Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Fellow GNR/VR fans:
I rarely start posts, unless Im really compelled to. Lately Ive been compelled to start a post here at the VR board, because there's something not right here :rant: :rant: :rant:

I wonder why some GNR fans not only not like Velvet Revolver, but that they downright hate Velvet Revolver?! :rant:

Im a regular listener of GNR and VR and I gotta say that some of VR stands strong with the best of GNR. Songs like "STB" and "SMF" and "Big Machine" (can't say BM) and others (please read my review under Contraband Reviews) get me as hyped up as listening to GNR songs like YCBM and PC.
I don't know whether to ridicule these VR haters or just feel bad for them.  :no:
I mean at the same time, I love Axl Rose too and I have faith that he's putting together a great Rock Record. But that doesn't mean he's not immune to criticism when he fucks up, or when he decides to let his pride override the needs of his fans and those who sincerely care for him and his success.
I know an Axl Rose triumph and an Axl Rose failure when I see one. I also know a Duff McKagan and Slash triumph and failure when I see theirs. Without a doubt, CB was a triumph for them. They turned their lives around, they look great, they have families, but they STILL ROCK. They never lost the spirit between them, the chemistry. They are stilll great and they made a great comeback album. They got a great frontman in Scott Weiland. I even know that this album is a trimph when I can play it alongside GNR's classics and get off on both (with GNR its a bit more, but VR still holds its own). The rock fans are licking this up - this album has had great staying power on the charts, shows are selling well. Even if not the same as GNR-level success, its a much better alternative to ex-rockers who are washed up and dying of various ailments from their rock-related addictions.

For those people who are Axl obsessors and who are the most vocally antagonistic about any other GNR member including VR, and who can't see right and left, I just want to say that that stands against everything that your man stood for. Regardless of Axl misguided sentiments on his bandmembers in press releases and on tour (while Slash and Duff have never hit back as hard and have been gentlemanly about it instead), he is a man who celebrates and embodies all sorts of musical inspirations. Ive personally bought several albums based on Axl's recommendations from interviews and stuff. Even if Axl hates the CB because of personal reasons, I have a hard time believing that its because of the music, just as his diehard fans want to believe! WHY? Because these 3 musicians, SLASH, DUFF & AXL once sat in a room for 3 years WRITING SONGS, and listening to songs and picking up all the same influences and musical parts that they liked. AXL IN TURN had this band produce his greatest known music ever, and trusted them to deliver his vision of the ultimate rock band. Since VR and their CB is still based on those influences, that would make AXL ROSE a HYPOCRITE! AXL ROSE is a man who likes all kinds of music, and he'll surprise you with his taste. I owe a lot to Axl for broadening my musical horizons and introducting me to such great rock acts as ELO, TODD RUNDGREN, CHARLES MANSON, PAUL REVERE & the CRUSADERS, ELTON JOHN, QUEEN and a lot more. I would never let something personal get in the way of my taste in music. I even like musical artsist who are anti-Semitic, it doesn't matter in the end, because its about the music. 8)

VR proved in everyway that they belong, that they can still play in the shadow of GNR, which means a hell of a lot, and I don;t like seeing fans doing this to themselves and misguiding others.
So thats all that's on my mind about the subject. Happy New Years, and here's to hoping that VR and NU-GNR can make rock music matter again on the charts and with fans

 :beer:
MNR

I really agree with this post.  It seems there are a lot of people who want to see VR fail and even find excuses for the success the band is having.  It's almost like some can't bear the idea of them being successful without Axl and have to justify their feelings by expressing how much better Axl's new songs are.  Everybody is going to have their own opinion and I know there are people who are more supportive of VR as well.  We used to support all of these guys when they were in GN'R together; why not continue to do so?  It sucks the original band split up and most of us agree on that.  However, we can't deny it or change it, so why not support both of them?  I hope this new year brings success to Axl's lineup and continued success to VR. 

I also agree I mean I love VR and support Axl's GN'R at the same I'm sure Axl is working on a fucking great album that will see the light of day hopefully this year, and VR its nice seeing Slash, Duff and Matt doing something good and doing what they want to do with or without Axl but still I support both these bands rock on VR & GN'R

Fanatism sucks when u take it to the extreme!  I agree with the post  :beer:

good post  :yes:

GREAT POST...i love the new VR Album....its rocks.... :beer:

Charles Manson, yeah...such a great rock act!!? ::)

You are right. He sure did have many followers indeed...he "touched" many lives there's no doubt about that.

Great post.  I think the best way to handle these two bands is to simply support both.  The bottom line is that they broke up a long time ago because they couldn't get along anymore, although I think Axl is more responsible than anyone else (just my opinion).  But I don't hold grudges against anyone that was or is in this band.  They are all great musicians who make great music, whether it is VR, Gn'r, or a side project.  I'm just so thankful for three members of my favorite band to be back together with a hell of a great singer in Scott Weiland releasing albums, touring, and being all over TV and radio.  I was finally able to see VR on stage in November.  And if Axl ever decides to return again, I'll definitely be seeing him and his new band as well, unlike when the 2002 tour was cancelled a week before I was gonna see them  :(.

THanks to the rock fans who actually took 2 minutes off to read my post.
I do like Charles Manson's song that Axl chose to cover in 1993 - "Look At Your Game Girl. The guys had a promising career in music, its too bad that he went "OJ" on his surroundings (I couldn't help myself -I just saw a special on E! about the incident with OJ in 1994.
 :D
MNR

I think MNR is merely stating the obvious.  The breakup was a divorce. It is natural that the fan base would be divided with our heroes. Slash and Duff have turned me off by their actions: the lawsuit, the endless bashing of axl in interviews, and a very mediocre, blase album. I'm glad they got their shit together but not for a second do I believe they didn't do their damnest to prevent Axl from taking the new Guns N Roses to Rio in 2001.

But i have to add that the door swings both ways. For every VR basher there is a complementary Axl basher who chided the new band at every turn; people who erroneously reported that fans left the concerts early out of some discontent, who claim axl uses physical and performance aids to maintain some lost facade of a decade ago. I see it here and in other forums and I believe to merely confront so called Axl fans for their behavior is a very myopic way to address this issue of divorce. As I recall, the rudest fans at the new GnR shows were the ones who would chant 'Where's Slash' while Buckethead ripped out his solo segment. I'm sure VR has it's share of Axl hooligans, but the main point to be made here is that in every divorce, there are those who embrace the father, those that embrace the mother, and those torn apart in the carnage.

Good post. The sad thing for me is that there are many Axlites that solely want to see VR fail because of all the shit Axl takes.  I haven given Axl a fair ammount of shit which he deserved. I was all about Axl and supporting his new shit when rumors of him started coming about in 99. I liked Oh My God, some other stuff. I was listening to the Rock In Rio songs on the net as they were being played that night. Then the more I heard I didn't like, I saw them live and it wasn't that great, and Axl started being a bonehead and causing riots and shitting on fans again. That was enough, I wish him all the success in the world now it's just that this fan is gone. There is too much good shit out there. And you don't see me in GnR boards anymore. It isn't about Axl vs. Slash/Duff/Izzy/Steven/ and Matt. It is not about me being a Slash worshiper which I have been accused of by the likes of DaveGnR2k3k4k. I simply don't like the new GnR because of the music and Axl's antics.  I hated the last Snakepit album too...

Bottom Line is if people want to classify Contraband as Mediocre after listening to it once on the net, it is THEIR LOSS!! The album flat out rocks and I still isten to a couple song sfrom it everyday!!

My latest discovery is the smooth as bass in Big Machine. There is one awesome part in there, I think it's during the "jet set" part. I'll investigate....

ummm, Manson did not have a promising music career. He was a hack who hung out with established musicians in order to get noticed. He lived in one of the Beach Boys' house for awhile. At best, his music was good enough to attract women, but there is little redeeming about it.


Ummm, and how many fans and critics out there criticize axl because they blame him for the breakup, acquiring the rights to the GnR name, and moving ahead with a new band. I don't think you guys can merely toss the blame at the foot of those who really enjoy the new Gnr and/or support axl. There are just as many bashers who originate from the VR side of the fence.

Well those people were Gn'r fans most likely at one point. If they blame Axl for the break up that is their opinion. I don't think there are people over there bitching about Gn'r that were never Gn'r fans or. Therefore I wouldn't say they originate from the VR side of the fence. I mean if you were a huge GnR fan at one time, and don't like where the band is at right now it makes a little more sense than bashing a band like VR which you never even liked. There is definately a difference between that and not likeing  VR because your upset that people don't like Axl.  Axl made his enemies/haters long before VR was ever heard of...

I think you are arguing about semantics here. Orginate may have been poor word choice on my part. My point is that there are a number of Axl basher who now call themselves VR fans.  I'm sure they were GnR fans but at some point they decided that Axl was the main problem /cause of the breakup or whatever reason and now they are the primary critics/troublemakers whenever discussion about  the new Gnr comes up. I understand your point above but I think with this clarification my point should be more plausible.

Mark here is a question for you, why is it ok for some VR fans to hate Axl Rose yet gnr fans cannot hate slash or duff?? Oh I think I can answer that. Its ok to love VR and old gnr but hate the new gnr and Axl yet if baffles people like you that love the new and old gnr but don?t like VR.? Why is it that it really bothers people like you when people don?t like VR? Could it be they might not like Slashs lies over the past 10 years, could it be that they are miffed at him for suing Axl over the rights to the old guns n roses songs that they all have a share of, or could it be because contraband is a very mediocre album.? Take your pick but those are just some of the reasons.?

As for people obsessed, I think you are obsessed with the possibility that people just might not like VR or the album contraband, why does it bother you so much? I am sorry that not everyone has the same taste in music as you but for the love of God do you have to keep making posts about why you are baffled people don?t like VR.

Now about VR being able to play in the shadow of gnr, hell every time someone mentions VR they attach the name guns n roses to it, you would think the official band name is VR with former members of guns n roses.? Slash and Duff sure wanted out of the band but keep milking that name for every penny its worth.?

As for you Tomass, I love how you are always crying about the axlittes yet never once mention the slashittes. Now why is that? Oh I forgot its ok for huge slash fans to want to see Axl fail yet if someone doesn?t wish the best for slash then oh no there must be something wrong or its stupid that people hate VR slash and duffs antics yet you can hate Axl for his antics.

The hypocrisy on this board by certain people continues and it?s funnier and funnier by the day.

I think it is safe to say you are one of the only people on this board who is obsessed with this supposed hipocrisy. I understand though its hard for a guy like you to come around here with an ounce of credibility though given how many times you've gotten egg on your face after all of your "guarantees" for GNR related things that continue to come and go. At what point will you come over to the darkside with all of those that have their eyes open and realize it is possible to be a Huge VR fan, GNR fan, and Axl fan all in one? It is completely retarded that there are people on this board who refuse to enjoy the VR ride given it is all we have for now and the forseeable future, as I think even the most ardent Axl worshipers are starting to realize that the likelihood of seeing that album any time soon/at all is becoming less and less likely by the day. To each his own though, their loss. I wouldn't worry about it Mark.

For all of your talk about hipocrites on this board I would think you are being totally Naive if you don't think Axl would do the exact same thing to those guys in a heartbeat if a lawyer went up to him and told him he thinks there is a way to get more control of the songs and put it to the other guy in the process. You know as well as I do Axl would be all over that if the situation presented itself, and he has shown that through his past actions. Slash/Duff are doing nothing Axl wouldn't do himself or already hasn't done.


This again is totally subjective, for most of the same people who think Contraband blows think songs like OMG, Silkworms and some of the other less than impressive new GNR songs are outstanding. Fans of either faction can easily convince themselve's mediocre songs are better than they actually are, because admitting otherwise would basically go to show that 6-7 years of staunchly defending one side or the other was wasted.

Quoting Naupis a bit here, because music is totally subjective and Slash/Duff/Matt & Axl have torn each other up in the press enough to polarize their own diehard fans. As I said, it goes both ways.

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to hate VR for their actions but yet continue to have little to no problem with Axl's actions?

Dave, I think most of you Axl fans confuse VR fans dislike towards Axl's actions with hatred for the man himself. I think don't hate him but they do hate his actions.

and what exactly are axl's actions to which you are referring? Philly? No one knows what happened there. The Erin-Stephanie saga? Once again we don't know the truth. Is Axl a saint? of course not. But in this divorce, I have not been endeared to Slash, duff, or matt by virtue of their inconsistant accounts of the breakup and their slanderous statements about the redhead. He has at least kept his mouth shut about these issues for the last two years.

Whats been inconsistent?? The reasons for them leaving have been pretty clear for awhile now...Theres more than one lone reason for sure, which is what I assume many fans confuse for inconsistency.? Slash says he left because of Axls musical direction in one interview, and then blames it on Axls behavior in another - what a hyopcrite!? Or perhaps theyre two of many reasons...Most of which Izzy (and Steven) also believes.

But youre welcome to share inconsistencies youve observed.


Again...not sure whats been so slanderous about their comments, but okay...


The last two years.? Within the two or so years prior to that, he talked about the ex-members in, I believe, every one of his high-profile interviews (Im talking about Rolling Stone, not a 5-minute Seattle radio station).? Hes dedicated a fair share of press release space to Slash the "liar."? Then theres the concert rants...So the "last two years" qualifyer youve used is an arbitrary and dishonest device to overlook the fact that, yes, Axl has badmouthed the other members, just like theyve badmouthed him to you.

However, I do appreciate you admitting that your outlook owes a great deal to hero worship.?

The no show-ups (do you think that there is any other great artist on the Earth who wouldn't show up for 2 of his 15 gigs? I don't care what the causes were, cause it's just not hapenning with anyone else.)

Aborted shows and riots

His acting during the performances (to tell the truth he acts like a jerk if he doesn't find everything 100% flawless)

His comments about the ex-members (these were more harsh than Slash & Co's comments). these even includes the BH press release and his words after Finck left

Thinking he is GN'R

Unable to say that he made a mistake (only that his biggest mistake was having too much faith in the betrayers...)

Unable to deliver an album in 7+ years.

edit: I almost forgot about the lack of communication with the fans.

These are the things I don't like in Axl. Some of them are not new at all, he acted like this in the AFD-UYI days, too. I don't hate him, no way, but yeah, I hate some of his actions. But not the man.

But why I am still his fan is his incredible talent and voice.

Egg on my face, how did I ever get egg on my face? I am? sorry but I dont like this albums release date rule my life like some people do.? Like I have always said, it comes out when it comes out.? ? And how can people enjoy VR if they dont think the album is good? Its like someone telling you why cant you enjoy the BSB album.




Yes music is subjectie and that is why people like MNR just cannot fathom.? Godforbid some people just might not like VR and the album contraband. You should go check some non gnr message boards a lot of people do not like VR.? Go figure.

Like I have said before sorry not everyone has your taste and MNR tates in music.


And Mikkamakka sorry Axl didnt not whore himself to the media like slash does, but Axl does not crave attention and doesnt let the media know everytime he wipes his ass like slash does. When Axl has news on the album, he will tell us, its that simple, there is no point of him saying, no its not done yet, or still working on it, what is the point of that?

As for Axls two no shows, one was plane trouble and the other we will never know. Concerts get cancelled all the time, hell VR cancelled a few shows, the only difference is some idiotic gnr fans think its cool to riot when a show get cancelled.

most people don't let the wait for the album ruin their lives but it sure seems like you do

I see you have no problem with giving Axl the benefit of the doubt by saying we don't know the truth but yet you won't extend that same courtesy to the rest. Why?

What bad actions am I talking about? Well, Axl has a boatload of bad actions under his belt. There is so much more than what you mentioned. I admire and respect his talent but he's not the most respectable man in music.

I was more referring to his failure to release an album. You say you were disappointed in VR's album, and that's fine. I just wonder how you can lose respect for VR for their album but yet continue to respect Axl? He is the one leaving all of you diehards desperately waiting for CD year after year, but never comes through. He is the one who never acknowledges your undying support.


Axl has kept his mouth shut these last two years because he's holed up in the studio somewhere. He doesn't talk about anything period. It's not because he has taken the higher road, it's just because he is simply not ready to get back in the press.

When he was in the press and touring, he felt free to talk as much shit as often as possible. You Axl fans had no problem looking the other way when he would go on one of his juvenile rants, but as soon as the ex-members or anyone else for that matter (Conan anyone?) say anything remotely negative towards Axl you all throw a hissy fit. Why is it ok for Axl to talk shit about anyone but as soon as someone says something that isn't flattering to him they are automatically branded an asshole?

When does Slash and the boys ever stoop to Axl's level, telling him to suck their dick? They simply tell their side of the story, which? just happens to be un-flattering to Axl. They rarely ever bash Axl, if they ever do it at all.

I just simply don't understand how so many of you can write off VR as the bad guys, but yet continue to blindly support a man who hasn't done much to earn your undying support.

If Axl fans truly can't get into VR's music that's fine, but it seems so many of you can't get into it because you simply won't allow yourselves due to your Axl fanaticism. I just find it interesting that it's the most diehard of Axl supporters that dislike VR while everyone else seems to enjoy their album.?

How do I let the album ruin my life? I am the one who keeps saying it comes out when he comes out. I dont make threads crying about the album not being out.  Unless that post was not directed toward me. Like I have also said, there are a lot of great bands and albums out there, go check them out. 

It still beats me how someone can really claim that Contraband sucks but at the same time enjoy downright bad songs such as Oh My God, Rhiad & The Bedouins or Chinese Democracy? Well I guess it's all a matter of taste.

I really enjoy GNR's music (talking about the real GNR) including "Axl's babies", but most of the new songs just suck ass. When added that Axl's voice blows nowadays, there really is no point for me to support nu-GNR. I'd respect this Axl's "thing" a lot more if he would drop the GNR name.

Axl hasn't talked that much shit about VR or any of the old members but frankly, I don't see any reason why should he? I thought it was mostly his choice to get rid of the old members by bringing in a new guitarist (Paul Huge) against everyone elses will.

Alot of people enjoy OMG and Chinese Democracy. If you don't like it, then that's fine, but your taste is not some trump argument against someone else's taste.

As for my comments, I stand by them. The people who responded to me have read the same articles that I've read. They know the comments that slash, duff, matt, and scott have made about axl who has not responded even though he had the ability to. We will hopefully hear one day all the petty things these guys have done to each other and the resolution to events that have occurred. I am not jumping to conclusions. I can only respond to the mistruths and slander I hear and it's coming from only one side of the fence. For whatever reason, Axl has continued his work and not fired back at the old guys in public. That will change one day, but who could deny that he was compelled to do so to correct what has been said about him.

Sounds like a cop-out... : ok:

I still dont know what slanderous or inconsistent accounts have been made.  And your "in the last 2 years" clarification is still extremely goofy when you know very well that Axl has "fired" at these guys in the past 3 years, and if he comes out of seclusion, hell most likely do it again...

And what "mistruths" do you think he has to correct?

why is it a cop out? Because I don't leap up and respond to an itemized list of your complaints with my statement. We are close enough to the situation to understand what Slash/Duff/Matt/ Scott statements being referenced. If you seriously don't know, send me an email and I'll send you some links.

And Btw, I don't accept what axl will do in the future as an absolution of slash/duff/matt/scott's vituperations. If all parties have "moved on", I expect all parties to move on.

For fuck sake! Instead of making excuses like "they hate VR cause Axl isnt in it", why dont you accept that everybody has an opinion. Contrabnd was a let-down. Why? Because it didnt live up to their past work. Im not impressed with Scott Weiland either. I wish they had hung in their a little longer and chose someone decent instead of going for a famous person.

Im looking forward to seeing them when they come to New Zealand though. : ok:

VR fans do know that non gnr/axl fans also don?t like Contraband, think they are overrated and that the album is mediocre.  If this album was put out by another band that did not have former gnr members you would all not like it as much.  As for Axl talking about the former members on the gnr tour, here is where the hypocrisy lies once again. Its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl but once Axl does it on the tour he gets flack for it. And we all know since Axl has not fired back over the last two years, once he does, these same people that are saying its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl will be calling Axl an asshole for talking shit about slash and duff.  Go figure.

There are some people who just just totally kiss Axl's ass.  Even though Axl disappears from these die-hards for years at a time, they just don't care.  Axl is the best front man alive today, but that doesn't mean I am going to agree with all of his opinions.  His die hard fans will shun VR to be loyal to Axl, and Axl will give them nothing new in return.

I think alot of Axl fans are enduring the lull in the hopes that the payoff will be worth it. Very few people kiss axl's ass especially after the meltdown during the US Tour. 2002 was a huge disappointment for everyone; I cannot rationalize what happened, but I won't blame axl's craziness for it unless I get proof that he couldn't handle the pressure or underestimated the response from CC for his erratic behavior. I think the new GnR was seriously damaged by the screw up that occurred and as a fan I was crestfallen.

By the time, both sides lined up against the label for the GH suit, it seemed all parties had grown weary of the petty criticisms ; I was hopeful al were motivated to look forward instead of back.   I was encouraged to this end after viewing the VH1 BTM which was not overly critical of Axl Rose and presented the breakdown of the band as failings on both sides.

Unfortunately, the peace was not to last very long. The media buildup to CB's release and the ill timed lawsuit provided the old guys with enough publicity to continue the assault against the redhead, many of the criticisms were overly personal and downright slanderous. At this point, I feel Axl has earned a casus belli against his old bandmates to which he will no doubt continue the verbal attacks whenever Chinese Democracy sees the light of day. As a former fan of both sides, I am let down by the recent behavior of slash and duff ; they should have ushered in this new phase of their career with pride and appreciation for the past.

Wheres this lawsuit publicity coming from, other than you?? Anybody who thinks the lawsuit was filed (or timed for) for publicity is delusional.? The guys obviously have some kind of case, and its a case that is probably costing a lot of money.? You think theyre filing a bogus case so they geta couple brief mentions on some websites?? About the timing, clearly the case was ready to be filed...why would they postpone it?? Because Axl-worshipping, overzealous message board conspiracy theorists such as yourself might jump to conclusions??


Again, Axls just as guilty of "overly personal" insults.? As for these slanderous statements, Im still waiting to hear what youre referring to.? Im not messaging you over it; you brought up the issue, go ahead and back it up.


He already has.? And yeah, hell probably do it again, and youll no doubt continue to ignore or justify his attacks and express disappointment over Slash and Duffs awful comments.?


They have.? Theyve expressed how proud they are of their Guns careers many times.? But we both know youre not really talking about "the past."? ;)

right because some of of just hate Scott Weiland ::)

Booker, once again the only way you can reply to someone is by personally insulting them. I resent your comments in this thread and I have reported you to the moderator again. If you can only resort to namecalling and puerile oversimplifications of someone's arguement to make your point, then there is no point even discussing this with you


I didn't say it was filed merely for publicity. It was however timed to coincide with the publicity run up to Contraband. How many years did these guys have to settle it? Surprisingly, this comes down the pipe right before the album drops. The lawsuit's merit is an entirely different issue altogether.

once again, I resent the disparaging comments toward me in this post. You need some help.



Considering the fact that you have unjustly called me a racist in the past, why would I jump through hoops just for you. You are well aware of the misstatements made particularly by Slash, Duff, and Scott. If you are going to plead ignorance here, we can discuss this off board and I'll educate you.



Your point is what now? You are using what you think I will do in the future as some proof that i am not credible? amazing


I am writing about the past. I don't know what you are referring.

Would you care discussing it with me then? I see you avoided my post. I would like to know what your response is to  some of it. Why do you give Axl the benefit of the doubt for everything he does but you automatically assume the worst about VR? Why do you have a problem with anyone who says anything remotely negative towards Axl but find it alright for him to say what he pleases about others? When has the members of VR stooped to Axl's level of telling them to suck their dick and all the other nonsense he spouted off? Most importantly what has Axl done to deserve your undying support and what has VR done to earn your wrath?

  I would also like to hear you answer some of Booker's questions. Could you provide us with these personal insults? What publicity is VR getting from this lawsuit?

Maybe because there's a wide range of musical opinions on any musical board? Being a fan of GN'R (past or new) doesn't mean you have to like VR. It's simply a matter of opinion. Some people love U2, some people hate them. Same zith Jay-Z, Linkin Park, Led Zeppelin, Shania Twain, and VR too.

I don't really see hatred on the board, but a disappointment for sure. And I think people on the board are split: a good chunk of the members actually like VR A LOT. Some members don't like them (at all?). So be it. Some people (usually the very big fans of VR, even though it's a generalization) hate the new GN'R with their guts and make fun of Axl every five minutes. So be it. That won't make me change my opinion on the new band (which I really like). Lots of people like VR and bought their album on this board, it won't change my opinion about the band or the album.

To respond personally to this thread, I don't "hate" VR, I'm simply not a big fan of their album and certainly wouldn't mention it in the best albums of 2004 (matter of taste, I thought 2004 was pretty weak musically, except for U2). If I had to give a few reasons, I would first mention the main one why I don't really dig VR: Weiland. I don't like his attitude, his voice, his lyrics, and I really don't like at all the way he "moves" on stage. I may have a different opinion if they had a different singer. I think Slash and Duff are great in VR (even though I preferred what Slash did in GN'R) and they're a good live band (seen them on the US tour - had to see Slash and Duff live). Besides Weiland, I would say some songs really do sound alike (just my opinion) and sound unfinished or rushed or whatever.

The guys recreated something new with a new singer, I think that's great for them, but Weiland ain't Axl, and to me he's galaxies away (lyrics, energy, voice - and I've seen them both live on stage) so that's a huge letdown for me. I really do think it's easy to see why people would like them or not. But the main reason is stated at the beginning of my post.

Btw guys, there's no need to get at each other because you have different musical opinions. Keep it cool. There's a LOT more important issues in life than this.

Thats pure, unfounded speculation on your part, and its not based on any kind of solid logic.  VR was doing fine in the publicity department - what did this lawsuit accomplish for them in terms of publicity?  The train of thought behind your speculation is incredibly silly.  We both understand that the lawsuit is probably with merit.  And we both know that it was ready to be filed...Now, if the suit happens to be ready in the weeks/months prior/after VRs album release, do you suggest they delay the whole thing?  And why would they do that?  The answer is: so people like you dont jump to conclusions.  Then you have to ask yourself, should they care what people like you think?  The suit has merit, its ready to be filed - file it.  Why waste time?


You seem to be well-versed in your Duff/Slash interviews, you should know that Duffs only been a finance whiz for what, 3 years at most?  Hes said revently that his newfound financial insight has helped him better understand a lot of GNRs business dealings.  Not to mention that many of the events and blocked deals that comprise the case itself have in fact taken place in the last few years.  And Slash and Duff "reuniting" in this band might have played a part as well.  But I think you understand that its kind of preposterous to imply that these guys knew they had a good case for the past 7 years and were just waiting for Contraband to come out before filing it.


So genuine coincidence (even though theres not much coincidental about it - it has almost nothing to do with Contrabands release) is out of the question?  Youre choosing irrational base suspicion over rational reasoning. 


Jump through hoops?  Youre already responding to me.  If you know what youre referring to, then simply type it in with the rest of your response. 


I am?  Then why have I asked you three times now to enlighten me?

Like I said, Im not messaging you.  You brought up the point, you can back it up or cop out.  Your choice.


Its not what you will do in the future (although I think you know Im right anyway), it what youre doing now.  Its the fact that Axl has insulted these guys numerous times since the split, and youre using these weird time qualifiers to ignore or justify it. 


Well, if its really the past youre referring to, then I just informed you as to why youre wrong.

I don't give Axl the benefit of the doubt. He has some major explaining to do for Philly, but he has damaged his own career more than he's shaken my faith in him producing a great album.


Axl has hardly been as active in the media as Slash/Duff/ Matt. Since the 2002 tour ended, Axl has not said one word about the old band; i am certain his agent has been approached fairly regulary for reaction. As I explained earlier, I felt that there had been somewhat of a ceasefire after the GH lawsuit, mainly because neither party were doing much press. But in the run up to Contraband we have seen many jibes at Axl from the old GnR members. 

As for your question, perhaps you should watch the rerun of the Howard Stern show on which VR performed. Axl is described as a crazy, balding man with scary eyebrows. It was quite a slanderous interview despite matt's attempt to appear unbiased at the end of the segment. In addition, Slash and Duff hosted the Power Hour, I believe a show in Canada, in which numerous questions about GnR and Axl came up. They were extremely bitter over the loss of the name and insinuated that axl had soiled the name of the band; at the end of the segment, they mentioned that lawyers were looking into the events surrounding the transfer of GnR name ownership to remedy the fact that they were swindled out of the rights.


1. I didn't appreciate the timing of the lawsuit, simply because it was filed during the publicity run up to CB and after the appearence of the new GnR band. The major events covered in the suit had occurred several years ago, yet Slash and Duff finally paid a lawyer to look into it. Strange. To me, it seems bitter and desperate.

2. Several statements from VR members have bothered me. In addition to the Power Hour and Howard Stern appearences, there are, among others, the following interviews

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=13175.01

in which Slash effectively blames axl for the band's breakup: "Nobody involved with Guns wants to blame Axl, but there's no one else to blame. That's a tough one. " even though later Slash admits there was a time he couldn't play guitar because he was so doped up on heroine, thus leading credence to Axl's theory that he took control of Guns b/c no one in the band was in control of themselves. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=15203.0

There was another recent interview in which Slash flat out stated that Axl was to blame for the breakup. Misstruths. Misstatements.

Thankfully duff corrected the piece that stated Axl didn't write any of the music for GnR, despite pleas from people in this forum that the original statement was true.


There are others, but i'm a bit too tired now to look them up.


 

Perhaps it is speculation, but much less speculatory than the assumption that Axl wigged out before Vancouver and Philly; that he personally submarined the US tour because of some mental disorder. As for my rampant speculation, celebrities are very media and image conscience. Chalking up the timing to coincidence is very naive. At worst, the suit gives Slash and Duff the opportunity to answer the questions about axl's control over the band, past and present, with the confidence that they are fighting back. As i said, this should have been settled years ago. I believe its existence was a reaction to Axl using, or abusing, the GnR name.
I don't believe they were sitting on it for seven years; but they certainly had no qualms about taking some shots at Axl's ship as they constructed their own fleet.

Is the lawsuit with merit? Well, we have only seen the Slash/Duff brief. Without seeing Axl's response how can you judge how meritous the suit is? It seems very silly to me to presume that their case has founation without seeing the rebuttal.

 ???

Yeah, by Howard Stern?

I dont think Slash or Duff really said anything about Axls hair or eyebrows in the Stern interview. ?Scott made a few comments, though...maybe youre just transferring your anger?


Ah...so this is the "slander" thats hurt you so badly... :hihi:

Why did Slash leave GNR?
Why did Duff leave GNR?
Why did Matt leave GNR?
Why did Izzy leave GNR?

Nothing dishonest about those "slanderous" statements after all. ?:beer:

Statements were made by Scott, Matt, Slash, and Duff, irregardless of what howard stern said.

Scott made the eyebrow mention btw.

Here is the Duff that I know and love:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=648

McKagan was asked his thoughts on the current Guns N' Roses--and Sorum added his two cents. "It's not Guns N' Roses, you know? [Axl] should have probably done his own solo record," said McKagan. "In saying that, also, I do wish him the best. We went through a lot together and I still have a lot of love for the guy. It's a shame that there's a...he's doing a lot to...there's a lot of bitterness..."

I miss that love and tolerance these guys had for each other. My wish was that we would hear more about the great things they did instead of what caused them to fall apart. Petty insults and lawsuits make it hard to remain a fan.

Ive got the interview right here on my computer, and I havent heard any statements made by Slash, Duff, or even Matt on Axls hair or eyebrows, despite heavy baiting. ?Howard says "It does appear that Axl has lost his hair and has some sort oh hair weave."

Slash: "I have no idea"

And Matt actually ends the Axl plastic-surgery/balding discussion with his statement (after Scott commented on the eyebrows), when he could have easily jumped in and carried on.

But some statements they did make:

"Our memories [of GNR] are pretty good" - Duff

"When I left, [GNR] was still kind of cool" - Slash


b. I am basing my feelings on weak foundation.

And I think Ive done a good job explaining why.  And I dont think chalking the timing of the suit to coincidence is naieve at all.  Because when you assess the situation rationally like I did in that post, you start to realize 1) that any percieved sinister plot is just ridiculous.  If they would have prepared a press release and that kind of shit, then sure, youve got something to bitch about.  But they didnt publicize it, and it wasnt really publicized...period.  A few brief mentions on some websites.  Thats it.  2) If there was one time they didnt need extra publicity, it would be those months prior to Contraband.  3) Like I said, most of the instances specified in the suit are fairly recent, just like Duffs finance education and subsequent understanding of GNR business dealings is fairly recent.  Taking these relevant facts into consideration demonstrates that the timing itself isnt a coincidence, but the timing in relation to the albums release could very well be coincidence.

Also...

Youre right...which is why Ive never subscribed to such a theory.  But your comparison suggests that you recognize that both are weak...You just choose to believe one anyway, and thats why somebody might suggest a bias.


As far as I know, the suit hasnt been dismissed, so Im assuming its with merit.  That doesnt mean I think one sides right or wrong.  Just to clarify.

Here is a quote from Will I found interesting:  "Maybe because there's a wide range of musical opinions on any musical board? Being a fan of GN'R (past or new) doesn't mean you have to like VR."

I just wanted to ask the question to GNR fans of the past a question.  If you like the GNR that put out Appetite, Lies, and UYI I&II, how can you not like songs like Sucker Train Blues, Fall to Pieces, and Slither?  These 3 songs are a brand of rock we love and haven't heard in a long, long time.  It must be a matter of absolutely hating Weiland and not giving the man a chance.  I say this b/c the 3 songs I mentioned, musically, have that great old school GNR rock sound. 

I think a lot of the AXL diehards are new fans.  Fans that perhaps were in diapers when the Old GnR rules the entire music scene.  Fans who one day saw a man playing guitar in a KFC hat and thought "Man, that is so cool."  But I think the majority of old GNR fans could appreciate Contraband.  I don't know, mabey I am wrong, but that is my gut opinion.

I have a similar opinion. Just becaue I happen to think the new band Axl has is talented and I think they're capable of doing great things together, doesn't mean I hate VR. I just didn't think "Contraband" was the 10/10 album so many of you thought it was. I still can't get into certain tracks on that album. I also have a "problem" with Weiland. I just don't consider him the great rock n' roll frontman so many VR fans consider him to be.

I've seen the band twice live and I'm supposed to see them three times in two weeks. They put on a great show, that's for sure. But the album still doesn't do it for me.

People just assume that I hate Duff and Slash because I happen to think Axl's not the only one to be blamed for what happened....

We stood in line for about three hours to get "Contraband" signed by the band in London the day after their show. But I guess I hate them. ?:hihi:



I like those songs. :D

Maybe Slither a bit less than the two others

Actually, one of the tracks that I thought "WTF?" about when I saw the title is one of my favorites, "Do It For The Kids".




/jarmo

As far as I'm concerned, I didn't say I didn't like the album at all or any of the songs. The songs you mentioned (especially FTP and Slither) were great live and I think they're good songs. My point though was that you don't have to like VR because you're a fan of GN'R (old and/ or new line-up). Again, I don't dislike the band. I just think I would appreciate it more with a different singer (Cornell for instance would have done it for me, but he's already taken).



I disagree with that statement. I know lots of Axl die hard fans who have known the band before the nineties. I actually don't know a lot of "new fans" (post 95). I'm sure there are on the board but I don't they're the whole base of the new line-up fans.
Like I said above, I don't think the fact that you've liked GN'R for 10 or 15 years or whatever means you're gonna like/ love VR. Sure, Slash and Duff are great in VR like I said earlier, but Weiland is a huge barrier for lots of old GN'R fans who may not like his voice/ style/ lyrics, etc. Personally, I never really liked what former members have done outside GN'R (Snakepit, Ju Ju Hounds, Loaded, etc.), except for VR. But I do think they were good as hell in GN'R and they have come up with melodies/ songs that meant something to a lot of people.

That is fair enough Will.? The lead singer is obviously a huge part of any band.? Weiland is not as good as Axl, and I totally agree with that.? Unfortunately there are not more front men with Axl's raw talent.? I do think Weiland is the #2 or #3 hard rock frontman at this time.? But Axl is by far #1.? That is why I get so frustrated that he is a recluse.

He not even the 2 or 3rd best of all time. More like the 20th or 30th but does that mean you can't enjoy contraband?! to be #20 out of all the singers in the world, most who don't ever make it is pretty damn good!

That is fair. I admit the possibility does exist and is plausible. I appreciate your attention to my comments and the maturity with which you received and responded to them.

In this divorce, it is very difficult to hear these guys use the media to tear into one another. My feelings toward VR are quite fluid; I am hopeful that one day the bitterness I feel towards them will recede and I can appreciate their contribution to a dull, horizonless rock scene.  The current and ex Gunners need to demonstrate respect to all Guns N Roses fans, past and present, by moving past these petty criticisms and the desire to express ill will to one another.

My thoughts exactly.

He is not even the 20th, its is probably near the bottom of the top 100 at best.

not what you were saying before it was official that he joined VR

I think Weiland is really good.  I know he never had the worldwide popularity the GN'R guys did, but in the US, he's been pretty successful for awhile.  He obviously doesn't have the vocal range Axl does, but his voice is pretty good and he's got a lot of charisma.  I've seen him live and he is great in concert.  I think he's one of the better frontmen out there today without question.  He'll never reach the global, rock God status Axl achieved, but I think he probably appeals to a younger crowd more than Axl does.  I'm not saying he's more talented or better in any way.  I think it's based on the fact that Axl is, to many people, a late 80's / early 90's star while Weiland's success and popularity is much more recent.  I'm one of the people who really supports both bands, so don't interpret that as a derogatory comment to Axl.  I'll be first in line when CD finally comes out....

Hold on here!  I said Weiland was #2 or #3 at this time.  Not all-time!  I am not even sure Axl is the greatest frontman of all-time.  I think he is the most talented, but Mick Jagger has contributed more to rock n' roll than Axl.

I completely agree; I'd pick Jagger as the best frontman of all time...

Who the fuck are you to tell people what they like or not? I do believe that these guys have released plenty of albums in the past that people weren't very excited about. People do not pretend to like the Snakepit albums (although I like the 1rst one). You are right, not everyone likes VR..There isn't a band out there that everyone likes.  Just because you think the album is Mediocre as you have said 6 thousand fucking times doesn't make it so for everyone else.. And if you think the only reason the album is successful is because there are Ex Gn'r members and not for the music you are wrong. If that was the case, it would have sold it's 250,000 albums the first week then dropped off the face of the earth. It would not be selling 50-60,000K a week 6-7 months later...

That used to be my least favorite track on the CD besides Spectacle...I used to skip them both, then all of a sudden "DIFTK's" grew on me for some reason and I like it alot. Spectacle is still kind of ehhh. My cousin insists that it rules though so I am trying. There is some cool guitar I guess in there but it's all mixed to low. They probably could have left Spectacle off the CD..

Spectacle is another track that I never skip....  :hihi:

I like Big Machine less than Spectacle.


/jarmo

Goes to show how everyones taste differes.  I was just thinking today how much I love "Big Machine" as I was cranking it on the way to work....I would have to say that it's one of my favorites, at least today anyway  ;) . There is one bass part in there that I fucking love. 

Hah Big Machine is a great song to listen to on the way to work.....kind of fitting!!!!