Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Dont Cry is my least fav of the big three, lyrically,musically it isnt on the same scale as estranged or November Rain but yet it and NR will always be the top GNR ballads and Estranged flies in under the radar.


I think if Estranged had been released before Dont Cry and NR it would be thought of as an all time classic song cause to me it is way better than DC and NR.

so does anyone think Estranged is penalized do to people being burnt out on GNR? or is it just a long complex song that the average listener cant understand.

not a single type of song to kick of a release with,
great is it, wasn't this their last videorelease except since i don't?

you probably get merged to the other estranged thread

im still amazed that it didnt make the crappy greatest hits but i totally agree with u.

I think it was overkill; GnR had done the whole 10 minute emotional song with NR and here was another one. GnR were also suffering from an overlong tour and overexposure. Estranged was destined to fail because of the timing. However, much like John Carpenter's entrancing remake of The Thing, the longevity of the song has long made up for the lukewarm response. I think it's inclusion on an amesomely bad song list is more of a symbol of the demise of a giant band than some song that is acutally bad like Balls to the Walls.

I do believe that the song suffered because of GN'R burn out. Whether it would have been a classic.. we'll never know.

As everyone has said it was definitely GNR burnout at that point. I don't think it would have done as well commericially though as I don't think it is as exciting a song as November Rain was in a way. Estranged starts to plod towards the middle of the song where NR seems to change it stripes throughout the song. Plus, the video connects people to NR in a way I am not sure any video could have done for estranged.

Slash in the dessert and getting on the piano in the end of the song gave it that epic feeling that people just aren't able to forget. He redefined Rock N' Roll coolness in that song, and people loved him for that. Add Axl at the piano is arguably his coolest outfit and that video just blew people away.

damn skippy that avatar is amazing!


estranged is like the movie "the shawshank redemption"  that movie is one of the greatest movies ever made but it flopped and did horrible at the box office but remains a cult favorite and one of the best selling dvds.

I personally think Estranged is too complicated, too emotional

november rain and dont cry are easily related and easily digestible songs and the closest to pop GNR ever really came but Estranged is something that i think u have to really be able to relate too, i think to truly appreciate that song u need to have gone through some sort of bad crisis in your life to truly get the full affect.

The problem is two larger then life epic songs were released one after another, it was just to big and bloated to both be huge hits..
Lets go back to 1993 when estranged came out, it wasn't getting support gnr was no where to be found ,it was like the video was just thrown out there during the grunge explosion.. People were getting tired of that overdone epic scene and wanted simple music.. Also the illusion albums were milked to death with vids already..

Look at how great basic rockers from nirvana n PJ did, people were like enough already, plus the video was so bloated and these larger then life rock stars were becoming comical.

Estranged was fighting with tom petty for a good spot on mtv's countdowns, it just didn't have the magic anymore.. It was also in the wrong time period, people moved on from those monster ballads

If it was released first it would have done good..

One long epic song from GNR released as a single was enough. You couldnt top that. Estranged is the fans fave, but it's very complex song and not "radio material" like Dont Cry is. DC is simple, straight forward, Estranged is a monster of a song and didnt fit as a single. It's the best epic monster song, but that was also what killed it.

It reminds me of classical in some parts...

If you hear after "whitout you" the music phrasin

It is great to listen to it alone, not actually a party song or a song to make out to late in a party

head set and shuteye : ok: thats how i best enjoy this song

If memory serves Estranged wasn't even a single, though apparently some countries got it. At nearly 10 mins its not radio friendly - its not that people think of it as 'worse' than November Rain but that most people haven't even heard it at all.

Trust me if it was released earlier in the gnr career it would have been a hit.. Keep in mind that this video with the not often played radio version came at the worst time in the world.. It was 1993, grunge was getting huge the times were changing and the big ballad had been done over n over in general it was people moving on..

ALso NR was just hyped way more by gnr themselves, estranged came and went in the outside world .. Even when TSI came out you could tell the fans rushing for the illusions weren't the same in force.. I know it was covers but you could just see the entire type of music people enjoyed was starting to change, the gnr era ended when a new generation began..

I went from a freshman where everyone loved gnr to a senior where I couldn't find a t shirt anymore..

When an era changes the same music that would have done good a few years ago doesn't do anything .. You could get eight shit songs from nsync in 99 and they would have been number one singles, now get a reunion and see where it goes, the material is the same just the times change..

It wasn't popular cuz it had had the meaning......cuz its been too personal to become popular...In the end ....who fuckin cares was it popular or not if we, the GN'R fans, like it??? we are granted this very special song and thats all that matters

Sorry if my post seems over-inflated


Peace

vry  true but the idea was if it was first would it have november rain popularity & praise... Of course we cherish the tunes.. :beer:

Like D said,Estranged is much more dificult to really understand than Don't cry or NR. You need taste and musical knowledge.

Everyone says that you have to go through an intense emotional crisis to really understand the song.Well I've never been through an intense emotional crisis and it's my favourite song ever. Does this mean that when I'll go through shit I'll like the song even more?? WOW,bring on depression!!!

Estranged is my favorite GnR song.  :P

My brother (who likes GnR, but not as much as myself) says he thinks it's a very good song, but it's longer than it should be. I obviously disagree.

i have a hard time believing that Estranged never caught on because it was too "deep" or "complicated"... Nirvana songs were much more impenetrable, lyrically (especially those for Smells Like Teen Spirit and Heart Shaped Box) yet the public, the same public, had no problem getting those songs (or pretending to get them)...

its a good question and i think, as others have suggested, it was a combination of factors. as much as everyone liked November Rain, many were already making fun of Guns n Roses at that point so by the time Estranged came around, i can see how people never gave it a chance, especially with that video. its my favorite Guns song and although i understand the point of the video, i still think its utter crap.

but... any Guns fan worth his salt (except Falcon) thinks Estranged is the best Guns song so screw what everyone else thinks.

I can't believe vh1  would put estranged  on the list    with all those shitty songs. I mean   fuckin creed  got a better position  on that list.  how the fuck  could anything by creed  be better than  estranged??    which proves  vh1 is a freakin joke .  I am  also  disappointed  that prick  ricky rachman hosted that show.   I remember  this idiot  saying estranged  was one of the most beautiful  songs  he had  ever heard  when it premiered  on  headbangers  ball  more than a decade ago.

The best GNR ballad ever IMO. Pure example of what Axl is capable of. At the same time so is Shotgun blues ;D

yes madman it will be even greater if u ever go through some bad trauma, i mean its a great song anyway but when u feel so low u have to reach up for ground there is something about that song that just hits u harder than anything should ever be allowed too, its powerful on its own, but couple it with a horrible tragical experience and it takes on a whole nother life, its like intense therapy sessions.


the beginning up to the piano solo makes u cry but when it kicks in "when i find out all the reasons"

that section is so uplifting and always fills me with hope when i am down.

the first half confronts your problem, the 2nd half provides closure,clarity and strength to move forward.


no other song in music history has ever moved me like estranged does. so in a sick way im glad its not thought of as a all time classic song, kind of my own undiscovered treasure that didnt get overplayed.

definitley the most moving of the GN'R epics, ive always believed it is far superior to November Rain. However, it was bad choice for a single - its a fans song, definitley an album song. The video signified everything that had gone wrong with GN'R at that point too (the bloatedness, rampant egomania etc..)

I love Estranged, and I just wish that more people could hear it.
I have UYI2 in my car and I insist on playing Estranged at extreme volumes with the windows wound down (yes, even in the winter, and yes, even on the motorway in the winter), just so people can hear the brilliantness of it!
I get dirty looks from chavs/townies/preppies but that's only because they don't like rock, but occasionally there'll be someone who'll start grinning ear to ear, just like I would if I heard it being blasted out of a car window completely unexpectedly!
I especially like doing it when there's lots of traffic, and when there's lots of people on the pavement/sidewalk. I turn it up even louder then!
Long live Estranged!
Long Live Axl Rose!
\m/-_-\m/

Estranged is a great song with brilliant guitar riffs... It's the video that GN'R screwed up with. Fucking dolphins!

well you gotta admit it's better that tuna

Couldn't agree more Axl your sat with a dolphin. That should have been the wake up call Axl needed. Unbelievable song!!! I believe if it had been released first it would have been a hit. Hey maybee it will be the first single off CD (joke).

I prefer Estranged to November Rain (which was and remains a major letdown, because I was expecting something much much more energetic and thrilling... as I've said, based on accounts of the song before it was recorded ("...or I'll quit the business") I thought November Rain would pick up where Rocket Queen left off, and actually improve on it).

However, Estranged was probably never destined to be any kind of hit or a classic song. For that to happen it has to appeal to many people on very broad levels.

I do know this though: I saw Estranged performed live one of the first times ever (Alpine Valley, the first Get in the Ring show May '91) and I can remember Axl calling it his 'personal baby' or something. I remember it sounding dramatic, but for the life of me, after the show I could not at all remember anything of the song, not even a few words or any melodies. And one of the tests of 'hit' type songs is that they are memorable after the first listen. That is probably what a lot of people thought of Estranged when the heard it the first time (most likely on MTV with the video).

I think for the average fan, the only thing memorable about Estranged is its length and the wacky dolphin.

no other song in music history has ever moved me like estranged does. so in a sick way im glad its not thought of as a all time classic song, kind of my own undiscovered treasure that didnt get overplayed.



"D,"  all I can say is amen brother!   : ok: :love:

without the success of dont cry and nov rain they wouldnt have been able to afford to even make the estranged video. IMHO.

I had always wondered how history would have played out if Don't Cry appeared on AFD and Estranged was released as a single on Use Your Illusion, more or less taking Don't Cry's place.

I remember "Estranged" being at #2 on MTV most requested countdown. So I'd say it was a hit at the time. It's just that it came out at the tail-end of the GN'R era.