Here Today... Gone To Hell!

please dont move this to the bon jovi thread, this is kind of a different thing that really has nothing to do with the bon jovi thread

people were bashin bon jovi a tad and i said i could make arguments as to why bon jovi are better than gnr.

now remember gnr, bon jovi, and prince are my co favorite artists of all time, i like them all three equally like children just in different ways.

but someone wanted me to make an argument and i can make arguments as to why gnr are better than bon jovi, i just know that no body will agree with me with my bon jovi bein better and i like defending the underdog, so here is my defense.


in their  hey days  it would probably be a push.

slippery when wet was as big as afd sold nearly as much
new jersey outsold the uyi's individually and bon jovi sold out just as many arenas and stadiums

gnr had one number hit in scom bon jovi has had 4 number ones "you give love a bad name,livin on a prayer,bad medicine,ill be there for you plus more top ten and top 40 hits

jon also has a number one solo song "blaze of glory, axl's solo song "oh my god" didnt do well.

bon jovi were able to patch up the egos and problems and stick together gnr could not
these days bon jovi are still selling out arenas everywhere, every cd sells multi millions worldwide, last time gnr toured they played to half empty arenas whereas bon jovi sold out every show and even sold out a handful of stadiums.

these bands have totally different styles so its hard to argue the musical parts, gnr's music is certainly more complex but its a different style so its hard to compare.  im not gonna penalize jon cause he didnt have a horrible childhood and life.

bon jovi are a strong band but everyone knows that Jon is the man whereas intenal struggles destroyed Guns N Roses and they are no more because unlike Jon, Axl was unable to compromise with his bandmates and do what the band collectively wanted to do, all i know is bon jovi are still going strong, making records, touring and GNR are finished *old gnr*

Jon also had what was becoming a promising acting career but realizing time was running out for the band he put it on the back burner to release as much music as possible before he gets too old.

i love both bands equally but that was my brief case that can be argued.  GNR's music is more complex, more emotional and deeper, axl has more range as a vocalist although jon is the most underrated vocalist and front man in rock history.

jon has the brad pitt syndrome, people cant look past their appearance to give them the credit they deserve.
* indicates number one hits, this is US singles only, i mean bon jovi had like 4 or 5 singles off "these days" but only 3 in the US.
GNR hits                                                     
                             
welcome to the jungle top 40
paradise city top 10
sweet child o mine*
patience top 10
dont cry top 10
november rain  top 10
civil war  not sure
yesterdays not sure
you could be mine top 40
estranged not sure
live and let die not sure
knockin on heavens door not sure
since i dont have you not sure

cant find exact US chart info

i didnt really wanna count cover songs but i did

bon jovi hits
Runaway top 40 hit
livin on a prayer*
you give love a bad name*
wanted dead or alive top ten
lay your hands on me top 40
bad medicine*
born to be my baby  top ten
living in sin     top 1o
ill be there for you*
keep the faith  top 40
bed of roses  top 5
always        top 5
this aint a love song  top 40
its my life  top 40
thank you for loving me  top 40


also jon had  a number 1 hit with blaze of glory


although WTTJ is one of the most famous stadium anthems at ballgames, bon jovi's "its my  life" was chosen as the song that will always be played at the end of superbowls to commemorate the victory as they show the highlights.

bon jovi sparked the MTV unplugged series plus were the only "hair band" to survive the 80's and grunge and still be a formidable band today.


hey give me credit for trying everyone, i was challenged and i said fuck it, lets see how great of a devils advocate i really am! i think i did pretty well!

This is totally irrelevant, it has nothing to do with "which band is better". Fuckin' Limp Bizkit sells stadiums, and what does that tell you?


This, on the other hand is very relevant. And you're saying yourself that there's more to GNR's music. So that's it I guess, we have a winner.


So that's one of the reasons Bon Jovi is better? Hah. Since when has compromising yourself been a good thing? I'm glad Axl isn't a commercial whore like Bongiovi.

Some very good points there I think the reason why is Bon Jovi are still getting there stuff out there and getting new fans where GN'R has been very quite but things will pick up I hope

Bon Jovi are okay, they got some great stuff - but their later stuff is well.... :nervous:

They are not even in GNR's league though

They have had more hits? They have sold more albums? So? They are COMMERICIAL they are designed for radio, its inoffensive stuff that's unlikley to alienate anyone and always going to sell. Besides they must have twice the albums GNR have and haven't been dead for 10 years.....

Lyrically, musically and for sheer integrity GNR are considerably better, u may enjoy their music more but there is no criteria that supports a view they are actually better than GNR....

Well well well, awesome job mo-ron!  It's clear as day that Bn'J kick Gn'R's ass anyday becuase they've had more hits, the singer had a promising acting career and the band are just best friends forever. Next time just :-X

Bon Jovi started the hair band craze.  Guns N' Roses put an end to that glam shit with their raunch n roll.  GnR is better, Nuff Said.

I just can't stand these posers. Why say such garbage on a Gn'R message board? A bands greatness should never be judged on how many albums or top ten hits they had but the quality of the music.

Ok, I can give you credit for trying, you did try hard it seems.  Please read that argument back to yourself though and think about who is the best band.  To be honest, your argument makes GN'R look the better band!  The only thing you can say against GN'R is that they failed to hold it together, but that doesn't take away from what they actually acheived.  As for sales, sales mean shit.

Bon Jovi are too 'poppy' and the music has nowhere near the rock-credentials that GN'R had.

My verdict: no comparisons.  GN'R are better in every way.

LOL, some people got to the point to know that D is an anti-GN'R fan!  :rofl:

Have you read his post? He's a fan of both bands, he's totally in love with their music, and only wanted to talk about GN'R and Bon Jovi with you, cause I'm sure he thinks a lot of which band is better in this, whics is better in that. He had some good points, but I think that GN'R is so much better, their music made some revolution (although even Nirvana changed the music...), they were more a kick-ass band, more bandmembers had very strong charisma and when they were big, they were bigger than BJ has ever been or will be. But Jon is an awesome singer and Ritchie is a very unique guitarist, I like them, but GN'R was the biggest band of the last 20 years.  :peace:

im not saying bon jovi are better, i was challenged to make arguments.

its a challenge, by no means am i sayin bon jovi are better, musically, lyrically GNR are better it was just a challenge.

Aristotle said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

that is what this is, i made rational arguments, doesnt mean i believe bon jovi are better cause objectively from a musical and lyrical standpoint they probably arent.

but i dont care to throw myself out there to spark some debate!  I do that because i view bon jovi in the class of the GNR's,U2's etc etc but they get absolutely no credit and i think that sucks.

yeah GNR and Nirvana killed hair metal but they neither one killed bon jovi. thats an undisputable fact. Bon Jovi are still popular worldwide, they survived it all.  If they were a shit band, i dont think this would be so.


so instead of calling me a moron how about some facts as to why i am wrong?  ok so i guess i shouldve said bon jovi are a better commercial band, how bout that?

Yep, this thread is my fault  ;D

I don't mind Bon Jovi. Don't like that Prince dude though... :P

Well it does go to show you that Bon Jovi's music has stood the test of time.  Limp Bizkit doesn't sell out stadiums without the help of METALLICA.  There's not many artists that can consistently sell-out arenas & stadiums for 20 years.  Limp Bizkit?  Please, they couldn't sell shit anymore.

Bon Jovi is a GREAT band,no doubt about it,but come on!!!!!!!! None of your arguments convinced anyone that BJ is better than GNR. I don't even know what "better" means.


Oh,and even though I really like Bon Jovi,I think Slippery when wet is an Appetite for pussies.

that was the whole thing, musically they arent better than GNR which was what made it so hard to debate that.

hasnt anyone here ever took a side in a debate just because no one else did and tried to have fun making any kind of case for them?

sort of like a murder case where u know the defendant is guilty but u gotta make a case for them anyway, that was my approach to this thread, TJ and Matt88 provoked me so i tried my best.

GNR musically,lyrically are more complex and deeper and overall better but it was fun tryin to argue it anyway!


how bout jon looks better at 42 than axl does at 42 any disputes there? :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :hihi:

Bon Jovi better than Guns N' Roses?? :o

BLASPHEMY!? >:(

For the love of God, that's like saying Warrant is better than Aerosmith, or Poison is better than Zeppelin.? :no:

Again...

BLASPHEMY!? :rant:

see this is what im talkin about, bon jovi are much closer to GNR than say warrant to aerosmith or poison to zepplin

i get aggravated by the lack of credit Bon Jovi get, its ridiculous how underrated they are. U cant judge a band solely by their hits and most of Bon Jovi's greatest songs are the non singles.

ridiculous comparison.

How about facts instead of calling you a moron?

Music isn't about fuckin facts.  Its about common sense.  All it takes its one listen to a Gn'r song vs. "It's my life" to settle the debate.  moron.

not all GNR songs are better than bon jovi songs

i like most of bon jovi's album non single tracks better than GNR's non singles


Bon Jovi arent epic but they have way more ballads and love songs than GNR and do them better in my opinion with the exception of "estranged"

ill take bed of roses or Always over Dont cry anyday of the week


GNR's music is deeper more emotional, Bon Jovi's music is funner. 

How nice to call someone a moron must be the only insult u can spell junior.

If you wouldve had your mom, a friend, your dog or just whoever read the big words for u in my posts instead of u just skimming over it, u wouldve read where i said that i think musically and lyrically GNR are in fact better but i was challenged to argue what i argued so i obliged TJ and Matt88 and i did the best i could.

read entire posts from now on, its stops u from lookin like a..........

Big words like "funner" i suppose.  That is a big word my dog would use. 

Trust me, I read the posts. I didn't skim over them. What I didn't find however, is a compelling argument.  Instead, just facts which help rationalize your perspective.  There's nothing there so just drop it. Sales facts and figures don't mean shit.  And please, don't resort to criticising people's grammar in a message board when I didn't even spell anything wrong.  That is just grasping for straws mon frere.

i didnt criticize your grammar, i just thought  u failed to see that i said i think GNR are better


everyone knows i love bon jovi and TJ and Matt88 dared/challenged me basically to try and argue that bon jovi are better, so it was just for fun tryin to do the impossible. it was all for fun so u all need to chill!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fr?re*  :P

I love Bon Jovi, although I don't listen to them as much these days, since I own most of their original studio albums and I've listened to them a million times.  GN'R, on the other hand - I've heard each of their albums a million times and I still listen to them all the time.  Maybe that means something?

Perhaps I've grown out of Bon Jovi.  I got into them before I got into GN'R, when I was about 14.  At that point I was in love really for the first time, which was perfect for Bon Jovi power ballads, which really meant a lot to me at the time.  I would hear something like "Bed Of Roses" and it would seem like the most heartbreaking song in the world.  And I was also, I think, more innocent, less cynical, than I am now, so I liked the rootsy homegrown rock feel of a lot of Bon Jovi's later stuff.  It appealed to me in the same way that Bruce Springsteen did and still does.  Funnily enough, when I finally realized that the girl I was in love with wasn't interested in me, what song did I use to get over it?  "November Rain".  That was my first Gn'R album, and I never looked back.

Both Bon Jovi and Guns N' Roses' music means a lot to me.  I've always seen Bon Jovi as just a good rock 'n' roll band, since the first album I bought off them was Crush and that old-fashioned rock attitude has characterized much of their later work.  I know that their early albums were more like hard rock, but then I didn't get into them until I was starting to like hair metal.  Guns are more like hard rock, and they're liked by metal fans too.  They have more attitude than I've ever seen in a rock band.  Axl has the most unique, greatest voice in music, as far as I'm concerned.  Jon Bon Jovi's vocals are alright, but Axl can scream like a banshee.  I don't know how anybody could do that without shredding their vocal cords.

Guns are the better band, I think.  I still listen to their music a lot these days, whereas I listen to Bon Jovi's albums less now than I used to.  Also, whatever you think of Axl's changing his sound, at least he's doing something different.  One of the reasons These Days is my favourite Bon Jovi album is because they took their sound in a different direction, away from the typical anthems about living your life and power ballads about these five words, and towards more personal and downtrodden songs.  Unfortunately, with their last two albums they returned to the kind of stuff they've done a lot of times before, with the occasional exception, like the Korn-like riff on "Undivided" (which Bon Jovi does a million times better than that lame band anyway).

At least Bon Jovi are still making music, though.  And a lot of it is really good - I mean, songs like "Just Older" and "Misunderstood" are awesome.  I just think they should take a break from crescendoing power ballads; these are getting more formulaic all the time.  And they treat their fans with respect.  I can't imagine Jon Bon Jovi missing a huge arena concert to watch the New York Knicks on TV.

Bon Jovi were an `80`s pop-metal band that became mainstream adult rock somewhere in the `90`s.  NO WAY can they compare to GNR artistically.

I heard about the 'Its My Life' film clip, they told there fans to rock up for the video but only got like, under a thousand instead of the expected 5000 or whatever.

So what are you saying?  Axl's band went on an arena tour in 2002 and most venues were filled nowhere near to full capacity.

PUTTIN' WORDS IN MY MOUTH A LITTLE ARNT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you bloody idiot!!!
i was just tellin' ya's somethin' i heard about, didnt mention anything you just drilled me for!!!!

Yeah, it's a Bon Jovi vs. Guns N' Roses thread, Einstein.  I was connecting what you said to the topic.  You can't handle it?  Then don't bother posting.  I don't see why you need to get all uptight over nothing.   Try taking fewer drugs.

bon jovi havent sold out!!!!! theyve been doin the same thing since the start of the band, now had they made a grunge record or something that wouldve been sellin out, in your definition Axl doing Oh My God and Silkworms is selling out cause that was the popular music at the time and he tried it.

bon jovi survived being themselves, i mean think about it, how many bands from the 80's are thriving today?  bon jovi,U2,Metallica and Red hot chili peppers who really didnt hit big till the 90's so they dont even really count.

i know bon jovi probably arent better than GNR but i hate how underrated bon jovi are, i want them to be surefire hall of famers, i want them thought of in the same light as the all time classic bands cause i view them that way.

bon jovi do have songs that are deep, they release some commercial radio friendly songs but the album tracks are deep and meaningful.  Richie sambora will always be one of the most underrated guitarists and not too many can touch David Bryan on the keyboards.

i just want some more respect for bon jovi.

ah for fucks sake dude, it was just a fucking question wasnt it, next time i'll be more accurate  smart arse!!!!

Okay, D, let's divide this debate systematically into smaller parts.

First, the players.

The Frontmen
Axl Rose vs. Jon Bon Jovi. ?Well, I think Axl wins this issue, because he has greater range and a more unique voice. ?Also, it's gotta be hell making your voice squawk like that. ?But Jon is a great singer-songwriter, and I like the Springsteen-esque vibe he brings to recent Bon Jovi records. ?Both of them are equally charismatic on stage, though. ?Axl does his running and jumping thing and visual panache, while Jon is the ultimate stadium rock god. ?It's a tough choice, but I'll have to give this one to Axl, if just barely.
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Lead Guitarists
In terms of lead guitar, Slash and Richie Sambora are roughly equal in technical terms. ?Richie tends to have a habit more and more of underplaying, though. ?On the older Bon Jovi records, he can shred with the best of them, but I guess they figure that kind of thing is out of style now. ?I'm gonna have to with Slash, though. ?He has supplied some of the greatest riffs and solos in hard rock history, while Bon Jovi has always been more about songwriting than meat-and-potatoes hard rock riffing.
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Rhythm Guitarists
Richie again, this time pitted against Izzy Stradlin. ?Richie wins this one, as far as I'm concerned. ?I mean, I absolutely love Izzy, both in Guns and on his solo records ("Ride On" is awesome). ?But Richie's rhythm playing has always been more nuanced and interesting to me, while Izzy has always been more in the background, serving as a foil to Slash. ?This is where Bon Jovi's "strum songs" like "Someday I'll Be Saturday Night" and "Misunderstood" help them beat the competition.
ADVANTAGE: Bon Jovi

The Keyboardists
David Bryan goes against Dizzy Reed. ?Dizzy's contributions to Guns add a melodic flavour to tracks like "Breakdown", and the industrial stuff on newer Guns tracks is interesting enough. ?But David Bryan is a far more indispensable member of Bon Jovi. ?His piano playing is what drives some of their best ballads, like "Bed Of Roses", and it supplies them with great 50s-flavoured rock 'n' roll overtones on rockers like "I'll Sleep When I'm Dead". ?Also you have the 80s-synth pop effect on Slippery When Wet, that great organ solo that begins "Let It Rock", and the mature, subtle playing on These Days. ?One of the best keyboard players in rock, David wins this one hands down.
ADVANTAGE: Bon Jovi

The Drummers
Ooh...tough one here. ?Tico's drumming has always put the power in the band's stadium shouters, like "Lay Your Hands On Me" and "Born To Be My Baby". ?But Steven Adler's drumming on Appetite is super-raw and just slams of hard rock might. ?Matt Sorum I don't care too much about; I've always preferred Steven. ?Tico's drumming is more akin to Matt's, but I've always liked Steven's drumming more for its raw effect; just listen to "Nightrain". ?Man...tough choice. ?I guess I'll go with Steven. ?He's more raw and has the crazy drummer effect going for him.
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

Now for the music...

The Rockers
Well, I think that in terms of no-holds barred rock 'n' roll ability, you have to go with Guns N' Roses. ?That's why everybody loves Appetite - because it's full of the most amazing rockers anybody had heard in a long time. ?The original GN'R were scuzzy dirtbags who lived the hard life while doing lots of drugs and banging lots of groupies, and this living of the hard rock lifestyle all help inform their straight-ahead rockers with a kind of primal fury. ?Bon Jovi's rockers are great, but tend to be slightly more slick and pedestrian. ?Also, they have a tendency of repeating themselves (is there really any difference between "It's My Life" and "Everyday"?)
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Ballads
Gotta go with Guns again. ?Bon Jovi ballads used to be my bread and butter, but by the last couple of albums, they had worn the formula on me one too many times. ?Crescendoing Bon Jovi power ballads now reek to me of being way too formulaic. ?GN'R, on the other hand, have always been a dab hand at ballads, and they each have their own unique spin. ?SCOM is totally different from "Patience", "November Rain" uses an orchestra to superb effect, and "Estranged" is epic angst at its finest. ?And if you include more recent Axl Rose songs, they're still mining new territory: "Madagscar" uses atmospheric keyboards and even samples of Martin Luther King.
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Anthemic Stadium Rock Quotient
Obviously Bon Jovi comes out as the winners in this category. ?They are the definition of stadium rock; it seems like almost every Bon Jovi song makes me want to pump my fist in the air at some point. ?Guns could make great anthemic choruses ("Welcome to the Jungle", "Nightrain", etc.). ?But Bon Jovi effortlessly made every song feel like an anthem: "Blood On Blood", "Livin' On A Prayer", "Undivided"...the list goes on.
ADVANTAGE: Bon Jovi

The Lyrics
Whoa, man, this is tough. ?I guess it's purely a matter of personal preference. ?I love the lyrics of both bands; they're two of my favourite bands lyrically. ?I suppose I'll go with Guns, just because Jon has a tendency of repeating himself in his lyrics and mining cliches (it seems like he's sung the phrase "these five words" in at least half a dozen songs).
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Look
Gotta go with Guns N' Roses. ?Axl made anything look cool, Slash had the top hats, they liked to wear leather pants and scarves and I personally loved the whole 80s' Los Angeles trash-glam-punk look. ?Bon Jovi sometimes wore similar stuff, like leather pants, but then they also had some pretty awful mullets back in the day (ahem...Tico). ?All the members of both bands still look great today...except for Axl. ?Still, I'm gonna have to take down Bon Jovi for those mullets.
ADVANTAGE: Guns N' Roses

The Staying Power
Now this is an interesting question. ?Who has had greater staying power, Guns N' Roses or Bon Jovi? ?Well, I guess the obvious answer would be Bon Jovi, seeing as they're still around. ?But then again, to tell you the truth, I tend to hear GN'R's music more on the radio, and among my friends (we're all 18 or 19), despite the fact that the original group hasn't been together for more than 10 years and Bon Jovi's music is supposedly more "commercial". ?Maybe Gn'R would still be on top of the world if they had stuck together; they certainly look as though they would have been able, like Bon Jovi, to make the transition to the 90s, seeing as neither band was as explicitly glam as acts like Poison and both were far more talented.
I guess I'll have to hand out this honour to Bon Jovi, who are still filling stadiums. ?But also because they've been producing great albums for 20 years, while GN'R managed to put out a few incredible records in 5 years.
ADVANTAGE: Bon Jovi


Well, if you tally the results, it looks like the winner is...

 :smoking: ? GUNS N' ROSES ? ?:smoking:

Bon Jovi's songwriting has a tendency to be formulaic at times, and also Guns records were just so undeniably good, with great riffs and songwriting. ?But as D says, you don't have to like one or the other. ?Both of them are great bands, just in different ways. ?I love Bon Jovi, and I love Guns N' Roses. ?Bon Jovi's still around, so I'm going to keep enjoying new records from them for a long time coming. ?This new box set looks to be as good as Bruce Springsteen's box set. ?Axl can keep doing whatever it is he's doing, and the original Guns records will remain the highlight of my CD collection.

Hehe....cool.  : ok:

very good matt but i disagree in two areas

the look

jon has gotten more cool and better looking as he has gotten older whereas axl with the braids and baggy clothes, plastic surgery etc definitely looks worse, no one had cooler hair than jon bon jovi in the 80's and in the 90's and now he is still considered to be one of the hottest front men of all time, just look at vh1's list plus he was people magazines most sexy rocker in 2000.  so durin the illusion period it was close but as a whole i think jon wins out.

also if there were a category for harmonizing and backup vocals it would definitely go to bon jovi, richie sambora has a lead singers voice with fantastic range and david bryan does great harmonies.


ballads id have to give the edge to bon jovi simply cause im not sure u can call estranged a ballad and u take away estranged and bon jovi simply have more ballads and i think they are better as a whole.

Well, while I still think Guns looked way cooler in the 80s - they had that look about them that just made you go, "now THAT is a fucking rock band" - I'll have to agree with you on which frontman looks better now.


"Estranged" is definitely a ballad.  It's got the piano, the reflective lyrics, it's not too fast, and it's got a very fragile vocal performance by Axl.  Sure, it's not a regular ballad, but that's why I like it.  Bon Jovi may have more "ballad" ballads, but GN'R have better ones.  If you're looking for a stereotypical power ballad, then "Don't Cry" is your animal, and it's far better than "Always" or "Thank You For Loving Me".  In my opinion, Bon Jovi's crescendoing power ballads have gone downhill since the Keep The Faith era.

Personally, I prefer the non-formulaic Bon Jovi love songs.  "In These Arms", "(It's Hard) Letting You Go", "Captain Crash and the Beauty Queen From Mars".  They're all wildly different, but that's the whole point.  If you've heard one Bon Jovi power ballad, you've heard them all.  These songs have more variety.

I think that Bon Jovi should experiment more with thier studio albums, actually (NOT re-hashing old ones, because then they go too far).  I always loved the 1992 dustbowl elegy "Dry County"...I thought they should try doing another epic rock song like that.  These Days is my favourite Bon Jovi record because they stepped away from their traditional stadium-rock-mixed-with-power-ballads and tried something a little more subdued, mature, reflective.  Actually, I find that this time of year right now, in the autumn, I always listen to that album a lot for some reason.

bon jovi is a great band. they make great pop music, and they put on great live shows.

but they do NOT deserve more respect.

they are a commercial pop band that appeals to women (who are a very loyal fan base). they nailed a HUGE market and have milked it for years. good looking rock band, clean cut, great voice, simple lyrics about love. women love that shit. and they never tire of it.

they have not evolved or tried anything new.

they have never written one song that i would consider classic.

they have not influenced many bands (except for maybe britney fox, winger, etc.)

if someone asked me to educate them about all types of great music, i wouldn't even think to play them bon jovi.....but it would be irresponsible not to play them AFD.   

Bon Jovi does not deserve respect or accolades for anything except starting the hair band craze.  With this, we were treated to such GREAT bands (dripping with sarcasm, if anyone didn't 'hear' it) as Poison, Winger, Britny Fox, Trixter, Warrent and Slaughter.

Oh joy!

Yes, thank you, thank you Bon Jovi!  Thank you, I worship you now.   ::)  (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/wuerg/vomit-smiley-020.gif)

Other than that, they are tepid pop metal at best. 


U2 were around WAYYYY before the 90s, and were submitting hits too.  Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Year's Day are two of their VERY BEST, and out in the 80s.  They weren't some opening act in the 80s.

So Bon Jovi started the hair band craze?  What about Motley Crue?  Ratt?  Twisted Sister?  All those bands were more glam than Bon Jovi and had bigger hair.  You could even go all the way back and say that Aerosmith and KISS started hair metal - after all, they had all the basic elements (except for Aqua Net).  Besides, there's nothing wrong with hair bands.  They're fun to listen to and they've got musical chops to spare.

I think Mattman got it spot on in his summary. Especially the mention of the ballads on Crush & Bounce.

GNR and BJ, like D, are my two fave bands. They are totally different bands tho and am not sure if you can argue if two different types of bands can be better than the other.

Mattman got it pretty much right - although I have to say Izzy is the best Rhthym player since Keith so I disagree there

I like Bon Jovi, but to me they're not better than GN'R. ?Guns and Roses brings an element of reality and truth. Their songs aren't just for singing along to, they're there to confront whatever the subject may be. ?GN'R lyrics and music are more empathetic to everyday life.

i dont agree with what many of u say, i can relate to some GNR songs but honestly i relate more to bon jovi songs as a whole.

if u judge bon jovi by the hits sure they are poppy and not very deep but that doesnt mean they dont have songs like those.

each band hits emotions in a different way, for instance bon jovi dont have the desperation as heard in songs such as right next door to hell, coma,locomotive and estranged but bon jovi songs are the anti gnr song i guess

bon jovi songs make u feel good, GNR help u deal with emotions in a comforting way like u arent alone and u feel someone understands what u are goin through, bon jovi songs fire u up and may not take your problems away or soothe them on the same level as GNR but they give u hope, "someday ill be saturday night" "its hard letting u go" "lie to me" "my guitar lies bleeding in my arms" "i believe" "bounce"   they all really pick u up when u feel like shit

dont cry doesnt compare to bon jovi's best ballads, i totally disagree with that, give me bed of roses, always, ill be there for you , livin in sin, open all night, all about lovin u, silent night,

hell never say goodbye alone destroys dont cry

if u judge bon jovi on wanted dead or alive, you give love a bad name, bad medicine, lay your hands on me etc etc, yeah they seem poppy and not very deep but the hits are a very poor representitive of what bon jovi are.

bon jovi also have the musicianship to take a poppy song and make a very beautiful ballad out of it *its my life* *runaway* *id die for you*  and they took a chance with the "this left feels right" album and it kicks ass.

in my mind,eyes,heart and soul bon jovi are equally as good as GNR, they resonate in me just the same, just as strong just in a different way but i enjoy them equally as much somedays i like one band more than the other and right now with the release of the boxset id have to put bon jovi at number 1 on my list.  bon jovi like GNR are the only two bands that i have loved every single track ever written and recorded both bands are the soundtrack to my life but like i said in different ways

bon jovi are like my half glass full side GNR are my glass half empty side

D, that right there says a lot about you. But you probably don't want to hear what that is..

no u misunderstand, ive never been drunk or high so alot of GNR songs i cant relate to, ive never danced with mr brownstone, ive never been on the nightrain doesnt mean i dont enjoy listening to those songs but i relate more to everday and its my life cause thats where i am right now, tryin to live my life and not give in to what society says i should be doing and goin for my dreams and stuff.

2 years ago i related more to GNR but right now in this moment in my life i relate more to bon jovi songs because im tryin to make it somewhere with? my life and their songs champion doin that.

i could relate to Coma last year but im much to happy in my life right now to relate to it, i usually pull out my gnr when my life sucks,but i pull out my bon jovi when my life is good.

thats the difference right there.

Enlighten us..

Don't get on the horse unless you intend to ride it :)

Considering Bon Jovi's songs are shallow whereas GNR's are (often) quite the opposite, I'd say a person's preference tells something about him/her. But D already explained himself anyway.

Fucking Excellent!


Another excellent comment !  Except I wouldn't call the jove "great" in my book. I did the same thing back then ;)

jovi were a hair brush as GNR were a head crush.   < now that is pure cheese, but true yo

-BP

i would bet most people who have posted negatively about bon jovi probably couldnt name 10 songs outside of the hits, so that makes the arguments not valid cause u cant judge a band by their hits alone and on the records they have deep songs, songs that are touching and great.

the hits are what u have to do to make the introspective deep songs.

im sure Chinese Democracy will have some radio friendly not so relatable songs on it. its not like every GNR song is a masterpiece thats deep and touching.

ok -? I have hard enuff time naming 10 songs of my most fave/influential bands ever....? it's a head glitch I believe? ;D , so I can't play with ya there.

How about live shows?? Who is better live in our new century? huh huh

 ;D

 :no: first he names the whole band after Himself

& now he is Elvis??


That reminds me....  on Holiday's, I blast Elvis!!!!! wooo hooo

-B fnk' P

well if you are into praising like gospel....  I can see where you get deep lately....   ;D   Bruce has been doing the same thing at his concerts.  & now you have Sambora trying to be like a Stevie Ray (all of a sudden)


ok look... i'm bored  & having fun, but I'm from New Jersey & he aint so welcomed as a hardrock genius by no means or even a music greatness by no means whatsoever.  Bruce (The Boss), not that i'm a big fan, is waaaaaaaaay more respected around here.   Jovi is fluff & Bruce is street buff 

-BP

Guns N' Roses win by a long shot!!!!!! I absolutely can't stand Bon Jovi's music, it sucks so much! lol

I think Bon Jovi is a poser,  is a band for fake people , and i have listened to almost all his music, but i dislike his music, his playing, his voice.
I cant understand why people got interested in a band that has nothing new to offer , i mean there are a lot of things out there to talk about.
Honestly ........."Bon Jovi Can suck My Dick"!  :yes:

Bon Jovi kicks ass..GNR is still better,but you cant knock Bon Jovi

Wanted Dead Or Alive is one of the best songs of all time
There new stuff (Everyday,It's My Life,Just Older) is amazing
Slippery When Wet is jsut as good as AFD
Richie Sambora has awsome backing vocals
..
Im not sayingf there better im jsut saying dont knock Bon Jovi They've done alot for the music business

1. Dead or Alive is a good song - It's catchy but not realistic to bon bon for he aint' no cowboy = he's an actor from NJ

2. There new stuff blows...... but it's nice to let Sambora show off some new skills

3. As good as Appetite ??? This is the worst comment yet...? & I need a puke bowl right about now

4. Done a lot for the music business?? what exactly? help bigwig's sell pop records maybe. In no way shape of form did bon bon put a revolutionary dent to the music bizzz as GNR did.?

holy man ----? somebody is a product of target marketing & I can tell you are not a guitarist in all due respect.

-BP

sayin he is a cowboy is a simile, relating life on the road to that of a cowboy, lord how do u people listen to GNR if u cant pick out metaphors and similies!

trust me when I say, I WAS using SARCASM.?

:D i'm having forum withdraw is all ....? ?I like making fun of bon bon .....? its too easy. I've been doing so since the late 80's.? ?but yes, comparing his music to Appetite is silly to me.

im not comparing it to appetite, i mean GNR and Bon jovi are two entirely different styles of music which makes it impossible to compare, the point of this thread was basically to try and get a little more respect for bon jovi.

im tired of people lumping them with other bands when i think bon jovi should be in the discussion when it comes to classic great bands, they are written off too much for whatever various reasons and i dont like that.

Bon Jovi is certainly NOT a classic great band.  They've done nothing really deserving of respect, they are a mainstream pop band.  Britney Spears is also mainstream pop.  Milli Vanilli was also once mainstream pop.  Certainly they all played a different type of music, but none can be considered in the same league as Guns N' Roses.

Bon Jovi is "written off" for good reason.  Syrupy sweet, politically correct bubblegum music.  If you like them, that's cool... but, don't expect others to follow you because you feel they deserve respect and shouldn't be so easily dismissed. They are entertainers that get paid well for what they do.  That is apparently enough for them, because if they wanted the kind of respect you seek for them, they'd actually write music and not candy shop fodder. 

Well the basic point is GNR is waaaaaaaaay Better than Bon "dreadful, crapy, stinky, anoying" Jovi, for the ovius reason that all people here have said before, not the looks, not the ballads, but  GNR is a band with less albums than jovi and always be in music, thats it!  :peace:

u are gonna put a no talent dancer/lip syncher and a lip synchin group in the same sentence as bon jovi?

see thats my point, bon jovi, jon and richie sambora are 2 of the best songwriters ever, they write their songs, they play live, they write what they know.

its not bubblegum pop music, i dont understand where people get this bullshit from, because a few of their hits were tongue in cheek fun type rock music doesnt mean their entire catalog is bubblegum poppy shit.

thats exactly what i am defending them against.  they took a chance with "this left feels right" a damn good spin on their greatest hits but what do u want them to do? did u want them to be poser sellouts and make a grunge record in the early 90's? did u want them to make an electronica record? a heavy metal record?   

in music u are in a no win situation, if u stick with your roots u are not takin chances but if u take chances *metallica,axl* u are selling out, so what is a musician to do? u are fucked either way.

Jon and bon jovi's philosophy is write what u know, be who u are and dont try to be anything u arent. thats their music, thats what they live so i applaud them for being real musicians and real people instead of posin for the next big trend.

and since im pissed at axl today ill give u another rant

when bon jovi were against the odds, they pulled their shit together, took grunge on and came out alive and thriving, Axl has yet to release an album since grunge destroyed metal and rock, so faced with uphill odds, bon jovi kicked ass and remained a multiplatinum international sensation whereas Axl is so scared of failing he cant release an album.

bon jovi survived grunge, GNR have yet to prove they have.

I think they key to all this is relevance. Numbers don't matter, because if we are goin' to use numbers, Michael Jakson, Britney Spears and N'Sync shit all over everybody anyways.

Gn'R didn't survive the grunge era, they ushered in the grunge era by killing the era Bon Jovi had come from. Regardless if some are willing to clump them in that same generation or era, they obviously came to prominence when the landscape of music was changing. Infact they were a reason the lanscape changed in the first place.

When Appetite For Destruction hit the music scene, it did a few things. It destroyed neo classical guitar, guys like Yngwie were no longer relevant and secondly, it crused all those irrelevant hair metal bands. But most importantly, AFD was the bridge between metal bands of the 70's and 80's (Zeppelin, Sabbath, Metallica) and the grunge bands of the 90's (Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam)

People may say grunge killed hair metal, but Guns N' Roses made it irrelevant the moment AFD hit the scene. It is the one link when music historians and scholars look at the musical landscape of the 80's and 90's. When they ask themeselves, how could there be such a large and utter gap between the music of the 80's and 90's. AFD bridged the gap, gave those grunge bands not necessarily inspiration, but a means of passage.

Bands like Alice in Chains and Mother Lovebone were already planted in metal and hard rock, but AFD gave them that blend between punk, hard rock and metal that no one had ever seen before.

Gn'R will always be more relevant than Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi can sell 1,000,000,000 more records than Gn'R. But they will never be as important.

great post!

see thats the stuff i like, if GNR are better give me facts, dont insult bon jovi, now see that was a well thought out intelligent post that i agree with 100 percent, u cant say bon jovi arent deep cause i think theyare very very fuckin deep, but just to reitterate, GNR nor Nirvana killed bon jovi!!!!!!! and why? cause bon jovi are a rock band not a hair band!

Yes excellent post!? & thank you for using Alice in Chains in your post as a? great band.? : ok:

anyway... I still stand by my comments because I thought it was just known that bon bon had no significance.

BTW I thought my number 4 was pretty factual

"4. Done a lot for the music business?? what exactly? help bigwig's sell pop records maybe. In no way shape of form did bon bon put a revolutionary dent to the music bizzz as GNR did."

I sum up a lot for I don't have time to write books anymore? :) but isnt this the same thing as we are argeeing with above??

& ps.... I'm not lying when I say that bon bon is not respected as a "real" musician that much in his own state.?

I mean, I do have reasons for my statements..........? ?& Furious Styles up there pretty much nailed half of em.

 :peace:


ps.? you said you said Slippery when Wet is better than Appetite!? Slippery When Wet? didn't cross no bridges & if anything Appettite changed Bon Jovi's persona cuz GNR got away with there 'truer' image & changed marketing for everybody then!! & I'll bet my ass on that!! - SWW >>>  it was just another record.?
Even Weiland recently admitted Appetite was like a bible when he was in the business. (don't kill me if I quoted weiland wrong)......? ?but it was to that respect.


yea I know my grammer sucks... i'm busy eheh

D, the only thing Bon Jovi is better than GNR at is releasing albums.

Jon is an VERY VERY average singer and songwriter
Richie is a mediocre/good guitarist
The Bassist (Whose name escapes me) I don't care about
Tico, well, He's just Tico, which equals suck.

Sorry, D. I think you are absolutely wrong.

We can stay friends though.

i didnt say it was as significant as appetite but it was as popular, just with a different crowd.


bon jovi may not have inspired many bands what good bands have their been since the late 80's? what great band has GNR inspired thats out now? none for either cause their arent any great bands

bon jovi broke open lots of market places and were one of the headliners of the moscow music festival which were the first western bands sanctioned to play there.

bon jovi inspire their fan base just as much as GNR inspire theres and to simply dismiss bon jovi as powder puff rock i think isnt right.

i am here with this thread because people dont respect bon jovi, people dont give them any credit and that is what im championing here, cause they are way above the other bands in the 80's and just barely underneath GNR and the other "classic" bands that are considered from the era.

bon jovi,metallicaand RHCP are the only bands that formed in the 80's that are still selling out stadiums and going platinum

so that in my opinion says something about bon jovi

if they were as bad as people claim they wouldve died with the poison's,warrants,slaughters etc etc etc

Well, that's because they changed their music from Anthemic hair metal to Adult Contemporary/Generic Anthemic Pop-Rock

& his acting carreer on Alley McBeilster was a huge inspiration to me!! Die hard rocker indeed. believe it or not, he is like that that in real life to an extent... & that was my point about "he aint no cowboy" = poser.

not just that......? ?I've been watching his carreer all my life.? sorry... but he is pure cheese. They were hanging on a thing string at many points, & then there was that acoustic fluff performance that got good feedback.... & landed them some more marketing. Wasn't that a point where they decided to make more music as a 'team' ... Richie & jon?

& Yes....? ?GNR played a role in how BJ was to market himself for sure....? ?if you werent there (which i can tell you wern't D in all due respect), then you didn't get the inside scoop & vibe that no magazine, fanzine, or internet site will give you. Correct me otherwise for I'm going on a strong gut feeling here

All fun here.... but please.? -BP

i think bon jovi played a role in GNR also, remember axl talkin about how bon jovi followed up slippery when wet in a rolling stone article?



He was a good actor, one of the few who could pull it off that tries and had a promising career but turned his back on it to do music, i still dont understand how he is cheese. he never claimed to be a cowboy
bon jovi are from the storyteller type songwriting and they have related the life of a rockstar as a modern day cowboy, come into a town, drink the booze,party with the girls get the money and head to another town. 

good actor huh....? ? ? He has done a great job for all actors & is? .... uhhh I quitt

If you want to see a band that survived all era's.... check out bands like the current The Alman Brothers = Warren Haynes & the boy genius Derek Trucks & bassist Otiel has more musicical creativitiy & knowhow in one pinky than all of BJ's politically correct sellout crew. check out Rush if you want storylines & Floyd.? I think your standards for break through era bands are material.? is BJ a hairband that was stepped on by GNR? yea. then they changed there image a bit & put out fun songs still. They are sort of big now because of what Fiona said:

"they changed their music from Anthemic hair metal to Adult Contemporary/Generic Anthemic Pop-Rock" = easy marketing deals & airplay & tv play = doesn't make them great. just media friendly!

GNR's music is timeless while they are in hidding....? When BJ goes into hiding, they will be forgotten? sorry - its happened before

I don't completelty understand how you don't see this. Now to stay on topic ........? Axl is going completly on a limb trying to do something different & if he didn't have a finck, brain, in his band, then I wouldn't give crap.
-------

On another note: i checked out your site --- please don't tell me you play guitar because i'll be totally confused? ;)
what are you doing in your songs?? :)

D, I really think bon "crapy" Jovi is in no league than guns, I mean even if Jon gets a new CD this year people will still remmeber AFD than SWW, is just a fact, is not that I like more Guns than Jovi is just a fact, you can defend all you want, I know you like the band, but guns is better with all the less records than jovi, just try to accept that as we try to accept your opinions.

i have accepted that, im not sayin bon jovi are better, i told u all, i was dared to make arguments for bon jovi and u can argue anything if u really try, so i accepted the challenge and like defending a murder suspect who has no chance i tried my best.


all im wanting is more respect for bon jovi and the crazy "they are disposable poppy, nothing musicans" eliminated from ever being said again.

Bon Jovi = disposable poppy, nothing musicians.   :hihi:

Bonjovi = Pop Metal, GnR = RnFR
So why is this discussion relevant?

 ;D I think this discussion is over.

we talked private & I didn't know D was saying many of the things for sake of 'arguements & dares'

D, I otttaa --  TO THE MOON!!!  i twazzz having fun. if I was at my board, I wouldnt have got into it as much.

Rock On my Brother <<<  :peace: -BP