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Title: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 14, 2005, 11:12:06 PM this is for those who shit on bon jovi and call Jon? untalented etc etc etc that say jon sucks and other bands are better etc. if someone can find better lyrics let me know, i just chose two at random
MAN IN THE BOX alice in chains I'm the man in the box Buried in my shit Won't you come and save me, save me [CHORUS] Feed my eyes, can you sew them shut Jesus Christ, deny your maker He who tries, will be wasted Feed my eyes now you've sewn them shut I'm the dog who gets beat Shove my nose in shit Won't you come and save me, save me WE DIE YOUNG alice in chains Scary's on the wall Scary's on his way Watch where you spit I'd advise you wait until it's over Then you got hit And you shoulda known better And we die young Faster we run Down, down, down you're rollin' Watch the blood float in the muddy sewer Take another hit And bury your brother [CHORUS] Scary's on the wall Scary's on his way Another alley trip Bullet seeks the place to bend you over Then you got hit And you shoulda known better Bon Jovi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Open All Night (lyrics music jon bon jovi I saw you coming from a mile away Trying to hide behind that pretty face Bet my last dollar baby you been bruised Poor little heart all black 'n' blue Last thing you need's another pickup line You must have heard them all a thousand times God only knows what you been through Believe me I been broken too It aches, it breaks, it takes your breath away I've been around that block a time or two [Chorus:] Baby, I don't want to fall in love with you I try, try, try but I can't get around the truth Please don't say my name, give this heart a break I don't want to make the same mistake but it's too late I'll leave on the light These arms are open all night I got your taste in the back of my mouth I want to reach in and pull it out And I'd be lying if I didn't say When you're this close I'm afraid Of the way I'll feel if I touch your hair The way I'll miss you when you're not there And that I'll see you when I close my eyes It's too late, I've crossed that line It breaks, it aches, it takes your breath away I'll still be around come closing time [Chorus:] Baby, I don't want to fall in love with you I try, try, try but I can only tell the truth Please don't say my name, give this heart a break I don't want to make the same mistake but it's too late I'll leave on the light These arms are open all night [Guitar solo] It's 2 am, it's last call, baby. The barkeep's gone, I'll walk you home now Save me, baby [Chorus:] Baby, I don't want to fall in love with you I try, try, try but I can only tell the truth Please don't make me beg, give this heart a break I don't want to make the same mistake but it's too late I'll leave on the light These arms are open all night postcards from the wasteland lyrics by jon bon jovi Tonight the moon is pretty as a brand new rose And the nosey stars seem to know Where everybody goes As poets reach for words With broken motel pens Here's something to hold on to till I come home again Here the days don't have names they got numbers And the nights just seems to dance into each other Sacred lovers are like fire flies each one has a spark Trying to fill the whole where once there was a heart I'm sending Postcards from the Wasteland Following my headlights down the highway in the dark I'm sending Postcards from the Wasteland Postmarked from the state of my heart In care of wherever you are postcards from the wasteland Now before the summer sun gets chased away And all of our tomorrows turn into yesterdays I'm gonna build you that castle I'm gonna write you that song I gotta find the words to say Until i hold you in my arms I'm sending Postcards from the Wasteland Following my headlights down the highway in the dark I'm sending Postcards from the Wasteland Postmarked from the state of my heart In care of wherever you are postcards from the wasteland Tonight I'll meet you in my dreams See you soon. Love, me jon is way more talented than any of u give him credit for! if there are better AIC lyrics, post em!!! but u all will admit that jon isnt some talentless chessey bum, u may not like him but he isnt like some of u proclaim. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tj on January 14, 2005, 11:18:16 PM He's not talentless, but he is cheesy : ok:
...And you should just let it go :-\ Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 14, 2005, 11:25:46 PM how?
thats what i dont get define cheesy? everyone artist has a little cheese hidin somewhere but his writing has drastically improved and is very very good now. I am the DaveGnfnr2k of bon jovi land thats why i dig what dave does cause he is passionate about something and he isnt afraid to put himself out there for what he believes in. i am the same way its more than music to me, the music is more like a brother or close friend and i take offense when people who have no idea dismiss it as cheese when it just isnt so. have they wrote some cheese? yeah but that was in the 80's and its totally not like that now. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2005, 12:00:43 AM Alright. I'm up for this. Let me get my thoughts together here and find some good examples.
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2005, 12:52:37 AM Ok, my favorite lyrics by Alice In Chains are probably:
There are a bunch more but I doubt anyone is interested in reading a ton of lyrics from songs they don't listen to. I think AIC will always have a certain amount of credibility associated with them because, they never fell victims to overexposure, their music was more metal than anything and they were able to seperate themselves from what people labelled as grunge. I think the only reason they are mentioned as part of the grunge movement is because they were from Seattle. Secondly, this might be frustrating to a Bon Jovi fan but I doubt they will ever be remembered as truly gifted songwriters just because they wrote their fair share of "Party songs". Same with the Crue, Winger, and a bunch of other bands from that era. Hell, they may be genius when it comes to songwriting, I don't know but what kind songs these bands wrote before will affect how the world perceives them now. You can't expect people to forget your past. Thirdly, there isn't a whole lot that seperates Bon Jovi from similar hair bands, at least, that's how I feel people perceive them. They wrote similar music, made similar videos and generally, had the same style. I am really not sure how you can argue this. If Jon was, in fact, more talented, it wasn't in the vocals department. The band made a successful comeback because, I will repeat this, their marketing team knew what they were doing. That, and Jon's good looks. They simply knew how to portray themselves, so they wouldn't appear like old, out-of-touch, washed up rockstars, something that alot of comeback bands fail to do. Lastly, who had a greater impact on music as a whole? To this, I say, of course it was AIC. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tied-Up on January 15, 2005, 01:23:37 AM D: I looked it up for you, I got my webster's dictionary right here...
Cheesy: Adjective. 1. resembling or suggesting cheese, especially consisting in consistency or odor. 2. containing cheese. 3. Bon Jovi. I swear. Would I make this stuff up? There's even a picture of Jon Bon Jovi. So that settles it, Bon Jovi is the definition of cheesy. : ok: Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 15, 2005, 01:26:03 AM Ok, my favorite lyrics by Alice In Chains are probably:
There are a bunch more but I doubt anyone is interested in reading a ton of lyrics from songs they don't listen to. I think AIC will always have a certain amount of credibility associated with them because, they never fell victims to overexposure, their music was more metal than anything and they were able to seperate themselves from what people labelled as grunge. I think the only reason they are mentioned as part of the grunge movement is because they were from Seattle. Secondly, this might be frustrating to a Bon Jovi fan but I doubt they will ever be remembered as truly gifted songwriters just because they wrote their fair share of "Party songs". Same with the Crue, Winger, and a bunch of other bands from that era. Hell, they may be genius when it comes to songwriting, I don't know but what kind songs these bands wrote before will affect how the world perceives them now. You can't expect people to forget your past. Thirdly, there isn't a whole lot that seperates Bon Jovi from similar hair bands, at least, that's how I feel people perceive them. They wrote similar music, made similar videos and generally, had the same style. I am really not sure how you can argue this. If Jon was, in fact, more talented, it wasn't in the vocals department. The band made a successful comeback because, I will repeat this, their marketing team knew what they were doing. That, and Jon's good looks. They simply knew how to portray themselves, so they wouldn't appear like old, out-of-touch, washed up rockstars, something that alot of comeback bands fail to do. Lastly, who had a greater impact on music as a whole? To this, I say, of course it was AIC. Now, I love AIC, but that last comment was just plain ridiculous. Bon Jovi at their hight was the biggest band on the whole planet. Not only that, but they managed to transcend different rock scenes and survive for decades and to this day continue to sell millions of records while selling out stadiums. And you wanna talk about "impact on music as a whole?!?!" Sorry, but AIC doesn't even come close. Not only rock bands, but even groups like Destiny's Child claim to be inspired by Bon Jovi. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 15, 2005, 01:35:54 AM thanks dude! finally someone comes to my defense!
listen dude, jons looks had nothing to do with it. facts are if they wrote shitty music like a lot of the other 80's bands they wouldnt have made it. grunge was the anti pretty boy good lookin bon jovi type but the music kept them in the business if they werent great songwriters and didnt have the songs, the looks and marketing wouldnt have mattered for shit. Jon is a master at writing hooks, memorable catchy songs. Plus they always deliver and fans are like a cult for them. who did AIC's influence anyway? I have no idea id love to take an international poll, i think worldwide it would be quite shocking bon jovi may not have had a great influence on music per se but why they are still vital and kicking ass and valid is cause they are a great influence to their fans and millions around the world. that is a rare thing. dont give me this "its cause jon is good lookin" I dont buy that at all. U cant see Jon on the radio or when u are listening to it in your car so obviously the music is great, it has to be or they wouldve ended up in thescrap pile with everyone else. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tied-Up on January 15, 2005, 01:38:38 AM D:
You were so persistent in getting Phil Anselmo off of the survivor game... have you read any pantera lyrics? Try this one: Shattered ? (by Pantera, Album: ?Cowboys from Hell) It's storming broken glass, corpses left in piles Ungracious bludgeonment that breaks the earth for miles Nothing can stop it, the day has come, from below it's catastrophic Freezing, there's no healing families are dying This world is shattered...All shattered Life crushing turbulence, this wrath can't be denied Wishing you could help your friends, standing where they died Echoes haunting, a hollow planet, lacerations, dissected nation Freezing, there's no healing everyone's dying This world is shattered...All shattered Freezing, there's no healing everyone's dying This world is shattered, all shattered All shattered All shattered Cemetary Gates (Pantera, Cowboys from Hell - Phil's vocals are amazing in this one) Reverend, reverend Is this some conspiracy Crucified for no sins An image beneath me Lost within my plans for life It all seems so unreal I'm a man couldn't half feel this world Left in my misery The reverend he turned to me Without a tear in his eyes It's nothing new for him to see I didn't ask him why I will remember The love our souls had Sworn to make Now I watch the falling rain All my mind can see Now is your (face) Well I guess You took my youth I gave it all away Like the birth of a New-found joy This love would end in rage And when she died I couldn't cry The pride within my soul You left me incomplete All alone as the Memories now unfold. Believe the word I will unlock my door And pass the Cemetery gates Sometimes when I'm alone I wonder aloud If you're watching over me Some place far abound I must reverse my life I can't live in the past Then set my soul free Belong to me at last Through all those Complex years I thought I was alone I didn't care to look around And make this world my own And when she died I should've cried and spared myself some pain You left me incomplete All alone as the memories still remain The way we were The chance to save my soul And my concern is now in vain Believe the word I will unlock my door And pass the cemetery gates The way we were The chance to save my soul And my concern is now in vain Believe the word I will unlock my door And pass the cemetery gates Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Aava on January 15, 2005, 01:59:42 AM this is for those who shit on bon jovi and call Jon untalented etc etc etc that say jon sucks and other bands are better etc. if someone can find better lyrics let me know, i just chose two at random OMG! Writing misery, boring love songs doesn?t make anyone talented. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Timothy on January 15, 2005, 02:10:26 AM As an Alice in Chains fan and a Bon Jovi fan ,I'll say that Bon Jovi is the better band all arounf out of the two.Now some may disagree ,and hell thats fine . : ok:
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 15, 2005, 02:27:03 AM there ya go bring other bands in it
Pantera are or were awesome i never said they werent. Did i ever say anything bad about pantera? bon jovi have more than miserable love songs and yes it is talent to convey that type of emotion. heres a great song for u that talks about this shitty state of the music industry called "last man standing" check out these lyrics Last Man Standing check this out for real now come see a living breathing spectacle only seen right here its your last chance of a lifetime the line forms at the rear you wont believe your eyes your eyes will not believe your ears get your money out get ready step right up yeah u come here you aint seen nothin like him, the last one of the breed you better hold onto your honey honeys dont forget to breathe enter at your own risk mister it might change the way you think theres no dancers theres no diamonds no this boy dont lip synch chorus: heres the last man standing, step right up he's the real thing the last chance of a lifetime come and see,hear,feel..... the real thing see those real life calloused fingers wrapped around those guitar strings kiss the lips where hurt has lingered it breaks your heart to hear him sing the songs were more than music they were pictures from the soul so keep your psuedo-punk,hip hop, J Lo junk and your digital downloads repeat chorus. take your seats now folks its showtime hey patrick hit the lights theres something in the air theres magic in the night now heres the band that really plays ill count the first one in i dont know where its goin we all know where its been repeat chorus Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Metallifuck on January 15, 2005, 06:04:50 AM Metallica - And justice for all
One (Hetfield,ulrich) I Can't Remember Anything Can't Tell If this Is True or Dream Deep down Inside I Feel to Scream this Terrible Silence Stops Me Now That the War Is Through with Me I'm Waking up I Can Not See That There Is Not Much Left of Me Nothing Is Real but Pain Now Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death Oh Please God,wake Me Back in the Womb its Much Too Real in Pumps Life That I must Feel but Can't Look Forward to Reveal Look to the Time When I'll Live Fed Through the Tube That Sticks in Me Just like a Wartime Novelty Tied to Machines That Make Me Be Cut this Life off from Me Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death Oh Please God,wake Me Now the World Is Gone I'm Just One Oh God,help Me Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death Oh Please God Help Me Darkness Imprisoning Me All That I See Absolute Horror I Cannot Live I Cannot Die Trapped in Myself Body My Holding Cell Landmine Has Taken My Sight Taken My Speech Taken My Hearing Taken My Arms Taken My Legs Taken My Soul Left Me with Life in Hell Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Slipdisc on January 15, 2005, 07:08:11 AM I'm not the biggest Bon Jovi fan I must admit. However I have to give Jon credit for the way he managed to develop his voice over the years. That said, I really do think Bon Jovi is one the most cheesy bands out there. Especially in regards to the songwriting (lyrics for that matter). I mean whenever I manage to listen to a Bon Jovi album, afterwards it feels like I heard a guy sing the word "heart" at least 6000 times. No, I can perfecftly understand how someone can like this band, but the songwriting really isn't all that.
-PEACE- Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Hammy on January 15, 2005, 08:42:52 AM Bon Jovi are great that much is true, they can be mature most of that stuff though never get's released as singles. They release the catchy ones to make more money simple like it or not, money is good hell i can't blame 'em. Now if you don't like cheese there's gonna be a lot of Bon Jovi you won't like but there is definately talent, maturity and cheese in ample amounts. To deny they are cheesy would be stupid because at times they are but not to the extent of many bands e.g. Poison another love of mine btw. Now i understand why many don't like them, i can accept that, but they do have talent, i feel Richie Sambora showed that in his solo efforts, remember here it's not all about Jon and like i said everyone should check out These Days or listen to the amazing song Dry County. They do have emotion in their songs but i feel people find it hard to find them credible as songs like Livin' On A Prayer have type-cast them for their entire careers just like The Final Countdown did to Europe. At the end of the day like D and myself some people like a wide-range of music, some don't bridge certain gaps though and Alice In Chains & Bon Jovi are 2 very different bands.
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Doc Emmett Brown on January 15, 2005, 01:07:48 PM I think AIC will always have a certain amount of credibility associated with them because, they never fell victims to overexposure, Excellent point, man. If I had one piece of advice for bands, being the nobody that I am, it's that overexposure will cause critics and the public to diss the music simply because they've seen too much of the band. Eventually they will say the lyrics are too cheesy, the look is too blah, etc, etc. Quote Secondly, this might be frustrating to a Bon Jovi fan but I doubt they will ever be remembered as truly gifted songwriters just because they wrote their fair share of "Party songs". yeah, darker songs are treated with more respect than the best party songs. And when I mean dark, I dont mean breaking up with your girlfriend and crying about your achy breaky heart. I dont think it's fair really, but what can you do. D, for me, Man in the box is more about the music & vocals than the lyrics whereas Down in a Hole has awesome lyrics. That said, I also think Jovi's Blaze of Glory is a great song with great lyrics. ;) Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 15, 2005, 06:55:51 PM Quote Secondly, this might be frustrating to a Bon Jovi fan but I doubt they will ever be remembered as truly gifted songwriters just because they wrote their fair share of "Party songs". yeah, darker songs are treated with more respect than the best party songs.? ?And when I mean dark, I dont mean breaking up with your girlfriend and crying about your achy breaky heart.? ?I dont think it's fair really, but what can you do.? Stoned basically already said this but apparently people weren't paying attention. Listen to Dry County, listen to Hey God, listen to My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms, listen to Something To Believe In and then come back and tell me that Bon Jovi writes only party songs or that their dark songs are just about breaking up with your girlfriend. Fact is, they address a variety of subjects. What you guys are doing is the equivalent of somebody who's only heard two or three AIC songs like Junkhead coming in and saying that they write about nothing but getting high and drugs. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Hammy on January 15, 2005, 08:22:05 PM Quote Secondly, this might be frustrating to a Bon Jovi fan but I doubt they will ever be remembered as truly gifted songwriters just because they wrote their fair share of "Party songs". yeah, darker songs are treated with more respect than the best party songs.? ?And when I mean dark, I dont mean breaking up with your girlfriend and crying about your achy breaky heart.? ?I dont think it's fair really, but what can you do.? Stoned basically already said this but apparently people weren't paying attention. Listen to Dry County, listen to Hey God, listen to My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms, listen to Something To Believe In and then come back and tell me that Bon Jovi writes only party songs or that their dark songs are just about breaking up with your girlfriend. Fact is, they address a variety of subjects. What you guys are doing is the equivalent of somebody who's only heard two or three AIC songs like Junkhead coming in and saying that they write about nothing but getting high and drugs. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2005, 08:41:55 PM Quote Listen to Dry County, listen to Hey God, listen to My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms, listen to Something To Believe In and then come back and tell me that Bon Jovi writes only party songs or that their dark songs are just about breaking up with your girlfriend. Fact is, they address a variety of subjects. Reread the post. Nobody ever said that Bon jovi writes only party songs. Quote Now, I love AIC, but that last comment was just plain ridiculous. Bon Jovi at their hight was the biggest band on the whole planet. Not only that, but they managed to transcend different rock scenes and survive for decades and to this day continue to sell millions of records while selling out stadiums. And you wanna talk about "impact on music as a whole?!?!" Sorry, but AIC doesn't even come close. Not only rock bands, but even groups like Destiny's Child claim to be inspired by Bon Jovi. You must be fucking kidding me. I don't mean "who made the biggest impact on people's wallets". Bon Jovi might have inspired some bands here and there. AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in metal, it helped define the a large part of a decade in terms of rock music. This discussion can continue for pages and pages, I doubt that it can change anybody's point of view. I don't think Bon Jovi is as talented as you claim him to be, I really don't see how you can change my mind. I also don't see how I can change yours. I don't see as much depth in his music as I do in AIC, and I doubt I will ever take them very seriously. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 15, 2005, 09:07:43 PM im not trying to change peoples minds and convert everyone to be a bon jovi fan
that isnt what im doing. im just trying to make people realize that there is way more to bon jovi than a few cheesy rock songs they did and are known for. There are so many bands i dont like but i give them credit for their talent and what they do. i cant really stand U2 but i would never come on here and say they suck or are talentless or what have u, same with so many other bands. I am mainly arguing that they are talented songwriters and musicians *u dont have to like them or be a fan* but sayin they are the only band of that period to survive is only cause of a marketing team or jon's looks are very misguided untruths. Bret Micheals was considered a very attractive lady's man frontman, no disrespect to poison fans but did they sell a hundred million records? are they still a driving force in music today? just like no one can convince me that the only reason they sell out stadiums and arenas today is out of nostalgia. Nostalgia is a novelty when bands go away for a super long time and come back bon jovi have been touring and releasing albums pretty regulary this decade, and their concert attendance is always or very close to max capacity. U dont have to like them but dont judge them on a few songs. that isnt fair to do that to any band. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2005, 09:58:59 PM Bon Jovi sold a ton. I give them credit, I'm not saying it's an easy thing to do. However, I don't see the correlation between their commercial success and the beauty in their music. Maybe I'm deaf, but the music doesn't move me. It might have a profound effect on someone else and I accept that. If it means alot to someone, who am I to tell them it shouldn't?
Also, you can't look at record sales. Bon Jovi writes catchy music, catchy music sells. Alot of bands do not. With some bands, it's not part of their goal to write a catchy hook. By the way, those who haven't heard much of Layne Staley, I strongly suggest getting Long Day Gone by Mad Season. I think Bi Polar has mentioned this band in another thread. If you dl it and happen to hate it, let me know, if you love it, also let me know. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 15, 2005, 11:19:52 PM Quote Listen to Dry County, listen to Hey God, listen to My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms, listen to Something To Believe In and then come back and tell me that Bon Jovi writes only party songs or that their dark songs are just about breaking up with your girlfriend. Fact is, they address a variety of subjects. Reread the post. Nobody ever said that Bon jovi writes only party songs. Quote Now, I love AIC, but that last comment was just plain ridiculous. Bon Jovi at their hight was the biggest band on the whole planet. Not only that, but they managed to transcend different rock scenes and survive for decades and to this day continue to sell millions of records while selling out stadiums. And you wanna talk about "impact on music as a whole?!?!" Sorry, but AIC doesn't even come close. Not only rock bands, but even groups like Destiny's Child claim to be inspired by Bon Jovi. You must be fucking kidding me. I don't mean "who made the biggest impact on people's wallets". Bon Jovi might have inspired some bands here and there. AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in? metal, it helped define the a large part of a decade in terms of rock music. This discussion can continue for pages and pages, I doubt that it can change anybody's point of view. I don't think Bon Jovi is as talented as you claim him to be, I really don't see how you can change my mind. I also don't see how I can change yours. I don't see as much depth in his music as I do in AIC, and I doubt I will ever take them very seriously. I don't really care about changing your mind. I'm just pointing out that you are wrong. You said that AIC made a greater impact on "music as a whole," which is just plain wrong. This is not a subjective opinion thing. Bon Jovi has had widespread impact throughout rock music and even beyond it, while you yourself admit that AIC's impact was limited to rock, particularly grunge and metal. You claim that "AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in? metal" but in an earlier post you said that AIC "were able to seperate themselves from what people labelled as grunge." Which is it? Were they "heavily associated" or were they "able to seperate themselves" from the grunge movement? And if being heavily associated with a movement is supposed to be evidence of a band's great impact on music, then surly AIC association with grunge should have no bearing on this argument because, as you wrote earlier, "the only reason they are mentioned as part of the grunge movement is because they were from Seattle." So you conceded that their association with grunge was artificial, but then you still tried to pass it as evidence that they've had a greater impact on music :confused: It's hard to be convincing when when you shoot down your own arguments ::) Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2005, 12:30:38 AM I don't think AIC should be considered grunge. In my latter post, I didn't specifically mean and never said that they were heavily associated with the grunge movement, maybe you just assumed, because I never viewed them as that. Having said that, I think Alice in Chains was one of the most important bands of the ninetees (once again, not necessarily related to grunge) because it truly helped define metal music throughout the decade, which is a movement, would you not agree?
Dude, please tell me what kind of "widepsread impact Bon Jovi had on rock music and beyond it". Are you fucking joking me? And don't even think about giving me their record sales or concert numbers. I don't give a shit that someone across the world might have their poster on the wall, or the fact that Jon might have his face on the cover of some international magazines. I want to know what impact they had on the music, not the media. If you are right about one thing, its probably about the "beyond" part because Bon Jovi probably had a greater impact on Pop music than on anything remotely rock. I am really curious as to how you're going to answer this, because I am really not interested in a quote from Beyonce. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tied-Up on January 16, 2005, 01:04:51 AM If we are going to consider album sales or commercial success a "widespread impact on rock music" - then we mustn't forget about the incredible inpact N'Sync, the Backstreet Boys, and Britney Spears have had on the music industry as well. :rofl:
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: KeVoRkIaN on January 16, 2005, 01:18:42 AM Oh god this reminds me of SLCPunk during the US presidential election! We all know where you stand D! - No offense SLC
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 16, 2005, 01:26:20 AM if i can be honest for a minute, in terms of influence on music, who would want to influence the shit thats out today?
i mean honestly oh yeah but i do have one big thing bon jovi influenced they influenced the entire MTV unplugged with their performance on the VMA's when they played Livin on a prayer and dead or alive with just jon and richie, two acoustic guitars there success with Wanted Dead or alive as an acoustic driven song sparked other bands to follow suit with acoustic songs of their own i dont remember much about the 80's but Bon Jovi opened the door for the "every rose has its thorns,heaven, some of the other acoustic ballads in the 80's they showed that a rock band could use two acoustic guitars and let the songwriting shine through. so yeah they influenced a lot. also what band didnt try to copy Jon Bon Jovi's hairstyle? ok ok that has nothing to do with the actual music Just because someone isnt famous doesnt? mean they werent influenced musically Look at all around the world where they have played, i bet they've influenced a lot of people to pick up an instrument or to listen to other artists. i can almost guarantee if u take some foreign countries that have just in the last 20 years or so got opened up and allowed to listen to music, i guarantee bon jovi is very high on their list. its not about how complex something is, its how it relates to other people i cant relate to some things, like some GNR stuff about drugs and alcohol i cant relate cause ive never danced with mr brownstone or moved to a big city or rode the nighttrain but? a song like Everyday by Bon jovi i can relate too, a song like bounce i can relate too, cause ive faced huge tragedies and am fighting an uphill battle chasing my dreams and bon jovi songs are inspirational about not givin up, believing in yourself that may be cheesy to some but its been a lifesaver for me so im sorry i take it personal so much but when something has been the only thing and only inspiration to continue on with life it becomes more than music, it becomes a whole nother animal think of a horrible time in your life and the music that got u through thats why i will never turn my back on bon jovi,GNR,PRince and the chili peppers without their music, i may not have came out the otherside. so i guess thats why even though i can never change anyone's mind, i almost feel compelled to keep up the fight. hell its the least i can do considering all theyve done for me......... Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 16, 2005, 01:53:31 AM I don't think AIC should be considered grunge. In my latter post, I didn't specifically mean and never said that they were heavily associated with the grunge movement, maybe you just assumed, because I never viewed them as that. Having said that,? I think Alice in Chains was one of the most important bands of the ninetees (once again, not necessarily related to grunge) because it truly helped define metal music throughout the decade, which is a movement, would you not agree? So when you said "AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in? metal," what movement were you referring to? That sentence becomes a grammatical mess if indeed you were referring to a metal movement. Not to mention that it wouldn't fit in the context. It seems like you're changing your story once again to fit your desired argument. Dude, please tell me what kind of "widepsread impact Bon Jovi had on rock music and beyond it". Are you fucking joking me? And don't even think about giving me their record sales or concert numbers. I don't give a shit that someone across the world might have their poster on the wall, or the fact that Jon might have his face on the cover of some international magazines. I want to know what impact they had on the music, not the media.? If you are right about one thing, its probably about the "beyond" part because Bon Jovi probably had a greater impact on Pop music than on anything remotely rock. I am really curious as to how you're going to answer this, because I am really not interested in a quote from Beyonce. The list of bands who were inspire by BJ is quite long. There's the obvious 80s "hair bands" like Firehouse that grew out of Bon Jovi; there's a ton of these. Then there's current rock stuff including ?pop rock and punk rock bands like the Marvelous 3, SR-71, and the Goo Goo Dolls. There are numerous european metal and melodic rockers such as Nordica. Beyond rock, there's also pop artists like Pink, a number of pop song writers like Max Martin and Anreas Carlson, and Destiny's Child. Those are just a few off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many others. Now, what has AIC's impact been? And don't forget you're talking "impact on music as a whole." So I'd like to hear about more than the obvious bands like Godsmack. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Hammy on January 16, 2005, 06:32:31 AM bon jovi have been touring and releasing albums pretty regulary this decade, and their concert attendance is always or very close to max capacity. That's what they like about these college girls, they keep getting older, but the college girls stay the same age :rofl:Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 17, 2005, 12:52:19 AM Quote So when you said "AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in metal," what movement were you referring to? That sentence becomes a grammatical mess if indeed you were referring to a metal movement. Not to mention that it wouldn't fit in the context. It seems like you're changing your story once again to fit your desired argument. Oh my goodness. I meant "AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in metal". As in they had an impact commerically but stayed true to their roots at the same time. This isn't about me changing my story. My story is the same, its about you being anally retentive and dissecting every sentence and analyzing it like it was a Shakespeare play. Quote The list of bands who were inspire by BJ is quite long. There's the obvious 80s "hair bands" like Firehouse that grew out of Bon Jovi; there's a ton of these. Then there's current rock stuff including pop rock and punk rock bands like the Marvelous 3, SR-71, and the Goo Goo Dolls. There are numerous european metal and melodic rockers such as Nordica. Beyond rock, there's also pop artists like Pink, a number of pop song writers like Max Martin and Anreas Carlson, and Destiny's Child. There is a difference between influencing a number of artists and helping shift the rock and metal scene towards a different side of the spectrum. If you were to take any modestly famous band, you could probably find thousands of individuals who are inspired by their music around the globe. This isn't what this is about. Quote if i can be honest for a minute, in terms of influence on music, who would want to influence the shit thats out today? Well, for one, Eddie Vedder would. Because you know, Creed was the biggest band at one point. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 17, 2005, 01:41:48 AM Oh my goodness. I meant "AIC was heavily associated with a movement,? as well as having its roots in metal". As in they had an impact commerically but stayed true to their roots at the same time. This isn't about me changing my story. My story is the same, its about you being anally retentive and dissecting every sentence and analyzing it like it was a Shakespeare play. Your claim is becoming more convoluted than a twister. But, sure, whatever you say :-\ There is a difference between influencing a number of artists and helping shift the rock and metal scene towards a different side of the spectrum. If you were to take any modestly famous band, you could probably find thousands of individuals who are inspired by their music around the globe. This isn't what this is about. Here you go changing your story again. No matter what evidence people throw at you about BJ's influence, you make up some lame excuse as to why it doesn't count and some other standard should be used. Before we weren't supposed to talk about their commercial success or about their longevity, now we aren't supposed to talk about the other artists they've impacted. No matter what we throw at you, it automatically becomes irrelevant according to you, simply because it goes against your point. Do you realize how pathetic and childish this is? And if AIC was responsible for shifting rock and metal in the 90s, I'm not sure you wanna brag about it considering the sorry state that rock, and especially metal, was in during the 90s. Finally, I dont' know why you now keep reverting to talking about AIC's impact on rock and metal, when your initial claim was that AIC had a greater impact than BJ on "music as a whole." I'm still waiting to hear about AIC's impact on music beyond rock... Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 17, 2005, 02:19:58 AM Quote So when you said "AIC was heavily associated with a movement,? as well as having its roots in? metal," what movement were you referring to? That sentence becomes a grammatical mess if indeed you were referring to a metal movement. Not to mention that it wouldn't fit in the context. It seems like you're changing your story once again to fit your desired argument. Oh my goodness. I meant "AIC was heavily associated with a movement,? as well as having its roots in metal". As in they had an impact commerically but stayed true to their roots at the same time. This isn't about me changing my story. My story is the same, its about you being anally retentive and dissecting every sentence and analyzing it like it was a Shakespeare play. Quote The list of bands who were inspire by BJ is quite long. There's the obvious 80s "hair bands" like Firehouse that grew out of Bon Jovi; there's a ton of these. Then there's current rock stuff including? pop rock and punk rock bands like the Marvelous 3, SR-71, and the Goo Goo Dolls. There are numerous european metal and melodic rockers such as Nordica. Beyond rock, there's also pop artists like Pink, a number of pop song writers like Max Martin and Anreas Carlson, and Destiny's Child. There is a difference between influencing a number of artists and helping shift the rock and metal scene towards a different side of the spectrum. If you were to take any modestly famous band, you could probably find thousands of individuals who are inspired by their music around the globe. This isn't what this is about. Quote if i can be honest for a minute, in terms of influence on music, who would want to influence the shit thats out today? Well, for one, Eddie Vedder would. Because you know, Creed was the biggest band at one point. when i used that same point as to why vedder should win the front man of the 90's everyone bashed me over it. make up your minds what is relevant and what isnt. what does vedder have to do with AIC's or bon jovi? Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Izzy on January 17, 2005, 08:19:12 AM :rofl:
Bon Jovi better than Alice in Chains? Sure, whatever. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: John Daniels on January 17, 2005, 01:19:45 PM :rofl: Bon Jovi better than Alice in Chains? Sure, whatever. same.. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: BP on January 17, 2005, 02:28:35 PM Same.
I'm guessing Captain O' has been around the scene age wise. I understand every single word he says. Props to you cuzzz this thread sux? ;D? ?sort of silly. whats there next commercial marketing campaign? but my final comparison comes down to .... ART For Alice in Chains >> You had Jerry Cantrell & layne Staley scratching & crawling to write there own songs. Scratching at there roots (ie. Blues)? &? mixing & presenting & sweating with an original sound of Metal Tonal Bliss. I believe for art... you have to suffer to scrape your insides out onto the canvas. Work Hard. Dude...? Some think Jovi & Richie wrote there hits = Bullocks ! They hired a fucking song writer with a side of cheese off the menue & his name is Desmond Child "I got together with Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora, and the first song we wrote was ?You Give Love A Bad Name,?" said Child. "I ended up writing at least 10 cuts with them, including the hits ?Livin? On A Prayer,? ?Bad Medicine? and ?Keep The Faith.?" He also wrote "La Vida Loca" for Ricky Martin. You are singing along the lyrics of this man. Don't fool yourself.? Oh the picture is your lyric writer (that made pop star jon famous) with Ricky Martin http://www.songwriteruniverse.com/childmartin.jpg -BP Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 17, 2005, 04:28:29 PM How predictable?!?!?? You don't have a point, so you change the tune ... again! You guys are pathetic. I was never arguing that BJ was a better band than AIC. That's a subjective personal opinion issue and it depends on a person's taste. I love both BJ and AIC's music. It happens to be the case that I like BJ a little better, but I completely understand why others would like AIC better : ok:
The issue that Captain Obvious brought up was that AIC had a greater impact on music as a whole than BJ and I have yet to see any evidence as to how AIC's impact on music as a whole was greater than BJs. That's all. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other. Do you guys see the difference? Now, about the involvement of other writers. First of all, it's not just Desmond Child, it's also Max Martin, Andreas Carlson, Diane Warren and others. The difference between Rikki Martin and Bon Jovi is that BJ co-writes songs with other writers, while Rikki Martin has it done for him. There's huge difference! And Bon Jovi DID write many of their hits without the involvement of outside writers. But that was probably just your ignorance, so I'll let it slide. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: BP on January 17, 2005, 04:57:23 PM who said I was aguing with you? It was my first post in the thread staying on topic a bit. BTW don't assume what I know..... I simply didn't feel it mattered to list other writers Jovi hired. My point is that he did, but 'I'll let that slide' o b 1 on the defensive. & to me, that weighs into a group.
BP Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Eazy E on January 17, 2005, 05:00:20 PM Bon Jovi has great hooks and song structure, but I would never argue that their LYRICS are spectacular! ?That's not just taking Slippery into consideration, there were no spectacular lyrics on Bounce either.
Now excuse me for bringing a Canadian band that most haven't heard into this, but if you want lyrics that should ACTUALLY be defended then look no further than the Tragically Hip. ?Here are the lyrics to "38 Years Old", just picked one song off the top of my head, they definetaly have other songs with better lyrics: Twelve men broke loose in '73 From millhaven maximum security Twelve pictures lined up across the front page seems the mounties had a summertime war to wage The chief told the people they had nothing to fear The last thing they'd wanna do is hang around here They mostly came from towns with long French names But one of the dozen was a hometown shame Same pattern on the table, same clock on the wall Been one seat empty 18 years in all Freezing slow time away from the world He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl We were sitting round table, heard the telephone ring Father said he'd tell me if he saw anything Heard the tap on the window in the middle of the night Held back the curtains for my older brother Mike See my sister got raped, so a man got killed Local boy went to prison, man's buried on the hill Folks went back to normal when they closed the case They still stare at their shoes when they pass our place My mother cried "The horror has finally ceased" He whispered "yeah, for the time being, at least" Over his shoulder, on the squad car megaphone Said "Let's go Michael, son, we're taking you home" Same pattern on the table, same clock on the wall Been one seat empty 18 years in all Freezing slow time away from the world He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl And there are VERY few bands that can write lyrics that interesting and still have the song be catchy and enjoyable to listen to. ?None of Bon Jovi's "You had me at hello"s or "I'm gonna live my life everyday"'s can lyrically compare to something like that. And D!!!!!!!!! I am the DaveGnfnr2k of bon jovi land That is NOT a good thing! EVER! ? :rofl: Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 17, 2005, 06:19:27 PM Quote when i used that same point as to why vedder should win the front man of the 90's everyone bashed me over it. make up your minds what is relevant and what isnt. what does vedder have to do with AIC's or bon jovi? Umm..that's exactly what I'm referring to, and I was being sarcastic, dude. In the other thread, you said: Quote who was the biggest band of the late 90's early 2000's? Creed were and who did scott rip off pretty much? eddie vedder for fucks sake scott weiland even use to imitate eddie vedder. and now you say: Quote if i can be honest for a minute, in terms of influence on music, who would want to influence the shit thats out today? Oh my goodness. I meant "AIC was heavily associated with a movement, as well as having its roots in metal". As in they had an impact commerically but stayed true to their roots at the same time. This isn't about me changing my story. My story is the same, its about you being anally retentive and dissecting every sentence and analyzing it like it was a Shakespeare play. Your claim is becoming more convoluted than a twister. But, sure, whatever you say :-\ There is a difference between influencing a number of artists and helping shift the rock and metal scene towards a different side of the spectrum. If you were to take any modestly famous band, you could probably find thousands of individuals who are inspired by their music around the globe. This isn't what this is about. Here you go changing your story again. No matter what evidence people throw at you about BJ's influence, you make up some lame excuse as to why it doesn't count and some other standard should be used. Before we weren't supposed to talk about their commercial success or about their longevity, now we aren't supposed to talk about the other artists they've impacted. No matter what we throw at you, it automatically becomes irrelevant according to you, simply because it goes against your point. Do you realize how pathetic and childish this is? And if AIC was responsible for shifting rock and metal in the 90s, I'm not sure you wanna brag about it considering the sorry state that rock, and especially metal, was in during the 90s. Finally, I dont' know why you now keep reverting to talking about AIC's impact on rock and metal, when your initial claim was that AIC had a greater impact than BJ on "music as a whole." I'm still waiting to hear about AIC's impact on music beyond rock... How am I changing my story? What I am saying now is what I said in the very beginning. Read the sentence as a whole again, don't chop it up into small pieces. This is getting rediculous because we aren't even arguing about Bon Jovi and AIC, there is some sort of miscommunication and it's constantly ending up with me having to repeat myself. "Having an impact on music as a whole" is influencing a shift in the music as a whole, steering it in another direction, redifining what it means to one generation, knowing that that definition will be different from the previous generation's - rather than just influencing a handful of scattered artists. I repeated this idea again, and once again you gave me a list of a handful of artists, missing my point completely. This is what I said in the beginning of the thread and I'm really not sure how I can express this differently. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tied-Up on January 17, 2005, 06:53:02 PM Oh please... what has bon jovi influenced MUSICALLY?? I mean really?? Let's be honest.?
Bon Jovi may have influenced the music industry as a whole, as far as what was being signed to recording contracts... because with the explosion of Bon Jovi came the rest of the "hair BLANDS" (not a typo) of the 80s.? This is not necessarily a good thing, in my opinion.? I mean, I could have lived my whole life without the likes of Europe and their music ever to have "graced" my eardrums.? If not for the hairband explosion, Europe would have likely never gotten signed.? But, instead, I have that stupid introduction to 'the final countdown' forever impressed in my memory.? ?:rant: Now, for those of you who actually like Bon Jovi, good for you.? ?: ok:? Like I've said before, someone's gotta listen to them, better you than me.? For those of us with a different (arguably better defined) taste in music, we see Bon Jovi and his influence/contribution to the music industry as nothing more than the residue that's left on a cheese sample platter ~ Something we could have just as well done without. Lots of people wore Zubaz in the early 1990s too... they thought this was a "cool" fashion statement.? The idea really took off.? It doesn't mean it was a good idea.? I view Bon Jovi and the influence/contribution of Bon Jovi much the same way... just because a lot of people bought into it, doesn't mean it was any good. You can shit in a cd case, and sell it to someone, it doesn't make it anything other than what it is ... shit. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 17, 2005, 09:49:56 PM "Having an impact on music as a whole" is influencing a shift in the music as a whole, steering it in another direction, redifining what it means to one generation, knowing that that definition will be different from the previous generation's -? rather than just influencing a handful of scattered artists. I repeated this idea again, and once again you gave me a list of a handful of artists, missing my point completely.? This is what I said in the beginning of the thread and I'm really not sure how I can express this differently. OK, even when you look at it that way, AIC's influence in the 90s was only secondary. Nirvana was the main player. AIC had lot of metal in them and they wrote and played music that actually required having talent. But in the 90s grunge prevailed and metal got its ass kicked; it even became uncool to be able to play your instruments. Had AIC been so influential, that wouldn't have happened. Fact is, unfortunately, AIC did not have nearly as much impact as the bands that championed mediocrity. It was Nirvana who steered rock in a new direction and redefined its meaning for the new generation. Had it been AIC, music wouldn't have sucked in the 90s. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 17, 2005, 09:56:17 PM Oh please... what has bon jovi influenced MUSICALLY?? I mean really?? Let's be honest.? Bon Jovi may have influenced the music industry as a whole, as far as what was being signed to recording contracts... because with the explosion of Bon Jovi came the rest of the "hair BLANDS" (not a typo) of the 80s.? This is not necessarily a good thing, in my opinion.? I mean, I could have lived my whole life without the likes of Europe and their music ever to have "graced" my eardrums.? If not for the hairband explosion, Europe would have likely never gotten signed.? But, instead, I have that stupid introduction to 'the final countdown' forever impressed in my memory.? ?:rant: Now, for those of you who actually like Bon Jovi, good for you.? ?: ok:? Like I've said before, someone's gotta listen to them, better you than me.? For those of us with a different (arguably better defined) taste in music, we see Bon Jovi and his influence/contribution to the music industry as nothing more than the residue that's left on a cheese sample platter ~ Something we could have just as well done without. Lots of people wore Zubaz in the early 1990s too... they thought this was a "cool" fashion statement.? The idea really took off.? It doesn't mean it was a good idea.? I view Bon Jovi and the influence/contribution of Bon Jovi much the same way... just because a lot of people bought into it, doesn't mean it was any good. You can shit in a cd case, and sell it to someone, it doesn't make it anything other than what it is ... shit. You're right. Your taste is "arguably better defined," arguably being the keyword there. Of course, in me and D's opinions our own tastes are better defined. Art is all relative. And I suggest you get a clue before you start talking about things you don't know anything about. Europe is actually an older band than Bon Jovi. Europe formed in 81 and they were signed to Epic records before Bon Jovi exploded. So Bon Jovi or not, Europe would have happened anyway. Now as far as Bon Jovi's impact is concerned, they did pave the way for pop metal bands like Skid Row and Firehouse, and you can can sneer all you want, but whether you liked it or not, BJ was responsible for that shift. Maybe to you that's a bad thing, but again, that's just your opinion. I don't think pop metal was bad and, apparently, neither did Alice in Chains when they were opening for Warrant. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Captain Obvious on January 17, 2005, 10:01:46 PM Has anyone ever heard of Alice In Chains in its early stages? I've never heard it but I hear it was really really bad. It was way back when all the guys were glammed out, trying to be like Poison I guess. Anyane heard those tracks?
Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: D on January 17, 2005, 11:00:06 PM who would buy shit in a cd case? ::)
alice in chains opened for warrant? :hihi: :hihi: id love to see how many of the "cool" seattle bands were hair bands before they became uncool i bet a lot of those dudes were in hair metal bands but before they could get signed, grunge came out so they switched real fast. i still dont know what makes someone's lyrics better than someone elses if u can relate to them they are great but its not like other "cooler" bands have a whole nother set of words that rhyme that no other band uses. Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: Tied-Up on January 17, 2005, 11:05:03 PM And I suggest you get a clue before you start talking about things you don't know anything about. Europe is actually an older band than Bon Jovi. Europe formed in 81 and they were signed to Epic records before Bon Jovi exploded. So Bon Jovi or not, Europe would have happened anyway. Now as far as Bon Jovi's impact is concerned, they did pave the way for pop metal bands like Skid Row and Firehouse, and you can can sneer all you want, but whether you liked it or not, BJ was responsible for that shift. Maybe to you that's a bad thing, but again, that's just your opinion. I don't think pop metal was bad and, apparently, neither did Alice in Chains when they were opening for Warrant. Europe is a swedish band... they didn't become internationally known until 1986, after Bon Jovi released their debut album in 1984. ? Europe may have sold records in Sweden (and also were selling well in Japan) but they weren't selling records in the states, and if the whole hair band thing hadn't happened... I don't think Europe would have "happened" here in the states. who would buy shit in a cd case? ::) I don't know? Bon Jovi fans? Title: Re: My final comparison, alice in chains lyrics vs u guessed it! Post by: POPmetal on January 17, 2005, 11:28:47 PM And I suggest you get a clue before you start talking about things you don't know anything about. Europe is actually an older band than Bon Jovi. Europe formed in 81 and they were signed to Epic records before Bon Jovi exploded. So Bon Jovi or not, Europe would have happened anyway. Now as far as Bon Jovi's impact is concerned, they did pave the way for pop metal bands like Skid Row and Firehouse, and you can can sneer all you want, but whether you liked it or not, BJ was responsible for that shift. Maybe to you that's a bad thing, but again, that's just your opinion. I don't think pop metal was bad and, apparently, neither did Alice in Chains when they were opening for Warrant. Europe is a swedish band... they didn't become internationally known until 1986, after Bon Jovi released their debut album in 1984. ? Europe may have sold records in Sweden (and also were selling well in Japan) but they weren't selling records in the states, and if the whole hair band thing hadn't happened... I don't think Europe would have "happened" here in the states. Europe signed with Epic records in 1985 and Bon Jovi did not hit it big until late 1986 when Slippery When Wet came out (their '84 debut album was only a mild success and 7800 Fahrenheit was a flop). The Final Countdown was also released in 1986. Either way, the title track is so memorable that there's no way it wouldn't have "happened.' TFC could have came out in 1993 and it would have been a hit (though not as big). |