Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Here's a recent article featuring mister Mckagan.

The Velvet Touch

BY MELISSA RUGGIERI
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Dec 3, 2004


Now here's an unlikely rock star scenario: Duff McKagan, former bassist for Guns N' Roses, bent over a calculus book, studying for a test.

The same McKagan whose toe-curling partying with his bandmates wasn't only legend, but true to the point that the guy's pancreas nearly exploded in 1994.

The same McKagan whose fat-bottomed bass anchored many a locomotive rocker from GnR, but who'd stumble through live shows in a red-eyed haze.

Yep, that's the guy. The one who is now sober as a monk, a husband and father, and two semesters shy of a bachelor's degree in finance.


   
He's also a key aspect of Velvet Revolver, the "supergroup" comprised of other former Gunners Matt Sorum on drums and the inimitable Slash on guitar, plus Dave Kushner as a second guitarist and flamboyant ex-Stone Temple Pilots frontman Scott Weiland behind the microphone. The summer debut of the band's "Contraband" album was greeted with the type of heightened expectation reserved for, well, these days, no one. But it immediately filled a void on rock radio with its brawny rock lightly dusted with glitter. One listen to the rumbling "Slither" or Weiland's frantic spitting on "Do It for the Kids" and the magic among these men is evident.

McKagan knows how lucky they are to be embraced so heartily by a notoriously fickle industry. That gratefulness is in his voice, which breaks up every now and then on the cell phone he's calling from, en route to Detroit last week on the band's tour bus. He also is proud of himself for conquering the types of demons that still plagued Weiland, who spent the early part of 2004 in various stages of court and rehab. But for McKagan, the outlet that called to him most was, believe it or not, college.

"After I got sober, I had to find a lot of things to keep me busy," he says in a gentle voice tinged with a surfer-dude drawl. "One of the things I did was find financial statements from Guns N' Roses from the past 10 years, and I couldn't understand them."

That frustration led McKagan to Santa Monica Community College, where he enrolled in a business class to learn how to read financial statements. After that came a class in stocks and bonds, and a professor who encouraged McKagan to invest in his education.

"So I jumped through a bunch of hoops, got into a school in Seattle and took finance. It was cool because it was a smaller school. I chopped all my hair off and the kids knew who I was, but it was a really hard school, so in classes, people didn't bother me. People got used to seeing me, but the kids were really cool."

After three and a half years at Seattle University, the genesis of Velvet Revolver formed in 2002 when Slash, McKagan and Sorum got together to rehearse for a benefit. Despite his new interest in learning, McKagan never allowed music out of his life. While in Seattle, he played in Loaded, which often toured the West Coast, and also hooked up with other musicians looking to jam. But after spending time with his GnR mates, McKagan pulls out the cliche of "stepping into an old pair of shoes."

But this time, the shoes were new, laced and shined.

"The whole being a rock star thing? All that kind of cosmetic side of it, that really had nothing to do with my decision to [create Velvet Revolver]," McKagan says. As for any concerns about relapsing into old habits, he is even more adamant.

"I'm really secure. I don't think there is a move that I could make that would make me go back there [to drugs and alcohol]. I've been through hell. I'll never, ever go back there."

McKagan, who turns 40 in February, works out every day - preferably kickboxing when he can locate a gym on the road - and is primed for the coming months for the band. Its current run, which includes some holiday radio shows such as tomorrow's "HFSMas Nutcracker 2004," ends Dec. 14, and a New Year's Eve gig in Las Vegas will close out a triumphant inaugural year for the band.

Velvet Revolver's power ballad, "Fall to Pieces," a nod to Weiland's struggles, is No. 1 on Billboard's rock singles chart, but the band will leave its home success behind in January for a tour of Japan and Australia and return for U.S. arena dates in March. McKagan says all of the members are prolific writers, and with a multi-album deal in its pocket, the band already is working on another release.

"It's totally, always a band effort," he says of Velvet Revolver's democracy. "The songwriting process was a band thing with Guns, too, but Scott is around more than our previous lead singer."

There is no bitterness in McKagan's voice as he dispenses with the name of Axl Rose. It's just a simple indication that he's moved on.

Funny. I spent my last year in HS bent over another calculus test. Boy, nice memoires...


So they are finally playing Vegas in New Years...I wonder where did they get that idea from  :hihi:

the interviewer forgot to add probably the second most importent country for music, the  UK to the tour.

than your previous lead singer as in -

1, Axl Rose used to front Velvet Revolver ?
2, or VR is Guns N' Roses, and Weiland is the new lead singer ?

Shut up, Duff.

no i think Duff is right, didnt GNR record the music and then axl would come in and do his parts and listen to what the band did and say whether he liked it or not or if something needed to be changed or what not

i think Duff means that with GNR each member would write on their own and bring those songs to the table and then the band would learn em, axl would write lyrics etc etc etc

whereas in VR all 5 sit in a room together and create at  the same time

i dont think it was meant as any disrespect towards Axl he just was tellin the truth. cant bash the guy for tellin the truth, i mean he'd obviously know.

For "Contraband", they had many of the songs written before Scott even joined.....


I don't know what Duff is talking about. It seems like the story has changed from "one of us gets an idea and then it gets worked on by the rest of the band" into "Axl never wrote that much".




/jarmo

some but not all though and maybe on the new record they are doing it that way.

after the Vh1 thing and after Duff was misquoted on the last songwriting controversy with Axl, i just cant picture him bashing axl to be honest.
so i think he meant something of the sort.


he didnt say that scott was always around, just he was around more, which meant axl probably was never around at all, he probably took the recorded music home and worked on vocals/lyrics etc, came into the studio and did his parts alone with little interaction with the band

so if he did that on every song but scott was in the room and they wrote say 5 songs at the same time, that would still qualify Duff's statement as factual.

you talk a lot

not everyone of the band has to be there for songwriting.

No, but one would have to be there more than the other to qualify for a statement such as Duffs.? So Axl could have written alone/apart from the band and contributed...that wouldnt make Duffs comment untrue.


Half...and of course its possible that Scott developed them with the band.

Duff didnt say Axl was never around, or didnt contribute.? He said it was a band thing.? He simply said Scotts around more.? You mean Axl might have been aloof/isolated/flaky???  :o  Impossible!

Scott worte most of the lyrics, the band wrote the music (instruments)

http://vr.belowempty.com/lyrics.php

As for axl in btm you could see everything was phoned in, extend this, hold this note, etc as axl would say..

I can imagine the new guys all being in the studio when recording not just this guy or that guy finishing each part..

this is the goodshit to me, info & execution


I think everyone analyzes the dumbest  shit.. I have no doubts in my mind they do things as 5 guys unlike gnr where things seemed to be done seperate...

 This is just like a divorce-I agree, everyone is analyzing everyone's comments too much-both sides (Axl vs. Slash, Matt, Duff) are going tomake boasts, even lie about little things-I'm sure we can bring up some of Axl's quotes as well-there is still a lot of bitterness among all of them.

Its a little more like Axl vs. Slash, Matt, Duff, Steven, Izzy, and Gilby

Yeah, we all know Scott spends all his time with the band and has never missed a rehearsal or been late to any appointment. Only Axl manages to do that kind of stuff.? :o

Scott is around more? Compared to what? GN'R used to live together.? :hihi:



/jarmo

Ha scott was late to the first one'' :hihi:

I'm sure duff is talking about the later parts in gnr..

Yes, Scotts similar, we know that.  The discussion is which one is around more for the bands songwriting process.  Duff says its Scott.

And while Scott has the same problems Axl does, his track record is generally better, especially since joining VR/getting sober.  The bands been touring for what, 7 or 8 months consistently?  Not only have they not blown the tour up, theyve missed very few shows.  Axl, on the other hand...Well, thats not even what were discussing.  Its about songwriting.


Compared to GNR after 1988?

:no:
What dont you understand about the gnr recording process? Each member of the band has contributed to each song and the album. Each member of the band has spent time in the studio with the other members of the band. How that differs from VR is beyond me. Do you want gnr to hold hands 24/7. I just dont get this "real" band front....

And a lot of artcles mention how he blows off fans etc, and that he isnt with the band all the time.

then what does
have to do with song writing?

Axl has been with his band writing songs making music since the stone age. What steh difference?so why bring it up.

Let me see VR do a complete full scale arena tour . They wont even sell the venues out. I guarentee it. And thats with an album out.

VR has done the blub route first. Fine. Thats their option. But lets not roll out the red carpet for sold out club shows.
Even though the tour was aborted the band did well in sales, being its not the original band and no album out. They gave u a full set and production every night. SO they didnt blow it. Their planning skillz, and other stuff blew it.

I acknowledged that point didnt relate to songwriting, but it addressed Jarmos point (which, coincidentally, didnt relate to songwriting).


Apparently, how much he actually did with the rest of the band.


Because Jarmo brought up Scotts track record...


Now what does this have to do with my point, about Scotts ability to not wreck their tour or miss many shows?


Na, they didnt blow it.   : ok:

So what about your comments about Axl being isolated and flaky? What's that got to do with his song writing?

You're the one who brought up Axl's personality, which funnily enough, seems to be similar to Scott's personality.




/jarmo

Cant say for sure, but Im guessing those factors had something to do with Duffs statement.


I brought up his personality as it [probably] relates to Duffs quote...you brought up Scotts in spite of it.? Yeah, Scotts a flake...hes also isolated, aloof, tempermental and a manic-depressive drug addict.? Despite these facts, hes stil managed to hold himself together enough to put out an album, tour (missing few dates), and work with the others, apparently.  So bringing Scotts personality proves what exactly?  Unless you did it to praise him?

u axl defenders need to get a grip

Duff wasnt bashing axl or saying it was a bad thing, he just simply stated how its two different things

i mean shit, axl himself admitted how he would phone shit in etc etc

not saying one way is better than the other

but was scott around more than axl for CB than axl was for the illusions, id say yes and thats what duff is tryin to say

nothing bad, no bashing, nothing against axl, he is simply stating what he believes to be factual and judgin by axl's interviews duff is right.

once again it isnt a diss or a bash at all.

The majority of the songs on Contraband are written after Scott joined them

Duff keeps contradicting himself to continue with his non-sense statements.

By saying Axl was not around during song writing I guess he is referring to the Illusions era. AFD ws written while on the road and in that little studio they all lived in as well. He couldn't have been around more as he did when AFD was written.

In the Illusions era it's true that Duff did his parts separetely from Axl ( same as Slash, Izzy and Matt) but as Jarmo pointed out the quote "one of us gets an idea and then it gets worked on by the rest of the band" gives you an idea of how Duff may have contradicted himself these days. Or maybe he was too drunk then to even remember.

Speaking of VR now, it's my understanding, 30 demos were send out to Scott to add vocals on. He did on 6 of them, so he probably worked with the guys in 5 more songs altogether. It's not like he sat down with the guys and jammed/recorded with the rest of the band during song writing either.

As far as new GNR goes, maybe every current members have bullshitted us, but how many times have Tommy, Dizzy or any other member said everyone has been involved in the songwriting? I recall Tommy saying something like ?"Axl accepts ideas from everybody. Axl will take credit in pretty much every song, but everybody has participated. I feel like we have all contributed and we are all equally responsible for the album" Not exact quotes, but along those lines.

Axl may have spent more time in the studio ( adding vocals, producing) but the whole band has worked as a band during songwriting.

Who knows, maybe if the new GNR album doesn't see the light and this band splits, we may see Tommy saying something like " Axl was a dictator, an asshole, and he wasn't around during songwriting..." Who should we believe then?

Duff is not contradicting himself... Not every song is written with the same approach, it could be when they're jamming, one of them could get an idea and bring them to the rest, it could be one of them writing a complete song.

And they said in interviews that when Scott joined them, the songwriting approach took a different form. Scott would be there saying which part he liked or didn't like, there's an old interview with the band jamming and Scott says: "You should extend that intro, I can definetly do something with that". Also Slash's lead on Loving The Alien was inspired by a piano melody from Scott.

There's a big deal here being made about nothing...

Let's assume Duff means what he's accused of saying. Axl didn't write that much. But look at the song writing credits. It's not like Duff is the one responsible for most of the songs either.

Izzy is reponsible for a lot of songs on the UYI albums.

Maybe he should say "Axl didn't write that much. Usually Izzy would bring in a song and then we'd work on it. Except when I brought in two songs and we worked on those".



/jarmo

thats the problem they were a band when they recorded AFD but not when they recorded Illusions without Axl

Thats not what hes accused of saying.  Hes saying Axl didnt work with the rest of the band that much.  He probably wrote plenty, just not with the rest of the band, which might explain something like Izzy not even knowing "My World" was on his record.


So is Slash... :-\  But its kind of beside the point, because anyone of them can be credited as a primary songwriter, it doesnt exactly answer how much time they spent together developing the songs.


Or he actually worked with the band on those previously existing demos (by the way, if there was 6, that leaves 7 more)?  Like we saw in the VH1 special with "Set Me Free."


This isnt about new GNR...

What's so hard to understand.? Scott is around more then axl was, he must be talking of the later days of gnr, the phone in sessions.. "axl sightings were few and far between"..

WHy not go with the idea they are working on another album ,that they will be touring japan and australia, all stuff they said they WOULD do..? WHy not stick with that stuff, the idea they give info months n months in advance ,keep the fans informed and actually come through with their word..

Who cares what duff said in regards to who he feels was around more? The question is where is axl now?

You are correct. For a moment I thought Contraband had only 11 songs.

He didn't work with the band on those demos. They were sent out to him, he added his vocals. He may have worked with the band on the remaining half of the album, but not on the first half dozen songs.

The point? is, from what we know, Axl may have worked with the band in a lot of songs from the Illusions, but recorded them separetely. Scott on the other hand, was not around when Slash and Duff wrote the demos.

This just isnt true...

I already cited "Set Me Free."? The documentary showed Scott coming up with hs vocals with the band...who knows if he aided in any other additions/changes.

Then theres "Big Machine," which was a demo that was rearranged by Scott.? So to say that Scott simply added vocals to those 6 tracks, without working on them further with the band, isnt true.? We know that the band came up with 6 demos that could have been basic riffs at the very least when Scott decided to work on them.

Get a grip pets, Duff just sayed that Axl wasnt around that much in the studio when they wrote the songs that has nothing to do with Axl actually writing material or not, Its just that physically he wasnt there most of the time, he probably did it by himself. Shit you people should know by now Axl barely shows up ANYWHERE.

i think Duff meant that it wasnt all Axl like most people think and maybe the credits were distorted somewhat which it made it look like all the songs were axl's doing when in reality maybe izzy did most of the song and axl wrote maybe half the lyrics but GNR fans seem to wanna give axl more credit than izzy simply cause he is axl.

I could buy that and totally understand that, cause i remember being younger and seein the dont cry credits and immediately thought maybe izzy did the guitar part but axl did everything else.

i always thought patience was wrote lyrically by axl etc etc

so i think Duff *if he said that* was frustrated with how axl gets so much credit and not all of it is deserved.

i watched the inside out again last night and the band said they had music for 5 songs already when scott joined, which means they wrote 8 together.

during the illusions everyone brought individual songs and then each member put their stamp on it.

so Duff was right, the CB process was more collaborative than the illusion process

i dont see why people are so vehemently denying it.

Duff isnt saying scott is better, he isnt sayin CB is better than UYI, he is just stating thefacts that CB was wrote in a more traditional manner whereas UYI's were more of each member doing his own thing.

http://vr.belowempty.com/lyrics.php

This says who did what..I'm  sure when vr where hanging around trying to find a singer they did most of the instrmuntals and even wrote songs with say izzy, but being scott is their lead singer there's no doubts he wrote lyrics he wanted to sing.. He's not just some replacement playing whatever the band handed him ,his input was important because he has to believe in teh work being he will be performing the songs and having to show emotion...

SOng wriitng was a group thing with gnr, and vr, just scott is visable more..

yeah... ?that's how I interpret Duff's comment as well. ?He's talking about songwriting for the UYIs, when they were no longer living together, and they werent as tight as they used to be. ?



I'm sure Duff could have been more specific, but he's trying to make the point that he has a better relationship with Scott now than he did with Axl in the later years. ?And as a result, there is more collaboration in the songwriting process. ?Most casual fans are not aware of Izzy's importance in GNR, but that's another story.

From what I've gathered from the info on that link, not much is mentioned other than how Matt, slash and Duff wrote every single note on that album. It doesn't specify whether Scott was around or not during songwriting. Actually, one could interpretate Scott wasn't around most of the time because he is harldy mentioned as a part of the songwriting process. There's a few " We gave it to Scott" "We gave it to him/he uesd pro tools..." but it still arguable whether he was there or not.

I haven't seen the documentary "Set Me free", can't comment on that.

On a side note, What's the story with the Contraban poems? I'd be interested in hearing those.

Well then Duffs comment in this thread is a clarifying one...

I assume Duffs comment also applies to their current songwriting for the next album.


I meant VH1 documentary, which showed the band working on "Set Me Free."?

"Its an open canvas" - Slash, to Scott on that first day


Not sure what the exact story is, but theyre poems written by Scott and accompanied by minimal keyboards and percussion ("My Thoughts..." has got some guitar).? They were used as decoys on file-sharing programs around the release of Contraband.? Im guessing Doug Grean had something to do with the music, and perhaps parts of these poems were going to be used on Scotts solo album...Not sure.

Most of the poems are thematically similar to lyrics on Contraband (In fact, some of the poems lines can be found scrawled in the albums booklet).? They also seem vaguely political.

"You Push My Buttons"/"You Got No Right"
"My Thoughts Are All Diseased"/"Headspace"
"If I Were A Woman"/"Superhuman"
"You Give Me Mixed Messages"/"Slither"
"Money Owns Money"/"Big Machine"
"On A Cold Winters Night"/"Sucker Train Blues" (?)

"On A Cold Winters Night" is my favorite...very relaxing.


?

I posted the link because he seems to get the credit for the lyrics, and the band had the credit for the instruments.. At least it seemed like he was involved in every song according to that..

The first album I'm sure they were together for most of the songs, now with the second I would imagine song writing is happening wherever they are staying(bus, hotels, etc) being they've been touring ever since cd came out.
As for the poems I never even payed any mind to them..

I may have mentioned this before, but it seems that Duff defends Axl pretty well.  He rarely takes cheap shots at him; in fact, he many times has said "he has a lot of love for him" and "we went through a lot together."  Plus, even Axl in that 1990 interview said that a lot of communication, etc., is done over the phone, and other band members have said he wasn't around much.  The point is that it seems that Axl wrote a lot of songs by himself and then sand to the music already created, and that Scott was with the band a lot more in the songwriting, which seems pretty reasonable and is not really bashing Axl, but telling the truth.

They had the music for 5 songs that was done before Scott was involved that they used. He helped them arrange those. The rest of the album was written collectively as a band....

You don't know your math.Since when is 3 > 9?We "axl nutswingers" actually have some facts supporting our claims while you on the other hand are just giving izzy a handjob
I know for the most part who wrote what lyrics and? Izzy wrote lyrics for 3 songs on AFD.And writting credits wise,Izzy blew most of his percentages for AFD on his 3 songs,so his contribution on other stuff couldn't be very large,and by far not as much sa some of poster would like us to think

Duff is a pussy.To me it's like ringo saying "I have nothing but love for Lennon,he was the most wonderful
guy in the world,and oh yeah,I wrote Lucy in the sky with diamonds,and half of imagine"

I think I read 90 % of Duff's interviews and only in the last two months does he go into such detail about songwritting.
I guess he has some agenda,but since he's too chicken shit to tell who wrote what since he would only hurt himself, so he instead beats around the bushes to give an impression that Axl wasn't besides slash the main writting force in gnr.
? For me personally,I'd rather be much more remembered for my songwritting skills than
whether some guy thinks I'm an ok dude.

 Perhaps Duff will shut his mouth if slash starts praising Duff for his songwritting abilities and not Axl?!

 

A month ago there was this great thread on metal sludge about who wrote what and in it guy clearly explained that axl has 42 % of AFD,and why lot of it is music

EDIT-I can't remember if it was 41 or 42 %

percentages can be distorted, u have to look at things this way

without slash and izzy we never wouldve had SCOM

that riff inspired axl to write those lyrics and that melody

without slash we never wouldve had Coma

without the music axl never wouldve had the canvas to create those lyrics and melodies


very rarely does someone write lyrics and sing em and then the music is created around that.

most of the time a band comes up with music and that inspires the lyrics and melodies


so on one hand u can say axl did this and this and this

but on the other hand, had the music not been written, axl wouldnt have had the canvas to create on.

D,I don't mean to get pissy,but for one thing,how can someone have a debate with you if you keep distorting the facts?Case in point,I'm shure you knew all along that Axl wrote most of the lyrics,and yet you gave credit for that? to Izzy

BTW-I should say 3 < 7 since axl had nothing to do with It's so easy

I wish I could find you the link to that thread on metal sludge,but in it guy clearly explained why Axl had to write a lot of music for AFD,if we are to believe gnr distributed amongst themself those percentages fairly

Even Matt said to axl the day he was fired that best songs in gnr were written by axl and slash and I think he knew better than you and me who wrote what

im not disagreeing with u, axl does write the best and greatest lyrics but some GNR fans have this crazy illusion that Axl like sits over Slash and Izzy and Duff and tells them what to play etc etc and that is bullshit.

Axl wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies but when it came to guitars,bass, guitar solo's,melodies,drums  axl didnt have a thing to do with that but yet people give him more credit than say slash on SCOM

the intro and the solo's i love just as much as the lyrics and vocals in that song but yet axl gets all this tremendous love and credit like he did it all himself, like he dictated to slash what he wanted played and it isnt true.


the reason axl's percentage is so much higher than slash and izzy's is simply cause axl wrote lyrics and vocal melodies on virtually every song whereas SLash and Izzy split each others percentages cause they cowrote different songs with axl.

had slash wrote the music for all the songs on appetite his percentage wouldve been very close to Axl's but Izzy split the percentage by writing the music for other songs that slash didnt.

so even though axl's percentage is higher, if u combine slash and izzy's together u will end up with similiar percentages

im not gonna penalize izzy and slash because they are both great writers and each had about the same number of songs used instead of one guy writing every piece of music.

this isnt bashing axl he is great, probably my favorite vocalist and lyricist ever but just cause the old band is broke up it isnt fair to shit on the old members like they were a bunch of bumfucks who didnt carry their weight

i love axl the most out of all the members, i have a tattoo of his skull,hair and initials on my forearm which will be there the rest of my life but without the great music wrote by the band guns n roses wouldnt have been Guns N Roses

if axl had joined poison and had to sing over those riffs he wouldnt be the greatest frontman ever, i honestly believe that

GNR collectively fit together to create something unique, they complimented each other so well with their talents that they became one of the greatest bands ever

thats something u just cant place ads in the paper and replace the original members with just anyone and recreate, thats the main reason it has took axl so long to finish C.D. just tryin to recreate the magic, once that happens we will have CD

im not arguin i just dont want the accomplishments of the old band to be overlooked simply cause they arent around anymore.


CD will be great without the old band but that still doesnt change the significance of the old members contributions.

You still haven't answered about the fact that you knowingly lied by saying izzy wrote most of the lyrics.

 someone correct me if I'm wrong,but as far as I remember vocal mellodies and lyrics were considered together and thus 15 percents included both lyrics and vocal mellodies

I know it doesn't prove anything but just think for a moment..
would Slash ever praise Axl as an amazing songwritter if he'd only come up only with lyrics?
Wouldn't he be praising him as only great lyricists(and btw,he once said he doesn't care for lyrics)?
I think he gets along with izzy much better...why wouldn't he praise his dear friend?Wouldn't that be easier especially if Izzy was the main songwritter?
Can you please answer me that D?


And besides,you mean to tell me that people capable of writting great lyrics lack in other areas(music wise)?Ahem,november rain(and I hate that song,but some of background mellodies are amazing)?

Axl wrote a lot of mellodies for songs on AFD with his piano,but I won't go into that again.Either you read the interview where he said that or you didn't

 ???

Not at all, actually.  Its more like Ringo saying the lead singer of his current band was present during songwriting more than the lead singer of his previous band...

Yeah, thats actually more accurate than your analogy.

not at all.What Duff said is left to an interpretation.Same as when he said "of course axl wrote songs and my world is one of my favs " . Now this could mean a lot of things to a lot of different people , just the way duff was prob hoping .You'd noticed that especially if you'd put his quote in a context of the last two months

i never said izzy wrote most of the lyrics, show me where i said that, i said their contributions were just as significant as axl's but axl gets most of the credit
i said izzy wrote the lyrics to patience and i never knew that till here recently.

Ok,you said "maybe axl wrote half of the lyrics".Still,Izzy  didn't write damn near of half of the lyrics.

You also said perhaps izzy wrote most of the song(s?) minus lyrics...newsflash...if that was the case he wouldn't only have 20-25 % of AFD.Those percents just about cover the three songs he wrote on AFD


one wonders how much else you don't know about who wrote what and yet you're arguing with me,the great bwana of who wrote what

Newsflash to you, Izzy DID wrote most of the songs musically.

 a brain fart gone wrong

Thank you

Didn't they say on Behind the Music that Axl was rarely in the studio with the other band members for UYI?  I think that is what Duff is talking about. 

That is exactly what Duff is talking about

Right : ok:
It's amazing how people can see what he's saying, instead some just turn it into something it really isn't.. They all said they had phone in sessions, even axl said he talks to slash by phone, hold that note carry this a little longer.. Axl sightings were few n far between..

Stop arguing people it's that simple, there's no hidden messages,.

Ha! I can just picture it.  Each time Slash, Duff or Matt opens their mouth, Axl jots their comments down in a little notebook to rip them a new one whenever his next on-stage rant will be.  :hihi:

Duff says Scott was around more than Axl during songwriting

 Ok,my 2 cents.  Duff was around at all times same as the rest of the guys,you weren't.
so why don't you do me a favor and shut the hell up and end this stupid thread. :rofl:

Here's my theory on the songwriting process in Guns n' Roses.

It goes without saying that since Slash and Izzy could play guitar and Axl couldn't, they wrote most of the instrumental parts. The songwriting credit system that Slash invented were divided into 4 parts; lyrical, melody, musically and arrangments. If I remeber correctly each of the categories were equal in value. If we take Axl's 40,2% share of AFD it would fit almost perfectly if he wrote all the lyrics and all the melodys (wich is common for a vocalist) and then the rest of the band would share the musical and arrangment parts. But the fact is Axl only wrote the lyrics and melodys for 8 and one third/fourth (he wrote the last verse on It's So Easy I think) of the songs on AFD, wich would leave him with about 34% of the royalties.

And this is where I think the importance of Axl in the band comes in. It's clear he didn't write much of the musical stuff, Slash and Izzy did for the most part. Then why does all the projects these guys have been involved in without Axl pretty much suck compared to what they did in Gn'R?

I think what's special about Axl is his ear for pulling the best parts out of an idea that others have written and that he has a unique way of making all these parts into a comprehensive song. Axl isn't a universal genius but he has a way of getting the guys he work with to write some really good stuff they wouldn't have written on their own.

i agree with most of that but slash wrote SCOM's riff on his own


ive been in bands where i had a guitarist who would write 10 different things but didnt know how to edit those ideas cohesively into a song and i would have to take what he wrote and dictate to him when to play what so the song would flow and make sense

so in some ways i think that is possible.

basically axl wrote vocals and melodies which gives higher percentages than just guitar

also izzy and slash didnt write 12 songs, where they each wrote songs they ended up splitting the guitar percentages since they both wrote.

You're all wrong.

The AFD royalties were split 5 ways equally with the exception of small royalties to external writers who ARE credited.  Do you not know that is why the UYI albums have the details?  Because there was a big hoo hah about it, and Axl etc wanted individual credits so things were split fairly.

Where it says Axl/Slash/Duff, that means Axl and Slash and Duff get 1/3 of the royalties for that particular peice of the album.  Etc etc.  It's how it worked.  I am sure I have read this in the past.  And not from Kerrang or Classic Rock type magazines :P

If I was a guy that actually wrote a piece of music and then some 15 years down the road some twatstick would claim someone else wrote that piece,but congratulate me on noticing and recording that piece of music,I'd be pretty pissed off

You made one mistake there pollux...you figured that lyrics and mellody for them were separated when computing the writting credits,while in truth they were put together.
Lyrics and mellodies for them TOGETHER made 25 percents of an album.So if axl would wrote lyrics and mellodies for all 12 songs,he would still only have 25 %,and the rest would be other music.But he didn't,so that means around 23 % he is credited for came from making music

I'm really sorry to burst your bubble

Oh c'mon!   You Axl fans pull it too far! (As always).
It is obvious that Duff is trying to say that VR are closer than GNR were.
Axl didn't even have soundchecks together with the rest of the band which is - sad!
Why do you guys keep quiet when AXL shits against all the other members but make noise when they say this band is more coherrant? :no:

I think it's the other way around.
When someone says obvious nonsense like that izzy wrote half of the lyrics,noone says muu to correct the guy(now even you can't deny that).I can't tell you how many times I've heard that axl needs izzy back since best songs on appetite were written by him,and if you ask that person what some of his fav songs of the album are,it's usually everything else but the songs izzy wrote(I mean really,besides brownstone,can Think about you really compare to something like RQ or Welcome to the jungle or Nightrain?).
 Which would suggest two things-either people don't know who wrote what in which case it should be pointed out(as it is in this thread) or everything else...well something
 In response to your post...nothing really!I said my piece :D

cheers

I remember Slash saying they would radio in what was supposed to be done to each other.  Most of there communication in the later Use Your Illusion years was done over the phone and not in person.

I disagree, the guys post-GN'R music doesn't suck at all. They made their parts of GN'R, just listen to the albums. GN'R was a team effort, every member put his best and worked on the songs: the musicians on the music, the lyricists on the lyrics and vocal melodies. That's it. I don't want to turn it into a VR vs. Nu-GN'R argument, but Axl's Nu-GN'R isn't even close to the old GN'R, just like Slash & Co. made different type of music. Slash is the bluesy hard-rocker, Axl's the musical 'explorer', Izzy's the Stones-man, Duff is the punk and Steven is Steven.  :yes:

 :rofl: Couldn't have said it better myself!

Well, I think he was a very important part of GN'R, but I couldn't find a musical description for him  ;D

Well, he had the "swing" as Izzy said once, and he gave the songs a certain groove, and even if Matt was technical better as a drummer, he had less of that "swing"...

Anyway, what is the point in duff bashing at axl this way? shouldn't he just move ahead???.

Scott can be around more than Axl during songwriting, but the lyrics comparison between the 2....just a no match. axl is a lot more talented.

So you might see that Duff didn't bash Axl, he just said the truth that Scott was more around during the songwriting. He didn't say that Scott wrote better songs than Axl.

As I've said before,if you put his quote in the context of the last two months ,one has to wonder what he really meant.
  Find me some older interview where he said anything about songwritting that could be interpreted in several different  ways.You won't find one,but you will 3 of them in the last two months
 Mikka are you saying that duff's quote can't be interpreted as "axl didn't write a lot of songs"
 For fucks sake,just few weeks ago he was saying the journalist misquoted him,and then he goes and says this.
 It's like saying "he's not into girls."This could mean he's into women,or it could mean he's into boys.You can believe what you want,but I don't think duff is so stupid he wouldn't realise that
 He's an asshole period

Everybody knows that Axl wasn't around when the band wrote the songs, he liked to work on the songs on his own. It means that when the band wrote the music, he worked on thy lyrics in his mansion and on the other hand he wrote NR and Estranged mostly without the band and when he finished his parts, he asked the others to work on the songs. Duff meant that Scott is more of a team-player than Axl used to be. It doesn't say that Axl didn't write as much.

On the other hand it's obvious that Axl didn't write much of the GN'R music. He wrote the lyrics and the vocal melodies (although these melodies are considered as a part of the music) and he wrote some songs, at least the chords. The main musical force of GN'R was Slash and Izzy.

Lay off the crack pipe.As you can see from my previous posts axl had to write music since numbers don't lie,like ever.
 If Izzy was the main writting force music wise,he would have MUCH more writting credits for AFD.
MIKKA,how is your math?If Izzy has a little over 20 % for afd,and if he wrote 3 songs music and lyrics wise,wouldn't that suggest that he had like 6 % left for music in other songs
 Mikka,until you can reason with me as to why he doesn't have more credits for AFD if what you're saying is true,please do not respond.I'm sick and tired of people like you spewing nonsense without facts to back it up
 Again Mikka,numbers don't lie
 And BTW mikka,I read an interview where axl said he wrote music for AFD.So don't tell me axl didn't write music if I heard it from his mouth

and again.let me remind you that lyrics and mellodies for them go under the same 25 % on AFD.And if axl had 17% for lyrics and mellodies,then where did the rest of 24% came from?
 Few more reminders...and again don't ignore them.If izzy was what you said he was,and if slash doesn't give a shit for lyrics,WHY is he praising AXL and not izzy for his songwritting?

1. There is a topic for the writing credits in the general GN'R discussion
2. Numbers can lie, because it wasn't God, who create them, but the band. And Axl is overcredited. BTW when he wrote the vocal melodies it was considered as part of the music, that's why his name appeared on the AFD musical credits. But because he hardly ever played any instrument, he didn't write instrumental music for AFD. Case closed.
3. As you can hear on the Nu-GN'R songs, its music is really far from GN'R's. Only the piano songs and Axl vocal themes have anything to do with the old GN'R's legacy.

That's your argument,that he was overcredited?Never did I hear izzy or slash say this,and yet you know that?
I'm obviously dealing with a plant here but I don't have any water to hose your brains,so I will be breif here-YOU DON'T NEED TO PLAY AN INSTRUMENT IN ORDER TO WRITE MUSIC.Damn it,read my previous posts.Was national anthem written on guitar?It had to be,how else would slash be able to play it!?Chump

This is as moronic as it gets..your whole argument is that he must have been overcredited ::)
For fucks sake,I'm lost for words,speachless,you name it :D :rofl: :hihi:

Oh yeah,with regards to Nu-gnr...perhaps you should listen to solo albums of ex-gnr members-they were written when those artists were in their prime and yet most of it is a pile of shit,even stuff from your precious izzy(few exceptions there,but nothing that would come close to gnr songs)-so...your point is?

All the solo stuff of the ex GN'R members is FAR better then the new GN'R stuff that has been played live


It's about time, there's nothing but bullshit coming from your mouth

who gives a shit about new gnr?Axl's 42 fucking years old.Tell me of one band(like stones,led zeppelin,metallica) that did anything worthwhile at that age.None of them did and neither will axl.It doesn't mean anything
 I have facts suporting my claims,while you on the other hand only have izzy's love juice on your face,lots of faith in your hero  and stained knickers that are long time overdue

This has been blown way out of proportion. Axl is well known to have written alot by himself especially on the Illusions. I guess Duff meant Scott was "around in the room" more often or something.

Facts? Yeah right... Just because you have some thoughts about something doesn't mean there facts. You mentioned the writing credits system, give me a link to the interview where Axl talks about the percentages.


You should see a doctor and ask him for some medication cause obviously you're in need of some

I know of two interviews,one is even on this site,but I won't find it for you.Let the troll do some searching by itself

You brought it up so you search and give me the link, and hurry up with it

yes,yes in a moment.Just let me hug a tree first

Great, another happy tree

I don't take any joy in shooting your hero off the pedestal.
I'm just asking myself...why is izzy your fav gunner?Cos of the songs he "wrote"?
In that case,is Axl now your fav gunner?Will you need a whole new set of condoms now?

What's with all the anger? Didn't the tree want to hug you?

I'm a guitarplayer and I like his songwriting, guitarsound and guitarplaying. That's it.