Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Allot of the gunners on this board have had some doubts about the fact that 8 songs on CD may incorporate orchestral arrangements.  It's often said that Axl has tried to be a step or two ahead of the music industry, trying to make his music relative to the time.  Back in 2001, a friend of mine told me that Axl had said at one point that the world isn't ready for Chinese Democracy, trying to defend its delayed release.  I couldn't find a quote to support this (maybe some of you can) but if the recent information about composers involvement is true, this is definitely the case.  In past years, you've seen major rock bands like Kiss and Metallica try to incorporate classical music into their own.  They've done so with mild success and I personally enjoy each of those respective albums. 
Earlier this week, someone posted an interview from Matt Sorum in 1996 where he was quoted as saying he questioned the value of November Rain when he first heard it, but after its success he learned and respected that Axl knew what he was doing and had a vision of the future of music.  While not trying to be a music snob, I think it's fair to say that both Rock and Classical musician?s music are generally considered to be more valuable and meaningful.  This isn't to say that punk, rap, country or other genres are lacking, just that as an overall genre, they lack the complexity that successful rock bands possess.  Each genre has its fair share of shit bands that are aimed at commercial success and we can all agree that rock has just as many if not more than the other styles of music.
I truly believe that it is Axl's goal to incorporate the style and depth of classical music to the methods and brilliance that is Guns N' Roses.  Velvet Revolver is a great band and I have nothing but respect and admiration for Slash and Duff, but Contraband isn't going to change the music world.  Here lies the problem and reason why the original Gunners broke up.  We all know that they saw the band going in a different direction and their egos (rightfully so I think) couldn't work past this. So they moved on to fulfill their own aims and desires.  Tommy made a statement a month or so ago that Axl takes himself and his music way too seriously and has to be on the top of the music world; he can't separate the music from himself.  Here lies (in my opinion) the genius of Axl, his music is him, and it is his life.  The two are synonymous.  I truly believe that when Chinese Democracy comes out, it's going to change everything much like AFD did in 88 and similarly to how Nirvana kind of led the move away from 80s metal.  Had Guns been able to hold together and trust the direction of Axl (after all it was his judgment and direction that made UYI such a hit, he had more influence on those records than any other member) than maybe Axl could have accomplished Chinese Democracy sooner.  Axl has to be a success, he's not going to release an album just for the two or three million of us who would appreciate it, it has to be epic and world dominating like all their albums have been. 
I want Chinese Democracy as much as anyone else, but the world has to be ready for it before he can put it out there.  It's been said before, but I think that's what the 2002 tour was all about; Axl testing the waters to see if the world was finally ready.  I really believe and allot of sources are pointing to a release of CD in the next 6 months.  When Chinese Democracy finally comes, I think we'll all be grateful that Axl waited the extra few years to assure its success.  Axl wants Chinese Democracy to be the biggest GNR album yet and I don't think he's going to stop until he's sure he's completed that goal.  When it does come out, I truly believe that a new birth and direction to rock and music will be set.
If he does accomplish this goal, then and only then can the complex egos of the original members be out aside and then maybe they can try to work out their problems.  While I doubt this will happen because each of their egos is extraordinarily strong, Chinese Democracy's success is the only thing that can re-unite them.

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

two questions? ???

1)Why the hell he should reunite with ex-members when the current members make it with their blood n guts? Who are aiming for the same goal with him ("and us" shall I say)?
Why VR should disband? They are not that half-assed, are they.

2)Where did Tommy state that?
Otherwise your post sounds reasonable to me.

Where has that been said?

I wasn't stating that Axl should aim for the goal of reuniting with the old gunners. ?I agree, it's the new ones that have been there and busted their balls to make Chinese Democracy possible. ?I just understand the appreciation alot of people have for the original Guns and the desire to see them brought back together. ?I was stating that I think that only Chinese Democracy's success could make that reunion possible.

The quote I was refering to regarding Tommy :
?taken from http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1153

Granted I did paraphrase what he said, but I think that my interpretation agrees with what Tommy said.

I don't see it that way. Nowhere does he say anything remotely resembling "Axl wants to be on top of the world".  And when people say you take yourself too seriously, it's usually not too positive. No offense ;)

All in all I'd say you're probably correct. At least I hope so. I'm not quite as optimistic as you, though. Good post, anyway.

I agree, I did use a poor choice of words, but I didn't have the qupte handy when I wrote the original post. ?What I infered from Tommy's quote was that he was saying it's a shame Axl can't lighten up and have a good time because he kind of has the weight of the world on his shoulders. ?Tommy definitely didn't mean this in a negative way towards Axl, and my post implied that it did (although that wasn't my intent). ?Hopefully this clears up the misunderstanding and I am forgiven. ?;)

I think you wanted to post this in the "Jokes" section.

Yep.? ;) It doesn?t necessary mean he wants GNR to be on the top of the music world commercially. Tommy also said music for money is not his (Tommy?s) thing or something along those lines. I think there Tommy?s just saying that Axl secretly cares about fans a lot. He wants his music to make us happy.. Also your friend might have mistaken his words. I think He said most of GNR fans weren?t ready.

loooooooooooooooool

Axl wont get wolrd domination.... In my opinion it could only happen if we where talking about the original line-up cuz there is still hunger for that but Axl's current band can make a great CD but wont dominate... in any case the longer it takes the worst it is.

great post, i think that was very well written and i agree on most, but i didn't quite get why the world would be ready for it now rather than two years ago.... :peace:

i liked your post
thanks for sharing your thoughts

I am confident that GN'R will deliver a quality CD with a variety of musical 'slants'

I remember in one of the Makin' F'n Videos Axl spoke about how although he would have liked to have an orchestra at his disposal for November Rain that it was not financially feasible

It's great that Axl apparently now has taken advantage of the opportunity to do so
Axl is extremely talented and I'm really looking forward to hearing what is going to be on this CD - particularly in how the orchestral arrangements are infused with this talented band's instrumentals.  I'm also thinking "fortus cello solo"  :D

Alright. ?If I understand Guns N' RockMusic correctly, he's suggesting that the orchestral arrangements will dominate the final recording of Chinese Democracy. ?After all, we've learned of having an orchestra on 8 songs so far. ?One worrying aspect of that possibility is that it means Axl has gone back and re-recorded a lot of his songs to give them different arrangements. ?Before it was assumed that a lot of the album would be grungey and industrial-influenced - if Axl was trying to keep up with current trends, it's ironic that those trends themselves are now out-of-date. ?But if there's orchestral arrangements, perhaps Axl has decided that the industrial stuff IS out of date and he's trying to give the songs a new direction. ?Which would mean even longer delays and a morass of ?unreleased original Chinese Democracy cuts. ?Dammit, why can't this guy just release his stupid record?!

The other idea put forward in the first post was that the album would explode and revolutionize music. ?Following your suggestion that Chinese Democracy will use orchestras a lot, this would imply a rebirth of classically-influenced rock. ?To be sure, the 70s did include a time where classical-based rock became popular with acts like ELO and progressive rock bands. ?But ELO aside, these bands tended to rely on traditional rock instrumentation, albeit with complex musical structures. ?If Axl initiates a wave of symphony-based rock, this would be something new, no doubt. ?But it would also be impractical. ?GN'R would have to use backing tracks or tour with a full orchestra to mimic the album's sound. ?And while that would be quite the innovation - Guns N' Roses as symphonic experience - it's not exactly practical for young bands who wish to follow its sound. ?How many bar bands can use an orchestra in their songs? ?Any said musical revolution involving symphony orchestras would be restricted to already-established bands. ?Therefore, even if influential, it wouldn't be so much a musical revolution as a musical fad among already established bands. ?"Man, Axl's using a symphony. ?We should use that in our next record!"

One interesting note: When he was younger, Axl was a huge ELO fan. ?Perhaps that has something to do with it?

While I pretty much agree, I don't think the old band will or even should reunite. But I agree that the album will be bigger than life. Axl is a man on a mission, if you will. There have been more people to work on this album than any other album in history, I would imagine, from producers to musicians to editers, etc. There is something more behind this thing just putting out a great rock album. The more I think about it, and the people involved, and the attention put in it, I believe Axl wants to sort of create his own genre. What all that encompasses, I don't know, but I'd say a mixture of classic rock, industrial, piano rock, and classical instrumentation. He wants to do to today's world what grunge did to him and his peers. It's definitely something to be excited about, and if anyone can do it, it's Axl...

Wow, I like how you said it. I never thought of it this way, but it kinda makes sense. Great way to put it.

This is the exact point I was trying to get across in my original post.? I don't think the recent news of composers crediting work on Chinese Democracy means that this will delay Chinese Democracy at all.? We have no information (at least that I read) that specifies exactly when the composers worked with Guns.? I'm sure Axl has had this idea in his head for quite some time now, and has been working over the years towards this end.? The past ten years have been a testing ground for experimentation, trying to get the music to where Axl wants it to be.? When Industrial first hit the scene and Axl wrote "My World" the concept of Industrial music was still in its infancy.? Obviously Axl had an interest in it and coordinated efforts with musicians in this genre to learn and better understand it.? Hell, Axl obviously has interest in rap and reggae as well, as is shown in the live versions of Rocket Queen and Knockin' On Heavens Door.? I think he dabbling in these different genres is quite genious.? He is literally going through all of his inspiration with a fine tooth comb trying to get it just right.

The fact that so many members have come and gone over the past 10 years shows that he was constantly working with different artist trying to find the right people to make the puzzle fit; constantly trying to make the perfect album that would set the industry on fire.? I don't believe monetary gain had anything to with this aim.? "Estranged" and "November Rain" are entirely Axl; him bearing his soul to us.? I read where he said that he considers these two songs his gifts to the world.? I know that Axl cares about his fans, but no artist creates a record just for the fans (other than those intersted soley in fiscal gain).?

I'm not saying that Axl is solely aiming for a hybrid between classical music and rock, but he definitely realizes that utilizing them both adds a whole new dimension to his music.? Look at their cover of "Live and let die."? Axl couldn't write Chinese Democracy before he was sure he had the right formula and I believe his is at that point.? Although it sucks, it is a fact that Axl is responsible to Geffen records and had he turned over a completed Chinese Democracy in 2000, Geffen would not let him keep it on the shelf untill he deemed it ready.? The 2002 tour served not only as chance for the new Gunners to get out on stage, but as I stated earlier, as a chance to uncase some of his new songs to the world and get a feel; test the waters if you will.? I believe in this aspect it was a success which allowed for him to finally begin to put the finishing touches on the album.?

This record will be nothing short of experimental, none of us will have heard anything like it before.? ?Buckethead is known as an experimental artist, which is exactly why Axl incorporated him into the band.? I don't think the Buckethead agreed with the direction of the album and left; the exact same reasons slighted by Slash and Duff.? This doesn't make them assholes, no musician can play or be part of music they don't believe in.? However, I believe that when Chinese Democracy is released it will change their opinions.?

Chinese Democracy will be something entirely new, and no, your average bar band won't be able to emulate it because they lack the ability to provide a symphony while they play.? But this Guns N' Roses isn't about bar music, this isn't AFD.? Chinese Democracy is about Axl bearing his soul to us.? And something as challenging and honest as that is going to take time as well as emotional strain on him.? I reac where he said everytime he performed Estranged or November Rain it brought back emotions and feelings he didn't necessarily want, but he needed them to deliver the songs the way they were written and meant to be delivered.

I know I'm showing alot of optimism and putting alot of hope into Chinese Democracy.? But to all those who doubt the greatness of this album, I challenge you to name me one album released thus far where he failed to give us anything but excellence.? Chinese Democracy will come, but something as powerful and important as I believe it will be isn't made in one night or even a few months.? The fact that it has taken this long leads me to believe that Chinese Democracy will surpass all of our expectations and will quite possibly be the greatest album ever released.

I think that Chinese Democracy, much like Sgt. Peppers did back in the 60?s, is going to surprise the music world.  Just reading what Dizzy, Axl, Tommy and the other people from Paul Buckmaster to Marco Beltrami have said about this album, it is going to be very special. 
With Sgt. Peppers, the Beatles turned a lot of heads because that album was a huge step in that bands progression, and a huge departure from the Beatles old style.   Sgt. Peppers was nothing like the Beatles did before it, and Chinese Democracy is going to be like nothing we have heard before from Guns n? Roses. 
Tommy calls the new songs ?earth shattering? and Dizzy has said the songs will exceed our expectations.  Those statements make me wonder how amazing this album could very well be.  Brian May and Tommy have both talked about how outrageous/amazing Axl's voice is on the album.   Tommy also alluded that the rockers on CD will be like old gnr,  while Zakk Wylde said the songs he heard from CD sounded like AFD on steroids.
Axl?s lyrics are said to have deeper meaning than on past albums, and we know there is a song about John Lennon, a song about Axl?s childhood abuse, and I am sure ones about the old band and  the break up with Steph Seymour.  This album will also have some political flavor with Chinese Democracy and Oklahoma (if that song makes the album).
I believe Chinese Democracy is going to showcase the new bands diversity and could still be talked about years from now much like AFD is still proclaimed as being just as fresh today as it was 15 years ago.  CD is said to be a melting pot album by Axl and I think you will be able to tell what each members input was to each song.  I think each song will have each member?s trademark, something they can all be proud of.
I am not saying this album will be the best album ever, but I believe it?s going to something that will inspire discussion for years to come.  and not only will it serve to cement Axl's legendary status as the ultimate rock star, it will preserve the dignity of the guns n roses name in the annals of rock history

great post

To the thread title, Ill saimply say no, and refer to common sense as my reasoning.

They most likely be in the top along with all the other artist, as before

the second album is gonna be more experimentin according to axl, as cd will take us more gradually on the journey

things may have changed though :P

Excuse me !?! :confused:

Honestly, Guns were going to take a dive no matter what in the mid to late 90's.  They just weren't the fad of the day.  Axl isn't stupid, he realized it.  He went in to seclusion and waited until the tide turned in his favor a little.

I believe he said in one of those RollingStone interviews that, "my new thing is that I the unknown." The man spoke the truth.

axl on the album:

I could make the right record if I used my influences from what I've been listening to that everybody else is listening to out there. So in that sense, I think it is like old Guns N' Roses as far as, like, the spirit and the attempt to throw all kinds of different styles together.

check loder's interview http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28
 to dig deeper into what the album may sound like, and add the new inputs from classical music to get a hint of what the album will sound like

Yes time makes things fade away, old guns is better of now :D

axl himself in 92 "maybe it would be best for the purist if we died or broke up" : ok:

Done.

Thats because theres no evidence to back it up...in fact:

"Basically, [I'm] listening to everything that's out there as far as music goes. That was a big difference between myself and Slash and Duff, is that I didn't hate everything new that came out. I really liked the Seattle movement. I like White Zombie. I like Nine Inch Nails, and I like hip-hop. I don't hate everything. I don't think everybody should be worshiping me 'cause I was around before them." - Axl

So Slash and VR are the ones who seem to have that mindset...I know, theyre not changing rock, VR is boring, etc., etc...Im just pointing out that Axl probably doesnt have that desire, while his ex-members do.

"So Slash and VR are the ones who seem to have that mindset...I know, theyre not changing rock, VR is boring, etc., etc...Im just pointing out that Axl probably doesnt have that desire, while his ex-members do. "




False. :no:

agreed!

It's gonna be very difficult for chinese democracy to surpase what Afd has accomplished, not only in album sales, but in terms of Afd being considered as one of the best albums of all time.

Music in Cd will be a lot more complex, that seems obvious. Some people will like it and some will not, it's as simple as that. Even though a lot of people are saying that Axl hasn't written much music, I'm sure he has the capability of making some music that will last foerever. Just think of november rain or estranged.....those songs, slash and duff hated them, they said they were obligated to play them. And as a fact, they're some of the songs which mostly everyone loves.

OK, seems like a lot of people are concerned with the orchestration in this album. 7 or 8 songs have been orchestrated either by beltrami or by buckmaster. so what???. the beatles were the first supergroup to introduce classical music parts in their pop songs and everyone followed. I love orchestration in rock songs and I happen to enjoy a lot the metallica s&m (metallica haters don't bash me ? :hihi:). People who like U2, I asume that everyone has noticed the orchestration in One, right?. if not, check it out, it's orchestrated and it's one of the best songs from the last 15 years.

Afd was and still is one of the best rock records of all time. It has influenced a lot of bands since it's release. Cd will be one of the greatest records of all time and will influence a lot of bands also. Remember: Maddy and the blues are not the big guns, so this album, is gonna kick serious ass :beer:

I'm not sure about this. Madagascar, The Blues and CD are among the simpliest GN'R songs ever. The hopefully non-album tracks like Rhiad and Silkworms really brought back chaos into music, but in a very special way. We cannot say it'll be complex until we don't hear the other songs.

check axl's own review of the cd, there's a lot goin on

I'm not talking of this songs specifically. The orchestration, the years in the making, Axl's will to deliver a perfect record....that's what will make cd a complex album.

This is the greatest album that never existed, people have proclaimed this to be the best album ever from never hearing one song.. I think people have decided before it has come out that it will start a music revolution, very few music revolutions being with a guy in his 40's/..

Music isn't always about how good it is, it's about if it catches on.. I love estranged but try to find the song played anywhere these days..

It will never be like the afd/illusion's era, just be realistic.. It could be a hit, but to say it will be like the fisrt original chapter is far fetched imo..

ANyways this is all shit talk lets hear the album and see how it does,.

See I don't know how everyone is geting this better then ever music revolution type album never heard before based on those songs...?? Everyone always says don't judge until you hear cd butr yet people start saying stuff like they know..
Yet there's world domination talks..Sometimes I think axl would be better off not releasing it because in his fans mind this is the best album ever.

Yeah Axl and the others gave something very special for us.. And now let's see and hope Axl will do as great with the new members as he did with Slash, Duff, Izzy etc..

:confused: Can't you decide??I sometimes wonder What's going on in your mind.... :hihi:

Here is the problem  I have heard Maddy, The Blues and CD and they are in no way even close to being the kind or quality of music it would take to (a) make the album a huge success or (b) start a music revolution.  Common sense tells us that Axl must have thought those 3 songs were pretty good in order to put them in his setlist during that failed abbreviated tour in 2002.  Well, if those ate any indication of what quality of songs we can expect from CD, then we may get a decent album, but it won't be anything earth shattering.  And please spare me the "big -guns" crap.  That is almost as ridiculous as the "he has 3 albums done" crap.

Do you honestly think Chinese Democracy will be better than AFD? ?I highly doubt it. ?The new songs are good, but do they really ?compare with Nightrain, WTJ, Rocket Queen, Brownstone etc??? To me they don't. ?Musically, I prefer the old band. ?The guitar solos on Appetite are better than anything I've heard from the new band. ?The only guitar solo from any of the new band songs that is half way decent is the Blues. ?Plus, I think Axl's voice was better when he recorded AFD. ?It was stronger and sounded more "raw." ?I don't think any band will ever top AFD and that includes VR. ?But hey, mabey I will someday be proven wrong, but I doubt that day is coming. ?I don't think Axl will ever surpass the old GNR, and I don't think that Slash, Duff and Matt will ever surpass the old GNR, they were that DAMN good!!!!

+

You missed the entire point because what I said was the album is being called larger then life without people evenb hearing it so I said axl would be better off not releasing it.. The reason I said that is because what people expect can only be in their minds, imagine an album being praised as the next rock revolution yet they haven't heard anything from it..

People say bettr then afd and this n that yet tehy haven't heard one track from the album.,. I find that remarkable

As for the this is shit talk I'm saying yapping about the album's potential is crazy being no one has heard anything from it..

If I had to use the new songs I';ve heard as a guidline it wouldn't be a masterpoiece it would be more of average tunes, butt hat's neithere here nor there, the entire album is probably different then those samples..

When people do selective quoting they miss the point, and when someone is replying to another you have to read their quote as well..  Don't just pick to random lines without the rest of the story..

GUNS N ROCK MUSIC great post,and i apsolutely agree with you!!1
AFD is the best album ever,but many people want copy of that album in 2005!!!
that's stupid,AFD is one,but i 'm so exciting with axls colaboration with composer and classical musicians!!1
GREAT JOB AXL

the only reason they'll want a copy is caus its the return og GNR. its not gonna be bigger than appittie caus CD isnt a breakthrough album. Give another few years, many people will loose interest in the album. I'd still buy it, but AFD is there best, no other album GNR could make will beat it. Everyone has AFD.

Finally, a post that makes sense. You have to realize AFD was a once-in-a-lifetime, catching lightning in a bottle thing that happens when everything falls perfectly into place. Of course Illusion CDs were great, but that first masterpiece CD from five young, hungry, passionate unpredictable guys (slash, axl, izzy, steven, duff) is something that you can't just recreate, nor top over 15 years later. I'm hoping CD will be an amazing album, but to say it will start a music revoloution is ridiculous...Even if it WAS that good, the media and radio wouldn't allow it to start a revolution, as they have their own ideas of what kind of crap music they want to jam
down peoples throats.

Screw Sgt. Peppers! It isn't even the best Beatles record. To quote the Clash, "All that phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust." 

I miss the days when fans didn't care about how many albums their favorite band sold. Now, it seems that album sales and a STADIUM TOUR are the only measure of success.  If this album is going to sell a lot of albums (and I'm not talking about the first week), Axl needs a great marketing campaign. No matter how good the album is, GNR needs to promote it and their is NOTHING to lead us to believe that they are capable of marketing their own product - Live Era (do many people know that album actually exists), cancelled tours, no communication with their hardcore fans. Something akin to U2's television ad with iPod would push the album to the fore.

No. I didn't. I read your posts. Although I don?t share the same view on music to yours, I agree with the last line in your first post. On ya second one, Sure, Too much expectation is too much pressure but what?s about the last line. You?re the one who always complains about their no announce n no album.
So I pulled a gag.

That's not my style. >:(

ok no hard feelings..

Now, it seems that album sales and a STADIUM TOUR are the only measure of success.? If this album is going to sell a lot of albums (and I'm not talking about the first week), Axl needs a great marketing campaign. I agree. This will be the key of the success. The promotion MUST be absolutely  enormous, something equivalent to the ILLUSION EREA where GN'R was everywhere on this planet. in 2002, the promotion was very low, nothing compared to the illusion erea. If there is a real come-back, it needs to be enormous like madonna in the late 90's. When she came back, she re-became really popular and still is now. I hope "chinese democracy" will sold 15 or 20 million copies worldwide...AND YEAH A STADIUM TOUR WOULD BE GREAT. GN'R need can do something bigger than just arenas. MAKE IT BIG!  :P

i do wish gnr all the best too, but most important is the music,

as axl said: t will be a diverse record 8)

Guys  - WARNING!!! All artists have fairly large egos, of course Tommy etc think think their stuff is great, the album will be great but all this 'best ever' stuff.....? Chill out, its never going to live up to what some of you are expecting.

Lets look coldy and objectively at some of whats been offered so far:

The Blues - a  bit trite, and old fashioned, like the GnR song like 'Breakdown'. Theopening piano sounds like a hurdy gurdy in a fair ground- not going to move the public like SCOM I assure you.
Maddy - Some people think its amazing, nice verses NO chorus, lots of media babble, not much more.
Chinese Dem - Love the riff, love the verses again NO chorus worth remembering.

Silkworms - Axl trying to sound like Keith Flint in the Podigy (the fake British accent)...Somebody tell me what the fuck Axl was trying to accomplish singing in a British accent on that crap?? Does this not worry you DEEPLY....this is a man in his 40's doing this in front of 200,000 people!!!!! Putting on accents is the crap 16 year olds do in bands....I worry, I really do. It so sad to see a legend trying to mimic a MINNOW like Flint. Plus again with Silkworms as with all the others NO good chorus (don't even mention the 'what am I gonna do...' lines, that's shouting, not a chorus.)

As for using orchestras..check out Metallica, U2, Muse, Blur, Faith No More, Alice In Chains, Old GnR etc etc ...ITS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS!! TO DEATH!!!


Be blind, flame me if you want but old 'general public' will not see this 'music revolution' you speak of on the material released so far. 'Big Guns' may be coming but an ego like Axl will not release/play what he would feel to be crap music  surely after 10 years you see that? Using that logic, he must believe the new songs he played for us on the CD tour are great. Sadly they are not, they are good, NOT amazing or life changing.

I am not a hater, I want the man to succeed, it might make Slash & Co., reach down deeper into themselves and gives us a real ass kicker of an album instead of the lukewarm one we got...
If both parties were in direct competition we could see the most amazing stuff arrive on the scene, however, judging by the cards we've been dealt so far I think its too late. Advancing age, drugs, egomania and general fucking around etc have robbed the best of these men.
Sad.
Intercourse.

Its not going to be a single, so why would you suggest or compare it to scom?

::)

Some peopel will never get it.....I enjoy the osng a lot...in fact its blasying right now....pussy full o fmaggot you....

Bumblefoot said silk worms reminded him of Pink FLyod.

Im pretty confident Axl will be able to write atleast a  few memorable osngs and the band will be able to use thier talents and come up with some interesting sounds...actually i think the whole ablum will be mind blowing...

I'm not saying Axl didn't like grunge, but the fact is that it's what put him out of business, so to speak...

What evidence do you have to support a comment such as that?  Because it would seem odd that Axl would want to put current musicians out of business when hes publicly stated that he listens to and likes a lot of new music...

Axl did that accent on Down on the Farm
It adds humour to the song
Something to take the edge off of lyrics like "pussy full of maggots"  :hihi:

down on the farm is originally sung with lots of brittish accent, so i doubt it's pure humor, but who gives a shit anyway... i think the voice tone sets a sertain character of a song, but it couldn't make me like or dislike a song... i believe...

well, we'll get used to it, i'm intrested, a revisit to the past would be dull, but music can still be based on that
here some axl comment on the album, so we'll better get used to not gettin afd2


"Appetite," which was to kind of be a melting pot of a lot things that were going on, plus use past influences, I could make the right record if I used my influences from what I've been listening to that everybody else is listening to out there. So in that sense, I think it is like old Guns N' Roses as far as, like, the spirit and the attempt to throw all kinds of different styles together.

So we have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate, because we were exploring the use of computers [along with] everybody really playing their ass off and combining that


 I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based.

Working with several other musicians and producers, Rose amasses thousands of hours of tapes with song fragments and musical ideas, none of which have been heard publicly.

Guys  -
OK so some of the guys have spoken regarding Chin Dem and we have all run away with ourselves imagining this to be some extra-terestrial feat of wonderment, I say this:

WARNING!!! All artists have fairly large egos. Of course Axl, Tommy, Dizzy etc think think their stuff is great. This album should be great but all this 'best album ever' stuff.....? Chill out, its never going to live up to what some of you are expecting.

Lets look coldy and objectively at some of whats been offered so far:

The Blues - a  bit trite and old fashioned, something along the lines of the GnR song 'Breakdown'. The opening piano is a bit...well....sappy... the lyric is ok. This song is  not going to move the public like SCOM I assure you, if it's ever released as a single I think it will bomb.

Maddy - Some people think its amazing..why? It has  beautiful verses yes but NO chorus, lots of media babble, lots of screeching guitars and not much more.

Chinese Dem - GREAT riff, love the verses but again NO chorus worth remembering.

Silkworms - Axl trying to sound like Keith Flint in the Podigy (the fake British accent)...Somebody tell me what the fuck Axl was trying to accomplish singing in a British accent on that crap?? Does this not worry you DEEPLY....this is a man in his 40's doing this people!!!!! Putting on accents is the crap 16 year olds do in bands....If it was a cover I'd understand but this kind of thing is childish...I worry, I really do. It so sad to see a LEGEND trying to mimic a MINNOW like Flint. Plus again with Silkworms as with all the others, NO good chorus (don't even mention the 'what am I gonna do...' lines, that's shouting, not a chorus.)

As for using orchestras..check out Metallica, U2, Muse, Blur, Faith No More, Alice In Chains, Old GnR etc etc ...ITS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS!! TO DEATH!!! All this talk of how 'unique' this collaboration is just too much.....


Be blind, flame me if you want but old 'general public' will not see this 'music revolution' you speak of on the material released so far. 'Big Guns' may be coming as the great man said. However, an ego like Axl will not release/play what he would feel to be average/crap music EVER, especially with the world and his former bandmates watching; surely after 10 years you all see that? Using that logic, he must believe the new songs he played for us on the CD tour are great. Sadly they are not great, they are good, NOT amazing or life changing or revolutionary.

I am not a hater, I want the man to succeed, I want him to amaze, elighten and uplift us all. It might make Slash & VR, reach down deeper into themselves and gives us a real ass kicker of an album instead of the lukewarm one we got...
If both parties were in direct competition we could see the most amazing music arrive on the scene.  However, judging by the cards we've been dealt so far  by both camps I think it may quite possibly be too late. Advancing age, drugs burnout, egomania and general too much fucking around etc may have robbed us of the best of these men musically.

So before you bite my head off, put on 'Welcome to the Jungle' then put on 'Chinese Democracy' and be a cold objective judge on the impact of each...Put on 'November Rain' and then put on 'Maddy' and do the same......they just don't stack up against each other. 
I'm worried this album will be the 'Water World' of the music business.
I hope TO FUCK I am wrong.
Intercourse.

This post looks familiar.. Well I think a music revolution is a bit much, I don't think these songs are the sronger of the two eras thus far.. I'll just wait n see when I buy the album..

Is this Taz back under a different name?

He makes some good points, but I just don't want to get into it, I feel like I'm always arguing about direction, or albums, or the current (old.new) material..

As  revolution it would be a bit crazy to think the new instalment would have the same effect as they did in 87.. That's just using logic and looking at others who come back and people of that age..

I hope they sell everything out and cd goes platinum 10 times, but that's just talk and we'll have to wait n see..

i don't think so, Taz would praise VR's album and especially Slash. Intercourse is just pessimistic and it seems he doesn'r quite like the news tracks - which of course is his right. but at least he doesn't bash axl.

No it isn't . Ok it's a rehash of old arguments, but we've fuck all else to talk about regarding our favourite band.
That other 'musical revolution' mail just struck me that some of the fans are off the radar about what Axl is going to give us... it just got me to thinking that disappointment or a feeling of not getting what was hoped for seems to permeate through this GNR, VR story and I think its because the myth is now bigger than the men..
U2 are suffering the same way with their new album....they just can't reach the ridicilous expectations people have for them anymore plus they are gettin' old...
Maybe Axl is in the same hole...
Intercourse.

You really think u-2 is suffering after a grammy album in 2001, and now a big release in 2004.. ?

Age plays a big part in newer bands, someone like the stones, aeromsith, kiss, ac/dc, etc have had the same growing fan base so it's not a big deal.. SOmeone like revolver is new and will be harder to get as many people interested..

Axl may have those problems, or he might not.. It's just something that only the release will tell..

why did u start a new thread after you already posted the same thing in a recent dead horse topic?

Those songs is never meant as singles, and some of them may not make it on the album

other artist s(kylie, jp iced earth, vr) ?are in their 40's having a great time fuckng around

nothing wrong with that,

if you wan't more predictable songs, i'm sure you get some on the album,
but songs with the standard, verse- kick-ass chorus- then solo fits more for the moneydiggers, idol-workers than musiclovers if the album gonna concist of that package. a little of both will do

gnr will sure give something "cool" for the young ones to dig

and something that works for the grown ups that don't get embarrased by fake british accent : ok:

what do think?

When I say suffering I mean people are now saying U2 sound too much like U2 on ths album...(?)
Read reviews about it in RS, Pitchfork etc. They can't win with some critics and even some of the fans.
It is interesting what a difficult thing a world changing album can be to a band in the long run. Look at Waco Jacko (Thriller), STP (Core), U2 (The Joshua Tree), Norah Jones (Come Away..), Alanis Morrisette (...Pill), GnR (AFD)......none of these people ever got the same type of success they found on these albums again. Sure they all sold loads of records afterwards but it was always a case of..'yeah this ones great BUT its not as good as...'.
Maybe this is what's killing Axl...he can't bury AFD no matter how hard  he tries and thus he can't bury the old line up either. Maybe its the source of all the problems???

As for using orchestras..check out Metallica, U2, Muse, Blur, Faith No More, Alice In Chains, Old GnR etc etc ...ITS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS!! TO DEATH!!! All this talk of how 'unique' this collaboration is just too much.....

I agree with your post for the most part. With the exception of this statement.

Orchestration does not mean full on orchestra like everybody is thinking. I think people here are getting too carried away and thinking along the lines of what you are saying. I highly doubt it will be anything like that.

The rest, to me, is true. I don't think that Maddy or The Blues are great like many here believe. In fact I'm not crazy about them at all. I like Silkworms a lot though, and CD, while very good, is not anything like that of the past. But to me, it is great just to hear Axl do something. So if CD is just good, that is still ok with me. I just like hearing what he puts out.

I have lots of artists I listen to. Some have great albums that put them on the map, and others are just ok. I like them all, although some better than others.

???? What the fuck are you on about???? Yeh granted you did make a few valid points in your original post, but what the fuck is this comment all about? It sounds sod all like the Prodigy and when I heard Silkworms at Rio I certainly didnt think "Oh my god Axl is trying to sound like a fake brit here" And why is Keith Flint a minnow? Im not trying to be pro Prodigy here but its a bit of silly comment to make considering what Keith Flint and the rest of the Prodigy have achieved for their Genre of music!!

You do not have to be  an 'idol worker' or a 'moneydiggers' to  like a good chorus.
A good chorus does not necessarily make a song 'predicatable' either..
GnR have had an incredible run of choruses and that has been part of their appeal.
SCOM,
Paradise City
Pretty Tied Up
Patience
etc
I don't hear them and I find the songs lack an impact as a result....my opinion and short attention span Joe Publics too I guarantee you...

If you like the 'british accent' thing fair enough, I pointed out why I think it sucks, it's more to do with Axl following rather than leading.
Legends don't follow ANYBODY.

agree, right next door has that verse-chrorus-solo thing and still works for me

But the songs stepping out from that standard is quite good and far more intresting musicwise

and the blues has part that works as a chorus works...

Anyone else find youself singin i don't now what i should do and has that part in your head like a chorus would?

Yeah there's something amazing about most artist's early work, the albums just fly off the shelves..

I remember dookie from gd, nevermind, ten from pj, etc.. SOme reason certain groups have a decline in sales regardless of what their music is.. It's all about being at teh right moment in time.. ?Latin explosion, boybands, pop princesses, they all have time frames..

I believe it's because every 5 years or so a new type of sound or attitude appears and the younger kids fall for it..

WHo would think yellow card, or new found glory, or GC, or hoobastank would be so big, they mostly suck ass ,they just appeal to the younger kids..

I look at it this way to tell you about age, the reason by hoobastank was a number one hit, but fall to pieces couldn't climb the charts as well.. Now give hoobastank fall to pieces and their faces around it and it would be gold ?ANother example is look how good breaking the habit by LP has done, the onsg sucks but kids can't get enough of it..
It's all about time and what the people want or what mtv can trick them into loving.

???? What the fuck are you on about???? Yeh granted you did make a few valid points in your original post, but what the fuck is this comment all about? It sounds sod all like the Prodigy and when I heard Silkworms at Rio I certainly didnt think "Oh my god Axl is trying to sound like a fake brit here" And why is Keith Flint a minnow? Im not trying to be pro Prodigy here but its a bit of silly comment to make considering what Keith Flint and the rest of the Prodigy have achieved for their Genre of music!!


Come on man, Keith Flint barely even made it onto the new Prodigy album and YES I am a fan of the band.  Why would a legend want to follow Flint of all people? Liam Howlett is the heart of that band, writer, producer, boss; Flint was a novelty act which is shown out by his absence on most of the new record.
I mean if Slash came out with a band called 'Slash 182/41' sporting heavy, runny eye liner, sleeve tatoos and started pogo jumping while playing pop punk you'd fucking ROAST him..why? 'cause he doesn't NEED to,
Same for Axl...LEGENDS should steal ideas from others yes, but make it so much their own its unrecognisable as a copy YES.

No need to create a new thread about the same thing.

-Merged-

Guns n' Roses were WAAAAY more popular during the illusion erea than during the Appetite one in the world. So maybe Appetite is the best album of the band, but they were more successfull and more popular at the time of UYI. UYI erea was the peak of the band in a worldwide popularity. Now I don't live in the U.S., maybe they were more popular during Appetite there I don't know.

That's a defenite.. I think the illusions opened up a new fan base, you had the acdc/metallica fans, but then with the singles like don't cry and november rain you got the softer rock followers to enjoy gnr.. Those songs really touched the female audience.. I remember when nr came out my mom really enjoyed it..

The reason afd gets the recognition is because it was the catalyst that launched this raw untamed band into a world of mostly hair bands,.. It was a breath of fresh air, something different, not staged.. It was one of those albums that changed music at the time, same way nirvana's nevermind gets the credit..

I am not trying to just argue with you for the sake of it Intercourse, but I dont get where you are coming from with this 'Axl following and not leading thing'. The main reason why I too believe Axl is a legend is because I dont think he has ever followed any other artist or their style ever. I believe that is why is he is a legend because he is so fucking unique. I think Silkworms for example was very unique, a little strange yeh but not an attempt at copying the Prodigy or anyone else (just my opinion). Second to GnR the Prodigy are one of my favourite bands and I have seen them in concert many times and that is why I was saying earlier why I didnt think of the Prodigy at all when I heard Silkworms at Rio. Its as I have thought for a long long time, when we finally see Chinese Democracy it will be a massive massive album with so many different styles of music on there. I may be very wrong but I dont think Silkworms will be on the album i just think that it was a chance to play live one of the many songs he has been toying with. No of us know what is gonna be on there we can only speculate, but lets just hope its as good as we are all hoping.

 :beer: to estranged33

When it is what the artists truly desire to let people hear rather than what they compromised to meet people?s taste it will no way fall short of My expectation.

I?d say

WARNING!!! Many artists get fairly large expectations from their fans. Of course we think their stuff is great. Chill out, its nothing uncommon among those fandom.
Such expectations just give us thrills of being fans. Not much harm.

However there are a bit unusual elements being usual in the GNR world. That is,
as you see in this thread there are still a few fans who are not ready yet. They won?t be ready forever coz they refuse to.

 "So we have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate, because we were exploring the use of computers [along with] everybody really playing their ass off and combining that, but trying to push the envelope a bit. It's like, "Hmm, I have to push the envelope a little too far. We'll wait on that." So we got a list of things". ?
---axl on the album sound(99):taken from the link norway(Ta!? : ok:) provided.

On checking this with Tommy?s comments Guns n rock quoted, I hope he?s not caring about the fans too much. There?re some dogmatists haunting GNR and other upright fans. They never try to expand themselves. You can?t expect their advance much. Moreover, they?re very few in relation to the big picture that even commercial wise (which I don?t care tho), their doctrines should be neglected.



To care about fiscal thingy is not to care about fans.

With all due respect I reckon Axl probably knows what he is up to! I mean I obviousy dont know anything that is happening on the GnR world, but I reckon he has acheived enough in his career to date to know how to release a good album.

I am ready for this album, full on electronica, RnB, Hip Hop, RnR whatever....BRING IT ON...I have all types of music in my collection and I've played and recorded music for nearly 12 years for fun and professionally.
What I am pointing here out has NOTHING to do with the stylistic arguments or an inability to move on.
The absence of a hook in many/all of the new tunes is my opinion and is one shared by many others, it does not in ANY way mean that I do not understand or appreciate what Axl & Co. are trying to do. I am merely clistening and giving my opinion. I don't hear the HOOKS in the new tunes that I heard in the old... A HOOK is a HOOK regardless of the style of song it is..
The Blues - where is the hook? Is it a line? A guitar run? A piano sounds..please show me.
Maddy - The first line of the verse seems to be the only hook I can find., Again enlighten me on where the rest of them are.
SilkWorms: It's electronica so put it against similar pieces by NIN, The Prodigy or Crystal Meth and does it rate?...NO.

I am highlighting CRAFT here, the crafting of memorable music. Sure all the bells and whistles are there but 'memorable'...sadly no. This is not about me moving on or evolving, its about Axl releasing good songs vs bad songs. If The Blues is the best mid-tempo ballad he can give us after 4 years with the current line up then as I said, I don't think the man has the chops he had.  Axl must be very proud of Maddy, he played it at the VMAs to the millions for his big comeback. The verses are STUNNING but it meanders off to a load of quotes and noise after that...

I don't want the same old sound but I want the QUALITY I am used to from the man abd I'm not hearing it.
As I said I hope to FUCK I am wrong.
Intercourse.

The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based. (axl on the album)

ops, double post, but i just can't wait to hear this album and how it mix with rock

if it was the case, why did he include "my world" on UYI2? why did he release a kind of song like "oh my god" in 1999 as the first track and first impression in almost 6 years? why did he play silkworms...and stopped to play it after he felt it wasn't well-received at all? why did he make that statement talking about indus music that he wants to make (again)?
He wants to achieve something "indus" for GN'R...but it just won't work. come on, he already did it, and it didn't work. so why does he continue? ??? This is what I want to understand. just one question, one problem: Why does Axl continue in this indus musical direction if it will very likely be a failure?

What?? Whats with all the technical shit? Hooks and Craft?? I said earlier that I'm sure Axl and the rest of the band know what they are doing. I just cant help but think you are being rather negative thats all, and getting a little deep about what the content of the album will be when nobody really knows! I can see that you are obviously a GnR fan and are not just here to bash Axl and the new band as so many others do, but I just dont get some of your comments!

If HE and some FANS  thinks the music is great it will never be a failure, get it?

The only one who can loose on this is the record company that spent 13 mill

n response to:
"What?? Whats with all the technical shit? Hooks and Craft??"
Look man I'm not trying to be a wise ass but the crafting of songs is done on EVERYTHING you listen to on albums. There would be no need for producers if there was no need for craft, that's what they do, they help the artist get the best from their song. Their second job is to ensure the song has a hook: a hook does exactly what it says, it hooks the listener and keeps them coming back to the song again and again. Without both of these essential ingedients you don'talways get good songs. True, some amazing tunes have been written in minutes but the final product we, Joe Public hears can often be a million miles away from the original idea.
I don't think I am too detailed in my view of GnR, millions of music fans do this. The released GnR tunes are LOADED with hooks and craft,  think of all the lines you love AXl singing that stay in your head. I don't hear them in the new stuff.
If you think that those two words are not used by Axl almost everyday of his recording life you'd be foolish. You are not allowed get away from them with a good producer and rightly so...this is why I worry that so many producers got shown the door...
And yes, I LOVE this band, its why I care...and listen so deeply.
Intercourse.

love this band too, but if they're goal is to acheive popularity rather than doing the music they are intrested in creating...

-then we would be fucked :nervous:

If you think that Axl Rose is writing music that he thinks won't be popular you're MAD.
You can be true to yourself as a musician and write songs with global appeal, I don't know why some  fans always feel that bands would believe its bad to write songs to please fans, they don't!!!

Here's a simple analagy; when you're buying a gift for someone at Christmas, you try to buy something THEY will like that still says something about YOU. Popular music is something similar, you write your songs that have your style and your mark and hope that the fans see your vision and go with it.  NO artist wants to be unpopular or alienate their fans, it often takes years and huge amounts of work to earn those fans so you loathe to loose them, particularly because  they pay the bills!!!

Axl wouldn't even play clubs when the band were at their peak, it always had to be 'bigger than everyone else' for Axl. Axl doesn't want to be a club artist who ditched his main fanbase, he wants to be the biggest in the world again, with MILLIONS of fans. He's not a cult artist and all of those artsists he admires (Elton John, Queen etc) were not either.

What you may have here is a man who thought that he was good enough to turn his hand to whatever musical style he pleased and write monster hits with ease.  Maybe he's realised that its just not that easy. There is more to this huge gap in productivity than 'taking his time', this is about Axl delivering the goods and back to what I was saying, the 'goods' we got are lightweight compared to his early works.

not saying that at all

they would have been creating with popularity in mind..that's my point. : ok:

AFD was raw and inviting, perpetual lightning in a bottle: the right music at the right time. That being said, there is no chance that CD will approach what Appetite did, in respect or sales. It can, however, be a very good album that restores the GnR name which has been tarnished in reputation following the departure of Slash and the 2002 meltdown. Axl needs to win over alot of people for this to work, he's already a few paces behind in the race, but with the spoils to follow his considerable effort, he can win this.

okay... this - from someone who we can believe actually heard the music:

"Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures"

Don't worry people...
Axl knows what he's doing and shit! give the rest of the band some credit also
What we've heard from Tommy, in my opinion, is an indication of what he thinks is good music
and I really like VGH a lot.  Axl + Tommy = 2 great songwriters on CD  : ok:

WHat is the advanced material for gnr fans and the use of computers in music??

Can Guns n' Roses release Chinese Democracy and go on tour without a 3rd guitarist?

I mean those tracks on CD where Buckethead is doing most of the lead guitar, will they still be on CD? Have CD's tracklist been changed since Bucketheads departure?

Let's say they got around 30-35 songs that're choosing from to end up on CD. I would definately not choose to release "Buckethead songs" until I've found a replacement to re-record his parts. I mean go on tour with 2 guitarists when the songs requires 3..

And also Buckethead was a big part of the new GNR, he was a big "attraction" himself. He was a big part of what got people interested/curios in GNR again . He brought back some of the mystery, besides just being an awsome guitarplayer.

There's some lines which I think are hooks...

"All the love in the world couldn't save you
All the innocence inside
You know I tried so hard to make you
Ooooh, to make you change your mind

And it hurts too much to see you
And how you left yourself behind
You know I wouldn't wanna be you
Ooh, now there's a hell I can't describe

So now I wonder through my haze
And try to find my ways
To the feelings that I've felt
I saved for you and no one else
And though as long as this road seems
I know its called the street of dreams
But thats not stardust on my feet
It leaves a taste that's bittersweet
that's called the blues

I don't know just what I should do
Everywhere I go, I see you
You know it's what we planned this much is true
What I thought was beautiful don't live inside of you, anymore


I don't know just what I should do
Everywhere I go, I see you
You know it's what we planned, this much is true
What I thought was beautiful don't live inside of you, anymore


What this means to me is more than I know you believe
What I've found is you now has cost more than it should for me
What I thought was true before, the lies I couldn't see
What I thought was beautiful is all in memories"

Oh yeah and those guitar solos, I think they're kind of hooky too. 8)
And piano stuff, well it's just... hooky.? : ok: ?
Enough for you? :rant:

not really mate nah... :P

The Blues is one HUGE hook. I mean, this song has definitely got "it". ?The part "So now I wonder ......" and the "Aah ah aha...." part are also defintely hooks. I can't get them out of my head for days if I hear them again.

The Blues is one of the best songs I've heard in years. But it's not a radio hit, but what is these days? The crap Brustina Timspeariluira releases? All the gangsta shit? I don't care for radio hits and I do hope they don't have any "hits", because having a hit these days means you made a total crap song.

Hi SADIS,
That's the great thing about music and this board, we can all differ in opinions, expectations etc. and that's cool.
Personally, the first time I hear November Rain, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck but when I heard the piano intro to The Blues it just seemed tacky to me, too sweet and nursery rhyme like...if you get my drift. It also reminded me of 'Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me' by Elton John and George Michael which I'd rather not think about.
That said, I LOVE the guitar solo in it, I reckon Brian May from Queen may have written it, it's got his style all over it. I couls hear the stduio version and be happy to shut up and retract,  here's hoping huh. : ok:

blues does nothing for me, I get the been there done that feeling but only weaker then what I've heard ie nr estranged.. I know this is against popular demand but I wish axl drifted away from the piano..

I haven't read all the replys so I apologize if I reiterate what has already been said, because I'm sure it has.

I don't think Chinese Democracy will have the same impact of Appetite For Destruction for a few reasons. When Gn'R first released the album, there were no expectations, no hype, there was no preconceived notion of the band other than what had been said of their live act and their lifestyles. The general sound and music of Appetite came out a time when that specific music genre was pretty much the talk of the town as far as metal/glam rock, it was the most popular I suppose. I think music historians have now basically stated it wasn't Nirvana or Grunge that killed glam rock/pop metal but it was AFD that killed it and bridged the gap between the metal of the 80's and grunge of the 90's. So historically, it is a pretty relevant and important album.

The musical landscape has changed immensly since 1987.

This is my personal belief that there isn't really one genre of music that holds the cards for a long period of time, especially in the new millenium. We have seen that as time progresses (80's rock, 90's grunge, mid 90's rap, late 90's pop music) that the time one specific genre outshines all others becomes shorter and shorter. There are always fluctuations and society in general is pretty trendy and have short attention spans. Couple this along with the fact that music pirating and illegal downloading is a predominant matter in the music industry today. So I mean there are already a few aspects that Axl has somewhat against him.

Which leads me to my next point. Axl doesn't have the luxury of a clean slate. He has baggage with him. People associate certain feelings with the name Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses. Good or bad. So I mean its that much harder for Axl to please people or get an unbiased opinion of his music. Like Lars said, a band can release the best fuckin' album ever, but if that band is established, people will have a preconcieved notion of what the band should sound like. So I believe that Chinese Democracy has the potential to be one of the top 5 albums of 2005, but only time will tell if the relevance of the album will be great.

Not even in 1987 could anyone tell you that AFD or Gn'R would have such an impact in the history of music. But they did, so I won't judge the relevance of Chinese Democracy, only time can.
 

^ nicely put

Besides everything I believe age will come into play, revolutions don't occur when someone is going to be 43.. Kids make bands big album sales wise, I can't picture tons of teen screaming for gnr now as they did in 87..

The whole style attitude and idea of what gnr was isn't the same as it is now.,.

Lets face it even if gnr released afd for the first time now it wouldn't do as well.. Guitar rock was huge in the 80's.. It won't be the original fan base buying all the albums it will be kids from your hs..

When I was a teen seeing rod stewart and jagger, tyler,  and people of that age I thought it was more lame then something cool.. WHo knows though, you need an album before anything..

how come i dont see these comments  from you when I hear you talk about Contraband?

To be honest i cant help but laugh when people on here think that chinese democracy will dominate the world, it just wont happen (even though id love for it to happen)

appetite for destruction is a flawless rock n roll album which cannot be touched, an other worldly album in its time, and after reading that thread about orchestra merging with gnr to create a revolution, no disresepect to the poster but i found myself laughing out loud, only an ignorant music fan would post something like that, Bands like Rush have created far more complex songs with arrangements beyond its time and have failed quite miserably. Pink Floyd the most talented band in the history of music in my opinion and the sonic masterpiece creation dark side of the moon is as good as an album can get in terms of revolutionary.

Chinese democracy cannot be something new to music, it can only be a good album at most.

Look at Noel Gallagher from Oasis will he ever write albums as good as Definitely Maybe and Whats the story morning glory? No he wont... because those albums are too good, but will Oasis continue making good albums? yes ofcourse they will.

Now, because there hasnt been anything from gnr for the past 10 years... A good album simply wont be good enough for people on here, but i have chosen to settle for that, i will enjoy it for what it is.

CD? wont and cannot be innovative as some people might like to think, i mean cmon... it cant be better than albums like Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt peppers, Dark Side Of The Moon etc etc.

but guess what? all this doesnt matter because gnr got AFD, one of the best rock n roll albums ever.? ;)

and what about UYI well sadly the same cannot be said, when i listen to it it feels very outdated and cheesy.

again Axl's admiration for Pink Floyd's The Wall let him down on this album much like The smashing Pumpkins Mellon collie and the infinite sadness, which was also inspired by the wall.

basically im trying to show that ideas and inspiration of albums from other albums sometimes can work, but with chinese democracy and its aim to be world dominating and ground breaking.. well it simply cannot work.

Yes,you know :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

I think its funny that you think an album can't be better than AFD yet didn't people say the same thing in the days before AFD came about about lets say some Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd albums for example?

I doubt they will.
I think CD will be a great album if it ever gets released, but very, very few bands ever
put out a groundbreaking album later in their career.
Most bands have their "masterpiece" or best work released early in their career when
they're peaking creatively and hungry for success.
Without the original lineup, it would be nearly impossible to top AFD, but Axl has worked hard enough and surrounded himself with good musicians, so I expect CD to be extremely good,
just not "legendary" as many assume it will be.

you cant compare pink floyd and guns n roses... in terms of album releases they are totally different.


Pink floyd released countless avant garde records before creating their masterpieces.

gnr created their masterpiece first.

spot on, however the endless hope and hype of chinese democracy will make at least 2-3 million people dissapointed.

Once again, NO NEED TO CREATE A NEW THREAD ABOUT THE SAME THING. Couldn't you add your comments to the existing thread?

- Merged -

Comparing cd to afd is nuts, afd was released in the 80's
-can u tell if it was more important than elvis's breakthrough album?

Both are important an unique


every decade there will be a musicpiece that goes into the history as very important

I hope cd will go into the history books along with the other big ones

There's nothing that can deny that possibllity
Those who wan'ts to replace cd with afd or that cd shall top afd in their hearts to be a succses,,, don't get them :no:

afd has no alternates, maybe the same thing with the upcoming cd, we'll see :)

Do I have to explain?? Well of course I have to, gnr is in a topic of toping afd or being as good with cd, so I said the song does nothing for me and it isn't as good as estranged or nr...
If this was contraband adn I was comparing three songs one would be the weakest and do teh l;east for me.. Just because I think the blues is a tired third type recycled gnr from the past has what to do with contraband.. ?

Contraband is from a group outside of gnr now, we are comparing songs from gnr's past..

You don't have to like my opinion, I just feel the blues is a third rate nr or estranged, it's boring piano ballad rock.. Maybe it fits along with motley crue's home sweet home or something, it just seems like axl's been there doen that  in regards to gnr and it's weaker then his previous piano ballads..

I keep hearing revolution and taking over the world and I'm saying not with the type of songs I've heard so far.. Axl's done ten times better before, all the new tunes rank in the lower part of gnr's catalog in my eyes..

Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have songs ten times better but I am just going on the songs I heard

With the blues it's like he tried to take a massive collective gnr shit and out came a raison in regards to a musical comparison with his two other epic ballads..

Maybe it's because they are live songs and it's not the same as the radio when the product is finished..  It dosn't have the hook for me that catches my attention the way say slither does for me..
I hear the blues and feel oh elton's back on the piano again trying to make some masterpiece.

So what you are saying is  if GNr had a different name, you wouldnt be making those comparisons?
Your entitled to your opinion. But its funny how you quickly dismiss material from one band and it doesnt come up when another band does something. The point im getting at is that it seems like people liek you will always complain about whatver new gnr does....

Why are you comparing The Blues to NR or Estranged? Is The Blues an 9min+ epic? IS it supposed to be Axls new masterpiece?
If you wanna compare it to a song liek DOnt cry by all means knock it down from that level....but to compare it to a song like NR and Estranged is ridonkulous...

So being that Axl has done piano ballads in the past he can no longer do a piano ballad because he would just be doing the same thing over and over agian?

you hear that from the fans...
or maybe he decided to play a new song for the fans just to bridge the gap until the album is out.


GNr will never achieve world domination liek old grn did. Whether CD is great or not. Its impossible for a rock band at achieve that kind of staus in the music industry. GNR and Nirvana were the last to do so. Its a completely different world and musical landscape. Too many factors come into play....

With that being said, that doesnt mean gnr cant put out a great album. If you want to define the albums success on where the band will stand in comparison to old gnr, you are going to win that argument. But if the album is great and the rock fans eat it up and its a respected album by fellow muscians then in my eyes GNr will be a success.

You will always find a reason not to liek the new material or give the material a chance. I guess its hard to argue about this because its music and its not like sports wher eyou have facts etc. BUt it just seems as if the main reason why the new stuff and the new band will never meet your criteria is because there is no slash and duff.
The new material will always fall short of groundbreaking, new, we waited for this?, etc. NAd im not proclaiming that it will be any of those things. But I know I will be fair and honest when Im reviewing CD. If its great Ill be the first one to tell you and if it blows Ill also be the first to tell you.

Howdy Younggunner,
First I want to say that I've been reading your mails for a long time now and you're an excellent contributor! Well done fellow gunner!! : ok:

 However, I think your comment here
"Your entitled to your opinion. But its funny how you quickly dismiss material from one band and it doesnt come up when another band does something. The point im getting at is that it seems like people liek you will always complain about whatver new gnr does...."

I think is unfair. Go back through this thread, nobody is try the old VR Vs nu-GNR thing here and scant mention has been made about the old/new GNR members either. The coparisons I made that people responded to were to The Blues vs. NR and Silkworms vs. similar material by The Prodigy mainly.  This thread is Axl-centric in that I feel that this 'musical revolution' thing is just OTT going on the material we've been given.

I asked for cold, hard analysis of The Blues against similar works by Axl, particularly NV. I just think after 10 years of trying this song is just not in the same league as his older work and I find The other offerings to be lacking too. I also said the same of the VR guys so its not a 'VR vs GNR' or a 'lets bag on the new guys' thread.

VR get some leeway in public because the preception is that they are a 'new' band. People mention that its a great start for such a young band. This will put pressure on them becaue their next album doesn't raise the bar significantly (because they've matured)  they'll be in choppy seas.

Axl on the other hand has held the GnR name so the world thinks this man has been slavishly writing his comeback album for 10 years. My point is that after 10 years this is a song that would have made the lower end of UYII in its day. It sounds dated, and has many fans here unimpressed. That is not good after 10 years.

So to summarise:

1. 'The Blues' struggles when put beside similar mid tempo Axl creations like NV, Estranged and even Breakdown.
2. 'Silkworms' as an electronica song fails to stand up beside its 'peers' like work from NIN, The Chemical Brothers, The Prodigy and Crystal Meth.
3.  'ChinDem' as a song seems to lack a hook after the opening verse ends.
4. 'Oh My God' disappeared form public view despite a place on a film and a rare one page statement by Axl released to MTV about the songs meaning.

So to finish, CD will be in my pocket and yours, we'll listen to it and love it for sure, I'll be fucking amazed if we don't.
BUT, just to say again, the new material sounds either: old fashioned (Blues)or too much of a stylistic stretch (Silkworms)  or just plain ordinary (Oh My God).
As I said I hope I have to eat a lump of shitty 'sorry pie' when CD see the light of day.
peace,
Intercourse.

You laugh first. :smoking:?


GNR is unique. So are all the great bands. No need to limit their possibilities, like norway said. When AFD was a masterpiece, coming CD can be the magnum opus. If not then the next one can be. Regardless, I will enjoy it for what it is.

Also you may not know but there are still billions of people who aren?t into AFD in the world and may love CD in place of your 2 millions.

Who decide this music is superior to the other one, to begin with? Music talks directly to you. It reflects your heart. None but you decide if you like this one for yourself.

Moreover, regarding the world domination, what?s the big deal with it? You mean the songs dominating charts of the world are all that good n ground breaking for you?

I?m pretty sure I?ll like it better than AFD= Chinese Democracy will be bigger than AFD for me.

Yg I don't want to argue, you just asked me directly so I said something.. Everyone doesn't have to like certain songs.. I used nr n estranged because those were to big piano balads gnr has had success with..

As far as the revolution I was definetly talking about fans saying this, it's even in the title that's what I was refering to..If someone says there will be this album that will top them all and has never heard one lick of the album then to say my feelings I have to go by the only material I've heard..

If gnr had a different name then it wouldn't be gnr, I wouldn't use the comparison simply because it's a project in which has nothing to do with gnr, he also would only be a 5fth so to speak of the band that gave us those songs so expecting all that from one guy is a bit much to ask.... If there's a reincarnation of an older group you have to compare the present material with the past, it only makes sence..

As for contraband you can think three or 5 songs suck and that would be your right and you make like others, so far the 5 boots haven't really gotten me like an old guns song, it's as simple as that.. This has nothing to do with the album cd, but this is of the material I have heard.. Everyone seems to say it's teh weaker of the big guns so why can't I just not like the song..?

Maybe I like contraband alot because I wasn't expecting it to be any huge deal in any way, I just expected something of some guys jamming, some basic ballads n hard rockers..

I'm more of a meat n potatos type of person, the side dishes are ok, but not important..

There can be no comparison to AFD and CD. For Axl to do an album in the style of AFD would be an artistic step backwards in my opinion. Remember people that Axl is doing a follow-up to UYI, so CD, will have to be bigger sounding (Axl has some pretty big shoes to fill there, but and 8-piece band may be able to do the trick :) ) At the same time though UYI's were almost the albums that killed 80's rock because the music world was taken by storm by grunge a year after they were released.

I personally don't think that CD will be "ground breaking" but it definately will sound (and be) bigger than Appetite. ?I have a feeling, that, as a whole, the album will have an enormous sound (see the orchestra thread) but it won't create a musical revolution because, frankly, there are no rock bands (other than Metallica) that have the ability to create a musical masterpiece in this day and age.

The musical revolution will come when a few young bands rise up from obscurity and create a new 'sound' for rock. (it happened with poison, warrant, G'n'R and tesla in the '80's; Pearl Jam, STP, Nirvana, AIC in the early '90's; Marilyn Manson, Korn, Limp and Tool in the late '90's; and with bands like Sum41, Blink182, Simple plan, (fuckin etc., etc., etc.) nowadays. (God music blows right now!! :crying: ), G'n'R is simply too old and out of touch with youth now to be 'cool' for the young crowd and they are the one's buying the records and ,they, in turn drive the market, what they want gets play. and unfortunately I don't think the young'uns will want to hear uncle Axl speak. think about it. I grew up listening to G'n'R do you think my Daughter will think g'n'r is cool. No, because I like it she will probably think it's lame. ?How many people on here think that their parents listen to cool music? I know mine don't.

In summary, I look forward to hearing CD because I want to hear how Axl has evolved from UYI's, but, as a whole I don't think that it'll get much air time, other than on classic rock stations, and as such, will not be a musical revolution as some people want to believe.

It's a new band 2 me, axl's voice and music with other musicians, i compare to that
-Not the x-members earlier work or contributions except paul and buckethead

but the name do have a certain space and assotiations in peoples heart, that's for sure

Excuse me, but do you call them MUSICAL revolution? Yeah, Beatles, Zep or some pre-mid 70?s bands did create some revolutionary sounds. That was once swept away by punk fashion till GNR brought back the feel of it in the 80?s. That?s my understanding.

neemo maybe he should give up if he needs to top every album he puts out.. I think he would be lucky to even equal the illusions, that music is amazing and very well rounded.. How many groups put out albums like the illusions later in life or at all?

I personally think axl would have slipt under the radar with a very good album if he did it sooner around when he came back.. I think maddy would have done pretty good. SHame he's become the butt of so many jokes, now everyone has these pre made thoughts about him and this mystery album.

I think all the waiting and hype has made his life harder and some could have been avoided..


I agree about the kids music compared to yours..
I think alot of younger kids will not see the cool guy we did when he was young and raw.. Most older lead singers looked lame to me as a kid, when i saw jagger, tyler, stewart, sir paul, and poeople like that I never thought it was cool..

I sometimes wonder if he feels if it would be better off if the album remaind the biggest masterpiece to never see the light of day, all his fans think he has the best album ever underwraps, maybe it's safer for axl in his fan's minds then in their cd players..

I can't even allow myself to believe that one day I will be holding a copy.. It's like I picture myself with a shotgun and a broken dial for my stereo so no one can bother me..

BUt why are you comparing the blues to NR. They arent even the same type os songs. NR is an epic production. The blues is a regular ballad. So why would you compare a song that Axl says will not even be a single to one of GNRs biggest singles. If GNR we would have heard one of the big guns then you would be right and fair in terms of comparing songs between eras.

but we arent talking about world reception. We do not know yet how the world will react to the new gnr material. We are talking about the fans who undertsand that these are 2 complete and different bands.

Many would disagree. BUt again the songs we have heard are not the "comeback" songs. They are fillers/ b sides. They are not even going to be singles!..when we hear the big guns that is when we will know where this band and album stands. What if the new songs, particularly the big 3 are the fillers of the album and they are the "lesser: songs on the album, then what? Ill tell you...we are in for a fukin treat.....if not then all your complaints and points will be valid...

Im not gonna say anything about your opinion of the songs. I strongly disagree but its music and not everyone likes the same stuff. But i will say that I absolutely  LOVE  the new songs. Including silk worms...

I will be the first to tell you that those songs{unless the studios take it up another notch} are not good enough for singles in terms of putting gnr back on the map again. The 3 songs we have heard are like role players. They are the types that help make a team great. Now we are just waiting on the stars of the album. If the big guns are great then the album will be money. If the osngs we have heard are the best then we will have a good album but nothing special.


ok being that gnr havnt done anything right yet...what does a gnr have to sound liek in order for it not to be dated, sound liek old gnr, not be industrail or like prodigy/nin,ordinary or just good?? what will appease you.

Ill ask you again....is The Blues a big piano ballad like estranged and nr?

Maybe its because they enjoy the new songs immensly. If in fact the songs we have heard so far are the "fillers" and not even the singles and the other songs TURN OUT to be masterpieces then the album will be great. That is why peopel are excited. They have a handful of songs that they enjoy and there is SUPPOESED to be more and better ones on the way then that excites people. It has to all turn out but the possibility is there.

I think its pretty safe to say that no matter what name Axl went under he would still be compared to old gnr.....

Im not saying you cant compare. All im saying is you cant compare old gnrs hits to new gnrs filler songs or songs that wont even be on the album.

I never said you cant liek the song but im saying you cant compare The Blues to NR. Just like I cant compare Slither WTTJ or PC or somethin like that.

So you werent expecting anything big from 3 players that were once a major part of the biggest band in the world? Yet you are expecting something huge from the other member who is the sole member based on hype and keeping the name? Interesting

So if Axl went under a different name and still didnt release an album and the mystique and everything is what it is liek today...you wouldnt have high expectations?

If I go how you are going I can say Im expecting jack shut from gnr because they have 1 member of gnr. ANd i should have expected more from vr because they have had 3...i dont wnat this to be a gnr vr thread so fuk it...

Then why are you here busting balls? You know that new gnr are not going to make sleazy rock songs like afd and stuff liek that. You know that Axl wanst to explore and try different things. Things you already know you dont like. Why are you here when you know you aren not going ot get old gnr sound?

What the hell do the new songs have to sound like in order for them not to sound like old gnr,outdated, or trying to be something they are not? Maybe Axl should just can the whole band and not make any music. Its ok for the old guys to keep it simple and just jam but its not ok for axl to explore or do whatevr he wants to do...

All im asking from gnr is that they continue where they left off of the illusions. Whatver that sounds like is what im anticipating. Im not expecting gnr to rewrite music in terms of creatign a new genre.

I know, why try to do something better than what you did last ::)

Thats the problem. Axl doesnt want to just do good enough to get by, impress, or "slip under the radar". He has decided he will put everything he has intop making his last musical contribution. It has taken him approx 5 yrs so far. He and the band have done everything they could to make th ebest dam music possible and thats it. Probably no more gnr after this. Axl wants to go out with a bang. He wants to create something that is better than his previosu work. Why is that wrong? Because its not in your hand yet?

now it wont because?

But they would have seen the cool guy if he remained in the spotlight. Axl was never going to stay young and leather wild. He ages too. SO even if old gnr stayed around he would still have aged.

I promise you...if the music is better than whats out there kids will like gnr.

I think the album will be great but I am just not sure where the airplay on radio or MTV/VH1 is going to come from to make them a world power again. Radio is formatted in a way now where rock is only played on a few select stations, where top 40 dominates radio. Same principle applies to MTV. They will do well in the Modern Rock/Mainstream rock charts, but they will not have a chance to crack top 40 given the landscape of the music world. Things are different now and just having a good album doesn't translate to mass sales and popularity.

But the red hot chili peppers, the strokes, darkness, the hives, ana etc are? rockbands and that air on mtv and have radioplay?

you're right,but Axl known that,abd tjhis was one of the reasons why gnr didn't excist.
Axl is the man who know what to do!!1

However,
This band has the same head but the rest is renewed.
So it?s not really at a later stage.
The chemistry of the Band is fresh n new.
In fact it?s rather early in the career.

whoah... very cool way to put that ppbebe? : ok:

the *ahem* one-fifth aka Axl Rose has got a new band with new visions and talents to work with

so then he is in a position to "do an Appetite" - not in the sense of the sound!? but, in the sense that they are set up to make something that is different from everything that is out on the scene
the fact that they are not 19 is NOT a disadvantage
most popular music IS created by 19 year olds - that is true
but what these experienced human beings with seasoned talent are capable of creating...
due to their life's experiences they have to draw on and having put things in perspective AND
after stheir many years of playing their instruments without achieving the kind of success the individual members of GN'R achieved...
and to be still perservering with their musical careers
these guys aren't at a point where "oh we've made it" and become comfortable and settled in and decided their done
- even tommy in his success with the Replacements was not satisfied or fullfilled - career wise or financially set (that is my impression)  EDITED
its like he is only getting started!
these guys are hungry and fresh and their chemistry has been growing together over the few years as they have joined this venture one by one
they started out as a band the way A LOT of bands start out - with different members being tried out and playing mostly cover songs - hehe? (and why do bands do this - for one and the same reason - to please and entertain their audience)
the cool thing is they had the original founding member of the band they were covering fronting them? :D
and they've went through their one-off gigis just like gnr did back in the day
and they've had their cancelled gigs and riots and their own "hell tour" if you will
they have been through shit that many new bands - like GN'R back in day - go through

Axl with the new members is /has been preparing a retrn of Guns N' Roses because he never wanted it to die....
even in 1992 when he and slash and duff were making their partnership agreement -
he included terms that would ensure that Guns N' Roses would die if only if HE died....
he meant to keep GN'R alive so long as their is breath in him
he did not and could not entrust that to anyone else
and he has been nurturing this, his baby - GN'R - for years to see it re-born and to see it live and breath and fullfill all that he knows that it is capable of doing

well... I'm kinda off topic - so i'll get back/to my point

like ppbebe said - GN'R are in a position to do what any 'new band' on the scene has the opportunity to do
offer something fresh
something different
something that will be emulated and appreciated for years to come
and in many ways they are in one of the better positons than I can imagine any other new band could be in to do just that
:)

:D Yay!? they are the people
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
              Who got fun 'n' games
? ? ? ? ? ? ? they got everything we want
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Honey they know the names
? ? ? ? ? ? ? They are the people that can find
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Whatever we may need

 :rant: Be warned! Be warned! Guns n' Roses!!! :headbanger:

We all know the album will be huge.  Bigger than Appetite though...I think it will be close, if advertised correctly.  They need to market this album like GN'R is a "new" band, and show some footage of this grand studio everyone claims they record in, and then release a huge epic sounding single.  I know CD has hours and hours of work poured into it and it's fresh with this band, so yes it will go #1, and yes it will be HUGE.

Grog,

WIthout ever hearing one note and seeing how the public reacts to the album how do you know that it will be as big or near as big as afd?

I have no doubt just with the gnr name to help carry it that it will sell good regardless of the material, but to sell 15 million copies these days is unheard of, lots of people download shit, we will buy the album but you know what I mean..

As for publicity they definetly need to do something, I can picture alot of mtv thing to promote the video and a sit down with kurt loder...

Thats what american idol albums are for : ok: Don't think gnr cares about that

nirvana wen't against what was popular a the time and hit it big

gnr can be setting the trends instead of following them...
you're not starting a revolution by doing whats popular at the time

the revealed songs shows they using a lot of the new sounds and blends music with various new and old music genre
we'll get single types of songs when cd is at launch, no point in revealin such songs when an albums is not done,
-so the new songs are as they are for a reason

We all wan't gnr to be a commercial success again, and if it's a failure to some if kids don't think axl are sexy and hip enough-
- there are other people in the band

I think it's not insane to belive cd will be bigger than anything and lead to a revolution

gnr is one of the best rockbands there is, and they'll stand and deliver (cross my fingers) :)

- it will be #1 for sure, no doubt on it
- for the rest, all will depend on the quality of the music...and the promotion.

Nirvana was different, even though gnr is a "new" band it still comes with a stigma or title of what it's like wether bias or not.. ANyone who has ever started a switch in popular music was unknown for most parts or on their first time around..

Which pressie would you like, something on your demand or a surprise?

An earth shattering surprise for me please. :smoking:

Nirvana was different, even though gnr is a "new" band it still comes with a stigma or title of what it's like wether bias or not.. ANyone who has ever started a switch in popular music was unknown for most parts or on their first time around..

as far as a revolution maybe, but only the name has those associations
look at kylie minoque, pop in the 80's and bigger now in her 40's? :) (she's hot too :love:) :hihi:

gnr and axl will for sure have that possibillety and musicwise they maybe break a lot of barriers
(dunno if barriers was the right word, my english is bad)

agree that a revolution lies mostly in the unknown, new and unexpected, (those weren't your words though :-\)

Kylie, I remember when she first came out with her cover of the locomotion, no one really remembered her, she was in the same league as tiffany, and debbie gibson.. 

la la la la la la la la la la la.. Kylie has a smoking little body, that's why I payed attention and she came back during a hottie period in music.. SHe came n went though..

I never said a big movement or change in music was not possible I just feel people are getting a little overboard without hearing any of the new tracks.. Gnr could fit into the emo style with some big ballads, Now I DIDN'T saythey were EMO, but people seem to be into those lovey dovey songs, and keene seems to be accepted so there's love and the piano..

As long as it's rocking and has energy it all should be good..

Everything will be up to axl, depends on his will to bring the album to the people

YES : ok:

hope for lots of rockers on cd :peace:

Inexpert and unknown Bands lead new movements n fashions and become the order of the day. I don?t consider all of those trends as the revolution in MUSIC. Most of them have nothing innovative musically. Their sounds are revival n Renaissance at most.

Beatles was one of them and wellknown as catchy pop rock n roll band before they started to release revolutionary music after the album Rubber Sole.
Jimmy Page was well recognized as Yard Bards guitarist before he started Led Zeppelin.

Then again There are always unknown Indy kinda groups doing something innovative but often stay at the minor status. It seems like Bands debut with the extraordinary music can?t start big music movements. Offbeat.

Music revolutions have been done by experienced musicians.

Don't be too exigent. Personately, I am not waiting for a musical revolution. a good album + a tour + good sales would already be fantastic.  Don't ask Axl too much, he is just a human.

[quote author=Eva GnRAxlRosette link=topic=16943.msg292525#msg292525
like ppbebe said - GN'R are in a position to do what any 'new band' on the scene has the opportunity to do
offer something fresh
something different
something that will be emulated and appreciated for years to come
and in many ways they are in one of the better positons than I can imagine any other new band could be in to do just that
:)

ppbebe I realize now that MUSICAL REVOLUTION was a bit of a stretch, how about, changed the music scene for a few years?

the point was is that older musicians have a harder time winning over young fans, its usually the young bands that identify with the kids more (or at least appeal to them) and without the young crowd there is no way that Guns will be a revolutionary band.

And Guns are not a "new" band, with the name the band will always have their songs compared with NR, WTTJ, Don't Cry, Estranged, SCOM, etc, etc. its hard to start fresh (no matter many new members there are) when there is so many great hits above their head. Don't get me wrong, G'n'R are my alltime favorite band, I am really looking forward to the new album, and I loved the show I saw in 2002 and WILL see them again if they ever tour again, but, Guns and Roses are now classic rock and any new songs they put out will be catagorized as such and kids don't dig classic rock, and because of this they will not be nearly as huge as they were in the early '90's. ?therefore now musical revolution.

Sorry, but that's my opinion.

That's a renaissance not a revolution in music. A musical revolution is extremely difficult to make for any band. Since it?s said that all possible ideas, forms n tunes had been exhausted for ages already.

As I said, as far as they give me what they want to offer to the world, I'm happy. Seeing the world love their gift too, I?ll be even happier. If I see a lil Innovation on it, I'll bliss out.

The musical revolution is just a talk. It?s said to be impossible for any band.
But if any, GN?R is the one. They?re the right people the closest to it right now.
That's all.

There is a musical revolution in being ....

Sound sculptures based on the earth?s natural movement and sounds ...My cousin invented it.

Here you can read a bit :

Lorella Abenavoli ( that's her name plus she is very pretty) , electroacoustic sculptor


The idea behind this sculpture was the creation of a temporal, sensitive, sound space, allowing us to listen to the very depths of the earth: a continuous terrestrial sound radiating from the heart of the architecture. The earth moves. The lunar and solar tides, which transform it, the energy with which it vibrates, as well as that which it expels, the perpetual telluric movements mixed with the celestial, creating the intimate and temporal form of the earth.

Le Souffle de la terre (The breath of the earth) is a sculpture, which uses sound in order to reveal its form in time and space. The sounds are created in real-time from the earth?s movements, whose waves are recorded then reworked thanks to digitizing techniques and the creation of a new piece of software designed especially for this project. As such, they can be made audible and transformed into a work of art in any given space. ;D

************************************

From that, you can go many interesting derived sounds and musics. :hihi:

Totally agree. :yes:
Totally agree.?:yes: Don't.

Ask not Axl alone.
A leader is a human. GNR is a band of 6 humans not of A single human.
And the upcoming album is a joint work of 8 talented individuals, not of a single gifted individual.
It's A band of people with Various styles n thoughts but one heart, not with identical styles n ideas but different intentions.
Ask the band whatever.  :smoking:

yeah, just a delivery is as a succes to me :hihi:

has the anticipation of an album ever been as prolific as the anticiaption of CD?
i mean it is mentioned everywhere... from RS to small town newspapers and webpages

the release of the CD in and of itself will be a legendary accomplishment

Bring it on Guns!

I think it's more of a running joke than tons of anticipation..

Don't be too negative. I think It's both. and you know, all the people who have criticized Axl and? who have made fun of this album will be the first one to buy it and to listen to it. There exists a strong anticipation for this album. I'm curious to see how much copies it will sell the first week....it's going to be a #1 for sure, but how much copies I 'm very curious to know it.

Of course it's both, but who are all these people waiting for the album>?? I mean most people I know my age don't even know anything about new gnr or a long awaited album..

Just like I like other groups that were popular when gnr was big I'm not out following what they are doing now or expecting anything new.. I think it's more extreme fans who care and countdowns stations like vh1 who get a kick out of this.

One of the biggest attractions are how axl n gnr went out like a fart in the wind, people are interested in axl's mystery they want to see what he does next.. People don't understand coming back for the vmas introducing a new band then shit canning a tour three weeks into it then 2 years later no one knows nothing./.

There's alot of very good bands that have disappeared, and it's mostly their bigger fans that follow their careers waiting for their big comeback.

I will enjkoy whatreevr, but regardless axl has become like a marlon brando, or barbra streisand who makes arare apperance and become a recluse and is good material for snl type shows and late night shows.. Look at wacko jacko, he's erratic, crazy and people always wonder what he's doing, then finally he comes back adn doesn't sell well album wise..

Peopel follow kiss all over and go to their shows but their albums don't sell.. We'll just have to wait n see..

It's like anna nicole smith, or mike tyson people all flock to them because they are wacky and want to see what crazyness occurs next..
I love his music,i'm just saying how the outside world might see it..

think about 1 thing: The Greatest Hits album sales figures.
Don't worry for record sales, they will sell a lot when the album comes out.

well initially Chinese Democracy will sell but it will need to be revolutionary to not be a dissapointment. axl better have some aces up his sleeve on this one.

It's somehow history making already,  :-\ they are snoozin for the guiness :hihi:

a revolution is a thing against the established or???

music revolution, hmm...

Now that Brain has been quoted as saying that Chinese Democracy will be GN'R's Led-Zeppelin's 2, do most of you still doubt that CD will be bigger than AFD?? While AFD is my personal favorite album bext to UYI2, I've never heard AFD compared to one of rock's greatest albums, like Zeppelin 2.? : ok: :drool:

-- Guns N RockMusic

could this be a rock/opera album ?

 I think the album, lets face it, is going to revive or revolutionize "gnr".... but in know way 

will it bring on a revolution in music. Maybe possibly change the record company in finding


real fucking talent, yet the record industry is too money hungry for that.  It wont be a

album like nevermind.  I mean Nirvana revolutionized rock music whether you want to say

it was for the good or bad.  I respected the fact there was a new rock era forming with

grunge.  Yet they made the overproduced, decadent and talented rock stars look like

douche bags yet in essence they were underproduced, decadent and somewhat talented

douche bags, who killed rock and roll and heavy metal.  It also made anything connected

to that peroid of rock music look stupid,

and it loved to discredit alot of talent, like gnr.  Let face it grunge had a bit following, but

with Kobain killing himself it made grunge short lived.  What would have happened if the

grunge scene never existed and rock was free to roam and rock was rock with no labels,

no movement in one fray of rock music, would we see this bullshit music, we will never

no.  It was just a load of one track minds who said: will follow this leader and following

just one type of rock will allow it  to fade out and bore you senseless.  Its simple they

were good, but lets face it they were no gnr.  So kirt Kobain kind of led the way for the

other angst ridden folks to come aboard and grunge was this hit knew thing.  But when

the fad faded out and nirvana died everything else died with it.  Like we are seeing now,

the pop punk little talentless fuckers {New found Glory..etc} they all jumped on the band

wagon and it is this hit new thing.  We all know it was not everyday that a great band

like GnR came along.  Infact, I believe as I think most of you believe GnR was one of the l


last real rock band.  Saying that, I think when Chinese Demorcracy does come out it will

be incredible, but it wont revolutionize or change other forms of rock or anything.  It will

stand alone, and hopefully shine a light back to what music is supposed to sound like. But

lets face it people dont have the money to make  a 13 million dollar album, or to even

wait 10 years to perfect it so the chance for another band to duplicate it is a fantasy. 

Only Axl Rose, apparently its the record company that is axl's little bitch and not vice

versa.  He is a legend, a mystery, a recluse and he still has got something up his sleeve. 

Lets hope it comes out dare I say before we all die, morbildly speaking.



merry christmas gunners and a  happy new year :peace: :beer:

I decided to re-emerge this topic. What's your feeling right now about the sales?

First & foremost i don't know what all this shit about cd outselling appetite or how much bigger it's gonna be is all about.

Records are there to be broken .When appetite was released it was the biggest selling debut album of all time.(that has since changed).

When cd is released it will break new records i'm sure but you have to remember that the world has been waiting a long  long  time for cd & the curiosity alone will make it huge.

I for one will not compare cd to anything released before wether it be appetite or a greatest hits from ingelbert humperdink.

Roll on the elusive OFFICIAL statement & Roll on Slane castle next AUGUST.

Ps Remember were you heard it First.   

That's because for hard-rock genre albums, AFD destruction has become the standard by which albums are compared against. Should tell you something about the magnitude of the album.

WOW, my first post on HTGTH has been revived.

chinese democracy wont lead to a musical revolution and if you think it will you are nuts and they will be lucky to go platinum in a relatively short period of time. its not the most anticipated record ever, only by the fans. most people on the planet dont even know it exists so get it through your delusional little minds.

i bouth agree and disagree with you here FLASH. I think alot of people are aware on the GNR situation. Alot more people then we know! Everytime im on the city and get to talk to someone about music, and mention GNR. The standard comment is. "Is Axl gonna release the new album soon?" People do know about it even if they are not as dedicated as we are.

I think that if the Original lineup got together today, they would sell alot of record, but records that would not top the old stuff. Just like Rolling Stones or Aerosmith when they release albums now days...

But the new band are in a different situation. There are new people, new style, new combinations, witch i think have more potential to be a "NEW BIG BAND" And who knows.. maybe make a music revolution, who knows?

Also, remember, that people dont stop buying music even if they pass 30 years old. And there is a lot of 30 years old.. even 40 and 50 years old boys and girls who will grab this album, because they remember GNR! And if GNR also can make an apell to the younger fans, then the fanbase will be very big..

If Axl does to CD as he did with AFD and UYIs then it will be a big hit.  GnR has the image and crediblity already.  All he has to do is put out the few really good songs on one album (like AFD and UYI). Usually a band has 1 hit to a cd these days.  The media is going to have a field day with GnR when CD is released. 

I don't think it will sell 14 million copies or anything but I won't be suprised if it sells 7 million.

I think you isn't right!!!
Chinese democracy will be great album for sure(I think Axl is one of the most talented rock musicans ever),but revolution is to high word!!!
Why?
Because Axl now have 43,when cd come out 44 years so young peoplewon't to see idol or something high in him!!!

I think not.... because once his new Album comes out it will spark the older listeners and make new listeners listen due to the history of the band .... this record could bomb and still be great : ok:

Chinese Democracy won't come close to touching Appetite For Destruction.  No way, no how.

Of course I hope I'm wrong but IMO CD will be damn lucky to sell as well as one of the two Illusions but I feel that'll be a stretch.

Album's sold does not always = greatness.

I think we should wait until we actually HEAR the new album before we comment on how good it may be...

Your first statement is true.  But in response to the thread-starter's original prediction about revolutions and whatnot, weak album sales ain't gonna break any new ground or launch any revolutions.  Hence, I don't think comparing it to Appetite is even humorously plausible.  With Axl's state in the media and casual fans' minds it would take a monstrous, brilliantly conceived juggernaut AND mega album sales to equal or top Appetite.  And while it may not be fair to shoot the album down before hearing it, for speculation sake, the latter isn't very likely.

Bollocks. The sales of Nevermind bollocks wasn't that huge.

It led to a revolutionary change of scene.
but this or that caused by nirvana's nevermind shouldn't be called "musical" revolution as they were not really musically new.

Each movement wasn't done by a band singlehandedly.

There will be no musical revolution, but I hope it will be huge. Something as huge as ""The Eminem Show" in the 2000's. between 15 and 20 million copies. Rock music really needs something huge now.

OK, I'm a huge, huge gunner, and I want to see the new album be a smash and all...but to compare it to "Sgt. Pepper" or say it will revolutionize music? How 'bout we at least get a release date first.

However I can see a revolutionary change happening at least to the GNR fans.
Maybe it is very slowly under way now already.

like the above mentioned movements it changes your sense of values unexpectedly.

It will not be bigger than AFD. But it could spark a new rock movement, but thats if its even a rock album. : ok:

Hate to break it to you but the Sex Pistols' music wasn't new either - go check out The Stooges

I meant both this and that, ie Sex Pistols n nirvana by "THEY". >:(

After the European tour, the US tour soon to follow and the leaks, I thought it time to ask this question again (hard to believe it's been almost 2 years since my first post).  So, what do you guys think now?

I think to even consider the possibility that CD will overshadow AFD is one of the funniest things ever discussed on here.

Mumbling talentless rappers and emo scum are all the rage now not 80s rockers with hip hop tinged piano ballads. There'll be no musical revolution whatsover.

No revolution not bigger than Appetite, just a amanzing album good enought to be the best piace of music in years, one of the best albums out there.? :beer:

I could really care less, as long as I like it.

If you're looking for another response, I'd say, no. It may sell well, but it will not be critically well-received, no matter how good it is. The press is very cynical about Axl. I strongly doubt that it will sell 13 million copies. Even if it's insanely popular, it's very difficult to sell that many copies of anything these days.

A musical revolution is not possible in the industry these days - not from a major label, anyway.

I didn't read other than the topic, but no.  ::) :P

Now, after the leaks and having heard the new songs Live, I still think it will be big, but not as big as AFD or The Use Your Illusion albums. None of the new songs are as great as Jungle, or November rain, or Paradise, or You could be mine etc... the best of the old band is still the best material of GN'R of all time.
I think Chinese Democracy could sell 10 million copies worldwide. No more.

I am not going to put the wagon before the horse. ;)

It'll be a revolutution to us on the GnR fan boards. We'll finally be able to argue about the music. Does it compare to the old band? Is it better then Appetite? Was building the chicken coop worth it for these solos?

Revolution? To me, Guns N' Roses never started anything beyond what they did between the five of them. No one could touch GN'R back in the day. No one could sound like them. Axl's voice was one of a kind. It was an unattainable sound. They existed as an original, without having to suffer the risk of being emulated. And I think that's a good thing. GN'R will never be associated with any type of commercially created movement or trends. Musical revolutions, so to speak, have never proved consistent or real. They are usually a few good rock bands who never wanted or intended to be part of a so called revolution, but were lumped into a category with a bunch of copycat bands who are trying to sound like them (Grunge, being a prime example). The media creates trends, not musicians.
And I hope that Chinese Democracy will be as unattainable and as impossible to duplicate as Appetite.
We need more bands who stand on their own, instead of belonging to a category with a vast number of bands all looking and sounding the same. A true revolution, per definition, would be to break up the trends and fashions we now experience in the media and are told is rock n' roll, and inspire individualism. I think that's why GN'R is my all time favorite band, because it's one of the few rock n' roll bands that cannot be imitated.

as much as we would  all love cd to be as good as appetite the evidence is not there so far - yes i love better and c.i.t.r but cmon people they simply dont match up to sweet child ,welcome, paradise city, its so easy etc. Appetite for destruction came from a band in harmony with the hunger and desire of  people with nothing to lose, not yet touched by success and at their creative peak - the fact they were so good back then make us think and hope we'll get more of the same and the delay of the release heightens that feeling more, almost like a unattainable holy grail .
i only hope gunslinger doesnt need to bring this thread up again in another two years as we'll know the answer by then

no shit, the new songs are demos (not finished tracks).  ::)

'Chinese Democracy will be bigger than Appetite and lead to a music revolution'

- Dude, that was HILARIOUS! Thanks for brightening up my day! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

couldn't have said it better!  : ok:

Now what I think is that Chinese Democracy will be a fantastic album but bigger than the Illusions or the Appetite??? No...the reason is somewhere between fans' hunger for the old crew and just the different time that we are living. It just not the same as it used to be 18 years ago for example. Then, the rock n' roll was something like anarchy. Rebellious music for people that have problems and want to escape or something. Now it's different. CD will have huge success towards GN'R fans. I just can't see, even with a killer video and single, how it will affect the world. I hope I'm wrong, though.

No comment. Needs to hear the album(s).

from what has been played live and leaked CD is going to be good. I own over 300 albums on CD and over 500 mp3 tracks. There's not much new music out there i want to buy right now. CD is on my list of wants.

It's be good to hear how the new Scissor Sisters album sounds and if they can match the quality of their first album.

well, i was thinking a lot about how this new record would be and how Axl thinks about his music and what kind of music he wants to get out of his chests....

i stopped thinking about that when Axl said "nobody knows what s going on in the band, everybody THINKS they know something, but nobody really does"! add to this , Axl's saying "when it ll come out, it will, go on with your lifes"...... :peace:

i think here lies the point : let s all have our life, like what Axl is doing or not, have patience or not (about the release of CD), enjoy the live gigs and when it comes out we can talk again about all those things (if CD it s better than AFD etc)  : ok:

The title of this thread alone warrants a laugh.  (no personal offense to the author implied)

We gotta let the dreamers dream. :rofl:


Even if CD came close in sales to AFD, it could never surpass the impact that AFD had. The musical landscape is entirely different.

Even if it was the next Nevermind, certain people would never give it the credit anywy.

So, just enjoy for what it is when it's out. Why compare?



/jarmo

Because that's kind of the question of the thread

Well, I'm one of the people that wont be comparing it, and I dont look forward to the 300-400 page CD review thread with half of the thread consisting of posts that give AFD comparisons. Its not the same band. Its like comparing Snakepit to VR. Roth Van Halen to Van Hagar. Led Zep to Robert Plant. Ozzy to Sabbath. I think CD can stand on its own two legs without the need to compare it to an almost 20 year old album.

The only thing CD should ever be compared to is its follow up album.

i think the real competition [if it is one] is not between AFD and Chinese Democracy , but between what CD will really be and what we've hoped for

Thats a really good point. :beer: In my opinion, it cant really live up to the hype and expectations. But it can still be a masterpiece.

I agree with you completely. However, they are drawing some comparisons by using the same name. While observation would tend to indicate that this is an entirely different band, aside from the singer and keyboard player, the band name is the same. I respect Axl's right to use the name, but if it was a band that had all the original members you would expect that some comparisons to their previous work would be made - at least in terms of quality, if not impact. By virtue of using the name Guns n Roses, he is implying a certain continuity between what is happening now, and what started in the 80's. It doesn't bother me, but you can't deny that it does invite comparison.