman Begins and War of the Worlds

Here's a list I compiled for films that we are gonna look into at Sp1at. Bare in mind that except for Sin City and Batman Begins this is based on pure speculation (and even those two are based on very weak rumours!)

War of the Worlds - Biggest budgeted film ever - expect a trailer at the Superbowl
Sin City - rumoured to be involved - no firm details on this though.
Fever Pitch - remake of the British film based on a Nick Hornby book of the same name - the US Fever Pitch is about the Red Sox winning the World Series - which until last year was about as likley as GnR releasing Chinese Democracy!
Madagascar - Too obvious?
The Longest Yard - Instrumental version of Paradise City on the trailer. Adam Sandler (Big Daddy-SCOM) has connections with GnR in past.
Batman Begins - Just seems sort of GnR-like! Rumoured to be involved already - no details on this.
Click - Another Adam Sandler film!
The Kid & I - a film Schwarzenegger in (previous GnR connections - T2/YCBM & End of Days/Oh My God)

Yeah! we thats a nice movie to run a GNR track on!
Damn ILChief, u got 0 posts! Hows that! Huh!!  :hihi:

Gigger, 'Madagascar' is a kids animated movie ;)

I know but I had to mention it!

The Kid & I might be kid's film as well, I can't remember! Only mentioned that one cos Arnie is involved!

Don't get excited until you hear something from Axl himself.  He's one of the very few involved who has not given release dates over the years which is why I've not made the mistake of getting my hopes up.  Until he speaks I remain skeptical.

?h GN'R HAS to throw a new track in Sin City's direction...

I don't know if they would fit with the new Batman movie, it's supposed to be more "darker" and "serious", different from a Batman movie with a Prince soundtrack... but I guess something might fit well in the credits.

Here's the trailer for "Sin City"...there is a nice song playing in the background...is it GNR...probably not...could it be?  Yes...hell, we have NO idea as to what a lot of the new shit sounds like.  Anyway, enjoy...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/sin_city.html

that's hilarious.. can i use it?  :rofl:

This is not really a problem. That Batman Forever shit had an amazing U2 song "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me" and that Seal's "Kiss From A Rose" (I dunno if this is the right title).

This is the most promising thing I have read in a LONG time.  Maybe now SOON is the word!  ;D

That's what I mean... The entire first Batman soundtrack was done by Prince, and the Batman Forever soundtrack had popular artists and pop songs on the soundtrack.  Batman Begin's has a different vibe from both Burton's and Schumacher's Batman movies.  It's less "cartoony" - no yellow batman logo on the front of the suit, etc.  It doesn't seem like they're going to throw together an "American Pie" soundtrack for the new Batman.

yeah that song did remind me of something, but i can't be.....  :o :P

i dont know if soon is the word. But it will be out, we`ll start on the american leg of the tour, and see how it goes from there...

Well... Im damn sure u did know soon wasnt the word! And how did it go?

http://www.sp1at.com/1000000076.html
? ? If you read this article.? It sounds like Sanctuary will make 50 Mill from Gun's Past work in Movie Soundtracks.? It did not paint a good picture of C.D.

No...Tommy's solo CD was released on Sanctuary's record label,
completely different from GnR's label (universal/geffen).

Sanctuary music group is GnR's management and now holds
the rights to their publishing.

The only thing they mention is the amount of time, money and
various producers that have been used to make the record.
This isn't anything we didn't already know.

the comments are in reference to the deal that includes dozens of newly recorded tracks also. ;)

Thanks for clearing that up  : ok:

Didn't Tommy cancel his European Spring tour as well?  Most optimistic I've been in a year...depends on how reliable the quote from Merck is though..let's hope this "final phase" doesn't refer to any more recording or mastering, and strictly relates to art, promotion and a date

Im crossing my fingers that this is finnaly it : ok:

Oh man. I really really hope this is it.  :beer:

Interesting news.

Meditate on this I will [sits back down to play more Resident Evil 4].

i think the publishing deal was the last thing holding up the album.

werent there all sorts of legal issues?

maybe the old band members were still tied somehow to the old publishing deal and couldve somehow profit off Chinese Democracy, so maybe axl waited to the old deal expired so he could sign a brand new one.


I think this is very exciting and may just be it!

Chinese Democracy is going to take California, Arizona, Illinois, Florida, New York........yeehawww.

Axl for president :beer:

Oh man! Maybe the wait is allmost over

How come just Splat or whatever is reporting this news?  They seem to have mostly GN'R stuff on the site.  Is it run by GN'R fans from different forums, or is it actually official?

I'd like to know how the people on that site could have access to something like a straight quote from Merck regarding GNR's status, while we've been hounding for YEARS

The quote is from Merck's e-mail to the people who run that site.

FYI new article on Sanctuary. http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=industryNews&storyID=7451347 in connection with the S+D suit? Eva, What do you think?

OMG!  GNRonline has been updated  :o

it has???

Stop that...  :rant:

OK, this is truly great news. But before we all start celebrating, lets just remember a few things:

1. A phase in the whole GNR lifecycle can be one helluva long time  :nervous:
2. Still no news on the guitarist situation  ???
3. Apparently Tommy said the album isn't done (i.e. still missing some vocal parts)  :confused:

So, it ain't over until the fat lady sings and I'm gonna remain cautiously happy until one of the band members speaks up or there is a formal announcement.

In the meantime, any ideas what movies a single could be tied to?

Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet....  :rofl:

It's just the old rumourboard that changed its name and decided to diversify the bands they talk about. Therefore it's in no way official....

then it's bullshit.

A bunch of losers running a loser site for loser pathetic gullible losers like us.

I still can't believe the fucking album is not finished.

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED WITH THE MASTERING???? wasn't that supposed to be finished late last year ?

I assume the only reason it names Rose specifically is that songwriters sign to publishing deals and not recording artists, so it would be axl signing for HIS songwriting contributions would be my guess

That was supposed for the November rumor release date :hihi:
Anyway I found out another movie that will be released on Summer, Fantastic Four.
Check comingsoon.net for future movies.

I think A Perfect Circle has a song on that movie.  So, i guess there wont be any Guns N Roses song!

I think you might be right about that.

Maybe Guns N' Roses Music ASCAP was owned by five guys and now Axl's share of that is handled by Sanctuary.




/jarmo

yeh, that certainly sounds about right :-)

I think I replied to this post yesterday. ???

You're right, I've been having problems posting recently, sometimes it takes me several attempts to actually post my message. Occasionally I give up and save the message for later, not having realised the original post was actually successful which is my explanation for this!

Sorry  : ok:

I hope it will works for Axl. He seems to put his life into this record.

I remember Axl sayin (I think it was at the VMA's 2002 to Kurt Loader) that he's the only one writing lyrics.

So, it makes sense...

where's mysteron disappeared to ?

He's probably busy playing Halo 2.

The deal will allow Sanctuary to move forward. That's obvious

But I don't think the Guns n'roses partnership (e.g. Slash and Duff) are going to be happy about Sanctuary's control over the older tracks

They (Sanctuary) do list GN?R as a whole on their artist roster...

http://www.sanctuarygroup.com/index.php?page=1&l1=6&l2=5&l3=0&getArticleId=391

That's always been there

Yoo Hoo, Obi-Wan! :o That's my first thought when I read the news about the deal.  Sure enough, so?
I'm wondering which came first. ::) I guess that's a sorta business secret tho.

could it be that the music on the original old material is the oldmembers share also...
and that axl can do this but only copyright it to gnr with music played by others that slash and co?

Hey, mate. Forget the bonus not?

hm... lots of thoughts   EDITED:  not necessarily in connection with the lawsuit no.  that's not what i meant ppbbe :)

the S&D suit addresses who has rights to grant permission for licensing.? If Axl and Slash and Duff are the only ones who have to give permission - then i suppose the other songwriters only involvement is their needing to be compensated by payment of royalties.? It is my understanding that this (payment of royalties) is not covered under this deal.

Seems Sancturary would represent only Axl on any given licensing/publsihign issue...
perhaps only after the approaching party were to obtain licensing permission from the other parties who hold thoe rights -? then they could finalize the deal with Sanctuary publishing to best meet Sanctuary and Axl's terms?

or perhaps if sanctuary were to actively pursue deals, they would set 'em up as far as they could - set forth the terms of their proposition and then it would be up to the propositioned party to obtain the remaining publishing/licensing permission from the other parties who hold rights in order to finalize the deal?

get what i'm saying?

haha!? i suppose i actually have answered the questions I was pondering with only more questions to ponder!? ;D

the fact that they reference 'contributions' though does indicate that it would be deals soley for Axl/on Axl's behalf and not every credited songwriter on a given GN'R track.

The fact that they've made this deal does indicate that there must be a way to go about it already set up!

who knows?! perhaps Axl has bought out D&S and is sole right holder??

I'd love to know more about it.? ?But oh well... just bring on CD! hahaha!

EDIT: 

thats the only way i've been able to reconcile this...   
yet, just HOW they can hanlde soley Axl's share in any given deal is what has got me scratching my head.

anyone have any other ideas on how they would go about it?

From The Times' article:

Sanctuary said that it did expect to generate about ?50 million from exploiting Guns N? Roses hits through film soundtracks, cover versions and their use in advertisements.


Didn't Duff and Slash have something to say about this in the past?  ???





/jarmo

ok winston wolfe :hihi:

i think the publishing deal is one of the final obstacles, i really believe that.

 According an article in the U.K.'s The Times, Sanctuary Music Group said that it expected to generate about ?50 million (approx. $94 million) from exploiting GUNS N' ROSES hits through film soundtracks, cover versions and their use in advertisements. Sanctuary announced earlier in the week that it had acquired the publishing rights to GUNS N' ROSES' back catalogue in a deal believed to be worth ?10 million (approx. $19 million).

Deke Arlon, Sanctuary's head of publishing, said: "After THE BEATLES and QUEEN, there doesn't come much bigger in the rock canon than GUNS N' ROSES. We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history."

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary's business plan.

Sanctuary has also secured the rights to "Chinese Democracy", the new GUNS N' ROSES album and all future Rose material. However, the album has no release date 12 years after work began. The effort has cost other labels ?6 million (approx. $11 million) and seen off eight producers.

so CD will or will not be on geffen or interscope?  is Sanctuary gnr's label? 

I just read over at Snakepit.org that Slash and Duff still have to sign off on any deals regarding GNR music for movies and other forms of entertainment. I thought that would be the case.

Maybe axl,slash and duff reached a compromise

axl would allow GNRs music to be whored out to the highest bidder in exchange for slash and duff agreeing to let sanctuary handle it.

i dont want GNR songs on every movie soundtrack

and i sure as fuck dont want a gnr song in a tv commercial

if they have paradise city in a fucking viagra commercial im gonna lose a ton of respect for GNR.
when i think of GNR i dont wanna picture a fuckin tv commercial

that sucks!

is the originals then? thats cool too? :D
and yeah with d, seems findind the moment 4 a release is next? :beer:

WHEN CD is finished or ......... CD is already finished at this moment?

Slash Speaks About Axl's New Publishing Deal   
 

From Sp1at.com
 
The Story

Former Guns n Roses guitarist Slash has issued a statement on his official website giving his take of Axl Rose's new deal with Sanctuary Music Publishing.

In an attempt to clear up any confusion fans may have Slash said "The deal is that the back catalog is all material from Appetite... through the ...Illusion albums, the original band, GNR. There are three signatures required on every deal: Slash, Duff and Axl. Since Sanctuary bought Axl's share for 20 years from now on every deal, there has to be approval by Sanctuary, Slash and Duff."

Slash then went on to say that he would never sell out in the way that Axl has done and that his share of the Guns name is "too valuable".

In the statement it also became clear that Axl's deal with Sanctuary Music Publishing lasts 20 years and that Axl Rose has acquired an up front fee, believed to be in the region of ?10 Million rather than a percentage of any royalties gained from exploiting Guns n Roses music.

From what Splat has gathered it is Duff McKagan's lawyers that have the biggest objection with the publishing deal and may try and challenge it in court. If this is the case and they are successful then further delays may be possible

Oh great.

i never thought of axl as a person whould sell out, so i have a little hard time believing that, but why was this deal made do you think? for what reasons? there has to be something more important than the ten mill up front??

So is Slash confirming that Axl hasn't lost his publishing rights? I was under the impression that Slash and Duff were claiming he gave them up when the resigned from the old Gnr and took ownership of the name.

Clearly this deal has nothing to do with the lawsuit. Axl grabbed some cash from Sanctuary, perhaps he needed some liquidity. the catalog of CD isn't a bad move, but giving Sanctuary the right to control use of the back catalog is disturbing to me.

yes norway, it was the back catalog as well as the futures.

Sort of....new original? I meant the bonus may come in handy sometime or other.
I mean, whose approval would be required on every deal for these rerecorded songs?

Is it anyway possibly to see the terms of the contract signed? Mysteron?

it's kinda cool since it's in future it can be gnr from same source regardles of content, era and album :)
did i get that right? good move if so  :peace:

I think otherwise. The lawsuits might have something to do with the deal.
You can?t see the wood for the trees. 
For instance, what did Axl say in regard to CD in London 02, which Norway often quotes.

Yeah, I can see what you are saying. The deal could be struck down if the court rules that axl didn't own the publishing rights that he sold to Sanctuary for the next twenty years. Mysteron was correct; the gnr partnershp will not be happy with Sanctuary's role in ownership of the rights. I expect the consequences of the Slash/Duff v. Axl verdict just become substantially more grave for both sides.

I merged the "Final phase" and the "publishing deal" threads since they're basically about the same things, which are Axl signing the deal and what it might mean for the future of GN'R.



/jarmo

It's pretty obvious what's happened

Axl must be struggling financially - a nice round figure of 10 million in his bank balance would help clear certain debts he owes with certain record labels - which would indicate, no album for some time.....

Just my point of view.

That's a possibility.

But at the same time, the news report on Sanctuary's site mentioned recently recorded tracks. So, who knows.

Would they mention those if they weren't finished or close to being finished?




/jarmo

FUCKING LAWYERS :rant:

I'm getting utterly confused now. One minute the Slash/Duff thing has nothing to do with the release of CD, now it appears the two are intrinsically linked.

 :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

 :idea: is it not a sign that the legal issues been worked out...?
at least slash and duff must negotiate with sanctuary instead of axl, and axl-sanctuary, uh... i think so? :nervous:
anyway, the said next step is workin out a release date? :beer:

Slash's statement makes it painfully obvious that the legal issues have not been worked out.

I don't know. My instincts tell me that this is a pretty good deal for Axl. ?10 Million to walk away from that mess of having to get Slash and Duff to agree on every request to use a GN'R song. Those three guys have been hardly able to agree on anything for 15 years and the animousity is only sure to grow as VR and nu GNR are sure to be in direct competition with each other over the next few years. There's a good chance Axl never would have seen ?10 Million by retaining his share. Of course, Slash and Duff could try to put the blade to Axl by licensing GN'R songs left and right now that he's not in the royalty picture for 20 years- but that would be "selling out".

As far as Axl goes- I hope the ?10 Million is headed straight into his own personal vaults and not "needed" to pay off CD debts. Otherwise, the stakes for CD just got raised that much higher.

I'd be willing to bet Axl finally let Sanctuary listen to the finalized tracks. Maybe that was the final nail in the coffin for this deal. I'd bet Sanctuary would want an idea of what the future investment was before jumping on this deal on Axl's terms. Because lets face it, Axl wouldn't go into a contract at this point without having it his way. He's been there, done that, and I think he is ready to move forward finally.

Its paionfully obvious now that slash and duff are trying everything they can to stop cd from coming out. The lawsuit proves that, and also the fact that duffs lawyers are going to challenge the deal between Axl and Sanctuary. Which if Duff wins that would result in more delays for CD. What a bunch of nice guys salsh and duff are hey?  ::)

:headscratch: you got me right perhaps. I was thinking about a long possible plot that was thickened with the release of GH and that lil S+D's suit. If so, now the word is soon and hey, what a cheek, whoever the wiser is. Yeah, Cheek it!

And no, I expect  the Karma of Slash/Duff v. Axl is coming to an end thanks to this deal. It's almost there. In large, maybe their suit is not that big deal to begin with. Further more, when the final verdict doesn?t seem to be brought in for, say a couple of decades easy, who is the wiser?

That?s just a thought but maybe correct.

I don't understand. Has Axl just written away his royalties and sold out?

Sp1at have incorrectly made a report out of the information posted on www.snakepit.org. Slash HASN'T issued a statement, the webmaster contacted his management for info. Read it again.

there are two options in my opinion as to why this has happened

1. Axl is broke and needed money


2. this is just the final way for Axl to say goodbye to the old band and focus on the new. by doing this axl never has to deal with Slash and Duff again so i think this couldve been a way to cut all remaining ties from the old bandmembers.

I dont really view it as selling out, i think axl just wants to concentrate on Chinese Democracy and wave goodbye to the old band and old material, now if he will only stop playing every old song live, ill be happy! : ok:

Well, I would hope he plays a few oldies!

Or Because he had to do that so as to sign fot the new songs also.

It's basically a rumour board and that's it.

i just had a 3rd theory

maybe axl's publishing company of old included the slash/duff partnership

so the only way to break away from that partnership and start a new publishing with Guns N Roses was to do what he did.


I think he needs money though

maybe he is having to fund CD out of his pocket now or something.

I cant really see axl doing something just for the money, he doesnt seem that way, so he must be going broke or it had something to do with moving forward to the new album.

You may have read on the net that Axl Rose has signed with Sanctuary Records. In addition, some reports are that Sanctuary has the rights to the GNR back catalog. We asked the SLASH management if Axl owned the back catalog and had the right to sell it. The deal is that the back catalog is all material from Appetite... through the ...Illusion albums, the original band, GNR. There are three signatures required on every deal: SLASH, Duff and Axl. Since Sanctuary bought Axl's share for 20 years from now on every deal, there has to be approval by Sanctuary, SLASH and Duff. Axl got some millions up front and nothing else on this for 20 years. SLASH and Duff have not signed over their shares to anyone...too valuable. Hope this clears up any confusion.

http://www.snakepit.org/news.html


That's Linda's site, it's the Official Slash Fan Site, not the Official Slash Site.




/jarmo

so if the x-members has problem with anything regarding gnr, they need to sue or negotiate w\ sanctuary, not axl's laywers...? ::)

it says in the thread that axl was offered more money from other's but signed to sanctuary because the deal pleased him the most? :)
so money don't seem to be an issue imo
luckily this will deal w\ sanctuary makes that only releaseplans are what need to be worked out,
looking good? :beer:

well well well...
this answered a lot of those questions I had yesterday about how they would handle deals involving the old catalogue.

Axl, Slash, Duff approval will now be Sanctuary, Slash, Duff approval for licensing.

I agree with a lot of what you guys have posted - I'm beginning to like this deal more and more.
Axl won't have to deal with Slash/Duff anymore. ? : ok:
I hope! ?:nervous:
hehehe
Good for him.
Perhaps (as someone has already mentioned ?: ok: ) ... perhaps now Sanctuary will handle the S+D lawsuit...
(http://www.johnkalodner.com/images7/BillLiebowitzBertDeixler1003.jpg)
this is a picture of Bert Deixler (on the right)... ? taken at... Sanctuary's offices in LA. ?;D

And another thing! ?Once again... ?Sanctuary has to be pretty god damn confident that Axl has the rights in order to make this deal. ?Thats good news. ?

As for Duff considering legal action to stop this...
its Axl's share... ? what can he say other than what he's already alleged in the S+D suit? ?::)

Best wishes Axl!
Give 'em hell Sanctuary!! ;)





agreed  :yes:

thing is their signatures on any licensing agreement will not be in invisible ink...
so how would they be able to complain  ;D

VERY WELL SAID : ok:

if GNR songs pop up in tv commercials they will lose so much of my respect.

I always respected Prince cause so many "rap artists" begged him to sample his work back when it was popular

P Diddy called Prince personally and asked him if he could sample "Kiss" Prince told him Hell No!!!!!!

Axl doing this makes me lose some respect for him

ive always admired axl cause he has been the one guy in my eyes who has never really sold out

i applauded him for not putting songs on lame movie soundtracks and tv commercials *the wttj in san andreas is ok* cause he is in the game

but there is nothing i hate worse than a song in a tv commercial

i can handle movie soundtracks but no tv commercials

if a gnr song appears in a lame TV add i will never listen to that song again, cause it will totally fuck up any meaning i once felt for that particular song and it will make the song lame in my eyes.

i hope there is something different to this deal.

but if they paid 8 figures, u better believe GNR's legacy will be fucked even worse than it is now and get ready to see GNR become whores. it sucks and it pisses me off!

i dont mind axl disrespecting us by not sharing anything, i dont mind him being late for concerts
but dont fuck with the music by whoring it out to bullshit.

thats where i draw the line! :rant:

What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. First off, nobody here really knows anything regarding this situation. You may think you do, & spout your opinions thusly, but NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING. NOT YOU, NOT ME, NOT SPLAT, NO ONE.

Now, to address the hypocrisy. It's funny how now that? Slash & Duff's name have been brought into this, the phrases "whoring out" & "selling out" are being bandied about, but no one has a problem or says boo about the fact that this supposed deal supposedly gives Sanctuary control over Axl's future work(if he ever gets it together enough to release any) - he sold out his future work for Sanctuary do do as they please- I believe the word they used in the press release was "exploit", so how come you don't have a problem with Axl, to use your own expression, "selling out" ? You don't have to answer, we already know why.

Funny, since Prince himself has sampled other artists. ?"Arrogance" actually sampled Eric B. and Rakims "I Know You Got Soul," "Jazz It Up (Jazz Mix)" by C.F.M Band, and "Niggaz 4 Life" by N.W.A. ?"The Flow" has a sample of "Tramp" by McCracklin and Fulsom. ? ?


What are you talking about? ?This romanticized notion that Axl will not allow his work to be used for commercial purposes is complete bullshit. ?For example, this comment made by another poster:



Complete bullshit. ?"Welcome To The Jungle" is currently in a commercial. ?Its in a video game. ?GNR songs have always been in movies, or on movie soundtracks. ?So if youre "counting down the days," youre a little late. ? : ok:


Well, then you should be pissed, because a GNR song is in a commercial. ?And I dont think its necessarily Slash and Duffs doing...


Unless Axl has a small part in whatever product is being advertised?

As for Axl selling his rights, thats his right and his decision. ?Its just amazing how some will take that action and somehow turn it on Slash and Duff to make them the "bad guys." ?Typical, though.

I agree unless Duff/ Slash attempt to derail the deal through more litigation, which knowingly would disrupt the release of Chinese Democracy. No publishing deal = No CD.

I didn't appreciate the 'selling out' comment since it wasn't explained properly; one could make the short leap that Slash/Duff are being a bit hypocritical since the in their lawsuit they explicitly say that Axl singlehandedly derailed a number of deals which would have put GnR songs in movie soundtracks. I think though they were refering to selling out his publishing rights; the comment though has other less complimentary connotations.

Why not?  What would be the difference between them and Axl?

If Sanctuary plans on making money ($50 million?) with this deal, wont they be a little less difficult than Axl when it comes to licensing , or agreeing with Slash and Duff on licensing.  It seems like theyre less likely to block deals...Moral and personal issues arent going to be the same.  This seems like it would be good news for Slash and Duff.


Yeah, but one could just as easily counter that theyre doing what they want with the music they wrote...Not selling it to an outside body to decide on its use.  Theres a significant difference.

Well I see this as Axl's way of washing his hands of all the BS with the existing partnership.

That crap about Slash and Duff feeling it's "too valuable" is such laughable bullshit. They were the sellouts who wanted songs in every fucking movie they could whore themselves to. Axl at least had the presence of mind to have STANDARDS. Big Daddy (hey I don't like him much but Sandler is popular), End of Days, etc... meanwhile Slash would probably see SCOM included in a J-Lo flick if it brought him a paycheck.

So Axl sells his portion, gets a nice cash infusion up front, and note he took LESS than was offered and held out for a deal he felt would be best for the legacy of the band, and gets to wash his hands of the bullshit of his ex-bandmates.

Plus, it covers the rights for CD. Which hopefully means that is on the launchpad at long last.

dude if u cant see the difference in axl having a song ina commercial for a violent video game which he is in and say "we are the champions" in a viagra commercial, i cant help u out.


i can live with the san andreas cause that game could be a music video for wttj, plus axl has a nice role in that game.

however if SCOM was used for a makeup or shampoo commercial id be pissed off

just like Love hurts in that shaving commercial, thats horrible!

Like a Rock by bob seger could be a great song but i cant listen to it cause all i think of is a fuckin truck.

Jet,Lenny kravitz, all their songs that were featured in commercials first, i just dont take seriously when i hear them or see the video cause somehow the commercial makes me listen and view it in a different light.

If 'old' GN'R songs can be licenced off by Sanctury, Slash and Duff for movie soundtracks etc etc, what's stopping Sanctury from doing the same (own their own) to any Chinese Democracy tracks right now if they have Axl's share in the forthcoming and future material?

back to page 7

When AD companies pay big bucks to buy the rights to a song, they do it because the song is recognizable...

Not because GNR fans will stay home and wait for the ad to play again and again just to listen to the 30 seconds of the new GNR song which noone else recognizes.

i bet the terms are different for the newmaterial since gunsroses name is axl's legally-
and slash and duff will not be needed for licening new stuff....   ;)

it's cool since sanctuarys use of the old material, in fx commercial,
will also, for all practical purposes, promote gnr which will be active in the future  :)

so axl can focus on gnr and gets benefits (socially) from the oldgnr
uh... i think i'm right  :nervous:

wtf???

the fact that gn'r has always been in soundtracks and commercials is so BS is not even funny, what the hell are you talking about? sure they have popped up a few times, but seldom with an official soundtrack and i can't think of a commercial they have been in except for "robinson survivour vip" in norway and sweden  :hihi:... you never see official gn'r merch in stores and so on. there is no doubht that the gn'r name has been very well protected the last decade.

And the fact that duff and slash had to sue axl for not letting them put old gn'r material in films says it all.

and for duff's and slash's part, they might not want to give away the gn'r rights they have, but it's pretty obvious that they still want to milk the gn'r cow EVEN tho they're doing a total different gig these days...

i'd be pretty fucking dissapointed if sanctuary, duff and slash started to throw out old gn'r songs all over the place...

Slash and DUff still have to put thier vote in for a song to go on a commercial or movie. Sanctuary is taking Axls place not the whole band. SO there are still 2 other people that have to approve or reject a song being sold. This is actually better for Slash and Duff because I remember reading that they wanted a few songs on some movies but Axl didnt allow it...something to that effect....
Now they have their wish of not having to deal with Axl and Duffs lawyer is going to get into the way. I just dont get it. Axl will not be involved with old gnr anymore yet why the challenges? They will also have the potential to be making a shit load of more money on old gnr material than Axl as well.

Yea, Axl is always looked upon as the good guy? : ok:

are you kidding me ? go to blabbermouth and read most of the comments on every GNR thread, people fucking hate AXL.

That doesn?t amaze me. I find another thing typical here. That is, a certain number of posters become extra unreasonable when they are losing arguments.
Like fan, like artist? What else can you expect?
If SnD were happy with this news S wouldn't be so bitter.

The company has the Shareholders. They?re not the most understanding bunch toward music. Their concern is if their investment is sound and pay dividends.  They require sure prospects of the company. In explanation of the expenditure the company would cite something convincing to everyone as security for the deal. It doesn?t mean they are planning to exploit it wrongly.

As I said earlier, Sanctuary seems rather musician friendly.
Remember GH was released with the disapprovals of all of them. And that apparently hindered the release of new album, according to the management.

sanctuary can publish gunsnroses music 4 use regardles of era, i think it's a good strategic move 4 gnr ?:)
i think it's axl who gets the most recognition for gunsnroses material in public and from new listeners....

good 4 him? : ok: so gunsnroses maybe get lots of ?recognition\commercial backup in upcoming releases? :D
and it think this is a sign that a release date 4 new music is bein worked on next...

I was losing an argument? I'm afraid I don't understand why you are singling me out. I agreed that axl could do with his shares whatever he wanted. But the language in Slash's statement leaves an opening for critics to label him a hypocrite. He can criticize Axl all he wishes, but it doesn't change the fact that Axl legislated his shares to someone else for the next twenty years. He will probably even received  some publishing royalites for them too.

killingvector, Come on,  if you read ya quote carefully, you must know that I'm not singling you out!

i was being sarcastic

Communication is often difficult. Not everyone has same sense of humour.  :-\

it's hard to tell from what you wrote previousy, but I accept your last response.

If you considered End of Days and Big Daddy as 'standards' or good films then I wonder what would you describe as 'shit'. Cause those two movies were as weak as a movie can be.

BTW some of you really need to visit your doctor/psychiatrist because your hatred against Slash and Duff isn't normal at all. You are always findind them because you are frustrated not getting CD and it's impossible for you to realize who is responsible for most of this shit in the GN'R world.

I would assume Axl has faith in them since he went with less money.   Maybe they will protect GnR from being on a tampon commercial.

EOD was an Arnold film and Big Daddy was a very popular film. The list that I saw SLash wanted to see GNr songs in was not what you call A list movies either...

Where should the people who have a lot more hatred and animosity towards Axl go?

Not having Cd ?has nothing to do with why people dislike Slash and Duff. Its more of how they change thier tune every other day than anything else.

But yes, all who hate slash and duff have major problems...

I don't think that Axl will only get the 10 million pounds...

I believe that he'll also gain from selling the rights in future deals. That's why he chose Sanctuary over other companies...

Yes, in your world Slash and Duff is responsible for everything bad in the last 8 years, too. That's not normal. I've never said that GN'R broke up because of only Axl, of course not, every bandmember had his part from Steven and Slash to Axl and Tobias. But when there's something wrong's happenin' with VR or Snakepit none of the Slash fans blamed/blames Axl for it. But if Axl sells his rights then who is the biggest fuckhead? Slash and Duff. ?:confused: And the chant is starting again that Axl would have fuckin' released his album, if those evil bastards hadn't make it impossible ?:confused: OMG... There isn't any risk in consulting a psychiatrist, some of you just go there and speak about GN'R and then he/she'll get some pills to HAVE A LIFE. That's it.

And I don't hate Axl, he is my all time favourite singer, I bet that noone wants his return more than me, but I'm sick of those fans who act like it'd be a religion to be an Axl fan. And please read the posts carefully whose fans show much much more hostility and hatred against Slash N' Duff/Axl.

Please, direct me to a post of mine where I make that claim. I think SLash and Duff have had a role in the delays of CD from a legal issue standpoint. But none of that has made me have hatred towards them. I havnt thought about them 1 bit in that regard. I dont say that Slash and Duff are being dicks and being difficult with the whole legality thing therefore I dont like them. Sorry but thats not how it is....
what comes out of their mouth is a different thing...and even after that I dont despise them. Just dont think their angles or always right

Whos calling who a sellout? All Axl has done was sell what he OWN in the gnr partnership to the company. The reason people are getting annoyed at Slash and DUff is because they are the same people who were complaining how Axl wouldnt use various songs in past soundtracks. The same people who keep saying they dont want to have anything to do with Axl, are the same people who might attempt to challenge this move in court. The move that eliminates Axl from the old gnr picture. Strange isnt it? The funny thing is that they still have a say on what can or cannot be used in a soundtrack. They just dont have to go through Axl now. WHich is what they never really want to do.

Please dont come here and tell me that Slash and Duff have it much harder with the fans/media and general public than Axl. Please do us all a favor. The reaility is Axl is the dickhead and the guy who broke up old gnr. Whether any of that is true or not will never be known. But what is known is that over the years people have leaned to the Slash and Duff corner....I have noticed over the past year or so that a lot of people are starting to realize that maybe Axl isnt lieing about some things afterall. Maybe there is some truth to what he says and not everything Slash and Duff say are true. Mainly because of what comes out of their mouth.
Now if that makes some1 a fanatic then theres nothing I can do. If some1 doesnt agree with Slash they get labeled anyways...Godforbid some1 say Axl might be in the right....

Im saying this (GNR songs appearing in movies) is nothing new...With Axl in control of his rights, we saw GNR songs in:

1989 ?Lean on Me Original Soundtrack ? Performer
 1990 ? Nobody's Child: Romanian Angel Appeal Various Artists ? Performer
 1991 ?Days of Thunder Original Soundtrack ?Performer
 1994 ? Vid Grid Various Artists ? Performer
 1995 ?Interview with the Vampire Original Soundtrack ?Producer, Performer
 1995 ?Kuschelrock, Vol. 9 Various Artists ? Performer
 1995 ?Rocks Off Various Artists ? Performer
 1996 ? Best Rock Anthems in the World...Ever! Various Artists ? Performer
 1996 ? Soft Rock: 36 Classic Rock Ballads Various Artists ? Performer
 1997 ?Grosse Pointe Blank Original Soundtrack ?Producer, Performer
 1998 ?Can't Hardly Wait Original Soundtrack ?Performer
 1998 ? Rocktober Various Artists ? Performer
 1998 ?Welcome to the Jungle Jim Rome ? Performer
 1999 ?End of Days [Clean] Original Soundtrack ? Performer
 1999 ?End of Days Original Soundtrack ?Performer
 1999 ?Kuschelrock, Vol. 8 Various Artists ? Performer
 2004 ?Greatest Hits Guns N' Roses ?Group, Producer
 ? ? Decline of Western Civilization, Pt. 2: The Metal Yea

Not to mention Terminator 2 (for which "YCBM" was almost a commercial), Cant Hardly Wait, The Program, Real Cancun, Big Daddy and others Im probably forgetting. ?The Longest Yard seems to be another. ?In the lawsuit, I think Duff and Slash cited 4 or 5 movies (not commercials) that Axl blocked. ?One being Black Hawk Down, which Axl apparently agreed to give music to only if he could re-record with a different band. ?But youre okay with that?

Wasnt "Live And Let Die" being used in a commercial for Richard Bransons reality show a few months back? ?And we know "WTTJ" is currently in a video game commercial...but thats okay. ?The reality of that isnt as offensive as this invented notion that Slash and Duff are dying to put their songs in commercials...Ive seen no evidence of this. ?The lawsuit cited movies (movies that Duff thought were good, whether you agree or not is irrelevant). ?So the point is, GNRs music is in Real Cancun, and it was used while Axl was still owner of his rights, and apparently had the power to black deals. ?


A few times ?:hihi:...see above.


And Richard Bransons show...and movie trailers...and Grand Theft Auto. ?Thats while Axl had his rights.


But theres a ton of it online...So its better because its less convenient for fans to buy? ????


If by well-protected you mean licensed to numerous film projects, merchandise sold online, and select commercials and video games... : ok:


No...They sued Axl for not letting them put songs in some films...You seem adament in ignoring the dozen or so movies he apparently did allow songs to be licencsed.


If you want to call that milking the cow, feel free. ?But understand that Axl was right there with them up until the last 5 or so offers. ?And selling the rights for $10 million could be called milking the cow by some. ?No matter what gig their doing, thats still their music and they want control of it. ?


 ::)

My original post wasn't directed to you but you surely felt concerned and replied. That's something you should clear with yourself.

I don't mind if Axl sold his right or not. It's his business. Slash and Duff wants to sell GN'R songs to commercials or movies? It's their business. If Axl doesn't want GN'R songs in commercials or some movies he'll surely be able to cancel that because he's smart enough to have a contract with Sanctuary with his wishes and his terms. And it's quite obvious that Slash and Duff has a say in what's happenin' with the 'old' GN'R songs, since they wrote them. I wonder why Izzy and Steven doesn't have a say in this, maybe they left under different circumstances and Slash N' Duff had better lawyers.

I still think that Axl fans hate much more Slash, Duff and occasionally their fans than the fans of Slash N' Duff do. But it has nothing to do with Axl, Slash or Duff, it's only some fans acting. And sorry, I still don't believe that Slash or Duff forbade Axl to put out CD under GN'R's name and I don't remember Axl mentioning this so I don't know how some of you (maybe not you, YG) came to this 'conclusion'.

It was a version by another band

from 89-about 95/96 wasnt slash and duff still in the band? So Im sure they agreed with all of those songs as well. It wasnt just an Axl thing. Otherwise they woul dhave said something during that time or in the recent years when they have discussed Axl and this situation. I dont even know what half of that stuff is. Never even knew that it existed and Gnr were involved. The only major things Axl has done is the Big Daddy{did the old band have any say in that}, EOD, and the video game.

Maybe your the one who need to be more clear. "you are always finding them.." when i see you I think me...so thats all you not me....

Axl is rumored to be a smart guy  ;)

thats an argument you will never win

Your point is irrelevant.  Because the point wasnt to exonerate Slash or Duff, but to show that a lot of GNR material has been licensed under Axls "watch."  If Axl was the true paragon of musical integrity that some here wished he was, he would have blocked a lot more than Death To Smoochy and a few other movies.

fair enough...but he also hasnt whored the gnr music either like many other bands have done

"The relationship between a music publisher and a songwriter/composer is supported by a publishing contract setting out the rights and obligations of each to the other. Under these contracts songwriters and composers assign the copyright in their music to the music publisher in return for a commitment to promote, exploit and protect that music. The publisher agrees to pay the songwriter/composer a percentage of any income earned from such exploitation as royalties. http://www.mpaonline.org.uk/faqs/what_is_pub.html

To obtain the rights to the songs, the publisher may offer a financial incentive (an advance), and a subsequent royalty rate. The worst case scenario royalty rate for a songwriter would be 50% of income received.... The publisher, however, will recoup any advance before paying royalties to the songwriter http://www.musicjournal.org/01publishingresource.html


In the music industry the term 'exploit' is what is commonly used to mean: ?
To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exploit
The term "exploit" in the music industry does not connote/mean the same as what you're likely refering to.
See the above posted linked information from music industry resource sites.


Me too. ?I think its great. ?I recall the gnronline press release in aug 02 in which Axl said:

For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea."

Perhaps now this is what makes him totally a free man. ?: ok:


How many movie soundtracks did they name in their lawsuit in which they say Axl refused to give his permission, thereby blocking the deals?
I believe the number was somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 or 9.
So, as BookerFloyd mentioned in this thread... you'd think this would be good news for them.
They can no longer claim that Axl is blocking a to spite them.... to keep them from earning.


This appears to me, to be a brilliant move by Axl. ?


I think its hilarious.
Slash and Duff sue Axl claiming that he's been refusing permission to license their music and blocking them from earning.
Now Axl takes himself out of the equation - and they are still complaining? ?:confused:


right or wrong - will always be open to interpretation
what is not open to interpretation is fact vs. fiction ?;)

btw:? Death to Smoochy!? hahahah!? ?I actually like that movie ;D

this is good news but I won't get my hopes up.. This album is taking forever,.. :'(

Thanks Eva for the relevant info.

I hope Slash/Duff vs Axl karma on the board finishes with this thread, as in actuality it is finishing now.
I?ve never said anything biased against Slash or Duff, because my concern about them is between slim to nil.
Let Bygones be bygones. Start Slash/Duff vs Sanctuary karma @ VR section, if any of us need it.

Exactly.  >:( I must add that it?s Axl who's been constantly bashed by the media and critics and most importantly n revoltingly by some of his old fans who want him to stay their model bad boy. Sick.

I?d say it's them who need to visit their doctor/psychiatrist because their hatred against Axl is abnormal. :puke:

nice post, thanks for posting all that stuff!

if axl said no to do official soundtracks for five movies, that would be almost half the ones they have done already in theyr entire career, so it is quite many in that case. Most of the flicks gn'rs OSTs are from when they(GNR) were active and after that it has been lald once, paradise city once, a rerecorded scom, omg, and then wttj in gtaSA, if there were to be five more it would be way too many imo.... Some of the late soundtracks has had something interesting/new about them too except paradise city in can't hardly wait and lald in grosse point...

If you want to buy unofficial gnr merch it's all over the place, your right about that, but there is only one place where you can buy official gn'r stuff and that is merch.com as far as i know.

if axl would have wanted to milk the cow he would have sold his rights to the one who gave him the most money...

so if axl and gn'r would have been in 12 more movies, it would be way too much i think...

i think the gn'r name is the most protected name in the music history... they don't do many soundtracks in films or commercials, they don't sell official merch on a high scale, axl, slash and duff didn't want to have the GH out, same about hollywood rose, and those other tapes... one might say that it's because axl is in total controll and that he is an asshole for not feeding his fans shit and so on, but i'm fucking glad axl isn't whoring out the gn'r name and if this deals leads to that i'll be pretty fucking dissapointed...

Actually that is not too many. Many of those were during the bands' heyday 89-94

The EOD (OMG) and Interview with a Vampire contributions were one off singles and not tied to any albums; I wouldn't consider those to be in the same vein as WTTJ in Can't Hardly Wait which is the most questionable choice.

Then you have a number of compliation discs listed, some of which are foriegn, some are obscure. I don't remember ever seeing those advertised.


This list is impressive; I am happy Gnr hasn't licensed too much from its studio albums.

I never said anything bad about slash or duff

my posts included the entire group that are responsible including axl,duff and slash

there is a big difference in a film soundtrack and having a song in a tampon commercial.

if u all cant see the difference in that i have nothing more to say to any of you.


the video game isnt bad cause Axl is part of the game and that video game is cool and could be a music video for WTTJ, plus that commercial will run in a very limited release.

imagine Paradise City's chorus in a tampon commercial "take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty.

or Welcome to the jungle i guess would be more appropriate for a tampon commercial :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:


i dont want that shit, it fucks the song and cheapens it and ill lose respect for whichever parties allow that to happen!

...

I know you dont really think this scenario is possible, so I dont get your point.  First its about commercials - now its tampon commercials.  Well, if thats your concern, I think youll be just fine.

a car commercial would be bad a shaving cream, ebay, just whatever

the video game really isnt bad cause axl is in the game and it will only run for a short amount of time.

think of famous songs in commercials

would u ever voluntarily listen to some of those? 

i lost the same respect for aerosmith when they put "just push play" and "sunshine" in those dodge truck commercials

i havent listened to my Just push play cd since cause those songs make me think of a truck and i cant enjoy em.

tv commercials are bad for songs by any artist in my opinion.

What about It's my life? I really liked that song in the commercial, too.

This still doesnt mean shit...

This also means that Geffen wont be publishing any new material anytime soon.. Sanctuary bought it from Geffen .. Sanctuary will "exploit" the fuck out the old music to recoup their money....

Axl rose is turned into an asswipe and cant even release one god damn song..

Sanctuary didn't buy anything from Geffen. Geffen never owned the publishing rights
 to GnR. Axl made the deal with Sanctuary, as his old deal expired. His recording
contract with Geffen/Universal remains intact.
Also today, melodicrock.com apparently misread the press release and is saying
that Axl left Geffen for Sanctuary records.

I seem to recall Jim Rome bitching about Axl trying to block that one.

I saw it! They fucked up, it was indeed a misread. They should visit here more to learn a little bit. :yes:

Uh, yeah.. I just wanted to say that the "Paradise City" scene in Can't Hardly Wait was pretty funny when I originally saw it. And I wasn't a GNR fan at the time..

I think this is a brillant move for axl... because now if gnr music gets exploited for commercial reasons he can wash his hands of any blame.

Axl

" The publishing company told me they wouldn't use any of material in any manner that would tarnish the image of gnr so i agreed. But then slash and duff went ahead and signed it away now be have jungle on a preperation H commercial"

and i wonder why izzy isn't considered part of the partnership??

is that an Axl quote?

no, i believe the poster was just presenting a hypothetical scenario and what he supposes Axl would/could say (sorta). ;)

 :hihi: ah i see, funny post he he

that was a real though one to get eh... :-[

indeed.  :hihi:
I personally don?t hate hearing good songs on good TV commercials. Maybe US commercials are all craps, but I?ve seen really beautiful commercial films, even better than most of music video clips. When the commercial film is a cool one, it promotes the music efficiently far and wide.

sometimes music (and artists)  from generations past have been re/introduced to newer generations through movies and yes - tv and commercials

lol@ the tampon ad comments

um.. so yeah...  music can be used tastefully in commercials/advertising and if done for something 'cool' or innovative that 'fits' with the 'image' or 'tone' or 'mood'  of the artist &/or music.

If slash and duff have as much credibility and respect for the old music as they say they do, we won't have to worry about tampon commericials or 80s Power Ballad Time Life Compilations.

I was thinking... this publishing deal does not preclude Axl from being involved in other business deals in the entertainment industry... whether it be with filmmaking, literary publsihing (biographical?), or as we see in the case of GTA, any other form of entertainment media by contributing his own talent to thier projects...

In GTA the A/S/D partnership obviously granted license for the inclusion of the music... as did the owner of the sound recordings (Geffen)...
but above and beyond and seperate from that Axl provided an entertaining performance.   Axl  is still a free agent who can pursue deals within the entertainment industry in projects such as these for his own personal satisfaction and enjoyment.   : ok:

Does anyone know?  Anyone?

from what i understand the partnership that has control rights of the material was formed in 1992 - and Izzy obviously was no longer involved at that time

don't get me wrong - the music industry and intellectual property rights and the entire copyright protection laws and all that is very complex and i don't understand completely what rights Izzy does or does not have or why in regards to music which he owns copyright to...

but as far as whatever rights the "GN'R partnership" excercise - it apparently goes beyond or at the least is seperate from, the rights Izzy holds of being a composer/writer and copyright holder (in part) of the music.

not that they ALL don't colelct royalties as is due them - but as far as having controlling interest or a controlling share -- it seems the "GN'R partnership" is the one that grants publishing rights and licensing (permission)....

and the partnership was formed after he quit the band

thats the best i can do to understand/explain

So, in short , the partners with the control rights can decide how to use the material and then the composers/ writers and other copyright holders of the music get fair(?) profits from that. Am I on the right track? ???

Axl Rose Publishing Deal Fuels Feud

By JANET MORRISSEY, For The Associated Press

Rock recluse Axl Rose has signed a multimillion dollar publishing deal, and that isn't sitting well with his former Guns N' Roses bandmates.

The deal with music powerhouse Sanctuary Group covers both the back catalogue, which includes hits such as "Sweet Child of Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain," as well as Rose's future material, including dozens of new tracks he recently recorded for Universal Music.

After burning up charts and selling out stadiums around the world in the late '80s and early '90s, Guns N' Roses endured a bitter split, leaving only Rose and keyboard player Dizzy Reed to soldier on under the GNR banner. Former members Slash (Saul Hudson) and Duff (Michael) McKagan, now part of the band Velvet Revolver, filed a lawsuit against Rose last year over who controls the rights to the old GNR songs. The suit is still pending.

McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, expressed surprise when told of the Sanctuary deal. He said Rose, Slash and Duff were part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement." He added Rose is trying to transfer copyright interests in songs which "are not owned by Mr. Rose." Guns N' Roses' manager Merck Mercuriadis, who just so happens to be CEO of Sanctuary Group, said he didn't want to comment beyond the announcement of the deal.

Industry experts have valued the 20-year deal at about $19 million. Guess a Guns N' Roses reunion won't be happening anytime soon.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050201/ap_en_ce/music_minute_axl_rose


Thanks to Anthony



/jarmo

I know the majority of it doesn't sound promising, but that does.

Looks like Slash and Duff want to be assholes and take this thing even farther cause of Axl's deal.  If this happens, we probably wont see Chinese Democracy for a long time.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd we're back at square one.

This is going to be quite a scuffle! ;D

Well it's no surprise they are giving this deal grief. Obviously there are a lot of feelings between the three. Axl probably doesn't want to deal with slash/duff directly. So the obvious solution was to give Sanctuary the authority to deal with those fucks. This way Axl cuts unwanted stress out of his life and can move on with his new band and he trusts Sanctuary to make the right choices with the music.

At some point, you just have to move on. These guys should just be happy for Axl and the fact that they don't have to wait on a "reclusive hermit", who they hate, to finalize deals with the old music. I can't understand why they aren't happy about this. Enough of the fucking lawsuits and bickering already. Leave Axl be.

Yes, you surely know what's the case with their lawsuit. If your ex-girlfriend sells your house just because you bought it together and she gave spent money for it, then you'll be pissed off for sure. That is Duff's point of view. If Axl sold the rights which were only belong to him, then it's alright. The court will decide who is right, so you don't have to call Slash, Duff or Axl an asshole, because some would think you are the asshole.

Sidenote: If I remember correctly, Izzy ceased to receive/earn royalties on GN'R's music circa 1997/1998.? Not really a part of this particular partnership question, but kinda sorta related.

chinese democracy is future material? ;) and possible new lawsuits regardin old catalogue rights-
- will most likely not prevent sanctuary 2 release chinese democracy

if not axl wan't "all cookies cleared" b4 bein publicly active again, which i doubt :peace:

wisest post so far, i think 2? :) + other beneficial reasons...

Yeah I think that Slash & Duff are not assholes and are in their rights: who would like to lose millions of dollars ?  :)

Do you really think Sanctuary woul dhave done this deal if it had the chance of being blocked in court? Its pretty safe to say Axl sold his rights and his entitlements to the company. Otherwise I doubt the company would have take part in this investment.

I wonder how much of the Axl getting 13 mil upfront has to do with Slash and Duffs wanting to challenge this move. My guess it has a big effect....

I just dont get why though. They finally have Axl out of the picture in terms of dealing witht he old stuff. Isnt that what they always talked about in the press. How they dont want to have anything to do with him? Plus they still have thier own personal vote on what goes and doesnt go in movies. And they also have the potential to make more than Axl on this deal. So whats the problemo? Just because Axl pulls a fast one doesnt mean you have to stop it. Or is that part of the whole "im in a dangerous band thing"?....


how are they losing millions of dollars? They have the chance to make more than Axl on this deal...

btw arent slash and duff the same people who have claimed/sued/challenged Axl that he doesnt have any old gnr rights in the 1st place?

Shit!

Yet more "legalities"

Jonx

Axl/Sanctuary must be really confident that Axl Owns his publicity Rights and he will win the Case Of Slash & Duff. Duff & Slash claim Axl Has no publicity rights as he left the partership. I find it impossible for Sanctuary to sign the deal if they weren't 100% confident that Axl actually Owns his publicity rights.
Very strange that this deal was done at the same time a lawshit is pending for exactly the publishing rights of Axl Rose. ???

 ?

Does anyone know the concrete terms of the lawsuit Slash/Duff have on Axl? Do they argue the publishing rights on the songs sold under the name Guns N roses? Because that's what Sanctuary bought.
If that's the case, and i'm sure that sanctuary have plenty of lawyers and i don't know american laws, but in my country you can't make deals over interests that are to be decided by a court, the deal would be considered nule as soon as interested parties would complain. Unless if for instance Sanctuary takes Axl interests as their own and then Slash/Duff would be in a lawsuit with Sanctuary for the rights to the material and no longer with Axl. If this is the case and considering the costs of this sort of lawsuits Axl made a reallllllly great deal, generally companies don't buy "things" if they don't know if a court is gone come and say "sorry it's not yours, you couldn't made agrements befor court decision so if you invested money it's your one problem". ?
Anyone knows how is it in America?, By the way what are considered publicity rights? because that could only mean profits from direct publicity, like shirts or it could even consider profits from tours for instance.
Fev

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=15279.0

Open the PDF document. Page 5, Point 17,  Section D.

Someone please tell me what is going on, if Slash and Duff currently have a lawsuit pending about the very issue of the Original Recordings, how can he make the deal with Sanctury. I know it doesnt distinguish between Pulishing rights etc... but still.

Jonx

Agreed. :yes:
Axl handed over the assets only belong to him. Sanctuary clearly stated "Rose's contributions to such and such".
But now Duff and Slash are asserting that what Sanctuary got from him didn?t exist, which implies that Sanctuary is who had a bad cheque palmed off on them. God knows whether that will be the case or not within the next 2 decades. That?s it.  : ok:

I'm certain that the Sanctuary deal could be nullified if the court determines that Axl does not own those publishing rights. I suspect that the money up front was less than he could theorectically get if there were no lawsuit over those rights pending.

I do not understand Slash and Duff's beef; they can obviously veto any Sanctuary initiated effort to use the old materials and outvote them on whatever project they are willing to pursue. this is yet another case where these two guys should have kept themselves out of the fray. I guess they need to learn the words, No comment.

all i can say is Merck hooked Axl up!

Axl gets 19 million dollars, sanctuary controls Axl's shares

who is the CEO of sanctuary? Merck is, so Axl will still get a final seal of approval anyway and loses the headache of having to deal with slash and duff.

Plus if something shitty happens with GNR's back catalog, axl is clear cause he can say it was slash,duff and sanctuary's fault.

Axl did a very brilliant thing to finally once and for all move away from the old and have a fresh start with the new.

I love Slash and Duff but its hilarious how axl always seems to be a step ahead of them.

Slash and Duff must feel like Elmer Fudd or Tom from the Tom and Jerry cartoons

i mean axl manipulated them to sign over the rights of the band and now axl gets almost 20 million and still will have a say on how GNR music is distributed.

fuckin brilliant how he keeps running circles around the old band.

Axl should leave his brains out of it so it will be a fair fight! : ok:

 

I do not understand Slash and Duff's beef; they can obviously veto any Sanctuary initiated effort to use the old materials and outvote them on whatever project they are willing to pursue. this is yet another case where these two guys should have kept themselves out of the fray. I guess they need to learn the words, No comment.

Exactly, I really think that Slash and Duff are trying to do everything they can to stop Chinese Democracy from coming out.   Why?  Because deep down inside, I think both Slash and Duff know how talented Axl is and that this Album could be a real success.  And trust me, the last thing Slash and Duff would want is Axl to start getting credit.  They both want to see Axl fail. 

anyone seen metallica's "some kind of monster" DVD?

did u see DaveMustaine and how miserable he was that he got kicked out of one of the biggest bands ever?

I think Slash and Duff will realize what they walked away from when CD comes out and it really bothers them that they arent in GNR anymore.

guys, everyone chill out. look at the article carefully. the only "new" information that the article is based on is the following:

"McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, expressed surprise when told of the Sanctuary deal. He said Rose, Slash and Duff were part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement." He added Rose is trying to transfer copyright interests in songs which "are not owned by Mr. Rose."

read between the lines. duff's lawyer wasnt' aware of this deal. his main issue seems to be that axl never sent this contract to duff or slash. in fact, what probably happened was some random reporter called him up and he had no idea about it, so he just had to go based on what the reporter said. so the lawyer may have just assumed that axl was trying to sell the entire copyrights or publishing rights to the songs, which he would not be allowed to do. it's probably a misunderstanding due to the fact that axl didnt tell the other guys anything about it (and since they are part of the same partnership, they would have a right to know who they had to deal with).

in short: people should chill out and not read too much into this. nowhere does it say that slash and duff want to sue axl or sanctuary over this deal. all it says is that duff's lawyer wasn't aware of it.

yea, slash and duff really seem like miserable guys these days. that whole velvet revolver thing really doesn't keep them busy, does it. they clearly would rather have been sitting on their asses for 10 years than putting out records. one day they will realize this.

You forgot to comment on this. I think the reason why people are worried of more lawsuits is from this statement above. They are claiming Axl didn't have any ownership of the items which he sold. So they are saying the deal is bogus, and I say don't be surprised if they try to fight this out in court too. I don't think this would mean CD gets delayed. Clearly those songs are all Axl's and don't involve slash/duff. Unless he reworked some songs written by duff or slash.

sorry, this was meant to address that:

"so the lawyer may have just assumed that axl was trying to sell the entire copyrights or publishing rights to the songs, which he would not be allowed to do. it's probably a misunderstanding due to the fact that axl didnt tell the other guys anything about it"

in other words, all the lawyer had to go on was what the reporter told him about the deal with axl/sanctuary. the reporter probably told him thatt axl sold the copyrights/publishing rights to sanctuary. when in reality the reporter SHOULD have said axl sold "his portion of" the publishing rights. but even axl's ownership is in contention with the current lawsuit. the lawyer's initial reaction was probably, "hey slash and duff own part of that too". i dont know all the details of the current lawsuit, but duff and slash may even say axl has no say in those rights at all anymore. those issues, if that's what they are, are for the courts to decide. and they will decide based on the law. this is fair.

frankly, i wouldnt take this to mean much (by that i mean don't blame duff and slash for being assholes), as this is just an off-the-cuff reaction by duff's lawyer. if slash and duff really think its a problem, wait for them to say as much.

I agree with you here. ?This article didn't say too much. ?However, I still believe in my earlier post about how Duff and Slash don't want to see CD come out. ?They like it the way it is now (Velvet Revolver touring and putting out music while Axl still hasn't done anything). ?Once CD comes out, I would bet that Duff and Slash know that it's going to be a success. ?I honestly think that they are trying to anything they can to get in the way of it's release. ?That's just my opinion, but I don't think they want CD to see the light of day. ?It will make them look better. ?

This is the essence of their suit against Rose.

I don't think this deal was in anyway meant to settle the lawsuit; in fact, it has inflammed the other side.

well as you know...it will only be because of the GNR name

 ???

velvet-revolver.com (http://velvet-revolver.com)



Sounds right : ok:

:-X : ok:

I'm not sure I agree with this: ?Slash/Duff's and Axl's careers are intimately connected even now - one generates publicity for the other - and so in business terms they're good for each other. ?It wouldn't make sense to keep blocking CD's release (even if they could, which I'm not sure they can), because it would generate media interest, comparison and sales for VR. ?Despite saying 'Oh, well we're a new band', VR exist on the basis on GNR - a fact which they exploit - and Contraband was successful partly due to the interest levels sustained by Axl's 'games' with his new band. ? ?

What confuses me about this, is that its presumably about the old material and Axl's 'deal' with Sanctuary. ?How can this possibly affect production of new music - that has nothing do do with Slash/Duff? ?I don't understand how a dispute about the old stuff can affect possible release of new songs - after all, the only continuum is the GNR name - which, as far as I know, Axl owns anyway. ?So what's going on? ?After all, there didn't seem to be any problem with 'Oh My God'? ?Can somebody explain how this impacts upon CD's release.

Regardless of mr. McKagan's lawyer,


Yep. That?s why I keep questioning Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I mean, why the hell and out of the blue Slash and Duff brought the suit over the partnership after eh, aw many years? Do they comment because they want those who it may concern to know there is a lawsuit pending over Axl?s rights like the cross? I don?t know.

Anyway, I don't think CD is what they wanted (/want?  :-\) to obstruct.

Come on man.. :no: ?


Are you basing this on anything other than your own silly presumptions?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

damn, this is exactly what i tried to post before i left work but i guess something went wrong since i don't see my post. anyway, well put, i agree totally. a gnr vs. vr feud in the rock charts would theoretically be beneficial to both bands (ie: increased publicity, name recognition, music recognition, etc)

as for the second half of your post, the issue is old material vs. new material. if axl can't sign away the rights to the old material, then the contract he signed with sanctuary may be declared null and void. most likely this just means they would have to write a NEW contract that covers ONLY new material (which i'm sure sanctuary would like to do. that is, if they think CD is ever coming out). that's the only way it may affect CD. i'm sure sanctuary's lawyers are aware of this possibility though (or at least i hope!)

Slash and Duff are only trying to protect they're past music. Theres no cold hearted intention to sabatoge Axl. They are still suing for full control of the past catalog,(which is a little more cold hearted) so im sure they are not happy with Sanctuary controlling all they're music. Axl just tried to pass the fued to someone else, and get paid at the same time. Cant say i blame him. But like other posters said, it could be blocked.

my silly presumptions

dave mustaine sold a lot of records and had good success with Megadeth but was always hammered by not being in metallica anymore.

im sure they wouldnt have wanted to sit around for 10 years but they will always be known as members of GNR and although Velvet Revolver kick ass and are a great band i am positive if slash and duff could go back to GNR and have things work out with axl they would do it in a heartbeat

is it not funny to anyone else that no matter how popular VR are getting Slash and Duff still have never ruled out a gnr reunion?

why do u think that is???

Umm Slash pretty much has totally ruled out any kind of GNR reunion .. I've read that from him and also I think he says as much either on gnr - btm or some canadian much music interview.  : ok:

no slash said he wouldnt do it unless there was a mutual respect
so if axl apologized and let the band be a democracy they would do it.

exactly what i said

if axl dropped the ego and let the bandmembers do their thing and wasnt so controlling, they would come back in a second.

thats what im saying, no matter how much they hate axl, they still want to be in GNR and if axl could return to normal they'd be up for a reunion

i guarantee if axl called them and apologized they would come back.

i almost guarantee it!

I appreciate the honesty.  :beer:


Its not even a similar situation...

First, Dave Mustaine was kicked out of Metallica.  Second, it was before Metallica became big or hit their peak.

Compare that to Slash and Duff, who 1) For all intents and purposes, chose to leave GNR 2) And they did it after GNR hit their peak.  Unlike Mustaine, they were there and responsible for GNRs greatest successes.  So theres no feelings of "what could have been," "I missed out," or "They did it without me," feelings that Im sure Mustaine has.  Their situations arent even close.  Theyre the ones successfully touring the world, selling millions of records, getting Grammy nominations, etc. etc.  And theyre doing it with a new band and a new singer.  Do you think theyre looking at Axls situation and thinking "Id rather be a part of that"? 


"And now we've got this going on and it feels better than anything I've done since the first two years of Guns, so it's not even a remote possibility any more." - Slash (Kerrang!, 8/04)

"There?s no part of me that wishes that the original Guns N? Roses could or would reform" - Slash (Q, 7/04)

My problem with Sanctuary controlling the past catalog would be commercials like a KIA car commercial with Paradise City or Welcome to the Jungle?I can here it now Take me down to the car dealership when my credit is good the interest is 0% Oh won?t you please buy my car. Were one small incredibly gay step closer to Mcdonalds running a Appetite for Destruction/hamburger ad!

I thought all Sanctuary purchased was Axl's 1/3 interest. Slash and Duff can still block Sanctuary if they really want to can't they? Assuming Sanctuary is only claiming Axl's 1/3 interest, my take is that I think the main problem Slash and Duff have is that Axl cashed out and was willing to take the risk that they in the meantime would continue to hold up GN'R's "integrity" by not licensing songs left and right. Axl has effectively taken a nice chunk of change and painted Slash and Duff into a very difficult corner. They'll have to decide whether they want their own $19 million pay-outs and in the process really look like the a$$holes of the century when the back catalog becomes entirely corporate controlled OR they'll have to stick to their guns and watch Sanctuary like hawks for the next 20 years while Axl is chillin' in Malibu with his $19 million. It was a real dickhead thing for Axl to do. That being said, it was strategically brilliant and once again Axl's legal team is shown to be 4 steps ahead of whoever is representing Slash and Duff IMO.

Slash is the type to have a change of heart rather suddenly so I take the above statements with a grain of salt.? Axl will be the reason a reunion won't happen, not Slash or any of other former member.

On topic...

Unless Axl lets it, I don't see how Slash and Duff having a problem with his deal with Sanctuary necessarily effects any new material, i.e. the release of Chinese Democracy.?

Surely Axl didn't need that $19 million though and I don't think even Axl would want GN'Rs music to be whored out to the highest bidder ?(atleast I wouldn't then again I'm not axl rose)

Surely Axl didn't need that $19 million though and I don't think even Axl would want GN'Rs music to be whored out to the highest bidder ?(atleast I wouldn't then again I'm not axl rose)


I tend to agree that Axl probably didn't "need" the $19 million- but it's a very creative way to leave Slash and Duff holding the bag with no chance at $19 million unless they very publicly compromise their integrity and cash out too OR retain their interests and whore out the back catalog. I think Axl's wagering that they won't do either. Which means Axl gets the best of both worlds: $19 million for his share while Slash and Duff keep an eye on GN'R's "legacy" free of charge.

How was it a dickhead thing to do?

Slash and Duff are always saying how they dont want to have anything to do with Axl, etc. This deal puts them in that position.
Slash and Duff STILL make up 2/3's of the vote. They can approve or disapprove on what is used and not used.

Slash and Duff have the oppurtunity to make more than Axl on this deal

The same Slash and Duff who wanted to have a lot more GNr songs in movies than Axl did.
And how does this deal mean GnR songs will be whored out left and right? Slash and Duff have the power to approve or disapprove. So if you see future songs in movies, it will have the blessing of the boys.

That Zak Wylde quote comes to mind right about now...how Axl was always playing Axis and Aliies on the phone or something like that.....

Well that wasnt the point...which was that Slash has ruled out a reunion, contrary to Ds statement.


Always?? Ive seen sentiments similar to that expressed a handful of times...


You understand that you dont really know what youre talking about, right?? You can make guesses and speculate like the rest, but speak as if you really know how their business dealings work is foolish.



More spinning...

What "a lot"?


How do you figure that would have been any different had Axl not sold the rights?


Well wasnt Axl protecting GNRs legacy by blocking Slash and Duff on certain movie deals?  In selling his rights, hes opening the doors for Slash and Duff to make the deals he had "protected" the legacy from, right?  So then how much does protecting the legacy really mean to Axl? 

ok...when discussing old gnr and axl, slash and duff usually express how they do not want to have anything to do with Axl...

is that better booker? please dont take off any points for that..thanks teach

If Slash is allowed to guess and speculate about how many tracks are completed on CD or Axls vocals, then Younggunner is allowed to speculate on Slash n companys deals gone possibly bad....

When YG speaks...You are in the NO SPIN ZONE? ;)

Well that question will now potentially be in the hand of Slash and Duff. They have asked for the ball all of these years, fighting in court over who owns what, and has the right to do what, so now they have their chance to do what they wanna do. Just like they wanted. Axl has potentially granted their wishes of staying out of the picture. So while they handle the old gnr stuff, Axl can focus on whats important at the moment...the new Guns material.

And then in like 10-15 yrs Im sure Axl has a master plan in place to obatin old and new gnr stuff all for himself...but thats just speculation on my part

i don't think he's guessing here. From what we know about the partnership and the nature of the lawsuit, it's pretty evident how the licensing scheme works. i think younggunner hit it on the head here. If we are talking about Philly, that's a different story.

No matter how you word it, Ive only seen that kind of sentiment expressed a handful of times...However, your wording is typical of your spinning.

typical of my spinning? Im pretty sure if you ask any1 here they will tell you that for the most part I am very objective.

Im sorry I dont sit here and make sure I have every word well thought out. Its like you disect every word I say...just so you can somehow debunk my posts and not make them credible because I am GNR worshiper... Im sure most people, when reading my posts get my point. You seem to be the only one that disects each and every word and brings them out to my attention instead of just arguing agfainst the actual poin of my posts. I know you know what I mean and say...your a smart enough guy....but why you have to nitpick and bust balls and then somehow throw all that in there with the actual topic and attempt to "win" an argument  is beyond me....

speaking of spinning....does your going off topic by discussing members supposed trends and faults count as spinning...spinning a thread into the garbage that is?

im actually glad the split happened cause i love VR and i love Axl's band.

I still think though after the next VR cd if axl called apologized gave them equal rights back in the band name and equal say on the music, they'd comeback.

however if axl wouldnt have been that way in the first place they never wouldve split up.

good post booker : ok:

makes a lot of sense! :beer:

What the fuck does Axl have to be sorry about?  nothing at all.  fuck that.

Axl has done this purely for the $$$. All future CD tracks will be at the mercy of Santuary to decide if the want FOX to play Chinese Democracy during they're TV commercials, or fat guys in a Wendys commercial eating a hambuger, and smiling while Madagascar plays. Or a commercial with babies in diapers running around while November Rain is playing.

Sanctuary is free to whore the new music out, with potential of making millions more than what Axl recieved. Would you call this brilliant?

I would have to agree with you jabba, isn't sanctuary one of those companies that takes Cds and sells them for 1 cent in buy 10 cds for 10 cents deals?

there is only one thing on his mind i guess, MONEY

Considering that Merck is still involved with GnR in a management capacity, I find that claim dubious. Sanctuary's best interest is for CD to do well; selling off songs to  diaper or hamburger commericals isn't going to help move copies of the album. Sanctuary is  going to help the new band reach a higher profile, whether that means soundtracks or television shows or whatever.  As Sting can attest, older artists have to resort to such things to make money these days. I doubt that GnR would consider commericals for their new music, but the soundtracks will be an important element to the new publishing life of the band since , clearly, GnR won't sell like the backstreet boys anymore.

Anyway, Axl retains all moral rights to his songs.

You can never know. Sanctuary can think that there is 90% chance that Axl will win the battle for controlship, so they signed the deal. But the fact that Sanctuary's lawyers find more likely that Axl has the rights doesn't mean that the court is over, cause an Axl Rose-related company sticks with the Redhead, and Slash and Duff are assholes (I know you didn't say that), because they think otherwise.

The most likely scenario IMO

if you think it's purely for the money, why wouldn't he go with the publisher who offered him the most money? do you really think axl has been so tight on the gn'r material just so he could, all of a sudden, let it all go and get whored down the drain???  ???

Its possible. Noone knows how Axl's financial situation is. All we know is he spent wildly during the illusion tours. Axl could realize he needs the $$$ right now, while GNR music can advertise effectively at a high price. Nobody will know how much someone will pay for GNR music 15-20 years from now, or if anyone would care. But he went with the lower bid because it sounds like Sanctuary is a big fan of the older GNR material. But its going to take a shitload of commercials and movies for them to get $20M back and the make a large profit. Im sure they plan on getting it.

Mr. McKagan?s lawyer more likely finds that Axl has the rights.
In Regard to the comment of Mr. McKagan?s lawyer on the article

McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, expressed surprise when told of the Sanctuary deal. He said Rose, Slash and Duff were part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement."

Also SLASH's management said, according to  the webmaster of the Official Slash Fan Site

There are three signatures required on every deal: SLASH, Duff and Axl. Since Sanctuary bought Axl's share for 20 years from now on every deal, there has to be approval by Sanctuary, SLASH and Duff

Here they are clearly stating Axl is a partner and has the rights.
I must take back my words on my earlier post. (Damn it, I should have completely erased that rumourboard version from my head!) Now Duff and Slash's side is asserting that the assets Axl handed over to Sanctuary dose exist.
Was it like this before this deal emerges?

I?m not certain about what the pending suit against Axl is exactly for.
Are you?

great post that seems very very reasonable

people have to remember that Axl may not be as rich as we think

when u are in a band with that many people, millions of dollars split a whole bunch of different ways doesnt go as far

after taxes,fines,lawsuits etc

plus i like that, make the deal now while there is still an interest

the lowest bidder im sure was to sanctuary cause he feels they will whore it out the least and still keep his interest in mind to a degree.

Now we think the same. I think that there are two possibilities: Axl sold his parts - then it has nothing to do with Slash N' Duff. But if Axl sold all the rights (I'm a bit sceptical that 1/3 of the GN'R rights would worth 20 million), then further lawsuites will take place.

I wonder, if Slash and Duff wanted to, could they block all possible deals?  One would imagine that in order for Axl to receive his full pay, Sanctuary would have to make money off of the rights.  If Slash and Duff chose to be really spiteful and block refuse every deal offered (highly unlikely), what would Sanctuary do then?

but the 19 mill was up fron right?

lets say sanctuary wants to put a gn'r song on a movie soundtrack and duff and slash didn't want it to happen, i guess duff slash and santuary won't get shit done and Axl would still have his 19 mill.

By the time all these deals, cases, etc will be done they'll all be dead.

It's so far away from where they came from; just making music. And now GNR almost stands for a corporate machine. It's such a shame.....

Interesting thing I heard on the radio this morning.
I listen to radio station KFAN in Minneapolis, and the morning show are big fans of rock music, even though it's mainly a sports-based show/station. Every Wednesday, they have Rob Chapman on, a local rep for Sanctuary records. They usually just talk about the top 10 for sales that week, upcoming releases, etc...
Anyway, one of the co-hosts asked him about the GnR deal that was made this week.
Now obviously he's a rep for sanctuary records, and not involved in the publishing end of things, but he knew what it was about.
He stated that they bought AXL'S publishing, which was "most of appetite for destruction." and of course, other songs as well,
but said they didn't have the rights to songs that were credited to slash and duff. And, he said that whenever Axl drops Chinese Democracy, that album will sell HUGE.
Nice to know that the music industry still feels his new music is still very viable.
But I'm not sure how Slash and Duff can stop Axl from selling his publishing rights,
especially since they don't have the rights to the GnR name.

Thanks for posting that, Lesty.  I can understand Duff and Slash being upset that they were not told about this deal as a matter of courtesy.  But, if Sanctuary bought the publishing rights to Axl's contributions to the old material, I don't see how Duff and Slash can legally do anything about that.  But, then again, I'm not a lawyer :)

Ali

But from what i have understood about the lawshit is that they claim that Axl has no publishing rights.

That's certainly true.  That's why I find the comments by Duff's lawyer interesting, about not contacting the "remaining partners."  :)

Ali

Yes, Duff's attorney is essentially admitting that their claim that Axl left the partnership is bullshit. That claim could have already been dismissed by the judge. However, there were more issues involved in the suit than that. In all lawsuits, when writing a complaint, you ask for anything and everything...some things can get dismissed while certain "counts" can remain.

Now tell me if I'm wrong, but if this is true, it means that GNR will be hugely promoted.  They will be all over the place when CD hits.  That's my take.

very good point -  : ok:
this has been pointed out several times in this very thread...
aparently some board members keep forgetting this detail...
i believe the fact that Axl did not simply go with the highest bidder speaks volumes...
coupled with the fact that money has not been a motivating factor for Axl ALL these years...
elsewise he would have allowed the numerous deals Slash and Duff say he blocked AND he would not have protested the GH...
AND he could have put out X numbers of albums or material that were not up to his standard JUST FOR THE MONEY
he has NOT done so
these may seem to be small details but they are KEY...
on top of all this - AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT - Sanctuary Group's other relationship with Axl/GN'R as Sanctuary Managmenet is a strong indicator that Axl and Merck have a good relationship and one which Axl apparently has confidence in as he has now joined the Publishing company as well.



I'm a bit confused on the quote... but to be clear
SLASH AND DUFF ARE SUING FOR FULL CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE GNR' CATALOGUE - the want to CUT AXL OUT
WHICH AMONG US COULD SAY THIS IS UM... RIGHT?  MORAL?  NICE????  FAIR?  or um... UN-ASSHOLELIKE?   :P



that is right - Axl sold his parts - as the press release stated:  his "contributions"
as the statement from SLASH managment confirmed - Befor this deal deals required Axl/Slash/Duff signatures...
now instead of Axl's signature, deals will require Sanctuary's signature - along with Slash and Duff's
Slash and Duff still have their rights!

as far as the deal being for 1/3rd - that is not necessarily the case - there is nothing to indicate that licensing fees / royalties were split evenly among the members.  The only percentage I recall regarding crediting was the formula Slash came up with where Axl 'owned' 42% (of AFD I believe it was).  Though this likely does not apply to the entire catalog (as recall TSI was covers) it shows that there was not necessarily equal splits of credit/renumeration qpplied.  Whatever Axl's share of the rights is, Sanctuary certainly is in the right business to know what its worth - for the old material AND future material.  We can not discount the value of the furture material as I'm sure this represents a major portion of what they consider marketable.  And listen - as i posted earlier in this thread - publishing/licensing income INCLUDES THE MONEYS THE RECORDING COMPANY PAYS PER UNIT -  this means that furture shares of sales/distribution of cd's of the past catalogs AND of the new material goes to Sanctuary.

This is not all about movie soundtracks and commercials.  The publishing deal covers the mechanical licensing - t-shirts, lyrics printing, AND THE ACTUAL CD'S.  That is my understanding from reading though several music industry articles and resource websites.

I just had to check.  The lawyer named in the article is Glen Miskel -  indeed the same attorney that filed suit on Duff's behalf "Johnson & Miskel"
Well... Slash and Duff has been acknowledging Axl's rights FOR YEARS during which they claim he had none... and now Duff's attorney is following suit. (pun intended  :hihi: )

i was under the impression that the 42% number was writing credits for the old material, namely AFD, and not his publishing share.

I wonder what monies Axl gets from CD now; he gets royalties for being the principal writer of the material. Does he retain any publishing royalities for CD? I wonder how much these monies are compared to the writing credits. Maybe $19 million was too low a figure to accept.

since the deal is to contain new material, i think this is actually what makes this deal interesting and even worth mentioning not to mention the basis of the deal in the first place. This deal would have never been made purely for the old stuff...

the fact that the old stuff is thrown in the deal is basically so that axl has one part to relate to i would believe, not one for the new stuff and one for the old stuff.

Duff and Slash will allways be in the way(if one could say that :-X), but that would have been the case with or without sanctuary...

Maybe the new deal will give each member better royalties of the old shit too, which means it could actually be a good thing for all three parts, and former parts too...

i am under the impression that the song credit split is proportionate to the copyright ownership split

so if it was agreed that the lyrics were worth 30% of the credit/ownership and the melody was worth 10% and the guitars 30% and the bass/percussion another 30% (just for the sake of example) then a song/composition could be split between 5 members like so:
1)? Axl - 40%
2) Slash - 15%
3) Izzy - 15%
4) Duff - 15%
5) Steven - 15%

its is my understanding that these percentages which would represent shares of ownership in a song... (each song is owned seperately)

another composition could have been like so:

1) Izzy 45% (lyrics and 1/2 of the guitar work)
2) Axl? 10% (melody)
3) Slash 15%
4) Duff 15%
5) Steven 15%

in this case if this song was granted license by those holding the control (A/S/D) then Izzy would make more $ off of the licensing fees...
edited to clarify - for the SONG/COMPOSTION... not including the recording

as soon as you write a song you own the copyright or a portion thereof depending on how much ownership you are credited with.
Just because Izzy/Steven do not have a vote in the GN'R partnership does not mean they do not get paid for when their songs are used.? That would not make any sense.? Your copyright does not expire til like 50 years after you die (or something like that)

I believe that Axl's deal with Sanctuary includes:?

1)? His one vote? of the three that are required for a deal to be approved for licensing (ed: for the gnr catalogue)
2) His percentage of the money that would be paid to him based on his percentage of ownership for any given song in any given deal.
    (ed:  for the past gnr catalogue and , according to the press release, for new songs also)

so lets say tomorrow GN'R is offered a deal that is worth $1 million to the copyright holders of the compositon/song itself
(the way i understand it the recording copyright is seperate and inolves the recording company)

Sanctuary, Slash, and Duff approve it.

Lets say it is a song for which the first scenario above is the split of the song ownership.

This is how the moneys would be split:

Sanctuary:? $400,000 -? (of this $200,000 goes towards paying down Axl's advance)
Slash:? $150,000
Izzy:? $150,000
Duff:? $150,000
Steven:? $150,000

this is ALL SPECULATION on my part of how this stuff works based on various informaton and articles i have read
i'm sure it's way more complicated...? ?but the idea i'm formulating is that percentage credit = percentage ownership = percentage of $$

as far as controllng rights - it seems clear that those are held by Axl Sanctuary/Slash/Duff
but the value of the publishng rights (the money) is not equal.... and does not exclude Izzy/Steven or anyone else who contribtued to the song(s) compositon.

for 19 million that deal would have to include a lot more than just axl's 3rd of the partnership

i think maybe sanctuary will receive axl's royalties from future  back album's sold also

think about 19 million dollars, there is no way u could make up that kind of money

say u get a million for a commercial split 3 ways they would get 333,000
 movie soundtracks dont pay that much

so i think there has to be more to this deal

either they will get all future royalties of axl's

or axl sold them the entire publishing which isnt legal forhim to do.

its gonna be interesting to see what happens.

just what do you think the "1/3rd" of the partnership is comprised of?

I believe it is just his ONE of THREE votes
money wise i believe they are banking on the value of his portion of the copyrights on the songs


at whatever cut off point is determined - yes, i believe that the publisher receives the mechanical licensing fee per unit sold (whatever axl's portion of that is that would have been paid to him say for a copy of AFD sold (say next month) will go to Sanctuary - and i believe half of that goes towards paying down Axl's advance.
Axl will still receive the same way he has before his money/rights as the recording artist on the album.
the deal only covers the songwriting rights so Axl still recieves his recording artist royalties from the recording company.

same goes any new material covered under this deal


and apparently Sanctuary IS in the proper position to know what its worth...
in fact they say the expect to earn 50 MILLION pounds ... so its 'worth' even more than "19 million"


the press release/statement does say his 'contributions' and the comments that Lesty posted by the sanctuary record guy on her local radio station which includes the words "most of appetite" would indicate that the deal is for only part of - not the eintire publishing rights of the group's work.? Also recall the comments from Slash's management:?
Slash then went on to say that... his share ... is "too valuable".

contribution... most... share....? ? does not equal "all"? ;)

I am pretty sure that, when i asked Tommy in Oslo, what recordcompany they should use, he said Sancturay!!

This is confusing.  No wonder Duff says he wants to write a book about the music industry, to explain all this to new bands.  It's enough to make you cry.

And does this impact on CD?  That's what I'm worried about.

I didn't had the time to read the whole document Jonx posted i can analise over the weekend if you think it's worth, it would be interesting to read the original agreement were Slash and Duff give Axl full onership of the name GNR and presented as exhibit A.
what they're claiming is breach of this agreement by Axl, basicaly.
But they do agree in the claim that Axl is full owner of the name GNR and everything produced under that name after 1995, it's all about the old songs, in the end they require a judge to rule that ownership of the name doesn't mean ownership of the "products" done under the name, therefor "no veto vote" for Axl on all rights to ?the "product" meaning songs, prior to 95, but veto vote for Slash/duff. More interesting Duff is head of the pleintifs but it's stated then while the initial agreement worked Axl and ?Slash had decise vote if agreeing, duff would work only if they come to a dead lock.
It all depends on what's determined ?on exhibit A, on the matter ,and the interpretation of the judge, i'm gessing that the request for an injuction was not allowed if it was Axl couldn't had made the deal with sanctuary or it would be a serious offense to the court, jugdes don't like that at all...

feb

Yes the deal includes axl's songwriting/composing rights to CD

if for some reason the deal as it stands were affected - it would have to be re-done/revised before CD could be published/released.

Considering GH release didn?t require any approvals from SLASH, Duff and Axl of the partnership
I thought it should be the natural conclusion. : ok:

Oh God.  No.  Please...just...make it stop.

QUEEN BIG IN THE ROCK CANON 
The following is taken from an article about Sanctuary Music Groups in The Times:

Sanctuary said that it did expect to generate about ?50 million from exploiting Guns N? Roses hits through film soundtracks, cover versions and their use in advertisements.

Deke Arlon, Sanctuary?s head of publishing, said: ?After The Beatles and Queen there doesn?t come much bigger in the rock canon than Guns N? Roses. We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history.?

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

Sanctuary has also secured the rights to Chinese Democracy, the new Guns N? Roses album and all future Rose material. However, the album has no release date 12 years after work began. The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producers.

Brian May contributed to sessions for G n'R's long waited Chinese Democracy album several years ago. It is unclear whether any of his recordings will be used.
 
http://www.queenonline.com/news_item.php?article=1443192

As to The Times article, I was wondering about a few trifles.
years.....
Jolly good!
And They heard how Axl felt through his lawyers?

Is ?6 million = ＄8 million? Or 13million?  Numbers always confuse me.

The effort has cost other labels ?6 million
the total cost makin new music, regardles of labels is reportedly 13 million

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

so sanctuary cannot whore out music as they wan't, as they have 2 follow the terms axl and sanctuary agreed on in the contract, when using the material

Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan. so he's "interest" or requests in terms of use is covered in the contract? :)

at least thats what i read out of this,
good news, the music is done, issues regardin publsihin and legalities is done only artwork left? ?:beer:
 

Quite the contraries. IMO the articles read

The effort has cost labelS (Geffen +?)other than Sanctuary ?6≒$11 million   ------The Times(Feb '05)
The effort has cost a label (Geffen) $13 million                                               -------Reuters(March '04)
My bad,   ?6 is≒$11 actually :P

that 13million report came out from a news item of Reuters on the GH suit.

Geffen officials had no further comment on the dispute. But a source familiar with the situation said the label has been waiting seven years for Rose to deliver "Chinese Democracy" and has poured $13 million into production of that album after repeated promises that he was about to finish the project.

the source was as reliable as "a source familiar with the situation". we may as well take the other words "the Anonymous informant" told Reuters with a pinch of salt.

And what are other labelS?
Anyway, they can?t leave out Geffen's contribution to the effort, can they?

?The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producersthats right from the article :P who knows? a lot of money 4 sure :greedy:

Axl's Alienating Deal

by Charlie Amter
Feb 2, 2005, 7:35 AM PT



Has Axl Rose been studying How to Lose Friends and Alienate People?

The famously reclusive rocker signed a multimillion-dollar publishing deal last month with the Sanctuary Group--much to the chagrin of former Guns N' Roses bandmates not in on the deal.


The nearly $20 million dollar publishing deal with Sanctuary, announced late last week, spans GNR's entire back catalog, including such megahits as "Sweet Child of Mine" and "Welcome to the Jungle."

Sanctuary Group, which is currently expanding its publishing arm, also works with artists such as KISS, Morrissey and Lou Reed. Rose's deal with the company's publishing unit, Sanctuary Group PLC, will also cover potential future royalties from forthcoming material, should his comically long-delayed GNR record, Chinese Democracy, ever receive airplay upon its theoretical release.

Warner/Chappell previously looked after the band's publishing interests.

The original members making up Guns N' Roses drifted apart in the mid-1990s--leaving the band's legacy perennially in dispute between former members Slash, Duff McKagan and Izzy Stradlin (Slash and Duff now play in Velvet Revolver) and Rose, who continues to play (or not play as is more often the case) under the GNR banner.

Slash and McKagan filed a still-pending lawsuit against Rose in 2004 over who controls the rights to GNR's money-generating back catalog. The band's studio albums have all gone multiplatinum and its songs are among the most-requested in the publishing biz. GNR tunes recently turned up--along with Axl's vocal acting talents--in 2004's biggest videogame release, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, was caught unaware of the deal, per an Associated Press report Tuesday.

Miskel claims Rose, Slash and Duff are part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement."

Although Rose seems to be acting on his own in signing the new GNR deal, Miskel says the "November Rain" singer has no authority to do so.

However, it's possible the singer was only signing a deal for his portion of GNR publishing, according to music publishing sources.

Meanwhile, Tommy Stinson, sometime GNR bassist and former member of Minneapolis rock legends the Replacements, told the New York Daily News last week that the revamped GNR is nearly finished with Chinese Democracy.

But fans of the band long ago learned not to hold their breath regarding news of an imminent release of any new GNR studio set.

Despite the band's open feuding, Duff, Slash and Rose joined up last year to sue Universal to block the release of Greatest Hits. The band lost, and the album wound up debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and going platinum.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,15830,00.html





/jarmo

he mentiones izzy, but izzy hasn't anything to say in this case right?  ???

ya think!   :D
 ::)

well... suppose we should be glad they acknowledged the obvious  :hihi:

Yeah, this writer is a bit better than Kerrang one. : ok:

some same old stuff from mtve.com

Axl Rose is about to become an even richer man thanks to a multimillion-dollar publishing deal he recently signed with the Sanctuary Group. The deal covers Guns N' Roses' back catalog as well as any future material Rose might put out (think the long-awaited album "Chinese Democracy"), according to The Associated Press. A lawyer for Duff McKagan ? who, along with fellow former GN'R member Slash sued Rose last year to determine who controls the rights to the old Guns songs ? told the AP he was surprised by the deal, given that "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement."